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soxtalker
01-15-2007, 01:10 PM
There's a rumor (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/01/white_sox_consi.html) (attibuted -- with link -- to Gammons, though I don't have access) on MLB Trade rumors that the Sox might be looking at the Angels minor league SS Erick Aybar.

CashMan
01-15-2007, 01:13 PM
I like him as a prospect, he is a power hitting SS.

SABRSox
01-15-2007, 01:19 PM
It's merely speculation on Gammons' part. A straight up trade of Crede for Aybar, though, is a really bad trade for us. I don't see it happening.

crazyozzie02
01-15-2007, 01:24 PM
FINALLY!!!!! WE HAVE A TRADE RUMOR!!! I was going through serious withdrawl. I dont like it really. Not for what we would have to give up

rdwj
01-15-2007, 01:25 PM
Sounds like a rumor that someone on the Angel's message board would start.

Domeshot17
01-15-2007, 01:27 PM
Oy, I really hope this is just a bad rumor from a bad rumor website (can't believe Im actually about to comment on a rumor from mlbtraderumors.com).

I feel safer knowing where the rumor is coming from, but wow what a bad trade. Trade Joe Crede for a guy who is the next Uribe, just with speed. Im sorry but having 1 short stop who can't hit is bad enough. If we replace him, lets make it some quality. That speed won't mean anything when he is putting up Uribe like OBP

crazyozzie02
01-15-2007, 01:30 PM
This is off the subject, but i love how you can buy lakers trade rumors on ebay now.:D: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/chicago_white_sox/index.html (look under the latest trade rumor)

1917
01-15-2007, 01:33 PM
MLBtraderumors + Gammons = crap. We're safe!!

soxtalker
01-15-2007, 01:34 PM
It looks (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=381&p=9&c=12&yr=2006&nid=287&lnid=287&rc=4&ai=l) like the Angels have a couple of other good SS prospects waiting in the wings, so they can afford to deal Aybar. It does seem that a straight-up deal for Crede would be a bit much, but maybe KW has some other players in the Angels system that he'd also be interested in.

crazyozzie02
01-15-2007, 01:57 PM
It looks (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=381&p=9&c=12&yr=2006&nid=287&lnid=287&rc=4&ai=l) like the Angels have a couple of other good SS prospects waiting in the wings, so they can afford to deal Aybar. It does seem that a straight-up deal for Crede would be a bit much, but maybe KW has some other players in the Angels system that he'd also be interested in.

i still dont know. it would make a lot of people upset i think if he trades away all the propects he just got in these deals for another prospect.

caulfield12
01-15-2007, 01:59 PM
I wouldn't mind Figgins and Aybar (or Wood) for Crede and a second tier Sox pitching prospect...but not right now, I want to wait until after this year plays out first.

A lot could change with all four of those players...Pods might have a great season, and we would have no use for Figgins. Uribe could resurrect his career and sign a long-term deal. Lots of ?'s, but it seems we will trade Crede sometime between June, 07 and July 31st, 08.

veeter
01-15-2007, 02:19 PM
I love trade rumors where the Sox would trade an all-star caliber third baseman, for a shortstop prospect. Obviously, more players would be involved, if it were true at all. I am hopeful we're going to hear the announcement of a four year contract for Joe, avoiding arbitration.

soxtalker
01-15-2007, 02:21 PM
i still dont know. it would make a lot of people upset i think if he trades away all the propects he just got in these deals for another prospect.

Oh, I'm sure that this board would go crazy with such a move, and the sportswriters probably wouldn't be too happy either. Such a move -- particularly if we didn't get back any major league players -- would be more gutsy than any of the others KW has made this year. It probably won't happen, but, then again, Kenny can do anything...

Personally, I'm intrigued by this. Kenny has to do something with Crede. Maybe that's signing him to a long-term contract. Without the back problems or Fields being nearly ready, that's what I'd expect. But those two factors seem to make a deal involving Crede more likely.

Lillian
01-15-2007, 02:36 PM
I wouldn't mind Figgins and Aybar (or Wood) for Crede and a second tier Sox pitching prospect.....................

Did you really mean to even mention Wood and Aybar in the same breath?

Wood is one thing, even all by himself. He could be the next A-Rod.
But a trade for nothing more than Figgins and Aybar is a very bad trade.

The only thing dumber than that rumor are the comments posted below the rumor, on MLBRumors.com

ondafarm
01-15-2007, 02:37 PM
The only way I'd trade Crede for Aybar was if the Angels threw in Figgins.

Corlose 15
01-15-2007, 02:50 PM
The only way I'd trade Crede for Aybar was if the Angels threw in Figgins.

