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nysox35
12-10-2006, 01:54 PM
I just want to know how far people think we can go if the roster stays set pretty much as it is.
Can we win the division? Make the Playoffs? Win the Whole thing?

LF Pods
2B Iguchi
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
SS Uribe
CF Anderson/Sweeney

BN Gload
BN Ozuna
BN Mack
BN Cintron
BN Stewart/Catcher

SP Contreras
SP Buehrle (L)
SP Garland
SP Vazquez
SP McCarthy

RP Logan/Tracey/Haegar/?
RP Floyd/?
RP Aardsma
SU Thornton (L)
SU MacDougal
CL Jenks

I think we can go pretty far, although I'm a little worried about the 5th & 6th bullpen spots.
I think Liriano being out will benefit us. Also, I think we'll fly a little bit more "under the radar" this season since we're not defending champs.

I think we'll be back in the playoffs at a minimum.
What do you think? What moves do you see being made, if any?

chisoxmike
12-10-2006, 01:57 PM
No, the bullpen is still iffy.

23Ventura
12-10-2006, 01:58 PM
SP Contreras
SP Buehrle (L)
SP Garland
SP Vazquez
SP McCarthy

RP Logan/Tracey/Haegar/?
RP Floyd/?
RP Aardsma
SU Thornton (L)
SU MacDougal
CL Jenks

I think they're capable of winning it all, but it depends on what these guys do.

Sox Fan 35
12-10-2006, 02:02 PM
No, the bullpen is still iffy.


I would like to see another left-hander.

MUsoxfan
12-10-2006, 02:05 PM
Yes. I've always said "The more the Sox stay the same, the more they get better."


The only way we don't win is if Haeger is on the team.

FloridaSox
12-10-2006, 02:14 PM
This team is starting to get old...some of key players have reached and passed their peak. They are still important and valued members of the team...but we have seen in my opinion this team's peak.

JermaineDye05
12-10-2006, 02:20 PM
still need some more help in the bullpen and I still think we need a new lead off guy I don't like the idea of relying on a guy we hope will stay in an every other year trend. Also I'd like to have gooch moved into the 6 or 7 hole, does anyone here think BA would benefit or be able to handle the 2 hole?

nysox35
12-10-2006, 02:23 PM
This team is starting to get old...some of key players have reached and passed their peak. They are still important and valued members of the team...but we have seen in my opinion this team's peak.

Just curious, who do you mean?
The only people that come to mind for me are Thome and Contreras.

nysox35
12-10-2006, 02:23 PM
still need some more help in the bullpen and I still think we need a new lead off guy I don't like the idea of relying on a guy we hope will stay in an every other year trend. Also I'd like to have gooch moved into the 6 or 7 hole, does anyone here think BA would benefit or be able to handle the 2 hole?

That seems like a lot to ask of someone with his offensive struggles last year, but that's just me.

caulfield12
12-10-2006, 02:26 PM
This team is starting to get old...some of key players have reached and passed their peak. They are still important and valued members of the team...but we have seen in my opinion this team's peak.


The only ones to worry about are Pods, Dye, Thome, Iguchi and Contreras.

We are far from an old team. Trading Garcia made us younger, because his arm was about 35 years old seemingly.

2B are not that difficult to replace in this market even. AJ is a slight concern because any catcher nearing 30 goes through a preciptous decline. To me, the biggest concern HAS to be Contreras, as his contract lasts through 2009 and could become a disaster if he never returns to form.

Do you propose trading Dye right now to let Sweeney or Fields play RF?

We will make all those moves if we don't make the playoffs in 2007.

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-10-2006, 02:35 PM
Lineup wise, I think we're as strong as we were in 2005. Let's remember - we won it all without Frank's bat; we have Thome to replace him, so I feel we're in as good a shape, if not better (i.e., 1st base ability, knowing NL pitchers, etc).

The bullpen scares me a bit, as others have mentioned. Curious to see if Macdougal takes a leadership presence out there now that he's "long term".

cards press box
12-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Can the White Sox make the playoffs with essentially this roster? You bet.

In the second half last year, Buerhle and Contreras did not pitch well and I believe went a combined 6-16. If they went 11-11, the White Sox would have won 100 games and led the league in wins.

I think that McCarthy will pitch well next year and that the Sox bullpen will be stronger than last year. Jenks, MacDougal and Thornton form a strong nucleus. Aardsma has a power arm and Haeger provides a nice alternative in long relief. I expect that another pitcher (a lefty or a righty with an offspeed pitch) might be added.

The Sox could use a right-handed hitting outfielder who can play center and left. I've seen people on this board suggest Shannon Stewart and that might be a good idea. If the Sox don't plan on using Mackowiak in center, they have to bring in another centerfielder and I assume it will be: (a) someone outside the organization, (b) Sweeney or (c) Owens. However the outfield situation plays out, the keys, as they always are, are pitching and defense. It can't be a coincidence that the teams at the top of the league in team ERA seem to always make the playoffs.

If the starters come back refreshed -- and there is no reason to think they will not -- the Sox will be fine.

CaptainBallz
12-10-2006, 03:33 PM
If the starters come back refreshed -- and there is no reason to think they will not -- the Sox will be fine.

