PDA

View Full Version : Recap of pitchers so far by Cooper


caulfield12
02-25-2007, 10:06 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/271918,CST-SPT-soxnt25.article

Looks like Russell is making a name for himself due to his size....maybe he will figure into the bullpen competition as a long-shot, but most likely targeted for AA.

Ideally, they would have Gio, Danks, Haeger, Phillips and Broaday as their starting rotation in AAA. That's the best rotation in all of baseball for a AAA team.

McCullogh, Russell and Harrell are interesting as well.

IndianWhiteSox
02-25-2007, 10:25 AM
If that's the case, then the Sox will have a farm system for the next five years.
:cool:

Jurr
02-25-2007, 10:57 AM
If Gio Gonzalez has a good Cactus league, I could see him starting in the fifth spot. Having another lefty going out there for the Sox would be a great asset.

soxtalker
02-25-2007, 11:03 AM
If that's the case, then the Sox will have a farm system for the next five years.
:cool:

AAA and AA may look good, but the lower minors don't.

IndianWhiteSox
02-25-2007, 11:15 AM
AAA and AA may look good, but the lower minors don't.

But eventually with the overload of pitchers in AA and AAA, the lower minors would have to get better over a period of 2-3 years right?

ondafarm
02-25-2007, 11:29 AM
AAA and AA may look good, but the lower minors don't.


Man, if I worried about the low minors not looking good that'd be so far down the list of worries. I'm expecting the Sox will start getting a sandwich pick or two every year for a few which should help with the lower minors. Right now a great AAA rotation and a pretty fair AA rotation sounds pretty doggone good to me.

soxtalker
02-25-2007, 11:34 AM
But eventually with the overload of pitchers in AA and AAA, the lower minors would have to get better over a period of 2-3 years right?

I suppose that might be true if the problem was that we were pushing (the few good) players up through the system too fast. Not sure if that's true. There was some discussion a few weeks ago (on WSI, but motivated by a statement by KW, I believe) that the evaluation of draft talent hasn't been terribly good.

Now, I'm not terribly pessimistic about the lower minor leagues. Since KW has turned his attention to the high minors in recent trades, there appears to be good reason for optimism at AAA and AA. He can certainly do the same in the lower minors.

IndianWhiteSox
02-25-2007, 12:00 PM
I suppose that might be true if the problem was that we were pushing (the few good) players up through the system too fast. Not sure if that's true. There was some discussion a few weeks ago (on WSI, but motivated by a statement by KW, I believe) that the evaluation of draft talent hasn't been terribly good.

Now, I'm not terribly pessimistic about the lower minor leagues. Since KW has turned his attention to the high minors in recent trades, there appears to be good reason for optimism at AAA and AA. He can certainly do the same in the lower minors.

What do you want KW to do? Trade Pablo or Mack for a A pitcher?
:tongue:

California Sox
02-25-2007, 12:21 PM
I was happy to see Russell get some nice pub. To me, he's sort of like Masset -- a guy with great physical tools who's had some command issues, but keeps getting better. He might sneak in a steal a spot. At the very least, he's great insurance in case of an injury or an ineffective righthander in the pen.

As far as the overall shape of the system is concerned: It simply comes down to drafting a few more guys with upside. Except for Broadway the first few rounds of 2005 are shaping up as a disaster. It seemed that way the day of the draft. No second rounder then Brooks, Getz, and Rote. Thank goodness a few lower round surprises have emerged like Carter, Cunningham, and Rice. Plus, I still have hope for Richard and to some extent Chirino. It's a little early to judge 2006, but so far there seem to be no real impact players. So we have got to do better this year in spite of the fact that the 1st round supplemental is so long our second pick will be like a fourth-rounder.

Daver
02-25-2007, 12:31 PM
So we have got to do better this year in spite of the fact that the 1st round supplemental is so long our second pick will be like a fourth-rounder.

You just nailed the biggest reason for the state of the lower minors, combine average scouting with no top ten draft picks for many years, and you get what the Sox have now.

soxtalker
02-25-2007, 12:43 PM
What do you want KW to do? Trade Pablo or Mack for a A pitcher?
:tongue:


Well, actually, I wouldn't mind it if Kenny started adding some lower-level minor leaguers in future deals -- essentially something to compensate for the Sox being so far down in the draft order. Of course, it requires some good scouting of those players, and I'm not sure if the Sox could accommodate the increased scouting load. (I also assume that the players ML performance is more difficult to predict the farther they are from the big leagues.)

caulfield12
02-25-2007, 12:47 PM
Po-Yu Lin, the Taiwanese pitcher we signed for $300,000. That's a step in the right direction, along with taking risks with 10 Anderson Gomes to end up with one Magglio or C-Lee.