I wouldn't even do that. I don't really know anything about this Aybar kid but if Crede for him straight up isn't a good trade adding Figgins doesn't improve anything IMO.

ondafarm
01-15-2007, 02:58 PM
I wouldn't even do that. I don't really know anything about this Aybar kid but if Crede for him straight up isn't a good trade adding Figgins doesn't improve anything IMO.

Figgins would provide insurance in a couple of areas. First, he can play both third and CF adequately. I wouldn't consistently start him at either, but he's not a black hole like Mack was. Second, he's a decent lead-off man, roughly equal to Pods. The Sox really could use two decent lead-off men, in case one gets hurt and having two guys who steal 30 bags a year isn't bad in the first place.

Figgins is not a great lead-off man or a great defender, but he can play.

Lillian
01-15-2007, 03:13 PM
Any trade with the Angels that cost the Sox Crede, better include someone like Brandon Wood, Kendry Morales, or some other player with a higher ceilings than Aybar.

btrain929
01-15-2007, 03:18 PM
I love trade rumors where the Sox would trade an all-star caliber third baseman, for a shortstop prospect. Obviously, more players would be involved, if it were true at all. I am hopeful we're going to hear the announcement of a four year contract for Joe, avoiding arbitration.

i wouldnt be so quick to jump on the "joe crede extension" bandwagon yet. his back is a serious issue which made him pretty much non existent for the most part of the 2nd half last yr. he didnt have surgury on it, which means he might only be permanently fixing it, but can give out once hes 110 games into a season. of course he has a great glove, but he really only has one good offensive year under his belt. i think he needs to prove that his back is not an issue any more, and he can constantly be a 30 and 100 guy. if that all happens next yr, then sure lets sign him if he doesnt make it outrageous for us. if he doesnt, then lets sell him as high as possible.

JohnTucker0814
01-15-2007, 03:56 PM
Honestly, I would trade Crede & Floyd (or other pitcher) for Brandon Wood and Figgins. I think Wood will give you just as many numbers as crede would offensively and Figgins is going to give you better numbers than Uribe with a ton more speed. Having Figgins and Pods batting 9 & 1 there is a lot of speed there. A lot more of a chance of Figgins scoring from first on a double by Konerko, Dye Thome than Uribe. Plus you get a top SS prospect for the next 508 yrs. I doubt the Angels would give up Wood, but they are desperate for a power bad... and some think Crede is a "Power" bat...

UserNameBlank
01-15-2007, 03:58 PM
Did you really mean to even mention Wood and Aybar in the same breath?

Wood is one thing, even all by himself. He could be the next A-Rod.
But a trade for nothing more than Figgins and Aybar is a very bad trade.

The only thing dumber than that rumor are the comments posted below the rumor, on MLBRumors.com

I agree. We already have Uribe and Pods, we don't need to give up Crede for a younger Uribe and a younger Pods just to apparently save a few million.

The Sox have control of Crede for two more seasons and the Sox should use this to their advantage with Fields coming soon. If the right trade comes along where they receive a prospect at a skill position with major offensive upside then sure, make the trade. But don't deal Joe for a couple of players that at best would be slight improvements over the weakest offensive players we currently have.

Aybar + Figgins for Crede = Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

*Edit: One more thing. If the Indians can turn Coco Crisp around for Andy Marte, Crede should net us something significant as well.

UserNameBlank
01-15-2007, 04:05 PM
Figgins would provide insurance in a couple of areas. First, he can play both third and CF adequately. I wouldn't consistently start him at either, but he's not a black hole like Mack was. Second, he's a decent lead-off man, roughly equal to Pods. The Sox really could use two decent lead-off men, in case one gets hurt and having two guys who steal 30 bags a year isn't bad in the first place.

Figgins is not a great lead-off man or a great defender, but he can play.

The Sox could also use a GG quality 3B with 30+ HR power. I like Figgins and would take him over Pods, but he can't even sniff Joe's jock. And add in another defensive-minded SS projected as an offensive liability? No thanks. I'd take my chances re-signing Uribe at 4-5 million per year and trade Joe, if he must be traded, for something worth a damn.

caulfield12
01-15-2007, 04:20 PM
I agree. We already have Uribe and Pods, we don't need to give up Crede for a younger Uribe and a younger Pods just to apparently save a few million.

The Sox have control of Crede for two more seasons and the Sox should use this to their advantage with Fields coming soon. If the right trade comes along where they receive a prospect at a skill position with major offensive upside then sure, make the trade. But don't deal Joe for a couple of players that at best would be slight improvements over the weakest offensive players we currently have.

Aybar + Figgins for Crede = Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

*Edit: One more thing. If the Indians can turn Coco Crisp around for Andy Marte, Crede should net us something significant as well.

