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Lip Man 1
12-07-2006, 10:04 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-061207morrissey,1,3453082.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

JermaineDye05
12-07-2006, 10:10 PM
Typical Cubune, Morrissey has no idea what he's talking about. That has got to be the worst article I've ever read, he says Kenny has brain trauma? is he the one thats throwing away money for mediocre players?

HotelWhiteSox
12-07-2006, 10:11 PM
I was mad right after the trade, but it makes a lot more sense to me after thinking about it, I think the issue was whether we got enough, but this articles' issue is that we weren't supposed to trade Freddy at all, which is pretty dumb. It also makes some dumb assumptions that Kenny isn't going to do anything else all winter or try to improve on some weaknesses that would put us up there as a contender again. The depth we have combined with the Freddy move can keep us as a contender this year and even more so in the future, my issue is not waiting a little, seeing if someone would throw in a reliever or catch someone while they're desperate

And why do they keep tieing the Cubs. I could care less if their GM made a deal from the hospital, doesn't make much sense since it was for a player no one else wanted (esp at that price), my God, it's not like there's a deadline to sign and/or trade players that ended late last night.

Beer Can Chicken
12-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Can't say I disagree with this statement.

'Get value now, they say.

Whatever happened to winning now?'

However, if McCarthy pitches lights out, we forget about Freddy. Very quickly.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-07-2006, 10:14 PM
What Rick fails to mention is Garcia has lost 4-6 MPH on his fastball could not hold a runner on to save his life and at times was prone to showing up his teammates on the field. Yes we know he closed out the season very strong but when we needed him the most last year 1 game that comes to mind is Labor day weekend against KC when he was lit up. Was Garcia a good pitcher for the Sox of course he was but we all knew he was pretty much a goner this off-season, what Mr. Morrissey needs to figure out is that the off-season does not end the day the winter meetings end it is a long time to April 2.

Corlose 15
12-07-2006, 10:16 PM
:rolleyes: Right Rick, Garcia was the key to this staff. He mentions what a great rotation we had and then says that we still don't have any pitching.

The Sox are hardly giving up on 2007. I'm willing to bet that McCarthy has a better year than Garcia.

samram
12-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Another ****ty column by Rick, who used to be good, but seems to have reduced himself to shill.

The window on another championship was still open as of Wednesday, but it looks as though the Sox slammed it shut, right on your fingers, Sox fans.

Interesting. I didn't know Wednesday was the last day to make moves this offseason.

In terms of championships, this is what Williams is saying to Sox fans: One and done. You have your 2005 World Series. Shut up and be happy.

:rolleyes:

soxfan123
12-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Ahhhhh. I hate Morissey. It just seems like going into every Sox article, like all Cubune writers, that we were wrong. No, not this time. I trust Kenny. I really do. "In terms of championships, this is what Williams is saying to Sox fans: One and done. You have your 2005 World Series. Shut up and be happy."
What an idiot! This is the same exact thing Kenny did in 2005!! Trust me, there's more to this. We will see someone significant come to our club come opening day.

ChiSoxGirl
12-07-2006, 10:18 PM
Based on everyone's comments on the article so far, I'm not even going to put myself through reading the article. I'd rather not have to gouge my eyes out when I'm done. :rolleyes:

Iwritecode
12-07-2006, 10:18 PM
Until a few days ago, the Sox had the best starting rotation in baseball. Now they have a reduced-calorie staff and an immediate future that has gone from bright to partly cloudy in a matter of 48 hours.

I don't necessarily agree with this statement. In 2005, yes. None of them came close to their 2005 numbers though.

That "best starting rotation in baseball" only got us 90 wins and good tee times in October... :rolleyes:

Corlose 15
12-07-2006, 10:20 PM
I'm also willing to bet that Morrisey was one of the countless people saying they should have put McCarthy into the rotation last year. Now he's trashing them for doing that?

cws05champ
12-07-2006, 10:23 PM
These Tribune guys are just doing plain irresposible journalism with comments like this:


"The Sox were quick to shoot those reports down, but usually where there's smoke with this team, there's a fire sale."



In terms of championships, this is what Williams is saying to Sox fans: One and done. You have your 2005 World Series. Shut up and be happy.


The rush to get 23-year-old Brandon McCarthy into the rotation borders on the bizarre. He has shown flashes of talent but just that—flashes. Oh, wait. It's not so bizarre. McCarthy comes cheap.


