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Evman5
12-16-2006, 12:02 PM
...to the Royals for Andy Sisco


Ross!!!!!!!:(:

Per 670 the score.

LuvSox
12-16-2006, 12:04 PM
Gimme some proof............

Saracen
12-16-2006, 12:05 PM
They're talking about it on the Score, it's real.

NDSox12
12-16-2006, 12:05 PM
...to the Royals for Andy Sisco


Ross!!!!!!!:(:

Per 670 the score.

Wow, I love Ross, but that's a pretty good trade for the Sox. Left handed relievers certainly carry more value than pinch hitters. Sisco was terrible last year, but I like his chances of rebounding.

SABRSox
12-16-2006, 12:06 PM
Oh man... I really like Ross, but there's just no place for him on this team any more. He's too good to be relegated to a bench player.

If true, good luck to him in Kansas City. Heck of a player...

Saracen
12-16-2006, 12:07 PM
I like the trade. You can't ever have enough left handed bullpen guys. Sisco's a good bet to rebound.

Evman5
12-16-2006, 12:07 PM
Sorry I edited my first post.

Sisco had a 7.10 ERA last year!!!!! WOW. He is only 23.
Atleast Ross will get a chance to play so I am happy for him.
Doesnt look like he was too good against lefties.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-16-2006, 12:07 PM
Gload was probably the best bench player we ever had. Sisco better be good...

munchman33
12-16-2006, 12:08 PM
I absolutely love this trade. Sisco could be great for us. And now opens a roster spot for someone like Terrero to win a backup CF job.

sox1970
12-16-2006, 12:09 PM
Very nice! At least they aren't banking on Boone Logan.

Evman5
12-16-2006, 12:09 PM
Anybody know the scoop on why he struggled so badly last year?

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 12:09 PM
I like the deal. Another case of Kenny finding a young live arm who he will trust with Cooper and teaching him how to pitch.

SOXSINCE'70
12-16-2006, 12:10 PM
If this is true,I wish Gload luck.Please don't become
the left handed Mike Sweeney when playing against
the White Sox.

California Sox
12-16-2006, 12:11 PM
Sisco has the proverbial million dollar arm with a ten cent brain, but still, he has a million dollar arm. Love Ross, but this will probably be good for him. Might get 350ABs with the Royals. Also, clears a roster spot possibly for Sweeney to share cf with Anderson.

NDSox12
12-16-2006, 12:11 PM
There definitely won't be a team in MLB with better power arms in the bullpen than the Sox. Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal, Aardsma, Sisco. I see a lot of strike outs coming in the late innings.

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 12:11 PM
If this is true (I don't listen to "testicle" radio,too many
damn commercials),I wish Gload luck.Please don't become
the left handed Mike Sweeney when playing the White Sox.

Hey,I just had a dumb thought... Ross Gload is a former sCrUB.
So is Andy Sisco.Can you ever remember the Sox trading a
former sCrUB for yet another former sCrUB??
Spaces are optional huh?

DumpJerry
12-16-2006, 12:11 PM
How can this be? It's not Wednesday!

So, we trade one ex-Cub for another. I guess the ex-Cub Factor is a wash here.

Someone needs to get to Jenn2080's home real quick with a suicide prevention kit.......

SOXSINCE'70
12-16-2006, 12:13 PM
Spaces are optional huh?
I don't get it.

veeter
12-16-2006, 12:16 PM
Potentially, the Sox have one hell of a bullpen. Coop, do your stuff.

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 12:16 PM
I don't get it.
Look at your first post. I'm usually not one for the whole grammar correction thing but your first post was pretty jumbled together.

jenn2080
12-16-2006, 12:18 PM
THIS IS THE WORST ****ING DAY EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am going to be a KC fan everytime they are in town!:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:


I HEART YOU ROSS GLOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

veeter
12-16-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm anxious to see how Ross does on a full time basis. I could see him ending up .295/15/78. Not bad for $800,000. Good luck Ross.

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 12:20 PM
Anytime you can deal a career backup for a young live arm it's a good move.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-16-2006, 12:21 PM
It was either Gload or Mack and with Macks versatility it was a no brainer. Sisco will be a fine addition to the BP.

Sargeant79
12-16-2006, 12:23 PM
I'm disappointed to see Ross go, but I really like this trade. Cisco addresses a need and if he can be coached, he could turn out to be one of the better middle relievers around with his stuff.

It's also a good trade for Ross. The Sox bench is pretty crowded. Ross should be able to get at least 300 at bats if not more on KC.

spawn
12-16-2006, 12:24 PM
Has this been reported anywhere else?

If true...I like it. You can't have enough quality bullpen arms.

Timmy D's
12-16-2006, 12:25 PM
Tough to see a guy like Gload go.:whiner: Certainly wish him all the best, and will give him a nice applause upon his return on 5/11. I hope he does get a starting job there, he certainly deserves it.

batmanZoSo
12-16-2006, 12:26 PM
Oh Jeez, I don't know about Sisco. Seeing him come out of the pen usually filled me with that feeling that "everything's gonna be alright."

He can be dominant I guess, but the emphasis is on can.

jenn2080
12-16-2006, 12:27 PM
Tough to see a guy like Gload go.:whiner: Certainly wish him all the best, and will give him a nice applause upon his return on 5/11. I hope he does get a starting job there, he certainly deserves it.



Applaud is not the word. I will be wearing a KC Ross Gload shirt for every KC game.

Chez
12-16-2006, 12:27 PM
A good move in my opinion. Gload really was a luxury. We need a legit 4th outfielder -- one who can play CF. This opens up a spot on the bench. And Sisco has a huge upside.

JUribe1989
12-16-2006, 12:28 PM
Why get rid of Gload? It seems like he always got hits when he started, and was a valuable pinch runner. Sisco had a 7.10 ERA last year. We got a Royals reject for a fan favorite? Embarassing. Thumbs down by me for Kenny.

salty99
12-16-2006, 12:28 PM
I'm happy that Ross will finally get some playing time everyday, but I'm sad to see him go.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061216&content_id=1762816&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

MarkyBear
12-16-2006, 12:30 PM
Isn't 1B/CF Darrin Erstad still a FA?

I remember KW trying to get him a few years ago and I also remember reading how KW likes Erstad, interesting...

ilsox7
12-16-2006, 12:30 PM
I like it. I also did not realize Ross was 30!

I want Mags back
12-16-2006, 12:31 PM
good :D: trade

sox1970
12-16-2006, 12:31 PM
A good move in my opinion. Gload really was a luxury. We need a legit 4th outfielder -- one who can play CF. This opens up a spot on the bench. And Sisco has a huge upside.

4th outfielder--Luis Terrero?

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 12:32 PM
Why get rid of Gload? It seems like he always got hits when he started, and was a valuable pinch runner. Sisco had a 7.10 ERA last year. We got a Royals reject for a fan favorite? Embarassing. Thumbs down by me for Kenny.
A 30 yr old career backup for a 23 yr old live arm, the decision is a no brainer. Not to mention as someone said earlier it was either Gload or Mackowiak, Mack is a better option.

oeo
12-16-2006, 12:32 PM
Oh Jeez, I don't know about Sisco. Seeing him come out of the pen usually filled me with that feeling that "everything's gonna be alright."

He can be dominant I guess, but the emphasis is on can.

He's only 23 and had a pretty good rookie year...I like this trade. Ross was the most expendable guy on the bench...good luck, welcome Sisco.

DumpJerry
12-16-2006, 12:32 PM
Now we can sweep the Crosstown Classic.

veeter
12-16-2006, 12:32 PM
Isn't 1B/CF Darrin Erstad still a FA?

I remember KW trying to get him a few years ago and I also remember reading how KW likes Erstad, interesting...Yea, he almost sent Garland to the Angels straight up for him. We got lucky that the Angel owner backed out.

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 12:33 PM
Isn't 1B/CF Darrin Erstad still a FA?

I remember KW trying to get him a few years ago and I also remember reading how KW likes Erstad, interesting...
Please God NOOOOO.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 12:33 PM
THIS IS THE WORST ****ING DAY EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am going to be a KC fan everytime they are in town!:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:


I HEART YOU ROSS GLOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok bafia

jenn2080
12-16-2006, 12:36 PM
ROSS................:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

MarkyBear
12-16-2006, 12:37 PM
Yea, he almost sent Garland to the Angels straight up for him. We got lucky that the Angel owner backed out.

Please God NOOOOO.

I third that :redneck

Strange, I was just reading a FA list yesterday and saw his name, then thought "Nah, they just resigned Gload, no way"...

Myrtle72
12-16-2006, 12:41 PM
Gload was definitely one of my favorites on the Sox. This really sucks. I'll never forget seeing his grand slam in the 9th against the Orioles this past summer. First grand slam I had ever seen in person. :cool:

Anyway, I just hope that KW knows what the hell he is doing. These trades are starting to make him look bad... but I'm willing to give it a shot if he has good reasons.

batmanZoSo
12-16-2006, 12:44 PM
He's only 23 and had a pretty good rookie year...I like this trade. Ross was the most expendable guy on the bench...good luck, welcome Sisco.

I agree, but he did have a 7.10 ERA last year. It could be very exciting is all I'm saying.

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 12:44 PM
Gload was definitely one of my favorites on the Sox. This really sucks. I'll never forget seeing his grand slam in the 9th against the Orioles this past summer. First grand slam I had ever seen in person. :cool:

Anyway, I just hope that KW knows what the hell he is doing. These trades are starting to make him look bad... but I'm willing to give it a shot if he has good reasons.
Disregard your personal fan feeling of Gload. How is this deal a bad move? Ross was and always will be a career backup. Sisco is 23 years old and has a live arm. Not to mention now we have a spot for either Sweeney or Owens (preferrably Sweeney).

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 12:46 PM
Gload was definitely one of my favorites on the Sox. This really sucks. I'll never forget seeing his grand slam in the 9th against the Orioles this past summer. First grand slam I had ever seen in person. :cool:

Anyway, I just hope that KW knows what the hell he is doing. These trades are starting to make him look bad... but I'm willing to give it a shot if he has good reasons.

THIS trade makes him look bad?

This is a very low risk extremely high reward move by KW.

Yes, Gload was a solid contributor off the bench, but his ABs are always going to be limited by the fact that he can't play any position but 1B.

Meanwhile Sisco, although a risky commodity, is a very hard throwing lefty one year removed from a solid season. Oh, and he's only 23.

Worst case: he doesn't pan out, and we lose a bench player

Best case: we give up a guy who'll hit .270 with 15 HR (best case) next year at a position we have no use for for a guy who could be this year's thornton

sox1970
12-16-2006, 12:49 PM
Somebody on a Royals board, had this to say about Sisco:

"Sisco's got great stuff, threw mid 90's from the left side his first year in KC, then lost some velocity last year. A bit of a headcase as he prefers partying more than playing the game of baseball and that's why was moved to the pen. When he was a starter, he'd party on days he knew he wasn't going to pitch and rumor has it, the man can drink!


The Royals asked him to go to Mexico to pitch as a starter this offseason and while he did go, he did it with reservation. Not terribly committed or motivated, but if someone's able to inspire him, you've got a gem.


My hope was, as he got older and more mature, he would develop into a nice pitcher. I don't believe he was handled very well by management last year. Should have been sent to AAA and forced to earn his spot on the parent team."

soxinem1
12-16-2006, 12:50 PM
Disregard your personal fan feeling of Gload. How is this deal a bad move? Ross was and always will be a career backup. Sisco is 23 years old and has a live arm. Not to mention now we have a spot for either Sweeney or Owens (preferrably Sweeney).

I can see Ross getting 400-500 AB's with KC. I know they got Ryan Shealy from COL last year, but between DH, LF, RF, and 1B, he can get those AB's if he hits.

The White Sox get one of the livest LH arms in MLB. Talk about a bullpen with heat!

If anything, we will now have the tallest bullpen in MLB. I believe Jenks is the shortest one at 6'3"!!!!

kidmccarthy
12-16-2006, 12:51 PM
Its a shame. No more time for Gload to UNLOAD!!! I loved that saying.

Rotoworld is saying this is an absolute steal for the White Sox. They say that sisco has alot of upside, even possibly a starter. Kenny just keeps up the stockpile of young power. I like!

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 12:53 PM
Somebody on a Royals board, had this to say about Sisco:

"Sisco's got great stuff, threw mid 90's from the left side his first year in KC, then lost some velocity last year. A bit of a headcase as he prefers partying more than playing the game of baseball and that's why was moved to the pen. When he was a starter, he'd party on days he knew he wasn't going to pitch and rumor has it, the man can drink!


The Royals asked him to go to Mexico to pitch as a starter this offseason and while he did go, he did it with reservation. Not terribly committed or motivated, but if someone's able to inspire him, you've got a gem.


My hope was, as he got older and more mature, he would develop into a nice pitcher. I don't believe he was handled very well by management last year. Should have been sent to AAA and forced to earn his spot on the parent team."
Royals Message Boards!

Do you think on the Royals message boards they have "bright clouds" who get shot down by the moderators for being asinine.

Like
Yeah, I know this offseason seems to be going poorly but we got Gil Meche who had a talent a few years ago of pitching well

:brightcloud:
We're not going to let BRIGHT CLOUDS like you CHEER UP our memories of a FIFTH PLACE FINISH!

closed

cwsfannick
12-16-2006, 12:56 PM
WSI may have to do a well being check on Skottyj with this trade.

