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GoSox2K3
12-08-2006, 09:56 AM
Since Phil Rogers and Rick Morrissey's hatchet jobs against the Sox got their own threads, I think it's only fair to mention a Trib article that (surprise!) gives a fair description of the Sox moves.

I hope Mark Gonzalez isn't counting on a Christmas bonus this year. :tongue:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061207soxgarland,1,2730994.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

Noteworthy quotes:
"I've tried to explain our mission statement over and over, but I'm kind of resigned to the thought that whatever we do isn't good enough or understood," Williams said....

"In the case of Joe Crede, how many times did you hear get rid of Joe Crede?" Williams said. "Jon Garland. Don't bring in A.J. Pierzynski. What are you doing with Scott Podsednik? Are you nuts? Juan Uribe, he can't play shortstop. Aaron Rowand, he can't play center field. And then when I traded Aaron Rowand, it was like 'What are you doing? You traded the best center fielder in the game.'.....

"But you know what would be more unpopular?" Williams said. "It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent."

VASoxfan1
12-08-2006, 10:31 AM
KW is a smart guy and he understands on how the media works. And he's not gonna break from his plan despite what any tribune writer decides to say. He's put together consistent winning teams since he's become GM. I trust what he's doing.

Hitmen77
12-08-2006, 11:34 AM
Another good article:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/165037,CST-SPT-cowley08.article

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 12:38 PM
Since Phil Rogers and Rick Morrissey's hatchet jobs against the Sox got their own threads, I think it's only fair to mention a Trib article that (surprise!) gives a fair description of the Sox moves.

I hope Mark Gonzalez isn't counting on a Christmas bonus this year. :tongue:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061207soxgarland,1,2730994.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

Noteworthy quotes:


The Rogers article was VERY GOOD. Nothing really wrong with Morrisseys article either .........

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 12:41 PM
I love Kenny Williams "....then we'd be scrounging for left-over talent, and overpaying for mediocre talent" comment. That was a direct slap-in-the-face to Jim Hendry. NICE.

caulfield12
12-08-2006, 12:43 PM
The Rogers article was VERY GOOD. Nothing really wrong with Morrisseys article either .........

Have you considered buying some property down in Jonestown?

Seriously, whatever the "kool aid" the JR/KW apologists spew, you drink up the opposite up just as thirstingly...

Maybe Oliver Stone can bring you in as a Production Assistant...."How Chicago Was Won/One: The Remarkable Story of the 2007 Chicago Cubs"

cheezheadsoxfan
12-08-2006, 12:45 PM
Another good article:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/165037,CST-SPT-cowley08.article

Thanks. That was refreshing, particularly:

"Baseball needs to take a good look at itself when Ted Lilly, with a career 59-58 record and 4.60 ERA, is chased by a pack of teams for his services -- services that ended up costing the Cubs $40 million over four years. The Sox have chosen not to be held hostage by mediocrity, while at the same time trying to compete."

Too bad they also have The Moron writing for them or I might read it occasionally.

bestkosher
12-08-2006, 01:01 PM
"But you know what would be more unpopular?" Williams said. "It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent."



hmm wonder who Kenny is describing there?

TheOldRoman
12-08-2006, 01:10 PM
The Rogers article was VERY GOOD. Nothing really wrong with Morrisseys article either .........
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
You are like a cartoon character.

The Immigrant
12-08-2006, 01:17 PM
The Rogers article was VERY GOOD. Nothing really wrong with Morrisseys article either .........

Lots of room for psychoanalysis here...

PaulDrake
12-08-2006, 01:19 PM
The Rogers article was VERY GOOD. Nothing really wrong with Morrisseys article either ......... Ditto for Joe Cowley's article in the Sun Times which take much the same perspective as Gonzalez in the Tribune. There's two ways you can look at what KW is doing and only time will tell. IMHO the Garcia trade standing alone is a lousy one, and I don't like or drink Kool Aid.

soxtalker
12-08-2006, 01:31 PM
The Rogers article was VERY GOOD. Nothing really wrong with Morrisseys article either .........

I think that we tend to over react to these columnists. Rogers and Morrissey obviously do not like the approach that Kenny seems to be moving toward. Cowley seemed to go the other direction. Guess what, you can find that same spectrum represented here on WSI! And it probably makes better reading (gets a reaction from readers) if they err on the side of hyperbole. I don't mean that they are just making it up, or that they are trying to trash the team. Rather, they probably care a great deal about the direction of the team -- just like a lot of us here on WSI. It's in their best interests to have a vibrant contending team on the south side (as well as one on the north side).