If McCarthy were on the North side, he would be the next Messiah!

The window on another championship was still open as of Wednesday, but it looks as though the Sox slammed it shut, right on your fingers, Sox fans.


These guys are towing their company line trying to drive a wedge between Sox fans and the team at the same time their team is spending big time trying to create good PR and buzz. What a bunch of crap!

23Ventura
12-07-2006, 10:25 PM
Garcia threw back-to-back one-hitters late last season, and it got him sent to Philadelphia on Wednesday for pitchers Gavin Floyd (4-3 last year, 7.29 earned-run average) and Gio Gonzalez.

I guess the other 31 starts Garcia made don't matter. This article is complete bull****. The Sox are still in great shape to contend for a penant next year.

Domeshot17
12-07-2006, 10:28 PM
Hmmmm

Brandon has shown more then Rich Hill

having Brandon in the rotation is bad

Adding Ted Lilly to Rich Hill, THATS HOW YOU WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

I stopped caring, He works for a company that owns a team known secondly as the lovable losers. 88 win seasons are victories, steroid use is just a big joke and players are defined on how much they make, not on how much they produce.

The truth is, Sports Writers no nothing about sports. Most of them did not play sports in high school or college, they were on the paper. They know nothing about business because they got degrees to write. So in essence, they get paid to do a job they know how to do, which is write about something they have no idea about. THAT IS WHY THEY WORK FOR THE TRIBUNE

SABRSox
12-07-2006, 10:30 PM
That is a truly stupid article. Wow. No mention that Garcia was garbage. No mention that McCarthy needs a spot in the rotation. Nope.

The more that people bitch about the trade, the more I think Kenny did the right thing.

Corlose 15
12-07-2006, 10:35 PM
These Tribune guys are just doing plain irresposible journalism with comments like this:







If McCarthy were on the North side, he would be the next Messiah!



These guys are towing their company line trying to drive a wedge between Sox fans and the team at the same time their team is spending big time trying to create good PR and buzz. What a bunch of crap!


Don't you just love how he tries to come off all buddy buddy to sox fans with his tone in the article too? What a tool.:rolleyes:

Hitmen77
12-07-2006, 10:55 PM
Typical Tribune hatchet job on the Sox.

Interestingly, the non-Cubune columns I have read regarding this trade have at least understood KW's approach in this trade.

cheezheadsoxfan
12-07-2006, 11:11 PM
So glad I checked here and saved my sanity by reading that crap. The Cubune is really getting shameless.

GoSox2K3
12-07-2006, 11:12 PM
Can someone please tell Rogers and Morrissey that KW never said he was going to gut the Sox rotation or cut their payroll.

I think it's reasonable to question whether the Sox got as much as they could from this trade, but these 2 Cubune articles are just shameless. Can the Tribune be any more transparent in trying to get fans to stop going to Sox games? Both writers make very ridiculous statements. "where there's smoke there's a fire sale"....*****!!!

Blueprint1
12-07-2006, 11:15 PM
This is starting to make me angry. We didn't trade Garland so the fire sale that didn't happen never happend. We needed to trade a starter and Garcia or Vazquez were the only two I thought were acceptable to trade. He traded one of them. Did he get what I expected? No but if one of these kids turns out it was a good trade. Just because he wants the sox to have a fire sale doesn't mean that is going to happen. I bet the sox make another trade this week. I think It might be with the O's

JB98
12-07-2006, 11:46 PM
Hmmmm

Brandon has shown more then Rich Hill

having Brandon in the rotation is bad

Adding Ted Lilly to Rich Hill, THATS HOW YOU WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

I stopped caring, He works for a company that owns a team known secondly as the lovable losers. 88 win seasons are victories, steroid use is just a big joke and players are defined on how much they make, not on how much they produce.

The truth is, Sports Writers no nothing about sports. Most of them did not play sports in high school or college, they were on the paper. They know nothing about business because they got degrees to write. So in essence, they get paid to do a job they know how to do, which is write about something they have no idea about. THAT IS WHY THEY WORK FOR THE TRIBUNE

What about those of us who are assistant sports editors? :D:

At least I don't work for the Cubune. :cool:

schmitty9800
12-07-2006, 11:51 PM
I love how he implies that the deal was Garland for Tavarez and Bucholz. KW wanted Hirsh but the Astros wouldn't give him up, deal over.

