PDA

View Full Version : Buerhle on 670 this morning


DaveIsHere
01-06-2007, 04:45 PM
Surprised no one posted this, but Mark was on Whitesox Weekly this morning.

He was about to head to Jamaica for a week, but said a few things.

-He has hired a new Personal Trainer and is changing his offseason training.

-Wasn't tired last season and had no injuires, but did say his lower back was hurting him, but only when he wasnt pitching.

-About wearing the Cardinal hats: said he was always a Cardinal fan, but is a White Sox player 100%

-If the Cardinals and White Sox offered him the same deal he would stay with the Sox. He has always been with us and would always like to be a White Sox.

If I remember anything else I will post it.

:gulp:

ondafarm
01-06-2007, 05:07 PM
-He has hired a new Personal Trainer and is changing his offseason training.

-About wearing the Cardinal hats: said he was always a Cardinal fan, but is a White Sox player 100%



These are exceptionally good things to hear. I predict he will win 20 games this season.

caulfield12
01-06-2007, 05:10 PM
These are exceptionally good things to hear. I predict he will win 20 games this season.


I think he will win 22 games, beat Santana for the Cy Young AND agree to pitch for $11 million in 2008 as a personal favor to JR in order to keep the payroll down and allow the White Sox to keep Jermaine in the fold.

UserNameBlank
01-06-2007, 05:15 PM
Is it safe to imply that by his comments he is already dead set on testing the FA market?

batmanZoSo
01-06-2007, 05:19 PM
I think he will win 22 games, beat Santana for the Cy Young AND agree to pitch for $11 million in 2008 as a personal favor to JR in order to keep the payroll down and allow the White Sox to keep Jermaine in the fold.

I predict that Pink Floyd will reunite for good and play a show in my back yard.

veeter
01-06-2007, 05:20 PM
Is it safe to imply that by his comments he is already dead set on testing the FA market?I agree he'll probably test the market, but based on his comments?

AJ Hellraiser
01-06-2007, 05:22 PM
No surprises there... he has said EVERY offseason that he is a Cardinals fan through and through but he is a White Sox player and I remember him saying he'd take a slightly smaller contract to stay with the Sox... Personally, I've never understood why his Cardinals loyalties are such a major problem... The only time it should ever make a difference would be in a World Series matchip and I highly doubt Mark would pitch poorly in a game and LET the Cards win one...

All that being said, I am all about trading Mark and have been since the beginning of last season... I appreciate all he's done for the White Sox organization but with a good season this year he is due $20 mill per based on the current contract rates... when right, he is a true ace in terms of wins and innings pitched ... if we trade him at the right time, we can get more for him than any of our other starters

Call me crazy, but I also think part of his problem is that the AL has figured him out somewhat... all offspeed stuff only works for so long against the same teams... in addition, Questec hasn't helped either... this was the first year we had it at the Cell and he struggled there this year big time...

Vernam
01-06-2007, 05:30 PM
I think he will win 22 games, beat Santana for the Cy Young AND agree to pitch for $11 million in 2008 as a personal favor to JR in order to keep the payroll down and allow the White Sox to keep Jermaine in the fold.You forgot, "Hand a tear-eyed JR the ball from the final out of the 2007 World Series at a downtown rally attended by 3 million Sox fans and 2 million former Cub fans." :redneck

I heard the interview, and Buehrle sounded completely sincere about the Sox vs. Cards thing. I wish people would put that to bed and quit repeating as fact the rumor that he's dying to join the Cards. I never believed it, if for no other reason than Ozzie is a lot more fung than LaRussa.

Vernam

crazyozzie02
01-06-2007, 05:37 PM
You forgot, "Hand a tear-eyed JR the ball from the final out of the 2007 World Series at a downtown rally attended by 3 million Sox fans and 2 million former Cub fans." :redneck

I heard the interview, and Buehrle sounded completely sincere about the Sox vs. Cards thing. I wish people would put that to bed and quit repeating as fact the rumor that he's dying to join the Cards. I never believed it, if for no other reason than Ozzie is a lot more fung than LaRussa.

Vernam

People tell me that im really fung to me around too.

SoxFanPrope
01-06-2007, 05:44 PM
People tell me that im really fung to me around too.
I think the typo was on purpose.

AJ Hellraiser
01-06-2007, 05:45 PM
You forgot, "Hand a tear-eyed JR the ball from the final out of the 2007 World Series at a downtown rally attended by 3 million Sox fans

Vernam


Ummmm, pretty sure it was Paul Konerko that handed JR the ball...

caulfield12
01-06-2007, 05:46 PM
Ummmm, pretty sure it was Paul Konerko that handed JR the ball...


You're not paying attention.

This is what Buehrle is supposed to do after we win the WS in 2007. That was 2005.

Maybe every post around here needs to be in teal.

AJ Hellraiser
01-06-2007, 05:52 PM
MY BAD... sorry about that...

esbrechtel
01-06-2007, 05:53 PM
I predict that Pink Floyd will reunite for good and play a show in my back yard.

sweet can i get an invite...Ill bring a copy of The Wizard of OZ and some Miller...:gulp:

BTW i also heard him this morn, nothing too ground breaking....i have always liked him i hope he gets back on track and sticks around for the rest of his career...

Vernam
01-06-2007, 05:56 PM
I think the typo was on purpose.Binggo! :wink:

To paraphrase DSpivack in the "Got a Joke (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1451074&highlight=mushroom#post1451074)?" thread: Compared to Ozzie, even a mushroom isn't a fung guy.

Vernam

Hitmen77
01-06-2007, 05:59 PM
I think he will win 22 games, beat Santana for the Cy Young AND agree to pitch for $11 million in 2008 as a personal favor to JR in order to keep the payroll down and allow the White Sox to keep Jermaine in the fold.

I think this is how your post should look.:wink:

robertks61
01-06-2007, 06:02 PM
I predict that Pink Floyd will reunite for good and play a show in my back yard.

With Syd Barret?

Hitmen77
01-06-2007, 06:08 PM
Surprised no one posted this, but Mark was on Whitesox Weekly this morning.

.....

-If the Cardinals and White Sox offered him the same deal he would stay with the Sox. He has always been with us and would always like to be a White Sox.

If I remember anything else I will post it.

:gulp:

Yes, he said then and then I think he said something like "but the Sox do not seem to be going in that direction". He was cutting out at the time, so someone correct me if I heard this wrong.

