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rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:27 PM
Per Rotoworld:

Sources told the Dallas Morning News that the Rangers have acquired Brandon McCarthy from the White Sox for John Danks and Nick Masset.


Source: Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/122406dnsporangerstrade.39fa6227.html)

I dunno if I believe this, which is why I didn't but it in the clubhouse.

but let me be the first to say...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Awful.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:29 PM
WHAT???

This would make no sense!!

oeo
12-23-2006, 01:30 PM
If this is true...what the ****? I'd rather they trade Garland than McCarthy...

:whiner:

nixsox
12-23-2006, 01:30 PM
Per Trib Sports. I thought he was untouchable? I don't think he liked the idea of being in the bullpen.

rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:30 PM
headline article on whitesox.com:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061220&content_id=1765276&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

talks about how x-mas came early for B.Mac because the Garcia trade guaranteed him a spot in the rotation. It was posted at 10 AM this morning.

so I don't believe the Dallas Morning News right now. Still, I need an official word....

LITTLE NELL
12-23-2006, 01:31 PM
We just traded McCarthy to Texas for 2 huge prospects.

chisoxfanatic
12-23-2006, 01:32 PM
But, wasn't the whole idea of the Garcia trade to open up a spot in the rotation FOR Mac?

I don't get this?

rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:32 PM
rotoworld's analysis:

Wow. There will also be a couple of lesser prospects exchanged. The White Sox had previously been after both Danks and Masset in a Jon Garland trade. This is far a better trade for the Rangers. McCarthy isn't far away from being a better pitcher than Garland and he's five years away from free agency. Garland, on the other hand, is due $22 million over the next two years before he becomes a free agent. The White Sox are getting a couple of talented arms here, but this is the third trade Ken Williams has made this winter that we're not fond of.

say it ain't so, kenny, say it ain't so!

If this is true, KW might be having the worst offseason ever...

Blob
12-23-2006, 01:32 PM
This was just added to the Sox website today at 10am.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061220&content_id=1765276&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

So I dont think it is true.

Edit: Darn it, a second too late

26th & Princeton
12-23-2006, 01:32 PM
Per ChicagoSports.com......

To Texas for two pitching propects John Danks and Nick Masset. Also both teams swap lower level minor league players. Any confirmation or comments?

MrX
12-23-2006, 01:32 PM
Brandon McCarthy to Texas for John Danks and Nick Masset.

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 01:33 PM
This better be BS...........If not, I just don't get it. Plus, if KW does pull the trigger, he HAS to get more than that!!!!

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:34 PM
This was just added to the Sox website today at 10am.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061220&content_id=1765276&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

So I dont think it is true.

The only bad thing about the piece is that it is a feature-type article and could have been written at any time over the last couple of weeks. To me, it doesn't mean much.

HoosierHerb
12-23-2006, 01:34 PM
I didn't see this coming!!:o:

oeo
12-23-2006, 01:34 PM
This was just added to the Sox website today at 10am.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061220&content_id=1765276&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

So I dont think it is true.

I don't think this is evidence of anything. The site isn't run by Kenny Williams. Of course many people would think that McCarthy would be here, but this is Kenny Williams we're talking about. I still hope this isn't true, though.

SoxSpeed22
12-23-2006, 01:34 PM
Brandon McCarthy to Texas for John Danks and Nick Masset.Not aimed at anyone...
What in the hell is going on? We did want to stock up for the long run, but not like this!
Who are these people?! (No relation to 7-11 employees)

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 01:35 PM
We just traded McCarthy to Texas for 2 huge prospects.

What the hell is KW doing !!!!!! Danks is McCarthy from two years ago. Massett is another "project"

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:38 PM
From ChicagoSports.com (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061223soxtrade,1,6229686.story?coll=cs-home-headlines) - looks official to me.

NOOOOOOO!!!!

chaerulez
12-23-2006, 01:38 PM
Wow, did not see this coming. I'm surprised it was Vazquez that was dealt. Of course, it's way to early to judge this trade right now. We'll see after the 2007 season how it worked out.

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 01:38 PM
I don't think this is evidence of anything. The site isn't run by Kenny Williams. Of course many people would think that McCarthy would be here, but this is Kenny Williams we're talking about. I still hope this isn't true, though.


It's being reported by the Tribune that this trade is a done deal! *** KW??

jdm2662
12-23-2006, 01:38 PM
Looks like it's true.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061223soxtrade,1,6229686.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

JGarlandrules20
12-23-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm not exactly a fan of this move.
Dang. I knew I shouldn't have gotten my Brandon McCarthy player shirt. :(:

So, who's going to fill his spot in the rotation??

rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:39 PM
this is ridiculous.

we appear to be straight up giving up on 2007. We're swapping our top pitching prospect THAT'S MAJOR LEAGUE READY for other people's top prospects now?!?!?!?!?

This is ridiculous. B.Mac should have left for no less than a top flight major leaguer.

Is kenny crazy?!

oeo
12-23-2006, 01:40 PM
So who is in our ****ing rotation for 2007, now?

The rotation was fine before...now Kenny better hope everything works out. Of course the offseason isn't over yet, but I still don't like this.

MrX
12-23-2006, 01:41 PM
So, who's going to fill his spot in the rotation??
Probably Floyd

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 01:41 PM
Has this potential deal been confirmed? I heard it posed as speculation during the DePaul broadcast.

I just checked the MLB website and the Chicago White Sox official website and nothing about a trade has been posted.

If Brandon McCarthy is traded then in return the CWS must receive an established starter.

If true, this deal has to be part of a chain reaction.

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 01:42 PM
Wow, did not see this coming. I'm surprised it was Vazquez that was dealt. Of course, it's way to early to judge this trade right now. We'll see after the 2007 season how it worked out.

Yeah, so our rotation is now Garland, Contreras, Buehrle, Vasquez and "Project A"

What the heck is KW doing? What happened to Pitching and Defense? It's great that we are stockpiling the young arms for the future, but what about 2007? And I don't understand trading BMac (a young, inexpensive arm that we have been grooming for two years) for 2 young arms that are nowhere near as experienced/MLB ready as McCarthy?

I just don't get it.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-23-2006, 01:42 PM
Love the trade you get 2 ML ready pitchers for a guy who when he couldn't get his fastball over they would just sit on his change or curve. Danks will beat out Floyd for the #5 spot in the rotation while Masset will fit in very well in our BP, if this trade accomplishes anything it will add very strong depth in our pitching staffs something we havent had around here in a very long time.

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 01:43 PM
linky:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061223&content_id=1767476&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

MrX
12-23-2006, 01:43 PM
Has this potential deal been confirmed?
Cubune and Dallas Morning News both say so

Crede_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:43 PM
Wow, did not see this coming. I'm surprised it was Vazquez that was dealt. Of course, it's way to early to judge this trade right now. We'll see after the 2007 season how it worked out.
:?:
When did that happen?

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:43 PM
So who is in our ****ing rotation for 2007, now?

The question mark above is the only thing that you can put into the roation right now.

I am guessing Garland will still be around, but the way it is going, there are probably still more prospects to be acquired.

rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:44 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061223&content_id=1767476&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

it's on whitesox.com now.

what the **** is going on on the south side?!?!?!

MrX
12-23-2006, 01:44 PM
Rotoword's take

Sources told the Dallas Morning News that the Rangers have acquired Brandon McCarthy from the White Sox for John Danks and Nick Masset.
Wow. There will also be a couple of lesser prospects exchanged. The White Sox had previously been after both Danks and Masset in a Jon Garland trade. This is far a better trade for the Rangers. McCarthy isn't far away from being a better pitcher than Garland and he's five years away from free agency. Garland, on the other hand, is due $22 million over the next two years before he becomes a free agent. The White Sox are getting a couple of talented arms here, but this is the third trade Ken Williams has made this winter that we're not fond of. Dec. 23 - 2:24 pm et

Crede_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:45 PM
Wow Just wow!

rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:46 PM
Kenny Williams stole Christmas...

I am extremely bummed out right now, and see no logic behind this deal. I was angry after the Garcia deal. But I'm just plain sad after this B.Mac deal.

LITTLE NELL
12-23-2006, 01:47 PM
Something big has to come from this, maybe Zito.

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 01:47 PM
Love the trade you get 2 ML ready pitchers for a guy who when he couldn't get his fastball over they would just sit on his change or curve. Danks will beat out Floyd for the #5 spot in the rotation while Masset will fit in very well in our BP, if this trade accomplishes anything it will add very strong depth in our pitching staffs something we havent had around here in a very long time.


I hope you are right. but I don;t see either of these guys as being "ML ready" yet. I see it as giving up on your investment in McCarthy in exchange for a new investment in two less experienced "prospects". IMO, it means that KW's talk about McCarthy being the future and "untouchable" was BS.

Once again, I hope you are right, but this just seems like a purely speculative move on the part of KW, disregarding the fact that this team should be WS caliber for the next two years.

JGarlandrules20
12-23-2006, 01:47 PM
Yeah, so our rotation is now Garland, Contreras, Buehrle, Vasquez and "Project A"

Wow. It'll be like old times again. The dreaded nonexistant fifth starter.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 01:48 PM
I'll preface this by saying I really liked the Garcia deal and love the Gload deal. I am not sure what to think of this deal mainly b/c I do not know enough about Denks. I get the feeling the Sox view Denks as an equal to McCarthy, thus getting him plus another young arm made the trade feasible. I also get the feeling that the Sox were not happy with McCarthy. From an article about the trade:

McCarthy was regarded as one of the Sox's top pitchers of the future, but he was uncomfortable in a relief role as well as the possibility he would start the 2007 season at Triple-A Charlotte if he didn't win a spot in the rotation.

This is TRULY a trade that no one will know enough about to evaluate until at least the 2007 plays out.

3rd_Gen_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:48 PM
I fully trust Kenny, but this trade doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. I've never heard of either of these guys.

oeo
12-23-2006, 01:48 PM
this is ridiculous.

we appear to be straight up giving up on 2007. We're swapping our top pitching prospect THAT'S MAJOR LEAGUE READY for other people's top prospects now?!?!?!?!?

This is ridiculous. B.Mac should have left for no less than a top flight major leaguer.

Is kenny crazy?!

:rolleyes:

Trib get to your head much?

rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:48 PM
Love the trade you get 2 ML ready pitchers for a guy who when he couldn't get his fastball over they would just sit on his change or curve. Danks will beat out Floyd for the #5 spot in the rotation while Masset will fit in very well in our BP, if this trade accomplishes anything it will add very strong depth in our pitching staffs something we havent had around here in a very long time.

...

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 01:48 PM
Conspiracy theory time...

Wasn't Danks' brother (a CF'er) drafted by the Chicago White Sox?

Brandon McCarthy and Brian Anderson hung out together quite often.

Might the Danks' move be part of KW's plan of signing the brother? (I am not sure of signing rights so this is a WAG.)

Might the breakup of McCarthy and Anderson light a fire under Anderson?

UofCSoxFan
12-23-2006, 01:49 PM
Love the trade you get 2 ML ready pitchers for a guy who when he couldn't get his fastball over they would just sit on his change or curve. Danks will beat out Floyd for the #5 spot in the rotation while Masset will fit in very well in our BP, if this trade accomplishes anything it will add very strong depth in our pitching staffs something we havent had around here in a very long time.

I kinda like this trade. I personally always thought McCarthy was over-rated, at least in the sense that people assumed he would be a stud. Keep in mind before spring training two years ago he wasn't even a top 15 prospect in the Sox organization. He had an average year at best last year and seemed unreceptive to doing what is best for the team if that meant he'd be in the bullpen.

Danks is a stud and will be in the starting rotation if not this year then next. Masset looks legit too and is having a great year in winter ball this year.

Crede_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:51 PM
Could Haegar be the 5th starter now?

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 01:51 PM
IMO, it means that KW's talk about McCarthy being the future and "untouchable" was BS.



Of course it was BS. Pretty much everything said to the media is BS, b/c you do not want to give away your hand. Almost no player in sports is untouchable if the right deal comes along.

soxfan26
12-23-2006, 01:52 PM
We just traded McCarthy to Texas for 2 huge prospects.

Huge like Randy Johnson or Bobby Jenks?

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 01:52 PM
This is TRULY a trade that no one will know enough about to evaluate until at least the 2007 plays out.