It was the key to last year's disappointing finish (not to take any responsibility away from the BP) and it will remain the key to '07 and beyond. We need the Mark Buerhle, the good Contreras, the sane Vasquez, a confident and comfortable McCarthy, and a bullpen that understands that leads are a good thing.

That's not to say that Pods isn't still a huge "?", as is Uribe, and the CF situation.

So as of right now, I'll give a firm "maybe".

oeo
12-10-2006, 04:02 PM
No, the bullpen is still iffy.

Was the bullpen solid before the 2005 season? No one could have predicted that it would have been very good, yet it was. Bullpens are iffy...I think the Tigers and Twins are going to have a lot of the same problems we had last year.

I think with the current bullpen above...it would start off slow, until Floyd/Aardsma get going, and would turn very solid by about midseason.

ondafarm
12-10-2006, 04:08 PM
No, the bullpen is still iffy.

:violin:

The bullpen is fine.

I'm predicting Sox go all the way this year.

SOXSINCE'70
12-10-2006, 04:11 PM
I would like to see another left-hander.

I echo that sentiment.

Myrtle72
12-10-2006, 04:13 PM
I agree that the bullpen needs some work; however, I also think that this team could take it all the way, depending on the circumstances.

It really depends, but I would like to see some upgrades in the bullpen anyway.

fusillirob1983
12-10-2006, 04:16 PM
I think the Sox can do it with this team as long as the starters' ERAs are an average of the 2005 and 2006 ERAs.

caulfield12
12-10-2006, 04:37 PM
I think the Sox can do it with this team as long as the starters' ERAs are an average of the 2005 and 2006 ERAs.

I think we need to be at 4.0-4.1 per game, but not close to 4.6.

TornLabrum
12-10-2006, 04:38 PM
We need the following:

Another lefty in the pen to replace Cotts, who is nearly as good as Cotts was in 2005;
Podsednik to play the way he did the first half of 2005;
Anderson to have a whole season as good offensively as he was the second half of 2006;
Uribe to hit his career average.
Contreras to pitch well a whole season instead of a half season;
McCarthy to live up to his potential;
Buehrle to come back.

If most of that happens, we'll win.

infohawk
12-10-2006, 06:42 PM
On paper, I think we're better than we were at the start of last season. I think Brandon will be at least as effective as Freddy was last year, probably a little better. Freddy may have won 17 games, but he didn't pitch all that well most of the year and benefited from tremendous run support.

I think the bullpen as presently constituted is better than it was on opening day last year. We've jettisoned Pollite and Cotts from set-up roles and will have the nasty-throwing MacDougal and the flame-throwing Thornton for the full season. I think Aardsma and Floyd give the Sox two power arms from the right side for the sixth or seventh innings. I actually think Haeger could benefit the bullpen in long-relief. He could be the guy who saves the rest of the pen when a starter has a short outing, and being a knuckleballer could pitch more often then a standard pitcher. Just the ability to save the 'pen on occasion has a certain amount of value.

I think KW still has to add another left-hander, unless they think Logan or Gonzalez can fill the role effectively. I wouldn't sink too much money into the front of the bullpen. Again, this is where I see Haeger having a lot of value. He could probably pitch long-relief on occasion and be a sixth-inning kind of guy when the starter can't go on. Of course, he should ideally come in when nobody is on second or third.

I'm fine with the line-up at present if KW doesn't make any changes. I don't know if Dye will equal his career year, he might, but a couple players who underperformed are due to rebound. I think a big key will be if Pods will be a little better now that he is a year further removed from that double-hernia surgery. I think it would be a mistake to give up on Anderson. He played very well in the second half. I'd like to think that Uribe won't be quite so bad offensively as he was in 2006. I'm crossing my fingers on Uribe, anyway.

Iron Dragon2
12-10-2006, 07:09 PM
Can someone please explain how McCarthy, who has 12 career wins, is suddenly regarded as better than or equal to Freddy Garcia, who had 17 wins last season?

Craig Grebeck
12-10-2006, 07:13 PM
Can someone please explain how McCarthy, who has 12 career wins, is suddenly regarded as better than or equal to Freddy Garcia, who had 17 wins last season?
Can someone please explain to me when wins became relevant in discussing a pitcher's quality?

JermaineDye05
12-10-2006, 07:19 PM
Can someone please explain how McCarthy, who has 12 career wins, is suddenly regarded as better than or equal to Freddy Garcia, who had 17 wins last season?

McCarthy only has 7 career wins although he's only had 12 career starts, ever since his first career win in Texas he's looked very solid as a starter, (i.e. Boston in 05, Cleveland in 05/06, I think he also had a start against Minnesota this year too and he looked very sharp, also remember that 18 inning game against Boston when Brandon came in for long relief, although he wasn't starting that game it was almost as if he was and he looked great then too) Another factor in McCarthy being better, Brandon has about 5 mph more on his fastball then Freddy does now and would factor better in the AL then Freddy will now that he appears to top out at 89-90.

The Dude
12-10-2006, 07:23 PM
No, the bullpen is still iffy.

