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View Full Version : If Gonzalez is in play, KW needs to make an offer


caulfield12
12-12-2006, 10:13 AM
Yanks, Red Sox After Mike Gonzalez

Dave Littlefield should be able to extract a solid young player or two if he wants to trade the Pirates' closer, Mike Gonzalez (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/Mike-Gonzalez.shtml). George King of the New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/12122006/sports/yankees/yanks__bosox_gun_for_buc_yankees_george_king.htm) writes that both the Yankees and Red Sox are interested.
King believes Littlefield might ask for Scott Proctor and Melky Cabrera from the Yankees, while the Red Sox have dangled Coco Crisp. Imagine Gonzalez as the lefty out of the Detroit pen. Gonzo would also be a big help to the Indians, Rangers, Phillies, Cubs, or Giants.
Gonzalez, who turns 29 in May, was told by Pirates doctors (http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17543779&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478568&rfi=6) just before Thanksgiving that he is completely healthy. In 155 career innings, he has a 2.37 ERA, 6.7 H/9, 0.52 HR/9, 4.28 BB/9, and 10.58 K/9. His control has been very shaky in recent years but his unhittable nature has compensated.

from mlbtraderumors.com

By the way, Epstein is nuts if he thinks CoCo Crisp alone will get Gonzalez.

The real question is whether KW would be willing to give up at least two of the four pitchers we have in Gio, Floyd, Broadway and Haeger.

Don't think they would need Fields with their infield being pretty set, unless they also were looking at him as a corner outfielder.

Tragg
12-12-2006, 10:39 AM
Good pitcher. Walks way too many batters. Mediocre whip.
Not worth 2 top pitching prospects.

caulfield12
12-12-2006, 11:02 AM
If Gonzalez was also on the team last year instead of Cotts, would we have made the playoffs?

We'll never know, but the chances would have been greatly increased.

LH RELIEVERS STILL ON THE MARKET
Ray King
Eddie Guardado
Tom Martin (?)
Kent Mercker
Arthur Rhodes
JC Romero
Scott Schoeneweis
Ron Villone

OTHER OPTIONS FOR RH
Brocail
DeJean
Foulke
Franklin
Gagne
Herges
Kolb
Meadows
Percival (isn't he retired?)
Seanez
White, Rick (don't think so!)

Flight #24
12-12-2006, 11:11 AM
The real question is whether KW would be willing to give up at least two of the four pitchers we have in Gio, Floyd, Broadway and Haeger.



Have you not been paying attention the last 2 weeks? SP prices have skyrocketed. Kenny's on record that he needs to make sure they have good, cost-controlled SPs for the future. And you want to deal 2 for a reliever?

You think Kenny would have dealt Freddy Garcia straight up for Mike Gonzalez? :rolleyes:

If it's multiple pitching prospects, then they need to be A-ball type guys. Otherwise, MAYBE 1, and even then I'm not sure because the value of SP prospects is through the roof in this FA market.

caulfield12
12-12-2006, 11:24 AM
Have you not been paying attention the last 2 weeks? SP prices have skyrocketed. Kenny's on record that he needs to make sure they have good, cost-controlled SPs for the future. And you want to deal 2 for a reliever?

You think Kenny would have dealt Freddy Garcia straight up for Mike Gonzalez? :rolleyes:

If it's multiple pitching prospects, then they need to be A-ball type guys. Otherwise, MAYBE 1, and even then I'm not sure because the value of SP prospects is through the roof in this FA market.


Yes, and I would rather win this SEASON, because going into the campaign with Tracey/Haeger, Floyd and Aardsma is suicide.

We have six young pitchers in McCarthy, Gio, Floyd, McCullogh, Broadway and Haeger. Five, in the sense we can't trade Kyle yet.

If KW is as smart as I think he is, he can dump the two least likely to succeed on the Pirates and we would have the best pen in the major leagues with one move...nobody would have two lefties and three power righties like our pen, we would jump to equal or ahead of Minnesota and DET.