Absolutely right. And the quote that you pulled is probably correct. However, I don't blame Brandon for being uncomfortable in both of those situations. I felt like Brandon deserved a chance to sart. Probably deserved that chance last year until we acquired Javier.

MrX
12-23-2006, 01:52 PM
Love the trade you get 2 ML ready pitchers for a guy who when he couldn't get his fastball over they would just sit on his change or curve. Danks will beat out Floyd for the #5 spot in the rotation while Masset will fit in very well in our BP, if this trade accomplishes anything it will add very strong depth in our pitching staffs something we havent had around here in a very long time.
I had read something that I cannot find now when their names came up in the Garland talks that said Masset may be ready to pitch in the majors in 07, Danks won't be ready.

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 01:53 PM
Brandon McCarthy to Texas for John Danks and Nick Masset.
Never heard of them. Can someone post the low down on these guys?

rowand33
12-23-2006, 01:53 PM
:rolleyes:

Trib get to your head much?

I don't read the trib.

But we came into the offseason with 6 good starting pitchers. We now have 4. One of those starting ptichers is coming off a bad year, one sorta sucks (Vazquez). There's not much out there on the FA market after Zito, and we've traded away all of our bargaining chips for pitching prospects. And on top of the pitching thing, we have outfield depth problems, including a major problem at leadoff man. We also could use an upgrade at shortstop.

So, we've made three trades and maybe filled a hole in the bullpen with Sisco. And we filled a hole at backup C. We still have the hole at leadoff and shortstop, possibly one in CF, no 4th outfielder, and now we've created a hole at 5th starter.

No you're right, we're trying real ****ing hard to win in 2007.

The 2009 Sox pitching staff looks awesome right now though. Yay!

CubsfansareDRUNK
12-23-2006, 01:53 PM
No!!! Not McCarthy! Who the hell are either of these guys?

chaerulez
12-23-2006, 01:54 PM
I like the ceiling of the rotation. But it's certainly a gamble.

Not only do we still have four veterans, our young arms now are Danks, Masset, Gio, Floyd, Heager, Phillips (who maybe a AAAA player or a Jamie Moyer type pitcher), Broadway, McCullough, Russell, and Long. Basically this move will either determine if we are yearly contenders for a while or have to go through a short rebuilding stage.

oeo
12-23-2006, 01:54 PM
Wow. It'll be like old times again. The dreaded nonexistant fifth starter.

Well, at least this year we have talent, and not Danny Wright and the other dozen pitchers we threw out there.

Depends, though...Kenny and the scouts must see something in all these young pitchers. Kenny has already said that he never wants to be in that position with no 5th starter again, so he must have confidence in what he's doing.

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 01:54 PM
Of course it was BS. Pretty much everything said to the media is BS, b/c you do not want to give away your hand. Almost no player in sports is untouchable if the right deal comes along.

So KW talk for the last two years about his plans for McCarthy to the media AND the fans was all just smoke for trades? I don't think so, I just think KW "long term" plan has changed and suddenly we are gonna start speculating on that 5th starter again....Hoping that one of our many prospects can be popped into place!

AND I agree that no players are truly untouchable. But this trade doesn't sound like a "steal" to me. I hope Kw is correct, but it just seems like a bad move to me.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 01:54 PM
Never heard of them. Can someone post the low down on these guys?

I am in the same boat. All I know about Danks is that he was the #1 prospect in the Rangers system, is 18 months younger than McCarthy, and is left-handed.

TomBradley72
12-23-2006, 01:55 PM
So let's get this straight....we've given up two solid arms (Garcia and McCarthy) for 4 unproven "prospects". But at the same time our offense is built around players that will most likely be "rapidly aging" in the next two years (Podsednik, Dye, Thome, AJ...I'd even throw Iguchi in the mix). So our pitching staff is built for the long haul, but our offense is built "to win now". Unless this is part of a bigger plan that will unfold over the winter...KW's success in 2005 is looking more and more like a "one hit wonder"....and any real hope of going back to the World Series with our current offense is going right out the window.

There's no salary upside on this with BMac at the earliest part of his career...very puzzling.

MrX
12-23-2006, 01:55 PM
Never heard of them. Can someone post the low down on these guys?
Danks is considered the top prospect in the Rangers system, Masset is in the top 5-10 range. Both are pitchers.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 01:56 PM
So KW talk for the last two years about his plans for McCarthy to the media AND the fans was all just smoke for trades? I don't think so, I just think KW "long term" plan has changed and suddenly we are gonna start speculating on that 5th starter again....Hoping that one of our many prospects can be popped into place!

Almost no one is untouchable in the right deal. Apparently, in KW's mind, this was the right deal. He doesn't sit around thinking: well I told our fans and the media that I would not trade McCarthy, so now I can't when I get a deal I want. Everything said to the public should be taken with a grain of salt.

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 01:57 PM
Danks is considered the top prospect in the Rangers system, Masset is in the top 5-10 range. Both are pitchers.So Danks has no ML experiance? Looks like I'm gonna have to trust Kenny on this one. McCarthy was good, but expendable.

edit: are these guys RHP or LHP?

TDog
12-23-2006, 01:58 PM
I kinda like this trade. I personally always thought McCarthy was over-rated, at least in the sense that people assumed he would be a stud. ...

I certainly think posters at WSI overrated McCarthy. I'm surprised that Texas thought so much of him.

Lorenzo Barcelo
12-23-2006, 01:58 PM
On BA's top ten prospects for Texas, Danks was 1st and Masset was 8th on their list. Danks is projected to be a #1 starter one day. Not major league ready in my opinion, but just needs some fine tuning. Masset throws 89-95 as a starter and 97-98 as a reliever, but still has to work on his control. Only negative is that he'll be 25 this may.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 01:59 PM
So let's get this straight....we've given up two solid arms (Garcia and McCarthy) for 4 unproven "prospects". But at the same time our offense is built around players that will most likely be "rapidly aging" in the next two years (Podsednik, Dye, Thome, AJ...I'd even throw Iguchi in the mix). So our pitching staff is built for the long haul, but our offense is built "to win now". Unless this is part of a bigger plan that will unfold over the winter...KW's success in 2005 is looking more and more like a "one hit wonder"....and any real hope of going back to the World Series with our current offense is going right out the window.

There's no salary upside on this with Fingernails on a blackboard at the earliest part of his career...very puzzling.

McCarthy is as unproven as Danks or any of these other young arms. Brandon had a good couple of months in MLB at the end of 2005. His 2006 was not that great. And 4/5 of the pitching staff are veterans. That did not change with this McCarthy trade. The #5 spot will still be held by someone who is not a proven MLB starter. And that may not necessarily be a bad thing. We won't know until the season plays out.

Tadahito
12-23-2006, 02:00 PM
So...has anyone ever gotten a jersey re-lettered at GrandStand?

How much does it cost?

:(:

soltrain21
12-23-2006, 02:02 PM
What the hell.

CashMan
12-23-2006, 02:02 PM
I think this trade means the 5th spot in the rotaion and last spot in the bullpen will be Floyd and Haegar.

Baby Fisk
12-23-2006, 02:02 PM
I'm gonna hurl.

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 02:03 PM
What this means is that there is a world of pressure on Mr. Buerhle.

I wonder what Don Cooper's role in this trade happened to be.

Spring training will be so interesting this year.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:03 PM
Absolutely right. And the quote that you pulled is probably correct. However, I don't blame Brandon for being uncomfortable in both of those situations. I felt like Brandon deserved a chance to sart. Probably deserved that chance last year until we acquired Javier.

I don't blame Brandon either. But I get the feeling KW was not as uncomfortable trading him after his so-so 2006 season. I'm not saying KW is right or wrong to feel that way, but it's certainly the feeling I've gotten as of late.

On the whole, I do not see how our current projected 2007 rotation has changed much from what we were seeing 2 months ago. A couple months ago, we were pretty sure Garcia would be gone and a young, unproven arm (McCarthy) would take his place. Now, Garcia is gone and a different young, unproven young arm will take his place.

Beer Can Chicken
12-23-2006, 02:05 PM
These prospects must be AWESOME if they couldn't even crack the Rangers rotation.

In these eyes, this looks like a step backward for 2007.

oeo
12-23-2006, 02:05 PM
I don't read the trib.

But we came into the offseason with 6 good starting pitchers. We now have 4. One of those starting ptichers is coming off a bad year, one sorta sucks (Vazquez). There's not much out there on the FA market after Zito, and we've traded away all of our bargaining chips for pitching prospects. And on top of the pitching thing, we have outfield depth problems, including a major problem at leadoff man. We also could use an upgrade at shortstop.

So, we've made three trades and maybe filled a hole in the bullpen with Sisco. And we filled a hole at backup C. We still have the hole at leadoff and shortstop, possibly one in CF, no 4th outfielder, and now we've created a hole at 5th starter.

No you're right, we're trying real ****ing hard to win in 2007.

The 2009 Sox pitching staff looks awesome right now though. Yay!

How do you know how many very good starters we have? I'm pretty sure Kenny Williams and all of the Sox scouts get paid for what they do...they know a hell of a lot more about who is a very good pitcher than you or anyone here will ever know.

And why does Vazquez get so much crap? I don't remember El Duque getting flamed in 2005...Vazquez had a better 2006 than El Duque did 2005. Yes, it was sooo terrible having Javier Vazquez as our fifth starter.

Show me why these guys that were acquired are not 'very good' pitchers...

We don't have a hole at leadoff (and who knows? Kenny may still go get someone else, he just surprised us now, hasn't he?). Anderson will be fine, and even to Uribe's standards, it was a bad season for him in 2006. We underachieved last year, stop freaking out.

DeuceUnit
12-23-2006, 02:07 PM
This off season just keeps getting better and better.

Is this years slogan: "2007 White Sox baseball, where everything is about possibly winning in 2009."???

Hunker down
12-23-2006, 02:07 PM
Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 02:08 PM
These prospects must be AWESOME if they couldn't even crack the Rnagers rotation.

I believe this is a matter of the Texas Rangers going for broke in 2007. They, the Texas Rangers, felt they needed a top flight starter to win their division. This is basically a strategy of mortgaging the future for the present.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:08 PM
How do you know how many very good starters we have? I'm pretty sure Kenny Williams and all of the Sox scouts get paid for what they do...they know a hell of a lot more about who is a very good pitcher than you or anyone here will ever know.




A lot of people around these parts need to grasp this concept.

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 02:09 PM
I believe this is a matter of the Texas Rangers going for broke in 2007. They, the Texas Rangers, felt they needed a top flight starter to win their division. This is basically a strategy of mortgaging the future for the present.


Yeah, but what the hell is the Sox' strategy?

soltrain21
12-23-2006, 02:09 PM
I expected Young to be coming back if McCarthy was ever leaving for Texas.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:10 PM
Yeah, but what the hell is the Sox' strategy?

Well, from the time when the 2006 season ended until now, our projected starting rotation has not really changed that much. And in the mean time, we've picked up a stockpile of young, talented, cheap arms. Some would argue that it's a damn good strategy. But only time will tell.

TheVulture
12-23-2006, 02:10 PM
Has KW lost his mind?

whitesoxfan
12-23-2006, 02:11 PM
So what the hell are we doing in 07? This trade makes sense if we're building to win in 2009, but what happened to winning NOW?

veeter
12-23-2006, 02:11 PM
I think the Sox are going to lock up Garland and Buerhle long term. This is like a two for one deal. Two great arms for one. Hey, maybe McCarthy won't even be good.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 02:12 PM
I expected Young to be coming back if McCarthy was ever leaving for Texas.

Ding. Ding. Ding. Yeah - If you are going to create a hole (i.e. 5th starter), one would think that you would fill another.

Blueprint1
12-23-2006, 02:13 PM
I really don't like this move. If one of these guys works out its a great deal. I hate when I have to say if.

MrX
12-23-2006, 02:14 PM
I think the Sox are going to lock up Garland and Buerhle long term. This is like a two for one deal.
I think it's the opposite for Buerhle. Danks will replace him as the lefty in the rotation in 08.

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 02:15 PM
Yeah, but what the hell is the Sox' strategy?

Maybe this part of a series of moves, maybe the Danks' move help get his little brother signed (do the CWS still have right to the brother after he committeed to Uof T?), maybe this is an attempt to light a fire under BA.