I was sort of hoping Chris Rongey would have explored the contract question a little more. The interview left me with some questions:

- He's saying he will let the Sox match any highest offer - even from the Cardinals. But, what about contract extension talks? Any progress there? Is he interested in an extension? Are the Sox? Both? Neither?

IMO, Buehrle staying with the Sox will come down to whether they can agree to an extension. Once he goes to FA, unless the market changes from this offseason, he's going to be offered some insane long term contract by somebody. If it's up to the Sox to match that high offer, then I don't think they'll do it ....and I can't say that I blame them.


edit: typo. I can't say that I blame the Sox for not matching some astronomical offer if it comes to that.

ondafarm
01-06-2007, 06:26 PM
Call me crazy, but I also think part of his problem is that the AL has figured him out somewhat... all offspeed stuff only works for so long against the same teams... in addition, Questec hasn't helped either... this was the first year we had it at the Cell and he struggled there this year big time...

You asked for it, Crazy.

WhiteSox5187
01-06-2007, 08:41 PM
Call me crazy, but I also think part of his problem is that the AL has figured him out somewhat... all offspeed stuff only works for so long against the same teams... in addition, Questec hasn't helped either... this was the first year we had it at the Cell and he struggled there this year big time...

No, the reason he struggled last year was he was leaving his pitches up (which is a sign of fatigue) and when you throw like Buerhle and leave your pitches up, you're gonna get hammered. Doesn't matter what park you play in.

wdelaney72
01-06-2007, 08:55 PM
I love Buehrle and think he'll return to form (at least somewhat next year), but I think if he was really set on staying with the White Sox, he'd have agreed to an extension already. I hope I'm wrong.

itsnotrequired
01-06-2007, 09:11 PM
I love Buehrle and think he'll return to form (at least somewhat next year), but I think if he was really set on staying with the White Sox, he'd have agreed to an extension already. I hope I'm wrong.

How do we know the Sox even offered him an extension?

CashMan
01-06-2007, 09:38 PM
How do we know the Sox even offered him an extension?


If you listened to the KW interview with Mike North, then you would of known that they did.

Domeshot17
01-06-2007, 10:16 PM
Few comments

This could be the best thing for the Sox. With the talent possibly hitting the market next year, his value will come down. Where Ted Lilly got money for being the "best of the rest", Buehlre may only be the 6th or 7th best starter on the market next year. Right Now Buehlre would be looking at a 5 year deal worth 14-16 per, by this time next year, he will probably have signed a 4 year deal closer to 10-13 per. If that is with us or not I have no idea.

Also, it would be bad for us financially if he won 22. If he comes out with the usual 3.75 era and 15 wins he stays in the that portion of money. If he comes out and wins 22 with a high 2 era, hes back in the 15-16 a season range.

Another thing I was thinking, Mark and JD are both very smart. I wonder if they would agree to back loaded deal, ala Griffey. Say Mark signs a 4 year 12 per deal. He gets 9 million per now, and the remaining 12 million is given to him as a million a year for 12 years after he retires at like 5% interest. The one thing is, JR is going to have to break on his 3 year deal rule to keep Mark. If we do break it for anyone, Mark is a good choice. Wants the ball, pitches hurt, will give you 200 innings a year.

Its cool to see Buehlre step his offseason work outs. I remember hearing him on the radio a year or 2 ago say in the offseason he runs every morning, but thats about it. Doesnt pick up a ball for months, just keeps his endurance up by running. Spent most of his time hunting and fishing.

Good interview though it sounds like

caulfield12
01-06-2007, 10:22 PM
Few comments

This could be the best thing for the Sox. With the talent possibly hitting the market next year, his value will come down. Where Ted Lilly got money for being the "best of the rest", Buehlre may only be the 6th or 7th best starter on the market next year. Right Now Buehlre would be looking at a 5 year deal worth 14-16 per, by this time next year, he will probably have signed a 4 year deal closer to 10-13 per. If that is with us or not I have no idea.

Also, it would be bad for us financially if he won 22. If he comes out with the usual 3.75 era and 15 wins he stays in the that portion of money. If he comes out and wins 22 with a high 2 era, hes back in the 15-16 a season range.

Another thing I was thinking, Mark and JD are both very smart. I wonder if they would agree to back loaded deal, ala Griffey. Say Mark signs a 4 year 12 per deal. He gets 9 million per now, and the remaining 12 million is given to him as a million a year for 12 years after he retires at like 5% interest. The one thing is, JR is going to have to break on his 3 year deal rule to keep Mark. If we do break it for anyone, Mark is a good choice. Wants the ball, pitches hurt, will give you 200 innings a year.

Its cool to see Buehlre step his offseason work outs. I remember hearing him on the radio a year or 2 ago say in the offseason he runs every morning, but thats about it. Doesnt pick up a ball for months, just keeps his endurance up by running. Spent most of his time hunting and fishing.

Good interview though it sounds like


I can't see MB signing any kind of contract where his salary actually goes down from 07 to 08. The players' union really tends to frown upon the type of deals you are talking about, and any type of contract that doesn't guarantee an 8-9% rate or return (or more) is a non-starter.

With the contracts already out there, he's going to get a minimum of $13 million per season if he just has an "average" year for MB historically.

Domeshot17
01-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Caulfield-

I agree, I was just throwing the back loaded deal out there as a possibility. I know Griffey gets credit for having the smartest deal in baseball because he won't have to do tow truck commercials when he is 60 to get by. Buehlre and JD are from the same cut, smart athletes.

I really wonder about the money. Remember when Hampton was getting assanine money and Chan Ho Park etc, and it looked like the market just went out the window, then over the next 2 years the market came back in the window and hit the floor. I almost see that happening. The Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, a lot of them won't have a ton of money to throw around. It will set the market up nicely IMHO. Then spread less money over more talented guys, and it really is a buyers market. We won't know for a year or so I guess.

Grzegorz
01-06-2007, 11:07 PM
With Syd Barret?

There is no Pink Floyd without Roger Keith "Syd" Barrett. :smile:

UserNameBlank
01-07-2007, 09:08 AM
Caulfield-

I agree, I was just throwing the back loaded deal out there as a possibility. I know Griffey gets credit for having the smartest deal in baseball because he won't have to do tow truck commercials when he is 60 to get by. Buehlre and JD are from the same cut, smart athletes.

I really wonder about the money. Remember when Hampton was getting assanine money and Chan Ho Park etc, and it looked like the market just went out the window, then over the next 2 years the market came back in the window and hit the floor. I almost see that happening. The Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, a lot of them won't have a ton of money to throw around. It will set the market up nicely IMHO. Then spread less money over more talented guys, and it really is a buyers market. We won't know for a year or so I guess.

