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caulfield12
01-28-2007, 06:23 AM
FRONT-RUNNER: While Williams has said that knuckleballer Charlie Haeger and highly-touted left-hander John Danks will compete with righty Gavin Floyd for the No. 5 spot in the starting rotation, he does feel that Floyd has the early edge.
A Fall League performance in which Floyd looked dominant has all but assured that.


''The most difficult thing in spring is going to be the evaluation of Charlie Haeger in Tucson because the knuckle doesn't knuckle there,'' Williams said. ''So that will be difficult. But the guy that we like to see is Gavin Floyd. We felt that he was going to have the same chance as Brandon McCarthy to win that fifth spot before the trade with Texas. That's how much I like Mr. Floyd.''


from suntimes.com

IndianWhiteSox
01-28-2007, 08:34 AM
Well yeah who else would be the favorite of the fifth spot?

caulfield12
01-28-2007, 08:51 AM
Well yeah who else would be the favorite of the fifth spot?

Haeger...Broadway...Phillips...Masset...Danks...Gi o

SoXPriDe33
01-28-2007, 08:55 AM
''The most difficult thing in spring is going to be the evaluation of Charlie Haeger in Tucson because the knuckle doesn't knuckle there,'' Williams said. ''So that will be difficult. But the guy that we like to see is Gavin Floyd. We felt that he was going to have the same chance as Brandon McCarthy to win that fifth spot before the trade with Texas. That's how much I like Mr. Floyd.''


from suntimes.com




Can someone explain to me why the knuckle doesn't knuckle in Tuscon? Is it just for Haeger that the Knuckle doesn't work right down there or is it for any knuckleballer?

hose
01-28-2007, 09:13 AM
Can someone explain to me why the knuckle doesn't knuckle in Tuscon? Is it just for Haeger that the Knuckle doesn't work right down there or is it for any knuckleballer?

The dry air seems to have a major effect on breaking balls and the pitchers are at a disadvantage.

One other thing about playing ST in AZ is that the ground is very hard and a lot of balls will get through the infield. Plus balls find the gap a little easier and routine singles turn into doubles. Pitchers have to tough it out and keep it all in perspective.

caulfield12
01-28-2007, 09:17 AM
Can someone explain to me why the knuckle doesn't knuckle in Tuscon? Is it just for Haeger that the Knuckle doesn't work right down there or is it for any knuckleballer?


Beat the freakin' Badgers for once Alford.

Bo Ryan owns you like a cheap suit.

DarkHorse35
01-28-2007, 10:26 AM
Can someone explain to me why the knuckle doesn't knuckle in Tuscon? Is it just for Haeger that the Knuckle doesn't work right down there or is it for any knuckleballer?

Yeah Garland has always been pretty attrocious in Spring Training becuase of the effect on his sinker there.

Hitmen77
01-28-2007, 11:59 AM
What was it about Floyd's fall league performance that really impressed the Sox? His numbers, IIRC, didn't look very good at all.

I know that scouting isn't all about stats. So, I'm not saying I disagree with KW's statement. It's just that the only info I have seen are the stats and they don't look very impressive from the fall league. Is there anyone here followed the fall league - or even attended any of the games(?) - that could shed some light on how Floyd has apparently turned the corner in the White Sox's eyes?

UserNameBlank
01-28-2007, 12:15 PM
What was it about Floyd's fall league performance that really impressed the Sox? His numbers, IIRC, didn't look very good at all.

I know that scouting isn't all about stats. So, I'm not saying I disagree with KW's statement. It's just that the only info I have seen are the stats and they don't look very impressive from the fall league. Is there anyone here followed the fall league - or even attended any of the games(?) - that could shed some light on how Floyd has apparently turned the corner in the White Sox's eyes?

I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere or hearing somewhere that he has improved his command of his breaking stuff?

If that is the case then it fits right in with this discussion, being how effective will his breaking stuff be in ST?

I just hope Gavin doesn't have one of those Scott Schoenweis 2004 Spring Trainings (although if he is lights out for the first month or so of the season I won't complain... unless he sucks for the rest of the season, also like Schoenweis).

IndianWhiteSox
01-28-2007, 12:18 PM
Haeger...Broadway...Phillips...Masset...Danks...Gi o

Key word favorite!

Haegar won't be, because as many people have said his knuckleball doesn't work and even on normal days its very inconsistent.

Broadway and Gonzalez aren't, because they still need more time in the minors

Masset and Danks, same as Broadway and Gonzalez

Phillips, because from what I've understood about KW trying to trade him in the off-season isn't really a favorite of KW.

