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View Full Version : Williams learning his lesson, hopefully not too late


caulfield12
01-28-2007, 04:58 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070127sox,1,6475702.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Grzegorz
01-28-2007, 05:03 AM
"Too late" to prevent exactly what from happening?

caulfield12
01-28-2007, 05:11 AM
From alienating Buehrle and Crede through his constant commentary on their situations about the unlikelihood of signing either one of them to extensions. Maybe he realizes that what worked in the past with Garland and Contreras (when he had six starters, leverage and coming off a WS championship) is not quite the same situation as dealing with one of the faces of the franchise in this particular market, that he needs to be more conciliatory in his public stance so as not to create a season-long sideshow/circus that keeps Vazquez, Crede, Uribe, Dye, Iguchi and Buehrle from being caught up in "what happens next year" stuff.

You'll notice he hasn't once mentioned Dye, and this is also the first time I have seen him mention Iguchi as well.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/232494,CST-SPT-sox28.article

Maybe an even better article that makes me feel SLIGHTLY better about this situation and that KW's not a complete egomaniac.

Grzegorz
01-28-2007, 05:18 AM
In the end money will decide this issue. The Chicago White Sox have a hedge in Fields with Crede and have stocked their minors with potential players to replace Buehrle.

The market is nuts; teams overpay often. KW has been astute to this point restocking his roster. He's just being honest when he states that he's not sure that he'll be able to resign one or both of them.

Do they have the money? Probably, but you have to ask yourself if it is a wise investment...

“Nobody spends somebody else's money as carefully as he spends his own. Nobody uses somebody else's resources as carefully as he uses his own." - Milton Friedman

caulfield12
01-28-2007, 05:21 AM
Didn't Milton Friedman just pass away this year?

I prefer a rising tide floats all boats...at least theoretically. Not trying to get into a supply-side economics discussion at 521 am though on a Sunday morning, lol.

Grzegorz
01-28-2007, 05:28 AM
Milton Friedman did pass away this year; truly a great Economist.

caulfield12
01-28-2007, 05:39 AM
When asked Friday to comment on Buehrle turning down a contract extension from the Sox last summer — believed to be three years in the $30 million to $35 million range — Williams refused to throw the classy left-hander under the bus.


“That’s Mark’s business and that’s our business,’’ Williams said. “I understand that I put the organization and myself in the position where I can take the bullet because it doesn’t make us look good if we don’t go out and say, ‘Hey, we offered this or we offered that.’


“But it does two things. It makes us look like we’re trying to cover our (butt), and from the common fan’s perspective, it makes him look like he’s greedy. I have no interest in that. I have no interest in making him look bad; I have no interest in making the organization look bad. But I’m willing to make myself look bad and take some bullets in order to protect him.’’


from dailyherald.com


My note: You know KW has to be frustrated. When he offered that money in '06, Buehrle was an All-Star and cruising. It would have made him the club's highest paid pitcher. Now, he's asked to pony up another $10-15 million and base that "faith" on Buehrle's shaky second half. This whole 3 year thing is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back, though.

Frontman
01-28-2007, 08:22 AM
KW seemed legitimately hurt over how it went down. Hell, I really feel that writer did Mark a diservice on how he got Mark's answer. I have a feeling Mark didn't come across the way HE wanted either.

Crede sounded more optomistic in his radio interview. While he didn't throw Boras under a bus, pretty damn close. He also said he sees the appeal of a long term deal, but he'd be happy to go year to year as well.

Good Lord, I hope this means a deal w/MB can be reached and soon. 162+ plus games of commentary about contract talks will totally suck.

Front

chaerulez
01-28-2007, 08:59 AM
I don't understand KW's line of thinking that Crede and Burhele are good as gone. I know he doesn't want to overpay. However, would paying Burhele 15 million a year really be overpaying anymore when people like Lilly, Meche and even Jeff Weaver got the contracts they did? Sometimes in an open market free agent system you have to overpay. The Bears had to overpay to get Moose, and while he's not a #1 WR, it's better than having Justin Gage out there. The Bulls had to overpay to get Ben Wallace. The Cubs overpaid to get Soriano, who will still help them win some games. I agree, money must be spent wisely but I don't think most Sox fans would mind if Crede and Burhele got a couple million dollars a year more than what is expected.

drftnaway
01-28-2007, 09:30 AM
I don't understand KW's line of thinking that Crede and Burhele are good as gone. I know he doesn't want to overpay. However, would paying Burhele 15 million a year really be overpaying anymore when people like Lilly, Meche and even Jeff Weaver got the contracts they did? Sometimes in an open market free agent system you have to overpay. The Bears had to overpay to get Moose, and while he's not a #1 WR, it's better than having Justin Gage out there. The Bulls had to overpay to get Ben Wallace. The Cubs overpaid to get Soriano, who will still help them win some games. I agree, money must be spent wisely but I don't think most Sox fans would mind if Crede and Burhele got a couple million dollars a year more than what is expected.

I cannot understand your reasoning at all. First, you ask would paying Mark $15M really be overpaying when someone like Lilly is payed $10M? Well maybe you should answer this. Is Ted Lilly being overpayed? If you believe he is then why would you compare the two? Makes no sense. You can make a case for absolutely everyone being overpaid because one guy is.
Second, you say teams SHOULD overpay. Where does this come from? Would you knowingly overpay for anything ... ever? It's easy to 'overpay' when it's coming out of someone else's pocket. The fact is, overpaying is what has turned the salary mess into what it currently is! Do you back that kind of thinking?

