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havelj
01-20-2007, 09:37 AM
Scott Reifert noted this breakdown in his blog on how the Sox have improved their catcher position with the Toby Hall signing. Great analysis and a great pick-up by Kenny.

http://actasports.com/sow.php?id=113

caulfield12
01-20-2007, 10:09 AM
Sounds like Phil Rogers' article. That's the only area he would acknowledge the White Sox have improved in from last season.

Hitmen77
01-20-2007, 10:44 AM
Sounds like Phil Rogers' article. That's the only area he would acknowledge the White Sox have improved in from last season.

So, because he writes an article about how the Sox have improved at catching that means the same thing as him writing a Rogers-esque article and "admitting" that the Sox have failed to improve anywhere else? GMAB.

Juice16
01-20-2007, 12:42 PM
Right now it is the only area of improvement. I want the bullpen to be better but I don't understand how one can say it is an improvement until the young arms pitch. Nobody we picked up is proven yet. It is easy to say these guys will have better years than Cotts, Politte and Riske because of how bad they finished. Can we wait and see how these guys will pitch before we call this area and improvement?

DumpJerry
01-20-2007, 12:54 PM
great pick-up by Kenny.

Redundant wording.

Right now it is the only area of improvement. I want the bullpen to be better but I don't understand how one can say it is an improvement until the young arms pitch. Nobody we picked up is proven yet. It is easy to say these guys will have better years than Cotts, Politte and Riske because of how bad they finished. Can we wait and see how these guys will pitch before we call this area and improvement?
The Bullpen of '07 is completely different from the '06 'Pen. I'm getting close to the feeling I have 24 months ago when my sig read "Bring it on!"

We need to remember that no team is perfect. All teams have weak links. How they work around those weak links is what moves them to the playoffs. Hall works us around a big weak link. We might see less of Johan next year because there will no longer be an advantage to tinker the rotation when we're coming up on the Twins' schedule.

soxfanatlanta
01-20-2007, 01:01 PM
We might see less of Johan next year because there will no longer be an advantage to tinker the rotation when we're coming up on the Twins' schedule.

:?: Nani?

Santana pitched well against just about the entire team, not just AJ. Please explain.

DumpJerry
01-20-2007, 01:11 PM
:?: Nani?

Santana pitched well against just about the entire team, not just AJ. Please explain.
Last year, if Johan was scheduled to pitch the day before a series against the White Sox, he would skip the start so that he would face the Sox. This was to ensure that Ozzie would either risk having AJ catch or he would throw in Widger or Alomar, both of whom were not guys who made our pulses race.

Now that we have a backup catcher who is decent against lefties, the adjustment has lost its edge. In the minds of the Twins, winning the game the day before the Sox series will carry equal odds as winning the "extra" game that Johan pretty much assured, but won't like he did before.

nedlug
01-20-2007, 02:46 PM
Last year, if Johan was scheduled to pitch the day before a series against the White Sox, he would skip the start so that he would face the Sox. This was to ensure that Ozzie would either risk having AJ catch or he would throw in Widger or Alomar, both of whom were not guys who made our pulses race.

Now that we have a backup catcher who is decent against lefties, the adjustment has lost its edge. In the minds of the Twins, winning the game the day before the Sox series will carry equal odds as winning the "extra" game that Johan pretty much assured, but won't like he did before.

Please. AJ is not nearly good enough to provide a reason to shuffle your rotation. AJ may be a small part, but I think it's mostly just that the Twinkies saw us as the biggest threat to the ALC and wanted to beat us head to head as much as possible.

btrain929
01-20-2007, 02:51 PM
Last year, if Johan was scheduled to pitch the day before a series against the White Sox, he would skip the start so that he would face the Sox. This was to ensure that Ozzie would either risk having AJ catch or he would throw in Widger or Alomar, both of whom were not guys who made our pulses race.

Now that we have a backup catcher who is decent against lefties, the adjustment has lost its edge. In the minds of the Twins, winning the game the day before the Sox series will carry equal odds as winning the "extra" game that Johan pretty much assured, but won't like he did before.

uhhhhh, no.
im pretttttttttty sure johan dominated most, if not, all of the sox batters, on a consistent basis. changing one lefty hitter to a righty isnt going to change their strategy. its worked in the past, and they'll keep doing it until we prove that from top to bottom, we can get to this guy. he is one of the exceptions in the league where it rarely matters if the batter is LH or RH, hes going to do his thing, and thats send you back to the dugout.
having said all that, i most DEFINITELY HOPE that the twins do go your route and not save him for us, cuz i'd rather face that boof queer, ramon ortiz and carlos silva :bandance:

areilly
01-20-2007, 03:04 PM
The Bullpen of '07 is completely different from the '06 'Pen.


You're right: the question marks about the bullpen going into this year are considerably larger than the question marks about the bullpen going into last year.