Any professional athlete that makes in excess of $50 million during his career and then has to go do tow truck commercials when he's 60 isn't very smart to begin with.

gobears1987
01-08-2007, 11:16 AM
These are exceptionally good things to hear. I predict he will win 20 games this season.I predict Mark will rebound. I don't know if he'll get 20 Ws though. That is becoming more and more difficult in today's game. He'll get more than 16 though.

gobears1987
01-08-2007, 11:17 AM
I agree he'll probably test the market, but based on his comments?He'll test it and end up re-signing hopefully. Sort of like how PK did it.

hi im skot
01-08-2007, 11:26 AM
He'll test it and end up re-signing hopefully. Sort of like how PK did it.

I hope you're right.

CaptainBallz
01-08-2007, 11:58 AM
With Syd Barret?

There is no Pink Floyd without Roger Keith "Syd" Barrett. :smile:

Guys... He's dead.

And not to be cold, but nothing would ruin the permanent Floyd reunion in Zoso's backyard more than that hack showing up... [/hijack]


Glad to hear Buerhle's recognizing that he needed to change some things up. If he's not full 'o b.s., the fact that he wasn't hurting or anything last season gives reason to worry a little bit.

ondafarm
01-08-2007, 04:15 PM
Buehrle is being a pitcher and a competitor. Guys don't turn it off when they walk off the mound.

I never recall a pitcher who was asked about it not say, "Skip, let me stay in, I can get this guy!!" That was why the manager would always head to me (catcher) on the way out and ask me.

Buehrle is fine and will be back at full-stength after a rough year in 2006.

TheCommander
01-08-2007, 05:35 PM
-Wasn't tired last season and had no injuires, but did say his lower back was hurting him, but only when he wasnt pitching.


So that's why they banned him from his rain delay antics.:D:

DSpivack
01-08-2007, 06:19 PM
I predict that Pink Floyd will reunite for good and play a show in my back yard.

Pink Floyd? Is that some kind of nickname for Gavin?

soxfanreggie
01-08-2007, 06:25 PM
I sure hope we sign MB to a new deal, and I truly believe he would take the Sox over a similar offer. We gave him the chance when nobody else would, and he is showing his loyalty. Most pitchers have a season in which they struggle at some point in their career. Some have a few. Hopefully MB turns around and wins 20 this year, that would be awesome. I could care less if he's wearing a Flub's...wait...strike that...most team's hats, as long as he was putting the numbers up there for us.

soxinem1
01-08-2007, 09:33 PM
I think he will win 22 games, beat Santana for the Cy Young AND agree to pitch for $11 million in 2008 as a personal favor to JR in order to keep the payroll down and allow the White Sox to keep Jermaine in the fold.

:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling:

Sorry, but no way is this happening. They both may be gone after 2007, especially if Dye repeats his 2006 season.

Additionally, before anyone gets too happy about his comments, remember what he said, that if both the Sox and STL offerd the same, he'd stay.

Sure. If Buerhle has a good 2007, he's getting $14 million plus for 4-5 years. No way will the White Sox match that.

ondafarm
01-08-2007, 10:29 PM
Sure. If Buerhle has a good 2007, he's getting $14 million plus for 4-5 years. No way will the White Sox match that.

Why not? Buehrle is worth it and the Sox aren't the cheapest team in the land.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-08-2007, 10:40 PM
Pink Floyd? Is that some kind of nickname for Gavin?

Depending how he pitches, It might not be a bad idea...

caulfield12
01-08-2007, 10:54 PM
:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling:

Sorry, but no way is this happening. They both may be gone after 2007, especially if Dye repeats his 2006 season.

Additionally, before anyone gets too happy about his comments, remember what he said, that if both the Sox and STL offerd the same, he'd stay.

Sure. If Buerhle has a good 2007, he's getting $14 million plus for 4-5 years. No way will the White Sox match that.

Facetious. Do you really think I was being serious? Geez.

ewokpelts
01-09-2007, 03:25 AM
Surprised no one posted this, but Mark was on Whitesox Weekly this morning.

He was about to head to Jamaica for a week, but said a few things.

-He has hired a new Personal Trainer and is changing his offseason training.

-Wasn't tired last season and had no injuires, but did say his lower back was hurting him, but only when he wasnt pitching.

-About wearing the Cardinal hats: said he was always a Cardinal fan, but is a White Sox player 100%

-If the Cardinals and White Sox offered him the same deal he would stay with the Sox. He has always been with us and would always like to be a White Sox.

If I remember anything else I will post it.

:gulp:burly-mon gets crap for wearing cardinal gear when his hometown team is in the world series, yet NO ONE gave jered weaver **** for wearing cardinal gear HEAD TO TOE during game 5. yeah, his brother's pitching, but NOT ONE COMMENT IN ANY SPORTS SITE/BLOG/PAPER? but burlz is a turn coat

soxinem1
01-09-2007, 08:20 AM
Why not? Buehrle is worth it and the Sox aren't the cheapest team in the land.

If he has a good year, he's getting a 5/yr offer from someone, and it will NOT be the White Sox.

ondafarm
01-09-2007, 09:59 AM
If he has a good year, he's getting a 5/yr offer from someone, and it will NOT be the White Sox.

Neither KW nor JR are as dumb as you seem to be implying. Buehrle is worth it and I see no reason why the White Sox wouldn't sign him first.

spiffie
01-09-2007, 10:21 AM
Neither KW nor JR are as dumb as you seem to be implying. Buehrle is worth it and I see no reason why the White Sox wouldn't sign him first.
Assuming last year was an aberration for Mark, even if he performs like the Buehrle we are used to there just comes a point when the economics of the situation become crazy. If MB puts up a year where he goes say 17-7 with a 3.40 ERA, someone is liable to come in with a 6 year, 100 million dollar deal. As it is, he is likely to be at worst the second most desirable FA pitcher next off season except for if Zambrano goes to the open market. I love Mark, but I wouldn't want to see the Sox hamstring themselves to a deal that even comes close to those numbers when they have so many good young arms waiting in the wings. With the amount of top prospects getting ready to emerge from the system, it seems like a bad idea to put that much in a pitcher, even one who is as awesome as Buehrle.