I don't suggest some teams don't overpay. They do. But there are 2 kinds of teams that do this. Those with so much money that they can absorb the eventual loss it will cause (like the Yankees) and those that bury themselves because they can't really afford it. The Sox aren't the yankees and they aren't stupid enough to bury themselves. For this I am extremely happy.

Go Sox ... Go Kenny!

drewcifer
01-28-2007, 09:32 AM
I cannot understand your reasoning at all. First, you ask would paying Mark $15M really be overpaying when someone like Lilly is payed $10M? Well maybe you should answer this. Is Ted Lilly being overpayed? If you believe he is then why would you compare the two? Makes no sense. You can make a case for absolutely everyone being overpaid because one guy is.
Second, you say teams SHOULD overpay. Where does this come from? Would you knowingly overpay for anything ... ever? It's easy to 'overpay' when it's coming out of someone else's pocket. The fact is, overpaying is what has turned the salary mess into what it currently is! Do you back that kind of thinking?

I don't suggest some teams don't overpay. They do. But there are 2 kinds of teams that do this. Those with so much money that they can absorb the eventual loss it will cause (like the Yankees) and those that bury themselves because they can't really afford it. The Sox aren't the yankees and they aren't stupid enough to bury themselves. For this I am extremely happy.

Go Sox ... Go Kenny!

Bravo.

cws05champ
01-28-2007, 09:48 AM
I know that KW has stockpiled this young pitching...which I hope works out, but Buerhle is the type of guy that not only gives you quality innings(look at the last 6 years and how consistent he has been), but also is a team leader, keeps the clubhouse loose and helps other pitcher along. This is the type of guy we need to keep as young minor league pitchers are very hard to predict effectiveness at the major league level. If they have to go 13-14 M/year for 5 yrs, they need to make it happen.

Crede I beleive will be traded after this season because of Josh fields presence....no linky, just my opinion.

Martinigirl
01-28-2007, 11:16 AM
There is a theory that basically says assume the worst, because if the best happens, you can always be pleasantly surprised, as opposed to having your heartbroke by unmet expectations. (Essentially it is pessimism). I really think this is how Kenny deals with fans. He tells us that we, most likely, won't be re-signing MB, just to get the fanbase used to the idea. It doesn't mean that it is a done deal, it just means that it is a possibility people should brace for.

Also, I think it says a lot about Kenny, as a person and GM, that he apologized not only to MB, but his parents. I really believe Kenny is a stand up guy, but he can put his foot in his mouth trying to be honest with the fans, sometimes at the expense of the feelings of the players. But the players know him well, and I would bet that after getting away from the reporters and microphones, and actually talking the Kenny, both men have a much better idea of the reality of the situation and feel better about the season ahead.

WhiteSox5187
01-28-2007, 11:23 AM
First off in regards to overpaying...spending ten million dollars on a guy like Ted Lilly is overpaying, Buerhle though actually deserves that kind of money. In my mind at least. And finally, people are forgetting about inflation. Thanks to Mr. Hendry we are looking at major inflation in the FA market. So, while maybe offering Buerhle fifteen mil a year was overpaying for him a year ago, now it could very well be the market price. $2 a gallon was overpaying for gas ten years ago, now it is the normal price. The market decides what the normal price of anything is and a consumer (or in this case a GM) can either decide to pay market price even if its pricier than what it was or decide to get something cheaper and not as proven (like a prospect that might turn out great or be a bust).

Now, money solves all problems in baseball. If the Sox give Buerhle a competitive offer, I believe he will sign. I think KW may have done himself a great deal of damage by taking such a hostile tone with the media, because perhaps that causes Buerhle to think "Well if they don't want me here, why bother?" A GM has to be a diplomat, and what KW has said of late is very undiplomatic. It worked last year because he was negotiating from a stronger position (six starting pitchers, WS title, etc). It may not work this year.

I don't think that ALL hope is lost. I don't think Mark is going to get any kind of extension offer in ST, but I think that if he has a good year and the Sox make the playoffs, he will get a very nice offer and I think he will probably resign. I think unless he totally bombs out this year, he will get an offer from the Sox, whether or not he takes it though, I can't really say.

oeo
01-28-2007, 11:28 AM
Buehrle is my favorite player, but I'm kind of angry that he even said anything to the public. If he thought there was a problem, I think he should have talked to Kenny privately. Now the media is going to run with this crap for the rest of the year.

At the same time, Kenny should have never said anything in the first place, either.

UserNameBlank
01-28-2007, 11:30 AM
If KW offered 3 years at 30-35 million as suspected in that article, that would have been a decent offer (if at 35mil) at the time. Figuring he has an option at 9.5mil, if that was say 10mil in '07, 12mil in '08, 13mil in 09 it would have been respectable.

However, if the Sox still think they can get him for near that now it is a joke. Not saying they do, but 13mil per year is the starting point right now.

jcw218
01-28-2007, 12:14 PM
There is a theory that basically says assume the worst, because if the best happens, you can always be pleasantly surprised, as opposed to having your heartbroke by unmet expectations. (Essentially it is pessimism).

Another way of looking at this is that you prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I would not call this being pessimistic but cautiously optimistic.