Marte looks more like Snopek/Norton than Ventura/Crede at this point.

caulfield12
01-15-2007, 04:24 PM
Well, we shouldn't trade for Aybar if we can get Wood, you're KW, you might as well go for broke.

Something like Crede and Gio/Danks for Wood, Figgins AND Shields might be a very good trade for the Sox.

It would give us "insurance" for Pods, Fields and Anderson in Figgins, although Figgins is a questionable (at best) defender at 3B.

It would give us a future star SS, a big step up from Uribe.

And one of the 2-3 best RH set-up men in the game, and one who can pitched a couple of innings at a time instead of just one. That would give us a weapon to counter Zumaya...different, of course, but effective.

UserNameBlank
01-15-2007, 04:31 PM
Marte looks more like Snopek/Norton than Ventura/Crede at this point.

You never know what you're going to get with any prospect as even "can't miss" guys often miss terribly. But, I think if you are trading an All-Star level major league player for the potential of a prospect, you need to get very high potential. The Indians got a 40-HR potential player at the time for an above average LF. The Sox need to get similar potential in a prospect who is near MLB ready OR get a young maor leaguer with similar potential. Otherwise, the Sox will most likely get more use in the long run from 2 years of Crede + draft picks than no Crede, no picks, and a couple of weak hitters.

ondafarm
01-15-2007, 04:35 PM
Although I don't like being called dumb five times here, I am pleased that we are seeing considerable discussion of adding a strong defensive player at a critical defensive position and and a good leadoff man.

esbrechtel
01-15-2007, 04:36 PM
I am hopeful we're going to hear the announcement of a four year contract for Joe, avoiding arbitration.

That would be the second best whitesox event in my life....WS being 1....(the disappointment of losing the first round in 1993 and 2000 overshadow the actual winning of the division) letting crede go for prospects is very dumb....i just feel like the sox should be happy they were patient with a guy that finally played out to his potential & give him the contract he deserves

UserNameBlank
01-15-2007, 04:38 PM
Well, we shouldn't trade for Aybar if we can get Wood, you're KW, you might as well go for broke.

Something like Crede and Gio/Danks for Wood, Figgins AND Shields might be a very good trade for the Sox.

It would give us "insurance" for Pods, Fields and Anderson in Figgins, although Figgins is a questionable (at best) defender at 3B.

It would give us a future star SS, a big step up from Uribe.

And one of the 2-3 best RH set-up men in the game, and one who can pitched a couple of innings at a time instead of just one. That would give us a weapon to counter Zumaya...different, of course, but effective.

The trade above would be a good one for the Sox, but if it came to that I'd rather see the Sox go Crede for Wood straight up with low level prospects thrown in to make it work. Figgins and even Shields would be nice additions but IMO not at the expense of Danks or Gio since both of those are going to most likely be heavily counted on two years from now. With Figgins he could rebound and have a nice year, but so could Pods (albeit less likely for Pods). Shields would be great to have but we don't really need him right now as it would push MacDougal back into the 6th/7th inning. That is a luxury we don't need at the expense of some of our most valuable talent.

1917
01-15-2007, 04:39 PM
That would be the second best whitesox event in my life....WS being 1....(the disappointment of losing the first round in 1993 and 2000 overshadow the actual winning of the division) letting crede go for prospects is very dumb....i just feel like the sox should be happy they were patient with a guy that finally played out to his potential & give him the contract he deserves

That lazy worthless, plays when it doesn't matter, 3rd basemen over on the north side ruined the market for 3rd basemen...Crede will be looking to match, or get more

UserNameBlank
01-15-2007, 04:46 PM
Although I don't like being called dumb five times here, I am pleased that we are seeing considerable discussion of adding a strong defensive player at a critical defensive position and and a good leadoff man.

If you're referring to my post I wasn't calling you dumb, just saying that KW would be dumb to make that trade.

It's not that Aybar and Figgins would be bad acquisitions, but it would be bad to give up Crede for them IMO. People here love to undervalue Sox players but it seems very often that KW gets good players for well below what Sox fans would see as appropriate value (i.e. Thornton for Borchard, Cintron for Bajenaru, Uribe for Miles, Riske for Lopez, Sisco for Gload, etc.).

While KW might not be able to get Figgins and Aybar for scrap, I'm confident in his ability to find something similar for much less in return. Maybe some team is willing to give out another one of those deals like above? IMO there will be some movement around or during ST this year.

NardiWasHere
01-15-2007, 04:47 PM
That would be the second best whitesox event in my life

Signing a player to an extention would be the second best "whitesox event"
of your life?

AJ Hellraiser
01-15-2007, 04:49 PM
First and foremost, I have been told by several sources KW has absolutely no intention of bringing Figgins aboard.... thank god...

