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View Full Version : Reason To Get Pumped About Our New Bullpen.


Thome25
02-07-2007, 09:48 AM
Good article in the Sun-Times today. Got me pumped about our bullpen. Also, it was good to see something good written about the Sox.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/246383,CST-SPT-sox07.article

infohawk
02-07-2007, 09:54 AM
I agree with KW and Ozzie. The bullpen was he problem last year, including the drop-off in the record for one-run games. The bullpen options have vastly improved. The Sox got better.

Thome25
02-07-2007, 10:01 AM
That aricle got me thinking that KW may not have gone after the high-profile big-name players but, I think he still vastly improved our bullpen.

He went after guys that have great stuff. He didn't go out and overpay for big-name players.

Here's to KW for not going ape-**** with the wallet (like the flubs) and getting what look to be some quality players in the bullpen. :gulp:

pdimas
02-07-2007, 10:18 AM
I am really excited to see all that power in our bullpen. Although initially I was a bit surprised by some of the trades eventually I warmed to them after seeing how much power some of these guys had. Not to mention they are young guys. It will def be interesting to watch things play out this year. SPring training cant get here fast enough.

WizardsofOzzie
02-07-2007, 10:21 AM
Good read, however i don't like that they have all but written off Buehrle as gone :mad:

It's good to hear that Bobby is in good shape though :smile:

Thome25
02-07-2007, 10:30 AM
Good read, however i don't like that they have all but written off Buehrle as gone :mad:

It's good to hear that Bobby is in good shape though :smile:

I don't want to se Buehrle go either but, the realist in me says he's gone. The Sox don't sign pitchers to deals of 5+ years. Buehrle is probably going to want something more long-term than 3 years.

There's that issue AND the fact that he'll have to give the Sox a discount as well.

Don't want this thread to turn into Buehrle staying/going fest. Looking at the bright side and that bright side is our bullpen.

AuroraSoxFan
02-07-2007, 10:34 AM
That aricle got me thinking that KW may not have gone after the high-profile big-name players but, I think he still vastly improved our bullpen.

He went after guys that have great stuff. He didn't go out and overpay for big-name players.

Here's to KW for not going ape-**** with the wallet (like the flubs) and getting what look to be some quality players in the bullpen. :gulp:

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I am glad he didn't go off the wall with the wallet too. Didn't flubs pay like $5M for DeRosa? He's a utility IF guy! Twinkies paid a bit less than that for Morneau who was the AL MVP. Can't stand JM but he still should be paid more than a utility IF dude. But neither of those situations involve the Sox so I really don't care much.

Back to your thread, I think the pen has some huge potential. Mac is the only one with more than a few years in the ML. But I think that's a good thing more than a setback. Cooper can help a lot of those guys develop now a lot easier than if they were 10 year vets and set in their ways. Plus they all should be pretty hungry to go out and prove that they belong where they are. Should be able to anchor down a lot more close ones.

WizardsofOzzie
02-07-2007, 10:47 AM
I don't want to se Buehrle go either but, the realist in me says he's gone. The Sox don't sign pitchers to deals of 5+ years. Buehrle is probably going to want something more long-term than 3 years.

There's that issue AND the fact that he'll have to give the Sox a discount as well.

Don't want this thread to turn into Buehrle staying/going fest. Looking at the bright side and that bright side is our bullpen.
I definitely agree. There are many bright spots for the 07 season :cool:

ondafarm
02-07-2007, 02:21 PM
I don't want to se Buehrle go either but, the realist in me says he's gone. . .

Your realist needs an upgrade.

caulfield12
02-07-2007, 02:35 PM
Don't mean to hijack the thread but I am glad he didn't go off the wall with the wallet too. Didn't flubs pay like $5M for DeRosa? He's a utility IF guy! Twinkies paid a bit less than that for Morneau who was the AL MVP. Can't stand JM but he still should be paid more than a utility IF dude. But neither of those situations involve the Sox so I really don't care much.