Who knows...

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:17 PM
Maybe this part of a series of moves, maybe the Danks' move help get his little brother signed (do the CWS still have right to the brother after he committeed to Uof T?), maybe this is an attempt to light a fire under BA.

Who knows...

And maybe KW and the Sox are of the opinion that Danks is better than McCarthy. No one here really knows. And I highly doubt people here have seen Danks pitch extensively. I don't see how people here can have a strong opinion one way or another on this trade with such unknown quantities involved.

MrX
12-23-2006, 02:17 PM
do the CWS still have right to the brother after he committeed to Uof T?
No

alohafri
12-23-2006, 02:18 PM
Has this potential deal been confirmed? I heard it posed as speculation during the DePaul broadcast.

I just checked the MLB website and the Chicago White Sox official website and nothing about a trade has been posted.

If Brandon McCarthy is traded then in return the CWS must receive an established starter.

If true, this deal has to be part of a chain reaction.

No it doesn't.

:reinsy "We already won the World Series. It's time to give the city back to the Cubs."

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 02:20 PM
And maybe KW and the Sox are of the opinion that Danks is better than McCarthy. No one here really knows. And I highly doubt people here have seen Danks pitch extensively. I don't see how people here can have a strong opinion one way or another on this trade with such unknown quantities involved.

ilsox7,

I am not questioning the move; I am wondering who KW is playing chess against.

Danks has great potential; I agree when you say we need to see where this move takes us.

batmanZoSo
12-23-2006, 02:20 PM
I am in the same boat. All I know about Danks is that he was the #1 prospect in the Rangers system, is 18 months younger than McCarthy, and is left-handed.

I say good move. McCarthy will be a poor man's Black Jack at best. His arm isn't gonna hold up and I don't think he'll be contending for any Cy Young awards either.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:21 PM
ilsox7,

I am not questioning the move; I am wondering who KW is playing chess against.

Danks has great potential; I agree when you say we need to see where this move takes us.

The 2nd part of my post was not directed at you. My bad for being unclear. I was just adding onto what you were saying about KW's possible mindset. And then addressing a lot of the opinions being stated around here that they have given up on 2007.

Juice16
12-23-2006, 02:21 PM
Well, from the time when the 2006 season ended until now, our projected starting rotation has not really changed that much. And in the mean time, we've picked up a stockpile of young, talented, cheap arms. Some would argue that it's a damn good strategy. But only time will tell.

Isn't McCarthy a young talented cheap arm?

jongarlandlover
12-23-2006, 02:21 PM
oh. my. god. what the hell is going on?

i do not like this move - who's going to fill in that last starter spot now?

alohafri
12-23-2006, 02:22 PM
Ding. Ding. Ding. Yeah - If you are going to create a hole (i.e. 5th starter), one would think that you would fill another.

Williams had gone from a genius to a dumbass in two years. You mean to tell me that for two guys with major league experience, one with a few good/near great years under his belt you can't get more than minor leaguers? Check his papers! I think he is bucking for McFail's job!

aryzner
12-23-2006, 02:22 PM
No idea what I think of this yet. I was kinda hoping to see Brandon in the rotation though to see how well he'd fare this year.

Standing Ovation
12-23-2006, 02:22 PM
This isn't over. We now have an enormous inventory of young pitching. KW has to be turning this around for something better. He hasn't made his annual "keep the fans happy" move yet.

alohafri
12-23-2006, 02:22 PM
oh. my. god. what the hell is going on?

i do not like this move - who's going to fill in that last starter spot now?

I think we have someone in Kannapolis who will work for food.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:24 PM
Isn't McCarthy a young talented cheap arm?

Sure. But we just got two young, talented, cheap arms for him. And as I've said, maybe the Sox think Danks is actually better than McCarthy, therefore it makes sense to get him and another arm in return. I've never seen Danks throw one pitch, so I certainly cannot have an informed opinion about him (even though many others apparently are experts regarding Danks).

All I know is that McCarthy had a great minor league track-record, a ****ty MLB debut followed by two great months in 2005 and a so-so 2006.

hose
12-23-2006, 02:24 PM
Hard to figure Kenny's plan for the up coming season. I like all the moves but as it was stated earlier the Sox are built to win now. The #5 pitcher becomes a question mark.

Ol' No. 2
12-23-2006, 02:24 PM
I say good move. McCarthy will be a poor man's Black Jack at best. His arm isn't gonna hold up and I don't think he'll be contending for any Cy Young awards either.I think you've touched on the problem. KW expressed serious reservations at the beginning of last year as to whether McCarthy could hold up to 200+ IP, which was the reason he gave for not putting him in the rotation then. Maybe he still doesn't think he will hold up.

Barring another move (always a possibility), it looks like Floyd will have the inside track on the 5th starter slot, although Haeger and Danks will be given the chance to compete.

batmanZoSo
12-23-2006, 02:25 PM
Sure. But we just got two young, talented, cheap arms for him. And as I've said, maybe the Sox think Danks is actually better than McCarthy, therefore it makes sense to get him and another arm in return. I've never seen Danks throw one pitch, so I certainly cannot have an informed opinion about him (even though many others apparently are experts regarding Danks).

All I know is that McCarthy had a great minor league track-record, a ****ty MLB debut followed by two great months in 2005 and a so-so 2006.

QFT

Juice16
12-23-2006, 02:25 PM
What I don't understand is if Texas is hard up for pitching, why are they trading us two of their young pitchers?

soxrk
12-23-2006, 02:27 PM
Yeah, but what the hell is the Sox' strategy?
I'm trying to have faith in William"s strategy, but he looks like the slash and burn tactics of old frantic frank Lane of the 1950's. It is not like we have to rebuild, but I see hardly any major league experience coming to us that clearly is dependable for this season.

batmanZoSo
12-23-2006, 02:28 PM
I think you've touched on the problem. KW expressed serious reservations at the beginning of last year as to whether McCarthy could hold up to 200+ IP, which was the reason he gave for not putting him in the rotation then. Maybe he still doesn't think he will hold up.

Barring another move (always a possibility), it looks like Floyd will have the inside track on the 5th starter slot, although Haeger and Danks will be given the chance to compete.

I await the day we hear of major surgery for McCarthy--and hope it never happens--but he always struck me as a ticking time bomb in that respect. I wish him the best regardless.

soltrain21
12-23-2006, 02:28 PM
What I don't understand is if Texas is hard up for pitching, why are they trading us two of their young pitchers?


Because they feel Brandon is ML ready, while the two we got are not.

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 02:28 PM
This isn't over. We now have an enormous inventory of young pitching. KW has to be turning this around for something better. He hasn't made his annual "keep the fans happy" move yet.

KW's personnel moves do not have to make White Sox fans happy. Personnel moves are a means to an end. That end being what we experienced as fans in October 2005.

Winning the World Series goes a long way in keeping this White Sox fan happy...

hose
12-23-2006, 02:28 PM
I could see a package of young pitchers and Anderson going to Tampa for Crawford.

Kenny isn't done trading yet.

oeo
12-23-2006, 02:29 PM
Ding. Ding. Ding. Yeah - If you are going to create a hole (i.e. 5th starter), one would think that you would fill another.

It would take a lot more than Brandon McCarthy to get Michael Young. Let's be realistic here...

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 02:29 PM
It would take a lot more than Brandon McCarthy to get Michael Young. Let's be realistic here...

Yeah - I know (i.e. Floyd, Haeger, etc.).

broker3d
12-23-2006, 02:30 PM
I could see a package of young pitchers and Anderson going to Tampa for Crawford.

Kenny isn't done trading yet.


Tampa does NOT need another young outfielder.

Ol' No. 2
12-23-2006, 02:31 PM
What I don't understand is if Texas is hard up for pitching, why are they trading us two of their young pitchers?When it comes to pitching, you can always count on the Rangers to do the wrong thing.

StatHead21
12-23-2006, 02:32 PM
This just doesn't make any sense.

Danks is good, but not as good as McCarthy and definatly not MLB ready, this is just dumb.

kittle42
12-23-2006, 02:33 PM
Anyone who thinks Williams is making any major signings/moves is deluding themselves, in my opinion. He came right out and told us that acquiring young arms was his goal. He has done that. Many here are not happy with this new direction, and I think that's why they keep insisting "Kenny's not done yet," etc. But don't get your hopes up - I still say what you see now with the Sox is what you're gonna get come April.

Heffalump
12-23-2006, 02:33 PM
I could see a package of young pitchers and Anderson going to Tampa for Crawford.

Kenny isn't done trading yet.

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. People need to give up the Carl Crawford talk. Tampa Bay is asking teams for the moon for him.

Well, I trust KW, as he is the GM that got us the WS in '05. But he isn't just flying under the radar this winter, he is burrowing underground with his plan for '07. I'm not happy with the moves for inproving the '07 team, but you gotta trust K-Dub.

oeo
12-23-2006, 02:33 PM
This just doesn't make any sense.

Danks is good, but not as good as McCarthy and definatly not MLB ready, this is just dumb.

If a guy named StatHead says it's dumb, it must be dumb.

iamkoza
12-23-2006, 02:36 PM
surprising for sure, i'm in the minority of people who weren't big mccarthy fans, now does the 5th spot become the winless void it was a couple of years ago?

johnny_mostil
12-23-2006, 02:36 PM
These prospects must be AWESOME if they couldn't even crack the Rangers rotation.

In these eyes, this looks like a step backward for 2007.

Danks is 21 years old, and still will be on opening day. He couldn't crack the Rangers rotation because he's barely only enough to drink, and the Rangers didn't want to rush him.

This guy is a stud. Kenny knows his minor league players. I'm shocked he didn't over-value his 'major league' player.

Ol' No. 2
12-23-2006, 02:36 PM
This just doesn't make any sense.

Danks is good, but not as good as McCarthy and definatly not MLB ready, this is just dumb.Disagree. I haven't seen Danks pitch, but everything I've been able to dig up on him says he's potentially a #1 or #2 starter. I don't believe McCarthy has that high of a ceiling. McCarthy is a year farther along in his development, which is why Texas made this deal.

MDF3530
12-23-2006, 02:37 PM
*** is Kenny doing?!? McCarthy is the best pitcher since Buehrle to come up through the Sox farm system.

Kenny, for the sake of us Sox fans, lay off the eggnog!!!

johnny_mostil
12-23-2006, 02:39 PM
Well, I trust KW, as he is the GM that got us the WS in '05. But he isn't just flying under the radar this winter, he is burrowing underground with his plan for '07. I'm not happy with the moves for inproving the '07 team, but you gotta trust K-Dub.

I am. The 2006 team failed because of a shocking lack of overall depth as much as anything else. When Anderson struggled, there was no one to help out. The backup catching failed. The back of the bullpen failed. The moves Williams has made have broadened the pool of 21- to 23-year-old capable players back close to normal for a major league franchise.

MrX
12-23-2006, 02:39 PM
McCarthy is the best pitcher since Buehrle to come up through the Sox farm system.

That's not much of an accomplishment

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 02:40 PM
*** is Kenny doing?!? McCarthy is the best pitcher since Buehrle to come up through the Sox farm system.

Kenny, for the sake of us Sox fans, lay off the eggnog!!!I wouldnt go that far. He was good, but not Buehrle good.

DeuceUnit
12-23-2006, 02:40 PM
Danks AAA stats: 4-5 with a 4.35era...not too impressive.

johnny_mostil
12-23-2006, 02:40 PM
Sure. But we just got two young, talented, cheap arms for him. And as I've said, maybe the Sox think Danks is actually better than McCarthy, therefore it makes sense to get him and another arm in return. I've never seen Danks throw one pitch, so I certainly cannot have an informed opinion about him (even though many others apparently are experts regarding Danks).

I live in Dallas. Danks has wicked, wicked stuff.

DeadMoney
12-23-2006, 02:40 PM
:o:

Bandwagon: Crashed!

batmanZoSo
12-23-2006, 02:41 PM
When it comes to pitching, you can always count on the Rangers to do the wrong thing.

Word. You should automatically partially-like any pitching move your team makes with Texas. And then you judge the merits of the trade objectively.