If he decided to trade Crede, I wouldn't mind seeing Aybar as he can't be any worse than Uribe and is young enough to improve and become a star, but anothe player has to be headed the Sox way as well

Shields has no room in our bullpen at the moment, assuming Massett is taking a spot and I believe he will...

The Angels still have 6 starting pitchers by my count... maybe Aybar and Ervin Santana for Crede? That would solve the 5th starter issue, give the Sox another really quality young arm and they could then choose between Santana and Garland for who they will build the future staff around...

JermaineDye05
01-15-2007, 05:01 PM
First and foremost, I have been told by several sources KW has absolutely no intention of bringing Figgins aboard.... thank god...

If he decided to trade Crede, I wouldn't mind seeing Aybar as he can't be any worse than Uribe and is young enough to improve and become a star, but anothe player has to be headed the Sox way as well

Shields has no room in our bullpen at the moment, assuming Massett is taking a spot and I believe he will...

The Angels still have 6 starting pitchers by my count... maybe Aybar and Ervin Santana for Crede? That would solve the 5th starter issue, give the Sox another really quality young arm and they could then choose between Santana and Garland for who they will build the future staff around...

no way the angels do that Crede for Santana straight up is ridiculous enough.

UserNameBlank
01-15-2007, 05:09 PM
no way the angels do that Crede for Santana straight up is ridiculous enough.

Aybar and Santana both for Crede is a bit crazy for the Angels, but Crede for Santana isn't ridiculous at all if the Angels sign Crede to an extension. If Crede becomes a constant .270-.300 hitter with 30 or more HR's every year and Santana becomes a consistent 15 game winner, it is a very even trade IMO.

champagne030
01-15-2007, 05:17 PM
Shields has no room in our bullpen at the moment, assuming Massett is taking a spot and I believe he will...


:?: I would put him #2, but he would, at worst be #4. Not good enough to even be part of the 'pen? I want want what you've been drinking today.

caulfield12
01-15-2007, 05:25 PM
First and foremost, I have been told by several sources KW has absolutely no intention of bringing Figgins aboard.... thank god...

If he decided to trade Crede, I wouldn't mind seeing Aybar as he can't be any worse than Uribe and is young enough to improve and become a star, but anothe player has to be headed the Sox way as well

Shields has no room in our bullpen at the moment, assuming Massett is taking a spot and I believe he will...

The Angels still have 6 starting pitchers by my count... maybe Aybar and Ervin Santana for Crede? That would solve the 5th starter issue, give the Sox another really quality young arm and they could then choose between Santana and Garland for who they will build the future staff around...


Why would the Angels trade a starter they would affordably control for 4 years for a two year rental and a potential stud infielder?

Not to mention there's a lot of uncertainty about Colon's condition (and conditioning).

AJ Hellraiser
01-15-2007, 05:39 PM
I didn't say Shields wouldn't be part of the bullpen, I mean that if KW is going to trade Crede he needs to get back parts of need and right now bullpen is not an area of need.. he has addressed that rather adequately this offseason....

The Angels are in desperate need of another power hitter behind Vlad and struck out on the big names all offseason... they would gladly part with one of their starters and Colon can't be traded due to his injury woes making one of the other 5 expendable... Weaver and Lackey are going nowhere... Escobar's contract is a bit high and when he is healthy he is damn good... so it's either Santana or Saunders as the odd man out

caulfield12
01-15-2007, 05:47 PM
Well, that's the problem with baseball...Jenks goes the Koch/Takatsu/Hermanson route, MacDougal gets injured (happens every other year) and Thornton goes Marte on us in the closer's role.

Then what?

Yeah, a lot of "what ifs," but no team, especially the White Sox last year, can ever have enough bullpen talent.

It doesn't exist, a surplus, you can always improve your club. It makes more sense to make it a huge strength than to make marginal improvements at LF, CF or SS that either cost too much talent or money vis a vis the potential improvement over existing players.

Why the Angels would ditch young starters (that are affordable) is not unlike the McCarthy trade, except they would be getting someone back for only 2 years, not five.

And you would be trading YOUNG starting pitching for a position player. Saunders could be another Buehrle in the making, although I think most here would prefer Santana.

However, I don't see how Stoneman could make the deal until/unless he knew Colon was 100%, and that won't be anytime soon.

KyWhiSoxFan
01-15-2007, 05:47 PM
Not only do the Angels need anther power hitter, they need a third baseman. I would have to think Crede is a very desirable player for the Angels. The questions, of course, are how bad do they want him and do the Sox really want to trade Crede? If the Sox trade Crede for a prospect, as has been discussed in this thread, to me that would mean the Sox are building for 2008, not for 2007. If they get Santana, however, that would be great for 2007 and beyond.

If the Sox trade Crede, creating a spot in the infield, wouldn't they be better served by plugging in Fields rather than try to groom Aybar?

