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View Full Version : Twins' projected rotation as of now


caulfield12
01-21-2007, 10:22 AM
The Twins' 2007 rotation now could consist of Johan Santana, Ortiz, Sidney Ponson, Carlos Silva and Boof Bonser. The Twins signed Ponson to a minor league deal earlier this month.

www.startribune.com (http://www.startribune.com)

Contingent upon Ortiz passing physical. He had an atrocious year last season in Washington.

They have Garza and Scott Baker probably beginning in AAA unless one of the vets falters, and all three of them could self-destruct (Silva, Ponson, Ortiz). Or Ortiz could win 20, learning at the side of Santana, and win the Cy Young, lol.

hose
01-21-2007, 10:29 AM
We'll just see how good that Twinkie bullpen is?:cool:

ondafarm
01-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Minnesota is a great place to pitch. You've got that turf and a decent infield behind you. The outfield plays deep so that very few extra base hits get through. Lots of foul ground means quite a few pop outs and Mauer generally keeps running to a minimum. And the biggest factor is you have a lousy hitting background which probably depresses batting averages 30 points in the first game of series for the road team.

caulfield12
01-21-2007, 10:49 AM
We'll just see how good that Twinkie bullpen is?:cool:


They added kid late in the season that was impressive, his name was Glenn Perkins I think.

He was also thought to be in contention for the 5th starter's spot. Probably will take on Guerrier for last spot in the pen.

DumpJerry
01-21-2007, 12:02 PM
They have Garza and Scott Baker probably beginning in AAA unless one of the vets falters, and all three of them could self-destruct (Silva, Ponson, Ortiz). Or Ortiz could win 20, learning at the side of Santana, and win the Cy Young, lol.
"If" "or" "unless" can be the biggest words in the English language.

If the Sox win their games, the other teams won't matter.

83 ALROY
01-29-2007, 03:36 PM
I'm thrilled that the Twins signed Ponson.
This is the same idiot who plunked back to back Sox batters, while the bases were loaded, after the Sox took an enourmous lead over the Cardinals.
This guy spends his off seasons in jail.
I think an old rivalry could flare up again.

Vernam
01-29-2007, 07:55 PM
I've learned my lesson about making fun of Boof Bonser. Or the Twins in general, for that matter. :(:

But if we can't beat Minnesota, we'll have a hell of a time keeping up with Detroit. Without our dominance of the Tigers, 2006 would've been a full-blown disaster, and I'm not counting on it happening again. The disaster or the dominance . . .

Vernam

santo=dorf
01-29-2007, 08:01 PM
Are they still hot after Bruce Chen too?

Hagan
01-29-2007, 08:33 PM
The twins rotation needs some help. I am pretty sure russ ortiz wont be in the starting 5 on opening day and ponson might not be either. It will probably be Santana, Bosner, Silva, Garza, and then either baker or perkins as their number 5. Also JD Durbin could do well this spring and have a shot at the starting 5. While they are not in good shape they have better options than ortiz or the golden boy of aruba.
(http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=429716)

FedEx227
01-29-2007, 10:25 PM
They added kid late in the season that was impressive, his name was Glenn Perkins I think.


It was either Perker or Neshnek both were VERY impressive. Neshnek most may remember as having that horribly awkward delivery.

SBSoxFan
01-29-2007, 11:30 PM
I've learned my lesson about making fun of Boof Bonser. Or the Twins in general, for that matter. :(:

But if we can't beat Minnesota, we'll have a hell of a time keeping up with Detroit. Without our dominance of the Tigers, 2006 would've been a full-blown disaster, and I'm not counting on it happening again. The disaster or the dominance . . .

Vernam

I'm looking for Detroit to struggle next year. We saw first hand how tough it was on the Sox last year, let's see how Detroit plays with a target on their back. I see no reason for them to fair better than the Sox under those circumstances.

DSpivack
01-30-2007, 01:54 AM
It was either Perker or Neshnek both were VERY impressive. Neshnek most may remember as having that horribly awkward delivery.