MDF3530
12-23-2006, 02:42 PM
surprising for sure, i'm in the minority of people who weren't big mccarthy fans, now does the 5th spot become the winless void it was a couple of years ago?Yes, Vazquez will be the 5th starter. Kenny can't get past his man-crush to see that he's not very good. I mean, why else would Arizona trade him to us when they were starving for pitching? Why else would the Yankees give up on him?

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 02:42 PM
Danks AAA stats: 4-5 with a 4.35era...not too impressive.thanks for pulling that up, youre right not that impressive.

I live in Dallas. Danks has wicked, wicked stuff.Lets hope so.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:43 PM
I live in Dallas. Danks has wicked, wicked stuff.

That's what I am reading everywhere. His ceiling is an ace left-hander. Can you imagine him and Gio at the top of our rotation in 2008 or 2009?

The key to next year, IMO, is Jose pitching like a top of the rotation starter, MB not sucking, and Garland pitching like he did in 2005 and the 2nd half of 2006. If those three things happen, this team will be the favorite in 2007. As many have said, the 2006 team greatly underachieved, yet still won 90 games in baseball's best division. With the Twins taking a MAJOR hit this offseason, the Sox are in good shape for 2007 AND many years beyond.

MDF3530
12-23-2006, 02:44 PM
I wouldnt go that far. He was good, but not Buehrle good.I would.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 02:45 PM
thanks for pulling that up, youre right not that impressive.

While everything can't be judged by ERA, he had a 2.32 over his last six starts last year at AAA. This could also be skewed by players getting the September call-up.

WhiteSox5187
12-23-2006, 02:45 PM
So apparently Kenny has developed a drug problem.

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 02:46 PM
I would.come on now, MB was the man in 2005 (2006, no:(: ) Mccarthy was just not there. I really hope MB can come back to 05 form.

Harry Potter
12-23-2006, 02:47 PM
So apparently Kenny has developed a drug problem.

Or drank too much last night at the company Christmas party

cws05champ
12-23-2006, 02:48 PM
This was just in this weeks USA today about the Rangers System:

Danks is probably the finest pitching prospect the Rangers have had since Kevin Brown and Bobby Witt. He has 90-92 mph fastball, a dazzling curve and a solid change up. Danks, 21, went 1-4 with a 7.15 ERA for Double A frisco in April but went 2-0 3.32 in May and 2-0 2.16 in June when he was promoted to AAA Oklahoma. Then he got erratic finishing with a 4-5 record and 4.33 ERA. Overall he has 154K in 140 innings, the most in the Rangers system. He has a career K rate of more than 1/inning.

Nick Masset was not on the list of top5 prospects, but had a stellar performance for Venados de Matzatlan of the Mexican Pac league. Masset throws 95mph with a sharp slider aqmd good curveball, had a2.61 ERA with 22K's in 20 2/3 innings in winter ball. He has 4.15 ERA in 8 games for the Rangers.

Slats
12-23-2006, 02:48 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Our team is in rebuilding mode....

jabrch
12-23-2006, 02:48 PM
Danks has a higher ceiling than Brandon. Massett will help the pen this year. The only drop is that in 2007 we will go from Brandon to ?. That's a drop or a gain of ?. The good news is the for the ? we have a half dozen legitimate options.

Interesting move. I wouldn't have had the balls to make it. KW clearly does.

Corlose 15
12-23-2006, 02:49 PM
:?: I'm not really sure what to think about this trade. Danks is supposed to be a stud and all the young arms they have stockpiled has me excited but I remember all to well the void that was the 5th starter spot from 01-04.

I'd just like to pick Kenny's brain and see what he's thinking because he's got me a little confused. Something to keep in mind is the fact that he was the minor league scouting director ( or something like that) for a few years before he became GM so I'm sure he has an eye for talent.

jabrch
12-23-2006, 02:49 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Our team is in rebuilding mode....

That's completely ridiculous.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 02:51 PM
That's completely ridiculous.

A great deal of this thread is.

I thank the folks who have seen Danks pitch for their reports and those posting tidbits found online.

Corlose 15
12-23-2006, 02:51 PM
This was just in this weeks USA today about the Rangers System:

Danks is probably the finest pitching prospect the Rangers have had since Kevin Brown and Bobby Witt. He has 90-92 mph fastball, a dazzling curve and a solid change up. Danks, 21, went 1-4 with a 7.15 ERA for Double A frisco in April but went 2-0 3.32 in May and 2-0 2.16 in June when he was promoted to AAA Oklahoma. Then he got erratic finishing with a 4-5 record and 4.33 ERA. Overall he has 154K in 140 innings, the most in the Rangers system. He has a career K rate of more than 1/inning.

Nick Masset was not on the list of top5 prospects, but had a stellar performance for Venados de Matzatlan of the Mexican Pac league. Masset throws 95mph with a sharp slider aqmd good curveball, had a2.61 ERA with 22K's in 20 2/3 innings in winter ball. He has 4.15 ERA in 8 games for the Rangers.

It would seem then that Masset slides into the last spot in the bullpen and Haeger, Floyd, etc duke it out for the 5th starter spot.

So then the bullpen would be Masset, Sisco, Aardsma, Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks. Thats a lot of talent in the BP.

oeo
12-23-2006, 02:51 PM
We have young, talented pitchers to fill the 5th rotation spot. You know who the Twins are looking at? Sidney Ponson. :o:

oeo
12-23-2006, 02:53 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Our team is in rebuilding mode....

Yep, this guy knows what's up...

:rolleyes:

Are you sure you know the definition of rebuilding?

MrX
12-23-2006, 02:53 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Our team is in rebuilding mode....
Rebuilding mode would be trading everyone.

Williams is gambling on the rotation being more 05 and less 06 and the bullpen improving.

Grzegorz
12-23-2006, 02:53 PM
Danks has a higher ceiling than Brandon.

I believe Danks was rated higher than McCarthy; let's see what happens when the rubber hits the road.

It will be quite a contest to see who takes the fifth spot in the rotation.

batmanZoSo
12-23-2006, 02:54 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Our team is in rebuilding mode....

God, give me strength...

Slats
12-23-2006, 02:54 PM
That's completely ridiculous.

As ridiculous as trading (in a market where mid-level pitchers are getting record contracts) two of our top pitchers for prospects. No, unless something else big happens... our team has given up on 2007.

MrX
12-23-2006, 02:55 PM
So then the bullpen would be Masset, Sisco, Aardsma, Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks. Thats a lot of talent in the BP.
If Cooper can improve their control that bullpen is going to be a nightmare, the good kind, not the kind last years was.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 02:56 PM
I love this trade for how it sets us up for the coming years.

For 2007 this looks like a downstep. Until about 10AM this morning everyone on site seemed convinced that Brandon McCarthy was going to be a high-level MLB pitcher this season. Now that he's been traded and become an overrated ticking injury time bomb that's great for us getting away from the disaster he's sure to be, but who do you really feel can give us a decent season in the #5 spot? Floyd seems to be a severe longshot in need of some more growth time and training. Haeger could be okay, but I don't know if anyone would be happy with that. Danks is a year away. Same with Gio.

This trade removes a guy who the general consensus was that he would give us an above-average year this year. We don't have anyone who I think we can say that about. For the future, this trade is awesome. Danks has an incredible ceiling, higher than McCarthy's could ever be. But I don't see how anyone can say this doesn't weaken us for 2007.

Britt Burns
12-23-2006, 02:57 PM
The more I think about it I like this deal, almost despite myself...Danks has more potential than McCarthy, and is a lefty. Masset is a flamethrower and could be a great arm out of the pen very shortly. I think the world of McCarthy, but his so-so '06 has to make you wonder, and as has been pointed out his mechanics do look like they might cause arm problems down the line.

And for everyone panicking about the #5 slot, I seriously doubt KW is done dealing. Danks alone could bring a lot in return-maybe for a CF (the D-Rays come into mind) and a starter with a hefty salary in the last year of his contract. We will see...

ND_Sox_Fan
12-23-2006, 02:58 PM
So then the bullpen would be Masset, Sisco, Aardsma, Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks. Thats a lot of talent in the BP.

That's a lot of gas in the pen - hopefully with some improved control. Masset at 95 mph is the soft-thrower.

lumpyspun
12-23-2006, 03:00 PM
I can't believe we give up a guy with a catchy six syllable name that shortens to the beloved "Fingernails on a blackboard" for two ordinary sounding names with little or no chance to make into catchy nicknames...Danks and Masset....boooring.

I await the day we hear of major surgery for McCarthy--and hope it never happens--but he always struck me as a ticking time bomb in that respect. I wish him the best regardless.

irregardless...

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:01 PM
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=381&p=9&c=12&yr=2006&nid=287&lnid=287&rc=4&pid=49

For what it is worth, here's what Scout.com thinks of Danks. Of the Minor League pitching prospects, in all of the minors, they have him ranked #6, behind only Hughes, Sowers, Pelfrey, Bailey and Sanchez. He's the #2 rated LH SP in MiLB (Gio is #3).

Masset is another guy who brings it over 95. He's got nasty stuff. Brandon projects to eventually be a #3, maybe a #2. Masset could easily be a top bullpen guy and Danks projects to about a #2 starter.

Great deal? Not at this point. Neither side robbed the other. But we did just get a top tier SP prospect and a strong reliever for Brandon. I'll give KW the benefit of the doubt - he and the management team has scouted these guys much more than any of us have.

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 03:03 PM
I can't believe we give up a guy with a catchy three syllable name that shortens to the beloved "Fingernails on a blackboard" for two ordinary sounding names with little or no chance to make into catchy nicknames...Danks and Masset....boooring.:rolleyes: :tongue: :wink:

DeadMoney
12-23-2006, 03:03 PM
Okay, my take after dwelling on this for a few minutes.

You don't need to be old or established to win. See: Twins, '06. And what Kenny has done is he's modeled us after the Twins. Over the past 5 years they have had replacement after replacement come up and help them win and they have always been 'in it'. This is our way of doing this. Stock up as much young talent as possible, with the same core, and just realize that they will produce (I hope). We now have a ton of young talent and just as the Twins do every year, we have players that we want. Not that we have to use because there's no one else (ech ehm, Cubs), but players that KW wants. It's a process and '07 may not go well because it's turned into a giant crap-shoot now, but by doing this, I see the Sox winning another WS before 2010, and since WS are so hard to win, I'll take that.

SoXPriDe33
12-23-2006, 03:05 PM
I'm starting to like this trade a little bit more and more. I know there is now no legit 5th starter but with all the guys KW has acquired and the guys in the farm system, you have to think that one of them can step up and show something and be a decent option in the 5th spot.

That is just for next year but these trades make the future extremely bright and I'm real excited to see all these guys get a chance to show what they have on the big stage.

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:06 PM
No, unless something else big happens... our team has given up on 2007.

That's completely ridiculous.

SouthSideLove
12-23-2006, 03:07 PM
I certainly think posters at WSI overrated McCarthy. I'm surprised that Texas thought so much of him.

You all must be in loser denial, because a comment like this connotes your apprehension to blame Kenny Williams for his dismal, if not, awful offseason. Let's face it Soxfans, Kenny Williams is screwing our team, and in a major way. I didn't see any point in the Garcia/Floyd trade. The only take-a-way from that deal is the hope that Gio Gonzales becomes what he is expected to become. Gload for Sisco solidifies the bullpen and gets Roos more PT with the Royals (not Earth shattering, but an okay/aceptable trade). THIS deal, however, is a blasphemous.

I've been hearing an awful lot about rebuilding lately, and I don't believe it for a second. But if Kenny wants to rebuild for the future, trading away McCarthy is not the way to go. This kid is going to develop into something special someday. He's got good control that will only get better in time, a phenomenal hook, and a slightly above average fastball. This kid, if given more time with Coop, could have turned out to be our ace 4-5 years down the road. And now, we have depleted in depth with our rotation, and now must rely even more on a shaky bullpen from last, with only minimal upgrades. KW, I have trusted you before, I think you are a shrewed GM, but what sense does this make???

Chisox003
12-23-2006, 03:07 PM
he and the management team has scouted these guys much more than any of us have.
Now if we can just get that through the heads of 95% of this site.....

Edit: Like this ass above me. Give me a break.

White Sox Randy
12-23-2006, 03:08 PM
The Chicago White Sox have just received FDA approval to clone human beings ! The first human to be cloned will be pitching coach Don Cooper.