The sports columns have gotten abysmal in this town, even Telander wrote an awful one about Lovie this week.

I admit I was skeptical about Freddy's deal, but to call this a fire sale is just idiocy.

SluggersAway
12-07-2006, 11:52 PM
The critics of this article have been drinking way too much kool-aid and need to step away from the refrigerator.

We all love the Sox, but just step back and think about what just happened without any emotion.

fusillirob1983
12-08-2006, 01:34 AM
The critics of this article have been drinking way too much kool-aid and need to step away from the refrigerator.

We all love the Sox, but just step back and think about what just happened without any emotion.

I'll look at it objectively.

Did Kenny trade Freddy for nothing that will help us this year? Probably.

Is our rotation worse today than it was on Tuesday? Probably not.

It's still only Dec. 8th.

Rick Morrissey is acting like the Sox just got rid of Thome, Konerko, and Dye for Floyd and Gonzalez.

doogiec
12-08-2006, 06:32 AM
This of course is coming from the same writer who predicted a Cubs division title last year. Maybe he meant to say "worst", not "first" and the editors didn't catch the error.

The Sox had six starting pitchers. They traded one (with possible arm and attitude problems) for a couple of minor leaguers, like probably 28 other teams in the league would have done had they been fortunate enough to be in that situation. The Tribune starts calling it a "fire sale", acts like its the dismantling of the Marlins, and a bunch of Sox fans follow their nonsense like sheep. Truly pathetic.

nccwsfan
12-08-2006, 06:41 AM
The critics of this article have been drinking way too much kool-aid and need to step away from the refrigerator.

We all love the Sox, but just step back and think about what just happened without any emotion.

2006 Rotation
Buehrle
Garcia
Contreras
Garland
Vazquez

2007 Rotation
Buehrle
Contreras
Garland
Vazquez
McCarthy

My initial reaction was surprise that they didn't get more for Garcia, but the trade fills KW's goal (make the CWS competitive now and in the future). I have zero problems going into 2007 with that rotation in place.

As a Sox fan I thought Morrissey's article was misinformed.

VASoxfan1
12-08-2006, 07:48 AM
Since when did teams become cheap for having $100mil payrolls? He tries to make the argument that the Sox are being cheap because attendance increased but payroll isn't. Taking a look at it I'm not surprised its staying the same. The increase in attendance this year is probably offset by the revenues they got in '05 for the playoffs. So it seems reasonable to assume that a payroll of $100mil is to be expected in the near future.

Also the argument that this is the market now for players (aka 4/$40 for questionable 3/4 pitchers). As my mother liked to tell me back in the day, "two wrongs don't make a right" (or in this case 10 or 11)

GoSox2K3
12-08-2006, 08:16 AM
The critics of this article have been drinking way too much kool-aid and need to step away from the refrigerator.

We all love the Sox, but just step back and think about what just happened without any emotion.

Yeah, this was all about Reinsdorf's bottom line of cutting payroll. I'm so sick of the Sox and their "having some plan for the future". They drew as much as the Cubs, so why can't they spend $10 million/year for 4 years for someone like Ted Lilly or Gil Meche!

You know, this whole Reinsdorf era just stinks. Since 1990, look at all the 90-loss seasons we have racked up (none) because of his cheapness and we never even get to sniff a 90-win season (6 times) or the postseason because he cares more about money than the fans.

rdwj
12-08-2006, 08:22 AM
Here is my favorite line...

The rush to get 23-year-old Brandon McCarthy into the rotation borders on the bizarre.

Rush?? Wasn't he ready LAST year?? Weren't fans and the media begging to get him into the starting rotation?? This is no rush - we've been expecting McCarthy to be a starter for QUITE a while now.

PaulDrake
12-08-2006, 08:31 AM
No mention that Garcia was garbage. I'm assuming your cyber name means you're into stats. Garcia was not stellar last year, but he was hardly garbage.

rdivaldi
12-08-2006, 08:55 AM
I usually defend Rick, but that was one of the worst articles he's written in a very long time. It sounded more like an angry fan venting than a professional journalist. A wag of the finger towards you Mr. Morrissey.

Dan H
12-08-2006, 09:03 AM
The Morrissey column was not a hatchet job.

