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View Full Version : Hardball Times Praises KW for Recent Deals


SoCalWhiteSoxFan
01-03-2007, 04:20 PM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/tht-mailbag3/

A contributor at Hardball Times, a leading SABRmetrically-inclined website, praises KW's recent moves. Here are some quotes:

"Williams has really shown me something this offseason. Granted, most White Sox fans probably would have wanted him to address their outfield issues first, but Williams probably increased the overall talent level of his organization while lowering its cost structure. While that might mean slightly fewer wins in the short run, it's hard to argue with those kinds of moves in the long run."

"[G]ood pre-arb players are baseball's ultimate market inefficiency, and stockpiling players with exactly that potential (don't forget picking up Andrew Sisco (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?lastName=Sisco&firstName=Andrew) for Ross Gload (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?lastName=Gload&firstName=Ross)) is a move designed to help them compete in the newly competitive AL Central. ... in a sense, Williams is following the relatively recent example of one of his former trading partners: Billy Beane, who moved [I]Tim Hudson (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?lastName=Hudson&firstName=Tim) and Mark Mulder (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?lastName=Mulder&firstName=Mark) for even younger talent in return."

AJ Hellraiser
01-03-2007, 04:47 PM
I really agree with him and have been one of the few who genuinely likes what KW has done....

First, you must ask yourself what Buehrle, Contreras and Garland are going to make in the next few years... if Zito gets 18M per, Buehrle and Garland are due nearly 20M per... Reinsdorf won't pay that and won't give out contracts over 3 years... I can't say I disagree except in the case of Garland

I am disappointed that KW is slightly looking more towards the future than the present but next year's AL Central is really a crapshoot among 4 teams and only 2 can make it... The Indians should be better, we will still win 90 games, the Tigers will be good (maybe not as good) and the Twins are always good but have problems with their rotation with Liriano lost...

However, say even just half of the guys we have now stockpiled in our system pan out... we are talking about an amazing 10-year run... our pitching will be good, allowing us to spend money for position players and in addition we can trade some of our prospects because they will hold even more value to all teams minus the Cubs, Yankees and BoSox...

Should this pan out as I believe it will, we will be discussing KW with the word genius and debating his HOF credentials...

In Kenny We Trust!!!

caulfield12
01-03-2007, 04:58 PM
I guarantee as soon as Garland's agent brings up $20 million as the asking price per season, KW will trade him within a week.

Zito has been down the last couple of seasons, but I can't imagine either Garland or Buehrle getting more, neither has one a Cy Young or is considered to be an "ace" exactly. Now you can debate whether or not Zito continues to be one, but JG and MB have a lot to prove this season to be viewed in that company.

oeo
01-03-2007, 04:59 PM
I am disappointed that KW is slightly looking more towards the future than the present but next year's AL Central is really a crapshoot among 4 teams and only 2 can make it... The Indians should be better, we will still win 90 games, the Tigers will be good (maybe not as good) and the Twins are always good but have problems with their rotation with Liriano lost...

Don't forget about the Twins losing Radke, as well. I think the Central is going to be weaker than a lot of people realize, in 2007. The Indians have played about three months of good baseball in the last two years, the Tigers will have a lot of the same problems we had in 2006 (starting rotation and the bullpen), and the Twins rotation is looking pretty weak after Johan...not to mention can they get repeats out of guys like Punto and Bartlett. The Royals, are well, the Royals.

The future looks bright for the Central, but I just don't see it being the strongest division next year.

kittle42
01-03-2007, 05:01 PM
So WSIers - the conundrum - agree with said FOBB columnist that KW's deals are good, rip columnist and KW simultaneously, or find some nice middle ground to make yourselves content, such as "the columnist is a stat nerd. KW is no FOBB. None of them understand why these deals are good. Trust KW always - he brought a WS to town."

Discuss.

MUsoxfan
01-03-2007, 05:05 PM
I initially hated the Garcia trade (solely because Gil Meche just got $40m a day or two before) and LOVED the McCarthy trade.

Now I love them both when looking at the facts.

nodiggity59
01-03-2007, 05:06 PM
So WSIers - the conundrum - agree with said FOBB columnist that KW's deals are good, rip columnist and KW simultaneously, or find some nice middle ground to make yourselves content, such as "the columnist is a stat nerd. KW is no FOBB. None of them understand why these deals are good. Trust KW always - he brought a WS to town."

Discuss.

The STAT head has no idea why KW thinks these deals are good b/c KW said they were based on "old school scouting." KW has no idea why the STAT head thinks these deals are good b/c he doesn't utilize the STAT heads complex stats. However, they both came to the same conclusion in this case.

