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OfficerKarkovice
03-15-2002, 02:16 PM
From the Daily Herald:

If the season started today, Rauch would probably be the White Sox' No. 3 starter.

RichH55
03-15-2002, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
From the Daily Herald:




See now these are the type of comments I would like to avoid seeing.....5th starter to start with, no big expectations, and by the end of year/all-star break he would be the de facto 2 or 3 guy...having earned that spot

RedPinStripes
03-15-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
From the Daily Herald:



3rd? ***? How bad does manuel think the pitching is going to be If someone who never pitched a mlb gane is a #3 guy?

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
3rd? ***? How bad does manuel think the pitching is going to be If someone who never pitched a mlb gane is a #3 guy?

Someone needs to put down the pipe. Garland has not pitched bad enough to where he should be removed from the 3rd or 4th slot. Wright has pitched well also.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Someone needs to put down the pipe. Garland has not pitched bad enough to where he should be removed from the 3rd or 4th slot. Wright has pitched well also.

The rotation should shape up okay, IMO. It's the bullpen I'm worried about.

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
The rotation should shape up okay, IMO. It's the bullpen I'm worried about.

How the rotation shakes down is going to determine the bullpen as well. If Rauch is given the 3rd spot and Garland is placed in the 4th, your adding both Wright and Glover to the bullpen, perhaps even Parque.

Still a lot of question marks.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


How the rotation shakes down is going to determine the bullpen as well. If Rauch is given the 3rd spot and Garland is placed in the 4th, your adding both Wright and Glover to the bullpen, perhaps even Parque.

Still a lot of question marks.

Hopefully they don't get too excited about Rauch. I want him to take his time coming back.

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Hopefully they don't get too excited about Rauch. I want him to take his time coming back.

Hopefully this story about him being the 3rd starter is just talk.

baggio202
03-15-2002, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Hopefully this story about him being the 3rd starter is just talk.

hopefully its just manuel trying to motivate garland...it nuts to take rauch north...he missed almost all of last year with injury and he has never pitched in the majors...and he's a number 3 starter...he might look good in spring training...but i dont hink he has pitched 3 innings in any game yet...what happens if he goes north and we find out his arm doesnt respong to pitching 6 or 7 innings???....he has to start in charlott e...if he goes 7 or 8 innings a couple of times...bounces back with good starts and shows no risidual effectas from surgery...then bring him up...but atleast a month in charlotte to prove he is 100% would be the right way to go..imo

Iwritecode
03-15-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Hopefully this story about him being the 3rd starter is just talk.

I just checked the story, it's a quote from the writer of the article, not Jerry or any of the Sox management. So far Jerry has been quoted as saying that Mark is #1 and Ritchie is #2. Nothing else is set yet...

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I just checked the story, it's a quote from the writer of the article, not Jerry or any of the Sox management. So far Jerry has been quoted as saying that Mark is #1 and Ritchie is #2. Nothing else is set yet...

That's good news, thanks Code.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


I just checked the story, it's a quote from the writer of the article, not Jerry or any of the Sox management. So far Jerry has been quoted as saying that Mark is #1 and Ritchie is #2. Nothing else is set yet...

That leaves a lot of questions for the rotation...

Will Garland be effective?
Will Parque be healthy?
Will Wright be consistent?
Will Rauch be ready?
Will Glover be anything other than a long reliever?

*sigh*...

AsInWreck
03-15-2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


That leaves a lot of questions for the rotation...

Will Garland be effective?
Will Parque be healthy?
Will Wright be consistent?
Will Rauch be ready?
Will Glover be anything other than a long reliever?

*sigh*...


That's five questions, but the sox only need 3 answers, maybe only 2( i think the sox'll be alright if they have 4 solid starters)-besides what fun would it be if we already knew the answers? Go sox!

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by AsInWreck



That's five questions, but the sox only need 3 answers, maybe only 2( i think the sox'll be alright if they have 4 solid starters)-besides what fun would it be if we already knew the answers? Go sox!

The problem is that probably none of those five questions will be answered until 2003... I'm starting to agree with Jerry that it will be a long season indeed.

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I'm starting to agree with Jerry that it will be a long season indeed.

I just see the Sox losing a lot of high scoring games this year. The games will be fun to watch, but the Sox will be on the losing end more often then not.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I just see the Sox losing a lot of high scoring games this year. The games will be fun to watch, but the Sox will be on the losing end more often then not.

The main problem is that these young pitchers out there seemingly have no clue what's going on. They're wallowing out there, and getting zero support from Manuel or Contreras. Just from listening to the games, I can tell that the Sox pitchers have a lot of talent, but they don't know what to do.

If they just got some decent coaching, they could turn the whole thing around.

voodoochile
03-15-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I just see the Sox losing a lot of high scoring games this year. The games will be fun to watch, but the Sox will be on the losing end more often then not.