I don't know where everyone's getting all this confidence. Just because the kids could throw 96 in AA doesn't mean they're going to make a difference this year because Don Cooper is now the guy yelling at them.

Domeshot17
01-20-2007, 03:41 PM
Last year, if Johan was scheduled to pitch the day before a series against the White Sox, he would skip the start so that he would face the Sox. This was to ensure that Ozzie would either risk having AJ catch or he would throw in Widger or Alomar, both of whom were not guys who made our pulses race.

Now that we have a backup catcher who is decent against lefties, the adjustment has lost its edge. In the minds of the Twins, winning the game the day before the Sox series will carry equal odds as winning the "extra" game that Johan pretty much assured, but won't like he did before.

Im kind of with the majority here confused by this. I know you are 100% right the Twins would shuffle their rotation to make Johan face us as much as possible. But I don't think it had anything to do with AJ as much as having your best pitcher (and hands down best pitcher in the entire league) face off against the defending division champions, who were playing at a high level all season long.

Frater Perdurabo
01-20-2007, 03:51 PM
Im kind of with the majority here confused by this. I know you are 100% right the Twins would shuffle their rotation to make Johan face us as much as possible. But I don't think it had anything to do with AJ as much as having your best pitcher (and hands down best pitcher in the entire league) face off against the defending division champions, who were playing at a high level all season long.

Of course it didn't have much to do with AJ. But now, Hall at least gives the Sox another hitter who hits lefties quite well. He's far more likely than AJ to actually come up with a key hit against Santana. If and when that happens, the Twins may be reluctant in future series to juggle their rotation to face the Sox.

Of course, the Sox really ought to re-think their entire strategy when facing Santanta, as well as get a better hitting approach overall when facing lefties.

goon
01-20-2007, 04:25 PM
You're right: the question marks about the bullpen going into this year are considerably larger than the question marks about the bullpen going into last year.

I don't know where everyone's getting all this confidence. Just because the kids could throw 96 in AA doesn't mean they're going to make a difference this year because Don Cooper is now the guy yelling at them.

interesting. people were confident in our bullpen last year... remind me what happened again.

and who exactly from AA is going to be pitching in the sox bullpen next year? i assume you're talking about danks, but i'm not sure. the bullpen in '07 will include jenks, macdougal, thornton, aardsma, with probably floyd, haegar, sisco or masset. there is a lot of youth there, but most, if not all are major league ready.

our bullpen should be very good... as long as they throw strikes.

DumpJerry
01-20-2007, 04:57 PM
If Hall can get an early inning hit that AJ doesn't off Johan, that means it is more likely that Johan hits the showers in the 6th instead of the 7th inning giving us three more outs without Johan on the Hump.

Another benefit of having Hall is that AJ will get more days off, thereby making him better rested for the stretch run.

chisoxmike
01-20-2007, 05:44 PM
Until our bullpen pitches DURING THE REGULAR SEASON, I'm going to hold off on saying it is improved.

soxfanatlanta
01-20-2007, 07:37 PM
If Hall can get an early inning hit that AJ doesn't off Johan, that means it is more likely that Johan hits the showers in the 6th instead of the 7th inning giving us three more outs without Johan on the Hump.

Another benefit of having Hall is that AJ will get more days off, thereby making him better rested for the stretch run.

Toby Hall last year vs Santana 10 AB, 2 H, 1 BB, 3 SO

Not very good.

Do not get me wrong, having Hall getting AJ days off is huge; keep the man fresh for the post season (no need for pink here).

itsnotrequired
01-20-2007, 08:00 PM
Toby Hall last year vs Santana 10 AB, 2 H, 1 BB, 3 SO

Not very good.

Do not get me wrong, having Hall getting AJ days off is huge; keep the man fresh for the post season (no need for pink here).

This sample size is far to small to draw any type of reasonable conclusion from.

maurice
01-22-2007, 03:33 PM
List of improvements so far:
- Catcher definitely will be better.
- The bullpen probably will be better.
- CF probably will be better.

The bullpen has been discussed extensively in other threads. CF definitely is better defensively, because Ozzie says no Mack in CF in 2007. Also, BA probably will improve offensively in his 2nd year. A handful of veteran players also are in line for an improvement after down years in 2006, though others could get worse.

For all the local media's yapping about KW's aleged failure to improve the team (read: failure to waste money like Hendry), we ultimately will have to wait and see. That's why they play the games and don't crown the champs based on January rosters.

White Sox Randy
01-22-2007, 04:33 PM
This team is pretty much the same as last year. The lineup should be about the same in production.

The bullpen should be improved. How much ? If it is significantly better, which is possible, that could make the difference of a post season for the Sox.

4 of the 5 starting pitchers are the same. Most likely, the season will come down to the effectiveness of the 5th starter.

Will Floyd/Haeger/Danks get 15 wins or 8 wins ?

Will Kenny make any more significant moves before the season starts ?