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HootieMcBoob
07-31-2001, 05:05 PM
ESPN Classic is playing a documentary of it at 6 PM CT if any one wants to watch it. Also, at ESPN.com, there are articles about Joe Jackson, the fix, and other cool stuff. I thought this was cool and I wrote my 10 page research paper on it for English class. Anyway - Here's an article why Shoeless Joe should NOT be in the HOF.

http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1232950.html

IA_soxfan
07-31-2001, 05:09 PM
That article raises some good points, but, we are talking about the baseball hall of fame, not the good person hall of fame. Shoeless Joe was hall of fame material, so was Pete Rose, and they are both getting screwed.

Mathew
07-31-2001, 05:26 PM
I've honestly never read anything that suggested Joe Jackson shouldn't be forgiven. It was refreshing, everyone has there own opinions but I feel that way too. I would have more compasion for Jackson who did pay the price of having the greatest game and thing he had taken away for the rest of his life. I don't think it matters if he gets in or not. But I have more sympathy for him if he admitted he did wrong and tried to undo his wrong. Rose I don't feel for. He cheated and won't admit he was wrong to do so and should. I don't care what team he bet on, all he has to do is admit he was wrong and get himself into the hall. Most people seem to favor Rose and Jackson because it is always shown in good light, but I think that to deserve forgiveness you must admit wrong.

KingXerxes
07-31-2001, 05:38 PM
One day - while hopelessly bored at work - I started surfing through Detroit area telephone listings for anybody with the last name Cicotte (because I knew Ed Cicotte was from the Detroit area - as a matter of fact, his family was one of the founding members of Fort Detroit which predated the city itself). There were more than a few listing (I guess it's a pretty common French surname) so I deceided to call one. Well a very old lady answers on about the tenth ring, and I sheepishly asked her if she was any relation to Ed Cicotte who used to pitch in the major leagues. She was the wife of his late nephew, and as it turns out, her son also pitched in the major leagues (I looked it up and it's true). Well I talked to her for about an hour, and then she gave me the number of her brother-in-law who was Ed Cicotte's Godchild (he was about 95 years old). I called him and we talked for 2 hours about his uncle. It was one of the coolest things I've ever done. He talked about watching his uncle pitch for the Red Sox in Bennett Park (the field which pre-dated Tiger Stadium), and how his uncle returned home after the 1920 season and got a job at Ford (a pretty good one from what I understand) and lived comfortably outside of Detroit - doing odd little jobs in his golden years after he retired from Ford. I asked the nephew if his uncle ever mentioned anything about the 1919 fix, and the nephew responded that he never asked his uncle about it - and his uncle never offered up any info. I guess in a sad way it underscores the fact that these guys were all guilty. Too bad. You could still almost hear the regret in Ed Cicotte's nephew's voice. Oh well I guess that's why it's so important to think things through - those guys didn't and they'll continue paying for it.

Mathew
07-31-2001, 05:46 PM
That's awesome King.

I've met a few old hockey players and I once had a two hour long conversation with Johnny Bower (toronto Maple Leafs last goalie to win Stanley) it was the most nostalgic and striking conversation I've ever had. I'm glad I now have those same stories he told me to pass on to future generations and perhaps will have ny own one day as well.

Mathew
07-31-2001, 05:47 PM
My only question is what the hell do you do for work where they let you spend 3 hrs on the phone to Detroit?

KingXerxes
07-31-2001, 05:52 PM
I close the office door, and for all they know I'm striking a big financing deal with a German bank.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 06:40 PM
I close the office door, and for all they know I'm striking a big financing deal with a German bank.

:hawk
I did the same thing when I was GM with the Sox, I would be on the phone for hours at a time just talking to baseball legends.

Iguana775
07-31-2001, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by IA_soxfan
That article raises some good points, but, we are talking about the baseball hall of fame, not the good person hall of fame. Shoeless Joe was hall of fame material, so was Pete Rose, and they are both getting screwed.

CAN I GET A HELL YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they should be in the hall but noooooooooooo, MLB has to be a major a$$ about it. *****, strawberry gets how many chances?????? bull*****!!!!!!!!!