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View Full Version : Cliff Floyd Agrees To One-year Deal With Cubs


mikeybooyah
01-24-2007, 03:11 PM
CLIFF FLOYD AGREES TO ONE-YEAR DEAL WITH CUBS

The Chicago Cubs today announced that the club has agreed to terms with outfielder and first baseman Cliff Floyd on a one-year deal with a mutual option for the 2008 season.

JermaineDye05
01-24-2007, 03:23 PM
anyone have a guess as to how much Hendry is giving Floyd?

tstrike2000
01-24-2007, 03:24 PM
anyone have a guess as to how much Hendry is giving Floyd?

Most likely too much, just like everyone else. Unless, it's an incentive laden deal because of his injury problems, which is probably still too much.

JermaineDye05
01-24-2007, 03:30 PM
so with this move are the Cubs saying "Soriano is our starting CF"?

FedEx227
01-24-2007, 03:34 PM
so with this move are the Cubs saying "Soriano is our starting CF"?

YES :bandance::bandance::D: Here's to a great season of awful defensive play from their outfield.

Only for the Cubs can you go from a terrible 2B converted to the easiest OF position because you can't play defense well THEN get promoted to the toughest defensive position in the game, because you had a lot of assists last year.

JermaineDye05
01-24-2007, 03:36 PM
YES :bandance::bandance::D: Here's to a great season of awful defensive play from their outfield.

this should truly be fun to see not only will their outfield probably lead the NL in hr's but they might also lead the NL in Inside the park hr's allowed

FedEx227
01-24-2007, 03:39 PM
I'm just circling a Cubs @ Houston series on my calender. Soriano + Hill/Pole = Hilarity

palehozenychicty
01-24-2007, 03:40 PM
I cannot wait for the ugliness that will ensue at Wrigley this year. :D:

The Critic
01-24-2007, 03:42 PM
As I think was mentioned before in another Soriano thread, the CF in Wrigley is not all that big, so he'll probably be able to outrun many of his inevitable bad reads. His arm's much stronger than Juan Pierre's, so no more three-hop relay throws from center - although Jacques Jones will still provide plenty of those for our enjoyment.
Plus, that brick wall they have out there might give him the heebie-jeebies, though, even though it's covered with soft, cushy ivy.

JermaineDye05
01-24-2007, 03:53 PM
good point I remembered thanks to the score, that's a lot of strike outs for an outfield.

Johnnydogs
01-24-2007, 04:03 PM
In all honesty, strikeouts are overated. An out is an out and in some cases it is better than making contact (like avoiding the DP). I don't think the strikeouts will keep Soriano from doing his thing. Murton is a high OBP guy and they said that he will get the majority of the ABs so Floyd will essentially be a 4th OF/PH.

Mr.1Dog
01-24-2007, 04:10 PM
:rolleyes: :dtroll:

FedEx227
01-24-2007, 04:18 PM
In all honesty, strikeouts are overated. An out is an out and in some cases it is better than making contact (like avoiding the DP). I don't think the strikeouts will keep Soriano from doing his thing. Murton is a high OBP guy and they said that he will get the majority of the ABs so Floyd will essentially be a 4th OF/PH.

There's no way you can justify strikeouts being better than making contact.

With strikeouts you are out, plain and simple. Outside of passed balls, there's not much else that can happen.

However with "contact" you can get a fielding error, throwing error, bobble, fielder's choice, beating out a throw.

Mr.1Dog
01-24-2007, 04:20 PM
There's no way you can justify strikeouts being better than making contact.

With strikeouts you are out, plain and simple. Outside of passed balls, there's not much else that can happen.

However with "contact" you can get a fielding error, throwing error, bobble, fielder's choice, beating out a throw.

Johnny Dogs should remember Alex Gonzalez's bobble.:tongue:

Johnnydogs
01-24-2007, 04:37 PM
:happybdayThere's no way you can justify strikeouts being better than making contact.

With strikeouts you are out, plain and simple. Outside of passed balls, there's not much else that can happen.

However with "contact" you can get a fielding error, throwing error, bobble, fielder's choice, beating out a throw.

Strikeouts don't make a player less productive. I stand by my comment. A player can have high OBP and strikeout alot. Like I said, an out is an out. What's the difference in a strikeout, GO, AO? There isn't a difference. Soriano will strikeout more than 100 times but he will still probably hit 30 homeruns and be on base enough to steal bases.

Let's use a neutral player like Adam Dunn. He has a career .380 on base precentage despite striking out, at least, 160 times a year.

I just looked it up, and I see Thome had 147 SOs last year but also had a .416 OBP. I'll take it this year too!

FedEx227
01-24-2007, 04:45 PM
:happybday

Strikeouts don't make a player less productive. I stand by my comment. A player can have high OBP and strikeout alot. Like I said, an out is an out. What's the difference in a strikeout, GO, AO? There isn't a difference. Soriano will strikeout more than 100 times but he will still probably hit 30 homeruns and be on base enough to steal bases.

Let's use a neutral player like Adam Dunn. He has a career .380 on base precentage despite striking out, at least, 160 times a year.

