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View Full Version : Sox Have High Hopes for Vazquez


Corlose 15
02-21-2007, 03:26 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070221&content_id=1809887&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


He wasn't tall, he wasn't back and he wasn't closed," said Cooper of the delivery problems for Vazquez. "Those are absolutes as far as mechanics. Now, he's much better in those areas, and he always has had the physical stuff.
"Javy is ready, in great shape, and prepared physically and mentally. I feel as good about Javy as I ever have."

SoxxoS
02-21-2007, 03:34 PM
Excuse me ignorance...but would this be easy to correct on a random weekday during the season? Also, did this just happen after the 5th inning?

AJ Hellraiser
02-21-2007, 03:37 PM
He has always had the physical tools and the type of pitches to be great... it's always been a question of his mental state and mechanics...

Bottome Line= I'll believe it when I see it!!!:rolleyes:

California Sox
02-21-2007, 03:40 PM
I second the "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude. My knee-jerk reaction to Vazquez is so negative, though, that I'm not a fair judge.

Corlose 15
02-21-2007, 03:43 PM
I'm taking the same approach you guys are but except for those two AWFUL months he was pretty solid. The game logs aren't on chisox.com anymore but every other month his ERA was under 4 and he had some nice starts down the stretch.

jenn2080
02-21-2007, 03:49 PM
At least someone has high hopes. I will believe it when I see Vazquez throw more then a couple games past the 6th inning without a meltdown.

DeadMoney
02-21-2007, 03:57 PM
Link to game log:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5947/gamelog;_ylt=ArkA8M7h2M1Wlf9p3YwV8r6FCLcF

Javy's stats aside, he got wonderful run support from August 15 to the end of the season last year. But when looking at his earned runs allowed and K's from August and September, I'm optimistic about Cooper's effect and Javy's new changes. Remember, Javy didn't make the final tweeks until that Toronto start on August 5. Given an offseason free from bad habits and bad mechanics, I'm hopeful that Javy will be a huge asset to the Sox Central Division run in '07.

Zisk77
02-21-2007, 04:00 PM
Excuse me ignorance...but would this be easy to correct on a random weekday during the season? Also, did this just happen after the 5th inning?

As pitchers tire, they're mechanics are more likely to become poor. This can be due to fatigue or inattention to good practice techniques before and during the season (you tend do in a game what you practice when under pressure) or both. Practice doe not make perfect......practicing perfectly makes perfect.:cool:

I would say being in better physical condition and refining mechanics could be the ticket because Javy has always had # 1 starter stuff.

AuroraSoxFan
02-21-2007, 05:49 PM
It is fun watching him when he is on. He mows people down like no tomorrow. I just hope he can maintain that deeper into games. If he can his record will be better and the pen will be more rested and likely more effective down the stretch. I know a lot of us may not have too much confidence in Javy but if you ask me his level of success will be a huge factor to the 07 season.

goon
02-21-2007, 05:54 PM
I'm taking the same approach you guys are but except for those two AWFUL months he was pretty solid. The game logs aren't on chisox.com anymore but every other month his ERA was under 4 and he had some nice starts down the stretch.

stop being rational.

skottyj242
02-21-2007, 06:04 PM
Was it against Kansas City early last year when he took the no hitter late? I'm pretty sure it was an afternoon game.

goon
02-21-2007, 06:11 PM
Was it against Kansas City early last year when he took the no hitter late? I'm pretty sure it was an afternoon game.

he did it twice against KC last season, i believe.

TomBradley72
02-21-2007, 06:59 PM
Post All Star Break Javy was: 2-8, 4.58 ERA in 15 starts...I'll believe it when I see it.

chisoxmike
02-21-2007, 07:24 PM
Post All Star Break Javy was: 2-8, 4.58 ERA in 15 starts...I'll believe it when I see it.

And yet somehow people only want to point the finger at Buehrle for a horrible second half.

soxfanatlanta
02-21-2007, 07:32 PM
And yet somehow people only want to point the finger at Buehrle for a horrible second half.

Just about everybody expected Buehrle to do great things in 06, for good reason. Not in anyone's worst nightmares did they see his second half performance coming. Vazquez's troubles since leaving Montreal were well documented, and people were more realistic. IIRC, "If he gets his head straight", or "If Coop fixes him" were quite common phrases one year ago.

Edit: MB's second half woes pretty much summed up our second half.

hi im skot
02-21-2007, 07:32 PM
Javy suffered from some absolutely brutal relief pitching. Sure, it was beyond frustrating watching him fall apart in the 6th inning, but I'm glad he's getting another shot.

I hope Coop is right.

ND_Sox_Fan
02-21-2007, 07:49 PM
The title of this thread could alternatively read: "Sox Fans Have High Hopes for Vazquez".

At this point, no one around here would argue that he should be removed from the rotation; therefore, we hope he wins 20+ games based on his talent and "stuff."

On the question of whether he will perform to that level ... he should expect to win every game that he takes the mound and can - it comes down to mentality, confidence and concentration. If some changes have been made to his delivery that will also help him, then all the better.

cws05champ
02-21-2007, 09:04 PM
I just don't think that Javy has mental toughness. He has all the "stuff" in the world, but gets flustered when he starts giving up hits and walks. Take a look at his #'s from last year:

ERA Catagory
0.69 Bases Empty
10.75 Runners On
17.39 RISP
16.02 RISP w/ two outs
30.38 Bases loaded

Even with those #'s, he had 4 months out of 6 with an ERA under 4. Unfortunately the other two months were 7.50, 6.82. I hope he can get it together and feel comfortable being in the same organization for two years straight.