Flight #24
01-09-2007, 10:42 AM
Assuming last year was an aberration for Mark, even if he performs like the Buehrle we are used to there just comes a point when the economics of the situation become crazy. If MB puts up a year where he goes say 17-7 with a 3.40 ERA, someone is liable to come in with a 6 year, 100 million dollar deal. As it is, he is likely to be at worst the second most desirable FA pitcher next off season except for if Zambrano goes to the open market. I love Mark, but I wouldn't want to see the Sox hamstring themselves to a deal that even comes close to those numbers when they have so many good young arms waiting in the wings. With the amount of top prospects getting ready to emerge from the system, it seems like a bad idea to put that much in a pitcher, even one who is as awesome as Buehrle.

That only works if you have a viable alternative. If you're going to resign Garland/Vazquez, that could work. If not, are you really that excited about going into '09 with Contreras and 4 of the current crop of youngsters? Personally, I'd only be excited if the Sox resign Mark & Jon, giving them 3 vets for '09 to go with 2 youngsters, then let JC go and you go with Mark/Jon/3 kids. That's the way you rebuild a rotation, and it lets you keep the $40-50M invested in the SPs, which should be viable.

StillMissOzzie
01-09-2007, 10:48 AM
I predict that Pink Floyd will reunite for good and play a show in my back yard.

I want two tickets or cars will be torched.

SMO
:D:

spiffie
01-09-2007, 11:05 AM
That only works if you have a viable alternative. If you're going to resign Garland/Vazquez, that could work. If not, are you really that excited about going into '09 with Contreras and 4 of the current crop of youngsters? Personally, I'd only be excited if the Sox resign Mark & Jon, giving them 3 vets for '09 to go with 2 youngsters, then let JC go and you go with Mark/Jon/3 kids. That's the way you rebuild a rotation, and it lets you keep the $40-50M invested in the SPs, which should be viable.
I would say that with the market as it is, and this is just my opinion as I would never presume to know what should happen since that is a job for Mr. Williams, I would let Mark go after 2007 unless he will sign at a reasonable rate. This of course presumes he returns to form. Then for 2008 you still have Jose and Garland with any three of Floyd/Sisco/Gonzalez/Danks/Broadway/Phillips/Haeger. After 2008 you will have a much better picture of what we have in all of our pitching prospects. If it looks like we won't have what we need for 2009, then you bite the bullet and resign Garland. If however it looks like our young arms are coming up aces, then you let Jon go after 2008, and let Jose go after 2009. That leaves you with:
2007: Garland/Contreras/Buehrle/Vazquez/prospect
2008: Garland/Contreras/prospect/prospect/prospect
2009: Contreras/prospect/prospect/prospect/prospect
2010: all prospects/new acquisitions

That sounds reasonable, turning the rotation completely over in a 6 year span. Plus, with the cost savings, you have the freed up cash needed to make any moves that need making.

the gooch
01-09-2007, 11:21 AM
I'd try to resign Buehrle after a good year (14M if its a great year), and trade Contreras and Vazquez before their last year (Contreras before '09 and Vazquez before '08), and I'd try to keep Garland locked up before trading the last one. Two or three old guys and two or three young cheap guys is very affordable. Our five vets were a luxury we cannot expect to maintain.

EDIT: Isn't Vazquez signed through '08?

Flight #24
01-09-2007, 11:23 AM
I would say that with the market as it is, and this is just my opinion as I would never presume to know what should happen since that is a job for Mr. Williams, I would let Mark go after 2007 unless he will sign at a reasonable rate. This of course presumes he returns to form. Then for 2008 you still have Jose and Garland with any three of Floyd/Sisco/Gonzalez/Danks/Broadway/Phillips/Haeger. After 2008 you will have a much better picture of what we have in all of our pitching prospects.

That turns 2008 into a significant rebuilding year, because you can't expect to have your #4 and 5 starters in their first year along with a #3 in his 2d year and be a contender. However, you forgot about Javy, who can be kept for '08 on a 1-year arb deal. So you could work your plan with 1 SP (#5) in '07, another one added in '08, and then either resign Jon AND Javy, or just resign one of them for '09 (and whoever that is becomes the ace in '10 when Jose leaves).

The problem is that you a) can't afford to trade away any guys unless you get an SP back and b)you need to hit on about 50% of the current stock in 3 years. And if any of them struggle (ala Garland his first few years), the teams' going to struggle along with them. I prefer the "sign Mark, then one of Jon/Javy and if necessary 2" strategy. I just don't see how it's impossible for them to sign 2 guys at market rates and then fill in with 2-3 cheap guys. That also gives you flexibility to trade arms for other areas if necessary, and/or to use your prospect depth to offset any of the "out years" on a vet if you end up needing to eat them.

Staff with payroll:
2007 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Vazquez ($9.5), Buehrle ($9.5), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $39.33M
2008 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Vazquez ($14), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $50.33M
2009 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($330k), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $35M
2010 - Garland ($18), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($1M), Prospect ($330k), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $36M

There's a 1-year bump, but the SP budget is still around where it was last year. That also lets you keep your top prospects like Gio, Danks in the minors as long as necessary rather than potentially forcing them into the bigs.

caulfield12
01-09-2007, 11:37 AM
That turns 2008 into a significant rebuilding year, because you can't expect to have your #4 and 5 starters in their first year along with a #3 in his 2d year and be a contender. However, you forgot about Javy, who can be kept for '08 on a 1-year arb deal. So you could work your plan with 1 SP (#5) in '07, another one added in '08, and then either resign Jon AND Javy, or just resign one of them for '09 (and whoever that is becomes the ace in '10 when Jose leaves).

The problem is that you a) can't afford to trade away any guys unless you get an SP back and b)you need to hit on about 50% of the current stock in 3 years. And if any of them struggle (ala Garland his first few years), the teams' going to struggle along with them. I prefer the "sign Mark, then one of Jon/Javy and if necessary 2" strategy. I just don't see how it's impossible for them to sign 2 guys at market rates and then fill in with 2-3 cheap guys. That also gives you flexibility to trade arms for other areas if necessary, and/or to use your prospect depth to offset any of the "out years" on a vet if you end up needing to eat them.

Staff with payroll:
2007 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Vazquez ($9.5), Buehrle ($9.5), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $39.33M
2008 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Vazquez ($14), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $50.33M
2009 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($330k), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $35M
2010 - Garland ($18), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($1M), Prospect ($330k), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $36M

There's a 1-year bump, but the SP budget is still around where it was last year. That also lets you keep your top prospects like Gio, Danks in the minors as long as necessary rather than potentially forcing them into the bigs.


The only "chink" in the plan would seem to be Contreras. He simply has to return to form for us to be perennial contenders during that time period.

