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PennStater98r
01-25-2007, 05:11 PM
I was talking about this with my brother, and I am under the belief that Ichiro only needs another two years of 200+ hits to be Hall material.

He disagrees with me. What do you guys think? Is he Hall material now? If not, what will it take? Will he even ever be Hall material in your opinions?

Jjav829
01-25-2007, 05:23 PM
Hall of Fame material with 1354 career hits? Not a chance. HOF material with 1754 hits? Not really.

If he puts up another 6 years like these first 6 years of his career, then I think he has a case. That puts him near 2800 hits. Add in his great defense, 450+ steals and a decade as one of the games premiere pure hitters and I think he has to be strongly considered.

PennStater98r
01-25-2007, 05:55 PM
I hear what you're saying JJ - but when do we consider his accomplishments in Japan along with his accomplishments in MLB?

Those 1300+ hits came after he hit nearly 1300 hits in seven full years of play (with a 130 game schedule) and two poor years - partial play, 3 MVPs while finishing in the "Best Nine" every year that he played.

Does that hold any weight with folks at all? What do you think of him being the only player in the history of baseball to reach 200 hits in his first six years of play?

Daver
01-25-2007, 05:59 PM
I hear what you're saying JJ - but when do we consider his accomplishments in Japan along with his accomplishments in MLB?

Those 1300+ hits came after he hit nearly 1300 hits in seven full years of play (with a 130 game schedule) and two poor years - partial play, 3 MVPs while finishing in the "Best Nine" every year that he played.

Does that hold any weight with folks at all? What do you think of him being the only player in the history of baseball to reach 200 hits in his first six years of play?

The majority of the voters for the baseball HOF will not consider his accomplishments in Japan at all, as well they shouldn't, it has nothing to do with the what he accomplishes here.

That being said, the people that have HOF votes can still kiss my ass.

PennStater98r
01-25-2007, 06:06 PM
That being said, the people that have HOF votes can still kiss my ass.

Amen.

Let me ask the question in another way. Is/was Ichiro a Hall of Fame caliber player?

balke
01-25-2007, 07:04 PM
Amen.

Let me ask the question in another way. Is/was Ichiro a Hall of Fame caliber player?


Yes.

A. Cavatica
01-25-2007, 09:17 PM
The majority of the voters for the baseball HOF will not consider his accomplishments in Japan at all, as well they shouldn't, it has nothing to do with the what he accomplishes here.

That being said, the people that have HOF votes can still kiss my ass.

I'm not so sure. Times are changing. Even though Ichiro wasn't the first Japanese big leaguer, he was the first to excel in MLB, and the first Japanese position player of merit. He opened the doors for players like Matsui, Iguchi, Johjima, and others to come. He's a marketing phenomenon for the league and he's always in the top vote-getters for the All-Star team. He's acknowledged as being one of the elite leadoff hitters and right fielders in the game. Plus he has the hit record, which even a traditionalist HOF voter can respect.

I think he could quit tomorrow and make the HOF. Time will tell.

EDIT: And this is coming from someone who's called him an overrated hitter, because he doesn't walk much and doesn't hit for power...

IndianWhiteSox
01-26-2007, 02:13 AM
The majority of the voters for the baseball HOF will not consider his accomplishments in Japan at all, as well they shouldn't, it has nothing to do with the what he accomplishes here.

That being said, the people that have HOF votes can still kiss my ass.

1.) IF Ichiro keeps doing his thing for the rest of this decade then yes he's in the hall based on popularity and stats

2.) Not to hijack this thread but can WSI organize a DAVER for Hall of Fame voter campaign?

Gregory Pratt
01-26-2007, 08:21 PM
Ichiro will certainly make the Hall.

MISoxfan
01-28-2007, 09:24 AM
No, I don't think he should be in the Hall of Fame if he retired today. If we're going to admit him based on a combination of what he did in Japan and in MLB are we then going to start admitting players who only played in Japan?

If the years there count for him then they have to count for everyone.

UserNameBlank
01-28-2007, 12:01 PM
Ichiro is a big name, so yes. Not that I think name is all that important, and it certainly shouldn't be voting criteria, but yeah Ichiro makes the Hall.

Besides, barring some major freak injury I think he will put up the type of numbers in MLB to get him in. As far as his accomplishments in Japan, I don't think they will matter until he gets around 2500 hits or so. Then people will make the (correct) assumption that had he been in MLB his entire career he would have collected well over 3000 hits making him a shoe-in.

WhiteSox5187
01-28-2007, 12:28 PM
I don't think he'll make the HOF. But I think that just based on talent, yes he's a HOF CALIBER player.

caulfield12
01-28-2007, 12:34 PM
I was talking about this with my brother, and I am under the belief that Ichiro only needs another two years of 200+ hits to be Hall material.

He disagrees with me. What do you guys think? Is he Hall material now? If not, what will it take? Will he even ever be Hall material in your opinions?


That's the funny thing about the HoF. If Ichiro was killed in a plane accident after two more All-Star seasons, he would make it.

Clemente would have made it regardless, but he is revered/adored because of the manner in which he died, flying personally to make sure earthquake supplies were delivered to Managua.

Puckett, he got into the Hall quickly, before some of the personal, off-field stuff started to come out and diminish his character. The same things happened here in KC when Derrick Thomas died...the fact that he had seven kids w/ five different women, etc.

Koufax didn't have a long career but a dominant one...I would say 3 seasons for Ichiro, to get through the end of the decade.

With Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire, Sosa all out (for now), it seems it would open it up for other players potentially. Bagwell will probably get in. Doubt that McGriff will make it, but his numbers LOOK impressive on paper.

Gregory Pratt
01-28-2007, 06:04 PM
Why shouldn't Ichiro's Japanese career be taken into consideration? Not necessarily the numbers, but it should certainly be taken into consideration that he was not able to come to America for a longtime but that when he did, he became perhaps the best outfielder in America and accomplished elite things. Get out of here with this "Japan doesn't matter!" nonsense.

Besides that, I think Ichiro has quality years left.

StepsInSC
01-28-2007, 07:42 PM
Why shouldn't Ichiro's Japanese career be taken into consideration? Not necessarily the numbers, but it should certainly be taken into consideration that he was not able to come to America for a longtime but that when he did, he became perhaps the best outfielder in America and accomplished elite things. Get out of here with this "Japan doesn't matter!" nonsense.

Besides that, I think Ichiro has quality years left.

I tend to agree. Nomo may have been the first but Ichiro's success paved the way for a lot more Japanese players to come to the MLB and help improve the available talent pool as a whole.

goofymsfan
01-28-2007, 07:50 PM
I believe he is worthy of the HoF. Some will consider his accomplishments from Japan, some won't.

This is the way I look at it. For the longest time the Japanese league was considered an inferior league, kind of the same way the Negro league teams were viewed. There has been some great talent that we never saw because of the view that it was an inferior league. Look at the ball players that many didn't get a chance to see play in the Majors that played in the Negro leagues, Cool Papa Bell, Josh Gibson, etc. The same can be said about the Japanese Leagues.

Now that the barrier has been knocked down and teams are scouting the Japanese leagues more, we are seeing more of the talent that is playing there.

I know comparing the Japanese and the Negro leagues is really the best, but I think it gives a little merrit to at least looking at his stats in Japan.

HomeFish
01-28-2007, 07:59 PM
Didn't Minoso get screwed for kind of the same reason? He wasn't in the Negro Leagues long enough to be a HoF there, and got into MLB too late to be a HoF there.