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Lip Man 1
01-30-2007, 12:36 PM
Let's hope this continues for more then just a few days in spring training:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070129soxbits,1,7213872.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

ND_Sox_Fan
01-30-2007, 01:24 PM
My favorite part is how Ozzie is going to do it - with incentives and fun. Sounds like a great tone to kick off ST.

In fact, Guillen plans to set up friendly competition where winning groups will receive perks, such as free dinners, from their losing teammates.

AuroraSoxFan
01-30-2007, 01:40 PM
I'm glad the bunting/hit and runs will be a major focus. That lacked BIG time for most of 06. If they can improve on that and the RISP situations a lot more close ones should go to the good guys.

chisoxmike
01-30-2007, 02:37 PM
Let's hope this continues for more then just a few days in spring training:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070129soxbits,1,7213872.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

Yeah, he was saying this during SoxFest, he got a big cheer when he said this.

santo=dorf
01-30-2007, 04:17 PM
I'm glad the bunting/hit and runs will be a major focus. That lacked BIG time for most of 06. If they can improve on that and the RISP situations a lot more close ones should go to the good guys.
The Sox led the MLB in BA and OPS with RISP. With a high BA of .307 and a league leading SLG% of .504 (25 points higher than the second place Yankees!) I certainly hope the Sox take a better approach than wasting plate appearances with bunts.

Just my $.02

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=type1&sort=slugAvg&split=39&season=2006

Whitesox029
01-30-2007, 04:23 PM
The Sox led the MLB in BA and OPS with RISP. With a high BA of .307 and a league leading SLG% of .504 (25 points higher than the second place Yankees!) I certainly hope the Sox take a better approach than wasting plate appearances with bunts.

Just my $.02

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=type1&sort=slugAvg&split=39&season=2006
Yeah, but where did those numbers come from? Thome, Konerko and Dye, the three guys who are exempt from these drills. I'm sure Uribe and Anderson's RISP averages weren't too impressive, to name a couple.

AuroraSoxFan
01-30-2007, 04:27 PM
The Sox led the MLB in BA and OPS with RISP. With a high BA of .307 and a league leading SLG% of .504 (25 points higher than the second place Yankees!) I certainly hope the Sox take a better approach than wasting plate appearances with bunts.

Just my $.02

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=type1&sort=slugAvg&split=39&season=2006

I'm glad to learn of those digits. But they had FAR too many times when they had people on 2nd and 3rd with nobody out and failed to get anyone in. Or leadoff doubles followed by botched bunts or infield popups. I really think a solid amount of close 1-2 run games will result in W's if the timeliness of all that can improve.

santo=dorf
01-30-2007, 04:33 PM
Yeah, but where did those numbers come from? Thome, Konerko and Dye, the three guys who are exempt from these drills. I'm sure Uribe and Anderson's RISP averages weren't too impressive, to name a couple.
Right. The Sox's "problem" with hitting in any situation is due to a couple of players, yet they still had the best hitting team in the majors for those situations.

If there isn't a problem, why **** with it? We didn't lose last year because of our hitting or some of our hitters. It was all on the pitching.

Whitesox029
01-30-2007, 04:42 PM
Right. The Sox's "problem" with hitting in any situation is due to a couple of players, yet they still had the best hitting team in the majors for those situations.

If there isn't a problem, why **** with it? We didn't lose last year because of our hitting or some of our hitters. It was all on the pitching.
I don't think it's really about the numbers. When Dye or Konerko or Thome or even Crede comes up with a man in scoring position and less than two out, they won't be bunting because Ozzie knows they can hit. The problem lies in that when the other guys were up, they would try and fail to bunt. It's not that he wants them to bunt more often as a team, it's that he wants them to bunt properly and effectively more often.

santo=dorf
01-30-2007, 04:42 PM
I'm glad to learn of those digits. But they had FAR too many times when they had people on 2nd and 3rd with nobody out and failed to get anyone in. Or leadoff doubles followed by botched bunts or infield popups. I really think a solid amount of close 1-2 run games will result in W's if the timeliness of all that can improve.
Can you back that up?