So by default that makes Gavin Floyd, the man who supposedly according to a scout who tapped on the shoulder, "is turning the corner".

Well, we'll wait and see and hopefully its Gavin Floyd.

UserNameBlank
01-28-2007, 12:22 PM
Key word favorite!

Haegar won't be, because as many people have said his knuckleball doesn't work and even on normal days its very inconsistent.

Broadway and Gonzalez aren't, because they still need more time in the minors

Masset and Danks, same as Broadway and Gonzalez

Phillips, because from what I've understood about KW trying to trade him in the off-season isn't really a favorite of KW.

I think Heager and Phillips both would have to have absolutely remarkable ST's to make this team. My guess would be these are two guys who the Sox would like at AAA to maybe come in on short notice for a short period of time and spot start or something without wasting options on better prospects.

With Ozzie as manager, I can realistically see any of Gio, Danks, or Floyd making the squad out of ST with good performances. One of the things I like best about Oz is that if a player is very young but performs well enough to get the job done Ozzie will bring him aboard or at least, if nothing else, push him to the front of the line just like in McCarthy's and Logan's cases.

oeo
01-28-2007, 12:24 PM
Haeger...Broadway...Phillips...Masset...Danks...Gi o

I'd say that Haeger is the only one that has an actual shot to overtake him. I'm pretty sure they plan on keeping Masset in the bullpen, and the rest of those guys are not ready yet.

caulfield12
01-28-2007, 12:28 PM
Theoretically, they could take Masset for the rotation and Floyd for the pen. What's the main concern about Masset as a starter? Stamina? Not enough secondary pitches? Control? Is he like a Thornton/Sisco that might desire to start but would appear to be more effective out of the pen due to their limited repertoires? Heck, you could say the same thing about Cotts, he had one really good pitch, one "okay" pitch but not enough variety to survive as a starter like 4-5 pitches or angles you get with a Vazquez or Contreras.

UserNameBlank
01-28-2007, 12:33 PM
Theoretically, they could take Masset for the rotation and Floyd for the pen. What's the main concern about Masset as a starter? Stamina? Not enough secondary pitches? Control? Is he like a Thornton/Sisco that might desire to start but would appear to be more effective out of the pen due to their limited repertoires? Heck, you could say the same thing about Cotts, he had one really good pitch, one "okay" pitch but not enough variety to survive as a starter like 4-5 pitches or angles you get with a Vazquez or Contreras.

My guess is it would come down to Masset's comfort level. If the guy is doing a good job in the pen, don't mess with it. Bring him up to the bigs and bring him out of the pen at first and then down the road make the change if it appears to benefit both the Sox and Masset.

champagne030
01-28-2007, 01:01 PM
What was it about Floyd's fall league performance that really impressed the Sox? His numbers, IIRC, didn't look very good at all.

I know that scouting isn't all about stats. So, I'm not saying I disagree with KW's statement. It's just that the only info I have seen are the stats and they don't look very impressive from the fall league. Is there anyone here followed the fall league - or even attended any of the games(?) - that could shed some light on how Floyd has apparently turned the corner in the White Sox's eyes?

Nothing would suggest the word "dominant" that's been thrown around. He was roughed up in half his starts. I have a very bad feeling that we're going to suffer with the "black hole", at least early in the season. My hope is that if Floyd and Haeger both stink in ST that they don't give Floyd two months to straighten his **** out in Chicago rather than making a trade or giving someone else a shot.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/news/262712.html

Phillies general manager Pat Gillick, assistant GM Mike Arbuckle and special assistant to the GM Don Welke were among the front office contingent on hand in Scottsdale on Monday to observe righthander Gavin Floyd's start against the Scorpions.

Arbuckle recently gave Floyd an ultimatum of sorts, saying everything was in his hands to be successful in a one-on-one meeting before Floyd reported to Arizona. Arbuckle continued that stance after the fourth overall pick in 2001 tossed three hitless innings against Scottsdale--this after he allowed seven runs on five hits, including two homers, in his last start against Phoenix.

"It's time for him now to take it to the next level," Arbuckle said. "We've done everything we can do as an organization to help him do it. I thought today's outing was solid--not spectacular, but solid.

"I saw some good curveballs. His fastball had consistent velocity, but there were more up in the zone than I would have liked to see. The changeup was good--so the stuff was pretty solid. Again, this isn't something I'm going to do cartwheels over, but it wasn't a negative either."

champagne030
01-28-2007, 01:22 PM
Beat the freakin' Badgers for once Alford.