Back to your thread, I think the pen has some huge potential. Mac is the only one with more than a few years in the ML. But I think that's a good thing more than a setback. Cooper can help a lot of those guys develop now a lot easier than if they were 10 year vets and set in their ways. Plus they all should be pretty hungry to go out and prove that they belong where they are. Should be able to anchor down a lot more close ones.

It's all based on where they are career-wise, in Year 4, 5 or 6. It's like slotting for the NFL draft, you'll see very similar numbers for those "regular" players across-the-board, unless they sign extensions before their arbitration elibility ends.

Crede is making more than Morneau as well, the argument is not that he's better than JM, just that's the way that the pay scale works in MLB right now with arbitration and salary number, unless the clubs want to hold onto them 1-3 years past their sixth season. In this case, players get significant salary bumps in Years 4-6 to offset the hypothetically big numbers they could get (see Zambrano or Crede) by going with a year-by-year approaching and waiting to test the waters.

WizardsofOzzie
02-07-2007, 02:35 PM
More bullpen stuff from whitesox.com

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070205&content_id=1794709&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws&partnered=rss_cws

chisoxmike
02-07-2007, 02:56 PM
Meh. When I see them in action during the regular season is when I'll call the bullpen "improved" or not.

The Immigrant
02-07-2007, 03:05 PM
Meh. When I see them in action during the regular season is when I'll call the bullpen "improved" or not.

Agreed, but I am at least encouraged by our track record with previously unknown fireballers like Jenks and Thornton.

sox1970
02-07-2007, 03:09 PM
Meh. When I see them in action during the regular season is when I'll call the bullpen "improved" or not.

Thank you. How many times have we seen a turnover in bullpen arms and declared it improved? And then the season starts and everyone sucks...

I'm happy with the attempt at improving the bullpen, but I'll reserve judgement until the holds and saves are in the books.

chisoxmike
02-07-2007, 03:13 PM
Thank you. How many times have we seen a turnover in bullpen arms and declared it improved? And then the season starts and everyone sucks...



...far too many times.

Every year we've had a few weak links or a drop off by someone.

02-Foulke
03-Koch
04-Koch, Jackson, Cotts
05- Marte, Shingo
06- Politte, Cotts, Riske

Frater Perdurabo
02-07-2007, 03:38 PM
...far too many times.

Every year we've had a few weak links or a drop off by someone.

02-Foulke
03-Koch
04-Koch, Jackson, Cotts
05- Marte, Shingo
06- Politte, Cotts, Riske

That's the nature of bullpen pitchers. They simply are not good enough - do not have a sufficient number of different pitches - to be starters.

That's why it's wise for KW to have stockpiled enough pitchers who have the kind of "stuff" to start, but may have had control or confidence issues in the past. Good coaching - Coop - is likely to turn several of them into good to great relievers. The Sox only need to worry about three bullpen spots as Jenks, Thornton and MacDougal should be fine.

esbrechtel
02-07-2007, 04:40 PM
I think it is more difficult (than any other position) to tell what is going to happen with a bullpen...look at 2005 who predicted that we would have 4 closers that year?

balke
02-07-2007, 05:25 PM
The only thing I've learned about bullpens over the past few seasons is you never know. We've had some great pitchers do horrible in a Sox jersey, and some horrible pitchers do great in a Sox uniform. Consistancy hasn't really sported a White Sox jersey from what I've seen. I can say these pitchers all look strong and like they can completely dominate coming out of the pen. But who knows, with strong arm pitchers maybe they all come out off the mark.

Here's hoping for the best, I'd love to go a season without giving Garland and co. so many "what ifs" at season end when they nearly get 20 win seasons.

balke
02-07-2007, 05:26 PM
I think it is more difficult (than any other position) to tell what is going to happen with a bullpen...look at 2005 who predicted that we would have 4 closers that year?


I was praying we could've traded Politte for something, anything at seasons end. That was a miracle season where he looked like our best bullpen guy at times. I guess noone fell for it though.

