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View Full Version : Donnelly to Red Sox for...nothing


Britt Burns
12-15-2006, 03:44 PM
The Angels traded stud reliever Brendan Donnelly to the Red Sox today, which wasn't a big surprise as Halo's had recently bolstered their pen by signing Justin Speier. What is surprising is that the player the Red Sox gave up, minor-leaguer Phil Seibel, is not a top prospect, and in fact missed all of 2005 after undergoing reconstructive elbow surgery. Now Seibel went to the University of Texas, where I went to school, and I still live in Austin (meaning I saw Seibel pitch many times), so I wish him nothing but the best, but he isn't a top-tier prospect. He isn't really a prospect at all anymore, as he is 27 years old!

I don't get it Donnelly has been one of the best middle relievers over the last few years, and he doesn't make a ton of money. His name was tossed out a lot as being a piece of the Crede-Figgins trade rumors, and now Boston gets him for next to nothing. Someone help me figure this out.

fquaye149
12-15-2006, 03:47 PM
he's a scab and a cheater...that might have something to do with it, but who knows

Fenway
12-15-2006, 04:21 PM
something not adding up here

In 2006, the righthander was 6-0 with a 3.94 ERA in 62 appearances with righthanders hitting just .204. He has won his last nine decisions dating back to August 12, 2005, a club record for a reliever.


http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

Donnelly is 10 years older than Seibel but for 2007 looks like Theo got a steal

nodiggity59
12-15-2006, 05:44 PM
something not adding up here



http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

Donnelly is 10 years older than Seibel but for 2007 looks like Theo got a steal

I'm dubious about that. He's slipped a bit each of the last three years and he's old. I doubt he'll be more than a 7th inning guy even in Boston's mediocre BP.

soxinem1
12-15-2006, 07:26 PM
Scab, cheater, maybe, all I know is he is usually nails against the White Sox.

Additionally, I'm not sure I'd replace him with Justin Speier. I'd rather have Donnelly. Plus, he is a former White Sox farmhand.

I think this was a good move for BOS. He's definitely cheap, and they gave up nothing.

DaleJRFan
12-15-2006, 08:19 PM
burried in the MLB news story about the trade is news that the Red Sox signed JC Romero as well. Their bullpen is taking shape. If Romero can regain form, that's a good looking bullpen


Tavaras
Timlin
Okajima
Donnelly
Romero
CLOSER??

a lot of question marks with Tavaras, Timlin, Romero and Okajima, but if all come close to their expectations... that's a pretty good looking bullpen... light years ahead of Delcarmen, Lopez, Hansen, DiNardo, etc of last year's futility.

santo=dorf
12-15-2006, 08:42 PM
Tavarez

Donnelly career against the Sox: 4.32 ERA, 1.56 WHIP, 1-3 (including a JD walk off homer.)

This could be Theo's first good trade in 3 years. :o:

KRS1
12-15-2006, 10:21 PM
Phil Seibel is a guy who could actually be a good pickup. He was a guy who got hurt at 25, an age where A LOT of pitchers break out and into the pro game(which he did, throwing a few innings in Bostons pen). Up until then he was progressing very well, and showing good success. Now he is 27, 100% back from surgery, and he really started off right where he left off before injury by showing he knows how to get guys out and pitch. Id hardly call him nothing. Unproven in the bigs, and coming off a second elbow injury, yes, but he is showing that he can get it done as a lefty out of the pen.

27 is the age where you start to question a players ability if they havent gotten to the majors, but the injury gives him a bit of a mulligan in the age department. Also, the fact that he has shown no sign of slowing down and struggling after coming back from that injury, makes his age even less of a concern.


EDIT: Oh yeah, Donnelly is a shmuck.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 01:40 AM
Scab, cheater, maybe, all I know is he is usually nails against the White Sox.

Additionally, I'm not sure I'd replace him with Justin Speier. I'd rather have Donnelly. Plus, he is a former White Sox farmhand.

I think this was a good move for BOS. He's definitely cheap, and they gave up nothing.

"scab cheater maybe?"

well...he's been ejected for cheating

and if you think the scab thing is debatable, I guess we could go back to 1994 and see if he is a scab.....ok...checking....yep definitely a scab

"scab cheater maybe?"
LOL

Fenway
12-16-2006, 10:00 AM
and if you think the scab thing is debatable, I guess we could go back to 1994 and see if he is a scab.....ok...checking....yep definitely a scab



This whole "scab" issue about the "replacement players" bothers me. ( and I carry a union card ) Most of these players HAD NO CHOICE it was play or be released by the MLB club. The MLB Players Association has does nothing to protect minor league players who suffer from low play in the hope they can make the show. This was not your routine labor conflict and the minor league players were stuck.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 10:54 AM
This whole "scab" issue about the "replacement players" bothers me. ( and I carry a union card ) Most of these players HAD NO CHOICE it was play or be released by the MLB club. The MLB Players Association has does nothing to protect minor league players who suffer from low play in the hope they can make the show. This was not your routine labor conflict and the minor league players were stuck.

be that as it may, the mlbers still see them as scabs.