Probably Perkins; Neshek is a reliever.

caulfield12
01-30-2007, 04:07 AM
Are they still hot after Bruce Chen too?

I think they want both "sucky" Ortizes, as they're working to get Russ too. Talk about a career that went downhill on the express lanes.

Jurr
01-30-2007, 06:55 AM
I think they want both "sucky" Ortizes, as they're working to get Russ too. Talk about a career that went downhill on the express lanes.
He was taken from the nice, safe, cushy domain of Leo Mazzone's tutelage, and never rebounded.

caulfield12
01-30-2007, 07:17 AM
Bedard definitely made huge progress with Mazzone. If the Orioles put him on the market, he might be the second most coveted lefty after Santana in the American League.

Benson stayed about the same, Chen and Ortiz were disasters, Cabrera did show some signs of progress in the 2nd half.

Jaret Wright's back with Mazzone. And he has a lot of work to do with Loewen and H. Penn, their two best pitching prospects. But they have the makings of a good rotation if Cabrera and Bedard can get better and better each year (only to be "stolen" by Cashman or Epstein).

I also think Chris Ray did very well for a rookie closer, minus the Ross Gload grand salami.

White Sox Randy
01-30-2007, 10:03 AM
I'm not gonna laugh at the Twins rotation. Knowing them it could end up being better than the Sox rotation.

Ofcourse, I'm glad that Liriano and Radke are gone.

But, Santana could be the best in baseball. Silva has had some success and that could return easily. Garza should be really good this year.

And somehow with the Twins magic, it wouldn't surprise me if they got some good results out of a couple of Ponson/Ortiz/Baker or Perkins. I would bet most on Baker and Ponson.

And, their bullpen is awesome so that should help. I still think the Sox will finish ahead of them though.

oeo
01-30-2007, 10:14 AM
I'm not gonna laugh at the Twins rotation. Knowing them it could end up being better than the Sox rotation.

Ofcourse, I'm glad that Liriano and Radke are gone.

But, Santana could be the best in baseball. Silva has had some success and that could return easily. Garza should be really good this year.

And somehow with the Twins magic, it wouldn't surprise me if they got some good results out of a couple of Ponson/Ortiz/Baker or Perkins. I would bet most on Baker and Ponson.

And, their bullpen is awesome so that should help. I still think the Sox will finish ahead of them though.

I find it quite comical that you have more confidence in the Twins rotation, which contains guys such as Ponson, Ortiz, and Silva; not to mention young guys like Bonser, Garza, and Baker. The Twins had a lot of things fall into place last year; I doubt they come even close to 95 wins.

And, their bullpen is awesome? They were awesome last year, we'll see if they're awesome this year. Their dominating lefty (Reyes) had a more out-of-the-ordinary year than both Cotts and Politte and (I could add about 10 more guys) in 2005, combined. I highly doubt a guy who has been mediocre to bad his entire eight year career, just suddenly dominates.

UserNameBlank
01-30-2007, 02:48 PM
That sucky Twins staff has three major problems:
1. Sox offense
2. Indians offense
3. Tigers offense

Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson will be replaced within two months of play. We're not talking about anyone with potential here; we are talking about Sidney Ponson and Ramon Ortiz. I also think Baker and Silva are going to get lit up like a Christmas tree and Bonser will be unreliable in big games.

I think I'm the only one who predicted this back in the AL Central predictions thread, but Minny finishes last next year. EVERY team in the Central has at least gotten better somewhere except Minnesota. A team can only rely on magical seasons from medicore players for so long before they find themselves in the cellar. 2005 was a better indication of what kind of team they are. 2006 was a fluke and they will get STOMPED.

Save McCuddy's
01-30-2007, 03:01 PM
don't count on them getting stomped -- they're young almost everywhere and Mauer is the best player in the AL in my opinion. They don't give games away and that damn dome is an incredible home ballpark.

