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View Full Version : Sox make another move..... ZZZZZZZZZZ


stacksedwards
01-12-2007, 04:22 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070112soxtrade,1,4329139.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

SoxSideIrish
01-12-2007, 04:29 PM
Damn, I liked him too...

Does anyone know anything about this guy they got in return?

FedEx227
01-12-2007, 04:30 PM
Um, not too sure about this one. I thought Stewart was looking pretty good.

Although I suppose with Toby Hall he's expendable, but it's always nice to have a Plan C.

salty99
01-12-2007, 04:35 PM
we have an option C...Gustavo Molina.

CPditka
01-12-2007, 04:37 PM
As of March '06 he was listed in the Rangers top 10 prospects. What he throws is beyond me. Id like to see a scouting report.


This does leave us a little thin at catcher.

AZChiSoxFan
01-12-2007, 04:37 PM
Start the Stewart appreciation thread!!

tick53
01-12-2007, 04:37 PM
Eh! Another so-so prospect who will be banished to the minors.

SoxxoS
01-12-2007, 04:42 PM
Ill take a power arm for a career backup catcher (at best) any day.

michned
01-12-2007, 04:49 PM
Start the Stewart appreciation thread!!

Ahh yes, I remember when he gave my son one of his broken bats...(really happened!)

SOX ADDICT '73
01-12-2007, 05:03 PM
I agree with the last part of this thread title. We've been spoiled by Kenny's off-season moves over the past two years, and this winter's acquisitions have been somewhat underwhelming. I'm not saying I want to see him make an idiotic move like the Cubs (Soriano, Lily, et al) or the Giants (:smokin:). But how 'bout at least one trade or signing that will give us some immediate return and a reason to puff out our chests a teensy bit, rather than saying "Hey, watch out for those stud Sox pitchers in 2010!"

Domeshot17
01-12-2007, 05:09 PM
By Spring Training we may have every underachieving minor league pitcher in baseball in our system.

Corlose 15
01-12-2007, 05:11 PM
I agree with the last part of this thread title. We've been spoiled by Kenny's off-season moves over the past two years, and this winter's acquisitions have been somewhat underwhelming. I'm not saying I want to see him make an idiotic move like the Cubs (Soriano, Lily, et al) or the Giants (:smokin:). But how 'bout at least one trade or signing that will give us some immediate return and a reason to puff out our chests a teensy bit, rather than saying "Hey, watch out for those stud Sox pitchers in 2010!"

You mean like adding talented pitchers to solidify the bullpen or adding a solid catcher to give them one of the best C tandems in the league?:smile:

Stewart is 25 and wasn't likely to contribute this year, and the Sox have Molina if they need him. C isn't exactly a glaring hole.

Domeshot17
01-12-2007, 05:16 PM
You mean like adding talented pitchers to solidify the bullpen or adding a solid catcher to give them one of the best C tandems in the league?:smile:

Stewart is 25 and wasn't likely to contribute this year, and the Sox have Molina if they need him. C isn't exactly a glaring hole.

Lets not kid ourselves, our bullpen is still a MAJOR question mark. We replaced our holes with a few kids who throw hard and had era's over 6 last year and 1 promising prospect who might have to cover the role of 5th sp if Floyd does not work out.

Fungo
01-12-2007, 05:21 PM
Here's Baseball America's report on him back in the '04 draft...

• New Mexico JC had five pitchers who topped 90 mph, led by RHP John Lujan, whose fastball registered mostly 91-93 but topped out at 95. He was among the national leaders with a sub-1.00 ERA before his final outing and finished 11-2, 1.61 with 103 strikeouts in 78 innings. But he had so-so command of three pitches.

SABRSox
01-12-2007, 05:22 PM
Ugh. I really like Stewart's arm behind the plate. I wish he could have learned to hit.

The move makes sense, though. A little nugget from the Winter Leagues:

Texas Rangers (http://www.kffl.com/team/69/mlb) P prospect John Lujan (http://www.kffl.com/player/13530/mlb) went 1-1 with a 0.00 ERA in 19.2 innings in the Puerto Rican Winter League, fanning 14 and walking four. He gave up just eight hits and one unearned run.