I can get stats for runners on second and third (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=all&statType=1&timeFrame=1&Submit=Submit&c_id=cws&sitSplit=s23&venueID=&baseballScope=CHA&timeSubFrame=2006&&sortByStat=AVG), but the samples sizes are way small.

If the Sox are causing problems because of bunting, they do have the option of NOT bunting in those situations. I think that would be the better option because they were by far the best hitting team with RISP last season.

I'm not saying the Sox should never bunt, because a team isn't going to hit .307 against Johan Santana. If a pitcher gives off a leadoff double to start the inning, doesn't that show a strong sign of venerability and the Sox should attack him? If one of our guys nearly hits a home run against Bruce Chen, I don't want the next guy wasting a PA by giving him an out even if it advances the runner. (Which as the Sox have shown, it isn't a guarantee.)

DumpJerry
01-30-2007, 04:46 PM
I say Iguchi does nothing but bunting drills during all of Spring Training (unless he become leadoff).

Who's with me?

Whitesox029
01-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Can you back that up?

I can get stats for runners on second and third (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=all&statType=1&timeFrame=1&Submit=Submit&c_id=cws&sitSplit=s23&venueID=&baseballScope=CHA&timeSubFrame=2006&&sortByStat=AVG), but the samples sizes are way small.

If the Sox are causing problems because of bunting, they do have the option of NOT bunting in those situations. I think that would be the better option because they were by far the best hitting team with RISP last season.

I'm not saying the Sox should never bunt, because a team isn't going to hit .307 against Johan Santana. If a pitcher gives off a leadoff double to start the inning, doesn't that show a strong sign of venerability and the Sox should attack him? If one of our guys nearly hits a home run against Bruce Chen, I don't want the next guy wasting a PA by giving him an out even if it advances the runner. (Which as the Sox have shown, it isn't a guarantee.)
Again though, it's not about the team's average, it's about individual averages. I don't see how bunting practice for Anderson, Uribe and Iguchi is going to hurt the team.

AuroraSoxFan
01-30-2007, 04:53 PM
Can you back that up?

I can get stats for runners on second and third (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=all&statType=1&timeFrame=1&Submit=Submit&c_id=cws&sitSplit=s23&venueID=&baseballScope=CHA&timeSubFrame=2006&&sortByStat=AVG), but the samples sizes are way small.

If the Sox are causing problems because of bunting, they do have the option of NOT bunting in those situations. I think that would be the better option because they were by far the best hitting team with RISP last season.

I'm not saying the Sox should never bunt, because a team isn't going to hit .307 against Johan Santana. If a pitcher gives off a leadoff double to start the inning, doesn't that show a strong sign of venerability and the Sox should attack him? If one of our guys nearly hits a home run against Bruce Chen, I don't want the next guy wasting a PA by giving him an out even if it advances the runner. (Which as the Sox have shown, it isn't a guarantee.)

I'm not knocking their RISP stats or any other offensive stats. they just had too many times when they NEEDED some runs and couldn't get them, especially in the 2nd half. Bunts will backfire now and then. Hit & runs will lead to slower runners thrown out here and there should the hitter miss or line out etc.. I'm just glad they are talking about TRYING to do that kind of thing a bit more in 07. Seemed to rely too much on the long ball.

MisterB
01-30-2007, 04:55 PM
Please note that the only AL team with fewer at-bats with RISP is the Devil Rays. If the bunting and hit & run can get more guys into scoring position then it's all good.

oeo
01-30-2007, 05:06 PM
I say Iguchi does nothing but bunting drills during all of Spring Training (unless he become leadoff).

Who's with me?

Why would not leading off change that? A lot of guys need to work on their bunting, including the leadoff hitter. Unfortunately since Pods is going to be out most of ST, he can't work on his bunting.

And Iguchi did a fine job in 2005 getting Pods over, without bunting...the problem last year was Pods was never on base.

DumpJerry
01-30-2007, 05:10 PM
Why would not leading off change that? A lot of guys need to work on their bunting, including the leadoff hitter. Unfortunately since Pods is going to be out most of ST, he can't work on his bunting.