It was a huge issue in 2002 when Donnelly was pitching out of his mind and everyone wondered if he would make the all star team. Many believed the players wouldn't vote him in because he was a scab.

Fenway
12-16-2006, 11:00 AM
be that as it may, the mlbers still see them as scabs.

It was a huge issue in 2002 when Donnelly was pitching out of his mind and everyone wondered if he would make the all star team. Many believed the players wouldn't vote him in because he was a scab.

But this is not like someone crossing a picket line to work for say UPS. Those workers do have other options. A minor league player is nothing more than a slave to the MLB that owns him. Teams were telling these players play or else be released. If anybody in baseball needs a union it is the minor leaguers.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 11:20 AM
But this is not like someone crossing a picket line to work for say UPS. Those workers do have other options. A minor league player is nothing more than a slave to the MLB that owns him. Teams were telling these players play or else be released. If anybody in baseball needs a union it is the minor leaguers.


right---that all seems very reasonable...but my understanding is that mlbers still look at the replacement players as scabs

Fenway
12-16-2006, 11:34 AM
right---that all seems very reasonable...but my understanding is that mlbers still look at the replacement players as scabs

Modern MLB players do not cover themselves with glory in issues like this. Consider how they have done little to help the players from years ago that were not funded for pensions.

DaleJRFan
12-17-2006, 05:24 AM
Phil Seibel is a guy who ...

...and is also the son of Seibel Systems founder, John Seibel.

Taliesinrk
12-17-2006, 09:41 PM
right---that all seems very reasonable...but my understanding is that mlbers still look at the replacement players as scabs

so just because a group of people believe something means it's true? i don't know all of how it went down in '94, but i do know that most here would have chosen to play if they had their dream opportunity of making the show. if they would have passed it up, they most likely would have watched their dreams go right down the drain...

so you can call them "scabs" all you want, but it seems pretty bush to me if your only rationale is that its what they are because mlbers still look at them that way...

FedEx227
12-17-2006, 11:22 PM
right---that all seems very reasonable...but my understanding is that mlbers still look at the replacement players as scabs

I still don't understand that. What did the scabs do wrong? If any fringe player was ever given the chance to play major league baseball they would do it in a heartbeat.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 01:14 AM
I still don't understand that. What did the scabs do wrong? If any fringe player was ever given the chance to play major league baseball they would do it in a heartbeat.

so just because a group of people believe something means it's true? i don't know all of how it went down in '94, but i do know that most here would have chosen to play if they had their dream opportunity of making the show. if they would have passed it up, they most likely would have watched their dreams go right down the drain...

so you can call them "scabs" all you want, but it seems pretty bush to me if your only rationale is that its what they are because mlbers still look at them that way...

What the **** is the problem here?

The issue is why was Donnelly so cheaply had

well,

1.) He is looked at as a cheater

2.) he is looked at as a scab.

I'm not in a union, so I can't explain to you in very great detail why Union members do not like scabs.

Why don't you crack a ****ing book about it if you're that in the dark as to why Union members might be resentful of people they consider scabs.

GMAMFB:rolleyes:

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 01:16 AM
so just because a group of people believe something means it's true? i don't know all of how it went down in '94, but i do know that most here would have chosen to play if they had their dream opportunity of making the show. if they would have passed it up, they most likely would have watched their dreams go right down the drain...

so you can call them "scabs" all you want, but it seems pretty bush to me if your only rationale is that its what they are because mlbers still look at them that way...

And let me just be clear:

I have no love for the MLB player's union. I don't care who's a scab and of course I would have played pro ball if given a chance.

But he crossed a picket line and baseball players will always consider him a scab, from what I understand.

I'm not making a value judgment (except on the cheating: Donnelly is a dirty ****ing cheater). I'm just pointing out a pretty obvious possibility to address the question: WHY WAS DONNELY SO EASILY GOTTEN

Fenway
12-18-2006, 09:29 AM
But he crossed a picket line and baseball players will always consider him a scab, from what I understand.



Both of the unions I have cards with, NABET and IBEW both refuse to recognize the MLB Players Association as a bonna fide union. The players association has never honered another unions picket line. The reality is the players don't belong to a union, they are members of an exclusive country club.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 10:29 AM
Both of the unions I have cards with, NABET and IBEW both refuse to recognize the MLB Players Association as a bonna fide union. The players association has never honered another unions picket line. The reality is the players don't belong to a union, they are members of an exclusive country club.

could be...but the point is whatever the players union actually is, they don't generally like the players they consider scabs.

