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lakeviewsoxfan
12-06-2006, 10:25 PM
We traded Freddy for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:25 PM
During the bulls half time they just said Freddy Got dealt to the Phillies?!?!?!

Did anyone here this am I crazy

ukigdog
12-06-2006, 10:26 PM
gavin floyd for garcia???? i am watching the bulls game and they reported its a done deal on halftime show!???? omg that is horrible

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:26 PM
haha I just posted this in whats the score

TheOldRoman
12-06-2006, 10:26 PM
I heard it too. Did they include 1-2 more top prospects with Floyd?:?:

samram
12-06-2006, 10:26 PM
That would be odd given Ol No. 2's post in the other thread saying they stopped talking.

Pasqua's Mailman
12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
Per Comcast... Garcia for Gavin Floyd? Must be more involved... anyone hear anything?

RoobarbPie
12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
I just heard this too. I'm hoping it's Floyd plus an OF. Please Kenny...

DaleJRFan
12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
There had better be more than just Gavin Floyd.

ChiWhiteSox1337
12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
Heh, can't wait to see the reaction to this when people were steaming over the thought of Floyd AND Aaron Rowand for Garcia...

lakeviewsoxfan
12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
I heard it too. Did they include 1-2 more top prospects with Floyd?:?:

Looks like it was Freddy for Floyd and our old pal Gio Gonzalez. I don't like this at all.

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:28 PM
espn confirms

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2688380

Gio Gonzalez is back (oh boy) and Gavin Flloyd

I feel so used and let down

HomeFish
12-06-2006, 10:28 PM
Gavin Floyd? Is that like Cliff Floyd's kid brother or something?

Kogs35
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
levineline also confirms it

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
Gavin Flloyd and Gio Gonzalez...we got hosed

DaleJRFan
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
Where's that puke tag when you need it....

ukigdog
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
this is obsurreed...!!!!! i cant beleive this. i would have rather had rowand in this than gio. i cant beleive this. there better be another trade to follow quick, cause we just got ripped

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
im sure a super merge is about to happen

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2688380

Gio is back and Gavin Flloyd, this blows

TheOldRoman
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
Since it is just Floyd and Gonzalez, I am hoping Floyd has a Johan Santana type ceiling?

Sox Fan 35
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
no Rowand?:?:

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 10:30 PM
espn confirms

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2688380

Gio Gonzalez is back (oh boy) and Gavin Flloyd

I feel so used and let downWe didn't even get Aaron Rowand in the deal?

samram
12-06-2006, 10:30 PM
It's on Foxsports.com (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6246902) too.

Brian26
12-06-2006, 10:30 PM
10:12 p.m., from Jayson Stark
ē The Phillies and White Sox have pulled off a deal: Freddy Garcia (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6168) to Philly for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7297).


And no Rowand? Wow.

Demafrost
12-06-2006, 10:30 PM
Wow thats sorta a letdown...

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:31 PM
The only thing I can hope is maybe we are still going to trade Vazquez, with the intention of putting Flloyd in the rotation

havelj
12-06-2006, 10:31 PM
Gavin Floyd info:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1794552&type=columnist

Beer Can Chicken
12-06-2006, 10:31 PM
espn confirms

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2688380

Gio Gonzalez is back (oh boy) and Gavin Flloyd

I feel so used and let down

Looks like Kenny would rather contend in 2008 than go for it all now. Don't really like this conservative route so much.

DeuceUnit
12-06-2006, 10:31 PM
I think I am gonna go throw up :angry:

oeo
12-06-2006, 10:31 PM
This sounds like a really dumb move...unless we're sending these guys elsewhere, which IMO, think is the case. I still think we could have gotten more in this market, what the hell?

HomeFish
12-06-2006, 10:31 PM
Ted Lilly gets 4/40, and Freddy Garcia gets...Gavin Floyd?

Good god.

DaleJRFan
12-06-2006, 10:32 PM
I think I am gonna go throw up :angry:

I already did. :angry:

VivaOzzie
12-06-2006, 10:32 PM
Seriously, I need some :prozac

Sox Fan 35
12-06-2006, 10:32 PM
Has Kenny lost his f****** mind?

ilsox7
12-06-2006, 10:32 PM
10:12 p.m., from Jayson Stark
ē The Phillies and White Sox have pulled off a deal: Freddy Garcia (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6168) to Philly for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7297).


And no Rowand? Wow.

