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chaerulez
01-09-2007, 02:03 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/01/08/hof.vote.ap/index.html

I found this to be an interesting read. I've never been a fan of the baseball HOF process. I agree Ripken and Gwynn aren't anyone special over Seaver, Aaron, Ruth, DiMaggio, etc. that they deserve a uniamous HOF selection. With that said though, if people send in blank ballots or send in ballots that obviously aren't being taken seriously, shouldn't something be done about that? Such as when Greg Maddux retires, with steroids he's pretty much the next "clean HOF lock", how could anyone NOT vote for him? I've heard some players in the HOF will also send back blank ballots because of their arrogance. That shouldn't be accepted behavior either. Another thing is they should change who gets on the ballot. Why are players like Dante Bichette, Jose Rijo, Bobby Witt, and Eric Davis even on them. They had decent careers, but no sane baseball fan would say they belong in Cooperstown.

fquaye149
01-09-2007, 02:12 AM
this is bull****.

Tony Gwynn is a fatass. He clearly did not work out, much less use steroids

I think this is mostly these writers do not want gwynn or ripken to be the first unanimous choices, more than some stupid "steroids" statment...

That is ****ing bull****. This is the same bull**** that kept Aaron from going unanimously (minus, of course the racism).

If a man is a HOFER, like Ripken and Gwynn so ****ing very ****ing clearly are, VOTE THEM.

These ****ing cowards are just looking for an excuse

fquaye149
01-09-2007, 02:14 AM
"What makes Gwynn and Ripken so special that they deserve to be unanimous selections?" he wrote.

Gee, maybe that they were CLEARLY HALL OF FAMERS.

Can anyone with a clear mind and understanding of the game of baseball say that Gwynn and Ripken don't deserve to be in.

I wish that baseball writers would just go live in someone's lower intestines like the parasites they are.

Baseball writers make me physically sick to my stomach....this is a disgrace

chaerulez
01-09-2007, 02:25 AM
I'm glad at least someone agrees with me. I actually though many people here would disagree that the HOF process needs to be changed because of tradition and all. I can't believe Willie Mays, who some consider to be the greatest all around player ever, was off 23 ballots. I don't think it even mentioned how many Mantle was left off of, and he is another player who people would say was the greatest all around player ever. I also forgot about Rickey Henderson, so he's actually the next "clean HOF lock" not Maddux.

ewokpelts
01-09-2007, 02:27 AM
this is bull****.

Tony Gwynn is a fatass. He clearly did not work out, much less use steroids

I think this is mostly these writers do not want gwynn or ripken to be the first unanimous choices, more than some stupid "steroids" statment...

That is ****ing bull****. This is the same bull**** that kept Aaron from going unanimously (minus, of course the racism).

If a man is a HOFER, like Ripken and Gwynn so ****ing very ****ing clearly are, VOTE THEM.

These ****ing cowards are just looking for an excuse
aaron had the highest percentage EVER for hof voting...99.9%

SouthSide_HitMen
01-09-2007, 03:36 AM
The Hall of Fame is too watered down at this point (and Pete Rose was subsequently barred from a vote after they changed the rule) so I don't get too worked up over it.

Ewok, Aaron received 97.83%, good enough for the fifth (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/full_pct&desc.htm) highest percentage all time.

Babe Ruth & Honus Wagner (95.13%), Willie Mays (94.68%) and Ted Williams (93.38%) are among the best players ever and they were left off of ballots. Gwynn and Ripken were excellent but they are not any better than the above mentioned players. Clemens, Henderson (and in my opinion Raines) should be first ballot HOFers as well but I am sure they will also be left off of a few ballots. If you are elected on your first ballot, that is the highest honor you can receive.

There are too many players in the HOF who shouldn't be. The Veterans Committee went overboard and then you have announcers, Negro League players (and the wife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effa_Manley) of an owner (too over herself the final couple of years after her husband died) who made it over Minoso and Buck O'Neill), umpires, owners, managers, etc.. The BBWAA selection process is a flawed process, but they are better guardians of the hall than the other processes who let in too many IMO.

ewokpelts
01-09-2007, 07:43 AM
too over herself the final couple of years after her husband died.what ?

ewokpelts
01-09-2007, 07:44 AM
The Hall of Fame is too watered down at this point (and Pete Rose was subsequently barred from a vote after they changed the rule) so I don't get too worked up over it.

Ewok, Aaron received 97.83%, good enough for the fifth (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/full_pct&desc.htm) highest percentage all time.

Babe Ruth & Honus Wagner (95.13%), Willie Mays (94.68%) and Ted Williams (93.38%) are among the best players ever and they were left off of ballots. Gwynn and Ripken were excellent but they are not any better than the above mentioned players. Clemens, Henderson (and in my opinion Raines) should be first ballot HOFers as well but I am sure they will also be left off of a few ballots. If you are elected on your first ballot, that is the highest honor you can receive.

There are too many players in the HOF who shouldn't be. The Veterans Committee went overboard and then you have announcers, Negro League players (and the wife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effa_Manley) of an owner (too over herself the final couple of years after her husband died) who made it over Minoso and Buck O'Neill), umpires, owners, managers, etc.. The BBWAA selection process is a flawed process, but they are better guardians of the hall than the other processes who let in too many IMO.
Wife of a negro league owner? Who was WHITE and acted black? HOFer and not Minnie Moniso? What is this world coming to?

fquaye149
01-09-2007, 10:19 AM
The Hall of Fame is too watered down at this point (and Pete Rose was subsequently barred from a vote after they changed the rule) so I don't get too worked up over it.