I just hope Sisco wasn't over used in KC. God knows their starting staff was getting knocked around on a daily basis.

Do the Royals have an opening at 1B? I thought Doug Mentkiewicz was their everyday first baseman.

Good luck Ross. You alwayls gave the team and us fans a solid effort.

Myrtle72
12-16-2006, 12:56 PM
THIS trade makes him look bad?

This is a very low risk extremely high reward move by KW.

Yes, Gload was a solid contributor off the bench, but his ABs are always going to be limited by the fact that he can't play any position but 1B.

Meanwhile Sisco, although a risky commodity, is a very hard throwing lefty one year removed from a solid season. Oh, and he's only 23.

Worst case: he doesn't pan out, and we lose a bench player

Best case: we give up a guy who'll hit .270 with 15 HR (best case) next year at a position we have no use for for a guy who could be this year's thornton

Okay, I admit I don't know much about Sisco at all, but I'm willing to give him a chance. And I am willing to get more information about the guy before I go throwing a hissy fit like some people... :D:

I do, however, think your "worst case" situation is downplayed. He doesn't pan out and we lose one of the BEST bench players. You have to admit that Gload did a whole lot of the Sox this past season and despite the fact that he doesn't start, he's pretty valueable.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-16-2006, 12:59 PM
I'm glad I checked the Clubhouse before logging out.

This is a great deal for both teams. Gload is a very good player who needs the chance to play, something the White Sox could not provide.

Sisco was foolishly left off of the list of players protected for the Rule 5 draft by the Cubs which is how the Royals snagged him. He pitched seven times against the White Sox last season, giving up six runs in three outings (3 IP) and pitched 2 1/3 innings in the other four outings.

He is a lot like Thornton - a tall, hard throwing left hander. He is young (will be 24 next season) and I think this is a win / win for both teams. Gload should get playing time in KC (with a low salary) and Thornton adds to the bullpen which most of us agree was Kenny's top priority this offseason.

Thanks Ross Gload and hello Sisco Kid!!!

ilsox7
12-16-2006, 12:59 PM
THIS trade makes him look bad?

This is a very low risk extremely high reward move by KW.

Yes, Gload was a solid contributor off the bench, but his ABs are always going to be limited by the fact that he can't play any position but 1B.

Meanwhile Sisco, although a risky commodity, is a very hard throwing lefty one year removed from a solid season. Oh, and he's only 23.

Worst case: he doesn't pan out, and we lose a bench player

Best case: we give up a guy who'll hit .270 with 15 HR (best case) next year at a position we have no use for for a guy who could be this year's thornton

Well said. This trade is fantastic for us, IMO. Hell, I like the Garcia trade, too (one of a few around here who does). I think KW is doing a good job of stockpiling live arms. Sure, they all won't work out, but odds are some will.

Sisco is young, talented, and one year removed from a pretty solid year. Ross Gload is a 30 year old utility player. This had to be as no-brainer as they come.

Myrtle72
12-16-2006, 01:02 PM
I'm glad I checked the Clubhouse before logging out.

This is a great deal for both teams. Gload is a very good player who needs the chance to play, something the White Sox could not provide him.


This is a little off-topic, but I have always wondered if Gload would be quite as good if he were playing more often. I think he fills his role as a bench player perfectly - why mess that up?

buehrle4cy05
12-16-2006, 01:03 PM
Honestly, this is a good deal for both. It hopefully will give Ross a chance to start and Sisco is a guy who definetly has the potential to be a Matt Thronton-type reliever (blazing fastball, but he needs to work on his slider/offspeed pitches).

Kenny keeps on adding power arms to this bullpen. Aardsma, Sisco, Thornton, MacDougal, Jenks all can throw in the high 90's.

pearso66
12-16-2006, 01:04 PM
Okay, I admit I don't know much about Sisco at all, but I'm willing to give him a chance. And I am willing to get more information about the guy before I go throwing a hissy fit like some people... :D:

I do, however, think your "worst case" situation is downplayed. He doesn't pan out and we lose one of the BEST bench players. You have to admit that Gload did a whole lot of the Sox this past season and despite the fact that he doesn't start, he's pretty valueable.

Gload might have been one of the BEST bench players, but he never played. Nobody wanted to see him play the OF, and with Konerko and Thome playing 1st, there was no time for him to play there. I believe the only playing time he really got last year was when one of the 2 was hurt, but I think Mack could fill that role just fine this year. Plus as has been mentioned, he's already 30 years old, and won't get a lot of PT this year either. I would make that trade every time. A bench player for a possible stud left handed reliever.

WizardsofOzzie
12-16-2006, 01:06 PM
Why get rid of Gload? It seems like he always got hits when he started, and was a valuable pinch runner. Sisco had a 7.10 ERA last year. We got a Royals reject for a fan favorite? Embarassing. Thumbs down by me for Kenny.
Gload may have been a valueable bench player but he was never going to start for this team (until the point where his skills diminished anyways). We needed a lefty in the pen, and we got a very young guy who has plenty of room to improve (and can from what im reading). It's similar to the Borchard trade in my opinion but he wasn't as much of a fan favorite. One man's trash is anothers treasure

southside rocks
12-16-2006, 01:07 PM
Wow, I'm sorry to see Ross Gload leave -- he's a very classy guy, from what I hear and read.

Who now is the backup at 1B for Konerko? Mackowiak -- since he's never going to play CF again?

SouthSide_HitMen
12-16-2006, 01:07 PM
This is a little off-topic, but I have always wondered if Gload would be quite as good if he were playing more often. I think he fills his role as a bench player perfectly - why mess that up?

We shall find out in 2007. :D:

I like this deal for the White Sox. I also liked the Garcia deal. I have liked just about everything Kenny has done after the Podsednik trade (which I didn't like until Kenny signed Iguchi and AJ with the leftover Carlos Lee money).

Glad to see Kenny is still flying under the radar. :cool:

santo=dorf
12-16-2006, 01:08 PM
I'm anxious to see how Ross does on a full time basis. I could see him ending up .295/15/78. Not bad for $800,000. Good luck Ross.
Well it's not going to happen because they have Sweeney and Shealy.

http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif
Royals acquired first baseman Ross Gload from the White Sox for LHP Andrew Sisco.

Awful. At least Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez could be justified by the not quite non-existent chance that Ramirez could somehow be a No. 3 starter in the AL. Gload is a 30-year-old backup first baseman with little chance of being more than a useful pinch-hitter going forward. Sisco is a 24-year-old left-hander with terrific stuff who the Royals made the mistake of forcing into the bullpen. Players like Gload are available as minor league free agents every year. Players like Sisco become available only when you're lucky enough to catch a bad GM on the right day. We're growing less impressed with Dayton Moore by the minute. Gload can hit a little in his limited role, but he's no better equipped to help the Royals than Justin Huber is. Huber is probably the next youngster Moore will sell off for at a big discount.

MrX
12-16-2006, 01:09 PM
Somebody on a Royals board, had this to say about Sisco:

"Sisco's got great stuff, threw mid 90's from the left side his first year in KC, then lost some velocity last year. A bit of a headcase as he prefers partying more than playing the game of baseball and that's why was moved to the pen. When he was a starter, he'd party on days he knew he wasn't going to pitch and rumor has it, the man can drink!


The Royals asked him to go to Mexico to pitch as a starter this offseason and while he did go, he did it with reservation. Not terribly committed or motivated, but if someone's able to inspire him, you've got a gem.


My hope was, as he got older and more mature, he would develop into a nice pitcher. I don't believe he was handled very well by management last year. Should have been sent to AAA and forced to earn his spot on the parent team."

I'd drink to if I had to play for the Royals.

I like this trade a lot.

WizardsofOzzie
12-16-2006, 01:11 PM
Sorry Jenn, my heart goes out to you but it's still a good trade for the team. I promise whenever i see you at a game, we will have a drink to the memory of Ross Gload :gulp:

santo=dorf
12-16-2006, 01:13 PM
I can only imagine how this board would react if we traded Cotts after 2004 for Matt LeCroy or some other backup first baseman. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If Sisco sucks, we can send him to AAA. Gload was a waste of a roster space (yes I thought he was a pretty good hitter,) with Thome/Konerko and he lack of being able to play in the OF.

sox1970
12-16-2006, 01:13 PM
I'd drink to if I had to play for the Royals.

I like this trade a lot.

I do too. I like that they'll probably go to Tucson with a pretty set bullpen. Everyone will know their role when they get there. It's probably a good feeling to have for the players and coaching staff alike.

Myrtle72
12-16-2006, 01:16 PM
Gload was a waste of a roster space

Look out for Jenn the next time you are sleeping. :tongue:

dcb56
12-16-2006, 01:19 PM
Somebody on a Royals board, had this to say about Sisco:

"Sisco's got great stuff, threw mid 90's from the left side his first year in KC, then lost some velocity last year. A bit of a headcase as he prefers partying more than playing the game of baseball and that's why was moved to the pen. When he was a starter, he'd party on days he knew he wasn't going to pitch and rumor has it, the man can drink!


The Royals asked him to go to Mexico to pitch as a starter this offseason and while he did go, he did it with reservation. Not terribly committed or motivated, but if someone's able to inspire him, you've got a gem.


My hope was, as he got older and more mature, he would develop into a nice pitcher. I don't believe he was handled very well by management last year. Should have been sent to AAA and forced to earn his spot on the parent team."


So we got a poor man's Kyle Farnsworth?!?! Woo-hoo!

I like this move, shored up the bullpen at a very low cost. Now all KW has left to do is address the SS and LF positions.

goon
12-16-2006, 01:20 PM
:gulp:

it always sucks to see one of the "good" guys go, see rowand 2005, but this is a very good move for the sox and ross.

welcome to the chicago sisco, you ogre bastard.

downstairs
12-16-2006, 01:20 PM
Who now is the backup at 1B for Konerko? Mackowiak -- since he's never going to play CF again?

Yep, I bet he is... and that's a perfect spot for him.

sox1970
12-16-2006, 01:21 PM
Who now is the backup at 1B for Konerko? Mackowiak -- since he's never going to play CF again?

More moves are on the way, but I'd have to say Casey Rogowski is the new Ross Gload at this point.

NDSox12
12-16-2006, 01:22 PM
Wow, I'm sorry to see Ross Gload leave -- he's a very classy guy, from what I hear and read.

Who now is the backup at 1B for Konerko? Mackowiak -- since he's never going to play CF again?

Well, if Konerko were to miss any significant time, I'm sure Thome can still handle first base. If its an in-game substitution, then yes, Mockowiak is a possibility. He has played a little 1B.

Huisj
12-16-2006, 01:23 PM
I'm anxious to see how Ross does on a full time basis. I could see him ending up .295/15/78. Not bad for $800,000. Good luck Ross.

78 RBI? I was thinking more like 77, or maybe 79. :tongue:



Who now is the backup at 1B for Konerko? Mackowiak -- since he's never going to play CF again?

Hard to say if Mackowiak could be a regular 1B backup or not. He's only played 17 innings there in his whole career. Maybe if they get to a situation like when Konerko's back was acting up last year, Thome gets some work in at 1B if he's healthy? I know people might not like that because of the injury risk, but, really, the guy is a first baseman, so it would make sense that if they need one, he would maybe be a better choice than Mackowiak, right?

Juice16
12-16-2006, 01:25 PM
Why get rid of Gload? It seems like he always got hits when he started, and was a valuable pinch runner. Sisco had a 7.10 ERA last year. We got a Royals reject for a fan favorite? Embarassing. Thumbs down by me for Kenny.


Agreed 100%

ondafarm
12-16-2006, 01:25 PM
I see this trade as good for both guys and good for both teams. The Sox needed the extra arm and if Cooper thinks he can work with Sisco and make him better then great. Gload will get much more playing time and may even be a regular. Sisco was obviously struggling with a struggling team, if he wanted a change he's got it and the Royals get a steady, seful player for a guy who wasn't doing much for them.

DumpJerry
12-16-2006, 01:28 PM
Someone needs to get to Jenn2080's home real quick with a suicide prevention kit.......

THIS IS THE WORST ****ING DAY EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am going to be a KC fan everytime they are in town!:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:


I HEART YOU ROSS GLOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROSS................:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:
Lord I hope we're not too late..........

flo-B-flo
12-16-2006, 01:29 PM
Another young power arm for Coop to straighten out. KW said he would upgrade the pitching and he has. I'd take this team to battle for 162 and beyond.......

SoxxoS
12-16-2006, 01:37 PM
What a fantastic trade. Plus, when we play the Flubs and Sisco shuts his ass down, we can rub it in their faces for giving him up in the rule 5.

102605
12-16-2006, 01:38 PM
I hate this trade. Another trade of someone who could help us win a championship next year for a prospect? Sisco may have been in the big leagues last year but he is light years away.

I don't get it. Neither this move nor the Garcia deal help us one bit for the 2007 season.

Baby Fisk
12-16-2006, 01:40 PM
Good trade. Cooper must be loving it.

MarySwiss
12-16-2006, 01:47 PM
I like this trade a lot. I'll miss Ross, but like others have said, this could wind up being good for him as well.

Frater Perdurabo
12-16-2006, 01:48 PM
The biggest win for the Sox with this trade is that it opens up another position at which Ozzie can play Mackowiak on occasion, and opens up a roster spot for a true outfielder who can field CF better than Mack.