83 -79 for them with some tough losses -- hopefully at our hands more often than not.

caulfield12
01-30-2007, 03:11 PM
As long as Mauer, Cuddyer and Morneau stay healthy, the bullpen approximates last year and Kubel continues to progress, they will be at least a .500 team, if not a WC contender.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-30-2007, 03:23 PM
We have beaten Detroit over the past few years (12-7 in '06; 14-5 in '05) and I agree they will regress somewhat this season (though Sheffield should help them). They were pretty lucky as far as injuries go (lack of injuries) and I think their young staff will show some wear after all of the extra postseason innings.

Each starter set a career high in innings pitched except Maroth who was injured last season:

Verlander: 2005 Innings Pitched 130; 2006 207 2/3
Bonderman: 2005 IP 189; 2006 IP 234 1/3
Rogers: Previous high in 1998 (238 2/3); 2006 IP 227
Robertson: 2005 IP 196 2/3; 2006 IP 224 1/3

The Twins always seem to find good pitching. Liriano and Radke are major losses and the replacements most likely perform at a lower rate, but I still think they will end up with good numbers. Their bullpen is tough as well and does a good job keeping inherited runners from scoring and holding onto the slim leads (due to their below average offense).

Here is some highlights from their 2006 season (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxw1EFcm3vw). :(:

We need to improve on our 9-10 record vs. the Twins in 2006 (11-5 in 2005 :bandance: ). Losing Liriano and Radke gives us an excellent chance to do that though I still think Bosner and Garza will be tough. I don't expect much out of Ramon Ortiz who sucked in the NL in an extreme pitchers park / division (RFK / NL East).

White Sox Randy
01-31-2007, 10:43 AM
That sucky Twins staff has three major problems:
1. Sox offense
2. Indians offense
3. Tigers offense

Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson will be replaced within two months of play. We're not talking about anyone with potential here; we are talking about Sidney Ponson and Ramon Ortiz. I also think Baker and Silva are going to get lit up like a Christmas tree and Bonser will be unreliable in big games.

I think I'm the only one who predicted this back in the AL Central predictions thread, but Minny finishes last next year. EVERY team in the Central has at least gotten better somewhere except Minnesota. A team can only rely on magical seasons from medicore players for so long before they find themselves in the cellar. 2005 was a better indication of what kind of team they are. 2006 was a fluke and they will get STOMPED.

You sound like all the baseball fans talking about the White Sox after 2005 - "they were lucky- they'll suck this year."

The Twins organization is not lucky- they're good. They will not finish last.

Think about this: They'll probably win 80% of Santana's starts. Garza, Silva, Bonser and Ponson aren't too far behind the Sox 3,4 and 5 starters.Don't forget Floyd is the Sox fifth starter. And, their bullpen will be atleast as good as the Sox. Nathan is without a doubt one of the best and most reliable closers in the game.

UserNameBlank
01-31-2007, 11:32 AM
You sound like all the baseball fans talking about the White Sox after 2005 - "they were lucky- they'll suck this year."

The Twins organization is not lucky- they're good. They will not finish last.

Think about this: They'll probably win 80% of Santana's starts. Garza, Silva, Bonser and Ponson aren't too far behind the Sox 3,4 and 5 starters.Don't forget Floyd is the Sox fifth starter. And, their bullpen will be atleast as good as the Sox. Nathan is without a doubt one of the best and most reliable closers in the game.

Are you kidding me? Two of Garza, Silva, Bonser, and Ponson being compared to Garland and Vazquez? Get real. The Sox fifth starter - even if he sucks - will not suck any worse than Silva or Ponson.

The Twins ARE lucky. They are lucky to get the type of production that they did out of Cuddyer, Punto, Bartlett, and Tyner because these guys are not all star level players. If they are so great, tell me why Rondell White is their starting left fielder?

The Twins have one of the best 'pens in baseball but that will do them no good when they aren't being brought in with a lead and their weak lineup has to go up against the other back ends of bullpens in AL Central, which includes Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal, Foulke, Hernandez, Borowski, Rodney, Zumaya, Jones, and Dotel. The Twins pen is going to be counted on to win a lot more games this year than in the past when they had Radke. Without Brad or Liriano the Twins' bullpen is going to be much more vulnerable.