There was a good analysis by a guy on the troll board of the season, this morning. Bridgeport Joe pointed out that if the Sox can win 41 of a projected 66 starts by Buehrle and Ritchie, they would only need to win half of their remaining games to get to 89 wins.

Don't know if this link is acceptable or not - it is our rival, but I have to give credit where credit is due...

Pitching analysis (http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=mlb_chw&id=118230)

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
There was a good analysis by a guy on the troll board of the season, this morning. Bridgeport Joe pointed out that if the Sox can win 41 of a projected 66 starts by Buehrle and Ritchie, they would only need to win half of their remaining games to get to 89 wins.


That's an interesting view.


I think they'll need at least 93 wins to take the division. The bullpen has to step it up otherwise Buehrle and Ritchie, are going to lose some victories.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


That's an interesting view.


I think they'll need at least 93 wins to take the division. The bullpen has to step it up otherwise Buehrle and Ritchie, are going to lose some victories.

Nah, the Twins won't win 92. Mays will fall back to the league-average pitcher he is, and the offense will sputter. I'd be surprised if they won more than 85.

Everything went right for the Twins last season, and they still only won 85 games.

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Everything went right for the Twins last season, and they still only won 85 games.

The big difference this year as opposed to last is the Indians. Last year the Indians played the Twins pretty well. As we all know the Tribe isn't going to be that good this season. I think Minnesota will take full advantage of the weak division.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


The big difference this year as opposed to last is the Indians. Last year the Indians played the Twins pretty well. As we all know the Tribe isn't going to be that good this season. I think Minnesota will take full advantage of the weak division.

I think you overrate the Twins. They just aren't that good of a team. They don't have any bats in their lineup, and their bullpen is awful.

They'll probably start out strong, as Gardenhire will undoubtedly lean on Radke, Milton, Mays, and Reed while they are still going strong early in the season. But Reed and Mays are only average pitchers, and Radke and Milton can only go so far without bullpen support.

I don't doubt that the Twins will finish above .500, but I would be absolutely stunned if they won 90.

CLR01
03-15-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


There was a good analysis by a guy on the troll board of the season, this morning. Bridgeport Joe pointed out that if the Sox can win 41 of a projected 66 starts by Buehrle and Ritchie, they would only need to win half of their remaining games to get to 89 wins.

Don't know if this link is acceptable or not - it is our rival, but I have to give credit where credit is due...

Pitching analysis (http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=mlb_chw&id=118230)


SO if Buehrle and Ritchie each win around 20 games the sox will be set. Wouldnt that be true for every team though?

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I think you overrate the Twins. They just aren't that good of a team. They don't have any bats in their lineup, and their bullpen is awful.

They'll probably start out strong, as Gardenhire will undoubtedly lean on Radke, Milton, Mays, and Reed while they are still going strong early in the season. But Reed and Mays are only average pitchers, and Radke and Milton can only go so far without bullpen support.

I don't doubt that the Twins will finish above .500, but I would be absolutely stunned if they won 90.

I may overrate them in terms of how many wins they get. However, outside of Foulke the Sox bullpen can be brutal this year as well. Their starting staff is better then ours as of now. Sure, their offense isn't anywhere close to what the Sox can do. If they can get somewhere around 4 or 5 runs a game, they'll win games. Their defense is pretty good as well.

If the Twins starting pitching is bad then the Sox should win the divison. Only time well tell.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by CLR01



SO if Buehrle and Ritchie each win around 20 games the sox will be set. Wouldnt that be true for every team though?

Well, they themselves wouldn't have to win 20. The Sox would have to just win 41 of their starts.

I think Ritchie and Buerhle will be fine, each winning between 13-17 games.

Keith Foulke will be great, as well.

Other than that, the Sox have a whole bunch of nothing.

uksoxfan
03-15-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I think you overrate the Twins. They just aren't that good of a team. They don't have any bats in their lineup, and their bullpen is awful.

They'll probably start out strong, as Gardenhire will undoubtedly lean on Radke, Milton, Mays, and Reed while they are still going strong early in the season. But Reed and Mays are only average pitchers, and Radke and Milton can only go so far without bullpen support.

I don't doubt that the Twins will finish above .500, but I would be absolutely stunned if they won 90.

I really hope your right. I've only been following the SOX for a couple of years but am I right in thinking the Twins seem to have the SOX's number recently.......'00' & '01'. If the Tribe are going to give up some W's to them too I guess we'll have to change that record, especially in Mn. :o:

BTW.........someone asked me the other day why MLB & NFL players put that black stuff on their cheeks & I had to admit I didn't know..............so why do they??