I would rather have Fields and Santana than Aybar. That's a no brainer.

caulfield12
01-15-2007, 05:51 PM
Not only do the Angels need anther power hitter, they need a third baseman. I would have to think Crede is a very desirable player for the Angels. The questions, of course, are how bad do they want him and do the Sox really want to trade Crede? If the Sox trade Crede for a prospect, as has been discussed in this thread, to me that would mean the Sox are building for 2008, not for 2007. If they get Santana, however, that would be great for 2007 and beyond.

If the Sox trade Crede, creating a spot in the infield, wouldn't they be better served by plugging in Fields rather than try to groom Aybar?

I would rather have Fields and Santana than Aybar. That's a no brainer.


But can they afford to block all their prospects? Are they just going to give up on Kotchmann, McPherson and Morales, to name a few? At this point, none of those guys have a position...where does Figgins go? Kendrick? You just added a veteran 1B in "Mr. Booted Out of Toronto". DH will alternate between Anderson and Figgins I guess.

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2007, 06:14 PM
That lazy worthless, plays when it doesn't matter, 3rd basemen over on the north side ruined the market for 3rd basemen...Crede will be looking to match, or get more
Damn Ramirez and his 136-137-126 OPS+ numbers the last three years.

TaylorStSox
01-15-2007, 07:03 PM
I'm willing to bet there isn't 1, not 1, person on this board that's seen Aybar play, yet he's already better than Uribe. :rolleyes:

rdwj
01-15-2007, 07:08 PM
I'm willing to bet there isn't 1, not 1, person on this board that's seen Aybar play, yet he's already better than Uribe. :rolleyes:

I'd be willing to bet those that have even heard of him are a small minority

munchman33
01-15-2007, 08:33 PM
I'm willing to bet there isn't 1, not 1, person on this board that's seen Aybar play, yet he's already better than Uribe. :rolleyes:

You sit through an entire season with Uribe's type of at bats and you begin to realize that anyone who can marginally play shortstop is potentially better.

TaylorStSox
01-15-2007, 08:36 PM
You sit through an entire season with Uribe's type of at bats and you begin to realize that anyone who can marginally play shortstop is potentially better.


Some of us value defense out of our SS. I don't give a **** what he hits like. I'll take the 20 dongs. K... thanks.

santo=dorf
01-15-2007, 08:49 PM
I'd be willing to bet those that have even heard of him are a small minority

I have, and I always think of Star Wars when I see his name.

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/c/e/6cef78c13f2b626b68ef5af02b8fdc42.jpg

"IT'S A TRAP!!!"

soxtalker
01-15-2007, 09:36 PM
I don't quite understand the suggestion that KW might want to acquire Chone Figgins. I don't recall a lot of discussion on WSI, but the Sox signed Luis Terrero back in November. Now, he's not a big name, but it looks like Kenny is looking to him for back-up in CF (and maybe even competition for BA).

UserNameBlank
01-15-2007, 10:13 PM
I don't quite understand the suggestion that KW might want to acquire Chone Figgins. I don't recall a lot of discussion on WSI, but the Sox signed Luis Terrero back in November. Now, he's not a big name, but it looks like Kenny is looking to him for back-up in CF (and maybe even competition for BA).

Figgins would only be a replacement for Pods IMO. I really doubt anyone would want to watch him hit .270 and butcher up CF when Anderson can probably hit .260 or .270 and play a GG type CF.

Figgins would be a nice option but from every rumor I've seen the Angels think he's worth a heck of a lot more than what KW would be willing to give up to get him. IMO, after his season last year, he is worth about one mid-level prospect more than what Pods is worth, which can't be much. Every potential Sox-Angels deal for Figgins that I've seen includes Crede, which makes me wonder if the all the plastic those Californians inject into their bodies has somehow found its way to their brains.

jabrch
01-15-2007, 10:47 PM
Figgins would only be a replacement for Pods IMO. I really doubt anyone would want to watch him hit .270 and butcher up CF when Anderson can probably hit .260 or .270 and play a GG type CF.

Figgins would be a nice option but from every rumor I've seen the Angels think he's worth a heck of a lot more than what KW would be willing to give up to get him. IMO, after his season last year, he is worth about one mid-level prospect more than what Pods is worth, which can't be much. Every potential Sox-Angels deal for Figgins that I've seen includes Crede, which makes me wonder if the all the plastic those Californians inject into their bodies has somehow found its way to their brains.

Figgins is no better a baseball player than Pods except that he plays more positions poorly than Pods does. There is no reason to pursue him. The Angels have a bunch of players we'd be much better off with.

soxtalker
01-15-2007, 11:03 PM
I don't quite understand the suggestion that KW might want to acquire Chone Figgins. I don't recall a lot of discussion on WSI, but the Sox signed Luis Terrero back in November. Now, he's not a big name, but it looks like Kenny is looking to him for back-up in CF (and maybe even competition for BA).