Fenway
12-18-2006, 10:44 AM
could be...but the point is whatever the players union actually is, they don't generally like the players they consider scabs.

hang around enough baseball parks and you will find most players can't stand fans either. I will never forget watching Jody Reed transforming from a real nice kid to one of the biggest ********* I have ever met.

Some players are the nicest people in the world however but the vast majority are total jerks.

3 guys that I remember being very nice after technical problems forced us to do a reshoot. Paul Molitor, Nolan Ryan and Derek Jeter. Molitor all these years later really stands out in my mind.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 11:18 AM
hang around enough baseball parks and you will find most players can't stand fans either. I will never forget watching Jody Reed transforming from a real nice kid to one of the biggest ********* I have ever met.

Some players are the nicest people in the world however but the vast majority are total jerks.

3 guys that I remember being very nice after technical problems forced us to do a reshoot. Paul Molitor, Nolan Ryan and Derek Jeter. Molitor all these years later really stands out in my mind.
players are turds, no doubt....but I'm just trying to examine why they gave Donnelly up for essentially nothing

two very real possibilities:

a.) management was salty about his cheating

b.) management recognized a chemistry problem b/c non-scab players did not like playing with a scab

not advocating either position, but the fact is that the Red Sox got a very solid middle reliever for almost nothing and there's got to be some reason behind that.

Ol' No. 2
12-18-2006, 01:26 PM
The "scab" issue is overblown. I doubt very much that was the reason the Angels got rid of him. There were plenty of others who played as replacements and were welcomed by their teams and had long careers, including:

Cory Lidle
Damien Miller
Brian Daubach
Tom Martin
Jamie Walker
Kevin Millar
Rick Reed

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 01:46 PM
The "scab" issue is overblown. I doubt very much that was the reason the Angels got rid of him. There were plenty of others who played as replacements and were welcomed by their teams and had long careers, including:

Cory Lidle
Damien Miller
Brian Daubach
Tom Martin
Jamie Walker
Kevin Millar
Rick Reed

I just remember that it was a huge issue in 2002 so I figured it might still be around these days

meanwhile: how many of those players you listed are journeymen?

Ol' No. 2
12-18-2006, 03:12 PM
I just remember that it was a huge issue in 2002 so I figured it might still be around these days

meanwhile: how many of those players you listed are journeymen?I don't ever remember it being a huge issue beyond occasionally being mentioned that these guys couldn't become MLBPA members and couldn't appear in team photographs. It stands to reason that the players most likely to cross the lines are those that of marginal talent who might not otherwise get a chance.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 03:35 PM
I don't ever remember it being a huge issue beyond occasionally being mentioned that these guys couldn't become MLBPA members and couldn't appear in team photographs. It stands to reason that the players most likely to cross the lines are those that of marginal talent who might not otherwise get a chance.

actually if you'll look earlier in the thread, you'll see I was talking specifically when Donnelly was one of the best middle relievers in baseball in 2002 and was pretty much deserving of an AS spot but many players said they wouldn't vote for him b/c he was a scab (he made the team eventually)


It may or may not be an issue...but here's an article detailing the issue i'm talking about

http://yankeefan.blogspot.com/2003/07/call-it-letdown-after-red-sox-series.html

On my break at work today I grabbed a copy of USA Today Sports McWeekly . . . this letter stuck out to me:It's time we quit glossing over an issue concerning the Major League Baseball Players' Association and the way Angels pitcher Brendan Donnelly repeatedly gets treated as a former replacement player. His name has been left off official World Series merchandise, and now many players refuse to vote for him as an All-Star because of a decision he made during the last players' strike.

Taliesinrk
12-18-2006, 04:33 PM
What the **** is the problem here?

The issue is why was Donnelly so cheaply had

well,

1.) He is looked at as a cheater

2.) he is looked at as a scab.

I'm not in a union, so I can't explain to you in very great detail why Union members do not like scabs.

Why don't you crack a ****ing book about it if you're that in the dark as to why Union members might be resentful of people they consider scabs.