Bo Ryan owns you like a cheap suit.

Wrong thread? :redneck

Theoretically, they could take Masset for the rotation and Floyd for the pen. What's the main concern about Masset as a starter? Stamina? Not enough secondary pitches? Control? Is he like a Thornton/Sisco that might desire to start but would appear to be more effective out of the pen due to their limited repertoires? Heck, you could say the same thing about Cotts, he had one really good pitch, one "okay" pitch but not enough variety to survive as a starter like 4-5 pitches or angles you get with a Vazquez or Contreras.

Masset has lacked control on all his pitches, but especially with his slider and cutter. He really lacks anything offspeed at this point, so even with improved control it would be pretty hard to survive with a 4 seamer, cutter and slider as a starter. Also, his fastball jumped 3-4 mph as a reliever so maybe stamina is an issue too.

oeo
01-28-2007, 01:29 PM
Nothing would suggest the word "dominant" that's been thrown around. He was roughed up in half his starts. I have a very bad feeling that we're going to suffer with the "black hole", at least early in the season. My hope is that if Floyd and Haeger both stink in ST that they don't give Floyd two months to straighten his **** out in Chicago rather than making a trade or giving someone else a shot.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/news/262712.html

Who the hell are they going to trade for? No one is going to make trades a month into the season.

I think Floyd is going to surprise a lot of people this year. I'd rather they stick with him (hopefully it's not that bad), than rush Danks or Gio up. If things really are not working out, give Haeger a shot, and maybe at the trade deadline we can make a trade if we really need to.

champagne030
01-28-2007, 03:22 PM
Who the hell are they going to trade for? No one is going to make trades a month into the season.

No, nobody is going to make a trade a month into the season, but there's trades to be made when rosters need to be trimmed in ST. We're not going to get Cy Young in that deal, but maybe a veteran (for example purposes - take your pick on the Washington staff) who could throw up (no pun intended) an ERA of 5.50.

I think Floyd is going to surprise a lot of people this year. I'd rather they stick with him (hopefully it's not that bad), than rush Danks or Gio up. If things really are not working out, give Haeger a shot, and maybe at the trade deadline we can make a trade if we really need to.

I'd rather not rush Danks and Gio too. My point was that if nobody really stands out in ST and we don't go outside the organization, then give Haeger a try if Floyd bombs in his first 2-3 starts. Nothing in his track record shows he'll turn it around and I rather not blow up the BP every 5th day or go back to skipping spots and leaving the starting staff in flux as to when they'll pitch next. Hopefully, Coop works some magic with Floyd and we don't need to worry about it.

oeo
01-28-2007, 03:35 PM
No, nobody is going to make a trade a month into the season, but there's trades to be made when rosters need to be trimmed in ST. We're not going to get Cy Young in that deal, but maybe a veteran (for example purposes - take your pick on the Washington staff) who could throw up (no pun intended) an ERA of 5.50.

There's really no point to a trade like this. I don't think Floyd will do worse than a 5.50 ERA. Trading for a veteran who is going to do the same damn thing is useless.

I'd rather not rush Danks and Gio too. My point was that if nobody really stands out in ST and we don't go outside the organization, then give Haeger a try if Floyd bombs in his first 2-3 starts. Nothing in his track record shows he'll turn it around and I rather not blow up the BP every 5th day or go back to skipping spots and leaving the starting staff in flux as to when they'll pitch next. Hopefully, Coop works some magic with Floyd and we don't need to worry about it.

2-3 starts will not be enough, IMO, to judge whether to make a change. There are a number of things that could go wrong in those few starts that were flukey. I say you have to at least give him until mid-May/June before you make a decision to make a change. And if they're confident in him, don't be surprised if he continues to pitch past that point even if he's struggling. Still, I think a lot of people are forgetting that he will be our fifth starter. We need him to eat some innings. I think he will prove to be more than an innings eater, but we don't need a Cy Young candidate for our fifth rotation spot.

champagne030
01-28-2007, 05:22 PM
There's really no point to a trade like this. I don't think Floyd will do worse than a 5.50 ERA. Trading for a veteran who is going to do the same damn thing is useless.

You think more highly of Floyd than I do. I'm worried about an ERA of 7+ and being gone with 2 outs in the 4th.