Ewok, Aaron received 97.83%, good enough for the fifth (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/full_pct&desc.htm) highest percentage all time.

Babe Ruth & Honus Wagner (95.13%), Willie Mays (94.68%) and Ted Williams (93.38%) are among the best players ever and they were left off of ballots. Gwynn and Ripken were excellent but they are not any better than the above mentioned players. Clemens, Henderson (and in my opinion Raines) should be first ballot HOFers as well but I am sure they will also be left off of a few ballots. If you are elected on your first ballot, that is the highest honor you can receive.

There are too many players in the HOF who shouldn't be. The Veterans Committee went overboard and then you have announcers, Negro League players (and the wife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effa_Manley) of an owner (too over herself the final couple of years after her husband died) who made it over Minoso and Buck O'Neill), umpires, owners, managers, etc.. The BBWAA selection process is a flawed process, but they are better guardians of the hall than the other processes who let in too many IMO.

I'm not saying they deserved to be 100% more than the ones you mentioned.

I just think it's bull**** all the players you mentioned were left off ballots....this is just this year's edition of the bull****.

If you're a voter this shoudl be your thought process: "Was this player a hall of famer"?

Not "I wonder how I can effect history."

This is (apocryphally) the same mentality that got Woodson the Heisman over Woodson....sure it probably doesn't matter this time that Ladewski sent in a blank ballot as a grand statement...but what if enough do? Then all of a sudden two clear first ballot hofers don't make it and that makes me:whiner:

SouthSide_HitMen
01-09-2007, 11:12 AM
I'm not saying they deserved to be 100% more than the ones you mentioned.

I just think it's bull**** all the players you mentioned were left off ballots....this is just this year's edition of the bull****.

If you're a voter this shoudl be your thought process: "Was this player a hall of famer"?

Not "I wonder how I can effect history."

This is (apocryphally) the same mentality that got Woodson the Heisman over Woodson....sure it probably doesn't matter this time that Ladewski sent in a blank ballot as a grand statement...but what if enough do? Then all of a sudden two clear first ballot hofers don't make it and that makes me:whiner:

Yes, your points are valid, I'm just giving my take on the flawed process. I would rather have people error on the side of voting no (see Tony Perez) though they go overboard at times (3 ballots for Joe DiMaggio!? ***)

I do agree with you Ripken and Gwynn (and Henderson, Raines (which they may **** up) are no brainer first ballot HOFers. Ripken will be around 95% and Gwynn around 92 or 93%, both higher than any vote total in this decade (though they are also the best candidates).

I do like the fact the BBWAA are very strict as seen with the vote totals below (which is why I view these HOFers as upper tier vs. Veterans Committee choices except for a handful of early selections (Ed Walsh, Lou Gehrig who made it via special selection, a couple of others).

(Yes / No - How I would have voted on the ballot they entered)

2000 Carlton Fisk 79.56% (2nd Ballot) Yes
2000 Tony Perez 77.15% (9th Ballot) No
2001 Kirby Puckett 82.14% (1st Ballot) No
2001 Dave Winfield 84.47% (1st Ballot) Yes
2002 Ozzie Smith 91.74% (1st Ballot) Yes
2003 Gary Carter 78.02% (6th Ballot) Yes
2003 Eddie Murray 85.28% (1st Ballot) Yes
2004 Dennis Eckersley 83.20% (1st Ballot) Yes
2004 Paul Molitor 85.18% (1st Ballot) Yes grudgingly
2005 Wade Boggs 91.86% (1st Ballot) Yes
2005 Ryne Sandberg 76.16% (3rd Ballot) Yes
2006 Bruce Sutter 76.92% (13th Ballot) No

My vote total is 9 of 12 (75%) for the players who entered.

My 2007 Ballot: Blyleven, Gossage, Gwynn, Rose, Ripken, Smith, Trammell.

Future eligible (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hof_weekend/future_elections.htm) players on my ballot: Raines & Henderson

SABRSox
01-09-2007, 11:26 AM
My 2007 Ballot: Blyleven, Gossage, Gwynn, Rose, Ripken, Smith, Trammell.

Future eligible (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hof_weekend/future_elections.htm) players on my ballot: Raines & Henderson

Wow, putting Pete Rose into the hall. Can't say I agree with that, but otherwise I like that list.

fquaye149
01-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Wow, putting Pete Rose into the hall. Can't say I agree with that, but otherwise I like that list.

well it's kind of a quixotic statement:redneck

chaerulez
01-09-2007, 02:35 PM
It's sad that Gossage, Rice, and Dawson are still struggling to make it in. I think Gossage is a victim of playing with too many teams in his career. Rice I believe was never a media friendly guy, and his stats are well in line with the current HOFers that are in as left fielders. As for Dawson he just had the unfortunate fate of playing for the Expos, then playing for several crappy Cubs teams and that '89 Cubs team was I think his only postseason exposure. It's a shame that it's likely these three guys are not getting in anytime soon if ever.

Frontman
01-09-2007, 06:50 PM
aaron had the highest percentage EVER for hof voting...99.9%

And the nimrod who didn't vote for him should of never been allowed to vote again.

PKalltheway
01-09-2007, 09:37 PM
As for Dawson he just had the unfortunate fate of playing for the Expos, then playing for several crappy Cubs teams and that '89 Cubs team was I think his only postseason exposure. It's a shame that it's likely these three guys are not getting in anytime soon if ever.
Not to be picky, but Dawson made it to the NLCS with the Expos in 1981.