The smaller the number of innings that Mackowiak plays in CF, the more the Sox benefit. Mack can get plenty of ABs as the primary backup at third, first, left and right, while Cintron will backup second and short.

I wish the best of luck to Ross.

Frater Perdurabo
12-16-2006, 01:49 PM
Good trade. Cooper must be loving it.

Yes, but will Cooper have enough hours in the day to work with all these live arms? :tongue:

HotelWhiteSox
12-16-2006, 01:49 PM
Nice, happy to see them focus on the pen. Gload was good, but he was being wasted here anyways, and really his playing time last time was more showcasing when we were out of it than giving us a spark. Thumbs up to Kenny on this one.

WizardsofOzzie
12-16-2006, 01:50 PM
I hate this trade. Another trade of someone who could help us win a championship next year for a prospect? Sisco may have been in the big leagues last year but he is light years away.

I don't get it. Neither this move nor the Garcia deal help us one bit for the 2007 season.
:tealpolice:

How the hell was Gload going to play a big role in helping us win a World Series in 2007 again???

santo=dorf
12-16-2006, 01:51 PM
I hate this trade. Another trade of someone who could help us win a championship next year for a prospect? Sisco may have been in the big leagues last year but he is light years away.

I don't get it. Neither this move nor the Garcia deal help us one bit for the 2007 season.
Please tell me how much Gload helped us in 2005, and how his 156 at bats helped us last season.

He's 30 years old and has always been blocked by better players: Grace, Helton, Konerko, and Thome. He really has no role on this team.

Sisco is going to be 24, and under our control for at least 4 more years. We can also send him down to AAA if things don't work out, and he wouldn't be burning a 25 man roster spot like Gload.


I could only imagine what this board's reaction would be if we traded Cotts after 2004 for a Matt LeCroy or some other career backup.

I mean, it's not like Sisco has ANY upside or that the Sox have a need for a LHP. Who wants young pitching these days? :rolleyes:


I'm still waiting for an answer; with Shealy, Sweeney, Dejesus, Brown, Sanders, Gathright and Teahen (remember the Royals are going to move him to the OF for Alex Gordon,) how does Gload fit into their team, let alone get 500 at-bats?

lumpyspun
12-16-2006, 01:54 PM
Why do I have a feeling Gload is going to hit the cover off the ball against us next year? I'm not saying he'll be a big guy out to get revenge, b/c he's probably thrilled with the trade...but, I just see this dude being a future Sox killer.

oeo
12-16-2006, 01:54 PM
Gload was definitely one of my favorites on the Sox. This really sucks. I'll never forget seeing his grand slam in the 9th against the Orioles this past summer. First grand slam I had ever seen in person. :cool:

Anyway, I just hope that KW knows what the hell he is doing. These trades are starting to make him look bad... but I'm willing to give it a shot if he has good reasons.

How does this trade make him look bad? :?:

Ross Gload is a 30-year-old bench player...we just got a 23-year-old lefty with a high ceiling. Not to mention Gload can only play first base, which makes his value is pretty low. Is Gload more overrated than Rowand? :dunno:

WizardsofOzzie
12-16-2006, 01:58 PM
How does this trade make him look bad? :?:

Ross Gload is a 30-year-old bench player...we just got a 23-year-old lefty with a high ceiling. Not to mention Gload can only play first base, which makes his value is pretty low. Is Gload more overrated than Rowand? :dunno:
Technically Gload can also play the outfield but it really depends on your definition of " can play" :redneck

1951Campbell
12-16-2006, 02:02 PM
A 30 yr old career backup for a 23 yr old live arm, the decision is a no brainer. Not to mention as someone said earlier it was either Gload or Mackowiak, Mack is a better option.

Gload's 30? Man, time flies.

At any rate, surely lefty bullpen pitching is more valuable than yet another bench guy. Not a blockbuster trade, but it seems we improved the roster here, to be sure.

infohawk
12-16-2006, 02:04 PM
Why do I have a feeling Gload is going to hit the cover off the ball against us next year? I'm not saying he'll be a big guy out to get revenge, b/c he's probably thrilled with the trade...but, I just see this dude being a future Sox killer.
It may happen, who knows. As much as Ross helped the Sox, there is a reason he is a career bench player. The more at-bats he gets the more his weaknesses will be exposed. As a part-time player though, the is exceedingly useful.

This kind of personnel move, the one that appears small at the time, is the kind of KW trade that often seems to pay big dividends.

santo=dorf
12-16-2006, 02:04 PM
Technically Gload can also play the outfield but it really depends on your definition of " can play" :redneck
Mack as a CF is better than Gload as a RF.

Think about that. :o:

SoxxoS
12-16-2006, 02:05 PM
This love affair with the 05 team needs to stop. Rowand I can see b/c he had a personality and he was likeable...but Gload was a freakin role player with the personality of a gnat.

chisoxfanatic
12-16-2006, 02:13 PM
I don't know why some people here are fretting Sisco's lack of motivation and party-hardy attitude. Look where Jenks was before coming here...he had major issues, but he REALLY turned it around when he came here. The same could happen to Sisco. Ozzie will command more out of Sisco than anyone in the KC organization did.

This is a decent trade.

jenn2080
12-16-2006, 02:13 PM
:tealpolice:

How the hell was Gload going to play a big role in helping us win a World Series in 2007 again???

This BFF is over.

WizardsofOzzie
12-16-2006, 02:16 PM
Mack as a CF is better than Gload as a RF.

Think about that. :o:

Im not saying that he is good at it.....im just saying he's done it before

This BFF is over.
Hey, i told you we'd drink to him whenever i see you a few pages back. Surely you can forgive me Jenn!!! :whiner:

cheeses_h_rice
12-16-2006, 02:22 PM
I'll miss G-Load, but to get a potentially dominant lefty reliever for him is a steal, in my book. The Sox didn't lose because of lack of offense in '06, they lost because of pitching. Pitching, pitching, pitching. It's all about pitching.

Have I told you how much I think pitching is important?

:)

soxfan1983
12-16-2006, 02:24 PM
I'm personally happy for Gload. FINALLY he gets to become an everyday player. I'm sure he's happy but at the same time sad about leaving the Sox. Good luck buddy!

caulfield12
12-16-2006, 02:24 PM
Looks like KW and Dayton Moore are building a good working relationship, with Lumsden/MacDougal and now this trade.

Sisco is another Thornton, minus 3-5 MPH on his fastball. I would have preferred to rehabilitate Jeremy Affeldt over Sisco, but I'll take a live lefthander with his size and go with it.

But Thornton's frame and his delivery can make things very tough on lefties, when he's on. Last year, he was the equivalent of Gavin Floyd from the pen.

Probably just needed a change of scenery for both guys.

Gload fits in as a bench player and insurance for Sweeney and the new 1B they acquired from the Rockies in mid-season, Ryan Shealy. In fact, I think he might have a chance to start if Shealy completely bombs in ST.

He would take Doug Mientkiewicz's role as the back-up 1B with KC.

caulfield12
12-16-2006, 02:25 PM
I'm personally happy for Gload. FINALLY he gets to become an everyday player. I'm sure he's happy but at the same time sad about leaving the Sox. Good luck buddy!


Right now, he's projected as a back-up to Ryan Shealy.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/16256353.htm

Love the quote about Gload's "rep" as a fine defensive outfielder. These articles by "sports services" (like AP) never get anything right about a player.

BeviBall!
12-16-2006, 02:28 PM
Can't really complain about this. You're getting a guy with a live arm for someone else that would have, if lucky, played about 15-20 times next year.

Pretty much everyone in the pen can bring fire and that's my kind of bullpen!

caulfield12
12-16-2006, 02:31 PM
As mentioned, this finally opens up that CF back-up for a RH batter.

Might be Terrero, but I wouldn't count on that happening until Spring Training is over and KW has vetted every possible option off other teams' rosters and waiver wire process.

Jenks
MacDougal
Aardsma
Tracey/Haeger/Floyd

Thornton
Sisco
Logan/Gio/Malone

Now we have 4-6 legitimate candidates for one bullpen position. That looks quite a bit better.

Huisj
12-16-2006, 02:32 PM
Sisco is another Thornton, minus 3-5 MPH on his fastball. I would have preferred to rehabilitate Jeremy Affeldt over Sisco, but I'll take a live lefthander with his size and go with it.

But Thornton's frame and his delivery can make things very tough on lefties, when he's on. Last year, he was the equivalent of Gavin Floyd from the pen.

Probably just needed a change of scenery for both guys.

Gload fits in as a bench player and insurance for Sweeney and the new 1B they acquired from the Rockies in mid-season, Ryan Shealy. In fact, I think he might have a chance to start if Shealy completely bombs in ST.

He would take Doug Mientkiewicz's role as the back-up 1B with KC.

I think Affeldt actually went to Colorado in that Shealy deal.

CaptainBallz
12-16-2006, 02:33 PM
Good to get that lefty into the pen.
There were never any worries when I saw Gload come off the bench last season. Best of luck to him in KC. I see him causing the Sox some problems in '07.

Ja-ja-ja-ja-ja-ja G-LOAD!!

itsnotrequired
12-16-2006, 02:34 PM
Anyone see skottyj242 yet? We might need to put him on suicide watch!:tongue:

I like the trade though.

JB98
12-16-2006, 02:35 PM
Solid trade. We needed another lefty arm for the bullpen, someone other than Boone Logan, and we got it. And all we had to give up was a spare part. It was hard for Ross to find ABs last season, and I figure it would have been more of the same for him had he remained on our roster for 2007.

Gload is not a good outfielder, and with Konerko and Thome, we don't have a lot of opportunities for him at 1B or DH. Mackowiak and Cintron can handle the left-handed pinch-hitting duties just fine.

Ross was expendable, and we got a good, young arm for him. I'm happy.

caulfield12
12-16-2006, 02:36 PM
I think Affeldt actually went to Colorado in that Shealy deal.

That's what I meant, from living here in KC the past 8-9 years, I would have preferred Affeldt, but he's obviously not available.

Unless they resurrect the Astros' rumor as Garland for Hirsch, Taveras, and Affeldt!!!

samram
12-16-2006, 02:38 PM
I like it. To get a 23 lefty who throws in the mid 90s and has shown some flashes is pretty good for a 30 year old who can play only a limited role.

sox1970
12-16-2006, 02:38 PM
2007 Bullpen:
Charlie Haeger
David Aardsma
Andrew Sisco
Matt Thornton
Mike MacDougal
Bobby Jenks

Me likey...for now.

cheeses_h_rice
12-16-2006, 02:40 PM
Right now, he's projected as a back-up to Ryan Shealy.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/16256353.htm

Love the quote about Gload's "rep" as a fine defensive outfielder. These articles by "sports services" (like AP) never get anything right about a player.

I recall one particular game in '06 where G-Load's D helped cost the Sox a win against Houston, the game the Sox came back from 9-1 to tie it with Iguchi's grannie. A bloop fly ball down the first base line that would have been caught by Dye eluded Ross's glove, and that runner ended up being the difference in the game, in the 13th.

voodoochile
12-16-2006, 02:41 PM
It's not personal, FORGs. Just business, baby...

Trading a guy who's primary purpose was as a backup LHPH for a young live arm is always a good deal...

caulfield12
12-16-2006, 02:41 PM
2007 Bullpen:
Charlie Haeger
David Aardsma
Andrew Sisco
Matt Thornton
Mike MacDougal
Bobby Jenks

Me likey...for now.


We're a long way from Haeger being the "shoo-in," as we are from Sisco being guaranteed the spot IMO.

There's also Floyd, Tracey, Logan, Gio Gonzalez and Corwin Malone, maybe even Oneli Perez, that could emerge.

JB98
12-16-2006, 02:48 PM
We're a long way from Haeger being the "shoo-in," as we are from Sisco being guaranteed the spot IMO.

There's also Floyd, Tracey, Logan, Gio Gonzalez and Corwin Malone, maybe even Oneli Perez, that could emerge.

There will be competition, but you have to think Sisco will be given every opportunity to win that job as the second lefty in the bullpen. It's probably his to lose.

Gio needs another year in the minors, IMO. I'm not sure Malone is ever going to help us.

sox1970
12-16-2006, 02:51 PM
We're a long way from Haeger being the "shoo-in," as we are from Sisco being guaranteed the spot IMO.

There's also Floyd, Tracey, Logan, Gio Gonzalez and Corwin Malone, maybe even Oneli Perez, that could emerge.

Yeah, I agree we're a long way away. But if pressed I'd say Haeger is in the mix with Floyd at AAA as a starter.

Gio has no chance of starting the year with the parent club. He's 21, and never pitched above AA ball. He'll be in Birmingham or Charlotte.

Corwin Malone? What's he still doing here?

Oneli Perez....I hear you on that one. I'm looking forward to seeing what he's got. He had a helluva 2006, but probably needs another year.

veeter
12-16-2006, 02:52 PM
I don't think any team leans on their pitching coach, as much as the Sox. We need to lock up Coop with a contract. Anyone know his contract status?