If he's not the same or is injured, we have a little payroll flexibility, but not enough to acquire a front-line veteran starter at today's prices.

Best case scenario, you get a team like the Dodgers who wants to dump someone like Odalis Perez on you for free (or Jeff Weaver), although I don't think they would have just given him to the Sox like they did with KC.

spiffie
01-09-2007, 12:18 PM
That turns 2008 into a significant rebuilding year, because you can't expect to have your #4 and 5 starters in their first year along with a #3 in his 2d year and be a contender. However, you forgot about Javy, who can be kept for '08 on a 1-year arb deal. So you could work your plan with 1 SP (#5) in '07, another one added in '08, and then either resign Jon AND Javy, or just resign one of them for '09 (and whoever that is becomes the ace in '10 when Jose leaves).

The problem is that you a) can't afford to trade away any guys unless you get an SP back and b)you need to hit on about 50% of the current stock in 3 years. And if any of them struggle (ala Garland his first few years), the teams' going to struggle along with them. I prefer the "sign Mark, then one of Jon/Javy and if necessary 2" strategy. I just don't see how it's impossible for them to sign 2 guys at market rates and then fill in with 2-3 cheap guys. That also gives you flexibility to trade arms for other areas if necessary, and/or to use your prospect depth to offset any of the "out years" on a vet if you end up needing to eat them.

Staff with payroll:
2007 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Vazquez ($9.5), Buehrle ($9.5), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $39.33M
2008 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Vazquez ($14), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $50.33M
2009 - Contreras ($10), Garland ($10), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($330k), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $35M
2010 - Garland ($18), Buehrle ($16), Prospect ($1M), Prospect ($330k), Prospect ($330k) --> TOTAL = $36M

There's a 1-year bump, but the SP budget is still around where it was last year. That also lets you keep your top prospects like Gio, Danks in the minors as long as necessary rather than potentially forcing them into the bigs.
The only problem I see is that if you resign Mark at the kind of deal you say, it severely limits the chances of resigning Dye or Crede. Say Mark signs for $16 million a year and you keep Javy. Add in what Konerko is signed for and you've tied up $62 million in 5 guys. Considering our effective spending payroll seems to be around $90 million (the excess is covered by money we've been shipped for players) that leaves us $28 million or so to get the rest of the team on the field. Add in AJP at possibly $6 million and you're already at $68 million now for 6 guys. MacDougal is $2 million in 2008 so now it's $70 million for 7 guys. Hall is signed for $1.75 million so it's $72 million now for 8 guys. Add in Thome at $8.5 million (14 million - 5.5 from Philly) and now it's over $80 million with 2B, SS, 3B, RF, LF, and 5 bullpen spots to fill with about $10 million to work with.

Flight #24
01-09-2007, 01:27 PM
The only problem I see is that if you resign Mark at the kind of deal you say, it severely limits the chances of resigning Dye or Crede. Say Mark signs for $16 million a year and you keep Javy. Add in what Konerko is signed for and you've tied up $62 million in 5 guys. Considering our effective spending payroll seems to be around $90 million (the excess is covered by money we've been shipped for players) that leaves us $28 million or so to get the rest of the team on the field. Add in AJP at possibly $6 million and you're already at $68 million now for 6 guys. MacDougal is $2 million in 2008 so now it's $70 million for 7 guys. Hall is signed for $1.75 million so it's $72 million now for 8 guys. Add in Thome at $8.5 million (14 million - 5.5 from Philly) and now it's over $80 million with 2B, SS, 3B, RF, LF, and 5 bullpen spots to fill with about $10 million to work with.

IMO, payroll is about $100M. After payments for players, Sox payroll last year was IIRC $95, and attendance was great so I don't think that's a stretch.

'08 lineup
LF: Fields/Sweeney, CF: Anderson, RF: Dye ($14M) -
3B: Crede ($8), SS: ??? ($3M), 2B: ???? ($2M), 1B: Konerko ($12M)
C: AJ ($6M), DH: Thome ($8.5M)

Total before bench players = $53.5M
So you're at $104M before bullpen & bench, which shouldn't run more than $5-8M since most are young & cheap guys. $112M payroll in '08, but in '09 it drops by $15M on the SPs alone, plus AJ & Thome are done (or resigned cheaper), so it's kind of a 1-year blip and a longer-term closer payroll to $100M.

Longer-term, Crede's salary escalates from '08 on (assuming he signs a deal that starts at $8 and goes up from there), Konerko shifts to DH and Fields to 1B (Sweeney in LF), so you need to replace a C but you should have plenty of room to do that, provide raises, and still keep a $100-$110 payroll, which for a contender is still feasible.

caulfield12
01-09-2007, 01:35 PM
IMO, payroll is about $100M. After payments for players, Sox payroll last year was IIRC $95, and attendance was great so I don't think that's a stretch.

'08 lineup
LF: Fields/Sweeney, CF: Anderson, RF: Dye ($14M) -
3B: Crede ($8), SS: ??? ($3M), 2B: ???? ($2M), 1B: Konerko ($12M)
C: AJ ($6M), DH: Thome ($8.5M)

Total before bench players = $53.5M
So you're at $104M before bullpen & bench, which shouldn't run more than $5-8M since most are young & cheap guys. $112M payroll in '08, but in '09 it drops by $15M on the SPs alone, plus AJ & Thome are done (or resigned cheaper), so it's kind of a 1-year blip and a longer-term closer payroll to $100M.

Longer-term, Crede's salary escalates from '08 on (assuming he signs a deal that starts at $8 and goes up from there), Konerko shifts to DH and Fields to 1B (Sweeney in LF), so you need to replace a C but you should have plenty of room to do that, provide raises, and still keep a $100-$110 payroll, which for a contender is still feasible.


Or you trade Crede and fill in the gaps at SS and 2B...that slides Fields in at3 3B. I doubt we'll see him in our outfield, I guess we'll just to have to wait and see what Boras and Joe decide.

I'm not sure how many quality players you can find at those positions (2B, but especially SS) for $5 million combined, unless they're rookies or untested players, or maybe we sign another Iguchi type from Asia.

We could trade for someone like an Aybar or Wood from Anaheim, but then you'd have two rookies at SS and 3B, essentially.

We don't have any legitimate SS candidates and Getz is considered to be more of an Eckstein-Lite utility player at 2B. Some are really high on him, some of the same people who were high on Aaron Miles. Some think he's like an Ozuna, Beltre, Lopez.

spiffie
01-09-2007, 01:42 PM
IMO, payroll is about $100M. After payments for players, Sox payroll last year was IIRC $95, and attendance was great so I don't think that's a stretch.