Cheers :gulp:

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I may overrate them in terms of how many wins they get. However, outside of Foulke the Sox bullpen can be brutal this year as well. Their starting staff is better then ours as of now. Sure, their offense isn't anywhere close to what the Sox can do. If they can get somewhere around 4 or 5 runs a game, they'll win games. Their defense is pretty good as well.

If the Twins starting pitching is bad then the Sox should win the divison. Only time well tell.

You could very well be right. The way things look right now, the division winner could be a below-.500 team. But the Tribe from '95-99 showed that a team with no pitching could still win divisions.

I'm not happy with the way the Sox look right now. That said, I am optimistic about their post-2002 future. Unless Williams panics and trades half the team for Rick Helling, there is a core of players that could go on a string of division championships over the next decade, and put the Sox in a very strong position to win it all as soon as 2004.

People in Sox country will scream, and gripe, and complain about this season, because the team won't match expectations, but in the long run things will be great. But it's that griping and screaming in the short run that could be dangerous, as the Sox could start making short-sighted moves that kill their future.

Note that I said "unless Williams panics". I could just as easily see the Sox at 48-50 in mid-July, 2 games out of the lead, and Williams starts dealing prospects for faded veterans, and the Sox proceed to suck for the next ten years.

This is a key year for the Sox to determine their future. Ken Williams needs to decide on a course of action, and stick to it, through thick and thin.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by uksoxfan


BTW.........someone asked me the other day why MLB & NFL players put that black stuff on their cheeks & I had to admit I didn't know..............so why do they??

Cheers :gulp:

It's to cut down glare from off their cheeks.

CLR01
03-15-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by uksoxfan


I really hope your right. I've only been following the SOX for a couple of years but am I right in thinking the Twins seem to have the SOX's number recently.......'00' & '01'. If the Tribe are going to give up some W's to them too I guess we'll have to change that record, especially in Mn. :o:

BTW.........someone asked me the other day why MLB & NFL players put that black stuff on their cheeks & I had to admit I didn't know..............so why do they??

Cheers :gulp:


I believe it helps keep the sun out of their eyes ofcourse i could be wrong.

Daver
03-15-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by uksoxfan




BTW.........someone asked me the other day why MLB & NFL players put that black stuff on their cheeks & I had to admit I didn't know..............so why do they??

Cheers :gulp:

It is to cut down on glare from the sun.Beleive it or not,it works,I use it when I hunt.

Paulwny
03-15-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by uksoxfan

BTW.........someone asked me the other day why MLB & NFL players put that black stuff on their cheeks & I had to admit I didn't know..............so why do they??

Cheers :gulp:

To eliminate the glare from the sun and lights which reflects off their cheeks and into their eyes.

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny


To eliminate the glare from the sun and lights which reflects off their cheeks and into their eyes.

4 simultaneous replies - has to be a record.

Paulwny
03-15-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


4 simultaneous replies - has to be a record.

I also noticed that, kind of eerie that we all broke through at the same time.

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
People in Sox country will scream, and gripe, and complain about this season, because the team won't match expectations,

Which begs the question what are the expectations for this season? Central title, and a playoff series win?

uksoxfan
03-15-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


4 simultaneous replies - has to be a record.


Thanks to one & all.

Cheers.. :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

czalgosz
03-15-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Which begs the question what are the expectations for this season? Central title, and a playoff series win?

I think people are expecting, at the very least, a 2000-type season (wins in the mid-to-high 90's). That just won't happen. My worst fear is that KW will expect it, and start making stupid moves when it isn't materializing.

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I think people are expecting, at the very least, a 2000-type season (wins in the mid-to-high 90's). That just won't happen. My worst fear is that KW will expect it, and start making stupid moves when it isn't materializing.

The win total doesn't matter if they win the division. I would like to think that Williams is smart enough to realize, that with all the injured arms they have 90 wins would be a good year.

Paulwny
03-15-2002, 06:08 PM
JM, thank you for the new sig.

Bmr31
03-15-2002, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


That leaves a lot of questions for the rotation...

Will Garland be effective?
Will Parque be healthy?
Will Wright be consistent?
Will Rauch be ready?
Will Glover be anything other than a long reliever?

*sigh*...


ummmm no to all 5?

Jerry_Manuel
03-15-2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
JM, thank you for the new sig.

Next week, I'll debut a Mets sig. Is that a problem?

Paulwny
03-15-2002, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Next week, I'll debut a Mets sig. Is that a problem?

Anything you like, with the exception of the EVIL EMPIRE.

OutInLeftField
03-21-2002, 04:04 PM
This may just be me looking for where the doors get blown of this summer but it seems to me the Twins have been humiliated by Selig and now want blood. You can see it right? Just our luck. And the dismantled tribe will probably only show up and play against us to prove they aren't bust outs. And you know that is what the Tiggers try to do as well. Knowing Sox luck, we will be the only team not to have a winning record against the AL Central. Sorry if that is too negative but I think Williams is an idiot and we need another pitcher ASAP.