I happen to be in favor of the Garcia trade and the general move toward trading for good prospects. And, yes, I was furious when I read Morrissey's article, as I figured that he was missing some obvious points on the other side. But, then again, his arguments do bring out the weaknesses of Kenny's approach -- it is fraught with risk. (Unfortunately, staying the course also has its risks.)

TheOldRoman
12-08-2006, 01:44 PM
I think that we tend to over react to these columnists. Rogers and Morrissey obviously do not like the approach that Kenny seems to be moving toward. Cowley seemed to go the other direction. Guess what, you can find that same spectrum represented here on WSI! And it probably makes better reading (gets a reaction from readers) if they err on the side of hyperbole. I don't mean that they are just making it up, or that they are trying to trash the team. Rather, they probably care a great deal about the direction of the team -- just like a lot of us here on WSI. It's in their best interests to have a vibrant contending team on the south side (as well as one on the north side).

I happen to be in favor of the Garcia trade and the general move toward trading for good prospects. And, yes, I was furious when I read Morrissey's article, as I figured that he was missing some obvious points on the other side. But, then again, his arguments do bring out the weaknesses of Kenny's approach -- it is fraught with risk. (Unfortunately, staying the course also has its risks.)
Morrisey has shown himself to be nothing but a media troll. It isn't that he disagreed with KW's philosophy, it is that he had to be a troll and tell Sox fans how horrible the team was no matter what KW did.
If we didn't trade a starter, Morrisey would write

...and this shows just how (un)smart the Sox' front office is. Sox fans, all 14 of them, can be disgusted with the lack of vision of enginuity of the front office. They will lose Buehrle and Garcia this offseason, and get nothing for them. Who will step in, Sox fans? Calling Jon Rausch. This team has no vision, and no desire to build the perennial powerhouse they claimed they wanted. From the Atlanta Braves to the Colorado Rockies in one offseason. It is becoming more and more clear that they don't care if Sox fans wait another 88 years. Black Sox scandal, White Flag Trade, migdet batting, Disco Demolition Night, wearing shorts - it's all coming back for Sox fans. At least Chicago has a team it can be proud of - the Cubs. Dial 1-800-CUBS-GAME for tickets.
And Hangar would still write how Morrisey has a point.:rolleyes:

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 03:04 PM
Have you considered buying some property down in Jonestown?

Seriously, whatever the "kool aid" the JR/KW apologists spew, you drink up the opposite up just as thirstingly...

Maybe Oliver Stone can bring you in as a Production Assistant...."How Chicago Was Won/One: The Remarkable Story of the 2007 Chicago Cubs"


So in other words, you dont like that Phil Rogers had an opinion about something? Because it was different from yours? Now ..... if the SOX run out and pay 10 Million for 1 year of Roger Clemens, you can say he was full of it.

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 03:08 PM
Ditto for Joe Cowley's article in the Sun Times which take much the same perspective as Gonzalez in the Tribune. There's two ways you can look at what KW is doing and only time will tell. IMHO the Garcia trade standing alone is a lousy one, and I don't like or drink Kool Aid.


Thank You. The SOX havnt announced to the fanbase what their 2007 "Plan" is. Maybe they sent out an email to a select few here like OldRoman and I just didnt get it yet (stupid email).

Until then, I dont think the SOX had a plan going into this thing, and maybe, just maybe they are going this other route. Only time will tell is right, but Rogers certainly made a point, especially when he quoted a couple of anonymous GM's at the meetings.

But having a theory different from everyone else is a bit much for some people these days .....

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 03:11 PM
And Hangar would still write how Morrisey has a point.:rolleyes:

Say, im the first guy that will tell you that I dont like Morrissey. I didnt have a problem with this article, I just thought he took the Angry-Sox-Fans point of view here. Big Deal. Please, spare me the Hangar-loves-Morrissey posts

TheOldRoman
12-08-2006, 03:24 PM
Say, im the first guy that will tell you that I dont like Morrissey. I didnt have a problem with this article, I just thought he took the Angry-Sox-Fans point of view here. Big Deal. Please, spare me the Hangar-loves-Morrissey posts
No, he took the dumbass-naysayer-troll point of view. There is no excuse for Morriseey's column, it was yellow journalism at its worst. It was of the same ilk as his "3/4 of the people at the Sox parade were Cubs fans and Chicago will always be a Cubs town" disgrace. I think that came during the time you were banned/on hiatus for being Cubsessed. He doesn't write this **** to get his views heard, he writes it to piss of Sox fans, and get the bandwagoners to panic and jump back to the Cubs, pleasing his bosses.