HomeFish
01-12-2007, 05:23 PM
Wonderful. I love that we are stockpiling way more pitching prospects than we need to fill the holes in our bullpen; chances are that one or two of these guys are going to have an effective year, and the more of them we get, the higher and higher that chance gets.

You can never have enough pitching. I hope Kenny keeps getting guys like this, as well as perhaps signing a veteran FA or two for the bullpen. Even if we get only half a good season out of him, it'll still be worth it to plug our biggest weakness.

Corlose 15
01-12-2007, 05:30 PM
Lets not kid ourselves, our bullpen is still a MAJOR question mark. We replaced our holes with a few kids who throw hard and had era's over 6 last year and 1 promising prospect who might have to cover the role of 5th sp if Floyd does not work out.

Lets not kid ourselves the other way. Floyd most likely won't be in the bullpen and Sisco was the only other one with an ERA over 6. He also had a very successfull season in 2005 with Kansas City. Not to mention he is only 23 and was rushed to the majors because of his rule 5 status. If he was tipping his pitches like KW said he'll improve this year.

Massett's era was over 4 in his 8 appearnces last year, an admittedly small sample size but if his stuff is a "tick" below Jenks then you have to be willing to give him a chance.

Aardsma's era was 4.13 last year and 1.72 in September and teams hit .214 against him for the year.

These guys are still a question mark but I'm pretty confident they can all do better than Politte's 8+ ERA last year and Cotts as well.

At some point you have to trust that KW actually knows a little something about baseball.

FedEx227
01-12-2007, 05:55 PM
Damn, I'm liking those winter league stats. And hey, you can never have enough pitching. I forgot about Molina, so I sorta retract my previous post. Not a bad move, we'll see how it pans out in a couple of years.

the gooch
01-12-2007, 06:04 PM
sounds like we bought high.

JB98
01-12-2007, 06:10 PM
This is a no-risk move. We're covered at catcher. Maybe the pitching prospect will pan out.

soxstarter
01-12-2007, 06:58 PM
No complaints here.

Rockabilly
01-12-2007, 07:09 PM
This opens up a roster spot.

Does anyone else think that KW will make another move soon..

cwsfannick
01-12-2007, 07:11 PM
Ok, according to the article Stewart was 0-8 in six games with the Sox. How does that happen?

Ok reading comprehension 101 it was the catcher we brought up last year. That's too bad he has a pretty decent arm. I remember him throwing a few runners out in his short stint with us as a September call up. Good luck Stewart.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-12-2007, 07:11 PM
This opens up a roster spot.

Does anyone else think that KW will make another move soon..

Why not?

KRS1
01-12-2007, 07:22 PM
I really liked Stewart, but we got a good power arm for him, and I'm alright with that.

About Lujan. There's a Rangers prospect blog from mlb.com http://rangersfarmreport.mlblogs.com/rangersfarmreport/2006/05/rangers_farm_re_1.html , and there was this little tidbit about him there...

Over the winter, Lujan virtually erased any notion that his huge August was just a fluke. He went off to the Puerto Rico Winter League where he exploded, tossing 20 scoreless innings while holding the league to a miserable .131 average. That’s right: 20 innings, no runs. None. And his fastball sat at 97 mph.


His numbers last season were underwhelming to say the least, but Kenny seems to be going with the scouting pitchers on their stuff philosophy.

cws05champ
01-12-2007, 07:38 PM
I really liked Stewart, but we got a good power arm for him, and I'm alright with that.

About Lujan. There's a Rangers prospect blog from mlb.com http://rangersfarmreport.mlblogs.com/rangersfarmreport/2006/05/rangers_farm_re_1.html , and there was this little tidbit about him there...



His numbers last season were underwhelming to say the least, but Kenny seems to be going with the scouting pitchers on their stuff philosophy.

It looks like this blog was from May 2006, so it would have been from last year winter ball, not this year. Does anyone know of more recent stuff?

DickAllen72
01-12-2007, 07:48 PM
This opens up a roster spot.

Does anyone else think that KW will make another move soon..
Well, tomorrow is White Sox Saturday..... :cool:

DumpJerry
01-12-2007, 07:51 PM
Wonderful. I love that we are stockpiling way more pitching prospects than we need to fill the holes in our bullpen; chances are that one or two of these guys are going to have an effective year, and the more of them we get, the higher and higher that chance gets.