If it only costs CoCo Crisp, maybe the Pirates will take Mackowiak back? (Not sure if I can or should "half-teal" that or not).

So the question is, do you feel we can win the division without making a move at all with our pen before the season? I don't feel confident saying that. This season is our last, best chance to win the World Series in the next 3-5 years IMO.

caulfield12
12-12-2006, 11:25 AM
Have you not been paying attention the last 2 weeks? SP prices have skyrocketed. Kenny's on record that he needs to make sure they have good, cost-controlled SPs for the future. And you want to deal 2 for a reliever?

You think Kenny would have dealt Freddy Garcia straight up for Mike Gonzalez? :rolleyes:

If it's multiple pitching prospects, then they need to be A-ball type guys. Otherwise, MAYBE 1, and even then I'm not sure because the value of SP prospects is through the roof in this FA market.

quote=Flight #24;1438302]Have you not been paying attention the last 2 weeks? SP prices have skyrocketed. Kenny's on record that he needs to make sure they have good, cost-controlled SPs for the future. And you want to deal 2 for a reliever?

You think Kenny would have dealt Freddy Garcia straight up for Mike Gonzalez? :rolleyes:

If it's multiple pitching prospects, then they need to be A-ball type guys. Otherwise, MAYBE 1, and even then I'm not sure because the value of SP prospects is through the roof in this FA market.[/quote]


Yes, and I would rather win this SEASON, because going into the campaign with Tracey/Haeger, Floyd and Aardsma is suicide.

We have six young pitchers in McCarthy, Gio, Floyd, McCullogh, Broadway and Haeger. Five, in the sense we can't trade Kyle yet.

If KW is as smart as I think he is, he can dump the two least likely to succeed on the Pirates and we would have the best pen in the major leagues with one move...nobody would have two lefties and three power righties like our pen, we would jump to equal or ahead of Minnesota and DET.

If it only costs CoCo Crisp, maybe the Pirates will take Mackowiak back? (Not sure if I can or should "half-teal" that or not).

So the question is, do you feel we can win the division without making a move at all with our pen before the season? I don't feel confident saying that. This season is our last, best chance to win the World Series in the next 3-5 years IMO.

Tragg
12-12-2006, 11:55 AM
I don't think the pen was the only reason we didn't make the playoffs. We didn't hit at times, Ozzie's handling of the team was less than exemplary and other matters.
Essentially your suggesting that we take what we got for Garcia and trade it for Gonzales. No way. Garcia >Gonzales. The other side of that, of course, is that we made a bad deal in trading Garcia, who at worst is an innings eater; but it's awfully quick to cut our losses like that.

I'd rather see what we can get from Houston if we insist on trading Garland - Qualls is a reliable reliever plus a couple of their top pitching prospects and maybe Taverez as everyone (except me) seems to want him.

Flight #24
12-12-2006, 12:08 PM
Yes, and I would rather win this SEASON, because going into the campaign with Tracey/Haeger, Floyd and Aardsma is suicide.

We have six young pitchers in McCarthy, Gio, Floyd, McCullogh, Broadway and Haeger. Five, in the sense we can't trade Kyle yet.

If KW is as smart as I think he is, he can dump the two least likely to succeed on the Pirates and we would have the best pen in the major leagues with one move...nobody would have two lefties and three power righties like our pen, we would jump to equal or ahead of Minnesota and DET.

If it only costs CoCo Crisp, maybe the Pirates will take Mackowiak back? (Not sure if I can or should "half-teal" that or not).

So the question is, do you feel we can win the division without making a move at all with our pen before the season? I don't feel confident saying that. This season is our last, best chance to win the World Series in the next 3-5 years IMO.

I don't think Mike Gonzalez is the difference between the Sox and the WS. And I certainly don't think that making such a move is worth the possibility of having a big hole to fill in the rotation in 1-2 years.