SoxSpeed22
12-16-2006, 02:53 PM
........
........
We knew one of the three between Mack, Cintron and Gload would be traded because there were 26 guys. Unfortunately, with two first basemen ahead of him and inability to play other positions, there was just no room for Gload.
Sisco is a great prospect that couldn't find the strike zone against us, hopefully he will in a Sox uni. Coop has got another project on his hand.
I will thank Ross for this...ah never mind, too big.
I just like the quote, "Gload Blasphemer!"

champagne030
12-16-2006, 02:54 PM
I do too. I like that they'll probably go to Tucson with a pretty set bullpen. Everyone will know their role when they get there. It's probably a good feeling to have for the players and coaching staff alike.

Easy on the :gulp: . The back end of the 'pen is set. The front 3 consist of a couple of projects and someone mediocre. Sisco and Aardsma have nice arms, but can either one can hit a barn. Coop will have his hands full this ST. He has a reclamation project with Floyd, some serious, serious work with Sisco and a decent amount of refining to do with Aardsma. We have better arms to throw at the tryouts for the bullpen than last season, but this year we have 2 spots to fill instead of one....better pool to pick from, but still nobody that's done it before. Get two more proven arms KW and push Aardsma to #6 and let Sisco and Gavin go get their **** together in Charlotte.


Mack as a CF is better than Gload as a RF.

Think about that. :o:

No, he is not. Gload sucks in RF, but I have never seen a worse CF than Mack last season. Soriano might give him a run for his money if the flubs play him there, but you are wrong about your statement.

I don't mind Gload for Sisco. I'd rather we would've traded Mack. Nothing personal, but Mack shouldn't be anywhere near any OF position except for an emergency. Alex is better defensively in the IF than Mack, so now he basically becomes Gload for a higher price and who knows if he can backup Konerko at 1B or perform getting only 2 AB's every 2 weeks. He does have the potential to fill more positions than Gload, but does anyone really want Mack over Alex at 2B or 3B?

Whatever Gload/Mack, we received a nice arm for a guy we passed through waivers last season or our 25th man. Sisco's a major project, but has a ton of upside. KW needs to get a couple of proven and cheaper veterans (Riske for one would immediately be #4 in our pen) and let Floyd/Sisco get their **** together in the minors and see if Logan can continue to progress in the minors.

JB98
12-16-2006, 02:54 PM
I don't think any team leans on their pitching coach, as much as the Sox. We need to lock up Coop with a contract. Anyone know his contract status?

Every team leans on its pitching coach.

Chisox003
12-16-2006, 02:56 PM
I love this trade.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-16-2006, 02:56 PM
I've seen Andy Sisco pitch a few games and he seems to have no confidence in his stuff at times. Some of you may remember that game in 2005 when we beat the Royals in KC 2-1 and we scored both runs because of Sisco and someone else in that bullpen walking the bases loaded and then giving up another walk later on in that game.

If Ozzie can help him acquire a pair of you know whats and Cooper takes care of his on the field problems, this is a great pick up. If he can't improve his control and remains easily rattled, we made a bad trade.

I believe it was Jon Garland or Brandon McCarthy that said Ross Gload was the best pure contact hitter they've seen. An iffy move but Gload never seemed to have a chance at starting so this can't hurt us too much if Sisco doesn't succeed in Chicago. He was a great pinch-hitter and spot starter and I loved the guy on our team but we could've lost more important pieces.

alohafri
12-16-2006, 02:57 PM
A good move in my opinion. Gload really was a luxury. We need a legit 4th outfielder -- one who can play CF. This opens up a spot on the bench. And Sisco has a huge upside.

Amen. I liked Gload but he never should have been allowed to play the outfield. Teach Mack how to play first to spell Paulie and get a legit 4th outfielder so we don't have Mack in the outfield.

Herbal
12-16-2006, 03:02 PM
Yes, but will Cooper have enough hours in the day to work with all these live arms? :tongue:

I was thinking the same thing about two posts before I read yours.

While it's always good to have live arms late in the game, does the pen have too many hard throwers at this point? Is there any value in having a couple of finesse guys in the mix as well? Or, do the hard throwers Kenny's lined up have different enough "looks" to change the hitter's eyes?

caulfield12
12-16-2006, 03:07 PM
I was thinking the same thing about two posts before I read yours.

While it's always good to have live arms late in the game, does the pen have too many hard throwers at this point? Is there any value in having a couple of finesse guys in the mix as well? Or, do the hard throwers Kenny's lined up have different enough "looks" to change the hitter's eyes?

Sisco throws more across his body...and he has a slider and fastball.

I think we're okay on that front.

This also seems to be the main argument for including Haeger in the bullpen. We'll just have to wait and see.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 03:08 PM
Why do I have a feeling Gload is going to hit the cover off the ball against us next year? I'm not saying he'll be a big guy out to get revenge, b/c he's probably thrilled with the trade...but, I just see this dude being a future Sox killer.

because sox fans often have silly hunches with no grounding in reality based on overrating sox players, especially sox bench players who they're "JUST SURE would be great if only they have a chance to play"

that'd be my best guess why

TaylorStSox
12-16-2006, 03:23 PM
Why get rid of Gload? It seems like he always got hits when he started, and was a valuable pinch runner. Sisco had a 7.10 ERA last year. We got a Royals reject for a fan favorite? Embarassing. Thumbs down by me for Kenny.

You can't be serious. KW just got one of the best LH arms in the league for Ross freakin Gload. Sisco needs some work, but you can't teach that kind of ability.

Lorenzo Barcelo
12-16-2006, 03:30 PM
We're a long way from Haeger being the "shoo-in," as we are from Sisco being guaranteed the spot IMO.

There's also Floyd, Tracey, Logan, Gio Gonzalez and Corwin Malone, maybe even Oneli Perez, that could emerge.

Malone will not be anywhere near the bullpen next year. Corwin Malone= Next Lorenzo Barcelo...

Steelrod
12-16-2006, 03:30 PM
Good guy with no place on this team. Just one year removed from him being picked over Joe Borchard.
I wish him well. he deserves a chance to start somewhere. If our acquisition works out, it will be a bonus!

Dolanski
12-16-2006, 03:31 PM
Anybody know the scoop on why he struggled so badly last year?

He played for Kansas City... :cool:

TaylorStSox
12-16-2006, 03:42 PM
There's going to be alot of competition with all of these projects who have live arms. I think putting a few of them together will help motivate them. Also, if I were stuck in KC, I'd have a little problem with the drinky too.

Fungo
12-16-2006, 03:50 PM
Well played Kenny. Well played.

Jjav829
12-16-2006, 03:56 PM
This is a steal! Way to go, Kenny! A 30-year-old journeyman first baseman for a 23-year-old lefty with good upside? I wonder who proposed this deal. If it was Dayton Moore, Kenny had to have been laughing as he heard Moore say it. If Kenny somehow managed to talk Moore into making this deal, well, kudos to him.

This trade makes absolutely no sense for the Royals. They already have a decent young 1B in Ryan Shealy and another player with some potential in Justin Huber. Plus they still have to find a spot for Mark Teahen, though he'll probably wind up in the outfield.

Good luck to Gload. He handled the situation well. He'll probably receive a good amount of playing time in Kansas City. Whether he should is another story.

I have no idea why the Royals made this trade, but I'm glad we are the ones who took advantage of them. I really like Sisco's chances of turning into a quality reliever.

santo=dorf
12-16-2006, 03:57 PM
2007 Bullpen:
Charlie Haeger
David Aardsma
Andrew Sisco
Matt Thornton
Mike MacDougal
Bobby Jenks

Me likey...for now.
:reinsy
"me too. Now I don't have to switch to Geico."

Domeshot17
12-16-2006, 04:00 PM
Well, I like it to an extent, but half our bullpen is a big question mark. I wonder if eventually we need to get a guy we know will be good, instead of acquiring guys who have had crap for stats with potential all the time and telling coop to fix them.

I mean, I like the trade, Sisco has a big arm, but what happens is Sisco Aardsma and Gavin Floyd DON'T turn it around right away, thats half or 3/7 of a bullpen in trouble.

thomas35forever
12-16-2006, 04:04 PM
Time for Coop to save another arm from the Kansas City bullpen.

champagne030
12-16-2006, 04:11 PM
Well, I like it to an extent, but half our bullpen is a big question mark. I wonder if eventually we need to get a guy we know will be good, instead of acquiring guys who have had crap for stats with potential all the time and telling coop to fix them.

I mean, I like the trade, Sisco has a big arm, but what happens is Sisco Aardsma and Gavin Floyd DON'T turn it around right away, thats half or 3/7 of a bullpen in trouble.

It's half (3/6). We will not have a 12 man pitching staff unless a starter sucks or gets hurt.

TaylorStSox
12-16-2006, 04:12 PM
Well, I like it to an extent, but half our bullpen is a big question mark. I wonder if eventually we need to get a guy we know will be good, instead of acquiring guys who have had crap for stats with potential all the time and telling coop to fix them.

I mean, I like the trade, Sisco has a big arm, but what happens is Sisco Aardsma and Gavin Floyd DON'T turn it around right away, thats half or 3/7 of a bullpen in trouble.



That's the market. We're forced to take risks on quality arms. Who else is out there? It's not like teams can't wait to get of reliable BP pitchers. That's the nature of being in the pen. There aren't a whole lot of guys that you can really count on year in and year out.

beckett21
12-16-2006, 04:13 PM
This is a steal! Way to go, Kenny! A 30-year-old journeyman first baseman for a 23-year-old lefty with good upside? I wonder who proposed this deal. If it was Dayton Moore, Kenny had to have been laughing as he heard Moore say it. If Kenny somehow managed to talk Moore into making this deal, well, kudos to him.

This trade makes absolutely no sense for the Royals. They already have a decent young 1B in Ryan Shealy and another player with some potential in Justin Huber. Plus they still have to find a spot for Mark Teahen, though he'll probably wind up in the outfield.

Good luck to Gload. He handled the situation well. He'll probably receive a good amount of playing time in Kansas City. Whether he should is another story.

I have no idea why the Royals made this trade, but I'm glad we are the ones who took advantage of them. I really like Sisco's chances of turning into a quality reliever.

Agreed on all counts. Love the deal.

Great job Kenny. :thumbsup:

champagne030
12-16-2006, 04:14 PM
That's the market. We're forced to take risks on quality arms. Who else is out there? It's not like teams can't wait to get of reliable BP pitchers. That's the nature of being in the pen. There aren't a whole lot of guys that you can really count on year in and year out.

Riske and Rhodes are left. Mesa would've been far more proven than anything we have 4-6. And they're all pretty cheap.....

KRS1
12-16-2006, 04:17 PM
Here's adventure, here's romance, here's the famous Robbin Hood of the old west. Here's the SISCO kid.

Domeshot17
12-16-2006, 04:19 PM
Personally, I would have liked us to throw some money into the pen this year at a guy like Jamie Walker. Good solid Lefty, wouldnt have broke the bank. Just, my thinking is, the Pen more then any other position cost us the playoffs (Starters a close 2nd). Why then head into the following season by replacing the question marks with other question marks. In a way, the same knocks on Cotts are the same on Sisco (Location of pitches, Easily Rattled, no trust in his stuff).

I in no way mind gambling on guys here and there, but we really need all these guys to pan out if we are going to return to the promise land.

oeo
12-16-2006, 04:21 PM
Riske and Rhodes are left. Mesa would've been far more proven than anything we have 4-6. And they're all pretty cheap.....

What's proven about him? That you don't know what you're going to get? We already have that, and it's cheaper, younger, with a big upside.

sox1970
12-16-2006, 04:32 PM
There's audio from KW on whitesox.com.

Basically said he wants to talk to Sisco and ask him how he sees his future. If he wants to be a starter, there's a chance he'll start in Charlotte. Otherwise, he likes him in the pen.

Also said a smaller move would probably be announced later today. Probably wouldn't be a big move to the public, but he likes it. So stay tuned....I'm guessing backup catcher.

oeo
12-16-2006, 04:36 PM
Personally, I would have liked us to throw some money into the pen this year at a guy like Jamie Walker. Good solid Lefty, wouldnt have broke the bank. Just, my thinking is, the Pen more then any other position cost us the playoffs (Starters a close 2nd). Why then head into the following season by replacing the question marks with other question marks. In a way, the same knocks on Cotts are the same on Sisco (Location of pitches, Easily Rattled, no trust in his stuff).

I in no way mind gambling on guys here and there, but we really need all these guys to pan out if we are going to return to the promise land.

This current bullpen > the bullpen in 2005.

TheVulture
12-16-2006, 04:45 PM
Do the Royals have an opening at 1B? I thought Doug Mentkiewicz was their everyday first baseman.


I'd rather have Ross in there than Mentkiewicz any day. It's sad to see the sweetest swing on the Sox go, but I suppose if Sisco can get the job done, it's a good move.

jenn2080
12-16-2006, 04:51 PM
Someone needs to get to Jenn2080's home real quick with a suicide prevention kit.......


I wonder how skottyj is taking this news?

TheVulture
12-16-2006, 04:54 PM
Let's see, in the last 6 months KW traded Gload, Tyler Lumsden and Daniel Cortes to KC for MacDougal and Sisco. Thanks for the the young power arms, KC.

kittle42
12-16-2006, 05:04 PM
I hate making comments like this, but I think it's actually true here...anyone who doesn't think this is a good (and really, actually great) trade doesn't understand baseball too well. I'd cite the reasons, but many prior posters in this thread have done so already. Gload = 30 year-old journeyman and last player off the bench. Sisco = project, but one with a huge upside.