The White Sox will be trying something never before done....winning a World Series with no pitcher on their staff having more than 2 years Major League experience.

SoxxoS
12-23-2006, 03:09 PM
Maybe KW is thinking ahead, getting a big time LEFT HANDED pitching prospect (definitely do not grow on trees)...if Buerhle does not return to form or he leaves in free agency. Remember, we dont have any other LH in the rotation other than him..and you cant go 5 righties...

In KW we trust.

He has spoke awfully highly on BMAC before...and his opinion has changed. His K - Rate has dropped considerably in the majors, a definite cause for concern.

I am in favor of this trade.

batmanZoSo
12-23-2006, 03:09 PM
I love this trade for how it sets us up for the coming years.

For 2007 this looks like a downstep. Until about 10AM this morning everyone on site seemed convinced that Brandon McCarthy was going to be a high-level MLB pitcher this season. Now that he's been traded and become an overrated ticking injury time bomb that's great for us getting away from the disaster he's sure to be, but who do you really feel can give us a decent season in the #5 spot? Floyd seems to be a severe longshot in need of some more growth time and training. Haeger could be okay, but I don't know if anyone would be happy with that. Danks is a year away. Same with Gio.

This trade removes a guy who the general consensus was that he would give us an above-average year this year. We don't have anyone who I think we can say that about. For the future, this trade is awesome. Danks has an incredible ceiling, higher than McCarthy's could ever be. But I don't see how anyone can say this doesn't weaken us for 2007.

Agreed. I also don't see how anyone can say what the final 25-man roster will be in 2007 either, so that's irrelevant right now.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:10 PM
Now if we can just get that through the heads of 95% of this site.....

Edit: Like this ass above me. Give me a break.

Apparently you're not shrewEd.

cws05champ
12-23-2006, 03:11 PM
I wonder how Broadway, Phillips and Liotta feel right about now?

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:12 PM
I'm starting to like this trade a little bit more and more. I know there is now no legit 5th starter but with all the guys KW has acquired and the guys in the farm system, you have to think that one of them can step up and show something and be a decent option in the 5th spot.
That worked so well for the bullpen last year, it's bound to be a success this year!

DeadMoney
12-23-2006, 03:12 PM
You all must be in loser denial, because a comment like this connotes your apprehension to blame Kenny Williams for his dismal, if not, awful offseason. Let's face it Soxfans, Kenny Williams is screwing our team, and in a major way. I didn't see any point in the Garcia/Floyd trade. The only take-a-way from that deal is the hope that Gio Gonzales becomes what he is expected to become. Gload for Sisco solidifies the bullpen and gets Roos more PT with the Royals (not Earth shattering, but an okay/aceptable trade). THIS deal, however, is a blasphemous.

I've been hearing an awful lot about rebuilding lately, and I don't believe it for a second. But if Kenny wants to rebuild for the future, trading away McCarthy is not the way to go. This kid is going to develop into something special someday. He's got good control that will only get better in time, a phenomenal hook, and a slightly above average fastball. This kid, if given more time with Coop, could have turned out to be our ace 4-5 years down the road. And now, we have depleted in depth with our rotation, and now must rely even more on a shaky bullpen from last, with only minimal upgrades. KW, I have trusted you before, I think you are a shrewed GM, but what sense does this make???

I'm sorry, but I don't think that highly of McCarthy. What I saw was a potential SOLID #3 or possibly #2 starter some day, not an ace. You want to look for an ace, look at Verlander or Liriano - they will be aces (if Liriano's problems get fixed). McCarthy was not even close to as dominating and as 'present' as those guys on the hill. In our two deals, we got a possible #1 ACE in Danks. That's what he is, and that's hopefully what he'll become. In Floyd, we got what McCarthy would've probably been, or maybe a little higher as a solid #2. Don't get me wrong, I liked McCarthy and I'm not saying I like the prospect of 2007 right now, but down the road, people will understand. The giant '?' around 2007 is scary right now, and this has made it worse, but this makes the future MUCH brighter. Let me say one thing though, we did not get ripped off in this deal. Not even close, but at the same time, it's scary to think about how 2007 will be seen more as a roll of the dice now.

SouthSideLove
12-23-2006, 03:15 PM
Maybe so. This may be good for us down the road, but at the end of 2006, we had a blueprint for something great again in 2007. I simply think KW is overestimating the talent he is getting for what we are giving up.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:15 PM
Agreed. I also don't see how anyone can say what the final 25-man roster will be in 2007 either, so that's irrelevant right now.
Okay, I'll rephrase it for you.

If this trade ends up with Floyd, Haegar, Broadway, Gonzalez, Tracey, or anyone else currently in the organization as the #5 starter I don't see how this doesn't weaken us for 2007. Better?

Xx i am error xX
12-23-2006, 03:15 PM
I just want the season to start.

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 03:16 PM
You all must be in loser denial, because a comment like this connotes your apprehension to blame Kenny Williams for his dismal, if not, awful offseason. Let's face it Soxfans, Kenny Williams is screwing our team, and in a major way. I didn't see any point in the Garcia/Floyd trade. The only take-a-way from that deal is the hope that Gio Gonzales becomes what he is expected to become. Gload for Sisco solidifies the bullpen and gets Roos more PT with the Royals (not Earth shattering, but an okay/aceptable trade). THIS deal, however, is a blasphemous.

I've been hearing an awful lot about rebuilding lately, and I don't believe it for a second. But if Kenny wants to rebuild for the future, trading away McCarthy is not the way to go. This kid is going to develop into something special someday. He's got good control that will only get better in time, a phenomenal hook, and a slightly above average fastball. This kid, if given more time with Coop, could have turned out to be our ace 4-5 years down the road. And now, we have depleted in depth with our rotation, and now must rely even more on a shaky bullpen from last, with only minimal upgrades. KW, I have trusted you before, I think you are a shrewed GM, but what sense does this make???This is a bit too dramatic. Garcia and McCarthy are not franchise pitchers. Nobody here knows how the new guys will do. They could quite possibly do just fine. Pitching wins championships, and 2006 proved that. I dont mind making moves for pitching. I am more than willing to give these new arms a chance.

oeo
12-23-2006, 03:16 PM
Maybe so. This may be good for us down the road, but at the end of 2006, we had a blueprint for something great again in 2007. I simply think KW is overestimating the talent he is getting for what we are giving up.

Or maybe you're overestimating the talent we gave up?

EMachine10
12-23-2006, 03:17 PM
Phillips wasn't much of a prospect until his nice showing this year in Charlotte. Liotta had some problems this year. Both Broadway and McColluch (sp) were more safe route draft picks, whose ceilings are not as high as Danks. Danks ceiling is higher than McCarthy's. Brandon hasn't shown me that he will be an ace. There's nothing to say that KW is done dealing and maybe we find a 5th starter elsewhere.

oeo
12-23-2006, 03:17 PM
This is a bit too dramatic. Garcia and McCarthy are not franchise pitchers. Nobody here knows how the new guys will do. They could quite possibly do just fine. Pitching wins championships, and 2006 proved that. I dont mind making moves for pitching. I am more than willing to give these new arms a chance.

Maybe you meant 2005, but 2006 didn't prove that at all. The Cardinals had terrible pitching, that just happened to get hot at the right time, and won a championship.

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:17 PM
You all must be in loser denial

Loser denial?


because a comment like this connotes your apprehension to blame Kenny Williams for his dismal, if not, awful offseason.

There is no way to possibly draw that conclusion at this point in time. That's purely speculation with no known facts to back it up.

Let's face it Soxfans, Kenny Williams is screwing our team, and in a major way.

That's completely ridiculous. Did you just start following baseball in September of 2005?

I didn't see any point in the Garcia/Floyd trade.

Then you don't understand the economics of the game, and the value that having one of the top 10 SP prospects in all of baseball can bring to a team.


THIS deal, however, is a blasphemous.

Blashpemous? Do you know anything about Danks or Masset?

I've been hearing an awful lot about rebuilding lately

Not from KW or anyone on this team.

This kid, if given more time with Coop, could have turned out to be our ace 4-5 years down the road. [/qutote]

That's not what anyone projects from him. He's a mid rotation guy at best.

[quote=SouthSideLove;1446826]And now, we have depleted in depth with our rotation

Not really - Danks is either ready, or just about ready. Just for your information, Danks is the #2 rated Minor League LH SP, and the #6 SP overall. (Gio is #3 LH and #9 overall)

and now must rely even more on a shaky bullpen from last, with only minimal upgrades.

That's nonsense.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:18 PM
Maybe so. This may be good for us down the road, but at the end of 2006, we had a blueprint for something great again in 2007. I simply think KW is overestimating the talent he is getting for what we are giving up.

But really, how much has that blueprint changed? At the end of 2006, the 2007 rotation was projected to see Garcia leaving replaced by a young, unproven McCarthy. The only thing that has changed is the name of the young, unproven arm replacing Garcia.

Is it more of a question mark now? Yes. No one is disputing that. But there is a lot of talent competing for that 5th spot. Anyone saying anything about rebuilding is fairly clueless, IMO.

batmanZoSo
12-23-2006, 03:18 PM
Okay, I'll rephrase it for you.

If this trade ends up with Floyd, Haegar, Broadway, Gonzalez, Tracey, or anyone else currently in the organization as the #5 starter I don't see how this doesn't weaken us for 2007. Better?

We saw how far having 5 "legit" starters and a weak bullpen got us in '06. The important thing is the bullpen looks a lot stronger than it did in '06 and our success hinges on its performance more than anything else--far more than the performance of any of the aforementioned in the 5th spot.

SouthSideLove
12-23-2006, 03:18 PM
Or maybe you're overestimating the talent we gave up?

Sorry, you can't argue with Garica's 17-9 in 2006. Even if they were ugly wins...

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 03:19 PM
Maybe you meant 2005, but 2006 didn't prove that at all. The Cardinals had terrible pitching, that just happened to get hot at the right time, and won a championship.No I meant from the Sox perspective. Our great pitching won it in 2005 and kept us out in 2006. I agree about the Cardinals.

TaylorStSox
12-23-2006, 03:19 PM
I love this trade. McCarthy's overated. We traded one good prospect for 2. It makes all the sense in the world.

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:22 PM
Sorry, you can't argue with Garica's 17-9 in 2006. Even if they were ugly wins...

4.5 ERA and .267 opp avg on a guy in his walk year? And we got a top 10 ranked SP (#3 ranked LHP) for him AND Floyd as well.

I am a fan of Freddy's - but we got decent value for him. We were clearly not going to pay the price that he would command in this market, so we traded him for what KW felt was the best package.

It's amazing how so many people here know so much more than Kenny. You guys ought to send your resume to JR. Surely you could do a better job.

Daver
12-23-2006, 03:24 PM
I love this trade. McCarthy's overated. We traded one good prospect for 2. It makes all the sense in the world.

Actually 3.

Jacob Rasner will not vie for a roster spot anytime soon, but he was a heavily scouted HS prospect when the Rangers drafted him.

sox230
12-23-2006, 03:25 PM
In a way, Vazquez has ruined everything. If we didn't acquire him, Brandon would have been in the rotation last year, we would have seen how good he was, we never would have traded him, and chris young would have challenged anderson for the CF spot. What I don't understand is why the Sox are still acting like a middle/small market team, when they have the money to keep established talent!!!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

SouthSide_HitMen
12-23-2006, 03:25 PM
Well, from the time when the 2006 season ended until now, our projected starting rotation has not really changed that much. And in the mean time, we've picked up a stockpile of young, talented, cheap arms. Some would argue that it's a damn good strategy. But only time will tell.

I agree. It will take a few years to judge these two deals.

Anyone who thinks Williams is making any major signings/moves is deluding themselves, in my opinion. He came right out and told us that acquiring young arms was his goal. He has done that. Many here are not happy with this new direction, and I think that's why they keep insisting "Kenny's not done yet," etc. But don't get your hopes up - I still say what you see now with the Sox is what you're gonna get come April.

I will also add the playoff rosters for 2007 are not locked on December 23, 2006. We are still over two months away from Spring Training. I do not think Kenny Williams is finished at this point and I do think he is serious about contending in 2007.

Danks is 21 years old, and still will be on opening day. He couldn't crack the Rangers rotation because he's barely only enough to drink, and the Rangers didn't want to rush him.