The reason why you stockpile pitching prospects is because they carry a ton of risk. JR himself said "we need at least 6 to get 2". None of the guys you mentioned should be on the list of "guys KW thinks won't pan out", since they were either his top picks or guys he traded for - tells you he thinks they do have a future.

It's a question of making a reasonable deal, what you proposed is not that.

PaulDrake
12-12-2006, 12:30 PM
This season is our last, best chance to win the World Series in the next 3-5 years IMO. I don't know if that's a popular sentiment around here, but I agree. Even more than that, as of today I like last years team better than what we have now.

White Sox Randy
12-12-2006, 12:49 PM
Good pitcher. Walks way too many batters. Mediocre whip.
Not worth 2 top pitching prospects.

Agreed. I like Gonzalez and I've been after the Sox to pick up a proven veteran reliever or two but NOT for 2 top preospects.

Heck, there were dozens of them on the F.A. market - sign one ! It doesn't cost any talent .

caulfield12
12-12-2006, 01:07 PM
I don't think the pen was the only reason we didn't make the playoffs. We didn't hit at times, Ozzie's handling of the team was less than exemplary and other matters.
Essentially your suggesting that we take what we got for Garcia and trade it for Gonzales. No way. Garcia >Gonzales. The other side of that, of course, is that we made a bad deal in trading Garcia, who at worst is an innings eater; but it's awfully quick to cut our losses like that.

I'd rather see what we can get from Houston if we insist on trading Garland - Qualls is a reliable reliever plus a couple of their top pitching prospects and maybe Taverez as everyone (except me) seems to want him.

Trading Haeger and Broadway (low first rounder) is not the same as turning around to trade two pitchers that could be 2 or 3 starters, if they get it together...

I'm not saying trade Gio and Floyd.

Tragg
12-12-2006, 07:40 PM
Trading Haeger and Broadway (low first rounder) is not the same as turning around to trade two pitchers that could be 2 or 3 starters, if they get it together...

I'm not saying trade Gio and Floyd.

Frankly, I'd trade the package of Gio and Floyd before the package of Haeger and Broadway.

caulfield12
12-12-2006, 08:50 PM
Frankly, I'd trade the package of Gio and Floyd before the package of Haeger and Broadway.


Why?

California Sox
12-12-2006, 09:56 PM
I don't think any of this is going to happen. I believe the reason Cotts was included in the Aardsma deal is that the organization thinks that Boone Logan is going to be pretty darn good. I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying that based on some of the statements I've read, they have very high hopes for him.

champagne030
12-12-2006, 10:02 PM
Frankly, I'd trade the package of Gio and Floyd before the package of Haeger and Broadway.

I'd trade Floyd and Haegar for Gonzalez...In a heartbeat. I wouldn't trade Gio or Broadway.

Craig Grebeck
12-12-2006, 10:18 PM
Why anyone would trade Haeger without giving him a chance in the rotation is beyond me.

Domeshot17
12-12-2006, 10:23 PM
I stopped reading after I saw mlbtraderumors.com.

That site has about as much validity of Levine. I would bet Fenway's WEII would get one right before that joke of a site.

soxinem1
12-13-2006, 05:07 PM
With the stupid trade history of PIT the last few years, maybe we can get Gonzalez for Augustin Montero!!

And yes, I know he's off the 40 man roster.

DaleJRFan
12-13-2006, 05:13 PM
With the stupid trade history of PIT the last few years, maybe we can get Gonzalez for Augustin Montero!!

And yes, I know he's off the 40 man roster.

Gonzalez will be a free agent after next year if I am not mistaken... it probably wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility to get Gonzalez for two of the better non-A level AA arms... maybe Heath Phillips and Wes Whisler could get it done?? Both of those guys seem to have "major league loogy in 3 years" written all over them.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-13-2006, 05:48 PM
With the stupid trade history of PIT the last few years, maybe we can get Gonzalez for Augustin Montero!!

And yes, I know he's off the 40 man roster.

Not just off the roster, but off the team according to BA. He elected for free agency.