'08 lineup
LF: Fields/Sweeney, CF: Anderson, RF: Dye ($14M) -
3B: Crede ($8), SS: ??? ($3M), 2B: ???? ($2M), 1B: Konerko ($12M)
C: AJ ($6M), DH: Thome ($8.5M)

Total before bench players = $53.5M
So you're at $104M before bullpen & bench, which shouldn't run more than $5-8M since most are young & cheap guys. $112M payroll in '08, but in '09 it drops by $15M on the SPs alone, plus AJ & Thome are done (or resigned cheaper), so it's kind of a 1-year blip and a longer-term closer payroll to $100M.

Longer-term, Crede's salary escalates from '08 on (assuming he signs a deal that starts at $8 and goes up from there), Konerko shifts to DH and Fields to 1B (Sweeney in LF), so you need to replace a C but you should have plenty of room to do that, provide raises, and still keep a $100-$110 payroll, which for a contender is still feasible.
Couple of things:

1. I suspect you will see a small drop in attendance this year. The bandwagon surely lost some riders after last season. I would guess somewhere around 2.7 million for next year. That could hamstring a raise in payroll.

2. If Joe Crede has another year like last year there will be no seasons in that deal that begin under $10 million. Unless you plan to backload him to around $17 million in the last year of the deal.

3. As Caulfield pointed out, getting those 2B and SS filled for cheap could be difficult. Consider that Uribe has an option of something like 4 or 5 million for 2008.

4. Where is this sudden assumption that Podsednik would be gone in 2008? If he returns to form wouldn't there be a great interest in keeping him for the long-term?

caulfield12
01-09-2007, 03:02 PM
Couple of things:

1. I suspect you will see a small drop in attendance this year. The bandwagon surely lost some riders after last season. I would guess somewhere around 2.7 million for next year. That could hamstring a raise in payroll.

2. If Joe Crede has another year like last year there will be no seasons in that deal that begin under $10 million. Unless you plan to backload him to around $17 million in the last year of the deal.

3. As Caulfield pointed out, getting those 2B and SS filled for cheap could be difficult. Consider that Uribe has an option of something like 4 or 5 million for 2008.

4. Where is this sudden assumption that Podsednik would be gone in 2008? If he returns to form wouldn't there be a great interest in keeping him for the long-term?


The option on Uribe for 2008 is $5 million or $300,000 buyout, similar to Everett's deal. I think (not positive) we have something similar in place with Iguchi.

I think there will be tremendous pressure on KW to improve the team at the break (as he's done almost every year, even counting Blum!), because there's the perception he didn't do anything to improve the ballclub for 2007 during the offseason.

champagne030
01-09-2007, 04:18 PM
Couple of things:

1. I suspect you will see a small drop in attendance this year. The bandwagon surely lost some riders after last season. I would guess somewhere around 2.7 million for next year. That could hamstring a raise in payroll.

2. If Joe Crede has another year like last year there will be no seasons in that deal that begin under $10 million. Unless you plan to backload him to around $17 million in the last year of the deal.

3. As Caulfield pointed out, getting those 2B and SS filled for cheap could be difficult. Consider that Uribe has an option of something like 4 or 5 million for 2008.

4. Where is this sudden assumption that Podsednik would be gone in 2008? If he returns to form wouldn't there be a great interest in keeping him for the long-term?

The White Sox increased ticket prices. That's a bare-minimum revenue bump of $8M on your attendance figures.

caulfield12
01-09-2007, 04:24 PM
The White Sox increased ticket prices. That's a bare-minimum revenue bump of $8M on your attendance figures.


Worst-case, you'd have to think it would be "revenue neutral," that a decrease of 100-300,000 fans would be pretty much offset by ticket, parking and concession increases.

esbrechtel
01-09-2007, 06:59 PM
does anyone elses head hurt that we are talking about the possible rotation and salaries for players in 5 years down the road....:hijacked:

sox1970
01-09-2007, 07:06 PM
does anyone elses head hurt that we are talking about the possible rotation and salaries for players in 5 years down the road....:hijacked:

It is pretty sad, isn't it? I think fans grasp on to whatever they can during the winter months. Once pitchers and catchers report, that will stop.

Pitchers and catchers report in 39 days.

spiffie
01-09-2007, 08:47 PM
It is pretty sad, isn't it? I think fans grasp on to whatever they can during the winter months. Once pitchers and catchers report, that will stop.

Pitchers and catchers report in 39 days.
I suppose we could just look at it as that nothing that happens today will have any impact on moves we make going forward. That would be awesome!

http://www.appleseeds.org/ostrich.gif

Grzegorz
01-09-2007, 09:49 PM
The only "chink" in the plan would seem to be Contreras. He simply has to return to form for us to be perennial contenders during that time period.

If he's not the same or is injured, we have a little payroll flexibility, but not enough to acquire a front-line veteran starter at today's prices.

Best case scenario, you get a team like the Dodgers who wants to dump someone like Odalis Perez on you for free (or Jeff Weaver), although I don't think they would have just given him to the Sox like they did with KC.

Jeff Weaver??? Lordy, don't tell me it has come to that...

Flight #24
01-09-2007, 09:54 PM
If he's not the same or is injured, we have a little payroll flexibility, but not enough to acquire a front-line veteran starter at today's prices.

Best case scenario, you get a team like the Dodgers who wants to dump someone like Odalis Perez on you for free (or Jeff Weaver), although I don't think they would have just given him to the Sox like they did with KC.

This IMO bears repeating. I've seen a lot of "people will be looking to dump these big deals being signed within a few years" talk. The problem is that they'll only be dumped if they suck. If indeed the Sox are looking outside the organization for pitching, I don't want them to try on any of the guys like Lilly, Weaver, Perez, etc as anything more than a #5 (and really only as #5 insurance) - and that's assuming they get subsidized by their former team.

So I'm still not sure exactly where the Sox will get their 1-4 starters unless they resign their own, sign other top SPs, or if by some stroke of luck that virtually no team has really been able to accomplish, they have 4 of the current slate of 6-8 SPs pan out at around the same time to be #1-4 SPs.

caulfield12
01-09-2007, 10:29 PM
This IMO bears repeating. I've seen a lot of "people will be looking to dump these big deals being signed within a few years" talk. The problem is that they'll only be dumped if they suck. If indeed the Sox are looking outside the organization for pitching, I don't want them to try on any of the guys like Lilly, Weaver, Perez, etc as anything more than a #5 (and really only as #5 insurance) - and that's assuming they get subsidized by their former team.