My point on Figgins is not so much to question whether he's an appropriate replacement for BA -- or Pods. I don't really know much about him. However, I've seen his name pop up in this thread and others, so there is a group of WSI members who think that he's a possible candidate. My point is that I don't think that KW would consider him a candidate. In fact, while there seems to be a lot of concern on WSI and in the media about our outfield, the acquisition of Terrero would seem to indicate that KW may already feel that he has that covered.

caulfield12
01-15-2007, 11:09 PM
My point on Figgins is not so much to question whether he's an appropriate replacement for BA -- or Pods. I don't really know much about him. However, I've seen his name pop up in this thread and others, so there is a group of WSI members who think that he's a possible candidate. My point is that I don't think that KW would consider him a candidate. In fact, while there seems to be a lot of concern on WSI and in the media about our outfield, the acquisition of Terrero would seem to indicate that KW may already feel that he has that covered.

Or he could simply flip him for another player he prefers, like KW did trading Alex Escobar for Jerry Owens.

Domeshot17
01-15-2007, 11:27 PM
Some of us value defense out of our SS. I don't give a **** what he hits like. I'll take the 20 dongs. K... thanks.

The problem with Uribe is you really don't have room for both him and a rookie (like Anderson) to play all glove and no stick in the 8 and 9 role. Especially with Uribe taking a lot of plays off, not being a good base runner, not being anywhere near a situational hitter and letting balls fly out of his arm with no idea where they are headed. I will always be greatful for his catch in the world series, but I am done supporting Uribe. The same way I thank Blum for his homer, but don't want him on the 25 man again.

As for those who wonder about Aybar. He is great with the glove, has a soft stick, was a .280 hitter in triple A with some pop. Mostly impresses with his speed and his D. If you want to compare him to anyone, think Alex Gonzalez but with 15-20 stolen bases a year. Shouldnt ever hit more then .260 and isnt a patient hitter (draws few walks).

esbrechtel
01-15-2007, 11:41 PM
I have, and I always think of Star Wars when I see his name.

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/c/e/6cef78c13f2b626b68ef5af02b8fdc42.jpg

"IT'S A TRAP!!!"

:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling:

SABRSox
01-16-2007, 12:32 AM
I'm willing to bet there isn't 1, not 1, person on this board that's seen Aybar play, yet he's already better than Uribe. :rolleyes:

I've seen him. He's nowhere near Uribe defensively, but the kid has a pretty nice bat.

I'd rather have Brandon Wood, though, if we're talking about Angels SS prospects. That kid can hit with the best of them.

ondafarm
01-16-2007, 02:56 AM
I'm willing to bet there isn't 1, not 1, person on this board that's seen Aybar play, yet he's already better than Uribe. :rolleyes:

Checking my notes, I have seen Aybar play. 2 ABs in Sacramento. His positioning was good but not a ball hit to him.

Beautox
01-16-2007, 03:04 AM
I love Aybar he reminds me alot of Omar Vizquel and to have him for 5 years in the 2 hole would be great. Crede has two years left. Personally to me i see Crede's value as 2 B level spects, if the angels throw in SS/2B Sean Rodriguez i'm sold.

The angles have Kendrick and Wood as their future along with Orlando Cabrera, Maicer Izturis and Chone Figgins. Shea is horrid at 3B, id imagine hes going to see alot of time at 1B since McPhearson is always hurt and Kotchman hasn't lived up to the hype.

Obviously i would love to see Reggie Willits coming back our way and to make that happen we would prolly have to add some LHP(logan/vasquez/phillips).

Grzegorz
01-16-2007, 05:28 AM
I'd rather have Brandon Wood, though, if we're talking about Angels SS prospects. That kid can hit with the best of them.

For how many years has he hit like this?

Trading Crede now for a SS that does not have a shot of helping the team this year and possibly next is a huge risk.

There is no guarantee that Fields shines in his rookie year. He very well might struggle like BA not only at bat but in the field.

These Chicago White Sox has a small window of opportunity with these players; they'd better take advantage of that opportunity now.

soxtalker
01-16-2007, 08:53 AM
For how many years has he hit like this?

Trading Crede now for a SS that does not have a shot of helping the team this year and possibly next is a huge risk.

There is no guarantee that Fields shines in his rookie year. He very well might struggle like BA not only at bat but in the field.

These Chicago White Sox has a small window of opportunity with these players; they'd better take advantage of that opportunity now.

Crede might also have more value now than he would in a year. He'll only have one year before FA, and his back could cause more problems. So, it is a risk either way. Wasn't it Branch Rickey who said that he'd prefer to trade a player one year too soon than one year too late?