About the '05 Sox... The Sox went out and put average to above average players at every position and ran out a starting 5 of 4 veteran workhorses and El Duque/Brandon. The Sox had a pen where everyone knew their roles, and with the exception of Shingo, everyone excelled in those roles. Nowhere on that team did you see Rondell White. The closest thing we had was Everett who was insurance for Frank, who wasn't supposed to go down again shortly after coming back up. Still, Crazy Carl was clutch. Also, nowhere on that team did you see Ramon Ortiz or Sidney Ponson.

I'll say this one more time. Every other team in the Central got better in at least two areas. Minnesota got worse in the OF (at least they had Shannon Stewart for a few games - now they have Ford, White, and Tyner), worse at SP, worse in the pen because their workload will increase, and stayed the same everywhere else. The '07 Sox are for real. The '07 Tigers are for real. The '06 Indians were a fluke and the '07 Indians are for real. Even KC got better in their rotation, better in their starting lineup, better on the bench, and possibly even better in their bullpen. The Twins are not going to be able to overachieve this year.

ma-gaga
01-31-2007, 01:16 PM
The Twins ARE lucky.
...
Even KC got better in their rotation, better in their starting lineup, better on the bench, and possibly even better in their bullpen.

You got lucky! The first post didn't QUITE do it, but the second one iced it. You just made my ignore list. Congrats!!

Yeah baby. Go Royals!!!! :cool:

Thome25
01-31-2007, 01:48 PM
That rotation is good for 3rd place....book it.

caulfield12
01-31-2007, 03:32 PM
Are you kidding me? Two of Garza, Silva, Bonser, and Ponson being compared to Garland and Vazquez? Get real. The Sox fifth starter - even if he sucks - will not suck any worse than Silva or Ponson.

The Twins ARE lucky. They are lucky to get the type of production that they did out of Cuddyer, Punto, Bartlett, and Tyner because these guys are not all star level players. If they are so great, tell me why Rondell White is their starting left fielder?

The Twins have one of the best 'pens in baseball but that will do them no good when they aren't being brought in with a lead and their weak lineup has to go up against the other back ends of bullpens in AL Central, which includes Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal, Foulke, Hernandez, Borowski, Rodney, Zumaya, Jones, and Dotel. The Twins pen is going to be counted on to win a lot more games this year than in the past when they had Radke. Without Brad or Liriano the Twins' bullpen is going to be much more vulnerable.

About the '05 Sox... The Sox went out and put average to above average players at every position and ran out a starting 5 of 4 veteran workhorses and El Duque/Brandon. The Sox had a pen where everyone knew their roles, and with the exception of Shingo, everyone excelled in those roles. Nowhere on that team did you see Rondell White. The closest thing we had was Everett who was insurance for Frank, who wasn't supposed to go down again shortly after coming back up. Still, Crazy Carl was clutch. Also, nowhere on that team did you see Ramon Ortiz or Sidney Ponson.

I'll say this one more time. Every other team in the Central got better in at least two areas. Minnesota got worse in the OF (at least they had Shannon Stewart for a few games - now they have Ford, White, and Tyner), worse at SP, worse in the pen because their workload will increase, and stayed the same everywhere else. The '07 Sox are for real. The '07 Tigers are for real. The '06 Indians were a fluke and the '07 Indians are for real. Even KC got better in their rotation, better in their starting lineup, better on the bench, and possibly even better in their bullpen. The Twins are not going to be able to overachieve this year.


If Kubel is healthier, they have Punto and Bartlett for the entire season (instead of the likes of Batista and Bret Boone)...Hunter is closer to 100%, as well as Castillo healing, they should be just a little bit better offensively.

