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View Full Version : Crede worth Utley money?


MaggPipes
01-21-2007, 01:04 PM
Seven Years $85 million for Chase Utley today. He is 28 so roughly the same age as Joe, I know Joe has the back risks, but I for one (and I am sure there are many, many others) would like to keep this young 3B that will be a great representative of the franchise. I mean, with this situation I get the feeling like I did when we lost Ventura, and I just think Crede is a guy that we should go after to keep. I know he has Boras as an agent, but has anyone heard the numbers he is thinking for Joe?

caulfield12
01-21-2007, 01:18 PM
The only difference is the White Sox didn't have a capable replacement in Snopek or Norton at that time.

We have Fields now. He might not be as good as either Ventura or Joe, but he's better than Snopek and Norton. Crede has a history of minor back problems. And we're not at the point of a total rebuild yet, like JR wanted after 97.

MisterB
01-21-2007, 01:27 PM
Over the last 2 seasons, Utley has averaged .300/.378/.533, 30 hr, 40 2b, 104 rbi, & 112 runs. Joe hasn't come close to those kind of numbers so no, I don't think he'll be getting Utley type money. (Not that Boras won't ask for it.)

santo=dorf
01-21-2007, 01:34 PM
Are you serious?

Player 1: .287/.327/.506, 23 HR, 74 RBI's Mostly 1st or 2nd in the order
Player 2: .283/.323/.506, 30 HR, 94 RBI's Mostly 6th or 7th in the order

Both players played better than gold glove caliber defense at their respective position, but player 2 was in a better offensive lineup. Player 1 had the disadvantage in RBI opportunities because of his position in the lineup. Their lines are almost identical.

How come nobody talked contracts like this after Uribe's 2004 season? (Player 1) Perhaps it was due to him coming from another organization? :?:

MISoxfan
01-21-2007, 01:49 PM
I'd like to see Uribe's splits of the '04 season, I think they would make Crede's streaky hitting look consistant.

ondafarm
01-21-2007, 05:21 PM
Crede gets Utley style money if he demonstrates that his back is okay.

caulfield12
01-21-2007, 05:34 PM
I'd like to see Uribe's splits of the '04 season, I think they would make Crede's streaky hitting look consistant.

All I remember is that he was around .400 after six weeks, that huge game in Montreal that Willie Harris screwed up (after a disastrous Munoz start) and then he rallied at the end of the season. He was probably my favorite player that season.

If he hits .275 with 25-30 homers and 80-90 RBI's and the same level of defense, he's "home free."

StillMissOzzie
01-21-2007, 05:34 PM
IMHO, Utley isn't worth Utley money. I don't understand why the Phillies decided to forsake all three years of arbitration eligibility for this deal.

SMO
:?:

Domeshot17
01-21-2007, 05:44 PM
NOT A CHANCE

Chase Utley is one of the top 2 or 3 Offensive AND Defensive 2b IN BASEBALL

Crede may be in the top 3 defensively, but he is more in the top 8 Offensively (and thats only been shown once). Crede is worth 8-10 a year for 3-4 years. In this market, maybe 11.5 a year, but nothing more. Last year he would be worth about 6.5-7 a year.

ILuvThatDuck
01-21-2007, 06:01 PM
NOT A CHANCE

Chase Utley is one of the top 2 or 3 Offensive AND Defensive 2b IN BASEBALL

Crede may be in the top 3 defensively, but he is more in the top 8 Offensively (and thats only been shown once). Crede is worth 8-10 a year for 3-4 years. In this market, maybe 11.5 a year, but nothing more. Last year he would be worth about 6.5-7 a year.

Agreed.

There are only 2 or 3 2cnd baseman that can do what Utley does.
Crede may be one of the better defensive 3rd baseman, but there are 8-10 players at that posistion that do what he does offensively

BeefyD
01-21-2007, 06:36 PM
For one thing, this has been CRAAAAAZY contract time, hasn't it??? I can't believe the money being shelled out for little-above-average players..

Secondly, I think Crede opting OUT of back surgery had a big effect on his one-year deal. It's a way of the Sox covering themselves in case that was a bad decision on Crede's part. If it happens to be the right decision, Crede will be rewarded.

caulfield12
01-21-2007, 06:43 PM
IMO, it would be a much bigger risk to sign Joe Crede long-term (after any type of back surgery, the results of which would be very uncertain)...the White Sox are correct to wait it out another year, and they have added leverage with the progress of Fields.

If Joe really wants to stay (like Konerko and Garland and Jose), then he'll ask his agent to work it out. If he is more interested in exploring his options, I don't think the White Sox will make an effort to match anything that could be offered at the top tier of the market. Boras has to be telling him he could get "X" amount of money with Team A, B or C.