KW has said ALL along he'd trade a starter for young pitching. That's exactly what he has done. We obviously know a lot (and like) Gio. So who has the scoop about Floyd?

zach074
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
How does this improve our team?!:angry:

HomeFish
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
Looks like Kenny would rather contend in 2008 than go for it all now. Don't really like this conservative route so much.

Maybe he's clearing up salary for the Gil Meche deal.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
Good God, I hope there's more to this deal.

samram
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
KW has said ALL along he'd trade a starter for young pitching. That's exactly what he has done. We obviously know a lot (and like) Gio. So who has the scoop about Floyd?

I think Floyd was supposed to be their best prospect after Hammels.

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
Kenny Williams better have something up his sleeve

He just went from Chuck Norris status to Chuck E Cheese

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
You gotta be kidding me. That's it? Kenny acted this quickly and that's all we got? Wow.

I don't know what to say. Maybe this is part of a bigger deal. I said earlier that we might have to find another team to give up young pitching to get Baldelli. Well, maybe that is the point of this deal.

I'm actually surprised we made a trade with the Phillies and Rowand wasn't involved. Perhaps that supports the Baldelli theory as well.

Martinigirl
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
We traded Freddy for a pitcher with an ERA over 7. Does this make sense to anyone?

SABRSox
12-06-2006, 10:33 PM
There's something else going on here we don't know about.

DeuceUnit
12-06-2006, 10:34 PM
I know for a FACT that there is nothing else to this deal.

Hagan
12-06-2006, 10:34 PM
i hope not. I like gio but floyd is garbage.

DaleJRFan
12-06-2006, 10:34 PM
Maybe all the other GMs called his bluff and wouldn't budge on his demands...

Brian26
12-06-2006, 10:34 PM
How does this improve our team?!:angry:

His career 6.96 ERA will be much better than having Augustin Montero's 7.00 ERA in our bullpen.

Cuck the Fubs
12-06-2006, 10:35 PM
This is totally stupid!

What is going on Kenny?!?!?:angry:

santo=dorf
12-06-2006, 10:35 PM
Really down on this trade at the moment. I don't know what to think of Gavin Floyd, but if the Sox are so high on Gonzalez, why did they trade him in the first place? Is he the new Majewski?

Garcia is extremely underrated around here posting similar numbers to "King" Jon Garland (who some people wouldn't deal for A-Rod or Manny. :?: )

BeviBall!
12-06-2006, 10:35 PM
This better be part of a bigger deal. Right now it's a grade A noodle scratcher.

Sox Fan 35
12-06-2006, 10:36 PM
Maybe all the other GMs called his bluff and wouldn't budge on his demands...

That is the only thing that makes sense.

southwstchi4life
12-06-2006, 10:36 PM
This is the best he could do for Freddy? rediculas

zach074
12-06-2006, 10:36 PM
Maybe all the other GMs called his bluff and wouldn't budge on his demands...

If thats the case then why even make a trade? He said himself he wouldn't make a trade just to trade.

chaerulez
12-06-2006, 10:37 PM
KW better prepare for some harsh treatment by fans again at Sox Fest, this is an absurd trade. Gaving Floyd has not proven a thing. And Gio is still a few years away.

PAPChiSox729
12-06-2006, 10:37 PM
I think they mistook Jimmy Rollins for Gavin Floyd....

ilsox7
12-06-2006, 10:37 PM
His career 6.96 ERA will be much better than having Augustin Montero's 7.00 ERA in our bullpen.

He was the #4 overall pick in 2001. And he apparently had a terrific spring last year. This move makes some sense to me. KW said this is what he was going for. It's a very risky move, but ifit pays off, you get 2 starting pitchers very cheap for many years.

siugrad25
12-06-2006, 10:37 PM
The Chicago White Sox have traded pitcher Freddy Garcia to the Philadelphia Phillies for pitcher Gavin Floyd and a player to be named. ∂
A story is upcoming.

I don't know much about Floyd, outside of a Phillies' fan here said he was a hot prospect, but hasn't done much. Is there something I'm missing?????

Bill Naharodny
12-06-2006, 10:37 PM
Maybe all the other GMs called his bluff and wouldn't budge on his demands...

Salary dump. No matter what you may think about the market for pitchers, you'd have to say that -- despite everything the franchise has accomplished during the past 2 years -- we're still in the land of salary dump. And that's pretty disappointing.

Unless, of course, something else is planned.

