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View Full Version : The time is now


bigredrudy
12-09-2006, 02:12 PM
Roger C and Andy P started 54 games for the Astros last year. They are both gone. Now they have Oswalt and only Woody Williams behing him. Woody is 40 years old and pitched only 145 innings last year.After the top two are only rookies. In short the Astros are desperate for pitching-especially since they spent all those dollars for C.Lee. The Astros seem anxious to add another starter. Joe Cowley said this morning that Garland wouldn't be traded becasue he is signed for two years. But that is what makes him attractive to other teams.Garland is more valuable than Buehrle because he will not be a free agent after this year. I don't believe that Garland was not seriously discussed. There is too much smoke not to be fire. if the Astros would throw in a reliever-Qualls for example the Sox would have an improved bullpen and an upgrade in center. I think this is an opportunity that should not be missed. I think the GM for the Astros is going to make a deal before X-mas. If the Sox are going to trade another starter this is the time to do it. It will take guts to do this but I think it is the right thing to do.

UserNameBlank
12-09-2006, 02:31 PM
I want KW to wait until after Zito signs. Then, maybe two things can happen:

First, maybe KW and Buehrle can agree on an extension.

Then, maybe KW can take bids on Vazquez and Garland, if KW feels like this offseason is the time to deal him.

If KW can get hefty returns on both Vaz and Jon, maybe he could keep the big pieces and use to the smaller ones to swing a deal for a somewhat cheaper but still quality starter, like Jason Jennings for example. He's rumored to be available and has pitched in a hitters park his whole career so maybe a move to the Cell wouldn't be so bad. He also seems like someone who would be a bit more signable and still realtively easy to unload if things didn't work out.

Heffalump
12-09-2006, 02:31 PM
Roger C and Andy P started 54 games for the Astros last year. They are both gone. Now they have Oswalt and only Woody Williams behing him. Woody is 40 years old and pitched only 145 innings last year.After the top two are only rookies. In short the Astros are desperate for pitching-especially since they spent all those dollars for C.Lee. The Astros seem anxious to add another starter. Joe Cowley said this morning that Garland wouldn't be traded becasue he is signed for two years. But that is what makes him attractive to other teams.Garland is more valuable than Buehrle because he will not be a free agent after this year. I don't believe that Garland was not seriously discussed. There is too much smoke not to be fire. if the Astros would throw in a reliever-Qualls for example the Sox would have an improved bullpen and an upgrade in center. I think this is an opportunity that should not be missed. I think the GM for the Astros is going to make a deal before X-mas. If the Sox are going to trade another starter this is the time to do it. It will take guts to do this but I think it is the right thing to do.

I agree that the Astros look desperate. Kenny should only do it if he gets a very sweet deal, including Hirsch and possibly another of their young guns and a good bullpen arm.

Personally, I could not care less about getting Tavaras, as that means you are giving up on Anderson after only one year. A year in which he was badly misused and confused by Ozzie IMO. Finally, I also believe that Bucholz is an injury prone mega-project and should only be though of as a "throw-in" on any trade.

Just my two cents.

PicktoCLick72
12-09-2006, 03:45 PM
I do not know why some people to get rid of Garland. We are not in a rebuilding phase.

veeter
12-09-2006, 03:53 PM
I do not know why some people to get rid of Garland. We are not in a rebuilding phase.Exactly. And why can't we afford Jon? He's in the books for two years, then pay him on another contract.

Chipol
12-09-2006, 04:53 PM
I do not know why some people to get rid of Garland. We are not in a rebuilding phase.

We make the trade now because we can't afford to reach a rebuilding phase. Our 2006 starting 5 would be worth $75 - 80 million at today's prices. If we wait, that's what we are looking at.

santo=dorf
12-09-2006, 05:35 PM
I do not know why some people to get rid of Garland. We are not in a rebuilding phase.
Because this market doesn't favor the buyer, and there are teams that need starting pitching. If Houston loses Clemens too, they will be desperate for a starter.

Sell high.

Zisk77
12-09-2006, 06:04 PM
My two cents are that IF we have to trade Jon, then lets do it in the LAST year of his contract.

WhiteSox5187
12-09-2006, 06:10 PM
Yea, I don't want to trade a combined 34 wins. That's a lot to make up. I think McCarthy can fill in for Garcia and win twelve games maybe and Burhle will be up to form and be able to pick up the slack. But by trading a way Garland you create a hole in the rotation that is not so easy to repair, especially by this Floyd fellow, he got lit up in the NL so I shrudder at the tought of what AL hitting will do to him. Keep Garland.