You can never have enough pitching. I hope Kenny keeps getting guys like this, as well as perhaps signing a veteran FA or two for the bullpen. Even if we get only half a good season out of him, it'll still be worth it to plug our biggest weakness.
Hmmm....Homefish likes the deal.

I'm worried.

Domeshot17
01-12-2007, 08:07 PM
Lets not kid ourselves the other way. Floyd most likely won't be in the bullpen and Sisco was the only other one with an ERA over 6. He also had a very successfull season in 2005 with Kansas City. Not to mention he is only 23 and was rushed to the majors because of his rule 5 status. If he was tipping his pitches like KW said he'll improve this year.

Massett's era was over 4 in his 8 appearnces last year, an admittedly small sample size but if his stuff is a "tick" below Jenks then you have to be willing to give him a chance.

Aardsma's era was 4.13 last year and 1.72 in September and teams hit .214 against him for the year.

These guys are still a question mark but I'm pretty confident they can all do better than Politte's 8+ ERA last year and Cotts as well.

At some point you have to trust that KW actually knows a little something about baseball.

I do trust in Kenny, Im not saying the bullpen is a farce like 90% of America has been. I have said for while now, I am reserving judgement. I don't feel confident in the bullpen, but I don't feel like its terrible, I just don't know yet. I would have liked to see us get an established arm (i.e. Jamie Walker) and then add some prospects to the mix. If this was any other GM, I would hate it, but Kdubs gets the benfiet of the doubt because of guys like Mikey Mac and Thorton.

JB98
01-12-2007, 08:28 PM
I do trust in Kenny, Im not saying the bullpen is a farce like 90% of America has been. I have said for while now, I am reserving judgement. I don't feel confident in the bullpen, but I don't feel like its terrible, I just don't know yet. I would have liked to see us get an established arm (i.e. Jamie Walker) and then add some prospects to the mix. If this was any other GM, I would hate it, but Kdubs gets the benfiet of the doubt because of guys like Mikey Mac and Thorton.

Jamie Walker was not worth the money he got. $4 million a year to come in and get one left-handed hitter out in the seventh inning? No thanks.

soxwon
01-12-2007, 08:45 PM
As of March '06 he was listed in the Rangers top 10 prospects. What he throws is beyond me. Id like to see a scouting report.


This does leave us a little thin at catcher.

wheres ben davis or mark salas?

dwalteroo
01-12-2007, 10:43 PM
If I had a nickel for every minor league pitcher the Sox have acquired this year, I'd have enough money to sign a free agent starter. :tongue:

SOX ADDICT '73
01-12-2007, 11:38 PM
You mean like adding talented pitchers to solidify the bullpen or adding a solid catcher to give them one of the best C tandems in the league?:smile:

Stewart is 25 and wasn't likely to contribute this year, and the Sox have Molina if they need him. C isn't exactly a glaring hole.
I wasn't criticizing this deal in and of itself, nor did I have any emotional investment in Chris Stewart to the point that I'd lament his departure.

My post was more of a reference to this offseason's lack of exciting/intriguing moves, moves that make the Sox immediately better, when compared to 2005 (Dye, Iguchi, El Duque, Pierzynski, Pods) and 2006 (Thome, Vazquez, Mackoviak, Cintron, Thornton*, and re-signing PK). I attended my first Sox Fest in 2005 because I was excited about what the team was doing. I returned in 2006, partly to bask in the glory of a WS Championship, but also because I thought the aforementioned acquisitions gave us a really good chance to repeat.

I'm all for moves that bring "solid" players that "solidify" positions, and I don't think any of these were necessarily bad deals (only time will tell, but I trust Kenny unreservedly). "Solid" is great, but I'm afraid it just doesn't get me chomping at the bit for Spring Training to begin.



*The Thornton deal was only "exciting" in that we were able to get more than a bag of balls in exchange for Borchard. If Matt hadn't struck out a single batter and posted an ERA over 12.00 in '06, we'd still have come out on the better end of that trade.

salty99
01-13-2007, 12:02 AM
wheres ben davis or mark salas?

You can see Mark Salas every day next year in our bullpen.