Yes, I'd say add another arm in the pen and we'll be in good shape.

ondafarm
12-10-2006, 07:24 PM
. . . I'm fine with the line-up at present if KW doesn't make any changes. I don't know if Dye will equal his career year, he might, but a couple players who underperformed are due to rebound. I think a big key will be if Pods will be a little better now that he is a year further removed from that double-hernia surgery. I think it would be a mistake to give up on Anderson. He played very well in the second half. I'd like to think that Uribe won't be quite so bad offensively as he was in 2006. I'm crossing my fingers on Uribe, anyway.

I think the tail of the White Sox lineup got caught in a team effect in 2006. As in, whereas at times success is contagious, so failure sometimes is also. BA had a poor start of the season and had never had to do the little things to scrap for hits (bunting, taking walks and speed work.) Thus he couldn't get out of his tailspin early. This affected both Uribe and Pods who both reacted badly to extra pressure. Hopefully BA will both be fine and have the tools to get himself out of any tailspin. Ozzie said he'd be working on such things in ST.

If the Sox offense can both bash like last year, and I expect they will, and can score runs in tough games (smart ball) then the White Sox will be just fine, unless the pitching totally implodes, which I don't expect.

TheVulture
12-10-2006, 07:46 PM
In the second half last year, Buerhle and Contreras did not pitch well and I believe went a combined 6-16. If they went 11-11, the White Sox would have won 100 games and led the league in wins.

:?:

Bucky F. Dent
12-10-2006, 07:51 PM
Another soutpaw in the bullpen and a centerfielder please!

nccwsfan
12-10-2006, 08:11 PM
The team (as of today) could/should win the AL Central in 2007, but they would need to make some moves in July/August to solidify their chances- they'll be in another dogfight with Detroit and Minny in 2007.

It's going to be a fun year- I'm already looking forward to proving the doubters wrong (AGAIN)!

PitchingKills
12-10-2006, 08:21 PM
I'm not sold on the Twins being back in contention if they lose both Radke and Liriano, as expected. I think the White Sox can win it all again in 2007 but they'll have to have luck on their side like most Champions do. I would like to see a new CF to make the most of Chicago's chances.

TheOldRoman
12-10-2006, 08:27 PM
We need the following:

Another lefty in the pen to replace Cotts, who is nearly as good as Cotts was in 2005;
Podsednik to play the way he did the first half of 2005;
Anderson to have a whole season as good offensively as he was the second half of 2006;
Uribe to hit his career average.
Contreras to pitch well a whole season instead of a half season;
McCarthy to live up to his potential;
Buehrle to come back.

If most of that happens, we'll win.
Well, none of those happened in 06, and we missed the playoffs by 5 games. And as down as I was on this team in the second half, I think we could have matched up with anyone in the playoffs. We don't need all or even most of those things to happen - if even two or three happen, we can win it all. This team underachieved in 06, and I have no reason to believe they will again in 07. That doesn't mean I would sit on my hands if I were KW, but we don't need to improve that much talent wise.

fusillirob1983
12-10-2006, 08:27 PM
I think we need to be at 4.0-4.1 per game, but not close to 4.6.

I don't think being near 4.6 will be good. Just eyeballing an estimate between the two seasons, I think it's somewhere between 4.1 and 4.2.

DickAllen72
12-10-2006, 08:31 PM
Another soutpaw in the bullpen and a centerfielder please!

And not necessarily in that order.

Jjav829
12-10-2006, 08:43 PM
It's possible. I wouldn't say we're runaway favorites to win it all, but do we have the potential to be a playoff team and win the World Series? Sure. If we get a little bit of luck, we could be right back there.

Of course it would be nice to get another lefty in the pen, an upgrade at the leadoff position and SS or CF, but at the very worst right now, we're at least strong contenders for the AL Central.

Iron Dragon2
12-10-2006, 08:59 PM
McCarthy only has 7 career wins although he's only had 12 career starts, ever since his first career win in Texas he's looked very solid as a starter, (i.e. Boston in 05, Cleveland in 05/06, I think he also had a start against Minnesota this year too and he looked very sharp, also remember that 18 inning game against Boston when Brandon came in for long relief, although he wasn't starting that game it was almost as if he was and he looked great then too) Another factor in McCarthy being better, Brandon has about 5 mph more on his fastball then Freddy does now and would factor better in the AL then Freddy will now that he appears to top out at 89-90.

This is apparently going to be his first full year starting, and we all know how long the season is. To say he's going to be an improvement over FG, for this season, seems a long stretch to me.

soxinem1
12-10-2006, 09:02 PM
Can someone please explain how McCarthy, who has 12 career wins, is suddenly regarded as better than or equal to Freddy Garcia, who had 17 wins last season?

There comes a time when you have to give your prospects a chance.

As with Garland, win totals mean nothing.

Plus, the White Sox total of SB's allowed should drop by at least 30 with this trade.

And my reply to the topic of the thread:

We need another BP arm to emerge.

Bucky F. Dent
12-10-2006, 09:07 PM
Have either Anderson or Sweeney played in left before?

Cuz, while I think that we need a centerfielder, I wouldn't be too torn up if one of these two was allowed to replace or platoon with Pods in left.

caulfield12
12-10-2006, 09:15 PM
I don't think being near 4.6 will be good. Just eyeballing an estimate between the two seasons, I think it's somewhere between 4.1 and 4.2.

Ummmm...that's what I said.

caulfield12
12-10-2006, 09:17 PM
Have either Anderson or Sweeney played in left before?