Kenny is rolling the dice no matter which way he goes. Hopefully, he's balancing the risks correctly.

ZombieRob
01-16-2007, 11:21 AM
Anyone think Omar Vizquel is is K.W sights? He may not be the big name or big prospect everyone wants ,but he does fit in with what this team is trying to do and would.nt be a bad flyer to take for a possible 2 year deal.He definitly isn't finished as a player and is very good batting in the 2 hole .

caulfield12
01-16-2007, 12:23 PM
This has been discussed over and over again, seemingly for 3 years now.

I think with some uncertainty about Uribe's status, there will be no way to trade him and a prospect to SF for Omar.

And KW can't afford to have that much money sunk into Uribe and Cintron sitting on the bench. If they didn't make him part of the Vizquel deal and KW was forced to deal Uribe out of desperation, KW would be raked over the coals and poked in the eye.

russ99
01-16-2007, 01:21 PM
I don't quite understand the suggestion that KW might want to acquire Chone Figgins. I don't recall a lot of discussion on WSI, but the Sox signed Luis Terrero back in November. Now, he's not a big name, but it looks like Kenny is looking to him for back-up in CF (and maybe even competition for BA).

I'd certainly hope the Sox get a better backup outfielder/Gload PH replacement than Luis Terrero...

soxtalker
01-16-2007, 01:28 PM
This has been discussed over and over again, seemingly for 3 years now.

I think with some uncertainty about Uribe's status, there will be no way to trade him and a prospect to SF for Omar.

And KW can't afford to have that much money sunk into Uribe and Cintron sitting on the bench. If they didn't make him part of the Vizquel deal and KW was forced to deal Uribe out of desperation, KW would be raked over the coals and poked in the eye.

Ah... interesting point about the money. The uncertainty about Uribe's situation has two aspects -- the Sox need to be planning for a backup (to Cintron), but they can't just acquire someone for a lot of money that would sit on the bench. That would be consistent with the Sox exploring a possible trade for a minor league prospect like Aybar.

UserNameBlank
01-16-2007, 01:28 PM
I'd certainly hope the Sox get a better backup outfielder/Gload PH replacement than Luis Terrero...

What's not to like about Terrero? At worst he plays a few games in CF for Brian, doesn't hit, but plays above average defense.

Look at this:

Career 182 G; 434 AB; 48 R; 102 H; 21 2B; 1 3B; 9 HR; 40 RBI; 152 TB; 35 BB; 126 K; 13 SB; 7 CS; .311 OBP; .350 SLG; .235 AVG

**Edit: Here's Brian Anderson's career line so far:
147 G; 399 AB; 49 R; 88 H; 24 2B; 1 3B; 10 HR; 36 RBI; 144 TB; 30 BB; 102 K; 5 SB; 7 CS; .281 OBP; .361 SLG; .221 AVG

Besides more speed and supposedly a better arm for Terrero and a 2 year age advantage for Brian, both players are pretty similar so far.

That is his career line. 434 AB's? That is one season's worth of AB's spread out over 4. He was a highly touted player coming up and is only 26. He could be bust, but he also could be a huge surprise. He's not another Pablo Ozuna either; if this guy hits like Pablo he will become a starter.

IMO, this is just another great move by Kenny. At worst he doesn't hurt us; at best he is another huge steal. That said, I'd still like the Sox to sign a couple of guys to compete with him for the backup CF job, and I think they will sign at least one.

MRM
01-16-2007, 06:55 PM
Honestly, I would trade Crede & Floyd (or other pitcher) for Brandon Wood and Figgins. I think Wood will give you just as many numbers as crede would offensively and Figgins is going to give you better numbers than Uribe with a ton more speed.

Huh? Wood has a definate upside, but he's NO WHERE NEAR ready to put up Crede-like numbers at the MLB level. He strikes out once every three times at the plate and hit below .280 at the AA level. What do you think MLB pitchers would do to him right now? I'd have NO problem getting him (he has a very bright future), but he would NOT...repeat...would NOT be playing SS for the Sox this year. He's two years away from being an every day MLB player, at least. Figgins is a hack at 3B. Absolutely, positively NO WAY you want him as your every day 3B. Not to mention the often overlooked fact that Uribe is a VERY good defensive SS.

MRM
01-16-2007, 07:02 PM
You sit through an entire season with Uribe's type of at bats and you begin to realize that anyone who can marginally play shortstop is potentially better.

Why? Uribe is a very good defensive SS with power. He's certainly streaky, but you can live with that at SS. If he ever gets himself in shape and plays to his potential Uribe *could* be one of the best all around SS in the game. I know those are big ifs but a lot of teams have bigger problems at the position than the Sox.