We will see what else the Sox will do, and I don't think unloading Garcia in itself will ruin the Sox. However, I expect more in return for a front line pitcher than a pitcher with an ERA over seven in the National League. This trade stinks.

Face it, Garcia was traded because he was expensive and Floyd is cheap. And if that is how the Sox are going to solve their pitching problems, the post season will be a pipe dream.

I don't expect the team to throw millions at people like Ted Lilly. Money should be spent wisely. But one thing is not going to change: pitching is expensive. Going cheap won't win you anything.

Paulwny
12-08-2006, 09:13 AM
I don't expect the team to throw millions at people like Ted Lilly. Money should be spent wisely. But one thing is not going to change: pitching is expensive. Going cheap won't win you anything.

Thank you, good pitching will always cost $$$$., and it'll be a long season without good pitching.

Luke
12-08-2006, 09:13 AM
I don't expect the team to throw millions at people like Ted Lilly. Money should be spent wisely. But one thing is not going to change: pitching is expensive. Going cheap won't win you anything.

I don't know about that. We had the highest payroll in the division and finished third. I know the Tigers didn't exactly go cheap, but they have a lot of good young arms, and stand to be good for a while. I don't think you compete with that by keeping an aging expense staff intact. Especially when the ERA was a whole point higher last year.

Ol' No. 2
12-08-2006, 09:24 AM
The recent news that the Sox have passed the Cubs in popularity has the Cubune in full court press. Every article is about how Kenny and Jerry are in full White Flag mode. So what's new?

infohawk
12-08-2006, 09:25 AM
What Rick fails to mention is Garcia has lost 4-6 MPH on his fastball could not hold a runner on to save his life and at times was prone to showing up his teammates on the field. Yes we know he closed out the season very strong but when we needed him the most last year 1 game that comes to mind is Labor day weekend against KC when he was lit up. Was Garcia a good pitcher for the Sox of course he was but we all knew he was pretty much a goner this off-season, what Mr. Morrissey needs to figure out is that the off-season does not end the day the winter meetings end it is a long time to April 2.
Morrissey's article is more about hysteria than intelligent baseball reasoning. Here's where he's the most dishonest. While he touts Freddy as a 17 game winner, he somehow fails to mention that his ERA was a fairly robust 4.53. Not to mention what the above poster correctly states about the loss of velocity on his fastball. So, in Morrissey's mind, KW trades a pitcher who has lost velocity and had a 4.53 ERA (but benefited from outstanding run-support) and somehow the opportunity for the Sox to win a championship is gone. Oh, and KW won't spend tens of millions of dollars on mediocrity and suckage. Time to break out the old "Sox are cheap" script. Unbelievable.

I'll bet Morrissey would lead the charge of condemnation if KW let the rotation become old and ineffective, or lost these guys to free agency. Then he would write about how short-sighted the Sox were in not trading for young pitching.

At least Morrissey left himself a little wiggle-room in case further moves by KW this offseason strengthen the club. I still think the biggest area that needs to be addressed is the bullpen. I also like knowing that the Sox have a couple of major league-ready arms backing up the rotation in case we need some spot starts (Floyd and Haeger --although they could be in the bullpen). It's not as flashy as a big-name starter may be, but there's some value in depth.

southside rocks
12-08-2006, 09:37 AM
The recent news that the Sox have passed the Cubs in popularity has the Cubune in full court press. Every article is about how Kenny and Jerry are in full White Flag mode. So what's new?

Bingo. Expect more of the same for the rest of the off-season. :tongue:

Vernam
12-08-2006, 09:39 AM
What about those of us who are assistant sports editors? :D:

At least I don't work for the Cubune. :cool:You guys don't "no nothing" neither. :wink:

Today's Morrissey column was just part of a full assault on the Sox by the Trib sports section. The bad old days are back, in that regard. Jim Hendry "keeps plugging away," the headline says, inking as many mediocre players to superstar contracts as his stubby little fingers can sign. Meanwhile, evil Kenny and Darth Jerry are busy preying on the hopes and good intentions of 3 million Sox fans. ***? There are a couple of guys writing about baseball for McGrath who still have a shred of dignity left -- Downey and, maybe, Rogers. The rest have now got their minds right and are trying to bolster the corporation as it sells off major assets.