Cuz, while I think that we need a centerfielder, I wouldn't be too torn up if one of these two was allowed to replace or platoon with Pods in left.

Anderson is not a "net asset" as a leftfielder without power or steals.

He needs to play CF or nowhere. Move him to LF and displace Pods and we have no leadoff hitter, unless you want Andruw Jones and Vernon Wells to leadoff.

Anderson getting 30% of the at-bats in the season does him no good. Might as well ship him back to Charlotte to play everyday.

PKalltheway
12-10-2006, 09:17 PM
I just want to know how far people think we can go if the roster stays set pretty much as it is.
Can we win the division? Make the Playoffs? Win the Whole thing?

LF Pods
2B Iguchi
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
SS Uribe
CF Anderson/Sweeney

BN Gload
BN Ozuna
BN Mack
BN Cintron
BN Stewart/Catcher

SP Contreras
SP Buehrle (L)
SP Garland
SP Vazquez
SP McCarthy

RP Logan/Tracey/Haegar/?
RP Floyd/?
RP Aardsma
SU Thornton (L)
SU MacDougal
CL Jenks


That, my good man, is a damn good ballclub. I say we go back to the playoffs. I mean, come on, how often is it that you see a team win 90 games and still miss the playoffs?* With the wild card too? Even though the Sox pitching underachieved this past season, they were really just the odd ones out.

The AL Central will be solid, but I don't think there will be 3 teams with 90 wins in the division next year.

*EDIT: I should have said "How often is it that you see a team win 90+ games, and still finish in third?"

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-10-2006, 09:21 PM
I don't think the team has improved at all. It looks basically the same as it did at the end of the season. Something is missing...

Frontman
12-10-2006, 09:30 PM
Like any team, the current lineup can "Win" it all depends on what they do.

If I were to ask the same thing about the following lineup and players:

A leadoff hitter coming off of a bad year with 105 SO
A pitcher with a 8-5 record and a 5.64 ERA
A right fielder who had 128 SO, a batting average of 329, And hit 23 Homers
A second baseman that never played in the majors would start
A closer who had no major league experience and was double AA at the beginning of the season
A catcher who had history of being trouble for his team and was considered "a risk."

Think they could win a world series?

I do belive they did. 2005 White Sox. In order above
Pods (100+ SO is nothing to sneeze at.)
Jose Contreras was considered bad.
Jermaine Dye was strong, but whoa. 128 SO? Not good.
Hell, noone saw Tadahito Iguchi as being as good as he was for us.
Big Bad Bobby Jenks, AA reject
And AJ "I love pissin' em off" Pierzynski

I'll avoid the Steve Perry "Dooon't Stop" crap now, but all things are possible. If the team is set now for opening day, I still think there is a strong core to it, and it would all depend on the pitching once again. And just because KW and Ozzie would go into the season with this lineup doesn't mean it would be the same on the last day of the season. It never is. Anyone remember Takasu? :wink:

fusillirob1983
12-10-2006, 10:32 PM
Ummmm...that's what I said.

I know, and that's what I said in my first post, except I didn't use numbers.

DSpivack
12-11-2006, 12:00 AM
So much different from last year's club? Seems the same to me. I'd bet on another 90-win season. Though I think KW is not done.

ondafarm
12-11-2006, 12:58 AM
So much different from last year's club? Seems the same to me. I'd bet on another 90-win season. Though I think KW is not done.

Last year's club had just concluded an exhausting run into the playoffs. All the starting pitchers showed the effects of that. BA had just come up and Pods had just experienced a difficult injury.

You'd bet wrong.

Gavin
12-11-2006, 08:42 AM
If both a) centerfield starts hitting for average (.275 or above) and b) our starting pitching magically and drastically has a lower ERA, the Sox will soar this year. Based on the offseason so far, I'm guessing we'll have to rely on the law of large numbers for this to happen, assuming last year was a statistical fluke.

1917
12-11-2006, 08:49 AM
There is about 20 teams in MLB that would like to go into the season with our lineup

jandm859
12-11-2006, 10:10 AM
O.K we;ve all had some time to digest all the moves and non-moves. I think one thing is very clear, nothing has been done to improve this years team. I think we can all agree on that. We can argue that the team has been improved for 2008 -09 but surely not 2007. So the question. Do we need more deals before spring training? or do they keep the money they saved and this year turns into a hope and a prayer.

chisoxmike
12-11-2006, 11:05 AM
:violin:

The bullpen is fine.

I'm predicting Sox go all the way this year.

:rolling:

The Sox are defiantly one of the top 5 teams in the AL, maybe even in baseball, but I wouldn't be putting them in the World Series for 2007 anytime soon.

Fake Chet Lemon
12-11-2006, 12:47 PM
:violin:

The bullpen is fine.



Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Aardsma......agree. That sounds Ok to me.

I'd really like to see a veteran, vocal leader added to the roster. Ideally a Left or Center fielder since we are one J. Dye injury away from having the worst outfield EVER. AJ can't do it all himself in the locker-room. Guys like Rowand and Everett.....the '06 team missed that type of leadership (not necessarily the players themselves).

ondafarm
12-11-2006, 05:18 PM
:rolling:

The Sox are defiantly one of the top 5 teams in the AL, maybe even in baseball, but I wouldn't be putting them in the World Series for 2007 anytime soon.