I just looked it p and I see Thome had 147 SOs last year but also had a .416 OBP. I'll take it this year too!

No kidding, strikeouts don't hurt OBP all that much. Nick Swisher is a great example of that.

However, your earlier comment said that striking out is the same as making contact. No they aren't. The different between a K and a ground-out, is the definite K as opposed to the defensive pressure to make a good play. If you go up there and K you haven't challenge the team at all, you've done nothing to help your team.

Ground-outs and putting the ball in play puts pressure on the defense. Now the SS has to get to the ball, make a quick and accurate throw and the 1B has to make a catch. Anything can go wrong in that, your ball can take a weird hop and make it difficult for the SS to field, he can bobble it, throw it high, throw it in the dirt, the 1B can miss the catch, not be able to scoop it, etc.

I still can't see how you can say sitting in the batters box and then walking to the bench is the same as putting the ball in play. Yes, they are both outs. But one has a much better percentage of getting you on base, which is the real objective.

seventyseven
01-24-2007, 04:57 PM
Strikeouts don't make a player less productive. I stand by my comment. A player can have high OBP and strikeout alot. Like I said, an out is an out. What's the difference in a strikeout, GO, AO? There isn't a difference. Soriano will strikeout more than 100 times but he will still probably hit 30 homeruns and be on base enough to steal bases.

Let's use a neutral player like Adam Dunn. He has a career .380 on base precentage despite striking out, at least, 160 times a year.

I just looked it up, and I see Thome had 147 SOs last year but also had a .416 OBP. I'll take it this year too!

You're taking a fairly indefensible position, there.

Negative outcomes from strikeout = batter out (period).

Positive outcomes from strikeout = dropped third strike (but this is really a wild pitch/passed ball event, unrelated to the fact the batter struckout).

Negative outcomes from putting ball in play = out, double play, fielder's choice (depending on the situation).

Positive outcomes from putting ball in play = hit, error, fielder's choice (depending on the situation), sacrafice fly, sacrafice bunt, otherwise move runners over.

This really isn't a close one - strikeouts effectively only cause a negative event. Even if a positive event happens only 3/10 times when putting the ball in play, its better than effectively 0/10 times.

And no one debates that one can be a valuable player to his team, even with strikeouts (see Thome, Dunn, Ryan Howard, Soriano, A-Rod). But a player like Pujols who strikes out 50-60 times per season is even more valuable simply because he adds more positive results with an average at-bat.

Johnnydogs
01-24-2007, 05:04 PM
There's no disputing that putting the ball in play challenges the fielders however, my original point is that strikeouts are overrated and should not be used as a barometer for the effectiveness of a hitter. Some people view them as being somehow worse than outs that are fielded. I disagree.
More often than not, ML fielders are going to make the play. My basic point is, if there is going to be an out, strikeouts are no worse than any other out. You are countering with the argument that there is a possibility the runner may reach on a error. I see that as another issue altogether. A player can reach base on a SO too if the ball gets away from the catcher...

A player can contribute mightily while also being a high strikeout guy.

seventyseven
01-24-2007, 05:16 PM
My basic point is, if there is going to be an out, strikeouts are no worse than any other out. You are countering with the argument that there is a possibility the runner may reach on a error. I see that as another issue altogether. A player can reach base on a SO too if the ball gets away from the catcher...

I am also countering with the possibility that the batted ball can be a hit, a productive fielder's choice, a sacrafice fly, a sacrafice bunt, or otherwise move runner(s) over.

None of those things are possible if you don't hit the ball.

Johnnydogs
01-24-2007, 05:35 PM
I am also countering with the possibility that the batted ball can be a hit, a productive fielder's choice, a sacrafice fly, a sacrafice bunt, or otherwise move runner(s) over.

None of those things are possible if you don't hit the ball.

That really doesn't get to the heart of the issue; One can hit the ball on the ground (or in the air) and still not move a runner over or drive a runner in. I could also make the argument that I don't want Paulie hitting the ball on the ground with runners in scoring position because there is a good chance he will hit into a DP.

It should also be mentioned, although I thought it was understood, that high strikeouts can only be afforded to sluggers. A hitter with less power has to be more of a contact hitter/walker because his ABs are going to be significantly less productive. A team is willing to accept a lot of strikeouts, and the occasional runner left on base, from someone who is otherwise productive at the plate.

veeter
01-24-2007, 06:00 PM
Yes, no doubt a troll.

Brian26
01-24-2007, 08:35 PM
CLIFF FLOYD AGREES TO ONE-YEAR DEAL WITH CUBS

The Chicago Cubs today announced that the club has agreed to terms with outfielder and first baseman Cliff Floyd on a one-year deal with a mutual option for the 2008 season.

Is this a knee-jerk reaction to the Sox signing Erstad? I thought the Flubs were trying to unload Jacques Jones before they picked up Cliff Floyd.

IndianWhiteSox
01-25-2007, 01:13 AM
Is this a knee-jerk reaction to the Sox signing Erstad? I thought the Flubs were trying to unload Jacques Jones before they picked up Cliff Floyd.