Vernam
02-07-2007, 09:22 PM
Your realist needs an upgrade.I do hope you're right, onda. May I call you onda? :wink: Hypothetically, suppose Buehrle starts off 2-5 with an ERA in the mid-4 range. Should KW:

a. Prepare to trade him for whatever he can get at that point.

b. Let Buehrle play out the string with us in '07 but take the big contract off the table.

c. Put on a full-court press to sign him, in the belief that his market value has bottomed out but that he'll still be the pitcher he was in '05.


One thing that really added to the bullpen strain last year, IMO, was how poorly Buehrle pitched. He used to be reliable for giving the bullpen a break almost every time out, but his troubles in '06 were part of what exposed the front of our bullpen for the train wreck it was. By the same token, maybe the improved relief this year will take some pressure off of him. Contract aside, we need him to come up big.

Vernam

balke
02-07-2007, 09:36 PM
Pitchers generally don't gain MPH back on their fastball. But, Buehrle is one of those pitchers that you just gotta think is solid and will bounce back this season, perhaps stronger than ever. Nothing like a contract year for a players performance.

jabrch
02-07-2007, 09:57 PM
I love how many guys we have who can get it in there at 95+. It's nice to have those sort of arms in a bullpen. No gauarantees - but nice to have. The bullpen now has the most talent that I ever remember it having. Now it depends on what that talent translates to.

Murphy10
02-07-2007, 10:08 PM
I know Riske wasn't the best but i still like him a lot.

And is it true that the flubs are going to make Cotts into a starter again. They should only do that if Lou Pinella wants to lose his job. Just tell him to look at how Jerry Manuel is doing after he started Neal in Yankee stadium. Or are they just going to stick him out in the pen?

I can't wait for Mac to take the mound again.

Dan Mega
02-07-2007, 10:54 PM
I love how many guys we have who can get it in there at 95+. It's nice to have those sort of arms in a bullpen. No gauarantees - but nice to have. The bullpen now has the most talent that I ever remember it having. Now it depends on what that talent translates to.

I'm very excited about this too. When was the last time a bullpen on any team had so much heat? Early 90's Cincy?

jabrch
02-08-2007, 12:09 AM
I'm very excited about this too. When was the last time a bullpen on any team had so much heat? Early 90's Cincy?

Even that pen only had Dibble, Charlton and either Franco or Meyers for a total of 3.

We have Jenks, Macdougal, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset, and Sisco, all of whom bring it over 95, and most of whom have some decent movement and at least a secondary pitch, if not more. Now as always happens with RPs, some of them will be busts. But there's no team out there with a deeper bullpen than ours. It will be interesting to see what happens with Sisco. Pen or AAA to work on starting? Would we carry 3 LHRP? If Sisco stays, that means Logan goes. (which I wouldn't be opposed to)

RichFitztightly
02-08-2007, 12:24 AM
I'm sold.

maurice
02-08-2007, 01:18 PM
Agreed, but I am at least encouraged by our track record with previously unknown fireballers like Jenks and Thornton.

Yes. Jenks, Thornton, Contreras . . . all guys with great stuff who were highly regarded and then written off when they failed to live up to expectations . . . and then ended up pitching great for the Sox under Cooper.

This bodes well for the bullpen and also for the starting rotation. Floyd fits this mold, as does Vazquez (albeit in year 2 of the rebuilding project).

caulfield12
02-08-2007, 01:38 PM
Yes. Jenks, Thornton, Contreras . . . all guys with great stuff who were highly regarded and then written off when they failed to live up to expectations . . . and then ended up pitching great for the Sox under Cooper.

This bodes well for the bullpen and also for the starting rotation. Floyd fits this mold, as does Vazquez (albeit in year 2 of the rebuilding project).

You can include Loiaza in that as well...especially when he first came up with Pittsburgh, he was absolutely nasty, but had no idea how to pitch.