2-3 starts will not be enough, IMO, to judge whether to make a change. There are a number of things that could go wrong in those few starts that were flukey. I say you have to at least give him until mid-May/June before you make a decision to make a change. And if they're confident in him, don't be surprised if he continues to pitch past that point even if he's struggling. Still, I think a lot of people are forgetting that he will be our fifth starter. We need him to eat some innings. I think he will prove to be more than an innings eater, but we don't need a Cy Young candidate for our fifth rotation spot.

I qualify this with my statement before that he wins the 5th starter spot by default (ie - nobody is impressive in ST).

How long do you want to go with him? He hasn't shown squat in years. We could skip his spot in early April with minimum disruption to the rest of the starting staff, but how much is enough? Let him get his **** together or prove himself in Charlotte, if he needs that. Yes, he would be our fifth starter, but bringing in a young bullpen to mop up isn't going to help the BP when they're trying to define their own roles. I don't even see an innings eater. His track record is walks and then getting drilled when he must come with the fastball. Ozzie isn't going to let him sit out there walking people, just to save the BP. Maybe if Pods is on the DL to start the season we do go with a 12 man staff. I think that would be best if Floyd doesn't light things up in ST - a designated long man (Haeger) to eat innings if he's no good.

DSpivack
01-28-2007, 05:25 PM
How far away is Danks? For some reason I thought he was pretty close to major-league ready.

goon
01-28-2007, 05:37 PM
How long do you want to go with him? He hasn't shown squat in years. We could skip his spot in early April with minimum disruption to the rest of the starting staff, but how much is enough? Let him get his **** together or prove himself in Charlotte, if he needs that. Yes, he would be our fifth starter, but bringing in a young bullpen to mop up isn't going to help the BP when they're trying to define their own roles. I don't even see an innings eater. His track record is walks and then getting drilled when he must come with the fastball. Ozzie isn't going to let him sit out there walking people, just to save the BP. Maybe if Pods is on the DL to start the season we do go with a 12 man staff. I think that would be best if Floyd doesn't light things up in ST - a designated long man (Haeger) to eat innings if he's no good.


well, kenny williams does see something in him and i assume that he knows way more about baseball than you. i'm not sold on floyd necessarily, but i think between him and haegar, one will adequately fill the fifth spot in the rotation.

i really doubt a trade for floyd would have went through if the organization didn't think he would make a positive impact on the team, considering the need for a fifth starter NOW. don't overdose on what he has done in the past or his numbers, recognize what talent he does have and have some confidence that don cooper can work with him on his consistency. look at matt thronton last year.

also, the guys in the bullpen know their roles.

EMachine10
01-28-2007, 05:51 PM
yes, people tend to get spoiled because of our tremendous 5-deep rotation the past two years. but we tend to forget that most teams don't have that, and that the 5th starter usually isn't a 1-3 starter for other teams.

EMachine10
01-28-2007, 05:58 PM
yes, people tend to get spoiled because of our tremendous 5-deep rotation the past two years. but we tend to forget that most teams don't have that, and that the 5th starter usually isn't a 1-3 starter for other teams.

DumpJerry
01-28-2007, 06:15 PM
Can someone explain to me why the knuckle doesn't knuckle in Tuscon? Is it just for Haeger that the Knuckle doesn't work right down there or is it for any knuckleballer?

The dry air seems to have a major effect on breaking balls and the pitchers are at a disadvantage.

One other thing about playing ST in AZ is that the ground is very hard and a lot of balls will get through the infield. Plus balls find the gap a little easier and routine singles turn into doubles. Pitchers have to tough it out and keep it all in perspective.
The more humid the air, the more a knuckleball breaks. I saw Haeger last season come out after a rain delay when the humidity was still 90%. I was sitting rught by Home. His pitch was all over the place. He struck out the side on something like only 12 pitches. The batters had no clue!

oeo
01-28-2007, 06:20 PM
well, kenny williams does see something in him and i assume that he knows way more about baseball than you. i'm not sold on floyd necessarily, but i think between him and haegar, one will adequately fill the fifth spot in the rotation.

i really doubt a trade for floyd would have went through if the organization didn't think he would make a positive impact on the team, considering the need for a fifth starter NOW. don't overdose on what he has done in the past or his numbers, recognize what talent he does have and have some confidence that don cooper can work with him on his consistency. look at matt thronton last year.

also, the guys in the bullpen know their roles.


As well as trading McCarthy. If they didn't think Floyd could get the job done, they would have never traded McCarthy.

Seems to me that a lot of people would be more confident with McCarthy out there, yet we would still have the same question marks. McCarthy was great for us in 2005, down the stretch, but he did not prove his worth in the bullpen or in the few starts that he did have last year. You could say it was because he wasn't comfortable in the bullpen, but we will never know that for sure. Either way, we would have a young pitcher that we were not sure about, as our fifth starter.

