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View Full Version : Tigers sign Mesa?


Huisj
12-10-2006, 10:35 PM
Uh oh, watch out AL central, the best bullpen in the division just got . . . worse?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2693447

Oblong
12-10-2006, 10:54 PM
If this team's 25 man roster includes Jose Mesa and Neifi Perez I might have to take back all the nice things I've said about Dombrowski.

I don't get this at all. The only thing I can imagine is that a trade is in the works.

FedEx227
12-10-2006, 10:55 PM
Please keep Omar Vizquel in the NL so we don't have to witness they're annoying nothing feud.

Sox Fan 35
12-10-2006, 10:57 PM
Please keep Omar Vizquel in the NL so we don't have to witness they're annoying nothing feud.

Just picture what it would have been like if we got him.

DumpJerry
12-10-2006, 11:00 PM
If this team's 25 man roster includes Jose Mesa and Neifi Perez I might have to take back all the nice things I've said about Dombrowski.

I don't get this at all. The only thing I can imagine is that a trade is in the works.
They can't trade Mesa until June 1st. FA's signed in the off season cannot be traded until June 1st to prevent sign and deal contracts.

ondafarm
12-11-2006, 02:04 AM
Joe Table back in the ALCD!! This is news. Last I saw of him he made
Mr. Bat-Away look difficult to hit.

Palehose13
12-11-2006, 02:36 AM
THE Joe Table. Sweet. :D:

Bill Naharodny
12-11-2006, 02:01 PM
Jose Mesa may not be much, but I will say that Kenny Williams hasn't done much to help his bullpen so far. For such a trouble spot on last year's team (even WITH MacDougal), I would've thought he'd be a little more aggressive.

But there he was in the paper yesterday, touting Sean Tracey (who can't find the strike zone with any regularity). And the reason, once again, is resources. It's fine to say that you want to spend money wisely, but then spend it on your priorities. This shoud be a priority.

And I say that thinking that Aardsma has some talent. It just looks to me like we're going to have a bunch of question marks in the back end of the pen going into spring training (including, yet again, for a second lefty). That didn't work so well last year.

And, just as with Politte last year, it's a mistake to assume that Thornton will be as effective next year. The guy is impressive, but he needs to put it together for more than a year in order to be able to simply mark him down as steady.

champagne030
12-11-2006, 02:13 PM
Jose Mesa may not be much, but I will say that Kenny Williams hasn't done much to help his bullpen so far. For such a trouble spot on last year's team (even WITH MacDougal), I would've thought he'd be a little more aggressive.

But there he was in the paper yesterday, touting Sean Tracey (who can't find the strike zone with any regularity). And the reason, once again, is resources. It's fine to say that you want to spend money wisely, but then spend it on your priorities. This shoud be a priority.

And I say that thinking that Aardsma has some talent. It just looks to me like we're going to have a bunch of question marks in the back end of the pen going into spring training (including, yet again, for a second lefty). That didn't work so well last year.

And, just as with Politte last year, it's a mistake to assume that Thornton will be as effective next year. The guy is impressive, but he needs to put it together for more than a year in order to be able to simply mark him down as steady.

It is only December 11, so I'll give KW a little time. I will say that if we do not acquire someone decent by ST then KW has recreated our former 5th starter follies with the back end of the bullpen.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-11-2006, 02:39 PM
It is only December 11, so I'll give KW a little time. I will say that if we do not acquire someone decent by ST then KW has recreated our former 5th starter follies with the back end of the bullpen.

The back end of the BP is good with Thornton, Mac and Bad Bobby. The problem lies in Middle relief hopefully Aardsma and Floyd provide us with some stability that last year just was not there.

champagne030
12-11-2006, 02:52 PM
The back end of the BP is good with Thornton, Mac and Bad Bobby. The problem lies in Middle relief hopefully Aardsma and Floyd provide us with some stability that last year just was not there.

You're right. I meant the front end. Aardsma, Floyd, Haegar, Logan......that seems like junk.

White Sox Randy
12-11-2006, 02:53 PM
Throwing money at the situation is not the solution.

Just because other teams spend money on their bullpen signing proven veteran relief help doesn't mean the White Sox should.

Just because last year's bullpen was a disaster after losing some relievers from the Championship team doesn't mean that Kenny will let the same thing happen again.

It's only Dec. 11 th and besides there's always Logan, Montero, Gio, Tracey, Floyd etc. and all kinds of other proven major league relief pitchers at the Sox disposal.

champagne030
12-11-2006, 02:58 PM
Throwing money at the situation is not the solution.

Just because other teams spend money on their bullpen signing proven veteran relief help doesn't mean the White Sox should.