No-brainer. KC sucks.

DaleJRFan
12-16-2006, 05:05 PM
Gload was definitely one of my favorites on the Sox. This really sucks. I'll never forget seeing his grand slam in the 9th against the Orioles this past summer. First grand slam I had ever seen in person. :cool:

Anyway, I just hope that KW knows what the hell he is doing. These trades are starting to make him look bad... but I'm willing to give it a shot if he has good reasons.

One ex-Cub for another...

This trade blows. Sisco sucks. So what if he's 23, he'll throw meatballs at 24, 25 and beyond. He can't get lefties out, his velocity was way down in 06, I don't see how this helps the team. Last year, Sisco would have been one of the 15 loogy NRI invites to ST.

Why does KW keep trading for "young pitchers with upside" who have proven they can't get MLB hitters out?? The line at Dr Cooper's office is going to be really ****ing long in Spring Training and during the season.

Here's an idea Kenny, trade for a player or a pitcher who is already good and doesn't need coaching - instead of trading for "upside" and hoping they "get it at some point".

So far this off season:
Sisco replaces Cotts
McCarthy replaces Garcia
Floyd replaces McCarthy (BP)
Aardsma replaces Politte/Hermanson

Ugh.

If the priority was bullpen, the priority must have been pretty damn low. Aardsma? Sisco? Gavin ****ing Floyd? This is all a bad dream, right??

Call me a dark cloud... or maybe I just don't get it, but I don't see where this is going. The team got younger this off-season, but I don't know how it the moves make the team better.

oeo
12-16-2006, 05:11 PM
One ex-Cub for another...

This trade blows. Sisco sucks. So what if he's 23, he'll throw meatballs at 24, 25 and beyond. He can't get lefties out, his velocity was way down in 06, I don't see how this helps the team. Last year, Sisco would have been one of the 15 loogy NRI invites to ST.

Why does KW keep trading for "young pitchers with upside" who have proven they can't get MLB hitters out?? The line at Dr Cooper's office is going to be really ****ing long in Spring Training and during the season.

Here's an idea Kenny, trade for a player or a pitcher who is already good and doesn't need coaching - instead of trading for "upside" and hoping they "get it at some point".

So far this off season:
Sisco replaces Cotts
McCarthy replaces Garcia
Floyd replaces McCarthy (BP)
Aardsma replaces Politte/Hermanson

Ugh.

If the priority was bullpen, the priority must have been pretty damn low. Aardsma? Sisco? Gavin ****ing Floyd? This is all a bad dream, right??

Call me a dark cloud... or maybe I just don't get it, but I don't see where this is going. The team got younger this off-season, but I don't know how it the moves make the team better.

We traded Neal Cotts and Ross Gload, *****...

And actually, MacDougal has the Politte/Hermanson role. How do you even know Aardsma's role at this point?

ilsox7
12-16-2006, 05:13 PM
I hate making comments like this, but I think it's actually true here...anyone who doesn't think this is a good (and really, actually great) trade doesn't understand baseball too well. I'd cite the reasons, but many prior posters in this thread have done so already. Gload = 30 year-old journeyman and last player off the bench. Sisco = project, but one with a huge upside.

No-brainer. KC sucks.

Well said. Generally, such sweeping generalizations about baseball knowledge based on message board postings are not appropriate, but there are exceptions. This is one of them. We traded a guy who got 5 AB's in April last year for a young, left-handed pitcher with a high ceiling. Gload was never going to be anything more on the Sox than he was last year. To get something of potential value for him amazes me.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 05:15 PM
One ex-Cub for another...

This trade blows. Sisco sucks. So what if he's 23, he'll throw meatballs at 24, 25 and beyond. He can't get lefties out, his velocity was way down in 06, I don't see how this helps the team. Last year, Sisco would have been one of the 15 loogy NRI invites to ST.

Why does KW keep trading for "young pitchers with upside" who have proven they can't get MLB hitters out?? The line at Dr Cooper's office is going to be really ****ing long in Spring Training and during the season.

Here's an idea Kenny, trade for a player or a pitcher who is already good and doesn't need coaching - instead of trading for "upside" and hoping they "get it at some point".

So far this off season:
Sisco replaces Cotts
McCarthy replaces Garcia
Floyd replaces McCarthy (BP)
Aardsma replaces Politte/Hermanson

Ugh.

If the priority was bullpen, the priority must have been pretty damn low. Aardsma? Sisco? Gavin ****ing Floyd? This is all a bad dream, right??

Call me a dark cloud... or maybe I just don't get it, but I don't see where this is going. The team got younger this off-season, but I don't know how it the moves make the team better.

you mean like thornton and jenks?

Flight #24
12-16-2006, 05:16 PM
Love love love this move. Sisco is not that far removed from a)being IIRC a top tier pitching prospect, LH with great stuff to boot (and at 6'9", with the height advantage). And while I like Gload, the Sox lose nothing whatsoever by replacing him with Mack (and it can be argued that they gain something from flexibility to add a true OF who can backup CF).

There are 2 slots in the 'pen (I think Haeger's a lock). There's vets still out there that can be had at reasonable prices, and I wouldn't be surprised if one's picked up. And the Sox now have a bunch of power arms to look at for the 1-2 roles that are left: Sisco, Aardsma, Floyd, with Gio, Tracey, Logan in the wings.

And going forward, the Sox have really restocked the system with pitching: Gio, Broadway, Sisco, Floyd, McCulloch, Tracey. Yes, Coop's going to be busy, but realistically, he only needs to "work" on 2 guys. It's just a quesition of figuring out which 2, and there's safety in numbers from that standpoint.

And all without IMO reducing the chances of the '07 team to compete. Way to go KW!

skottyj242
12-16-2006, 05:17 PM
I went to Grandstands and bought a Royals hat.:angry: :angry: :angry:


Good Luck Ross in KC. I am sure you will be bringing sexy back out there for sure.

santo=dorf
12-16-2006, 05:24 PM
No references to the Thong Song yet? :D:

I hate making comments like this, but I think it's actually true here...anyone who doesn't think this is a good (and really, actually great) trade doesn't understand baseball too well. I'd cite the reasons, but many prior posters in this thread have done so already. Gload = 30 year-old journeyman and last player off the bench. Sisco = project, but one with a huge upside.

No-brainer. KC sucks.
I wanted to say the same thing too, but didn't want to come off as being too mean.

And if anyone responds with "well I guess the KC organization doesn't understand baseball," then the answer is, yes, KC doesn't have a clue.

you mean like thornton and jenks?
Count Marte before the 2002 season as well.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 05:28 PM
No references to the Thong Song yet? :D:


I wanted to say the same thing too, but didn't want to come off as being too mean.

And if anyone responds with "well I guess the KC organization doesn't understand baseball," then the answer is, yes, KC doesn't have a clue.


Count Marte before the 2002 season as well.

The fact of the matter is, Kenny hasn't really gone after all that many "high potential, ****ty output" players before this year...but the ones he has have generally had a high success rate...either producing on the field or getting flipped for mlb talent.

JermaineDye05
12-16-2006, 05:28 PM
interesting quote from Kenny during his conference call. One reporter asked if this was it for moves or if something else was on the horizon and Kenny said that the White Sox will probably be making another announcement later today of another move "it will be considered a smaller move for the public...but a bigger move internally" I'm just curious as to what it could be, another edition to the bench such as darin erstad or someone else.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 05:31 PM
interesting quote from Kenny during his conference call. One reporter asked if this was it for moves or if something else was on the horizon and Kenny said that the White Sox will probably be making another announcement later today of another move "it will be considered a smaller move for the public...but a bigger move internally" I'm just curious as to what it could be, another edition to the bench such as darin erstad or someone else.

ugh I'm sick of hearing about erstad and his ****ing punting

TheOldRoman
12-16-2006, 05:32 PM
THIS trade makes him look bad?

This is a very low risk extremely high reward move by KW.

Yes, Gload was a solid contributor off the bench, but his ABs are always going to be limited by the fact that he can't play any position but 1B.

Meanwhile Sisco, although a risky commodity, is a very hard throwing lefty one year removed from a solid season. Oh, and he's only 23.

Worst case: he doesn't pan out, and we lose a bench player

Best case: we give up a guy who'll hit .270 with 15 HR (best case) next year at a position we have no use for for a guy who could be this year's thornton
I agree with everything you said except for that. I am completely confident that Ross will hit .300. I see him as a faster Sean Casey. He might not be a great player, but he can hit, and can contribute.

As much as I love Ross, this trade was an absolute steal. Not just because it gets us another lefty (who, although he is a project, has a super-high ceiling), but it creates room for a backup CF. KW rules. He will bring in a backup CF who hits right, and it will allow us to keep Mack's bat on the bench, instead of trading him to make room for the backup CF.

I hope KW goes after Brady Clark. He is fast (though he doesn't steal), he can play all three OF positions, and he gets on base a lot, so he could step in and bat leadoff if Pods sucks. Also, the Brewers are shopping him. Go get 'em, Ken.

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 05:54 PM
Because of all the fireballers we have now Haegar has to be in the bullpen next season. Imagine Sisco or Aardsma pitching the 6th, Haegar the 7th then Thornton or Macdougal in the 8th followed by Jenks to close it for the 9th. Talk about screwing with hitters heads and eyes. We can literally turn games into 5 innings.

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 05:56 PM
I agree with everything you said except for that. I am completely confident that Ross will hit .300. I see him as a faster Sean Casey. He might not be a great player, but he can hit, and can contribute.

As much as I love Ross, this trade was an absolute steal. Not just because it gets us another lefty (who, although he is a project, has a super-high ceiling), but it creates room for a backup CF. KW rules. He will bring in a backup CF who hits right, and it will allow us to keep Mack's bat on the bench, instead of trading him to make room for the backup CF.

I hope KW goes after Brady Clark. He is fast (though he doesn't steal), he can play all three OF positions, and he gets on base a lot, so he could step in and bat leadoff if Pods sucks. Also, the Brewers are shopping him. Go get 'em, Ken.
Not that i'm a big fan of him but what about Preston Wilson as a 4th outfielder if they don't want to go with one of the kids?

pearso66
12-16-2006, 05:57 PM
I think the main thing people are missing, is if you want to go out and get the "proven" bullpen arms, KW will have to give up a lot more than he has for his projects. First, Proven guys either demand a lot of money, or a lot of value in return, and not Cotts or Gload. Second, there isn't really any such thing as a sure thing. I've seen guys a million times be outstanding one year, and completely suck the next year, Neal Cotts, I'm looking in your direction.

And to the person comparing Sisco to Cotts, Cotts had 1 pitch, and he lost confidence in it. Sisco has I believe at least 3 plus pitches. While he may not have the confidence yet, at least he has the ability. I liked Cotts but all hitters had to do was sit on his one pitch and tee off, and they did.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-16-2006, 06:09 PM
Kenny said that the White Sox will probably be making another announcement later today of another move "it will be considered a smaller move for the public...but a bigger move internally"

I hope it's that Alomar is retiring and taking a job as coach with the Sox. I don't want to see him as the backup catcher.

jandm859
12-16-2006, 06:20 PM
Well said. This trade is fantastic for us, IMO. Hell, I like the Garcia trade, too (one of a few around here who does). I think KW is doing a good job of stockpiling live arms. Sure, they all won't work out, but odds are some will.

Sisco is young, talented, and one year removed from a pretty solid year. Ross Gload is a 30 year old utility player. This had to be as no-brainer as they come.

you like trading proven major league players for a hope and a prayer? wow

getonbckthr
12-16-2006, 06:21 PM
you like trading proven major league players for a hope and a prayer? wow
What has Gload proved? That he can keep the bench warm and mis-play flyballs?

ilsox7
12-16-2006, 06:24 PM
What has Gload proved? That he can keep the bench warm and mis-play flyballs?

Well, you forget he has 494 CAREER AB's. You know, less than the amount most players have in a single season. :cool:

If that's not a proven major leaguer, I don't know what is!

jabrch
12-16-2006, 07:33 PM
Gload was probably the best bench player we ever had. Sisco better be good...

Gload will have no more impact on this team than Mack or Rogowski as a backup 1B. He was a terrible defensive OF. I liked Ross, but he was nothing more than a bench player for us. Sisco has loads of upside - or he could suck. Either way, it wasn't a bad trade since Gload has very little value. The upside alone is well worth the risk that Sisco materializes to what he can be.

That's another RP who smokes it in there in the high 90s and can bring it over 100mph.

champagne030
12-16-2006, 07:40 PM
What's proven about him? That you don't know what you're going to get? We already have that, and it's cheaper, younger, with a big upside.

Well, Riske hasn't had an ERA above 4 in 5 years, gives up less hits that innings pitched.....I know what I'm going to get - An ERA of 3.3 - 4.0. That's a lot better than Sisco/Floyd at 7.

This current bullpen > the bullpen in 2005.

In retrospect, maybe. I'd say the potential is better. I would say, if we don't add anyone, I will not feel better going into '07 than I did '06. Actually, I feel worse.

you mean like thornton and jenks?

Thornton was never as bad as Sisco and Jenks dominated one season before KW acquired him.



Count Marte before the 2002 season as well.

I didn't follow Marte before he came to the Sox, but I'll guess he didn't competely suck before we got him.....Yep, just checked the stats. Nothing close to a Floyd/Sisco season.