We've really had our share of disappointments recently....with Ring, Francisco Hernandez, Jason Stumm, Malone, Brian West, Kris Honel, Rob Valido, Borchard, Wyatt Allen, Angel Hernandez. Maybe it's about time things started turning around.

As noted, Clayton Richard has some ability. Oneli Perez has impressed quite a few. I think we'll be okay.

We also are adding Rasner and Lujan from the Rangers to our system, let's not forget that, along with Carlos Vasquez from the Cubs.

caulfield12
02-25-2007, 12:49 PM
Well, actually, I wouldn't mind it if Kenny started adding some lower-level minor leaguers in future deals -- essentially something to compensate for the Sox being so far down in the draft order. Of course, it requires some good scouting of those players, and I'm not sure if the Sox could accommodate the increased scouting load. (I also assume that the players ML performance is more difficult to predict the farther they are from the big leagues.)


That's what the Lujan and Rasner deals with the Rangers were about.

The Korean pitcher we just signed. Anderson Gomes. Trying to add some talent to the lower levels. Carter and Cunningham look like they could be good (albeit raw), maybe even Brandon Allen.

sox1970
02-25-2007, 12:50 PM
If Gio Gonzalez has a good Cactus league, I could see him starting in the fifth spot. Having another lefty going out there for the Sox would be a great asset.

I could see this coming. Gio has incredible stuff...a 12 to 6 curveball...a decent fastball. Ozzie is falling in love with the guy like he did with Boone Logan last year.

I'm sure Gio will have the opportunity to be a fine major league pitcher someday, but he's not ready. There is no reason to rush him. He's only 21, and his numbers haven't even been exceptional at the minor league level. He and Danks should go to Charlotte and get their innings in--no need to rush them this season. Maybe late in the season if the Sox are out of it.

Rounding_Third
02-25-2007, 01:08 PM
Maybe late in the season if the Sox are out of it.

You mean in November?

California Sox
02-25-2007, 01:10 PM
You just nailed the biggest reason for the state of the lower minors, combine average scouting with no top ten draft picks for many years, and you get what the Sox have now.

Yes, and of the two ways to alleviate the problem better scouting or lose a 100 games, I prefer the former.

ondafarm
02-25-2007, 01:20 PM
I could see this coming. Gio has incredible stuff...a 12 to 6 curveball...a decent fastball. Ozzie is falling in love with the guy like he did with Boone Logan last year.

I'm sure Gio will the opportunity to be a fine major league pitcher someday, but he's not ready. There is no reason to rush him. He's only 21, and his numbers haven't even been exceptional at the minor league level. He and Danks should go to Charlotte and get their innings in--no need to rush them this season. Maybe late in the season if the Sox are out of it.

Most organizations try to get their kids, as in the SP ones from high school at least 500 innings in the minors before even thinking they might appear at the major league level.

sox1970
02-25-2007, 01:30 PM
Most organizations try to get their kids, as in the SP ones from high school at least 500 innings in the minors before even thinking they might appear at the major league level.

Right. And Danks is at 426 innings with a 4.20 ERA. Gio has 342 minor league innings, and he went 7-12 with 4.66 ERA last year, so let's not get carried away.

KRS1
02-25-2007, 01:36 PM
Ideally, they would have Gio, Danks, Haeger, Phillips and Broaday as their starting rotation in AAA. That's the best rotation in all of baseball for a AAA team.

McCullogh, Russell and Harrell are interesting as well.




When talking about B-ham, don't forget the vastly underrated, never talked about, and always getting it done, Jack Egbert. Then there's Whisler, who took a huge leap forward last year, and still gets zero respect from anyone. Both of those guys are way under the radar, and I expect them to have big seasons playing with the constant chip on the shoulder. Then there's the enigma in Liotta, will he push back in Tuscon and work himself back into B-ham, or will he continue to decline?

caulfield12
02-25-2007, 03:30 PM
Right now, I'm guessing something like this.

Russell, Harrell and McCullogh in no particular order...unless something shocking happens like anyone from this group making the big league club.

Then I'm guessing KW will want to stick Lujan (Rangers) in there instead of having him repeat High A.

Which leaves Liotta, Malone, Egbert, Whisler, R. Rodriguez, Sierra, Richard, and Carlos Torres to fight it out for the final spot or bullpen in BIRM.

Liotta, Malone and Sierra might all end up back in the bullpen as specialists.

Rasner (Rangers) should be at Winston-Salem, although he could theoretically go to Kannapolis.