Gregory Pratt
01-28-2007, 06:24 PM
Oh, man, I don't like Floyd.

champagne030
01-28-2007, 06:41 PM
As well as trading McCarthy. If they didn't think Floyd could get the job done, they would have never traded McCarthy.

Seems to me that a lot of people would be more confident with McCarthy out there, yet we would still have the same question marks. McCarthy was great for us in 2005, down the stretch, but he did not prove his worth in the bullpen or in the few starts that he did have last year. You could say it was because he wasn't comfortable in the bullpen, but we will never know that for sure. Either way, we would have a young pitcher that we were not sure about, as our fifth starter.

That's the thinking that bothers me. Floyd cannot carry McCarthy's jock at this point. You don't think Mccarthy proved his worth in the 'pen? Fine....What has Floyd done to make you think he's proven anything? We might be better off in the future (Gio), but I'm SURE that Kenny (guaranteed to not be on record) would rather have McCarthy as our 5th starter than Floyd.

oeo
01-28-2007, 06:46 PM
That's the thinking that bothers me. Floyd cannot carry McCarthy's jock at this point. You don't think Mccarthy proved his worth in the 'pen? Fine....What has Floyd done to make you think he's proven anything? We might be better off in the future (Gio), but I'm SURE that Kenny (guaranteed to not be on record) would rather have McCarthy as our 5th starter than Floyd.

I never said that Floyd has proven anything. My point was that neither have proven anything. McCarthy, outside of a couple of starts in 2005, had not proven himself.

And I think the bolded part is a load of bull****. McCarthy is so overrated here, it's not even funny. He's reached the status that Rowand was at after he left.

Something you can't argue with is the way the Sox have evaluated the talent that they have given up/received over the past few years. If they think that Floyd can get the job done, I believe them. We've heard it over and over again with different players that were supposed to be stars. Freddy Garcia trade? Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo? Were those two not supposed to be All Stars? And if there's something the Texas Rangers cannot do, it's evaluating pitching...so maybe they, like all of us, bought into all the McCarthy hype.

I trust that Floyd will be fine, and with good reason.

champagne030
01-28-2007, 06:56 PM
I never said that Floyd has proven anything. My point was that neither have proven anything. McCarthy, outside of a couple of starts in 2005, had not proven himself.

And I think the bolded part is a load of bull****. McCarthy is so overrated here, it's not even funny. He's reached the status that Rowand was at after he left.

Again, do not try to say Floyd is the same as McCarthy. It's not even close.

Go look/talk to any site/scout that talks about prospects or do your own evaluation if you watch the minors. The Sox took a step back in the rotation to try and make themselves better positioned in the future.

oeo
01-28-2007, 07:01 PM
Again, do not try to say Floyd is the same as McCarthy. It's not even close.

Go look/talk to any site/scout that talks about prospects or do your own evaluation if you watch the minors. The Sox took a step back in the rotation to try and make themselves better positioned in the future.

Honestly, are you reading my posts? You're putting words into my mouth.

One last time: Neither has proven anything to make me think that one will end up being better than the other.

I did say McCarthy was overrated around here, and he is. Some people were expecting McCarthy to be our #2 or #3 starter next year, when in all reality he would be our #5. But I never said Floyd was better than (or "the same as") McCarthy.

champagne030
01-28-2007, 07:39 PM
Honestly, are you reading my posts? You're putting words into my mouth.

One last time: Neither has proven anything to make me think that one will end up being better than the other.

I did say McCarthy was overrated around here, and he is. Some people were expecting McCarthy to be our #2 or #3 starter next year, when in all reality he would be our #5. But I never said Floyd was better than (or "the same as") McCarthy.

My bad, if I put words into your mouth. :redface:

I've seen too many posts around here that claim Floyd and McCarthy are the equals as a 5th starter and that is just plain silly.

We've given ourselves a much better chance to be competitive if we lose our starting rotation as FA's after this season and beyond, but to think we're equal in '07 is stuffing one's head in the sand.

nodiggity59
01-28-2007, 07:53 PM
I've seen too many posts around here that claim Floyd and McCarthy are the equals as a 5th starter and that is just plain silly.

to think we're equal in '07 is stuffing one's head in the sand.

This may be a little vague and philosophical, but here goes....

I'm ok with us not being as ready for 07. In fact, I welcome a more conservative approach for this season with an eye towards 08 and beyond.