Actually, I'm in favor of the trade. I just think that Sisco is another arm to throw into a tryout for the last spot. And that spot should include Floyd, Aardsma, Logan, ect. KW - go get us two guys who have been successful recently at the MLB. Or at least at the MiLB level.

jabrch
12-16-2006, 07:40 PM
Given the silly amounts of money teams are paying for relievers, adding a potentially very tough lefty for a guy who we don't really have a spot for, and don't get many ABs for, and who is fairly easily replaceable internally is a great deal.

Bye Ross. Beat ya later...

NDSox12
12-16-2006, 07:46 PM
Thornton was never as bad as Sisco and Jenks dominated one season before KW acquired him.


Jenks dominated one season... in AA? I don't think that counts.

goon
12-16-2006, 07:55 PM
Thornton was never as bad as Sisco and Jenks dominated one season before KW acquired him.



right... you're basing this off his two years in the majors? seems to me thornton's best year is pretty much identical to sisco's best year. i don't know how you can summarize the guy's entire career after two seasons. obviously he had a ****ty 2006, but you're ignoring what he did in 2005 and he's only 23, it's not like his best years are behind him or something.

this is a good trade.

thedudeabides
12-16-2006, 08:02 PM
Because of all the fireballers we have now Haegar has to be in the bullpen next season. Imagine Sisco or Aardsma pitching the 6th, Haegar the 7th then Thornton or Macdougal in the 8th followed by Jenks to close it for the 9th. Talk about screwing with hitters heads and eyes. We can literally turn games into 5 innings.

And screwing with our catchers eyes. I still have my doubts if this would work.

Britt Burns
12-16-2006, 08:20 PM
I like this trade...lots of upside for Sisco. Even if he flops there are a lot of Ross Gloads out there...

Brian26
12-16-2006, 08:28 PM
We're a long way from Haeger being the "shoo-in," as we are from Sisco being guaranteed the spot IMO.

There's also Floyd, Tracey, Logan, Gio Gonzalez and Corwin Malone, maybe even Oneli Perez, that could emerge.

Corwin Malone? Maybe if you're looking at a 2003 media guide. Malone will never make the Sox major league roster.

JB98
12-16-2006, 08:37 PM
Well, you forget he has 494 CAREER AB's. You know, less than the amount most players have in a single season. :cool:

If that's not a proven major leaguer, I don't know what is!


I'm with you. I don't have anything against Ross Gload. He was a decent contributor off the bench both in 2004 and in 2006. But I hate the FORG, forever preaching that Ross would go .300/30/100 if the White Sox would just give him a chance to play every day.

The first time Konerko or Thome goes in a slump in 2007, you can bet the FORG will be back, fuming at KW for letting Ross go. It really irritated me last season when people wanted to bench one of those two great hitters to play journeyman Ross.

Myrtle72
12-16-2006, 08:39 PM
I'm with you. I don't have anything against Ross Gload. He was a decent contributor off the bench both in 2004 and in 2006. But I hate the FORG, forever preaching that Ross would go .300/30/100 if the White Sox would just give him a chance to play every day.

The first time Konerko or Thome goes in a slump in 2007, you can bet the FORG will be back, fuming at KW for letting Ross go. It really irritated me last season when people wanted to bench one of those two great hitters to play journeyman Ross.

I still firmly believe that Ross is an awesome player because he doesn't play every day. I'm definitely a Gload fan, but I didn't want to see the guy start every day for the Sox. I honestly think the quality of his game will decrease if he becomes a starter (or something close to it). He's good at what he does, don't fix something that isn't broken.

JB98
12-16-2006, 08:49 PM
I still firmly believe that Ross is an awesome player because he doesn't play every day. I'm definitely a Gload fan, but I didn't want to see the guy start every day for the Sox. I honestly think the quality of his game will decrease if he becomes a starter (or something close to it). He's good at what he does, don't fix something that isn't broken.

But would you not agree that we need a legitimate outfielder for our bench? Gload, Cintron, Ozuna and even Mackowiak have all spent the majority of their careers playing infield. We needed to clear out one of those guys, so we can add an outfielder-to-be-named later to our bench. It just so happens the guy they chose to clear out is Ross. I, for one, am glad that we got a pitcher with some upside in exchange for the 24th or 25th man on our roster.

ilsox7
12-16-2006, 08:52 PM
I'm with you. I don't have anything against Ross Gload. He was a decent contributor off the bench both in 2004 and in 2006. But I hate the FORG, forever preaching that Ross would go .300/30/100 if the White Sox would just give him a chance to play every day.

The first time Konerko or Thome goes in a slump in 2007, you can bet the FORG will be back, fuming at KW for letting Ross go. It really irritated me last season when people wanted to bench one of those two great hitters to play journeyman Ross.

I hear ya. I have absolutely nothing against Ross. By all accounts he was a great teammate and always did the right thing. But on this team, he was behind 2 All-Stars. He had no future here. He was a spare part, at best. Factor in his age and his value seemed to be marginal at best. That is why I am so surprised KC would give up a young arm with a high ceiling.

3rd_Gen_Sox_Fan
12-16-2006, 09:13 PM
Applaud is not the word. I will be wearing a KC Ross Gload shirt for every KC game.
Ha, I won't go this far, but I always loved having Ross on the team, and I always wished there was a way to get him some more PT. As much as I was a huge Ross Gload fan I always thought he deserved to go somewhere where he could play everyday. Hopefully this gives him that. I'll always root for Ross Gload.

HomeFish
12-16-2006, 09:14 PM
There goes the most overrated bench player I've ever seen while following this team.

Ross Gload was a solid late-inning replacement at 1B, but that's it. He was terrible in the outfield. He was a hacker at the plate who would never hit for average if he played full time. I love that we got a living, breathing, left-handed pitcher in exchange for him.

1917
12-16-2006, 09:18 PM
Does it concern anyone that 2 of our bullpen members are former memebers of the 100 loss plus Royals? But I tell you what, Sisco and Jenks make one hell of an Offensive line!! In all seriousness, I like the trade, Sisco can be outstanding under Coop and Gload is a career backup, even in KC....but who will KW get to replace Gload..u can't overplay Thome with his back...stand by

HomeFish
12-16-2006, 09:23 PM
Does it concern anyone that 2 of our bullpen members are former memebers of the 100 loss plus Royals? But I tell you what, Sisco and Jenks make one hell of an Offensive line!! In all seriousness, I like the trade, Sisco can be outstanding under Coop and Gload is a career backup, even in KC....but who will KW get to replace Gload..u can't overplay Thome with his back...stand by

Can Mackowiak play 1B?

Myrtle72
12-16-2006, 09:29 PM
Does it concern anyone that 2 of our bullpen members are former memebers of the 100 loss plus Royals?

Nah, I'm not worried about that. They've got some good coaches helping them out now, anyway. I'd rather look at their personal stats than the team they were previously on.

Slats
12-16-2006, 09:34 PM
Love the trade but I know every time I hear Sisco on the public address, I'm going to flashback to WGN and these guys

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/55/04/228408-movie.jpg-movie-resized200.jpg

(was that show on like 100 times every weekend or what?)

KRS1
12-16-2006, 09:40 PM
Love the trade but I know every time I hear Sisco on the public address, I'm going to flashback to WGN and these guys

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/55/04/228408-movie.jpg-movie-resized200.jpg

(was that show on like 100 times every weekend or what?)


Thats the first thing I think of when I hear his name too. My grandpa is a huge fan of all the old western serials, and this one may be his favorite. I brought the intro theme song up in my earlier post in this thread. Not to mention that's what Hawks been calling him the last two seasons.

oeo
12-16-2006, 10:04 PM
Well, Riske hasn't had an ERA above 4 in 5 years, gives up less hits that innings pitched.....I know what I'm going to get - An ERA of 3.3 - 4.0. That's a lot better than Sisco/Floyd at 7.

This was in response to saying you'd like Mesa. He's the 40-year-old pitcher with an ERA over 4...

In retrospect, maybe. I'd say the potential is better. I would say, if we don't add anyone, I will not feel better going into '07 than I did '06. Actually, I feel worse.

You don't think we didn't have the same questionmarks in 2005?
-Cotts and Politte were both very mediocre...who saw those seasons coming?
-Shingo? Bobby is an established closer, Shingo never was.
-Hermanson? Who is this guy? What is he going to do for us?
-Marte was probably our best guy in the pen going into 2005...and we all know how that turned out.
-Vizcaino had a very mediocre career in the NL, what was he going to bring?

I don't get what the difference is...? We have the same question marks as 2005, except, those veterans, so that's okay? Our bullpen was worse in 2005, for some reason the World Series isn't showing you how many flaws there were. The flaws showed in 2006, and that in no way made them a good set of relievers in 2005, they merely had career seasons.

Thornton was never as bad as Sisco and Jenks dominated one season before KW acquired him.

Thornton may not have had a 7 ERA, but he was pretty bad. Thornton has also has never had a season like Sisco's 2005, including last year.

I didn't follow Marte before he came to the Sox, but I'll guess he didn't competely suck before we got him.....Yep, just checked the stats. Nothing close to a Floyd/Sisco season.

Like I said before, Marte was one of the top lefty-relievers a few years ago. But things change...

Are you forgetting that Floyd and Sisco are 24 and 23, respectively? *****, dude.

JB98
12-16-2006, 10:04 PM
Does it concern anyone that 2 of our bullpen members are former memebers of the 100 loss plus Royals? But I tell you what, Sisco and Jenks make one hell of an Offensive line!! In all seriousness, I like the trade, Sisco can be outstanding under Coop and Gload is a career backup, even in KC....but who will KW get to replace Gload..u can't overplay Thome with his back...stand by

No, it doesn't concern me in the least. The Royals weren't losing 100 games because of MacDougal and Sisco. MacDougal, when healthy, has always been a solid reliever. He was solid for us the second half last year. Sisco was a Rule 5 draftee. He had to stay on the big-league roster, so maybe he was rushed into a position he wasn't ready for. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially since he's only 23 and I've been impressed with his stuff when I've seen him pitch against the Sox.

Mackowiak is now the backup to Thome. Offensively, Ross and Mack are pretty similar players. Ross hits for a bit higher average, but Mack has a bit more speed.

oeo
12-16-2006, 10:10 PM
Does it concern anyone that 2 of our bullpen members are former memebers of the 100 loss plus Royals? But I tell you what, Sisco and Jenks make one hell of an Offensive line!! In all seriousness, I like the trade, Sisco can be outstanding under Coop and Gload is a career backup, even in KC....but who will KW get to replace Gload..u can't overplay Thome with his back...stand by

Just because the Royals suck, doesn't mean they don't have any talent. Individual talent doesn't equal success, so I'll happily take their young talent. Hey, if they want to give us David DeJesus...please, please do so. :D:

JB98
12-16-2006, 10:10 PM
Can Mackowiak play 1B?

Why not? He has played a lot of third base in his career. If you can play third, you can play first.

As long as Paulie stays healthy, there isn't much reason to worry. If backup 1B is our biggest concern going into the season, I'm going to be very happy.

PKalltheway
12-16-2006, 10:22 PM
Gload was probably the best bench player we ever had. Sisco better be good...
Pablo Ozuna is a better player off the bench I think...

Bucky F. Dent
12-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Good deal, IMHO.

We need a lefty in the pen. Let Coop work with the kid and get his head straight.

santo=dorf
12-16-2006, 10:28 PM
Can Mackowiak play 1B?
He's played a few innings there with the Pirates, but if Timo could do it, YOU can do it.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/uploads/post-1237-1166325812.jpg

JB98
12-16-2006, 10:40 PM
Pablo Ozuna is a better player off the bench I think...

No question. Gload was the fourth-best player on our bench last year. I'd rather have Cintron and Mackowiak too. That's why Ross was the one who got traded.

HomeFish
12-16-2006, 10:41 PM
Anyone else remember that one time against Toronto that Ross Gload struck out on three consecutive pitches...that were in the dirt?

This trade makes me extremely happy.

WizardsofOzzie
12-16-2006, 10:49 PM
He's played a few innings there with the Pirates, but if Timo could do it, YOU can do it.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/uploads/post-1237-1166325812.jpg
I love it! :bandance: :bandance:

thomas35forever
12-16-2006, 11:19 PM
He's played a few innings there with the Pirates, but if Timo could do it, YOU can do it.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/uploads/post-1237-1166325812.jpg
This reminds me of the "Line Shot" campaign the Sox used back in '98.

SBSoxFan
12-16-2006, 11:59 PM
Why is everyone so convinced Cisco is going to be in the Sox' pen in '07? From what KW said, if Cisco is interested in being a starter, he'll be in AAA.

JB98
12-17-2006, 12:01 AM
Why is everyone so convinced Cisco is going to be in the Sox' pen in '07? From what KW said, if Cisco is interested in being a starter, he'll be in AAA.

We'll take the best 11. If the kid looks like he's one of our best 11 coming out of spring training, he'll be in the bullpen.

Bill Naharodny
12-17-2006, 12:25 AM
Sisco has a good arm. One thing I'll miss about Gload is that he didn't swing for the fences -- that was a good counterpoint to some of our other free-swinging guys.

Tragg
12-17-2006, 12:54 AM
Why is everyone so convinced Cisco is going to be in the Sox' pen in '07? From what KW said, if Cisco is interested in being a starter, he'll be in AAA.
I'm on board with that - let Coop work with him in the spring, send him down for a year and see what we have.