DrCrawdad
01-13-2007, 12:54 AM
I read thru this discussion looking for Daver's comments on this deal. Daver, where are you?

http://www.pbs.org/theydrewfire/gallery/small/img/029.jpg

KyWhiSoxFan
01-13-2007, 08:17 AM
My reaction to the trade of Stewart is whether it affects Charlie Heager. Stewart was probably not going to make the roster with the acquisition of Toby Hall, but Stewart caught Haeger in AAA and that experience may be worth something one day in the future, particularly since Stewart has a strong arm, which is needed with a knuckler. I like Haeger a lot and don't want to see him compromised in any way by this trade.

Juice16
01-13-2007, 10:20 AM
Lets not kid ourselves, our bullpen is still a MAJOR question mark. We replaced our holes with a few kids who throw hard and had era's over 6 last year and 1 promising prospect who might have to cover the role of 5th sp if Floyd does not work out.

I agree, I don't know where this notion started that we improved our bullpen. Nobody has proven themselves yet. I'm glad we have Mac for a whole season but he did get shelled a few outings. I think the only upgrade the team has made is backup catcher. I think we all hope the newbies in the pen will come through but I don't get how you can call this an upgrade yet.

soxtalker
01-13-2007, 10:46 AM
Nice deal all around. Helps Texas and Stewart. And from many reports, we need to upgrade our lower minor league teams.

ondafarm
01-13-2007, 11:43 AM
Great deal for Stewart. He will probably get a good shot in Texas and he may even catch McCarthy. By signing Hall, the Sox probably had him relagated to Charlotte and now he has a legit shot at major league time.

santo=dorf
01-13-2007, 11:48 AM
I agree, I don't know where this notion started that we improved our bullpen. Nobody has proven themselves yet. I'm glad we have Mac for a whole season but he did get shelled a few outings. I think the only upgrade the team has made is backup catcher. I think we all hope the newbies in the pen will come through but I don't get how you can call this an upgrade yet.
I didn't realize a relief pitchers getting shelled a few outings is some abnormal. I only see 3 outings in two months where MacDougal didn't pitch too well. Care to elaborate on this more about a guy who had a 1.55 ERA for us? :?:

We don't have Politte and his 8 ERA, Cotts and his 5 ERA, B.Mac and his sky high HR rate (he wasn't that good,) and Riske was average.
They have been replace with Aardsma, Sisco (possible,) Haeger (I hope,) and Masset. Even if those 4 guys make it we will have a 12 man staff.

Jurr
01-13-2007, 12:37 PM
If I'm reading this correctly, it seems like the Sox are of the notion that the 2006 team was really good enough to make the playoffs/WS, but failed due to pitching fatigue from 2005 and a slight lack of hunger.

Think about it. You've got speed at the leadoff position, bats up and down the lineup, and gas in your 'pen. This team is built to be a contender.

If Buehrle alone would have had a typical Buehrle year, this team would've made the playoffs. They were pretty damn close.

You've gotta think that Anderson is going to be better than last year. He's growing at a faster rate than either Crede or Rowand did at the same point. It took both of those guys 3 years to begin to make noise. Anderson was turning it around halfway through his freshman year with the club.

So, taking an objective look at things, this team should be pretty salty. They're all rested, hungry, and ready to perform. The bullpen's loaded, we have one question mark at the fifth slot, and away we go.

While teams like the Cubs made a number of moves to get fans excited, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to translate to wins. The Sox are, at least on paper, just as good if not better than the team that began 2005.

DumpJerry
01-13-2007, 01:23 PM
From some of the responses here, you'd think it was AJ and Konerko we traded for Lujan.

You would also think that KW announced that Politte and Cotts are pitching at least one inning each in 150+ games next year.

This is a tade of two minor leaguers. It is not a "major" trade. I'm feeling real good about the upcoming season. Don't make any social plans for October, we're gonna be watching some White Sox baseball!

California Sox
01-13-2007, 01:23 PM
I've always liked Stewart but I think this is a pretty good gamble. You get a guy with some upside, but a low probability for reaching that potential for a guy who doesn't have a ton of potential but will probably play in the bigs for a while. In addition to Molina, Sox also seem to like Donny Lucy. He hasn't hit much, but Stewart isn't exactly a Silver Slugger candidate either. Hopefully a good trade for both teams.