KRS1
02-25-2007, 05:29 PM
Which leaves Liotta, Malone, Egbert, Whisler, R. Rodriguez, Sierra, Richard, and Carlos Torres to fight it out for the final spot or bullpen in BIRM.

Richard should be a lock for W-S. Sierra should be in the pen, as should Malone. We should see the three Rodriguez's pitching in W-S. Lujan could go either way, depending on what we decide to have him do, start or relieve. So it really comes down to Egbert(really deserves a rotation spot), Whisler(see: Egbert), Torres(possible pen transition), and Liotta(who knows what's going on here). Torres had some games out of the pen last year, and had the least impressive season numbers-wise out of the group, so perhaps that is his best chance at getting it done. I don't like pitchers getting used to long rest, but since there's so many people ahead of all these guys, maybe a six man rotation isn't out of the question.

caulfield12
02-25-2007, 06:11 PM
I found it interesting that Papelbon's (or a Red Sox) doctor said that they wanted him starting instead of pitching out of the pen 60 times per season.

I can't imagine Malone lasting much longer with the organization...or Reynoso. Sierra has a nice arm, we'll see how he responds with a "third" chance this year. Liotta definitely was the biggest enigma in the organization last year.

ondafarm
02-25-2007, 06:18 PM
If we are already talking about who'll be at W-S then I don't think the organization has any shortage of pitching at any but the lowest levels.

jabrch
02-25-2007, 06:41 PM
AAA and AA may look good, but the lower minors don't.

Some people always need to bitch about something.

caulfield12
02-25-2007, 07:32 PM
It's not like we are completely bereft of talent at that level.

We have Richard, Jason Rice was very impressive last year, you add in Rasner, the Tres Rodriguezes, Richard Brooks, Ryan Rote and Rafael Flores.

Plus I've heard good things about Maurice Gartrell and John Shelby's kid. We could use another quality 2B prospect in our system.

soxtalker
02-25-2007, 07:59 PM
It's not like we are completely bereft of talent at that level.

We have Richard, Jason Rice was very impressive last year, you add in Rasner, the Tres Rodriguezes, Richard Brooks, Ryan Rote and Rafael Flores.

Plus I've heard good things about Maurice Gartrell and John Shelby's kid. We could use another quality 2B prospect in our system.

When Kenny made those comments a couple of weeks ago about improving the production from the draft, I started wondering if the trades with the Rangers were an indication that he was starting to focus on the lower minor leagues. Those are players that we'll probably have a real tough time evaluating (before the trades), but it's probably a pretty good signal that Kenny has the scouting system digging pretty deep into other organizations.

caulfield12
02-25-2007, 09:08 PM
It might have also had something to do with the planned Garland trade as well...as they were looking at partnering with the Astros and Rangers before McCarthy's name was finally substituted for Garland's.

rdivaldi
02-26-2007, 01:54 AM
We've really had our share of disappointments recently....with Ring, Francisco Hernandez, Jason Stumm, Malone, Brian West, Kris Honel, Rob Valido, Borchard, Wyatt Allen, Angel Hernandez. Maybe it's about time things started turning around.

Whoa, some of those names are not deserving of that list. Honel and Valido are still young and talented and hopefully will be recovered from their injuries.

KRS1
02-26-2007, 02:07 AM
Whoa, some of those names are not deserving of that list. Honel and Valido are still young and talented and hopefully will be recovered from their injuries.


Completely agree. Also Caulfield, when did we start adding umpires to our list of propects. Perhaps the 'Angel' you were thinking of is Andy Gonzalez, and he held his own the past two seasons. He may not be the five-tool SS of the future some were once hyping, but he has a good shot at making it some way or another(utility man would fit if he can work on his D). Are those three dissapointing, yes, but busts, not yet.

Oh yeah, I still have some high hopes for Francisco. Ring has been very steady all the way through the minors, and worked his way into the bigs, so...

caulfield12
02-26-2007, 06:34 AM
Completely agree. Also Caulfield, when did we start adding umpires to our list of propects. Perhaps the 'Angel' you were thinking of is Andy Gonzalez, and he held his own the past two seasons. He may not be the five-tool SS of the future some were once hyping, but he has a good shot at making it some way or another(utility man would fit if he can work on his D). Are those three dissapointing, yes, but busts, not yet.

Oh yeah, I still have some high hopes for Francisco. Ring has been very steady all the way through the minors, and worked his way into the bigs, so...

Gonzalez is going to be like Morse, minus the power, especially now that he's grown an additional 2 1/2 inches. We're more likely to go with Pedro Lopez than him, but neither is more than a 5-10% possibility.