This is where Williams is at his best - these small deals - he really has no peer.
Blockbuster trades, on the other hand......

Re Gload, I agree with the comment above that he didn't swing for the fences....and this team needs more hitters with patience...but, he was deep on our bench and getting older.

caulfield12
12-17-2006, 12:58 AM
I'm on board with that - let Coop work with him in the spring, send him down for a year and see what we have.

This is where Williams is at his best - these small deals - he really has no peer.
Blockbuster trades, on the other hand......

Re Gload, I agree with the comment above that he didn't swing for the fences....and this team needs more hitters with patience...but, he was deep on our bench and getting older.


Which blockbuster trades has he messed up besides the Ritchie one?

Vazquez? Garcia?

The jury's still far from out on these last two. Other than that, the only "blockbuster" bust he has to his credit is Foulke for Koch, but that still netted us a key bullpen piece....whereas we weren't going to keep Foulke in all likelihood.

Tragg
12-17-2006, 01:10 AM
Which blockbuster trades has he messed up besides the Ritchie one?

Vazquez? Garcia?

The jury's still far from out on these last two. Other than that, the only "blockbuster" bust he has to his credit is Foulke for Koch, but that still netted us a key bullpen piece....whereas we weren't going to keep Foulke in all likelihood.

I didn't say he messed any up...I said his small deals for pitchers are brilliant and his blockbusters aren't.

Now, to answer you question, Garcia is the only major deal for a pitcher that made us better.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-17-2006, 01:14 AM
So where exactly is this "announcement" that KW mentioned at the end of the conference call? :?: I haven't heard anything.

3rd_Gen_Sox_Fan
12-17-2006, 01:19 AM
-Shingo? Bobby is an established closer, Shingo never was.

I'm sorry, I gotta argue with this one. Shingo was more of an established closer than Jenks was when he joined the Sox. Shingo was the all time career saves leader in Japan. Jenks had a good year as a closer in AA. I'm not going to argue with who turned out better for us, we all know that, but Shingo had a record as a closer, albeit not in the big leagues.

oeo
12-17-2006, 01:24 AM
I'm sorry, I gotta argue with this one. Shingo was more of an established closer than Jenks was when he joined the Sox. Shingo was the all time career saves leader in Japan. Jenks had a good year as a closer in AA. I'm not going to argue with who turned out better for us, we all know that, but Shingo had a record as a closer, albeit not in the big leagues.

We're talking going into 2007 vs. going into 2005.

Shingo was questionable going into 2005. He was never an established closer at the major league level, regardless of what he did in Japan. He gave us a good season in 2004, but I think everybody and their brother knew it was going to be hard for his style of pitching to last as a closer.

KRS1
12-17-2006, 02:15 AM
So where exactly is this "announcement" that KW mentioned at the end of the conference call? :?: I haven't heard anything.


Well, he said there "probably be another move later on in the day". Probably can mean a lot of things. Maybe it was an imminent signing that theyve been working on that he thought all the details would be worked out with by the end of the day, maybe it was something else entirely. Could be a small signing like a veteran catcher, a legit 4th OF to compete with Terrero, but I think it might be the signing of Cintron or Crede to avoid arbitration. It would be nice to see Alex get a deal similar to the one we handed out to Rob last offseason(longer would be better). Guess we'll have to wait until tommorow.

fquaye149
12-17-2006, 02:20 AM
Thornton was never as bad as Sisco and Jenks dominated one season before KW acquired him.





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

oh...wait...you're serious?


HAHAHAHAHA

I wonder how many people who post on this boards actually FOLLOW baseball:rolleyes:

fquaye149
12-17-2006, 02:21 AM
Does it concern anyone that 2 of our bullpen members are former memebers of the 100 loss plus Royals? But I tell you what, Sisco and Jenks make one hell of an Offensive line!! In all seriousness, I like the trade, Sisco can be outstanding under Coop and Gload is a career backup, even in KC....but who will KW get to replace Gload..u can't overplay Thome with his back...stand by

No. Why in the **** would it?

How many members of the 100 loss Tigers were also pitchers on the 2006 AL championship team.

*****

itsnotrequired
12-17-2006, 02:22 AM
No. Why in the **** would it?

How many members of the 100 loss Tigers were also pitchers on the 2006 AL championship team.

*****

What this guy said...

Jerome
12-17-2006, 02:36 AM
I really did like Ross Gload, especially when he won rookie of the month that one year, but I think anything that helps the bullpen needs to be done. The only thing that worries me (and it REALLY worries me) is that Thome might not stay as healthy as he did last year and I think Ross was a good fill-in for him. All in all i do like the trade.

QCIASOXFAN
12-17-2006, 02:45 AM
I didn't read any of the thread, nor am I going to, but I won't miss Ross Gload. We got a great bullpen arm in his place and those are the things that we need at this point. I don't think very many people (including myself) cared for him up until his granny in Baltimore.:dunno:

FedEx227
12-17-2006, 04:20 AM
Great trade, pretty excited when I heard about. After seeing Sisco last year against us I immediately thought he was going to be a decent pitcher down the line. Hes got a lively arm, and we didn't give up much for him. Ross was on his way out anyway, I'm more happy for him possibly getting an opportunity to play everyday, which he deserves, but would never get with us.

Grzegorz
12-17-2006, 05:59 AM
I thought I read that KW was going to give Sisco the option of being a reliever or a starter (fourth or fifth paragraph):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16239049/

I'll take the route of assuming Sisco will remain in the bullpen.

I will miss Ross Gload; he proved to be extremely valuable last year from getting on base before AJ's home run against the Cubs to his grand slam against the Orioles which allowed the White Sox to take something positive away from that series.

But, this trade is a good one from a risk/reward standpoint. A reliever should get many more "touches" that impact a game than a bench player (please no one remind me of Mackowiak in center; that was a completely illogical move by an egocentric manager).

Sisco has a chance to impact more games that Gload.

BTW, I believe Gload was more valuable off the bench last year than Ozuna. That is my opinion just based of the defensive capabilities of both players.

It will be interesting to see who the White Sox have tabbed as Konerko's late inning replacement. In my opinion, the team will need a defensive replacement at first and at this point neither Thome or Mackowiak are viable options.

The Dude
12-17-2006, 10:06 AM
I like the trade. You can't ever have enough left handed bullpen guys. Sisco's a good bet to rebound.

I agree. SOme of you people are so attached to certain players it's absolutely insane! Ross is a backup 1st baseman, 3rd DH, and basically a #5 outfielder for this Sox team. He is not going to be missed in production. He has a nice stick, but his D was very suspect with the Sox. I still think ROss will do well getting more playing time in KC and I wish him well.
The upside for Sisco is much higher than an aging Ross.

I hope Gload doesn't turn into a Rowand man love fest!:o::o::o:

The Dude
12-17-2006, 10:09 AM
THIS IS THE WORST ****ING DAY EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am going to be a KC fan everytime they are in town!:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:


I HEART YOU ROSS GLOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, I never knew you were in love with the Ross. I know Skotty was. It'll be ok jenn!:D: This really isn't a bad move for the team at all.

DumpJerry
12-17-2006, 10:13 AM
Why because we traded one former cub for another?:?: I don't get the sarcasm here Dump.
In a slight example of hyperbole, someone who is no longer with us blamed the fiasco at The Urinal in 2004 on Gload. The opinion was not well received here.

INSox56
12-17-2006, 10:48 AM
DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!! Sisco can't throw a friggin strike to save his life. Oh well, good luck Ross, finally getting a starting role and proving doubters wrong.

MRM
12-17-2006, 05:22 PM
Gload was probably the best bench player we ever had.

2nd best. Jerry Hairston was the best. I hate to see Gload go but he deserves to play every day and Sisco has a very live left handed arm. I guess kenny is going to give him a choice to stay in the pen and maybe make the team this year or go to Charlotte and try to become a starter.

oldcomiskey
12-17-2006, 10:52 PM
Gload was probably the best bench player we ever had. Sisco better be good...

I dont know---this is a club that had Jerry Hairston Sr.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-17-2006, 10:58 PM
I dont know---this is a club that had Jerry Hairston Sr.

He was before my time. Born in '89.

TheOldRoman
12-17-2006, 11:16 PM
... but I think everybody and their brother knew it was going to be hard for his style of pitching to last as a closer.
Wrong. Shingo could have stuck around for a while IF HE KEPT THROWING STRIKES. Shingo was never figured out. He wasn't solved. He lost all control in 05, and that is why he is out of the majors. When he is on, he is deadly. However, when he falls behind in the count, and you know a 87 MPH fastball is on its way, he is gonna get killed.

Lprof
12-17-2006, 11:39 PM
We shall find out in 2007. :D:

I like this deal for the White Sox. I also liked the Garcia deal. I have liked just about everything Kenny has done after the Podsednik trade (which I didn't like until Kenny signed Iguchi and AJ with the leftover Carlos Lee money).

Glad to see Kenny is still flying under the radar. :cool:
Why do you like these deals? Because they are bringing us fringe pitchers with ERA's over 7???? Hopefully, Coop will make me eat my words by "Thorntonizing" both of them, but right now it looks to me like Kenny has to fill his bullpen and simply has no place else to go. If he trades Garland, then both these guys can be in the rotation, to replace Freddy and John!!! The new Ken Kravec and Richard Wortham!!:mad:

palehozenychicty
12-17-2006, 11:44 PM
I like the deal, as it is a low-risk, high-reward trade. Typical of Kenny, and has come up gold over the last few years.

jabrch
12-17-2006, 11:46 PM
DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!! Sisco can't throw a friggin strike to save his life.

That's untrue. Not even close.

Oh well, good luck Ross, finally getting a starting role and proving doubters wrong.

That's not true either. Where is he going to start? Sweeney and Sheley will have 1B and DH. Sanders, Dejesus and Gathright have the OF. Gload will remain exactly what he is best at - being a backup.

If Gload played every day, he'd be exposed. He's a nice bench player. That's all.

Other than that, your post was spot on.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 01:19 AM
Why do you like these deals? Because they are bringing us fringe pitchers with ERA's over 7???? Hopefully, Coop will make me eat my words by "Thorntonizing" both of them, but right now it looks to me like Kenny has to fill his bullpen and simply has no place else to go. If he trades Garland, then both these guys can be in the rotation, to replace Freddy and John!!! The new Ken Kravec and Richard Wortham!!:mad:

Do you even ****ing follow MLBaseball?

Floyd and Sisco are 24 and 23 respectively.

They have had one year each with ERA's over 7.

Congratulations. The Tribune, I'm sure, has a spot for you.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 01:21 AM
And by the way: I would just like to point out how poorly it speaks of this fanbase that KW pulled off a deal that almost EVERYONE in the baseball world recognizes as an utter SWINDLING and there are still posters here talking about how Kenny ****ed up.


:redface:I feel like I'm at a Cubs board or something:redface:

SouthSide_HitMen
12-18-2006, 01:42 AM
Why do you like these deals? Because they are bringing us fringe pitchers with ERA's over 7???? Hopefully, Coop will make me eat my words by "Thorntonizing" both of them, but right now it looks to me like Kenny has to fill his bullpen and simply has no place else to go. If he trades Garland, then both these guys can be in the rotation, to replace Freddy and John!!! The new Ken Kravec and Richard Wortham!!:mad:

You do understand that pitchers brought up in their early 20s are:

1. Ahead of the curve - most are wrapping up their collegiate careers or pitching in High A / AA ball.

2. Expected to improve over the next few seasons as they learn their craft, namely how to pitch. Most pitchers can throw hard. Successful pitchers know how to pitch and can throw multiple pitches for strikes. This is why most pitchers start to reach their peak in their late 20s. It takes time. You can't overreact to one bad year.

3. Under the control of the club for their first six years in the majors.

Clubs need to try to win today while also keeping / acquiring enough young prospects to remain competitive in the future. I think Kenny has done a good job restocking the club with pitching prospects to carry us through the end of the decade. A few will be good / very good and a couple will fail.

Sisco, Gonzalez and Floyd are good prospects with a chance to become very good pitchers. If you look at the current roster / salary structure you will find several players earning in between $7 - $10 million a season, a few earning $1 - $4 million and the rest earning the league minimum. The White Sox need to have a number of quality young players earning the minimum in order to succeed. They are not the Yankees and thus cannot sign twenty-five $12 million free agents. If you don't plan ahead you are left overpaying for whatever scraps the market has to offer.

I don't want the White Sox go for broke in 2007 and then suck the rest of the decade. I want them to balance their short term and long term needs which is what Kenny Williams is doing and why I like the trades. Pitching won it for us in 2005. Pitching will be the key in future seasons. The more quality prospects the better.

INSox56
12-18-2006, 10:05 AM
That's untrue. Not even close.


Sorry, I don't usually follow pitchers from other teams when they pitch against other teams. vs. CWS: 15 IP, 23 H, 10 R, 11BB.