Unless you are ranking the Sapporo (Nippon Ham) Fighters up there, which NL team do you think would crack the top 5? Cardinals? Mets? new and improved Dodgers?

Navarro's Talent
12-11-2006, 05:23 PM
Anything's possible, but I think the bullpen will have to be improved upon via trade to make sure of a playoff-bound season. With most of the same players back, I expect a stronger chemistry and better seasons from some of our starting pitchers. I'm very interested in seeing what McCarthy can do as the number five starter (assumming he gets it).

caulfield12
12-11-2006, 08:18 PM
The first preseason ratings I saw by Jeff Passan, we were 6th, the Cubs 11th, despite their $300 million of additional spending.

We've saved $10 million, lol. And we're still far ahead of them as an organization.

nedlug
12-11-2006, 08:57 PM
Yes.

They have not played a game yet, it is still possible.

Is it probable? Maybe. That's why they play the game.

gobears1987
12-12-2006, 12:04 PM
No, the pen sucks and Vaz the spaz is still in the rotation. If KW trades Garland, then we are done for.

gobears1987
12-12-2006, 12:05 PM
The first preseason ratings I saw by Jeff Passan, we were 6th, the Cubs 11th, despite their $300 million of additional spending.

We've saved $10 million, lol. And we're still far ahead of them as an organization.
Being better than the stupid Flubs isn't our goal. Our goal is to be better than the Twinkies, Kittens, Skankees, Blow Sawx, and the rest of the AL.

White Sox Randy
12-12-2006, 12:30 PM
I just want to know how far people think we can go if the roster stays set pretty much as it is.
Can we win the division? Make the Playoffs? Win the Whole thing?

LF Pods
2B Iguchi
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
SS Uribe
CF Anderson/Sweeney

BN Gload
BN Ozuna
BN Mack
BN Cintron
BN Stewart/Catcher

SP Contreras
SP Buehrle (L)
SP Garland
SP Vazquez
SP McCarthy

RP Logan/Tracey/Haegar/?
RP Floyd/?
RP Aardsma
SU Thornton (L)
SU MacDougal
CL Jenks

I think we can go pretty far, although I'm a little worried about the 5th & 6th bullpen spots.
I think Liriano being out will benefit us. Also, I think we'll fly a little bit more "under the radar" this season since we're not defending champs.

I think we'll be back in the playoffs at a minimum.
What do you think? What moves do you see being made, if any?

NO WAY ! No way can we win with that bullpen and without a backup CFer or a backup catcher !

But, I don't think Kenny is done either.

kitekrazy
12-14-2006, 07:20 PM
The Cardinals won "as is". Baseball has become less predictable. It's a new season when the playoffs arrive.

The Sox were not projected to be in 3rd place.

A lot can happen in 162 games.

MRM
12-14-2006, 08:27 PM
Buerhle and Contreras did not pitch well and I believe went a combined 6-16. If they went 11-11, the White Sox would have won 100 games and led the league in wins.

How exactly does MB and Jose adding 5 more wins combined equal the Sox winning 10 more games?

ondafarm
12-14-2006, 11:08 PM
The Sox have very good starting pitching with one very promising rookie and four veteran starting pitchers, all are capable of over 200 quality innings. An solid defense and an offense capable of scoring both bunches of runs and runs via smart ball. The relief pitching has a mix of three possible closers and talented younger pitchers with something to prove. This sounds like a likely playoff team to me.

mmmmmbeeer
12-15-2006, 12:27 AM
I think the AL Central will be a bit weaker this season as the Tigers try to recover from a long, overachieving season and the Twins deal with losing Liriano and Radke. Because of this, I think the Sox could make the playoffs with their current roster.

As far as making any noise in the playoffs? With an 8-9-1 of Uribe, Anderson, and Pods, we aren't going to get far at all. One of those positions needs an upgrade, preferably the leadoff slot. Also, as others have mentioned, the BP could use a lefty, perhaps a nice veteran presence in the pen.

ondafarm
12-15-2006, 12:58 AM
I think the AL Central will be a bit weaker this season as the Tigers try to recover from a long, overachieving season and the Twins deal with losing Liriano and Radke. Because of this, I think the Sox could make the playoffs with their current roster.

As far as making any noise in the playoffs? With an 8-9-1 of Uribe, Anderson, and Pods, we aren't going to get far at all. One of those positions needs an upgrade, preferably the leadoff slot. Also, as others have mentioned, the BP could use a lefty, perhaps a nice veteran presence in the pen.

I'd be absolutely shocked if all three of Uribe-Anderson and Pods don't perform better than they did in 2006 offensively.

oeo
12-15-2006, 01:08 AM
I'd be absolutely shocked if all three of Uribe-Anderson and Pods don't perform better than they did in 2006 offensively.

Actually, all three of them should be better. Pods' 2006 can partly be blamed on an injury, BA is one year wiser than he was last year, and even to Uribe's standards, it was not a very good season for him.

ondafarm
12-15-2006, 01:31 AM
Actually, all three of them should be better. Pods' 2006 can partly be blamed on an injury, BA is one year wiser than he was last year, and even to Uribe's standards, it was not a very good season for him.

Sorry for being unclear. That's what I thought I said.

oeo
12-15-2006, 02:13 AM
Sorry for being unclear. That's what I thought I said.