And Iguchi did a fine job in 2005 getting Pods over, without bunting...the problem last year was Pods was never on base.
Gooch had many bunts fly into the air and land in the either the Pitcher's or Catcher's glove. He needs to work on getting the bunt down.

santo=dorf
01-30-2007, 05:11 PM
I don't see how bunting practice for Anderson, Uribe and Iguchi is going to hurt the team.
Anderson needs to develop his swing more. We're taking time away from him being a normal hitter to spend it on him bunting.

Uribe is a hit or miss player. If he's hitting well, you don't want him bunting, if he's not hitting well, he's lost at the plate. So maybe some bunting practice will help him because he's always been pretty bad.

For the past two years the Sox have talked about Iguchi's power and how he can be a 25-30 HR hitter. Bunting practice definitely hurts him.


Podsednik needs the most bunting practice of anybody.

nodiggity59
01-30-2007, 05:18 PM
Anderson needs to develop his swing more. We're taking time away from him being a normal hitter to spend it on him bunting.


For the past two years the Sox have talked about Iguchi's power and how he can be a 25-30 HR hitter. Bunting practice definitely hurts him.




I really disagree with these statements. We're talking about a half hour of practice per day. That's hardly a fraction of what the guys will end up spending on their regular batting game throughout the season, but probably doubles the amount of time they spend on bunting. Basically, IMO, it will most likely help their bunting and very very very marginally hurt their hitting.

oeo
01-30-2007, 05:56 PM
Gooch had many bunts fly into the air and land in the either the Pitcher's or Catcher's glove. He needs to work on getting the bunt down.

I realize that, but so does every guy; I don't understand singling out Iguchi. There was not one guy that could consistently put a bunt down. And they were all popping them up...not just Gooch.

caulfield12
01-30-2007, 06:22 PM
A lot of these stats (on the positive side) were padded or accumulated in the first half of the season. I'm sure there's a dramatic falloff in the second half.

Second, we did hit a ton of solo homers, or homers with a runner on 1st (because Pods was parked there), leading to few opportunities. If we'd been better bunters, more RISP.

Third, some of the players at the bottom of the order could only score the runners (slower) through doubles, triples and homers in front of them. You're not going to bunt with Crede or AJ so the 7th, 8th and 9th hitters will need to get two singles to get the speed-challenged in.

We definitely need more EARLY runs in games like 2005, which can be set up by more steals and bunts from the 2 hole. With Pods on the shelf, this is negated a little, but we can move the runner over for the heart of the order instead of waiting for homers.

Lip Man 1
01-30-2007, 06:36 PM
Keep in mind, Ozzie himself, on more then one occasion, said to the media that he could no longer play "Ozzie-ball" because the players he NEEDED to execute simply could not get it done. You may also recall he 'blamed' the top two and bottom two spots in the batting order for falling way short on this.

Also regarding the second half does anyone else recall how awful the Sox were in bunting just in July? Jose Contraras had a successful sacrifice in late June in Pittsburgh then the Sox went (I think) 20 or 22 games without being able to lay down a successful bunt.

There were a number of times the Sox simply could not get a guy over from second to third base and could not drive home guys with less then two outs. Ultimately these cost some games and when the difference between making the post-season in the toughest division in baseball or getting tee times is only a few games, this can be crucial.

It's not just bunting by the way, Ozzie clearly wants hitting the other way and the hit and run to be a part of this.

Good...no make that GREAT. I'm all for it.

This is clearly an area that needed to be worked on. I'm glad Ozzie is making it mandatory for the spring and that he's bringing in some 'special' guest coaches to help with this. I spoke to one of them last night, Scott Fletcher.

Lip

champagne030
01-30-2007, 09:09 PM
Anderson needs to develop his swing more. We're taking time away from him being a normal hitter to spend it on him bunting.

Uribe is a hit or miss player. If he's hitting well, you don't want him bunting, if he's not hitting well, he's lost at the plate. So maybe some bunting practice will help him because he's always been pretty bad.

For the past two years the Sox have talked about Iguchi's power and how he can be a 25-30 HR hitter. Bunting practice definitely hurts him.


Podsednik needs the most bunting practice of anybody.