So I'm still not sure exactly where the Sox will get their 1-4 starters unless they resign their own, sign other top SPs, or if by some stroke of luck that virtually no team has really been able to accomplish, they have 4 of the current slate of 6-8 SPs pan out at around the same time to be #1-4 SPs.


It really has to be Danks, Gio, Floyd or Masset (if he's starting). We will need two of those guys to be #2/3 starters.

Then, from Haeger, Broadway, McCullogh, maybe even Sisco..we find a couple of 4/5 starters.

I'm not ready to say sign Weaver and dump Vazquez and save $3-4 million, it hasn't come to that point yet...maybe at the end of ST, we might have to get desperate if no clear 5th starter emerges. And it will harder to get a pitcher like Perez, the teams that can eat contracts will not want to give them up to the White Sox, because the odds are that they are our competitors for the playoffs or WS.

ondafarm
01-09-2007, 11:08 PM
As for the rotation 2007 I expect: Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, Vazquez, Floyd
2008 : Buehrle, Garland, Floyd, Haeger, Sisco
2009 : Garland, Floyd, Haeger, Sisco, Danks

Then I don't have a clue.

spiffie
01-09-2007, 11:53 PM
This IMO bears repeating. I've seen a lot of "people will be looking to dump these big deals being signed within a few years" talk. The problem is that they'll only be dumped if they suck. If indeed the Sox are looking outside the organization for pitching, I don't want them to try on any of the guys like Lilly, Weaver, Perez, etc as anything more than a #5 (and really only as #5 insurance) - and that's assuming they get subsidized by their former team.

That's not really true. Think about the Giants for instance. In a couple of years, after the average age of their roster hits the triple digit mark, they might very easily find themselves in something of a free fall. At that point it may seem kind of silly to them to be paying Barry Zito that kind of money for a team going 68-94. Every year good players move around simply because their team is no longer in contention and doesn't look to be in the near future. And as it stands now the Sox would be in a prime position to take advantage of this.

maurice
01-10-2007, 01:37 PM
Spiffie is right. A team may want to dump a high-paid player even if the player hasn't been sucking. See Alex Rodriguez (Texas had Young and wanted the cap space), Manny Ramirez (Boston has been trying to move him for years), Miguel Tejada (it seems that Baltimore has been trying to move him), Jim Thome (Philly had Howard, no DH slot, and wanted the cap space), etc.

The best part about this type of deal is that you take on substantially lower risk than if you sign the guy as a FA. If you sign a guy to a 5-year deal and he gets hurt or starts sucking right away, you still have to pay him 4 more years. If you trade for him in, say, year 3 of the 5-year deal, the risk is much lower. You also sometimes can get the team dumping the high-paid guy to throw a little cash your way.

So I'm still not sure exactly where the Sox will get their 1-4 starters

Probably the same way they got their current 1-4: Sox draft choice (Buehrle), trade acquisition of a prospect (Garland), and trade acquisition similar to the ones discussed above (Contreras, Vazquez).

Flight #24
01-10-2007, 02:26 PM
Spiffie is right. A team may want to dump a high-paid player even if the player hasn't been sucking. See Alex Rodriguez (Texas had Young and wanted the cap space), Manny Ramirez (Boston has been trying to move him for years), Miguel Tejada (it seems that Baltimore has been trying to move him), Jim Thome (Philly had Howard, no DH slot, and wanted the cap space), etc.

Probably the same way they got their current 1-4: Sox draft choice (Buehrle), trade acquisition of a prospect (Garland), and trade acquisition similar to the ones discussed above (Contreras, Vazquez).

We'll see. I'm not sure I buy the analogies you made because I don't think Ramirez and Tejada were really ever on the market (outside of the 1 year when Manny was on waivers). The various rumours surrounding the O's & BoSox response to trade offers make me think it's a "if you blow me away, sure" situation. Thome's kind of a special case and not applicable either since the emergence of a great young SP wouldn't really negate the value of Zito since you need 5 of them.

My concern is that the Sox are relying on finding diamonds in the rough ala Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton to fill upper spots int he rotation. I know they've been reasonably successful at it, but they've tended to do it for the #5 slot to date so the current strategy adds risk. I also think that there are some guys that ARE worth the deals, and IMO Burls if he rebounds is one of them - low injury risk, and his style is one that shouldn't suffer too badly as he ages.

maurice
01-10-2007, 04:02 PM
I also think that there are some guys that ARE worth the deals, and IMO Burls if he rebounds is one of them - low injury risk, and his style is one that shouldn't suffer too badly as he ages.

The funny thing is, the chances of the Sox re-signing Buehrle probably drop if he improves in '07. An 18 W, 3.60 ERA season from Buehrle practically guarantees at least one huge, 6-year offer that the Sox might refuse to match (buy high). OTOH, if he has another down year, the offers will be lower, and the Sox will be more likely to match (buy low).

Soxfest
01-11-2007, 07:20 PM
MB days are numbered in Sox uni.

drftnaway
01-11-2007, 07:24 PM
The funny thing is, the chances of the Sox re-signing Buehrle probably drop if he improves in '07. An 18 W, 3.60 ERA season from Buehrle practically guarantees at least one huge, 6-year offer that the Sox might refuse to match (buy high). OTOH, if he has another down year, the offers will be lower, and the Sox will be more likely to match (buy low).

Sounds like a lose - lose situation to me.

ondafarm
01-11-2007, 09:52 PM
I don't know why everyone seems to believe the Sox won't match any multiyear deal for Buehrle. He is an ideal long-term pitcher to keep. He throws 200 innings per year. If he keeps in shape he will be a solid performer for probably another decade, he's a lefty and his style is more guile than blaze. All of these indicate he is and will be valuable. If he can turn around his fitness issues, then I see no reason the Sox won't sign him to a long-term deal. He and Garland could age extremely well and provide the Sox with a great verteran end of the rotation for a very long time. That would go extremely well with the recently shored up rookie end.

champagne030
01-11-2007, 10:40 PM
I don't know why everyone seems to believe the Sox won't match any multiyear deal for Buehrle. He is an ideal long-term pitcher to keep. He throws 200 innings per year. If he keeps in shape he will be a solid performer for probably another decade, he's a lefty and his style is more guile than blaze. All of these indicate he is and will be valuable. If he can turn around his fitness issues, then I see no reason the Sox won't sign him to a long-term deal. He and Garland could age extremely well and provide the Sox with a great verteran end of the rotation for a very long time. That would go extremely well with the recently shored up rookie end.