Make sense? :redneck

Mr.1Dog
01-03-2007, 05:10 PM
It's really great what Kenny has done. I apologize if this is redundant and what not. However, I think that getting all these great prospects while letting some "old horses" out to pasture is fine with me. Remember, baseball is a marathon not a sprint. The fact that we have all this young potential talent makes me happy because the Sox can now invest in their young talent instead of holding on to the past. The Sox organization has learned from the past and can now look forward to a great and bright future.

spiffie
01-03-2007, 05:12 PM
So WSIers - the conundrum - agree with said FOBB columnist that KW's deals are good, rip columnist and KW simultaneously, or find some nice middle ground to make yourselves content, such as "the columnist is a stat nerd. KW is no FOBB. None of them understand why these deals are good. Trust KW always - he brought a WS to town."

Discuss.
The answer to how some ridiculous propellorhead who probably lives in his mom's basement and has never actually played baseball in his life could stumble into agreeing with the best GM in baseball...

http://badgerblogger.com/wp-content/blindsquirrel.jpg

Tekijawa
01-03-2007, 05:46 PM
Massett, Gio, Floyd and Denks all give me a Bonerko!

I like the deals too...

munchman33
01-03-2007, 06:36 PM
http://badgerblogger.com/wp-content/blindsquirrel.jpg


:rolling:

soxinem1
01-03-2007, 07:11 PM
The realization is that teams who stand pat do not retain their winning ways. My favorite recent example is the 2001 Mariners, who were world beaters in the regular season, then struggled in the post season. They not only did not make a serious attempt to upgrade the team in subsequent seasons, but totally ignored their minor leagues. Thus, the team ages, falls from contention, then has to over pay FA's to come in and make no impact.

Remember KW at the World Series celebration. He said his job started over the next day, and that his goal was to keep the organization winning every season afterward. That is not easy when you draft low several years in a row, so you have to take other measures to compensate. And since the Sox have been better at finding other teams hidden talents instead of growing their own for several years, hey, you might as well stick with what works.

This was different than his prior responses when he would be asked and criticized about trading so many minor leaguers. All he would say is 1917. He would then follow up with his 'the future for a team that hasn't won in that long is now.

I'll never forget the look on KW's face when they announced two certain player moves. One was picking up Jose Valentin's option for 2004, the other was Konerko's signing after 2005. Both times he had that 'backed in a corner' expression, and I think he has learned that you have to look down the road, now that he has achieved his first title, he wants to be in that position every year to get into the playoffs.

I liked all of his moves thus far, and admire his ability to do them at his pace, and with the teams needs today, tomorrow, and further down the road in mind.

Mohoney
01-04-2007, 05:50 AM
and the Twins rotation is looking pretty weak after Johan...not to mention can they get repeats out of guys like Punto and Bartlett.

They just...keep...finding...guys...

I wish this team WOULD have been contracted. That's how much I hate them.

The Lew Fords, Nick Puntos, Juan Rincons, they bother me immensely. Guys that have no business doing what they are doing. Santana, Nathan, and Liriano, I can live with. But the 7 IP, 2 ER performances against us out of guys like Boof Bonser, with VERY PEDESTRIAN stuff, makes me want to stick my head in the oven.

Next year, we'll have some other no name turd that ruins our punch bowl, I have no doubt about it. I'm just hoping that we have a few of our own turds in the next few years to drop in their punch bowl. Once in my lifetime, I want Twins fans pissing and moaning and saying "Gavin Floyd? GAVIN FLOYD!?" or "Nick Masset? NICK MASSET!?" after a crucial Metrodome meltdown in August or September.

caulfield12
01-04-2007, 09:19 AM
It wasn't the Twins that killed us...although their sweeping through us like scythes through Ukrainian wheat didn't help in the 2nd half.

It was losing to the likes of KC's Adam Bernero, Luke Hudson and Runelvys Hernandez that doomed this team (Garcia last twice to KC in Aug/Sept.), just like the 2003 team's record versus the Tigers.

PalehosePlanet
01-04-2007, 01:22 PM
They just...keep...finding...guys...

I wish this team WOULD have been contracted. That's how much I hate them.

The Lew Fords, Nick Puntos, Juan Rincons, they bother me immensely. Guys that have no business doing what they are doing. Santana, Nathan, and Liriano, I can live with. But the 7 IP, 2 ER performances against us out of guys like Boof Bonser, with VERY PEDESTRIAN stuff, makes me want to stick my head in the oven.



You forgot to mention Denys Reyes who coming into last year was on his 8th team in 10 years and had a career ERA of 5.00. Horrible pickup right? Wrong. He ends up with one of the 6 best ERAs of ALL TIME for pitchers w/50+ innings pitched with .85 (or thereabouts.) Head shaking and head scratching luck...man oh man.

russ99
01-04-2007, 03:06 PM
I love Kenny's moves... as long as he doesn't trade another starter! The Sox are set up to have one of the best bullpens in the majors next season, especially with Bobby losing some weight and adding muscle.