I don't agree with all of your statements in this thread, but we're in agreement that Pods needs some serious work in laying down the bunt. He was terrible bunting last season, especially when it was a sacrifice attempt.

champagne030
01-30-2007, 09:11 PM
Keep in mind, Ozzie himself, on more then one occasion, said to the media that he could no longer play "Ozzie-ball" because the players he NEEDED to execute simply could not get it done. You may also recall he 'blamed' the top two and bottom two spots in the batting order for falling way short on this.

Also regarding the second half does anyone else recall how awful the Sox were in bunting just in July? Jose Contraras had a successful sacrifice in late June in Pittsburgh then the Sox went (I think) 20 or 22 games without being able to lay down a successful bunt.

There were a number of times the Sox simply could not get a guy over from second to third base and could not drive home guys with less then two outs. Ultimately these cost some games and when the difference between making the post-season in the toughest division in baseball or getting tee times is only a few games, this can be crucial.

It's not just bunting by the way, Ozzie clearly wants hitting the other way and the hit and run to be a part of this.

Good...no make that GREAT. I'm all for it.

This is clearly an area that needed to be worked on. I'm glad Ozzie is making it mandatory for the spring and that he's bringing in some 'special' guest coaches to help with this. I spoke to one of them last night, Scott Fletcher.

Lip

A shout out for Scooter......:smile:

Vernam
01-30-2007, 11:07 PM
A shout out for Scooter......:smile:Just so they don't bring back the Dibber to teach baserunning. :duck:

If our 2006 pitching hadn't taken a step backward, then the powerhouse lineup might have overcome the inability to bunt and advance runners. A case can definitely be made for not bunting early in the game with Dye, Thome, and Konerko coming up. But we found ourselves late in a lot of tight games -- higher scoring ones than in 2005 -- where a timely sacrifice or ground out behind the runner would have made a difference and been preferable at that stage of the game to waiting for a homer or extra-base hit.

And sorry to state the obvious, but for teams intending to play in the post-season, bunting is quite a handy skill.

Vernam

Domeshot17
01-30-2007, 11:54 PM
Anderson needs to develop his swing more. We're taking time away from him being a normal hitter to spend it on him bunting.

Uribe is a hit or miss player. If he's hitting well, you don't want him bunting, if he's not hitting well, he's lost at the plate. So maybe some bunting practice will help him because he's always been pretty bad.

For the past two years the Sox have talked about Iguchi's power and how he can be a 25-30 HR hitter. Bunting practice definitely hurts him.


Podsednik needs the most bunting practice of anybody.

I have to completely disagree. We have enough sluggers. We need guys who can set the table and get guys into scoring position. I don't want Iguchi hitting 30 home runs out of the 2 hole if it means he isnt as capable of getting Pods Or Erstad or whoever into scoring position. The only time he should be thinking RBI is when someone is already in scoring position, which would be Uribe Anderson and Pods. That is why those 3 need to learn to play small ball.

Furthermore, how frusterating was it last year when someone like Crede couldn't move the tying run over.

Baseball is a game of skewed numbers. Lets say the entire team has a hole hit .307 with RISP. That means 70% of the time we left those guys out there. If we have a guy on 2nd no outs, why not bunt him over and try and let 1 guy get him home with a sac fly, and if he fails another guy hits him home. Im not a huge stat buff, but what was our percentage of runners scored in scoring position. Im guessing near 38%. If fundamentals gets that number closer to 43-48%, we are a 100 win team.

We need to stop living and dying by the 3 run homer.

caulfield12
01-31-2007, 12:06 AM
Anderson needs to develop his swing more. We're taking time away from him being a normal hitter to spend it on him bunting.

Uribe is a hit or miss player. If he's hitting well, you don't want him bunting, if he's not hitting well, he's lost at the plate. So maybe some bunting practice will help him because he's always been pretty bad.

For the past two years the Sox have talked about Iguchi's power and how he can be a 25-30 HR hitter. Bunting practice definitely hurts him.


Podsednik needs the most bunting practice of anybody.

If Anderson swings more, you can cancel all those orders for wind farm turbines in Eastern Europe...he will generate enough wind power with his swings to provide sufficient electricity to Budapest and Bratislava.