Heffalump
12-09-2006, 06:34 PM
Yea, I don't want to trade a combined 34 wins. That's a lot to make up. I think McCarthy can fill in for Garcia and win twelve games maybe and Burhle will be up to form and be able to pick up the slack. But by trading a way Garland you create a hole in the rotation that is not so easy to repair, especially by this Floyd fellow, he got lit up in the NL so I shrudder at the tought of what AL hitting will do to him. Keep Garland.

If you can get a few mega prospects from the 'Stros for him, plus some smaller piece(s) you make the deal. But the proposed deal from earlier in the week would not be enough for me to trade away Garland. Depending on what Clemens decides to do, the Sox might be able to pull this off.

MRM
12-09-2006, 07:05 PM
If you can get a few mega prospects from the 'Stros for him, plus some smaller piece(s) you make the deal. But the proposed deal from earlier in the week would not be enough for me to trade away Garland. Depending on what Clemens decides to do, the Sox might be able to pull this off.

Pull what off? Trade a starter who has won 36 games over the last two years and is under a favorable contract for two more years for a relief pitcher, a mediocre CF, and a prospect or two? That creates a hole in the rotation on top of it. Who becomes the 5th starter? You've got to have someone you are convinced can handle the 5th starter spot before you even consider that kind of deal. The Sox don't.

23Ventura
12-09-2006, 07:54 PM
Pull what off? Trade a starter who has won 36 games over the last two years and is under a favorable contract for two more years for a relief pitcher, a mediocre CF, and a prospect or two? That creates a hole in the rotation on top of it. Who becomes the 5th starter? You've got to have someone you are convinced can handle the 5th starter spot before you even consider that kind of deal. The Sox don't.
Agreed. I didn't mind the Garcia trade because the Sox have McCarthy to take his place in the rotation. I wouldn't be surprised at all if McCarthy puts up numbers comprable to Freddy. If we traded Garland, however, I don't think we could just put someone in his place and expect him to be as good. Even if we got a good prospect, it's still risky.

Daver
12-09-2006, 07:58 PM
Let me get this straight.

You want to trade a starting pitcher that in the last three years has compiled a record of 48-28, has pitched over two hundred innings in each of those years, has two years left on a reasonable contract, and is at an age when most pitchers start becoming aces, for prospects?

It is obvious to see why you are not a GM of a proffesional baseball team.

michned
12-09-2006, 08:11 PM
I think the big problem that so many people have with Kenny and Jerry's "mission statement" is, they are considering weakening the staff in '07 in the hopes that it will be stronger in '08 and '09. They got rid of one starter for two younger guys. That's fine, that was the plan all along because of McCarthy and I'm sure they felt the Phillie offer was the best one available.

But to trade a second stud pitcher for a couple prospects, this smacks of small market thinking and it's really disheartening to see a return to that. I want them to be as strong as possible in '07. As a fan, that's what I care about right now. Kenny is wrong saying things like the fans will be angry in '08 and '09 when they won't re-sign the studs because the market is so insane for pitching.

Come on, they're good enough to win it all in '07. GO FOR IT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!:angry::angry:

They always said if fans fill the park they'll spend more on the team, and they have, I don't deny that. But now it seems like they are going back to their stubborn ways of refusing to accept the market realities of player salaries.

HotelWhiteSox
12-09-2006, 08:13 PM
Roger C and Andy P started 54 games for the Astros last year. They are both gone. Now they have Oswalt and only Woody Williams behing him. Woody is 40 years old and pitched only 145 innings last year.After the top two are only rookies. In short the Astros are desperate for pitching-especially since they spent all those dollars for C.Lee. The Astros seem anxious to add another starter. Joe Cowley said this morning that Garland wouldn't be traded becasue he is signed for two years. But that is what makes him attractive to other teams.Garland is more valuable than Buehrle because he will not be a free agent after this year. I don't believe that Garland was not seriously discussed. There is too much smoke not to be fire. if the Astros would throw in a reliever-Qualls for example the Sox would have an improved bullpen and an upgrade in center. I think this is an opportunity that should not be missed. I think the GM for the Astros is going to make a deal before X-mas. If the Sox are going to trade another starter this is the time to do it. It will take guts to do this but I think it is the right thing to do.

A 4 man rotation where each guy has a question mark attached. No thanks. You had one to give away, you got your prospects for him, too late. And I don't think Taveras is a big updrade from Anderson, give Brian the atbats that Taveras gets and then call me. No doubt the bullpen needs help, we'll see what comes of that

michned
12-09-2006, 08:20 PM
A 4 man rotation where each guy has a question mark attached. No thanks. You had one to give away, you got your prospects for him, too late. And I don't think Taveras is a big updrade from Anderson, give Brian the atbats that Taveras gets and then call me. No doubt the bullpen needs help, we'll see what comes of that

Amen!!

There aren't many guys that come up and pull a Fred Lynn and win ROY and MVP their first year. If they believe in BA (which I hope), play him every day out there. If they don't, trade him for some speed.