Let me preface this by saying I'll always have great affection for the 2005 starters who brought home that championship. But none of these guys is a cinch Hall of Famer. In other words, none of them is untouchable. To say that we should invest in them for 2007 and beyond based on what they did in 2005 is the same logic that led Hendry's team down the rat hole where they now reside. Don't try selling that crap on the South Side, Mr. Morrissey. I'd like to think our fans are a bit more discerning.

Here's the key quote from Kenny on page 5 of today's Trib sports section (and that's the last free advertising I'm going to give that rag): "But you know what would be more unpopular (than trading Garcia)? It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent."

Vernam

DumpJerry
12-08-2006, 09:56 AM
I am now convinced that Homefish=Morrissey.

Ol' No. 2
12-08-2006, 09:59 AM
You guys don't "no nothing" neither. :wink:

Today's Morrissey column was just part of a full assault on the Sox by the Trib sports section. The bad old days are back, in that regard. Jim Hendry "keeps plugging away," the headline says, inking as many mediocre players to superstar contracts as his stubby little fingers can sign. Meanwhile, evil Kenny and Darth Jerry are busy preying on the hopes and good intentions of 3 million Sox fans. ***? There are a couple of guys writing about baseball for McGrath who still have a shred of dignity left -- Downey and, maybe, Rogers. The rest have now got their minds right and are trying to bolster the corporation as it sells off major assets.

Let me preface this by saying I'll always have great affection for the 2005 starters who brought home that championship. But none of these guys is a cinch Hall of Famer. In other words, none of them is untouchable. To say that we should invest in them for 2007 and beyond based on what they did in 2005 is the same logic that led Hendry's team down the rat hole where they now reside. Don't try selling that crap on the South Side, Mr. Morrissey. I'd like to think our fans are a bit more discerning.

Here's the key quote from Kenny on page 5 of today's Trib sports section (and that's the last free advertising I'm going to give that rag): "But you know what would be more unpopular (than trading Garcia)? It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent."

VernamHave you seen Rogers' screed over the last few days? Cross Rogers off your list.

veeter
12-08-2006, 10:01 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb, and say McCarthy for sure wins more games than Lilly. And may out-pitch Freddy.

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 10:03 AM
The Morrissey column was not a hatchet job.

We will see what else the Sox will do, and I don't think unloading Garcia in itself will ruin the Sox. However, I expect more in return for a front line pitcher than a pitcher with an ERA over seven in the National League. This trade stinks.

Face it, Garcia was traded because he was expensive and Floyd is cheap. And if that is how the Sox are going to solve their pitching problems, the post season will be a pipe dream.

I don't expect the team to throw millions at people like Ted Lilly. Money should be spent wisely. But one thing is not going to change: pitching is expensive. Going cheap won't win you anything.

In a nutshell YES
I like that the SOX are not going to overspend. FINE. But the small sale for obviously cheaper guys isnt how you win. Morrissey must've walked into a bar in Bridgeport to get this story

Cuck the Fubs
12-08-2006, 10:13 AM
Let me preface this by saying I'll always have great affection for the 2005 starters who brought home that championship. But none of these guys is a cinch Hall of Famer. In other words, none of them is untouchable.
Vernam

This makes total sense and is true.

Let's see what else Kenny has going

The Immigrant
12-08-2006, 10:14 AM
Today's Morrissey column was just part of a full assault on the Sox by the Trib sports section. The bad old days are back, in that regard. Jim Hendry "keeps plugging away," the headline says, inking as many mediocre players to superstar contracts as his stubby little fingers can sign. Meanwhile, evil Kenny and Darth Jerry are busy preying on the hopes and good intentions of 3 million Sox fans. ***? There are a couple of guys writing about baseball for McGrath who still have a shred of dignity left -- Downey and, maybe, Rogers. The rest have now got their minds right and are trying to bolster the corporation as it sells off major assets.

Let me preface this by saying I'll always have great affection for the 2005 starters who brought home that championship. But none of these guys is a cinch Hall of Famer. In other words, none of them is untouchable. To say that we should invest in them for 2007 and beyond based on what they did in 2005 is the same logic that led Hendry's team down the rat hole where they now reside. Don't try selling that crap on the South Side, Mr. Morrissey. I'd like to think our fans are a bit more discerning.

Here's the key quote from Kenny on page 5 of today's Trib sports section (and that's the last free advertising I'm going to give that rag): "But you know what would be more unpopular (than trading Garcia)? It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent."

