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Lip Man 1
01-24-2007, 11:36 AM
Pretty hard to top this one. A deal that was very one sided towards the Sox and embarassed the Cubs at the same time.

January 25, 1983 -The Sox and General Manager Roland Hemond embarrass the Cubs by hinting that the Sox may select pitcher Fergie Jenkins after the Cubs leave him unprotected in the free agent draft. The Sox were entitled to compensation after losing outfielder Steve Kemp to the Yankees. The Cubs are forced to trade Scott Fletcher, Dick Tidrow, Randy Martz and Pat Tabler to the Sox for a promise not to take Jenkins who was looking for his 300th win, along with Steve Trout and Warren Brusstar. The Sox then trade Tabler for Jerry Dybzinski.

After it was all said and done, Cub G.M. Dallas Green was quoted as saying, to say Im relieved probably would be an understatement. (In his interview with White Sox Interactive, Fletcher talked about the deal and his reaction to it.)

http://i2.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/7c/4d/c1a2_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/SCOTT-FLETCHER-WHITE-SOX-58-SCORE-90_W0QQitemZ220056294249QQihZ012QQcategoryZ636QQrd Z1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting )http://dconti23.2itb.com/84nestle/153.jpg (http://cgi.ebay.com/1984-Topps-Nestle-DICK-TIDROW-153-WHITE-SOX-MINT_W0QQitemZ180078239065QQihZ008QQcategoryZ60514 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting)
Lip

WhiteSox5187
01-24-2007, 12:07 PM
I don't care what anyone else says, in my mind Dybzinski cost us the pennant.

Medford Bobby
01-24-2007, 12:10 PM
:smile: Those Nestle Topps baseball are pretty rare....cool!:cool:

DumpJerry
01-24-2007, 12:29 PM
Fletcher's cousin is the Cubs' Michael Barrett.

Lip Man 1
01-24-2007, 12:42 PM
WhiteSox:

The Dibber's 'gaff' was certainly a major mistake but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Sox couldn't hit for you know what throughout the entire series.

Considering in game #4 they stranded 11 baserunners, had 10 hits and three walks yet were shutout speaks volumes don't you think?

Lip

tebman
01-24-2007, 01:21 PM
The Dibber's 'gaff' was certainly a major mistake but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Sox couldn't hit for you know what throughout the entire series.

Considering in game #4 they stranded 11 baserunners, had 10 hits and three walks yet were shutout speaks volumes don't you think?

:yup:

The Sox forgot how to hit in that series. That game 4 haunts me to this day because we were there, standing on the scoreboard ramp with SRO tickets, watching Britt Burns pitch the game of his life.

Seeing Luzinski's at-bat in that final inning still gets my blood pressure up -- he watched three pitches go by and sat down quietly. I think I was at risk of tearing the ramp off the scoreboard at that point. :cuss:

DumpJerry
01-24-2007, 01:38 PM
:yup:

The Sox forgot how to hit in that series. That game 4 haunts me to this day because we were there, standing on the scoreboard ramp with SRO tickets, watching Britt Burns pitch the game of his life.

Seeing Luzinski's at-bat in that final inning still gets my blood pressure up -- he watched three pitches go by and sat down quietly. I think I was at risk of tearing the ramp off the scoreboard at that point. :cuss:
I was in apartment in St. Paul, MN watching the game. Afterwards, my cheeks made Niagra Falls look like a small trickle of water by comparison.:whiner:

tebman
01-24-2007, 01:53 PM
Fletcher's cousin is the Cubs' Michael Barrett.

:o: You don't say! I hope Fletcher doesn't lay claim to Barrett's boxing skill.

I was in apartment in St. Paul, MN watching the game. Afterwards, my cheeks made Niagra Falls look like a small trickle of water by comparison.:whiner:
I know what you mean. I think I aged 20 years after that game. It was as if that was the last hurrah as the Sox went into a decline that hit bottom when they came [thisclose] to moving to Florida.

But that was yesterday (cue dramatic music) ...now we can speak with straight faces about championship probabilities and compare notes on the World Series games. It's all good.

Brian26
01-24-2007, 09:17 PM
Pretty hard to top this one. A deal that was very one sided towards the Sox and embarassed the Cubs at the same time.

January 25, 1983 -The Sox and General Manager Roland Hemond embarrass the Cubs by hinting that the Sox may select pitcher Fergie Jenkins after the Cubs leave him unprotected in the free agent draft. The Sox were entitled to compensation after losing outfielder Steve Kemp to the Yankees. The Cubs are forced to trade Scott Fletcher, Dick Tidrow, Randy Martz and Pat Tabler to the Sox for a promise not to take Jenkins who was looking for his 300th win, along with Steve Trout and Warren Brusstar. The Sox then trade Tabler for Jerry Dybzinski.