Just because last year's bullpen was a disaster after losing some relievers from the Championship team doesn't mean that Kenny will let the same thing happen again.

It's only Dec. 11 th and besides there's always Logan, Montero, Gio, Tracey, Floyd etc. and all kinds of other proven major league relief pitchers at the Sox disposal.

:puking:

Where do the Sox have "all kinds of other proven major league relief pitchers at their disposal"?

Oblong
12-11-2006, 06:44 PM
They can't trade Mesa until June 1st. FA's signed in the off season cannot be traded until June 1st to prevent sign and deal contracts.

I know. I was thinking of some of the other RH in the bullpen, Jones/Rodney/Grilli/Miner.

champagne030
12-11-2006, 08:18 PM
I know. I was thinking of some of the other RH in the bullpen, Jones/Rodney/Miner.

Fixed it for ya. :cool: Don't expect Grilli to fetch anything in a trade or duplicate his career year.

ondafarm
12-11-2006, 09:18 PM
But there he was in the paper yesterday, touting Sean Tracey (who can't find the strike zone with any regularity). And the reason, once again, is resources. It's fine to say that you want to spend money wisely, but then spend it on your priorities. This shoud be a priority.

And, just as with Politte last year, it's a mistake to assume that Thornton will be as effective next year. The guy is impressive, but he needs to put it together for more than a year in order to be able to simply mark him down as steady.

You've seen how much of Sean Tracey? A couple of innings up for a cup of coffee with the big team? Kenny has probably seen easily twenty times as much of Tracey and probably a lot more recently than you. I personally don't know how Tracey is doing, but I know KW has seen a lot more of him than me and has a much better judgement. And you are even coming up with theories of why.

Anybody who's been around baseball could tell you Politte was waiting to fail: a small guy who threw hard, short-arming the ball.

Thornton is an entirely different animal: a big guy with an easy motion. While you may question if Thornton's control will be as sharp next year, losing his fastball is not very likely.

caulfield12
12-11-2006, 09:21 PM
I know. I was thinking of some of the other RH in the bullpen, Jones/Rodney/Grilli/Miner.


And R. Colon. He has the most potential of all of them, with the exceptions of Zumaya and probably Rodney.

Bill Naharodny
12-12-2006, 12:39 AM
You've seen how much of Sean Tracey? A couple of innings up for a cup of coffee with the big team? Kenny has probably seen easily twenty times as much of Tracey and probably a lot more recently than you. I personally don't know how Tracey is doing, but I know KW has seen a lot more of him than me and has a much better judgement. And you are even coming up with theories of why.

Anybody who's been around baseball could tell you Politte was waiting to fail: a small guy who threw hard, short-arming the ball.

Thornton is an entirely different animal: a big guy with an easy motion. While you may question if Thornton's control will be as sharp next year, losing his fastball is not very likely.

Kenny, Kenny, Kenny. Blah, blah, blah. Dark cloud, dark cloud, dark cloud.

I'm not making up theories, pal. All you have to do is read the paper for the last 2 weeks. Williams is miffed at the market. And the market has resulted in relievers like Bradford, Baez and others going off the board at higher-than-expected costs.

Regarding Tracey, you're right. I've only seen him 3 or 4 times in spring training, and 3 or 4 times in the majors. Kenny Williams, as the General Manager of the Chicago White Sox, has seen this pitcher for the White Sox more than I have. You got me. But the times I've seen him, he has a live arm and little control. And his statisticis in the minors, which I did follow (because I'm familiar with the Internet and tables with numbers in them), were lousy in relief and good as a starter.

So, he's a crapshoot. That's all I'm saying. What are YOU saying? You like our pen? You liked it last year? Great. Then just say it.

As for Thornton, you did a nice job of avoiding the issue. Of course Thornton's not going to lose his fastball. His problem has been control of that fastball and location of that fastball, and that was the problem for about 6 years. I loved the guy last year, but hasn't everyone around here been screaming that relievers are the most dicey commodity imaginable? Seems like you might want to see what happens with this guy for more than a year (really 3/4 of a year) before counting on him as rock-solid.

Thanks for your time.

caulfield12
12-12-2006, 12:47 AM
Kenny, Kenny, Kenny. Blah, blah, blah. Dark cloud, dark cloud, dark cloud.

I'm not making up theories, pal. All you have to do is read the paper for the last 2 weeks. Williams is miffed at the market. And the market has resulted in relievers like Bradford, Baez and others going off the board at higher-than-expected costs.

Regarding Tracey, you're right. I've only seen him 3 or 4 times in spring training, and 3 or 4 times in the majors. Kenny Williams, as the General Manager of the Chicago White Sox, has seen this pitcher for the White Sox more than I have. You got me. But the times I've seen him, he has a live arm and little control. And his statisticis in the minors, which I did follow (because I'm familiar with the Internet and tables with numbers in them), were lousy in relief and good as a starter.