Yeah, I know. I probably shouldn't have used the word, "actually", but I'm pretty tired at this point.

Hitmen77
12-15-2006, 10:03 AM
As far as making any noise in the playoffs? With an 8-9-1 of Uribe, Anderson, and Pods, we aren't going to get far at all. One of those positions needs an upgrade, preferably the leadoff slot. Also, as others have mentioned, the BP could use a lefty, perhaps a nice veteran presence in the pen.

We just need to get to the playoffs. Once there, anything can happen. Remember the Cardinals almost historic collapse in late September?

ondafarm
12-16-2006, 09:21 PM
So we've added a talented left-handed arm for the bullpen for Gload, does this affect anyone's opinion. I think it strengthens are bullpen somewhat.


Of course, I thought even before this trade that the White Sox had the strongest team in the ALCD.

Bucky F. Dent
12-16-2006, 09:26 PM
So we've added a talented left-handed arm for the bullpen for Gload, does this affect anyone's opinion. I think it strengthens are bullpen somewhat.


Of course, I thought even before this trade that the White Sox had the strongest team in the ALCD.


I like the deal. I'm still concerned about CF and production at the top of the lineup.

nedlug
12-17-2006, 09:57 AM
Yes.

I can't wait for this year.

sullythered
12-17-2006, 10:40 AM
The terrible St. Louis Cardinals were the 2006 WS Champs. Of course we can win it in '07.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2006, 11:34 AM
LF Pods ($2.9 mil)
2B Iguchi ($3.25 mil)
DH Thome ($14 mil)
1B Konerko ($12 mil)
RF Dye ($7 mil)
C Pierzynski ($5.50 mil)
3B Crede ($5 mil estimate)
SS Uribe ($4.15 mil)
CF Anderson ($380,000)

BN Ozuna ($800,000)
BN Mack ($3 mil)
BN Cintron ($2.5 mil estimate)
BN T Hall ($1.75 mil)
BN Sweeney ($380,000)

SP Contreras ($9 mil)
SP Buehrle (L) ($9.50 mil)
SP Garland ($10 mil)
SP Vazquez ($12.50 mil)
SP McCarthy ($380,000)

RP Logan/Tracey/Haegar/ Floyd ($380,000)
RP Sisco (L) ($380,000)
RP Aardsma ($450,000)
SU Thornton (L) ($380,000)
SU MacDougal ($1.50 mil)
CL Jenks ($380,000)

Gross payroll: $107,460,000
Less net cash $12,330,000 (From Thome, Vazquez & other deals)

Total 2007 Net Payroll $95,130,000

Total 2006 Net Payroll $91,750,000

Sources - MLB.com & Hardball Dollars (http://russells.freeshell.org/ddollars/team.php?team=whitesox&name=White%20Sox). Payroll does not include costs for benefits (Pension and Health & Welfare contributions).


I wouldn't mind bringing in a Brady Clark type - someone who can field all three OF positions at an above average clip and can hit marginally enough to play ahead of Anderson or Sweeney if need be (as well as Podsednik).

I don't think there will be a big free agent signing. Kenny can always pull off another major deal, but I think he may bring an OFer depending on what the club thinks about Sweeney and Owens.

:supernana:

:gulp:

#11
12-17-2006, 04:54 PM
Look at it this way: Detroit improved themselves by picking up Sheffield, but their pitchers were overworked last year, and are due for a step backwards, just like the Sox suffered in 06. Minnesota takes a big hit with the losses of Radke & Liriano. Cleveland underachieved all last year, and figures to bounce back to reality. So Detroit will be no stronger, Cleveland will be, Minnesota will be worse.

The Sox? Compare last year to this --

Pods is further removed from surgery, but pressing. A wash
Iguchi remains the same.
Thome is better recovered from injuries. Probably slightly better.
Konerko remains.
Dye slips slightly from a career year, but remains solid.
Crede has hit his stride. The same or better than 06
AJ remains the same.
Anderson continues to play like the second half, having overcome some rookie jitters. Significant improvement.
Uribe bounces back a bit, but 05 was a career year and he won't repeat it.


Buhrle bounces back after an abnormally bad year.
McCarthy wins 14-17 games replacing Garcia
Contreras remains streaky and ends up about the same
Vasquez improves slightly with another year of treatment from Dr. Cooper.
Garland wins 20.

The bullpen is the big question mark. Cooper will have a lot of projects to work on, but if he can succeed with half of them the way he did with Thornton, and the back end of the rotation continues to play as they did last year, we should be at least slightly better, maybe more.

All this is subject to injuries to the Sox or our competitors, which nobody can predict.

Bottom line: The Sox win 94 in '07, and bring it down to a photo finish with Detroit. Cleveland wins 89, Minnesota 87, KC is way out.

_____

#11

Frater Perdurabo
12-17-2006, 07:25 PM
Assuming that KW believes Terrero can be everything the Sox need as a true 4th OF (can spell Anderson in CF and play occasionally on the corners), then he has addressed every single need the Sox had going into the offseason.