Jerko
01-31-2007, 03:35 PM
I said this last season, I'll say it again. It won't matter who the Twins have pitching for them if two of the three of Punto, Bartlett, and Tyner get 3 hits a game vs. the Sox like they did almost every game last year. They have the reigning Cy Young winner, MVP AND batting champ. Make those guys beat you, not the little ****s that killed us last year.

UserNameBlank
01-31-2007, 09:09 PM
You got lucky! The first post didn't QUITE do it, but the second one iced it. You just made my ignore list. Congrats!!

Yeah baby. Go Royals!!!! :cool:

Good now I have someone for my list too. I don't know how you can't see the Royals are improved. They are and will be a tougher team because of it.

UserNameBlank
01-31-2007, 09:30 PM
If Kubel is healthier, they have Punto and Bartlett for the entire season (instead of the likes of Batista and Bret Boone)...Hunter is closer to 100%, as well as Castillo healing, they should be just a little bit better offensively.

I forgot about Kubel. It will be interesting to see what he does if he actually plays.

Didn't Bret Boone retire before the '06 season? Batista didn't last long, but I do agree that Punto will at least hit for better average than Batista did.

I think that in some areas their offense will be improved slightly but I also see a lot of regression which is why I think it evens out. I doubt Cuddyer and Tyner have big years again and I think Morneau probably hits more homers but hits for a lower average. If Mauer stays healthy all year he is probably about as solid of an offensive performer as they come, but all in all, I think the Twins are missing a RH power bat in the middle of their lineup and an at least somewhat productive LF.

I think had the Twins spent about $8-10mil on Frank Thomas as a DH and someone like Jose Guillen for LF they would have a pretty tough lineup. As it is though I think they will struggle to score more than 5 runs per game, and I think with that pitching staff they will need to do that quite often. They averaged just under 5 runs per game last season when they were playing out of their minds and I think they were able to get away with it by running out Santana-Liriano-Radke. You just can't replace 2 of those arms with any of Baker/Garza/Bonser/Ponson/Silva/Ortiz.

caulfield12
01-31-2007, 10:03 PM
They signed Ken Harvey.

In all seriousness, Radke was very bad the first two months, and Silva was worse.

Somehow, they kept it all together with Garza, Bonser, Silva, Baker, some unknown named Smith they brought up for one "Arnie Munoz/Porzio" start out of desperation...but, if you look at their overall stats (at the end of the year), nobody stands out, except for the overall dominance of Santana/Liriano and the bullpen.

Grzegorz
02-01-2007, 04:49 AM
Terry Ryan is the best in the business. Assume this team will be a thorn in the Chicago White Sox side in 2007 and in the years to come.

I just hope the Chicago White Sox start to play with a burr in their saddle and take it to these guys and all their opponents; play within the rules but with a mean streak.

Go Chicago White Sox!

Moses_Scurry
02-01-2007, 09:44 AM
Just like Radke, Milton, Mays, Redman, Lohse, Guardado ....

Mientikeiwicz, Pierzinski, Guzman, Lew Ford, Hunter, Koskie, Kielty, etc ....

were lucky and did not deserve to win.


Face it. As much as I hate them, the Twins will be contenders until they prove otherwise.

Torii Hunter and Santana are pretty much the only players left from those 2001-2002 teams that really got under the Sox and us fans' skins. But, it still feels like they are the exact same team. They are still incredibly annoying!

IndianWhiteSox
02-01-2007, 09:57 AM
You got lucky! The first post didn't QUITE do it, but the second one iced it. You just made my ignore list. Congrats!!

Yeah baby. Go Royals!!!! :cool:


:troll(insert teal)

But seriously, I know that the Twinkies have been competitve every year since 2001. But if the White Sox can just get angry at the Twins, 2005 will happen again.

White Sox Randy
02-01-2007, 01:46 PM
I feel silly even responding to this because the Twins are obviously one of the best run organizations in baseball but...they had 3 of the top 10 players in MVP voting last year - Morneau, Mauer and Santana. I believe that all 3 still play for the Twins- and they are healthy and young.

I have a feeling that the Twins will have a pretty good team for awhile.