Last year, we had a team that we thought was between 95-100% of what you would want from a team. Obviously, things didn't work out for us.

A year later, I feel that KW should make sure that the team is what he feels is at least an 85 win team and leave the rest to chance or possibly midseason deals because, in the end, there's only so much you can know about your team in the offseason.

Going from Brandon to Floyd is a downgrade, but I don't think it makes us a sub 85 win team and, IMO, anything more than that is chance and only makes sense in hindsight. Finally, we have more pieces for the future than we did at the end of the season.

drftnaway
01-28-2007, 08:21 PM
This may be a little vague and philosophical, but here goes....

I'm ok with us not being as ready for 07. In fact, I welcome a more conservative approach for this season with an eye towards 08 and beyond.

Last year, we had a team that we thought was between 95-100% of what you would want from a team. Obviously, things didn't work out for us.

A year later, I feel that KW should make sure that the team is what he feels is at least an 85 win team and leave the rest to chance or possibly midseason deals because, in the end, there's only so much you can know about your team in the offseason.

Going from Brandon to Floyd is a downgrade, but I don't think it makes us a sub 85 win team and, IMO, anything more than that is chance and only makes sense in hindsight. Finally, we have more pieces for the future than we did at the end of the season.

I think it's really more going from Garcia to Floyd but I still agree with you.

Daver
01-28-2007, 09:04 PM
My bad, if I put words into your mouth. :redface:

I've seen too many posts around here that claim Floyd and McCarthy are the equals as a 5th starter and that is just plain silly.

We've given ourselves a much better chance to be competitive if we lose our starting rotation as FA's after this season and beyond, but to think we're equal in '07 is stuffing one's head in the sand.

Guess what, on paper the 2005 Sox were picked to finish third in their own division, and not just by the so called "experts", but by Sox fans.

It's a damn good thing the games are actually played on the field and not on paper ain't it?

A. Cavatica
01-28-2007, 09:06 PM
The consensus seems to be that we'd love to see Floyd turn the corner and live up to his potential...so I hereby dub him Gavin "Deep Pink" Floyd.

Vernam
01-28-2007, 11:32 PM
The consensus seems to be that we'd love to see Floyd turn the corner and live up to his potential...so I hereby dub him Gavin "Deep Pink" Floyd.:worship: :worship: :worship:

Vernam

maurice
01-29-2007, 12:49 PM
Seems to me that a lot of people would be more confident with McCarthy out there, yet we would still have the same question marks....Either way, we would have a young pitcher that we were not sure about, as our fifth starter.

I agree, except I'm pretty sure that the complainers would still be complaining, because they're just pushing an agenda. For example, there's no way in hell that Phil Rogers calls McCarthy a "proven workhorse" if he's still on our roster. The grass is always greener.

soxinem1
01-29-2007, 06:12 PM
The dry air seems to have a major effect on breaking balls and the pitchers are at a disadvantage.

If that's the case, he better not be on the mound this October if we are playing the D-Backs in Arizona in the World Series!:rolleyes:

Soxfest
01-29-2007, 08:45 PM
It's is Floyd's to lose from day 1.

Vernam
01-29-2007, 08:50 PM
I agree, except I'm pretty sure that the complainers would still be complaining, because they're just pushing an agenda. For example, there's no way in hell that Phil Rogers calls McCarthy a "proven workhorse" if he's still on our roster. The grass is always greener.Phil does love Sox players in direct proportion to how likely they are to leave town. Most of all, he loves the ones who've already left.:D:


Seems to me that a lot of people would be more confident with McCarthy out there, yet we would still have the same question marks....Either way, we would have a young pitcher that we were not sure about, as our fifth starter.That's true re: the fans. For the Sox organization, I think they didn't view McCarthy as much of a question mark at all, in terms of his potential upside. So he gone.

At SoxFest, Thornton was cited again and again as proof that Coop can work magic with former phenoms. That's a whole lot of pressure to put on the guy. But they seem confident at least one of the pickups will be as good as or better than McCarthy right away, and because of their tools, the potential upside from there would be more than the Sox think McCarthy ever could've achieved.

In the Friday seminar, KW also hinted again that the prospects could be dealt, though he said nothing's in the works now. I bet they want to take the new arms for a few spins around the block before deciding which one(s) make the best trade bait. The way they were talking up Lance Broadway made him sound like the Brandon McCarthy of 2008. :cool:

Vernam

caulfield12
01-29-2007, 08:54 PM
Or Matt Guerrier/Matt Ginter.