This guy is a stud. Kenny knows his minor league players. I'm shocked he didn't over-value his 'major league' player.

From what I have read, he has a bigger upside than McCarthy. I pegged McCarthy as a #4 or #5 if he could stay healthy. I remember Mayor Daley bashing Ozzie for throwing "that kid" out to the wolves in Arlington.

Disagree. I haven't seen Danks pitch, but everything I've been able to dig up on him says he's potentially a #1 or #2 starter. I don't believe McCarthy has that high of a ceiling. McCarthy is a year farther along in his development, which is why Texas made this deal.

Thank you and others here who are not jumping to rash conclusions. The White Sox are not giving up on 2007. If anyone thinks Kenny Williams is finished in his work for 2007, they are crazy.

I will await the White Sox press conference for Kenny's thoughts on the deal (or an interview published after Christmas since he may not be available due to Christmas).

Kenny Williams knows more about these players than any of us. The White Sox lost one spot in the rotation (to date - things can happen between now and April) with these two moves and they have obtained three solid young pitchers in return (plus Sisco in the Gload deal). Let us wait until March before jumping on Kenny Williams. People thought he was writing off 2005 after dealing Carlos Lee for Podsednik and Vizcaino but he had several additional moves up his sleeve.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:25 PM
We saw how far having 5 "legit" starters and a weak bullpen got us in '06. The important thing is the bullpen looks a lot stronger than it did in '06 and our success hinges on its performance more than anything else--far more than the performance of any of the aforementioned in the 5th spot.
If all 5 of those starters had been legit it would have gotten us as far as we needed to go. Buehrle imploded, Garland was **** the first two months. Vazquez is Vazquez. Now if your assumption is that those first two guys, along with Contreras won't return to form, then it won't matter who the #5 guy is. But if you get 32 starts of 6+ ERA out of that 5 spot, you better hope the pen is able to handle pitching 6 innings every fifth day, along with praying for Vazquez to improve and not need to be bailed out of the 5th every other start.

And really, the bullpen looks no better in terms of expectations than the 2006 bullpen looked in our eyes at this time last year. We figured Jenks, Politte, Cotts was a solid anchor, and hoped the other three would do well. Now we expect Jenks, MacDougal and Thornton to do well, and expect someone out of Floyd, Aardsma, Sisco, Massett, Haeger to step in and fill the other three spots. Sounds just as iffy but with faster pitches.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-23-2006, 03:27 PM
This is my first time hearing this, and I don't know much about the guys we got in return. I can't believe this happened though. Is this a steal or did we get screwed?

California Sox
12-23-2006, 03:28 PM
Worst trade since giving up Young. I completely do not believe in Danks at all. Horrible. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry:

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:30 PM
Worst trade since giving up Young. I completely do not believe in Danks at all. Horrible. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry:

Can you explain why? Have you seen him pitch a lot and do not like his mechanics? Is his delivery flawed? Does he not have enough plus pitches?

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:30 PM
What I don't understand is why the Sox are still acting like a middle/small market team, when they have the money to keep established talent!!!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

They aren't. They are acting like a team that is capable of planning to win both today, and tomorrow. That's awesome that we have a team capable of doing that.

When this farm system gets ranked this year, after the moves, I'd have to imagine this will be a top 5 farm system in terms of pitching, and our major league squad will have 4 proven veteran starters and then I just hope a 5th starter materializes in the spring from all the options.

And KW is not done.

getonbckthr
12-23-2006, 03:31 PM
My problem here is according to Kenny Brandon was "Untouchable." I have to ask now why didn't we move him last July when we could have gotten anything we wanted (A. Jones)? I have a feeling something else is on the horizon. With Soxfest tickets going on sale soon this isn't a deal that screams come out we are ready for 07. I grade this trade wth a "I" for incomplete.

MrX
12-23-2006, 03:32 PM
Worst trade since giving up Young. I completely do not believe in Danks at all. Horrible. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry:
I agree, I have full faith in McCarthy and his 1/3 of a season worth of starts.

Chisox003
12-23-2006, 03:33 PM
Gotta love those FOBB. Classy as always. :rolleyes:

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2006, 03:34 PM
Barry Zito will be signed by the White Sox within two weeks...

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:34 PM
Worst trade since giving up Young. I completely do not believe in Danks at all. Horrible. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry:

What do you know that all of the scouts in MLB don't? Scouts seem to project Danks as a front of the rotation starter.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1446867

Jjav829
12-23-2006, 03:34 PM
Wow. My first reaction when I saw this on Rotoworld was "You're ****tin' me..." I'm sure most others had this reaction. I think a large part of the disappointment behind this trade is that we had heard McCarthy built up for a long time and everyone was excited to finally see what he could do. But let's be real here. None of us knows what the future holds for Danks or McCarthy. McCarthy is more MLB-ready, but Danks probably has the higher upside. And we added in a guy who Kenny really loves in Masset.

McCarthy was very highly hyped-up by the Sox. And don't get me wrong, I think he was worthy of a certain amount of that hype. But this is what good organizations do. Overhype prospects and then trade them for more than they are worth. Only time will tell, but that may have been what the Sox did with this trade.

That said, I'm really disappointed to see McCarthy go. He had become one of my favorite Sox players and I was really excited to see him finally get a chance this year. I guess I'll still get to see that, just with McCarthy in a Rangers uniform.

Where this leaves us for 07, we'll have to wait and see. Right now we are in position we were in a few years ago in having no reliable 5th starter. Barring some unforeseen acquisition of a proven starter (doesn't seem likely to me given what KW has said and done this offseason), we'll be heading into the 07 season hoping one of the young starters steps up and fills that spot.

At this point, I have to wonder if KW is even done. I mean if some team came calling for Buehrle with a similar package, would KW listen? I mean this is one hell of a bold move by him. It's a move that we'll look back on in 5 years and either praise KW or be calling for his head.

We'll see. There's no point in overreacting to the trade. Talent-wise, it's certainly a good trade for KW. Whether the trade puts us in the best position possible for 07 is another question, but then again, that doesn't seem to be KW's motive here.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:35 PM
complete loss of sanity...
It takes a lot of fortitude to actually admit to being interested in stats here on WSI, the mighty fortress against any attempts to sully baseball with any sort of statistical analysis. Obviously SH21 couldn't handle it. I hope you all are happy :wink:

edit: wow, that got ****housed FAST!

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:37 PM
Talent-wise, it's certainly a good trade for KW. Whether the trade puts us in the best position possible for 07 is another question, but then again

I think that explains it VERY well. And until we get at least to the middle of Spring Training, I don't see how we can draw a negative conclusion on this deal.

TaylorStSox
12-23-2006, 03:38 PM
Wow. My first reaction when I saw this on Rotoworld was "You're ****tin' me..." I'm sure most others had this reaction. I think a large part of the disappointment behind this trade is that we had heard McCarthy built up for a long time and everyone was excited to finally see what he could do. But let's be real here. None of us knows what the future holds for Danks or McCarthy. McCarthy is more MLB-ready, but Danks probably has the higher upside. And we added in a guy who Kenny really loves in Masset.

McCarthy was very highly hyped-up by the Sox. And don't get me wrong, I think he was worthy of a certain amount of that hype. But this is what good organizations do. Overhype prospects and then trade them for more than they are worth. Only time will tell, but that may have been what the Sox did with this trade.

That said, I'm really disappointed to see McCarthy go. He had become one of my favorite Sox players and I was really excited to see him finally get a chance this year. I guess I'll still get to see that, just with McCarthy in a Rangers uniform.

Where this leaves us for 07, we'll have to wait and see. Right now we are in position we were in a few years ago in having no reliable 5th starter. Barring some unforeseen acquisition of a proven starter (doesn't seem likely to me given what KW has said and done this offseason), we'll be heading into the 07 season hoping one of the young starters steps up and fills that spot.

At this point, I have to wonder if KW is even done. I mean if some team came calling for Buehrle with a similar package, would KW listen? I mean this is one hell of a bold move by him. It's a move that we'll look back on in 5 years and either praise KW or be calling for his head.

We'll see. There's no point in overreacting to the trade. Talent-wise, it's certainly a good trade for KW. Whether the trade puts us in the best position possible for 07 is another question, but then again, that doesn't seem to be KW's motive here.


Excellent post! Cheers! :gulp:

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:40 PM
I think that explains it VERY well. And until we get at least to the middle of Spring Training, I don't see how we can draw a negative conclusion on this deal.

Exactly. Unlike many around here, I do not see the key to 2007 being the #5 spot in the rotation. I see it being the 1-2-3 guys perform like 1-2-3 guys and the bullpen being solid.

People sem to forget that in 2005, the #5 pitcher was not exactly any great shakes for most of the year. Most everyone was calling for Contreras' head as he pitched like **** for half a season. But even with him pitching poorly, that team ran out to a HUGE divisional lead. With a strong top of the rotation and lock-down bullpen, you can overcome a question mark in the #5 spot. And let's not forget that there is a helluva lot of talent competing for that #5 spot.

oeo
12-23-2006, 03:41 PM
In a way, Vazquez has ruined everything. If we didn't acquire him, Brandon would have been in the rotation last year, we would have seen how good he was, we never would have traded him, and chris young would have challenged anderson for the CF spot. What I don't understand is why the Sox are still acting like a middle/small market team, when they have the money to keep established talent!!!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

They have a $100 million (or close to it) payroll...that doesn't sound like a middle/small market team to me...

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2006, 03:42 PM
Here's a question I have after the Freddy Garcia and this trade, are Jim Thome and Jermaine Dye on their way out as well? Thome only has 2-3 years left. Dye has probably has 3-4 years left. Our rotation is being built for 2008 and beyond.

Or, is KW hoping for Floyd, Gonzalez, Danks, and Masset being ready for the 2007 season?

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:42 PM
It takes a lot of fortitude to actually admit to being interested in stats here on WSI, the mighty fortress against any attempts to sully baseball with any sort of statistical analysis.

Nobody has a problem with "statistical analysis". It is baseball ignorance that people have a problem with. Statistics out of context tell you absolutely nothing. Too many people who claim to believe in statisical analysis, just spit out poo based on one or two numbers, and not the context of the game and what those numbers actually represent.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-23-2006, 03:43 PM
It takes a lot of fortitude to actually admit to being interested in stats here on WSI, the mighty fortress against any attempts to sully baseball with any sort of statistical analysis. Obviously SH21 couldn't handle it. I hope you all are happy :wink:

edit: wow, that got ****housed FAST!

I didn't see any statistical analysis in his final few posts which were nuked. Some language violations but no statistics. :wink:

Billy Beane is obviously superior to Kenny Williams and he had the stats to prove it.

:gulp:

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2006, 03:44 PM
They have a $100 million (or close to it) payroll...that doesn't sound like a middle/small market team to me...

I don't think so. I think we are at 80-85 after th Garcia trade.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:44 PM
Here's a question I have after the Freddy Garcia and this trade, are Jim Thome and Jermaine Dye on their way out as well? Thome only has 2-3 years left. Dye has probably has 3-4 years left. Our rotation is being built for 2008 and beyond.



Maybe you'll actually answer his question if you think this: how much has our projected 2007 rotation changed from October 31, 2006 to today?

California Sox
12-23-2006, 03:44 PM
Here's what I don't like about Danks: A lot of hype, mediocre results. He's a guy who throws in the 90s but doesn't really pitch off his fastball. He's a change up, curveball guy who's never really dominated at any level. Meanwhile, McCarthy pitches off the fastball and has dominated at every level he's ever been at, including the majors. This trade makes no sense to me. We're acquiring volume here and giving up quality and it's not even saving us any money. If it was the three of them for Garland or Buerhle I might be able to fathom it, but McCarthy was the future ace of the rotation.

I guess KW likes Masset. Seems like another Aardsma. Decent arm but little command. The third guy is a long-term project.

Looking at the Sox prospects of the last few years there were only three untouchables as far as I was conerned: Young, McCarthy, and Sweeney. Now two of the three are gone and as far as I'm concerned we haven't gotten a single impact player from the deals.

jabrch
12-23-2006, 03:45 PM
Here's a question I have after the Freddy Garcia and this trade, are Jim Thome and Jermaine Dye on their way out as well? Thome only has 2-3 years left. Dye has probably has 3-4 years left. Our rotation is being built for 2008 and beyond.

