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View Full Version : Possible KW Plan for the future?


Qdiddy
01-01-2007, 04:50 AM
First, I want to point out that I know KW said his plan was to restock our system with fresh new talented arms so we can stay fresh which I think he has and he still might be looking for more.

I personally think that KW is getting young arms and is trying to bank money to make a super serious run at J. Santana who's a FA next year. Isn't Ozzie and Johan pretty close? and no I don't have a "inside" source or didn't hear KW talking on his cell phone at the airport...:)

This is just a gut feeling. I only say this because I saw that the Mets might be offering Mike Pelfrey(and maybe someone else) for Vasquez. If KW makes that deal he'll get back a ton of talent while also saving another 9 millions or so.

Anyone agree with me? If not, why?

caulfield12
01-01-2007, 05:18 AM
First, I want to point out that I know KW said his plan was to restock our system with fresh new talented arms so we can stay fresh which I think he has and he still might be looking for more.

I personally think that KW is getting young arms and is trying to bank money to make a super serious run at J. Santana who's a FA next year. Isn't Ozzie and Johan pretty close? and no I don't have a "inside" source or didn't hear KW talking on his cell phone at the airport...:)

This is just a gut feeling. I only say this because I saw that the Mets might be offering Mike Pelfrey(and maybe someone else) for Vasquez. If KW makes that deal he'll get back a ton of talent while also saving another 9 millions or so.

Anyone agree with me? If not, why?

You need to do a little homework first, Johan Santana is signed through 2008, and the odds of the White Sox being part of the bidding are 5-10% at best, from the way KW is operating currently.

Next, Ozzie hasn't been a huge influence getting any Venezuelans to come here. I do think his presence has been A factor in our retaining Contreras, Garland, Konerko, Dye, AJ and a few others at less than market contracts. And he was probably an indirect influence on the original Freddy Garcia deal, but that wasn't why Seattle traded him to the Sox. Ozzie might have helped getting an extension signed, we don't know for sure.

A Pelfrey for Vazquez deal? No thanks...it would be too much tinkering. I think many have just as much or more confidence in Vazquez improving next year than they do in Jose or Mark. You simply couldn't go into the season hoping to make the playoffs with Jose, Mark, Jon G and 2 huge question marks, no matter how talented.

Sure, if you wanted to become the Atlanta Braves (when Smoltz/Avery/Glavine) came up together, trade Javier as well...but I think our chances of making the playoffs in 2007 go from 50% to 10-15% with that move. KW and JR risk alienating the fan base and losing all those season tickets and sponsorships they've worked to hard to get by putting a 90+ win team out there. The usual 79-83 win White Sox team of the past two decades (when we're not in the playoffs) will really hurt this franchise, THIS SEASON, in this particular moment in Chicago baseball history. But it's an interesting question....

If you kept Garland somehow and ALSO traded Buehrle/Contreras and had
Pelfrey, Danks, Broadway, Phillips, Haeger, McCullogh, Masset, Rasner, Sisco, Gio, Aardsma, Floyd and the other Vazquez (maybe even Honel) to build around, you COULD have a 2-3 World Series winning dynasty. Then again, we SHOULD have had that if all of our 2000 minor league prospects (Kip Wells, Borchard, Corwin Malone, Rauch, Barcelo, Danny Wright, Ginter, Guerrier, etc.) become the type of pitchers/players they were supposed to at the major league level.

jabrch
01-01-2007, 10:41 AM
I'd do Vazquez for Pelfrey in a heartbeat. Pelfrey is a consensus TOP 5 SP prospect. He's not as good as Hughes or Sowers, but he's in the next tier with Bailey, Sanchez Adenhardt and Danks.

That said, I can't see the Sox going after Santana as a FA after 2008. Take Barry Zito money and then add some. KW/JR are not going to buy a SP for something like 6+ years and 20+mm per year. It isn't a smart way to build a team.

soxtalker
01-01-2007, 01:26 PM
I'd do Vazquez for Pelfrey in a heartbeat. Pelfrey is a consensus TOP 5 SP prospect. He's not as good as Hughes or Sowers, but he's in the next tier with Bailey, Sanchez Adenhardt and Danks.

That said, I can't see the Sox going after Santana as a FA after 2008. Take Barry Zito money and then add some. KW/JR are not going to buy a SP for something like 6+ years and 20+mm per year. It isn't a smart way to build a team.

Yes, getting Pelfrey for Vazquez would seem like an easy decision for KW, given his current interest in young pitchers. But I don't see why the Mets would do it. Pelfrey is pretty close to starting, and I don't think that they have a surplus of good pitching prospects. And I don't see KW parting with Vazquez (or any of the other starters) for anything but pitching.

Santana seems to be pretty far away to be planning a FA acquisition. Oh, and that price issue ...

jabrch
01-01-2007, 01:33 PM
Yes, getting Pelfrey for Vazquez would seem like an easy decision for KW, given his current interest in young pitchers. But I don't see why the Mets would do it. Pelfrey is pretty close to starting, and I don't think that they have a surplus of good pitching prospects. And I don't see KW parting with Vazquez (or any of the other starters) for anything but pitching.

Santana seems to be pretty far away to be planning a FA acquisition. Oh, and that price issue ...