I don't hate the trade, I just don't like seeing Ross go. Either way against our team Sisco has not pitched well. 11BB against us is pretty bad.

rdivaldi
12-18-2006, 10:15 AM
If he trades Garland, then both these guys can be in the rotation, to replace Freddy and John!!! The new Ken Kravec and Richard Wortham!!:mad:

I heard we have this new guy named Brandon McCarthy. Anyone know if he can start?

skottyj242
12-18-2006, 10:18 AM
I will miss Ross. Go Ross for the nine games they come next year.

barney27
12-18-2006, 10:23 AM
Anybody know the scoop on why he struggled so badly last year?
Tends to get behind hitters due to bad mechanics. Overthrows the ball at times which leads his fastball to flatten out a bit. Has "A" stuff though. Great trade for Kenny and the Sox. Gload was a much loved player by me and many other Sox fans, but this move is a no-brainer. Cooper will fix this guy, gives Sox another power arm.

RowanDye
12-18-2006, 10:48 AM
That's not true either. Where is he going to start? Sweeney and Sheley will have 1B and DH. Sanders, Dejesus and Gathright have the OF. Gload will remain exactly what he is best at - being a backup.

If Gload played every day, he'd be exposed. He's a nice bench player. That's all.


Per Dayton Moore: "Other than Shealy, we donít have another first baseman in the organization. (Mike) Sweeney isnít really an option there. (Justin) Huber isnít a guy we feel comfortable with there right now, though we certainly think he can play it.Ē

link (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/baseball/mlb/kansas_city_royals/16257714.htm)

Sounds like Gload won't have a starting role, but I'm thinking he'll get more playing time than he would for the Sox.

kittle42
12-18-2006, 10:51 AM
Sorry, I don't usually follow pitchers from other teams when they pitch against other teams.

So your entire knowledge of any non-Sox player is just what they do against the Sox?

itsnotrequired
12-18-2006, 11:07 AM
So your entire knowledge of any non-Sox player is just what they do against the Sox?

Ryan Howard? Never heard of him...

:redneck

RoobarbPie
12-18-2006, 11:08 AM
I liked this deal a lot. If anyone can straighten this guy out and get his behavior under control, it's the White Sox (* see Jenks, Bobby)

Take this with a grain of salt since it's coming from the geniuses at BP, but they like the deal too and think Sisco just has some dedication lapses from time to time. Apparently he dominated hitters in Mexico, but was sent home for eating tacos on the concourse during a game. (it doesn't appear that they have multiple sources for tacogate)

link (2nd entry from the top): http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?PHPSESSID=24868b1883ef1ebf3795f21cb61a415b

PKalltheway
12-18-2006, 01:07 PM
And by the way: I would just like to point out how poorly it speaks of this fanbase that KW pulled off a deal that almost EVERYONE in the baseball world recognizes as an utter SWINDLING and there are still posters here talking about how Kenny ****ed up.


:redface:I feel like I'm at a Cubs board or something:redface:
Thank you. I don't get why some of these people on here are whining about losing a bench player that wasn't really that great to begin with. Solid late inning defensive replacement at first, but that's about it. He couldn't play anywhere else. He doesn't have the versatility of Alex Cintron, or Pablo Ozuna. I would make this trade tomorrow, next month, and 20 years from now.

Also, count me in as one who thinks that the Freddy Garcia trade wasn't that bad. Kenny, keep it up!:cool:

INSox56
12-18-2006, 01:30 PM
So your entire knowledge of any non-Sox player is just what they do against the Sox?
Oh christ, gmab. I do like to enjoy life, and can't spend all my days looking at other players' stats. So yes, ON AVERAGE (meaning people that aren't key players on another team), I don't pay attention to many other people's stats outside of who plays against us. I'd seen him play against us and not do so hot at all. I wouldn't say the same thing if we traded for, christ, bubba crosby or some **** cuz I hadn't seen him play enough to make that kind of judgement.

How bout we jump down a few more ppl's throats for not paying attention to every player's stats, shall we? :rolleyes:

...and no, players like RYAN HOWARD would fit into the "key player" category....

maurice
12-18-2006, 04:27 PM
Awesome move.

Thanks for the memories, Ross, but we didn't have a spot for you, and you netted us another good, young arm. By my count, Sisco is #4 this offseason . . . #5 if you count Vasquez.

We now will have quite a crop of talented guys in their mid-20s and younger between MLB and AA in 2007.
:gulp:

Flight #24
12-18-2006, 04:45 PM
Sorry, I don't usually follow pitchers from other teams when they pitch against other teams. vs. CWS: 15 IP, 23 H, 10 R, 11BB.

I don't hate the trade, I just don't like seeing Ross go. Either way against our team Sisco has not pitched well. 11BB against us is pretty bad.

That's going to make it tough on him during intrasquad outings then....crap!:wink:

Oh christ, gmab. I do like to enjoy life, and can't spend all my days looking at other players' stats. So yes, ON AVERAGE (meaning people that aren't key players on another team), I don't pay attention to many other people's stats outside of who plays against us. I'd seen him play against us and not do so hot at all. I wouldn't say the same thing if we traded for, christ, bubba crosby or some **** cuz I hadn't seen him play enough to make that kind of judgement.

How bout we jump down a few more ppl's throats for not paying attention to every player's stats, shall we? :rolleyes:

...

I think the problem is that you admit that in Crosby's case, you "hadn't seen him play enough", but for some reason Sisco's 15IP is indicative of a complete llack of ability. Most other information about him over his career indicate that he has a significant amount of potential, whereas most everything about Gload and the fact that the Sox have Mackowiak indicate that they Sox lost nothing to acquire that potential.

Tragg
12-18-2006, 05:58 PM
I'll be perfectly happy if they put him in AAA this year and let him work on starting.
Gload is utterly replaceable (don't we have a Gload clone in the high minors anyway?) and we got a young pitcher for him. There's a high upside to this deal, with really no downside at all.

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2006, 06:46 PM
For those worried about the backup first base situation, in the event of a catastropic spate of injuries in which both PK and Thome get hurt, Dye could play first base for a game or two. So could Mackowiak and Sweeney, for that matter. And if anyone needs to go on the DL, Casey Rogowski is in Charlotte.

JB98
12-18-2006, 06:53 PM
I will miss Ross. Go Ross for the nine games they come next year.

I hope Ross goes 0-for-27 with 21 strikeouts in those nine games.

JB98
12-18-2006, 06:57 PM
For those worried about the backup first base situation, in the event of a catastropic spate of injuries in which both PK and Thome get hurt, Dye could play first base for a game or two. So could Mackowiak and Sweeney, for that matter. And if anyone needs to go on the DL, Casey Rogowski is in Charlotte.

Shame on anyone who is worried about the backup first base situation. Of course it's possible PK could get hurt. Anyone can get hurt. But Paulie has a history of giving us 150 games a year, so I feel comfortable gambling that he'll stay healthy in 2007.

Whenever you have a starting player who has a long history of injury, or a player who has a chronic injury situation that he has to play through (see Crede, Joe), that's when you have to make sure a quality backup player is in place. That simply isn't the case for us at 1B.

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2006, 08:26 PM
Shame on anyone who is worried about the backup first base situation. Of course it's possible PK could get hurt. Anyone can get hurt. But Paulie has a history of giving us 150 games a year, so I feel comfortable gambling that he'll stay healthy in 2007.

Whenever you have a starting player who has a long history of injury, or a player who has a chronic injury situation that he has to play through (see Crede, Joe), that's when you have to make sure a quality backup player is in place. That simply isn't the case for us at 1B.

I agree. I was just trying to shoot down an argument against the Gload deal.

Brian26
12-18-2006, 08:32 PM
For those worried about the backup first base situation, in the event of a catastropic spate of injuries in which both PK and Thome get hurt, Dye could play first base for a game or two. So could Mackowiak and Sweeney, for that matter. And if anyone needs to go on the DL, Casey Rogowski is in Charlotte.

Also, first base is the easiest position on the field to play. Any infielder should be able to make the switch to first in an emergency and do fine (Crede or Iguchi).

Lprof
12-18-2006, 11:11 PM
You do understand that pitchers brought up in their early 20s are:

1. Ahead of the curve - most are wrapping up their collegiate careers or pitching in High A / AA ball.

2. Expected to improve over the next few seasons as they learn their craft, namely how to pitch. Most pitchers can throw hard. Successful pitchers know how to pitch and can throw multiple pitches for strikes. This is why most pitchers start to reach their peak in their late 20s. It takes time. You can't overreact to one bad year.

3. Under the control of the club for their first six years in the majors.

Clubs need to try to win today while also keeping / acquiring enough young prospects to remain competitive in the future. I think Kenny has done a good job restocking the club with pitching prospects to carry us through the end of the decade. A few will be good / very good and a couple will fail.

Sisco, Gonzalez and Floyd are good prospects with a chance to become very good pitchers. If you look at the current roster / salary structure you will find several players earning in between $7 - $10 million a season, a few earning $1 - $4 million and the rest earning the league minimum. The White Sox need to have a number of quality young players earning the minimum in order to succeed. They are not the Yankees and thus cannot sign twenty-five $12 million free agents. If you don't plan ahead you are left overpaying for whatever scraps the market has to offer.

I don't want the White Sox go for broke in 2007 and then suck the rest of the decade. I want them to balance their short term and long term needs which is what Kenny Williams is doing and why I like the trades. Pitching won it for us in 2005. Pitching will be the key in future seasons. The more quality prospects the better.
First off, Floyd isn't a "prospect" any more; he is a suspect. Would you say Borchard was still a "prospect" last year at this time? Should Seattle have been excited about getting him? Floyd has been around five years. What you are missing is that we have a relatively small window for this team. Dye and Crede will probably be gone after this year; and how long does Thome have? I am sick of being like we were in the 50s and the 90s--great overall record,but winning almost nothing. Anyway, even from your "take care of the future" perspective, it is not in any sense clear to me we got first rate prospects back in the deal. Gonzales has been traded twice in the last two years; that doesn't happen to top prospects. And did you look at Cisco's inherited runners allowed last year? worst in the league--and on top of that he had an ERA over 7, which doesn't even count the inherited runners. I don't mind trading Freddy; I can't believe we couldn't get a single thing that filled any of our needs or made us a better team with a better chance to win this coming year.

Flight #24
12-18-2006, 11:17 PM
First off, Floyd isn't a "prospect" any more; he is a suspect. Would you say Borchard was still a "prospect" last year at this time? Should Seattle have been excited about getting him? Floyd has been around five years. What you are missing is that we have a relatively small window for this team. Dye and Crede will probably be gone after this year; and how long does Thome have? I am sick of being like we were in the 50s and the 90s--great overall record,but winning almost nothing. Anyway, even from your "take care of the future" perspective, it is not in any sense clear to me we got first rate prospects back in the deal. Gonzales has been traded twice in the last two years; that doesn't happen to top prospects. And did you look at Cisco's inherited runners allowed last year? worst in the league--and on top of that he had an ERA over 7, which doesn't even count the inherited runners. I don't mind trading Freddy; I can't believe we couldn't get a single thing that filled any of our needs or made us a better team with a better chance to win this coming year.

Floyd's all of 24 and is a pitcher. No comparison to Borchard, who was a lot older and as a hitter, expected to develop quicker. Floyd's pitched all of 108 innings in the bigs and he's done at the age of 24?:rolleyes: Borchard's 28, i.e. "in his prime".

Sisco had a horrible year, but he's also extremely young (23), and put up a very strong year in '05. And the only reason he was even in the bigs is because he was a Rule 5 pick and the Royals HAD to keep him on the roster. I love how his '06 determines he's a flop and we cna completely ignore his '05 (or his minor league track record).

ilsox7
12-18-2006, 11:35 PM
Floyd's all of 24 and is a pitcher. No comparison to Borchard, who was a lot older and as a hitter, expected to develop quicker. Floyd's pitched all of 108 innings in the bigs and he's done at the age of 24?:rolleyes: Borchard's 28, i.e. "in his prime".

Sisco had a horrible year, but he's also extremely young (23), and put up a very strong year in '05. And the only reason he was even in the bigs is because he was a Rule 5 pick and the Royals HAD to keep him on the roster. I love how his '06 determines he's a flop and we cna completely ignore his '05 (or his minor league track record).

It's funny how people are analyzing some of these players. A bad year or stats do not always tell the whole story. For fun, people should go look up Bobby Jenks' ERA year-by-year in the minor leagues.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 11:51 PM
It's funny how people are analyzing some of these players. A bad year or stats do not always tell the whole story. For fun, people should go look up Bobby Jenks' ERA year-by-year in the minor leagues.

I would be shocked if anyone has even seen Floyd throw a single pitch.

I know I haven't...but I also know better than to pretend to know something about him based on his stats.

You know, guys, Kenny's got people (including himself) who are paid to have a pretty good idea whether or not Floyd is "done" at the age of 24.

Next time someone posts something making fun of the ****ing Cubs board I'm going to link them directly to this thread:rolleyes:

tomgordon1
12-19-2006, 01:36 AM
I really thought Gload had a chance with us. He has proven himself off the bench and I think they could've placed him in left and Pods in center. Unless Pods improves next year, he will eventually go and then these candidates for center could've moved in. But that isn't the case, of course, Kenny couldn't posit on that idea. But Sisco will definitely help the bullpen. His rookie season was remarkable, posting the 3.11 ERA. Last year, he didn't pitch much thus resulting in a shaky season. But he can change that easily with the Sox. Gload would never be able to start at first or right field, obviously. I hope he can start with KC and be an All-star someday. I think this was a decent move, they cared about his potential, and now he will use it.

But this doesn't neutralize the Garcia trade