Dye will depend on how Sweeney, BA, Owens and Fields (pending Crede) do. Thome, when his contract approaches the end, will depend on how he is performing and what the options are out there.

KW doesn't get attached to players like fans do. For a GM, that's a good quality.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:45 PM
I don't think so. I think we are at 80-85 after th Garcia trade.

You're wrong.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:46 PM
Exactly. Unlike many around here, I do not see the key to 2007 being the #5 spot in the rotation. I see it being the 1-2-3 guys perform like 1-2-3 guys and the bullpen being solid.

People sem to forget that in 2005, the #5 pitcher was not exactly any great shakes for most of the year. Most everyone was calling for Contreras' head as he pitched like **** for half a season. But even with him pitching poorly, that team ran out to a HUGE divisional lead. With a strong top of the rotation and lock-down bullpen, you can overcome a question mark in the #5 spot. And let's not forget that there is a helluva lot of talent competing for that #5 spot.
Ummm...not quite.

In 2005 Jose had a 4.26 ERA for the first half of the season, with an ERA under 4 for the first two months of the season.. Sure it looks high compared to the 2.96 he put up in the second half, but that ERA would have been great compared to our staff last year. In 2005, the #5 spot of Duque/McCarthy put up a 4.75 ERA. That would have been better than 2 of 5 of our starters last year.

cbotnyse
12-23-2006, 03:46 PM
Here's what I don't like about Danks: A lot of hype, mediocre results. He's a guy who throws in the 90s but doesn't really pitch off his fastball. He's a change up, curveball guy who's never really dominated at any level. Meanwhile, McCarthy pitches off the fastball and has dominated at every level he's ever been at, including the majors. This trade makes no sense to me. We're acquiring volume here and giving up quality and it's not even saving us any money. If it was the three of them for Garland or Buerhle I might be able to fathom it, but McCarthy was the future ace of the rotation.

I guess KW likes Masset. Seems like another Aardsma. Decent arm but little command. The third guy is a long-term project.

Looking at the Sox prospects of the last few years there were only three untouchables as far as I was conerned: Young, McCarthy, and Sweeney. Now two of the three are gone and as far as I'm concerned we haven't gotten a single impact player from the deals.McCarthy was far from dominant, IMHO of course.

MrX
12-23-2006, 03:47 PM
McCarthy pitches off the fastball and has dominated at every level he's ever been at, including the majors.
When did he become Cy McCarthy? He had some nice starts but to say he dominated is ridiculous.

gr8mexico
12-23-2006, 03:47 PM
Well atleast someone think this was a good trade for us http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
No one thought Kenny Williams would trade McCarthy, but it looks like he got an offer he couldn't refuse. You have to admire that he has a plan and he's sticking to it.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:47 PM
Here's what I don't like about Danks: A lot of hype, mediocre results. He's a guy who throws in the 90s but doesn't really pitch off his fastball. He's a change up, curveball guy who's never really dominated at any level. Meanwhile, McCarthy pitches off the fastball and has dominated at every level he's ever been at, including the majors. This trade makes no sense to me. We're acquiring volume here and giving up quality and it's not even saving us any money. If it was the three of them for Garland or Buerhle I might be able to fathom it, but McCarthy was the future ace of the rotation.



How can you possibly say McCarthy dominated MLB hitters? He had 2 good months as a starter in 2005. Before that, he got rocked. Afer that, in 2006, he was so-so at best. Saying he has the potential to dominate MLB hitters might make some sense, but so say he has been dominant at the MLB level is incorrect.

As for Danks, every publication I've seen loves the guy. That's as much as I know about him.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-23-2006, 03:48 PM
I don't think so. I think we are at 80-85 after th Garcia trade.

Payroll is up $4 million (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=82418) after the three trades this offseason. McCarthy will earn the MLB minimum so this trade does not alter our payroll (unless Kenny Williams signs / trades for a starter with more than 3 years of MLB experience).

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:49 PM
Nobody has a problem with "statistical analysis". It is baseball ignorance that people have a problem with. Statistics out of context tell you absolutely nothing. Too many people who claim to believe in statisical analysis, just spit out poo based on one or two numbers, and not the context of the game and what those numbers actually represent.

I didn't see any statistical analysis in his final few posts which were nuked. Some language violations but no statistics. :wink:

Billy Beane is obviously superior to Kenny Williams and he had the stats to prove it.

:gulp:
I hoped the half-teal, the wink, and the over-the-top tone would be enough. Next time, I'll be sure to not miss a spot where teal should be.

HomeFish
12-23-2006, 03:50 PM
Phew.

Let me get a little something off my chest that I've been too afraid to say publicly at WSI until now: I think that B-Mac was highly overrated, and not as good as you guys are making him out to be.

All he's shown is a couple of flashes of brilliance every once in a while, mostly in that one start against Boston. But last year, he was nothing but mediocre with a lot more playing time. I don't see him being an effective starter in 2007. I'm not sure he has the stuff to be a long-term effective starter, either.

Now, this trade does leave us with a hole in the rotation. I'm sure that brings up nightmares for many of us who remember the 5th starter problem this team used to have. But the thing that was filling that hole before this trade, it wasn't all that good.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-23-2006, 03:51 PM
I hoped the half-teal, the wink, and the over-the-top tone would be enough. Next time, I'll be sure to not miss a spot where teal should be.

I understood you. I was just piling on. :D:

One more comment - the pitchers we have coming into camp are far better than the Arnie Munoz type dreg we were sending out in the fifth spot a few years ago. Even if Kenny Williams is done with adding pitchers, we will not be sending out pitchers with 10 ERAs or anything close to it. These deals give the White Sox options, very good options, over the next few years.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:52 PM
Ummm...not quite.

In 2005 Jose had a 4.26 ERA for the first half of the season, with an ERA under 4 for the first two months of the season.. Sure it looks high compared to the 2.96 he put up in the second half, but that ERA would have been great compared to our staff last year. In 2005, the #5 spot of Duque/McCarthy put up a 4.75 ERA. That would have been better than 2 of 5 of our starters last year.

My recollection was obviously clouded by his horrible June and July in 2005 (ERA over 5). But I think the point of my post still rings true: our top guys in the rotation pitching like top guys in a pitching rotation are more of a key than the #5 spot.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:52 PM
I understood you. I was just piling on. :D:
:gulp:

I would just like to type, one last time, in memoriam, B-Mac and watch the language filter kick in.

SABRSox
12-23-2006, 03:53 PM
I think this trade signals the end of Mark Buerhle on the South Side after this season.

Sometimes, I think Kenny looked upon this new market for free agents and saw death staring him back in the face. However, maybe he feels there's a window in which he can keep the team competitive and rebuild the minors at the same time, and have those prospects mature to step in when needed, and the Sox never miss a beat. That would be some feat if he could pull it off.

Corlose 15
12-23-2006, 03:53 PM
Phew.

Let me get a little something off my chest that I've been too afraid to say publicly at WSI until now: I think that Fingernails on a blackboard was highly overrated, and not as good as you guys are making him out to be.

All he's shown is a couple of flashes of brilliance every once in a while, mostly in that one start against Boston. But last year, he was nothing but mediocre with a lot more playing time. I don't see him being an effective starter in 2007. I'm not sure he has the stuff to be a long-term effective starter, either.

Now, this trade does leave us with a hole in the rotation. I'm sure that brings up nightmares for many of us who remember the 5th starter problem this team used to have. But the thing that was filling that hole before this trade, it wasn't all that good.

Has WSI gotten you a little gun shy?:D:

whitesoxfan1986
12-23-2006, 03:55 PM
Kenny has to have something else up his sleeve. Maybe he's going to trade Crede for a young, proven starter like Ervin Santana, and Mack and Fields are going to plattoon at 3rd this season. as of right now I expect Floyd, Phillips, and Broadway to duke it out for the 5th spot in ST. I am beginning to believe that Kenny is sacrificing 2007 and maybe 2008 for the future, but if the future is very bright, then I am okay with it. I am a Sox fan for life and nothing is going to change that.

MrX
12-23-2006, 03:55 PM
I think this trade signals the end of Mark Buerhle on the South Side after this season.

Sometimes, I think Kenny looked upon this new market for free agents and saw death staring him back in the face. However, maybe he feels there's a window in which he can keep the team competitive and rebuild the minors at the same time, and have those prospects mature to step in when needed, and the Sox never miss a beat. That would be some feat if he could pull it off.
I agree with that 100%

NonetheLoaiza
12-23-2006, 03:56 PM
Excellant trade. The Sox should be competitive for the next 6 years, instead of going for broke next year. Kenny knows what he's doing.

palehozenychicty
12-23-2006, 03:57 PM
Wow. My first reaction when I saw this on Rotoworld was "You're ****tin' me..." I'm sure most others had this reaction. I think a large part of the disappointment behind this trade is that we had heard McCarthy built up for a long time and everyone was excited to finally see what he could do. But let's be real here. None of us knows what the future holds for Danks or McCarthy. McCarthy is more MLB-ready, but Danks probably has the higher upside. And we added in a guy who Kenny really loves in Masset.

McCarthy was very highly hyped-up by the Sox. And don't get me wrong, I think he was worthy of a certain amount of that hype. But this is what good organizations do. Overhype prospects and then trade them for more than they are worth. Only time will tell, but that may have been what the Sox did with this trade.

That said, I'm really disappointed to see McCarthy go. He had become one of my favorite Sox players and I was really excited to see him finally get a chance this year. I guess I'll still get to see that, just with McCarthy in a Rangers uniform.

Where this leaves us for 07, we'll have to wait and see. Right now we are in position we were in a few years ago in having no reliable 5th starter. Barring some unforeseen acquisition of a proven starter (doesn't seem likely to me given what KW has said and done this offseason), we'll be heading into the 07 season hoping one of the young starters steps up and fills that spot.

At this point, I have to wonder if KW is even done. I mean if some team came calling for Buehrle with a similar package, would KW listen? I mean this is one hell of a bold move by him. It's a move that we'll look back on in 5 years and either praise KW or be calling for his head.

We'll see. There's no point in overreacting to the trade. Talent-wise, it's certainly a good trade for KW. Whether the trade puts us in the best position possible for 07 is another question, but then again, that doesn't seem to be KW's motive here.

My bolded points in your quote are the biggest things, that they got three prospects with very favorable ceilings for one with a solid, immediately more reliable ceiling who is a flyball pitcher, mind you. Nobody has brought this point up, that McCarthy's k/bb ratio and era may take a hit at the BP in Arlington. Danks is insurance if Buehrle does not get a deal. I think that Buehrle will be brought back with a competitive offer if he reports in good shape.
The amount of young pitching talent in the Sox organization is bountiful. Just in this offseason we got these guys:

Sisco, Aardsma, Gonzalez, Floyd, Danks, Masset

for these guys: Garcia, McCarthy, Gload, and Cotts.


It's too early to judge, but all of these guys project to be very very good.
Another bold, visionary move by KW.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 03:57 PM
I think this trade signals the end of Mark Buerhle on the South Side after this season.

Sometimes, I think Kenny looked upon this new market for free agents and saw death staring him back in the face. However, maybe he feels there's a window in which he can keep the team competitive and rebuild the minors at the same time, and have those prospects mature to step in when needed, and the Sox never miss a beat. That would be some feat if he could pull it off.

Agreed. Many MLB executives have been anonymously quoted as saying there will be a huge market correction a couple of years down the line and that a lot of these insane contracts are gonna come back o haunt some of these teams. By most accounts, the young pitching the Sox have picked up this winter will be mostly ready to rock in 2008. As for 2007, the only difference I see in the starting rotation is McCarthy, a young, unproven arm, being replaced by a currently unknown young, unproven arm.