So, he's a crapshoot. That's all I'm saying. What are YOU saying? You like our pen? You liked it last year? Great. Then just say it.

As for Thornton, you did a nice job of avoiding the issue. Of course Thornton's not going to lose his fastball. His problem has been control of that fastball and location of that fastball, and that was the problem for about 6 years. I loved the guy last year, but hasn't everyone around here been screaming that relievers are the most dicey commodity imaginable? Seems like you might want to see what happens with this guy for more than a year (really 3/4 of a year) before counting on him as rock-solid.

Thanks for your time.

Would we be cheering the signing of Jamie Walker or Oliver to the numbers they got if either were coming to the Sox?

As far as Mesa, we already have three Mesas on this team with Jenks, MacDougal and Aardsma. NO sense to add another at huge cost with questionable benefit.

soxinem1
12-12-2006, 09:21 AM
This is not a bad signing. I'm not a big Mesa fan, but he can still get guys out.

The Immigrant
12-12-2006, 09:29 AM
Would we be cheering the signing of Jamie Walker or Oliver to the numbers they got if either were coming to the Sox?


I wouldn't necessarily be cheering it, but I would at least have some confidence that our bullpen has been solidified (Walker more so than Oliver).

Leaving extra payroll on the table does **** for me, pal. Go get some bullpen help before there's none left.

Tragg
12-12-2006, 10:46 AM
I guess he's an okay pitcher.

Im glad we didn't sign him, however.

santo=dorf
12-13-2006, 06:20 PM
This is not a bad signing. I'm not a big Mesa fan, but he can still get guys out.
....even if he's giving up 3 base runners every 2 innings? He's going to be even worse if he's not a closer, because in middle relief, those leadoff 9th inning hits will be coming when there are runners on base.

This is funny too. Jose Mesa is either lying about his age, or developed pretty early
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=118986

Full Name: Joe Coffee Table
Born: 05/22/1966
Birthplace: Azua, Dominican Republic
Height: 6'3" Weight: 235
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
College: N/A
MLB Debut: 09/10/1987

Joe Coffee Table...he and his wife Mirla have 6 children; sons Ralph (6/29/79), Juan Jose (8/4/85), Jesse (8/17/88), and Jose Jr. (8/13/93), and daughters Yamely (1/15/74) and Yenny (7/16/87)...

So he was 7 when his first daughter was born, and 13 when his first son was born.

Where's Maury? :redneck

soxinem1
12-15-2006, 07:31 PM
This is funny too. Jose Mesa is either lying about his age, or developed pretty early
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=118986

Full Name: Joe Coffee Table
Born: 05/22/1966
Birthplace: Azua, Dominican Republic
Height: 6'3" Weight: 235
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
College: N/A
MLB Debut: 09/10/1987

Joe Coffee Table...he and his wife Mirla have 6 children; sons Ralph (6/29/79), Juan Jose (8/4/85), Jesse (8/17/88), and Jose Jr. (8/13/93), and daughters Yamely (1/15/74) and Yenny (7/16/87)...

So he was 7 when his first daughter was born, and 13 when his first son was born.

Where's Maury? :redneck


Well, Gene Nelson and Shawn Hillegas, two former White Sox, both had kids before they were 15. In fact, Hillegas son is only 13 years younger than him. I remember him at the park in 1989, it looked like they were two brothers.

Bill Naharodny
12-16-2006, 12:10 AM
Would we be cheering the signing of Jamie Walker or Oliver to the numbers they got if either were coming to the Sox?

As far as Mesa, we already have three Mesas on this team with Jenks, MacDougal and Aardsma. NO sense to add another at huge cost with questionable benefit.

I don't even know what the second paragraph means. I'm not sure what the similarity is between these guys. But you seem to know, and I think that's great for you. Actually, it's downright exciting. Thanks.

And, regarding the first paragraph, I think the "numbers" are relative. At this point, since we haven't spent a dime this year on anyone outside the organization, I guess I wouldn't have much to complain about.

And, no, I'm not advocating spending just for spending. But I'm sure, given the tenor of many here, that I'll be flamed for insisting that the organization provide bullpen depth -- and options beyond the inevitable spring training report of: "Hey, I watched Tracey/Logan/Gio/Larry the Cable Guy today against the Rockies 'B' team in Tucson, and here's what I saw" -- at a cost that few, if any, will ever notice.

fquaye149
12-16-2006, 01:45 AM
Please keep Omar Vizquel in the NL so we don't have to witness they're annoying nothing feud.

"i'm going to knock him down


and then


i'm going

to KILL HIM"