Yeah - if the Mets are moving Pelfrey, I can't help but believe they could have gotten more than just Javier. Heck, I am not sure they couldn't get the Mets to give up Rich Harden if they gave up Milledge and Pelfrey. (Harden's price is going up in the next few years, and he hasn't given the As a ton of starts the past two years)

SABRSox
01-01-2007, 01:48 PM
I know the standard operating procedure when it comes to signing pitchers, but I think Johan Santana is the exception to the rule. It would not surprise me to see Kenny do what it takes to get him.

jabrch
01-01-2007, 02:00 PM
I know the standard operating procedure when it comes to signing pitchers, but I think Johan Santana is the exception to the rule. It would not surprise me to see Kenny do what it takes to get him.

I'd be thrilled. I'm just not going out and getting my Johan Santatna White Sox jersey yet.

SABRSox
01-01-2007, 02:18 PM
I'd be thrilled. I'm just not going out and getting my Johan Santatna White Sox jersey yet.

You could always go out and get one of those hot pink jerseys, and put Santana on the back. Of course, only the people that frequent this site would understand why you are wearing a pink jersey.

jabrch
01-01-2007, 02:57 PM
You could always go out and get one of those hot pink jerseys, and put Santana on the back. Of course, only the people that frequent this site would understand why you are wearing a pink jersey.

***** - Nice one!!!!

soxtalker
01-01-2007, 03:17 PM
I know the standard operating procedure when it comes to signing pitchers, but I think Johan Santana is the exception to the rule. It would not surprise me to see Kenny do what it takes to get him.

First, you are, of course, right when you say that Kenny could make an exception. He has been one of the most active traders among GM's, and he certainly does not fear making big or risky trades.

But there have been a lot of posts with suggestions like this over the past few weeks. It's almost like people just don't want to believe that Kenny is really going to go with the young pitchers. Now, maybe he won't, but it seems to me that these "gut feelings" are more of an indication of what the fans (posters) would do, rather than what Kenny has been saying he would do.

buehrle4cy05
01-01-2007, 03:31 PM
When Santana goes out on the market (if current trends continue), he's going to ask for at least 7 years and at least $19 million. I wouldn't be surprised to see some team give him 8 years at $20 million per year, a $160 million contract.

He's a great pitcher and all, but how many World Series has he led Minnesota to? You have to have other players around him, and putting down that much money for one guy historically has never been a good idea.

SABRSox
01-01-2007, 05:09 PM
When Santana goes out on the market (if current trends continue), he's going to ask for at least 7 years and at least $19 million. I wouldn't be surprised to see some team give him 8 years at $20 million per year, a $160 million contract.

He's a great pitcher and all, but how many World Series has he led Minnesota to? You have to have other players around him, and putting down that much money for one guy historically has never been a good idea.

I agree with that, especially considering Santana helps you in only 1 of every 5 games. However, if the Sox decide not to re-sign Garland and Buehrle (which I still don't believe is their motive) then that money freed up could be used for Santana. It makes no sense to go with a cheap, young staff, and not use the money that's been freed up by that direction.

palehozenychicty
01-01-2007, 06:08 PM
I agree with that, especially considering Santana helps you in only 1 of every 5 games. However, if the Sox decide not to re-sign Garland and Buehrle (which I still don't believe is their motive) then that money freed up could be used for Santana. It makes no sense to go with a cheap, young staff, and not use the money that's been freed up by that direction.

In that scenario, however, Santana would have to carry the staff, just like he does now in Minny. That is assuming the varied development of all those young starters. As someone mentioned, he has only led them deep in the postseason once. He's also more human in outdoor conditions. That must also be taken in the mind of any GM going after him in 09.

cws05champ
01-01-2007, 09:33 PM
So would Santana be our #4 behind Aces Danks, Gonzales, Floyd? Why would we want another lefthander in the rotation when we have those two proven LH studs!!!

TheVulture
01-01-2007, 10:53 PM
... and the odds of the White Sox being part of the bidding are 5-10% at best, from the way KW is operating currently.



The way KW has been operating is to avoid overpaying for mediocre talent. We have no idea how he is operating in regards to the highest top-of-the-line pitching, since there hasn't been anyone of that ilk on the market.

caulfield12
01-02-2007, 09:18 PM
The way KW has been operating is to avoid overpaying for mediocre talent. We have no idea how he is operating in regards to the highest top-of-the-line pitching, since there hasn't been anyone of that ilk on the market.


Heretofore, it has always been KW's policy to stay away from the big FA pitching signing. The closest we've come is trying to retain Colon after that trade, and history shows we might have lucked out not keeping the guy around as injuries took their toll last year.

Santana might end up like Mulder/Hudson/Zito and have a "diminished arm" by the time he comes onto the market. Unless they are able to take out a huge insurance policy, as they did with David Wells, it's a no-go.

Jjav829
01-03-2007, 02:30 PM
First, I want to point out that I know KW said his plan was to restock our system with fresh new talented arms so we can stay fresh which I think he has and he still might be looking for more.

I personally think that KW is getting young arms and is trying to bank money to make a super serious run at J. Santana who's a FA next year. Isn't Ozzie and Johan pretty close? and no I don't have a "inside" source or didn't hear KW talking on his cell phone at the airport...:)

This is just a gut feeling. I only say this because I saw that the Mets might be offering Mike Pelfrey(and maybe someone else) for Vasquez. If KW makes that deal he'll get back a ton of talent while also saving another 9 millions or so.

Anyone agree with me? If not, why?

Because it makes no sense to start making moves two years ahead of time for the slight possibility that Johan Santana a.) becomes a free agent and b.) chooses the Sox over whatever huge contract he is offered by the Yankees/Red Sox/etc.

If Johan becomes a free agent, then you go after him hard and if you happen to land him, then you make whatever moves necessary to accommodate the salary you are paying him. But your theory would just be a bad baseball decision.