Vernam

:thumbsup:

Preach it, Vernam.

spiffie
12-08-2006, 10:21 AM
Hmmmm

Brandon has shown more then Rich Hill

This is probably the only thing I have to disagree with out of what you said. Hill in his last 11 major league starts has a 2.58 ERA. I know the prevailing wisdom is that anything in a Cubs uniform must be awful, but Hill is going to be a stud pitcher if the Cubs don't somehow make his arm fall off. To me he is at worst equal to, and probably slightly better than McCarthy in terms of potential. I see both of them doing very well next year, with Hill doing slightly better simply due to being in the NL.

samram
12-08-2006, 10:23 AM
This is probably the only thing I have to disagree with out of what you said. Hill in his last 11 major league starts has a 2.58 ERA. I know the prevailing wisdom is that anything in a Cubs uniform must be awful, but Hill is going to be a stud pitcher if the Cubs don't somehow make his arm fall off. To me he is at worst equal to, and probably slightly better than McCarthy in terms of potential. I see both of them doing very well next year, with Hill doing slightly better simply due to being in the NL.

Not that it matters, but McCarthy doesn't have to be as good as Hill since Hill is their #3 right now and McCarthy is the #5 for the Sox. Of course, Brandon only needs to be better than Freddy was last year, which is very possible, but I'm just saying.

Domeshot17
12-08-2006, 10:57 AM
Spiffie-

I agree, Hill did show a lot, but plenty of those starts were against teams who had already been eliminated, were playing for nothing, and had a lot kids up. I think Hill has a tremendous amount of potential. From an unbias view (well as much as I can give) he looks like he could very much like a poor man's Zito. Average Velo, Plus BIG curve and a solid change. He spotted the ball MUCH MUCH better at the end of the year.

However, Brandon has shown he can do it for 2 years now, Hill for 5 months. Brandon has shut down much better offensive units, and has done it in the AL. I have no doubt Brandon could post a sub 3 era in the NL.

that being said, both are going to be very good pitchers for their teams.

I wish Kenny would swoop in, convince Mr. Angioplasty to trade him Hill and the Messiah for Garland. Imagine what Mark Prior would do under Cooper.

Hitmen77
12-08-2006, 11:05 AM
The Morrissey column was not a hatchet job.

We will see what else the Sox will do, and I don't think unloading Garcia in itself will ruin the Sox. However, I expect more in return for a front line pitcher than a pitcher with an ERA over seven in the National League. This trade stinks.

Face it, Garcia was traded because he was expensive and Floyd is cheap. And if that is how the Sox are going to solve their pitching problems, the post season will be a pipe dream.

I don't expect the team to throw millions at people like Ted Lilly. Money should be spent wisely. But one thing is not going to change: pitching is expensive. Going cheap won't win you anything.

There is nothing wrong with questionning the value of the Garcia trade. I agree - I feel disappointed and thought the Sox could get more for a starting pitcher.

However, the article is still a hatchet job. It's not about criticizing the Garica trade. It's the following comments (starting with the headline):

Sox no longer pitching championship dreams

Until a few days ago, the Sox had the best starting rotation in baseball. Now they have a reduced-calorie staff and an immediate future that has gone from bright to partly cloudy

So, replacing Garcia with McCarthy in our rotation alone turns us from a "best in baseball staff" to a "reduced-calorie staff"? :?: Maybe he's referring to the fact that B -Mac is alot skinnier than Garcia.

And this is what happens when an organization insists its payroll is tied into fan attendance and then turns around and reneges on the deal. Does Morrissey know for sure that the Sox are cutting payroll?

The Sox were quick to shoot those reports down, but usually where there's smoke with this team, there's a fire sale. So, based on a Houston Chronicle rumor which the Sox deny, we're now officially saying the Sox are doing a fire sale. Sounds fair to me.

Garcia threw back-to-back one-hitters late last season,....Never mind that he won 17 games last season. The number with the commas and all the zeroes is the one the Sox care about most. Yep, Freddy had a perfectly stellar season. It's obvious the Sox are only thinking about money. There was absolutely no indication that Freddy struggled last year or that he might be on the decline.

In terms of championships, this is what Williams is saying to Sox fans: One and done. Um, isn't KW saying just the opposite? That he doesn't want the Sox to be good for only one more year and then be mediocre as their starters get old and they have no one to replace them? It's legitimate to disagree or question his strategy for keeping the Sox competitive long-term, but to say that the Sox are telling fans they are "one and done" is just BS.