I think it would be great to sign MB to a long term deal. The obstacle that I see, and maybe others, is that the Sox have HAD a policy to not do deals for longer than 3 years for pitchers. MB could very well command a deal twice that long, with a ton of cash too.

Grzegorz
01-11-2007, 10:41 PM
Ondafarm,

A lot of "ifs" there concerning Buehrle am I correct?

I have a hard time believing that fitness was his only problem last year.

ondafarm
01-12-2007, 12:28 AM
Ondafarm,

A lot of "ifs" there concerning Buehrle am I correct?

I have a hard time believing that fitness was his only problem last year.

One "if". MB showed a classic lack of fitness season. He was fine at the beginning but then tailed off noticeably.

Mark broke in as a very young man and he didn't have to work at fitness when he broke in. Now, he is a few years older and must work at fitness. Hopefully, he's taken it seriously and cranked it up. It sounds like he has and if so, he will be back with a vengence. He should be in the prime of his career by age. Hopefully, he will this year. Everybody knows what he can do. Can he do it?

Last year, he also had an issue with some bad umpiring. It happens when you are the defending world champs. This year that pressure should be off.

Flight #24
01-12-2007, 11:10 AM
FYI - the Cubune quotes Kenny this AM as saying that they don't forsee making Buehrle an offer on an extension. He also goes on to intimate that Buehrle's current demands are what make these discussions unlikely, but that he doesn't blame him given the market.

On a related note, they also say(without sourcing) that Dye's looking for $17M/yr ala Carlos Lee but fewer years. Kenny's quotes there are more along the lines of "We have to decide if we want to do that because at that $$$ you have to be right, but JD's such a pro that we can consider it". That makes me hopeful. Maybe get Jermaine on a 4-yr / $60M deal to play OF and then maybe move to 1B or DH as he ages?

lakeviewsoxfan
01-12-2007, 11:43 AM
FYI - the Cubune quotes Kenny this AM as saying that they don't forsee making Buehrle an offer on an extension. He also goes on to intimate that Buehrle's current demands are what make these discussions unlikely, but that he doesn't blame him given the market.

On a related note, they also say(without sourcing) that Dye's looking for $17M/yr ala Carlos Lee but fewer years. Kenny's quotes there are more along the lines of "We have to decide if we want to do that because at that $$$ you have to be right, but JD's such a pro that we can consider it". That makes me hopeful. Maybe get Jermaine on a 4-yr / $60M deal to play OF and then maybe move to 1B or DH as he ages?

I believe they will offer JD somewhere around 4/65 IF he starts out strong, keep in mind when we lose Thome after '08 we will not have a DH you can prep Sweeney/Fields in LF in 08 and then move one to RF most likely Sweeney which will allow PK or JD to switch off between 1B and DH.

ChicagoHoosier
01-12-2007, 12:12 PM
As for the rotation 2007 I expect: Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, Vazquez, Floyd
2008 : Buehrle, Garland, Floyd, Haeger, Sisco
2009 : Garland, Floyd, Haeger, Sisco, Danks

Then I don't have a clue.

What happened to Contreras in 08?

Did we resign Garland in this scenario to another 3 year deal and Buerhle to a 1-year deal?

MRM
01-12-2007, 04:21 PM
Is it safe to imply that by his comments he is already dead set on testing the FA market?

That was safe to assume LAST year when he refused to negotiate a contract extension in the off season. MB is going to the highest bidder, and it won't be the Sox. If he rebounds this year, he's looking at Zito money, at least. Hell, a repeat of last season probably nets him 5 years $15mil per.

MRM
01-12-2007, 04:33 PM
As for the rotation 2007 I expect: Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, Vazquez, Floyd
2008 : Buehrle, Garland, Floyd, Haeger, Sisco
2009 : Garland, Floyd, Haeger, Sisco, Danks

Then I don't have a clue.

Contreras is signed thru '08. Likewise, Garlands contract is up after '08. Buehrle will not be on the team in '08 barring a miracle. Haeger will (hopefully) never be more than a spot starter/long reliever. If he wins a spot on the regular roster this team is in trouble with a capital T.

Where are Gonzalez and Broadway on your list? MUCH better chance of one/both of those guys making the roster in 08/09 than Haeger (or Sisco, for that matter). Danks will be ready by '08 at the latest...he might win the spot in '07.

Domeshot17
01-12-2007, 05:14 PM
Contreras is signed thru '08. Likewise, Garlands contract is up after '08. Buehrle will not be on the team in '08 barring a miracle. Haeger will (hopefully) never be more than a spot starter/long reliever. If he wins a spot on the regular roster this team is in trouble with a capital T.

Where are Gonzalez and Broadway on your list? MUCH better chance of one/both of those guys making the roster in 08/09 than Haeger (or Sisco, for that matter). Danks will be ready by '08 at the latest...he might win the spot in '07.

Wow, that is sayng EVERY pitcher we are banking on comes through, which I doubt will happen. We will be lucky if we get 2 out of sisco gio danks broadway mculloch to be above a fourth starter.

SOXSINCE'70
01-12-2007, 10:48 PM
People tell me that im really fung to me around too.

:ozzie
"Fung is winning,and winning is fung."
- Ozzie Guillen,December,2003

Andy T Clown
01-15-2007, 04:23 PM
I predict that Pink Floyd will reunite for good and play a show in my back yard.


Can I come?

ondafarm
01-15-2007, 11:06 PM
Contreras is signed thru '08. Likewise, Garlands contract is up after '08. Buehrle will not be on the team in '08 barring a miracle. Haeger will (hopefully) never be more than a spot starter/long reliever. If he wins a spot on the regular roster this team is in trouble with a capital T.

Where are Gonzalez and Broadway on your list? MUCH better chance of one/both of those guys making the roster in 08/09 than Haeger (or Sisco, for that matter). Danks will be ready by '08 at the latest...he might win the spot in '07.

I wouldn't be at all surprised in Buehrle stays put. Haeger could be major lifesaver for the Sox in the future. Sisco should be a great addition, far more power than Gonzalez or Broadway.

And no, I don't think everyone will make it.

caulfield12
01-16-2007, 12:05 AM
There might be a 1-2 MPH difference on their fastballs, and Gio has to pace himself for 5-7 innings, relievers can go all out.

I wouldn't put Gio in the same category as Broadway, and I wouldn't put Sisco in the same category as Thornton.