The Sox have:

- assembled power arms for the bullpen for this year;

- stockpiled young arms for the future if they are needed;

- upgraded the backup catcher position;

- presumably found a 4th OF;

- removed any reason Ozzie could give for putting Mackowiak in CF (trading Gload means more backup ABs for Mack at 1B, LF and RF);

- given themselves the payroll flexibility and therefore the luxury of the option - if they choose to exercise it in KW's best judgement - to sign several veterans (Crede, Buehrle, Dye, etc.) to extensions and/or make a big midseason trade to cover for an injury, etc.;

- gotten McCarthy out of the bullpen, where he wasn't very good;

Meanwhile, the Sox have not:

- blown their budget this year or next

- given up valuable draft choices

- given up any significant major league player who would be here after 2007

- given up any significant minor league prospect

- weakened the rotation (McCarthy instead of Garcia is a wash IMHO)

In short, KW has addresed every major concern without hurting the team in any other way. The only other concerns are with players who played below their potential and/or career norms in 2006. Indeed, every season's level of success hinges on the extent to which players play at, below, or above their potential or career norms! And there's nothing a GM can do about this, anyway.

On paper, I have to give KW an "A" for his offseason work to date.

ondafarm
12-17-2006, 07:36 PM
. . .
Bottom line: The Sox win 94 in '07, and bring it down to a photo finish with Detroit. Cleveland wins 89, Minnesota 87, KC is way out.

_____

#11

I think you've overestimated Detroit. I see them closer to Minn.

Grzegorz
12-17-2006, 09:03 PM
I believe KW has made all the necessary moves. I also believe that the Tigers staff will continue to improve; Rogers declines & Maroth performs well over the entire season.

The team I looked to rebound was the Tribe. I was especially impressed with the Barfield move. But then they brought in Showalter...

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-17-2006, 09:15 PM
Bottom line: The Sox win 94 in '07, and bring it down to a photo finish with Detroit. Cleveland wins 89, Minnesota 87, KC is way out.

I have a wierd feeling that KC might actually make somewhat of a splash during the season. They played decent ball near the end of the year. They beat the Sox more often than not.

Corlose 15
12-17-2006, 10:43 PM
Uribe bounces back a bit, but 05 was a career year and he won't repeat it.



I think you mean 2004 was his career year. He only hit like .252 in '05 compared to .283 in '04.

His career average is .258. I'd be pleased with .258 21HR 71RBI from a slick fielding SS batting at the bottom of the order. He's driven in 74, 71, and 71 RBI the last three years so its definitely a possibility.

Lprof
12-18-2006, 10:18 PM
I just want to know how far people think we can go if the roster stays set pretty much as it is.
Can we win the division? Make the Playoffs? Win the Whole thing?

LF Pods
2B Iguchi
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
SS Uribe
CF Anderson/Sweeney

BN Gload
BN Ozuna
BN Mack
BN Cintron
BN Stewart/Catcher

SP Contreras
SP Buehrle (L)
SP Garland
SP Vazquez
SP McCarthy

RP Logan/Tracey/Haegar/?
RP Floyd/?
RP Aardsma
SU Thornton (L)
SU MacDougal
CL Jenks

I think we can go pretty far, although I'm a little worried about the 5th & 6th bullpen spots.
I think Liriano being out will benefit us. Also, I think we'll fly a little bit more "under the radar" this season since we're not defending champs.

I think we'll be back in the playoffs at a minimum.
What do you think? What moves do you see being made, if any?

We are still a good team, because we still have the core of a World Series winner and we aren't too old. But we still have holes, and I am concerned KW hasn't filled them (though admittedly, there is a lot of time left in the off season). We cannot have three near-automatic outs at the end of the lineup. However, I cannot understand your assertion that "we'll be back in the playoffs at a minimum." Why? We weren't last year, and without Freddy I am not sure we are any better (will McCarthy win 17 games? Of course, Freddy might not have won 17 games next year, either, but either way we aren't as good at that spot in the rotation). Meanwhile, Detroit got stronger, Boston got stronger, and Cleveland under performed. A lot might depend on MB in the rotation: which was the real MB, first half or second half?

tomgordon1
12-19-2006, 12:46 AM
SS Uribe
CF Anderson/Sweeney
SP Vazquez
RP Floyd


Those people right there are the reasons we will have a hard chance of making the playoffs. Uribe can't hit for average, Anderson clearly won't have a breakthrough year, hitting 20+ homers, 70+RBI's, and an average atleast over .280, that's farfetched, and then Vazquez, $12.5 million and who knows, he can blow us apart again, he's not worth the money and risk to be on our staff, and Floyd just joined and he's not all of a sudden going to be a superstar. I have much faith in rookies but it ain't gonna work out. Why Kenny, why didn't you take Rowand when you had the chance? We can't have these people on our starting roster. Atleast have Cintron start shortstop, he can hit better than Uribe, or Ozuna, he deserves to be a starter. Try and get Baldelli now that Rowand is out of the picture. And maybe trade Vazquez for someone who isn't overpaid and take the risk there. As for Floyd and the bullpen, it should be just fine but all we really need there is Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, Thornton, and Jenks. Do something to save this team Kenny!!!! :(: :(: :(:

ondafarm
12-19-2006, 01:02 AM
SS Uribe
CF Anderson/Sweeney
SP Vazquez
RP Floyd


Those people right there are the reasons we will have a hard chance of making the playoffs. Uribe can't hit for average, Anderson clearly won't have a breakthrough year, hitting 20+ homers, 70+RBI's, and an average atleast over .280, that's farfetched, and then Vazquez, $12.5 million and who knows, he can blow us apart again, he's not worth the money and risk to be on our staff, and Floyd just joined and he's not all of a sudden going to be a superstar. I have much faith in rookies but it ain't gonna work out. Why Kenny, why didn't you take Rowand when you had the chance? We can't have these people on our starting roster. Atleast have Cintron start shortstop, he can hit better than Uribe, or Ozuna, he deserves to be a starter. Try and get Baldelli now that Rowand is out of the picture. And maybe trade Vazquez for someone who isn't overpaid and take the risk there. As for Floyd and the bullpen, it should be just fine but all we really need there is Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, Thornton, and Jenks. Do something to save this team Kenny!!!! :(: :(: :(:

An early morning :violin::violin:

dwalteroo
12-19-2006, 08:30 AM
We cannot have three near-automatic outs at the end of the lineup.

Exactly! I've been screaming this this offseason - I am all for making mistakes, but they have to be new mistakes, not old ones. I love Uribe and Anderson and Pods, but we need a bat somewhere in there....

caulfield12
12-19-2006, 09:18 AM
SS Uribe
CF Anderson/Sweeney
SP Vazquez
RP Floyd


Those people right there are the reasons we will have a hard chance of making the playoffs. Uribe can't hit for average, Anderson clearly won't have a breakthrough year, hitting 20+ homers, 70+RBI's, and an average atleast over .280, that's farfetched, and then Vazquez, $12.5 million and who knows, he can blow us apart again, he's not worth the money and risk to be on our staff, and Floyd just joined and he's not all of a sudden going to be a superstar. I have much faith in rookies but it ain't gonna work out. Why Kenny, why didn't you take Rowand when you had the chance? We can't have these people on our starting roster. Atleast have Cintron start shortstop, he can hit better than Uribe, or Ozuna, he deserves to be a starter. Try and get Baldelli now that Rowand is out of the picture. And maybe trade Vazquez for someone who isn't overpaid and take the risk there. As for Floyd and the bullpen, it should be just fine but all we really need there is Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, Thornton, and Jenks. Do something to save this team Kenny!!!! :(: :(: :(:

Cintron couldn't start for Arizona, why would he start for us? He's not the same caliber of defender as Uribe and he's not going to put up great OBP numbers and certainly not 20 HR's and 70 RBI's. And, by the way, we won the WS with Uribe.

Rowand is nothing more than an injury-prone 4th outfielder with above-average defensive skills and average to below-average offensive numbers and OBP.

How do you know that Contreras and Buehrle aren't the ones not worth having on our staff? And we're paying Vazquez $9.5 million in actual money, less than Gil Meche, Ted Lilly or Vicente Padilla. There are plenty of teams who would like to have a fourth starter of Vazquez's caliber.

The odds are 50/50 that Floyd or Sisco will be in AAA, let alone making a significant contribution in 2007. Nobody's counting on him yet to do anything but improve on Montero and Tracey.

Baldelli? Do you want to give up two young pitchers and another prospect to get him? That's the current asking price...so tell us all who you would trade to get Mr. Baldelli. And what would you do with Brian Anderson, who would then have little to no value in trade? Start him over Pods in LF? Or do you actually want a guy with a .329 career OBP leading off?

Lprof
12-19-2006, 03:43 PM
I believe KW has made all the necessary moves. I also believe that the Tigers staff will continue to improve; Rogers declines & Maroth performs well over the entire season.

The team I looked to rebound was the Tribe. I was especially impressed with the Barfield move. But then they brought in Showalter...KW has made all the necessary moves??? I like the addition of Hall, and maybe Sisco, but I seriously doubt either Floyd or Gonzales will help this year. Other than adding a Cub reliever, he has done nothing else--except get rid of a 17 game winner. People seem to forget how bad we were in the second half of the year. The mix was somehow wrong. Perhaps everyone will magically go back to their first half form, but I would love to see a better hitting centerfielder/leadoff-ninth place hitter added.

Beauty35thStreet
12-20-2006, 07:47 PM
Does Vasquez have a no-trade clause? I guess I can't figure out why KW couldn't sell Vasquez instead of Garcia for the two prospects. I guess Vasquez has two years vs. one, but still, made no sense to me. If the Sox traded Garland, that would have been disasterous. You could kiss 2007 good-bye and hope that the prospect is amazing in 2010+. Then KW whines about the market, signs a LF that we complained about all year for $2.3 million, why not sign someone good for $6 million? A lot of things I just don't get.

Things could be worse, I could have as my #3 pitcher a 4/40 who went 15-13 and a 3/20 RP that I'm sure someone in their 'A' class could pitch as well as, and being a supporter of that team, I probably wouldn't know the difference.



KW has made all the necessary moves??? I like the addition of Hall, and maybe Sisco, but I seriously doubt either Floyd or Gonzales will help this year. Other than adding a Cub reliever, he has done nothing else--except get rid of a 17 game winner. People seem to forget how bad we were in the second half of the year. The mix was somehow wrong. Perhaps everyone will magically go back to their first half form, but I would love to see a better hitting centerfielder/leadoff-ninth place hitter added.