GMAMFB:rolleyes:

Without going into why MLB is not a typical business and how their union is very different from unions that most other citizens either belong to or deal with in everyday life, all i was trying to say is that "scab" is a derogatory term used by players to describe the replacements in '94. I don't need to crack a ****ing book about why they're called that; I just don't think the name is fair. Therefore, for you to claim that that is what they are because a bunch of MLBPA personnel has decided to label them as so, is what I was taking issue with.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 04:36 PM
Without going into why MLB is not a typical business and how their union is very different from unions that most other citizens either belong to or deal with in everyday life, all i was trying to say is that "scab" is a derogatory term used by players to describe the replacements in '94. I don't need to crack a ****ing book about why they're called that; I just don't think the name is fair. Therefore, for you to claim that that is what they are because a bunch of MLBPA personnel has decided to label them as so, is what I was taking issue with.

I can dig what you're shovelling

my point is that many mlbers would call Donnelly a scab, and most likely HAVE

he's a scab to them and that's the point of this thread: why would Donnelly be moved so cheaply

Ol' No. 2
12-18-2006, 04:59 PM
actually if you'll look earlier in the thread, you'll see I was talking specifically when Donnelly was one of the best middle relievers in baseball in 2002 and was pretty much deserving of an AS spot but many players said they wouldn't vote for him b/c he was a scab (he made the team eventually)


It may or may not be an issue...but here's an article detailing the issue i'm talking about

http://yankeefan.blogspot.com/2003/07/call-it-letdown-after-red-sox-series.htmlMeh. I'm sure there are a few players who harbor a grudge. I just don't think there are very many. Lots of replacement players had nice careers without any apparent problems. And I certainly don't think that was a factor in this trade.

Fenway
12-18-2006, 05:07 PM
Meh. I'm sure there are a few players who harbor a grudge. I just don't think there are very many. Lots of replacement players had nice careers without any apparent problems. And I certainly don't think that was a factor in this trade.

case in point Kevin Millar certainly had no problems with other Red Sox players.

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 05:15 PM
Meh. I'm sure there are a few players who harbor a grudge. I just don't think there are very many. Lots of replacement players had nice careers without any apparent problems. And I certainly don't think that was a factor in this trade.

Well one thing you'll notice if you poke around is that Donnelly is one of the few players who played under his own name as a replacement player.

I'm not saying the players don't know who were replacement players or are not, but they problaby appreciate the fact that those who played under assumed names were not as brazen about breaking the strike line

Flight #24
12-18-2006, 05:28 PM
Well one thing you'll notice if you poke around is that Donnelly is one of the few players who played under his own name as a replacement player.

I'm not saying the players don't know who were replacement players or are not, but they problaby appreciate the fact that those who played under assumed names were not as brazen about breaking the strike line


http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/AGE/AGE053/G50-318390.jpg "Brendan Donnelly.....I mean Donald Brennally at your service!"

Ol' No. 2
12-18-2006, 06:33 PM
Well one thing you'll notice if you poke around is that Donnelly is one of the few players who played under his own name as a replacement player.

I'm not saying the players don't know who were replacement players or are not, but they problaby appreciate the fact that those who played under assumed names were not as brazen about breaking the strike lineSeems like a bit of a stretch. I know I wouldn't care about whether he used a fake name or not.

Tragg
12-18-2006, 10:11 PM
I'm not saying the players don't know who were replacement players or are not, but they problaby appreciate the fact that those who played under assumed names were not as brazen about breaking the strike line

I would think the opposite....at least he was open and honest about what he was doing. He's willing to take his medicine like a man, instead of slinking around using fake names.

Taliesinrk
12-18-2006, 10:32 PM
I can dig what you're shovelling

my point is that many mlbers would call Donnelly a scab, and most likely HAVE

he's a scab to them and that's the point of this thread: why would Donnelly be moved so cheaply


deal...

fquaye149
12-18-2006, 11:48 PM
Seems like a bit of a stretch. I know I wouldn't care about whether he used a fake name or not.

yeah but you're rational and the mlb players' union is not.

it just seems to me it was an issue in 2002, and I'm trying to figure out why it was an issue for him and not for others.

Ol' No. 2
12-19-2006, 01:30 AM
yeah but you're rational and the mlb players' union is not.

it just seems to me it was an issue in 2002, and I'm trying to figure out why it was an issue for him and not for others.Or maybe it was overblown into an issue by some writer (not that that's ever happened before:o:).

fquaye149
12-19-2006, 01:31 AM
Or maybe it was overblown into an issue by some writer (not that that's ever happened before:o:).

Well, it probably was overblown...but there were definitely players quoted as saying they wouldn't vote for him...so it's not like the issue was comPLETEly fabricated

Ol' No. 2
12-19-2006, 01:35 AM
Well, it probably was overblown...but there were definitely players quoted as saying they wouldn't vote for him...so it's not like the issue was comPLETEly fabricatedI'm sure there were. Some will inevitably be more militant than others. I just don't see much evidence that it was more than a handful...and to bring it back to the original point, I doubt it had any influence on the Angels' decision to trade him.