The rush to get 23-year-old Brandon McCarthy into the rotation borders on the bizarre. Yeah, McCarthy came up with the Sox only 2 years ago, what's the rush? For crying out loud - he's only going to be 24 this summer. BIZARRE!!! Obviously this is all because McCarthy comes cheap. There is no other explanation because there is absolutely no reason why anyone could possibly think it's time to put him in the rotation.

The thanks those people get is the re-signing of Scott Podsednik, who probably couldn't make the throw from shallow left field to home in five bounces. Wonderful selective criticism here. The Sox keep Pods, so let's highlight how bad he is. The Sox don't keep Garcia - not one mention of Freddy's struggles throughout most of the season. Velocity drop? Not holding runners on? Never heard of it!

The window on another championship was still open as of Wednesday, but it looks as though the Sox slammed it shut, right on your fingers, Sox fans.. I think it's obvious to us all that replacing Garcia with McCarthy pretty much slams the window shut on any possibility of another championship. This change really does make that big of a difference. Oh, and let's not even bother to see what the Sox do the rest of the offseason. We know right now that it's all over. One and done. The Sox are just going to fire sale the rest of the winter - it's a certainty.

spiffie
12-08-2006, 11:08 AM
Spiffie-

I agree, Hill did show a lot, but plenty of those starts were against teams who had already been eliminated, were playing for nothing, and had a lot kids up. I think Hill has a tremendous amount of potential. From an unbias view (well as much as I can give) he looks like he could very much like a poor man's Zito. Average Velo, Plus BIG curve and a solid change. He spotted the ball MUCH MUCH better at the end of the year.

However, Brandon has shown he can do it for 2 years now, Hill for 5 months. Brandon has shut down much better offensive units, and has done it in the AL. I have no doubt Brandon could post a sub 3 era in the NL.

that being said, both are going to be very good pitchers for their teams.

I wish Kenny would swoop in, convince Mr. Angioplasty to trade him Hill and the Messiah for Garland. Imagine what Mark Prior would do under Cooper.
Of course, you could say the same for all but 2 of Brandon's starts. To me you pitch against the team you're facing. When you dominate, you dominate, whether your McCarthy doing great against Minnesota and Detroit in Sept. 05 or Hill in 2006.

As for your trade idea...I would take that once a day and twice on Sundays.

Domeshot17
12-08-2006, 11:12 AM
Very true, like I said, I tried to be as unbias as possible, but its tough being a sox fan, comparing my guy to the cubs guy, on the most bias place on the internet:D:

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 11:14 AM
I wish Kenny would swoop in, convince Mr. Angioplasty to trade him Hill and the Messiah for Garland. Imagine what Mark Prior would do under Cooper.

Now thats an interesting trade scenario (waits for someone to insert Laughing guy icon)

cheezheadsoxfan
12-08-2006, 11:20 AM
These guys are towing their company line trying to drive a wedge between Sox fans and the team at the same time their team is spending big time trying to create good PR and buzz. What a bunch of crap!

Bingo!

palehozenychicty
12-08-2006, 11:26 AM
Here's the key quote from Kenny on page 5 of today's Trib sports section (and that's the last free advertising I'm going to give that rag): "But you know what would be more unpopular (than trading Garcia)? It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent."

Vernam

I wonder who he was referring to...:D:

Vernam
12-08-2006, 12:13 PM
Have you seen Rogers' screed over the last few days? Cross Rogers off your list. To be fair, I did say "shred" of dignity, and I did say "maybe." :wink:

I swear to god, yesterday's column by Rogers started out like he had received marching orders from his editors to write something blasting the Sox for being stupid, but the guy's heart just wasn't in it. Halfway through, he started undermining his own arguments and ended up practically conceding Williams is probably doing the smart thing. That's why I gave Rogers the benefit of the doubt, but trust me -- I still think they're all tools!

I guess what turned my stomach most today was Van Dyck's statement that Hendry's signing of Lilly while hooked to an EKG has already achieved "legendary status" in the annals of MLB Winter Meetings. :puking: I can hear the old GMs reminiscing ten years from now:
First GM: "Remember when that Cub GM signed that pitcher in the middle of a heart attack?"

Second GM: "Sort of, yeah."

First GM: "What was his name?"