By the way, this site Jerk of the Week is calling for a boycott of Selig's wallet padding All Star game in Milwaukee.
http://www.jerkoftheweek.com/featurestemplate.cfm?id=89
Sounds like a great idea to me.

hold2dibber
03-22-2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by baggio202


hopefully its just manuel trying to motivate garland...it nuts to take rauch north...he missed almost all of last year with injury and he has never pitched in the majors...and he's a number 3 starter...he might look good in spring training...but i dont hink he has pitched 3 innings in any game yet...what happens if he goes north and we find out his arm doesnt respong to pitching 6 or 7 innings???....he has to start in charlott e...if he goes 7 or 8 innings a couple of times...bounces back with good starts and shows no risidual effectas from surgery...then bring him up...but atleast a month in charlotte to prove he is 100% would be the right way to go..imo

Absolutely right. Rushing Rauch into the rotation now is a foolish and short-sighted idea. If they can't trade for another decent starter, I'd either give Parque the 5th spot (he has been effective, even with his velocity problems) or try Grrrrrrr.

hold2dibber
03-22-2002, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I'm not happy with the way the Sox look right now. That said, I am optimistic about their post-2002 future. Unless Williams panics and trades half the team for Rick Helling, there is a core of players that could go on a string of division championships over the next decade, and put the Sox in a very strong position to win it all as soon as 2004.

People in Sox country will scream, and gripe, and complain about this season, because the team won't match expectations, but in the long run things will be great. But it's that griping and screaming in the short run that could be dangerous, as the Sox could start making short-sighted moves that kill their future.

Note that I said "unless Williams panics". I could just as easily see the Sox at 48-50 in mid-July, 2 games out of the lead, and Williams starts dealing prospects for faded veterans, and the Sox proceed to suck for the next ten years.

This is a key year for the Sox to determine their future. Ken Williams needs to decide on a course of action, and stick to it, through thick and thin.

I think this is dangerous thinking. As well stocked as the minor league system may seem, that certainly doesn't guarantee success down the road. Two words: Scott Ruffcorn. Hell, two years ago Kip Wells and Jon Garland seemed like absolute can't miss, sure fire, top of the rotation starters by 2002. And although I still think both will be good major league pitchers, I certainly don't consider either to be "can't miss" anymore. The thing is, with the division as weak as it is this year, I think you have to strike while the iron is hot. If you can move (and this is off the top of my head) Joe Crede and Corwin Malone for a solid no. 3 starter (someone along the lines of an Aaron Sele, Chan Ho Park, or that young guy in Montreal), I'd do it in a heartbeat. This team needs some pitching help now, and there is simply too high of a failure rate, even among minor league pitchers who show great promise, to just sit back on our laurels and wait for all the young talent to lead us to the promised land.

Randar68
03-22-2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber

I think you have to strike while the iron is hot. If you can move (and this is off the top of my head) Joe Crede and Corwin Malone for a solid no. 3 starter

And you think KW is an idiot!


BLAH!

hold2dibber
03-22-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


And you think KW is an idiot!


BLAH!


Like I said, I was throwing out an example off the top of my head; but regardless of the specifics, my point is, you can't just sit around and wait under the belief that your farm system is going to make everything all right. There is no way to tell if Corwin Malone will be the next Scott Ruffcorn. Hell, JB was an absolute hot shot when he was in the minors, and he's turned out to have the highest ERA in the history of the game for a guy with as many IP (or starts?) as he has (or something like that). If you can turn these prospects into guys who give you a chance to win big over the next 2 years, I say you do it. The division is weak, and once you make the playoffs, anything can happen.

I am NOT advocating a wholesale dismantling of the farm system to get Rick Helling or Rick Reed. But an astute GM (which, I fear, we do not have) should be able to turn our well stocked system into some heavy weight contributors to take advantage of this golden opportunity, without leaving the cupboard entirely bare. We clearly have depth, with several guys without enough spots already (see Roward, Liefer, Simmons, Harris, Crede). Lets move some of them so we can make some noise NOW.

If we have a chance to win now, why not go for it, especially when we have the depth to make some bold moves without totally giving up the farm? I think it is worth noting that other than Buehrle and, before he got hurt, Barcello (to some extent), none of the young pitchers has exactly lit the world on fire when given the chance at the MLB level over the last two years (e.g., Wells, Garland, Wright, Biddle, Vining, Ginter). This is in sharp contrast, for example, to the Astros (Oswalt, Miller, Hernandez). Teams (and fans) tend to fall in love with minor leaguers with potential, only to see that potential not ripen into anything special. All I'm saying is, the organization would be making a mistake to simply assume that the seeming talent in the minors will blossom into a contending team in the future. With this offense and the division so weak, we absolutely have a chance to be a contender right now. I say, go for it.