DumpJerry
01-13-2007, 01:30 PM
While teams like the Cubs made a number of moves to get fans excited, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to translate to wins. The Sox are, at least on paper, just as good if not better than the team that began 2005.
Ding ding ding...we have a winner. The Cubs (66 wins in 2006) and the White Sox (90 wins in 2006) are in two very different positions. The Cubs and other sub-75 win teams need to completely re-tool their teams to make them not only win more games, but show up on April 2nd able to convince their fan bases that they can win 15+ more games (10% of the season) this year. The Sox and the other 6 or so teams in the elite of MLB have very little to convince their fans of since they only need to win 6 or 7 (4% of the season) more games this year which is entirely different.

It is one thing for the Sox to look at 7 games they lost last year which could have been won (thus giving them the division title) and the Cubs to point to 18 such games for their division title.

Daver
01-13-2007, 01:34 PM
I read thru this discussion looking for Daver's comments on this deal. Daver, where are you?



I'm here.

Not much to say really, trading a player that is never going to make your 25 man roster for a pitcher with good potential is a good deal to make.

Juice16
01-13-2007, 01:51 PM
I didn't realize a relief pitchers getting shelled a few outings is some abnormal. I only see 3 outings in two months where MacDougal didn't pitch too well. Care to elaborate on this more about a guy who had a 1.55 ERA for us? :?:

We don't have Politte and his 8 ERA, Cotts and his 5 ERA, B.Mac and his sky high HR rate (he wasn't that good,) and Riske was average.
They have been replace with Aardsma, Sisco (possible,) Haeger (I hope,) and Masset. Even if those 4 guys make it we will have a 12 man staff.

Again, we have a possible, I hope, and two unproven kids. Just like we didn't expect Politte and Cotts two blow up last year, we can't expect this year to be different until it happens. My point is that you cannot assume these moves have made the bullpen better. My MacDougal comment ment that he too can have a bad outing and we can't assume he will be lights out for the year( see Politte and Cotts).

esbrechtel
01-13-2007, 01:58 PM
i like the move...it seems like KW and texas are getting chummy.....how about we give them uribe for young...:redneck

UserNameBlank
01-13-2007, 03:09 PM
sounds like we bought high.

So did Texas.

jacobwalls
01-13-2007, 05:19 PM
.Theres already a thread, please close.

itsnotrequired
01-13-2007, 05:21 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=83173

jacobwalls
01-13-2007, 05:22 PM
sorry didnt see please close this thread.

spiffie
01-13-2007, 05:25 PM
These are the types of moves that make a good GM. The ability to figure out who is going to be that diamond in the rough. I love the fact that the Sox seem to be trading for as many power arms as they can get. Sure, no pitcher is a sure thing, but I'd rather gamble on guys with great stuff who need work than finesse pitchers who have to be perfect to succeed. Sure, sometimes they turn out great (look at Buehrle), but especially in the relief corps, I'd rather take a chance with guys who just need tweaking, which it sounds like is the case with Lujan.

Another great move for Kenny Williams!

#11
01-13-2007, 07:33 PM
I think this is a very reasonable move. KW traded away a catcher who likely would never be more than an OK backup, and picked up a kid who maybe, maybe, maybe will crack the rotation in a few years. In short, he traded a no-impact player for a maybe-impact player. Not a huge deal, but what's not to like?

11

lakeviewsoxfan
01-13-2007, 07:35 PM
:welcome:
I think this is a very reasonable move. KW traded away a catcher who likely would never be more than an OK backup, and picked up a kid who maybe, maybe, maybe will crack the rotation in a few years. In short, he traded a no-impact player for a maybe-impact player. Not a huge deal, but what's not to like?

11

:welcome:

I agree.

maurice
01-16-2007, 05:03 PM
The Hall signing pretty much closed the door on any chance that Stewart would play for the Sox. He was blocked and needed to be traded sooner or later.

Stewart caught Haeger in AAA

No, he didn't. Haeger's turn in the rotation was Stewart's day off. His backups got stuck with knuckleball duty.

102605
01-16-2007, 05:26 PM
From Rotoworld:

"They'll now be looking to sign a veteran catcher to stash away in Triple-A."


Seems right. Any thoughts on plan C for us? :smile:

caulfield12
01-16-2007, 05:42 PM
Might as well be Francisco Hernandez....lol. Donny "I Love" Lucy?

It's not going to be Gustavo Molina.

Can we dig up Karko or Merullo? Maybe Mark Johnson for a second go-around?