I don't understand how you continue to whine that the "SOX get no respect FROM THEIR OWN MEDIA" but then fall over backwards to agree with them when they present a ridiculous, unrealistic gloom-and-doom scenario that involves the Sox falling to 5th place and the Cubs ruling the universe. Morrissey's column was pandering to the idiots, and you took the bait. He is no better than Marriotti. Kenny Williams had a plan before he went to the winter meetings, and he stuck with it. Since he made the comment "The White Sox are still open for bussiness" and it isn't April yet, he still has a lot up his sleeve. He won a World Series by doing it his way, and he obviously didn't consult you when he started the "Jermaine Dye experiment". Either go out and buy an Astros hat and a Satelite dish so you can watch your hero Carlos Lee, or give Williams time and trust that he knows what he is doing.

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 06:07 PM
No, he took the dumbass-naysayer-troll point of view. There is no excuse for Morriseey's column, it was yellow journalism at its worst. It was of the same ilk as his "3/4 of the people at the Sox parade were Cubs fans and Chicago will always be a Cubs town" disgrace. I think that came during the time you were banned/on hiatus for being Cubsessed. He doesn't write this **** to get his views heard, he writes it to piss of Sox fans, and get the bandwagoners to panic and jump back to the Cubs, pleasing his bosses.

I don't understand how you continue to whine that the "SOX get no respect FROM THEIR OWN MEDIA" but then fall over backwards to agree with them when they present a ridiculous, unrealistic gloom-and-doom scenario that involves the Sox falling to 5th place and the Cubs ruling the universe. Morrissey's column was pandering to the idiots, and you took the bait. He is no better than Marriotti. Kenny Williams had a plan before he went to the winter meetings, and he stuck with it. Since he made the comment "The White Sox are still open for bussiness" and it isn't April yet, he still has a lot up his sleeve. He won a World Series by doing it his way, and he obviously didn't consult you when he started the "Jermaine Dye experiment". Either go out and buy an Astros hat and a Satelite dish so you can watch your hero Carlos Lee, or give Williams time and trust that he knows what he is doing.


I cant even read your post man .............. its that ridiculous.
Turn the computer off, have a drink man

Beer Can Chicken
12-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Since Phil Rogers and Rick Morrissey's hatchet jobs against the Sox got their own threads, I think it's only fair to mention a Trib article that (surprise!) gives a fair description of the Sox moves.

I hope Mark Gonzalez isn't counting on a Christmas bonus this year. :tongue:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061207soxgarland,1,2730994.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

Noteworthy quotes:

It might be a 'fair' description because Gonzalez is a reporter whereas Rogers and Morrissey are columnists. What a novel concept.

PaulDrake
12-08-2006, 07:28 PM
The circle the wagon mentality gets tiresome at times. It's OK to think the Sox got fleeced, because they very well may have. It's also OK to think that this is a smart move that will pay dividends in the future. Only time will tell. I find it amusing that Hangar gets slammed for supposedly seeing an anti Sox media conspiracy under every bed, then gets slammed worse for not slamming some local writers who've taken the Sox to task for trading Freddy Garcia for a prospect and a major project.

daveeym
12-08-2006, 07:46 PM
I cant even read your post man .............. its that ridiculous.
Turn the computer off, have a drink man Hahahah, i thought that was one of his better, and more accurate, posts actually. I think he nailed it on the head. If the sox trade another starter the doom and gloom is well deserved. As it stands now they traded from a strength that was well known to all that one starter was going to leave.

Ultimately they traded the malcontent and maybe lost a little bit of value in the trade. But many would say given Garcia's contract and attitude we got great value along with getting rid of the rotten apple in the bunch.

If everyone wasn't expecting a trade for arod, v wells, some of the Texas jokers etc. they'd probably love this trade. They'd wish we could have fleeced someone and gotten more but realistically would say, "hey we got two young talents back for a basket case red headed step child." No offense to any red headed step children on the board. :cool:

TheOldRoman
12-09-2006, 01:16 AM
Hahahah, i thought that was one of his better, and more accurate, posts actually.
:?:I don't know whether that is a compliment or an insult.

:)

GoSox2K3
12-09-2006, 10:02 AM
The circle the wagon mentality gets tiresome at times. It's OK to think the Sox got fleeced, because they very well may have. It's also OK to think that this is a smart move that will pay dividends in the future. Only time will tell. I find it amusing that Hangar gets slammed for supposedly seeing an anti Sox media conspiracy under every bed, then gets slammed worse for not slamming some local writers who've taken the Sox to task for trading Freddy Garcia for a prospect and a major project.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone is going to be "slamming" Hangar around here in the near future.

daveeym
12-09-2006, 10:47 AM
:?:I don't know whether that is a compliment or an insult.

:)Compliment. You can get on a rant at times, that post was more on point then some. They always lead to some good discussion though. :D:

PaulDrake
12-09-2006, 09:37 PM
Don't worry, I don't think anyone is going to be "slamming" Hangar around here in the near future. I'm always the last to know what's going on here.