EMachine10
01-21-2007, 06:56 PM
Love Joe, but no way he gets that money. Not with Fields lurking and a suspect back. He's good, but not Utley good.

esbrechtel
01-21-2007, 08:04 PM
only if he breaks the hit streak record :redneck
in all honesty i would love the sox to keep joe but i dont think its going to happen...

TaylorStSox
01-21-2007, 08:24 PM
I might be the biggest Joe Crede fan there is, but no ****in way!!!

jabrch
01-21-2007, 09:40 PM
There's a difference between a 2B and a 3B. If Crede is healthy, he's going to get big money. The problem with the Utley deal is that they are doing it 3 years before he was scheduled to hit FA. That's early to take such a big risk, even for a guy who has done what he has.

mshake10
01-21-2007, 10:19 PM
Utley had just two great years. If Crede can stay healthy and have another career year, then yes he would deserve it.

California Sox
01-21-2007, 10:31 PM
The only difference is the White Sox didn't have a capable replacement in Snopek or Norton at that time.

We have Fields now. He might not be as good as either Ventura or Joe, but he's better than Snopek and Norton. Crede has a history of minor back problems. And we're not at the point of a total rebuild yet, like JR wanted after 97.

The Sox thought highly of Snopek and Norton at the time, turned out they were wrong. I'm not in favor of giving Crede Utley money because I know it will come out of another area, but there would be significant risk letting him go. Fields is a good-looking player, but he's not a can't miss type. Like with BA, I'm a little concerned about strikeouts.

MisterB
01-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Utley had just two great years. If Crede can stay healthy and have another career year, then yes he would deserve it.

Crede has had just one good year. He'd have to step it up quite a bit to deserve $12M/year.

RadioheadRocks
01-21-2007, 10:51 PM
IMHO, Utley isn't worth Utley money. I don't understand why the Phillies decided to forsake all three years of arbitration eligibility for this deal.

SMO
:?:



Bingo!!!

ondafarm
01-21-2007, 11:09 PM
Let's see how he does this coming season and how his back holds out.

jabrch
01-22-2007, 12:31 AM
Let's see how he does this coming season and how his back holds out.

And how Fields develops. If Josh develops, then Crede becomes more tradeable and less required.

WhiteSox5187
01-22-2007, 08:21 AM
I don't think he's worth twelve million, and I would NEVER give anyone a 7 year deal, especially a guy with a bad back. Someone said let's see how he does this year, I couldn't agree more. If he plays like he did last year and avoids extended periods on the DL, I'd say offer him three or four year deal at about $11 million. It's around what Utley is making, but so far I believe that Utley has put up better numbers.

caulfield12
01-22-2007, 08:34 AM
I don't think he's worth twelve million, and I would NEVER give anyone a 7 year deal, especially a guy with a bad back. Someone said let's see how he does this year, I couldn't agree more. If he plays like he did last year and avoids extended periods on the DL, I'd say offer him three or four year deal at about $11 million. It's around what Utley is making, but so far I believe that Utley has put up better numbers.

It's going to be interesting to see if agents argue that NL numbers are bloated and AL numbers are more accurate, because the talent/quality pitching/depth is better in the AL, despite the Cardinals' win. I'm not sure Crede would put up Utley-esque numbers, but he would certainly have more RBI's in the NL due to the weaker pitching. Freddy Garcia becomes an ace in the NL, or El Duque becomes a legit starter again, even a #2 in NY while Pedro is on the shelf.

It's like the 60's and most of the 70's, when the NL dominated. But in reverse.

mshake10
01-22-2007, 10:04 AM
I say a three-year deal at the same annual rate, with numerous option years that kick in based on plate appearences.

caulfield12
01-22-2007, 04:17 PM
Crede would never sign that we can get guaranteed money from almost any team in baseball. Would you? There's less risk for him and his family, he would almost be delusional to take such a deal, and the Player's Association would be aghast. What, a contract based on performance? How dare they!

itsnotrequired
01-22-2007, 04:21 PM
Crede would never sign that we can get guaranteed money from almost any team in baseball. Would you? There's less risk for him and his family, he would almost be delusional to take such a deal, and the Player's Association would be aghast. What, a contract based on performance? How dare they!

:?:

Crede will not be getting any guaranteed money from any other teams until after 2008 (or if he is traded). Crede got a one year deal for 2007 and will likely get another one year deal for 2008. If the dollars were right, I don't see why he wouldn't sign a three year contract at this point. He would only be sacrificing a year in terms of free agency and has a guaranteed three year deal vs. a one year deal. For a guy who might have larger back problems then we believe, this wouldn't be a bad move for him.

The real question is would the Sox offer such a deal to him right now. I would guess no. They would have more to lose than Crede.