After it was all said and done, Cub G.M. Dallas Green was quoted as saying, to say Im relieved probably would be an understatement. (In his interview with White Sox Interactive, Fletcher talked about the deal and his reaction to it.)

My recollection of this trade comes mostly from the "Who's On Third" book by Lindberg that came out about a year later. There's a quote in there from Piersall regarding the trade that I never understood. He was quoted as saying, "nobody in the White Sox organization knows how to put a gun to someone's head." Lindberg said this was the reason Piersall was fired from Sportsvision.

What is confusing is that everyone seemed to think the Sox got by far the better end of the deal, but Piersall seemed to think the Sox could have asked for a lot more. Did this trade look more lopsided 24 years ago towards the Sox (and was Piersall just completely crazy), or did Piersall have a point?

History seems to have dulled the trade a little because Tabler never really panned out, and Martz never came back from the injury. I forget how highly touted Tabler was as a prospect and how severe Martz' injury was diagnosed before the trade.

Anyway- it's a great topic. Good job once again, Mark.

Lip Man 1
01-24-2007, 10:19 PM
Brian:

You're a bit confused on this.

Piersall himself said that he criticized having both Fletcher AND Walker in the starting line up. Especially Walker who he felt was not a good fielding first baseman. (See his interview with WSI)

Piersall also came down hard on Carlton Fisk that same evening on the postgame show (after the Sox blew a 3-0 1st inning lead and lost 5-3 opening night.)

I don't know if he actually made that 'gun to the head' comment but he did make the above two and that's what got him fired.

Also regarding Randy Martz. I never heard anything about him getting hurt. I do know that the Sox going into spring training had SEVEN guys who had won in double figures in the big leagues on the roster. Both Martz and Mura were squeezed out because Hoyt, Dotson, Bannister, Koosman and Burns (when he came off the injured list--which bumped Mura out) were simply better.

He did start the first of a make up DH in Detroit in August as I recall. That was his only start of the season.

Tabler dropped off the face of the Earth after his first month in Cleveland. Fletcher and Tidrow were solid performers by year's end and Dybzinski settled down a shaky infield until Scooter found his legs. This deal remains one sided in the Sox favor in my book.

Lip

Brian26
01-24-2007, 11:06 PM
Brian:

You're a bit confused on this.

I was thinking of Steve Mura regarding the injury- and not Randy Martz. You're correct.

The Piersall quote is directly from Lindberg's book. I dug it out of my closet just to check myself. It confused me 20 years ago and it still seems strange. Piersall said "the Sox don't know how to put a gun to someone's head", as if they could have received more in the trade. I always took that as if they got a mediocre return when they really could have asked for a lot more.

One other aside: Tidrow, Martz, Tabler, and Dybzinski were all out of baseball by '85. Fletcher was around with Texas and back to the White Sox until '92. Trout and Brusstar actually played a decent part in the '84 NL East title for the north side, and I think Trout was with them until around '87, so you could argue that, in hindsight, the trade really wasn't all that lopsided.

Lip Man 1
01-25-2007, 01:50 PM
And Trout had one good season with the Cubs in all that time.

Lip

SBSoxFan
01-25-2007, 02:12 PM
WhiteSox:

The Dibber's 'gaff' was certainly a major mistake but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Sox couldn't hit for you know what throughout the entire series.

Considering in game #4 they stranded 11 baserunners, had 10 hits and three walks yet were shutout speaks volumes don't you think?

Lip

Yes, but I think the consensus was that Hoyt would shut them down again in game 5, and the Sox would be going to the world series.

flo-B-flo
01-26-2007, 01:38 PM
Brian:

You're a bit confused on this.

Piersall himself said that he criticized having both Fletcher AND Walker in the starting line up. Especially Walker who he felt was not a good fielding first baseman. (See his interview with WSI)

Piersall also came down hard on Carlton Fisk that same evening on the postgame show (after the Sox blew a 3-0 1st inning lead and lost 5-3 opening night.)

I don't know if he actually made that 'gun to the head' comment but he did make the above two and that's what got him fired.

Also regarding Randy Martz. I never heard anything about him getting hurt. I do know that the Sox going into spring training had SEVEN guys who had won in double figures in the big leagues on the roster. Both Martz and Mura were squeezed out because Hoyt, Dotson, Bannister, Koosman and Burns (when he came off the injured list--which bumped Mura out) were simply better.

He did start the first of a make up DH in Detroit in August as I recall. That was his only start of the season.

Tabler dropped off the face of the Earth after his first month in Cleveland. Fletcher and Tidrow were solid performers by year's end and Dybzinski settled down a shaky infield until Scooter found his legs. This deal remains one sided in the Sox favor in my book.

Lip Piersall was pretty much shooting arrows in all directions at this time. It was as if he was trying to get canned. After the above comments, I knew he was a goner.......