Is that a risk? Sure as hell it is. But you do not build championship teams and winners year in and year out without taking risks.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:57 PM
My recollection was obviously clouded by his horrible June and July in 2005 (ERA over 5). But I think the point of my post still rings true: our top guys in the rotation pitching like top guys in a pitching rotation are more of a key than the #5 spot.
The problem is our top guys, with the exception of Contreras at the end of 05/beginning of 06, are not guys who ever pitch like top guys. We had a collection of very good pitchers who theoretically could give you a solid outing every time they pitched in 2005. We don't need 5 aces, but if our #5 gives us numbers like we got from the #5 spot in the dark years, or like Floyd did in his last major league stint, we would need the top 3-4 guys to suddenly all pitch like aces. If we had 3 Johan's in the rotation it would be one thing. But our guys are mostly good pitchers who will usually win more starts than they lose, but not that many more. Again, look at 2005 for the template. The #5 spot gave us a league average ERA, and league average innings. If we get that, then yes, your theory fits. But if we get 7.29 ERA and just under 5 innings per start (Floyd's 11 starts last year), we're in trouble.

spiffie
12-23-2006, 03:59 PM
Has WSI gotten you a little gun shy?:D:
Apparently its gotten lots of people gun-shy. Last night McCarthy was the future of baseball, and now everyone has flipped on him so fast its amazing. Go back and read the thread after Freddy left and there was barely a word of concern about McCarthy being ready to replace a 17 game winner and 200 inning a year horse. Now he's injury prone and mediocre and a malcontent.

And I'll admit, I'm one of those folks. I think McCarthy will be better this year than anyone we have, but the future seems brighter for Danks than McCarthy's, and by a good margin at that.

Flight #24
12-23-2006, 04:01 PM
Wow. I'm fairly stunned to log on and see this. I really expected anyone else to get dealt, but not Brandon, and in the small chance that he did - to shore up another position. I liked what I'd read about Danks & Masset from the Garland trade rumor, but would never in a million years have expected this.

This is by no means a rebuilding trade, unless Kenny's an idiot. Because McCarthy is the kind of guy you build around, and it's not like he was a year or 2 away from FA. He was a young guy with major league experience who projected to be an excellent middle-of-the-rotation/maybe #2 starter for quite a while and cheaply. So the good news is that this doesn't signal any kind of retrenching on the part of the Sox.

This IMO signals one of 2 things:
1) Kenny's got another move in mind. Whether that's signing Zito (seems unlikely), dealing a couple of these recently acquired prospects for a name like Crawford/ARod/Cabrera that could be a reason to "double up" on pitching prospects.

2) Kenny just likes Danks and/or Masset the same or more than Brandon. This is the most likely scenario, IMO and it's a fairly nerve-wracking one because Brandon as a starter looked solid to very good, so there's not much room for error for KW in his assessment on this one. It's not like the Garcia move where you could say "we had a guy close or the same in ability, and he'd have been gone in a year anyway". Now I don't think KW's an idiot, but neither is he infallible. This is a hugely high-risk move for him and IMO one that could define his career and his eye for talent. What's weird is that it goes against KW's oft-stated mantras of not going through 5th starter roulette and not dealing young pitching. So he must really think he pulled one over on the Rangers. That it's not obvious to anyone else is part of the scary thing.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 04:01 PM
The problem is our top guys, with the exception of Contreras at the end of 05/beginning of 06, are not guys who ever pitch like top guys. We had a collection of very good pitchers who theoretically could give you a solid outing every time they pitched in 2005. We don't need 5 aces, but if our #5 gives us numbers like we got from the #5 spot in the dark years, or like Floyd did in his last major league stint, we would need the top 3-4 guys to suddenly all pitch like aces. If we had 3 Johan's in the rotation it would be one thing. But our guys are mostly good pitchers who will usually win more starts than they lose, but not that many more. Again, look at 2005 for the template. The #5 spot gave us a league average ERA, and league average innings. If we get that, then yes, your theory fits. But if we get 7.29 ERA and just under 5 innings per start (Floyd's 11 starts last year), we're in trouble.

I agree. I think Jose has the potential (and has shown for a calendar year) the ability to be a #1. That's the big key for 2007, IMO. Beyond that, Garland needs o continue to pitch well. The guy who scares me the most is Mark. Guys with his stuff seem to have a difficult time finding it once it's been lost. I hope like hell he returns to the Mark of the past.

I guess another reason why I am not totally up in arms about the #5 spot is the number of guys with great arms that will be competing for it. Maybe I am being naive, but I think it's likely that at least one of those guys will prove to be at least a serviceable #5 next year.

Law11
12-23-2006, 04:03 PM
Unless Brandon develops something other than his curveball he's stil going to get lit up. I like the trade. The only thing that gets me is that in theory we had a chance at Soriano if we gave up McCarthy back in the summer.

Now we give him up for two top prospects.

California Sox
12-23-2006, 04:04 PM
How can you possibly say McCarthy dominated MLB hitters? He had 2 good months as a starter in 2005. Before that, he got rocked. Afer that, in 2006, he was so-so at best. Saying he has the potential to dominate MLB hitters might make some sense, but so say he has been dominant at the MLB level is incorrect.

As for Danks, every publication I've seen loves the guy. That's as much as I know about him.

He dominated in the second half of 2005. (Remember the starts against Boston and Cleveland?) That is dominating major league hitters. Danks hasn't had nearly the success McCarthy had in the majors (even for a brief period) above A ball.

Hey, all the publications loved Scott Ruffcorn too. First round draft picks tend to get the benefit of the doubt before they seriously flame out. I'm concerned that in Floyd and Danks we just gave up major league value for other guys' number 1's whose career arrows weren't exactly pointed up.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-23-2006, 04:05 PM
Who here had McCarthy penciled in as anything higher than #5 in the rotation next summer? Anyone who did is strictly a wishful thinker and not to be taken seriously. The 2007 Sox season won't be broken (or made) by this trade. It's still all about numbers 1 through 3, and to a lesser extent 4 and 5.

Instead this is a swap of young arms with lots of potential. I'll leave it to others to argue over who has MORE potential, but when it comes to DEVELOPING young pitchers, the Chicago White Sox have a far better track record than the Texas Rangers.

That ought to give pause to any young pitcher traded to Texas... or at least any intelligent one.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 04:09 PM
He dominated in the second half of 2005. (Remember the starts against Boston and Cleveland?) That is dominating major league hitters. Danks hasn't had nearly the success McCarthy had in the majors (even for a brief period) above A ball.



I referenced his run of two good months in 2005. In fact, those two months encompassed all of FIVE starts. So, while I feel Brandon has the potential to be a good MLB starter, I do not see how you can argue he has dominated at the MLB level when half of his 10 starts in MLB have sucked.

And you cannot ignore his so-so 2006. That's a full year on which to judge him. While coming out of the bullpen is different than starting, the premise is still the same: get MLB hitters out. He did not prove too good at that last year.

Again, I just think it's going too far to say he is dominating against MLB hitters when basing such a theory off of 5 starts.

I have to admit, I thought he had more than 5 good starts in 2005. I was surprised to see how few starts he actually had in that stretch.

dwalteroo
12-23-2006, 04:10 PM
Again, look at 2005 for the template. The #5 spot gave us a league average ERA, and league average innings. If we get that, then yes, your theory fits. But if we get 7.29 ERA and just under 5 innings per start (Floyd's 11 starts last year), we're in trouble.

Exactly. We have, or rather, HAD, known commodities. Yes, BMac had problems but we knew he could produce. We have no idea with these new guys. I think the Sox have quickly forgotten how good we have it with 6 (now 4) starters. Remember taking out Biddle in the third inning to replace him with Ginter? Yeah. Welcome back.

Ol' No. 2
12-23-2006, 04:10 PM
This is the worst trade since Kenny traded Carlos Lee. (Not sure if teal belongs here or not.):tongue:

QCIASOXFAN
12-23-2006, 04:11 PM
The Holidays just got real crazy. :nuts:

DickAllen72
12-23-2006, 04:11 PM
Excellant trade. The Sox should be competitive for the next 6 years, instead of going for broke next year. Kenny knows what he's doing.

I agree.

Haeger will make a good fifth starter in 2007, Masset completes the bullpen and Danks, Gio, Floyd, etc. give the Sox good SP prospects in the minors.

KW definitely knows what he's doing, and he's not done yet.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 04:11 PM
Exactly. We have, or rather, HAD, known commodities. Yes, Fingernails on a blackboard had problems but we knew he could produce. We have no idea with these new guys. I think the Sox have quickly forgotten how good we have it with 6 (now 4) starters. Remember taking out Biddle in the third inning to replace him with Ginter? Yeah. Welcome back.

How do 5 good starts in 2005 make Brandon a known quantity?

digdagdug23
12-23-2006, 04:14 PM
I agree.

Haeger will make a good fifthe starter in 2007, Masset completes the bullpen and Danks, Gio, Floyd, etc. give the Sox good SP prospects in the minors.

KW definitely knows what he's doing, and he's not done yet.

I agree. I don't see this as a bad thing at all. McCarthy always made me squirm when he walked to the mound, and IIRC a number of others did the same thing.

Besides, we don't know if it was bad or not until they actually put on the uniform and play the game for our team. I will reserve judgement until I see them pitch a few games.

wassagstdu
12-23-2006, 04:18 PM
I'm trying to have faith in William"s strategy, but he looks like the slash and burn tactics of old frantic frank Lane of the 1950's.

What? Would that be the same Frank Lane who turned the Sox from a perennial joke into a contender for a decade by acquiring Nellie Fox, Billy Pierce, Minnie Minoso, Chico Carrasquel, and Sherm Lollar? I'd like to think Williams' recent trades are in the same league with Lane's.

dwalteroo
12-23-2006, 04:21 PM
How do 5 good starts in 2005 make Brandon a known quantity?

Fair enough. But McCarthy is a decent major league pitcher. Decent. I'm not saying he's great. Look, I trust Kenny Williams, but I also know things don't always work out for prospects (Borchard). I hope we have another trade coming.

MrT27
12-23-2006, 04:25 PM
Anyone else anxious for SoxFest to come along to grill KW with questions?

Steelrod
12-23-2006, 04:25 PM
Sorry, but Kenny put a lot of fingers in rings last year, so as far as I'm concerned, he can do no wrong.
Besides, this is a lot of gabbing about a pitcher who was being given a chance to make the number FIVE spot in the rotation. A sure thing, I doubt it!
Can't wait for spring training!!!!!

jabrch
12-23-2006, 04:26 PM
Anyone else anxious for SoxFest to come along to grill KW with questions?

I just hope our fans have more class at SoxFest this year than they have had at some prior seasons.

ilsox7
12-23-2006, 04:26 PM
Fair enough. But McCarthy is a decent major league pitcher. Decent. I'm not saying he's great. Look, I trust Kenny Williams, but I also know things don't always work out for prospects (Borchard). I hope we have another trade coming.

I agree he is decent. And yes, he is more of a known quantity than our current #5 starter as of right now. But the key really remains those top 3 guys. If those guys pitch well, this team will be a favorite to win the division and more. If they don't pitch well, next year will not result in a playoff appearance (no matter who our #5 is), but at least we'll have a bright looking future.

So when I evaluate this trade, I think it adds some pressure to the top of the rotation to perform well. In exchange for that added pressure, we have a brighter future. I think that's generally a pretty good trade-off, but it does involve a good deal of risk.

Hokiesox
12-23-2006, 04:27 PM
Well, the one thing we all wanted this offseason was a new bullpen. We got it now, guess we can't complain about much. Beggers can't be choosers.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2006, 04:28 PM
if anything, we now are loaded with top prospects to make some huge trades. i see KW hanging on to everybody until may when he knows who he's going to keep and who he can deal. then he'll go out and pick up a centerfielder, shortstop, and whatever else he feels we need.

dugwood31
12-23-2006, 04:32 PM
I don't know if it's been mentioned in the thread, but Baseball America has Danks as Texas' number one prospect. Masset was 8.

Danks held his own at AAA as a 21 year old. He K'd more than one per inning last year.

Let's not put McCarthy in Cooperstown yet. He has promise, but it's alarmist to act like Kenny gave away the store on this one. Odds are good that in two years Danks will be a much better big leaguer than McCarthy.

Kenny overall strategy is obviously to gather young good arms. Gio, Danks, Haeger, Floyd, along with Broadway and McCullough are all good prospects. One of these guys will be a decent number 5 starter by the end of the year, if not better than number 5.

TaylorStSox
12-23-2006, 04:33 PM
I really love KW. He's pulling something really historical off. Not only is he keeping us competitive (we're still the best team in the Central on paper). He's rebuilding a broken farm system. Seriously, the guy knows what he's doing. The plan is to have a shot every year. Not many teams can say they truly do.