ND_Sox_Fan
02-21-2007, 09:10 PM
ERA Catagory
0.69 Bases Empty
10.75 Runners On
17.39 RISP
16.02 RISP w/ two outs
30.38 Bases loaded

Aren't those numbers self-fulfilling? Pitchers tend to give up more runs with runners on base regardless of the pitcher.

I have never really paid much attention to this sort of break-out ... what is league average? If these are way off of that (which I assume they are somewhat higher) - then a comparison can be made.

thomas35forever
02-21-2007, 10:39 PM
Given the choice between Javy and Freddy, I would've kept Freddy. If Javy can bounce back mentally and not think about the sixth inning, things should work out for us. If not however, we could be facing a fourth-starter situation as well as a fifth-starter one.

cws05champ
02-22-2007, 08:17 AM
Aren't those numbers self-fulfilling? Pitchers tend to give up more runs with runners on base regardless of the pitcher.

I have never really paid much attention to this sort of break-out ... what is league average? If these are way off of that (which I assume they are somewhat higher) - then a comparison can be made.

You are correct, the avg is always higher for the catagories with runners on, but it is the vast difference in Javy's #'s tell the tale. just for comparison Here are Garcia's stats from last year

ERA Catagory
1.23 Bases Empty
9.67 Runners On
11.82 RISP
9.53 RISP w/ two outs
10.80 Bases loaded

As you can see the stats obviously go up for RISP, but while Javy's bases empty was 0.69 and RISP ERA was 16 & 17, Garcia's was well below Javy's. He always seemed to buckle down when he needed to. I just don't thnk Javy has the same moxie.

IndianWhiteSox
02-22-2007, 08:31 AM
Just remember that Coop needed a year to fix Contreras(August '04-August '05) before he took off. So yeah I can see where he thinks Vazquez can take off. Do I necessarily agree with him? We'll as many of the posters have said, "let's wait and see."

SBSoxFan
02-22-2007, 02:42 PM
You are correct, the avg is always higher for the catagories with runners on, but it is the vast difference in Javy's #'s tell the tale. just for comparison Here are Garcia's stats from last year

ERA Catagory
1.23 Bases Empty
9.67 Runners On
11.82 RISP
9.53 RISP w/ two outs
10.80 Bases loaded

As you can see the stats obviously go up for RISP, but while Javy's bases empty was 0.69 and RISP ERA was 16 & 17, Garcia's was well below Javy's. He always seemed to buckle down when he needed to. I just don't thnk Javy has the same moxie.

Unfortunately, he didn't appear to feel a need to buckle down against the likes of Tampa Bay and Kansas City.

HawkDJ
02-22-2007, 03:09 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Javy is poised for a great year? He had some really terrific numbers other than ERA (K/BB, K/9, BB/9) and his HR numbers came down a lot last year. Javy was flat out dominant for 5 innings per game. As well know, he had issues in that 6th inning. Many of you are attributing it to his "mental toughness". I don't know if I really buy into that. Javy had some fantastic years in Montreal, perhaps not the most pressure packed location, but I think Vazquez can handle big league situations. For the record, I know many of you don't believe in "stathead" tools, but TheHardballTimes.com lists him as one of the "unluckiest" pitchers in 2006. I really think we'll see improvement out of Javy.

Sargeant79
02-22-2007, 05:46 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Javy is poised for a great year? He had some really terrific numbers other than ERA (K/BB, K/9, BB/9) and his HR numbers came down a lot last year. Javy was flat out dominant for 5 innings per game. As well know, he had issues in that 6th inning. Many of you are attributing it to his "mental toughness". I don't know if I really buy into that. Javy had some fantastic years in Montreal, perhaps not the most pressure packed location, but I think Vazquez can handle big league situations. For the record, I know many of you don't believe in "stathead" tools, but TheHardballTimes.com lists him as one of the "unluckiest" pitchers in 2006. I really think we'll see improvement out of Javy.

I agree with you. I'm not sure that he'll become a Cy Young candidate or anything, but I think it's a good bet that he's going to have a better year than last year. This might have been pointed out already, but he was arguably the best pitcher on the staff for the first six weeks of the season last year. I was at both of the games that he took no-hitters late into the games against KC. He was flat-out dominating.

Vazquez (along with the departed Freddy Garcia) was very good down the stretch too...he just had no run support for most of September. Granted, he was awful for most of June, July, and August, but the fact that he was able to put it together at times tells me that he is capable of doing it. I believe that the things that Coop fixed could make a difference. A lot comes down to whether he can get some confidence and build on it through the season.

Hitmen77
02-22-2007, 08:19 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Javy is poised for a great year?

No, you're not the only one.

The Sox really have alot of upside potential from 3 of their pitchers (Javy, Buehrle, Contreras) over 2006. This could be a very exciting year on the South Side.

drewcifer
02-22-2007, 08:47 PM
It is fun watching him when he is on. He mows people down like no tomorrow. I just hope he can maintain that deeper into games.

Man, I so agree with this. He had a game last year (I think in Toronto) where he showed this.... I want more of that.