Supposedly, they still want to deal away Jockstrap and Steve Stone said that in Wrigley Field, CF is the easiest position to play in the Outfield compared to LF and RF because of the wells in LF and RF. But Steve Stone knows best right?

thedudeabides
01-25-2007, 01:36 AM
There's no disputing that putting the ball in play challenges the fielders however, my original point is that strikeouts are overrated and should not be used as a barometer for the effectiveness of a hitter. Some people view them as being somehow worse than outs that are fielded. I disagree.
More often than not, ML fielders are going to make the play. My basic point is, if there is going to be an out, strikeouts are no worse than any other out. You are countering with the argument that there is a possibility the runner may reach on a error. I see that as another issue altogether. A player can reach base on a SO too if the ball gets away from the catcher...

A player can contribute mightily while also being a high strikeout guy.
The biggest argument against is moving runners over, or in. Strikouts can't do that.

MUsoxfan
01-25-2007, 01:42 AM
$1m Erstad >>>>> $3m Floyd

Johnnydogs
01-25-2007, 05:44 AM
Yes, no doubt a troll.

Troll? I love how someone with a defensible difference of opinion is called a troll. :?:

soxfan13
01-25-2007, 10:29 AM
Is this a knee-jerk reaction to the Sox signing Erstad? I thought the Flubs were trying to unload Jacques Jones before they picked up Cliff Floyd.

No they have been trying to sign Floyd all winter

MeteorsSox4367
01-25-2007, 10:46 AM
What happens first? The Cubs lose 40 games and fall out of the NL Central race or Floyd ends up on the DL?

Zisk77
01-25-2007, 11:25 AM
What happens first? The Cubs lose 40 games and fall out of the NL Central race or Floyd ends up on the DL?

Thats easy....Floyd to DL. It'll take the cubs at least 50 games to lose 40 games.:o: Floyd probably will be coming off his 2nd stint on the Dl by then. :tongue:

gobears1987
01-25-2007, 12:12 PM
so with this move are the Cubs saying "Soriano is our starting CF"?
OMG!!! I think I'd rather have Mack out there every day.

IndianWhiteSox
01-25-2007, 01:28 PM
OMG!!! I think I'd rather have Mack out there every day.


Cliff Floyd maybe better at CF than Sorry-ano

JermaineDye05
01-25-2007, 03:16 PM
Cliff Floyd maybe better at CF than Sorry-ano
true but from what I've heard they're planning on using Floyd to platoon with Murton.

santo=dorf
01-25-2007, 05:29 PM
:happybday

Strikeouts don't make a player less productive. I stand by my comment. A player can have high OBP and strikeout alot. Like I said, an out is an out. What's the difference in a strikeout, GO, AO? There isn't a difference. Soriano will strikeout more than 100 times but he will still probably hit 30 homeruns and be on base enough to steal bases.

Let's use a neutral player like Adam Dunn. He has a career .380 on base precentage despite striking out, at least, 160 times a year.

I just looked it up, and I see Thome had 147 SOs last year but also had a .416 OBP. I'll take it this year too!
I'm curious what your views are on a pitcher's strikeout total.

soxwon
01-25-2007, 05:44 PM
I cannot wait for the ugliness that will ensue at Wrigley this year. :D:


ever think they might be pretty good?

Sargeant79
01-25-2007, 06:41 PM
ever think they might be pretty good?

The team as a whole might be pretty good, especially in a weak division. But they will also probably have some of the worst outfield defense that any fan base has ever been subjected to.

oeo
01-25-2007, 08:11 PM
ever think they might be pretty good?

Not really...not even in the NL Central. Eventually they're going to need good pitching and defense when they're not hitting homeruns. There are going to be a lot of high-scoring games at Wrigley.

And they're a couple of injuries away from a complete blow up. The only real depth they have is in corner outfielders...yet they still don't have even one centerfielder. Not even ONE...Kenny got crap for not having a backup last year; Hendry doesn't even have one.

champagne030
01-25-2007, 09:00 PM
Not really...not even in the NL Central. Eventually they're going to need good pitching and defense when they're not hitting homeruns. There are going to be a lot of high-scoring games at Wrigley.

And they're a couple of injuries away from a complete blow up. The only real depth they have is in corner outfielders...yet they still don't have even one centerfielder. Not even ONE...Kenny got crap for not having a backup last year; Hendry doesn't even have one.

Also, their rotation goes 3 deep (at best), 2nd, 3rd and catcher are defensive liabilities. Who is going to close? Dumpster? Balsa? Without looking at team records, they might break them for HR's, K's, errors and blown saves.

Navarro's Talent
01-26-2007, 12:56 AM
Soriano in centerfield sounds like a nightmare for Cubs fans. There are going to be lots of funny moments coming from that outfield.

IndianWhiteSox
01-26-2007, 03:36 AM
"The CUBS lose 35-34 to the Cardinals in 15 innings as Soriano drives in 12 RBIS but also accounts for 6 Errors which led to 20 unearned runs. The play of the game comes on a fly-ball to CF that Soriano gets a good jump on but loses track in the sun overplaying the fly-ball leading to an inside the park Grand-Slam hit by Adam Kennedy none the less. Now live Soriano speaking at the post game press conference on Comcast with Gail Fisher."