Second GM: "The Cub GM or the pitcher?"

First GM: "Either one."

Second GM: "Beats me."

First GM: "Me, too."
Vernam

schmitty9800
12-08-2006, 01:46 PM
The critics of this article have been drinking way too much kool-aid and need to step away from the refrigerator.

We all love the Sox, but just step back and think about what just happened without any emotion.
I have no emotion. I just look at all the Philly fans complaining about how they gave up two potential starters for a one rental.

Floyd will be in our bullpen this year too. The last "troubled" pitcher with a hammer of a hook to enter our bullpen: Bobby Jenks.

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 01:50 PM
I guess what turned my stomach most today was Van Dyck's statement that Hendry's signing of Lilly while hooked to an EKG has already achieved "legendary status" in the annals of MLB Winter Meetings. :puking: I can hear the old GMs reminiscing ten years from now: First GM: "Remember when that Cub GM signed that pitcher in the middle of a heart attack?"


Second GM: "Sort of, yeah."


First GM: "What was his name?"


Second GM: "The Cub GM or the pitcher?"


First GM: "Either one."


Second GM: "Beats me."


First GM: "Me, too."
Vernam

Now this is actually pretty clever and funny. Im going to Gratuitiously insert the little funny laughing guy icon in order to show that I agreed and laughed at your statement. (inserts funny laughing guy) :roflmao:

maurice
12-08-2006, 01:59 PM
Wow, Morrissey really has been showing loyalty to his corporate masters over the past 15 months or so. Must be feeling the pinch in his 401(k) to come up with columns like these:
- Sox win the World Series but nobody cares
- Two million fans at Sox rally was pathetically low
- 2006 Cubs are going all the way
- 2005 Sox were one-and-done

Remember the olden days when he was an actual journalist and not a corporate shill?

tebman
12-08-2006, 02:50 PM
Wow, Morrissey really has been showing loyalty to his corporate masters over the past 15 months or so. Must be feeling the pinch in his 401(k) to come up with columns like these:
- Sox win the World Series but nobody cares
- Two million fans at Sox rally was pathetically low
- 2006 Cubs are going all the way
- 2005 Sox were one-and-done

Remember the olden days when he was an actual journalist and not a corporate shill?
Yeah, I do. That's what mystifies me. It seems like Morrissey either decided in the last year to try to be Mariotti-Lite, or else his editors are leaning on him to throw more bombs in his columns.

The Tribune has always been a self-important and tendentious place, but as time goes on it seems like it's growing desperate. Maybe the brain trust over there needs an intervention program to get them to break their Cub habit. Angry stockholders haven't done the trick so far.

WhiteSox5187
12-08-2006, 03:38 PM
I think EVERY Sox fan knew that Garcia was gone after last season. It was the mention that Garland was going that freaked out Sox fans, but the fact is Garland is still with the Sox and my bet is that as soon as that Garcia trade went down, there was no way that Garland was going anywhere.

Now, if the Sox were to trade Garland, then I fear, Mr. Morrisey might have a point.

TheOldRoman
12-08-2006, 04:14 PM
In a nutshell YES
I like that the SOX are not going to overspend. FINE. But the small sale for obviously cheaper guys isnt how you win. Morrissey must've walked into a bar in Bridgeport to get this story
YOU ARE RIGHT! I have a great idea. To keep payroll at $100 Million, here is what we do - we get rid of some of our top producers when their contracts come up (because we couldn't pay for ALL of them with $100mil). Here is the brilliant part... instead of overpaying for mediocre players or bringing in kids, we sign awesome players for really cheap contracts. That is the only way to go.



:rolleyes:
And another thing, stop trying to portray yourself as the "everyman". There are a lot of ignorant blowhards in this city, but you would be hardpressed to go into ANY bar in the city, let alone one in Bridgeport, and find someone as crazy as yourself.

Hangar18
12-08-2006, 05:04 PM
:rolleyes:
And another thing, stop trying to portray yourself as the "everyman". There are a lot of ignorant blowhards in this city, but you would be hardpressed to go into ANY bar in the city, let alone one in Bridgeport, and find someone as crazy as yourself.

Hey, you mean you-know-who didnt put the Smile icon here? or the little guy with the thumbs up? I am everyman. And so is everyone else here,
stop putting yourself in that little category, where you think you know it all,
even though things havnt played out