MRM
01-16-2007, 07:07 PM
I don't quite understand the suggestion that KW might want to acquire Chone Figgins.

There were several Figgins rumors early in the offseason. One even had Crede for Figgins straight up. Absurd, I know, but that's what the "insiders" were spouting.

TaylorStSox
01-16-2007, 08:21 PM
The problem with Uribe is you really don't have room for both him and a rookie (like Anderson) to play all glove and no stick in the 8 and 9 role. Especially with Uribe taking a lot of plays off, not being a good base runner, not being anywhere near a situational hitter and letting balls fly out of his arm with no idea where they are headed. I will always be greatful for his catch in the world series, but I am done supporting Uribe. The same way I thank Blum for his homer, but don't want him on the 25 man again.

As for those who wonder about Aybar. He is great with the glove, has a soft stick, was a .280 hitter in triple A with some pop. Mostly impresses with his speed and his D. If you want to compare him to anyone, think Alex Gonzalez but with 15-20 stolen bases a year. Shouldnt ever hit more then .260 and isnt a patient hitter (draws few walks).



First, he's not that bad of a situational hitter, as evidenced by his ability to get guys in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Secondly, erratic throws are common for a guy with a cannon. It's one of the things you have to live with. Finally, if it's between Anderson and Uribe, I have to go with Uribe everytime. He's light years more advanced than Anderson. They're both elite defenders, but I don't envision Anderson ever having a year like Uribe's 04.

Craig Grebeck
01-16-2007, 10:56 PM
First, he's not that bad of a situational hitter, as evidenced by his ability to get guys in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Secondly, erratic throws are common for a guy with a cannon. It's one of the things you have to live with. Finally, if it's between Anderson and Uribe, I have to go with Uribe everytime. He's light years more advanced than Anderson. They're both elite defenders, but I don't envision Anderson ever having a year like Uribe's 04.
There's a word for Uribe's 04... F L U K E

caulfield12
01-17-2007, 03:44 AM
There's a word for Uribe's 04... F L U K E


Uribe is simply a very streaky and technically-flawed hitter. He has too many moving parts and bad habits. When he's locked in, he can hit anyone and everything (in almost every location), but he's one of the worst hitters I've ever seen when he's going bad.

Struggling Rowand, Anderson, Uribe and Crede all give each other a run for their money in terms of pathetic AB's, weak ground-outs, DP balls...I prefer Uribe's "home run trot" on balls to outfield, I at least get excited when he's up there, you never know what the hell will happen? Will he walk? Will he go back to the front leg kick? Will he fall down swinging, or at least collapse to one knee in his follow-through? When he gets good wood on the ball, it's a blast and a joy to watch...the ball leaps off his bat. Cintron can get an occasional bomb like that (remember KC or the big hits against the Indians?), but I much prefer Uribe's antics.

russ99
01-17-2007, 08:59 AM
What's not to like about Terrero? At worst he plays a few games in CF for Brian, doesn't hit, but plays above average defense.

Look at this:

Career 182 G; 434 AB; 48 R; 102 H; 21 2B; 1 3B; 9 HR; 40 RBI; 152 TB; 35 BB; 126 K; 13 SB; 7 CS; .311 OBP; .350 SLG; .235 AVG

**Edit: Here's Brian Anderson's career line so far:
147 G; 399 AB; 49 R; 88 H; 24 2B; 1 3B; 10 HR; 36 RBI; 144 TB; 30 BB; 102 K; 5 SB; 7 CS; .281 OBP; .361 SLG; .221 AVG

Besides more speed and supposedly a better arm for Terrero and a 2 year age advantage for Brian, both players are pretty similar so far.

That is his career line. 434 AB's? That is one season's worth of AB's spread out over 4. He was a highly touted player coming up and is only 26. He could be bust, but he also could be a huge surprise. He's not another Pablo Ozuna either; if this guy hits like Pablo he will become a starter.

IMO, this is just another great move by Kenny. At worst he doesn't hurt us; at best he is another huge steal. That said, I'd still like the Sox to sign a couple of guys to compete with him for the backup CF job, and I think they will sign at least one.

Good post. I didn't really know that about Terrero. Actually, Terrero had a pretty nice line in AAA last season:

G:84 AB:302 R:52 H:96 2B:21 3B:2 HR:16 RBI:44 SB:18 CS:9 BB:16 SO:61 HBP:8 AVG:.318 OBP:.367 SLG:.560

He's also had contiuned growth as a hitter for the last 4 seasons in the minors. He might be a steal if he can hit close to that AAA level in the majors.

I was expecting more of a '04 Timo Perez or '06 Gload as our backup outfielder, so maybe we'll still get someone like that to compete with Terrero.