SABRSox
12-06-2006, 10:37 PM
The people over at Phillie Phans (http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewtopic.php?t=37376&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) hate this trade as much as we do.

joebro25
12-06-2006, 10:38 PM
What is Kenny doing? This is a horrible trade. The only way this will make any sense is if this is a precursor to a bigger deal.:angry:

whitesoxfan
12-06-2006, 10:38 PM
Why did we do this???

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 10:38 PM
This better be part of a bigger deal. Right now it's a grade A noodle scratcher.

It has to be. But still, we went from talking about prospects like Milledge, Pelfrey, Danks, etc. to Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez?

I'm willing to give it more time to see what else Kenny has going on, but right now I'm simply shaking my head at this one.

oeo
12-06-2006, 10:38 PM
Maybe all the other GMs called his bluff and wouldn't budge on his demands...

Then sit tight and wait until the trading deadline (probably even before that).

I don't believe this is the best offer he could have gotten...this has to be before a bigger move. Freddy should net a bigger return than that. There has to be something bigger coming, right? Right, Kenny? Please say yes.

VivaOzzie
12-06-2006, 10:39 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/nero041001/tweek-SP.jpg
GAVIN FLOYD!?!?

DaleJRFan
12-06-2006, 10:40 PM
ok, so Tom Dorr just said Rowand is coming back

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:40 PM
now the bulls said Aaron Rowand was part of this deal

BA: The Hitman
12-06-2006, 10:40 PM
Well, this is an interesting move.........

NSSoxFan
12-06-2006, 10:40 PM
ok, so Tom Dorr just said Rowand is coming back

Yes he did.

1951Campbell
12-06-2006, 10:40 PM
:o:
:(:
These guys better be leverage...

whitesoxwilkes
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
I know for a FACT that there is nothing else to this deal.

Citation, please.

bestplayernbb
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2688380
10:12 p.m., from Jayson Stark
ē The Phillies and White Sox have pulled off a deal: Freddy Garcia (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6168) to Philly for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7297).

Brian26
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
He was the #4 overall pick in 2001. And he apparently had a terrific spring last year. This move makes some sense to me. KW said this is what he was going for. It's a very risky move, but ifit pays off, you get 2 starting pitchers very cheap for many years.

I think Gio is the key to this deal. He's supposed to be the next coming of Kazmir.

samram
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
It has to be. But still, we went from talking about prospects like Milledge, Pelfrey, Danks, etc. to Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez?

I'm willing to give it more time to see what else Kenny has going on, but right now I'm simply shaking my head at this one.

Yeah, seeing that Ted ****ing Lilly is making what Freddy is making, how can Freddy not bring more than two decent prospects? Maybe the move is to flip Floyd and one of the OF prospects for Baldelli. That seems to work, but we'll see. Man.

soltrain21
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
what the crap is going on?

giganticHead
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
All the best sox news comes during bulls games.

What the heck is going on?

VivaOzzie
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
By the way, it is Wednesday...

ilsox7
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
Then sit tight and wait until the trading deadline (probably even before that).

I don't believe this is the best offer he could have gotten...this has to be before a bigger move. Freddy should net a bigger return than that. There has to be something bigger coming, right? Right, Kenny? Please say yes.

How do you know this? No one here has any clue what was actually offered for Freddy. And as far as I can tell, Gio and Gavin have pretty high ceilings. It's WAY too early to evaluate this thing.

Palehose13
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
You have got to be ****ing kidding me.

Kenny Williams better have something up his sleeve

He just went from Chuck Norris status to Chuck E Cheese
I'm with you there.

There's something else going on here we don't know about.

I sure hope so.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
now the bulls said Aaron Rowand was part of this dealThat would make more sense. Kenny already turned down Floyd+Rowand for Garcia. If they added Gio, that makes for a pretty fair deal.

SABRSox
12-06-2006, 10:41 PM
what the crap is going on?

Nobody knows what the hell is going on.

Scottiehaswheels
12-06-2006, 10:42 PM
I kinda think that KW might have felt bad about fleecing the Phillies in the Thome deal and had to pay them back somehow? :?:

SABRSox
12-06-2006, 10:42 PM
That would make more sense. Kenny already turned down Floyd+Rowand for Garcia. If they added Gio, that makes for a pretty fair deal.

I think that's what happened. Probably Garcia and another player for that package.

Myrtle72
12-06-2006, 10:42 PM
Wow, that "player to be named later" better as hell be a good one. This ****ing pisses me off. Why trade Freddy when you have plenty of other starters who need to be traded!?

BeviBall!
12-06-2006, 10:43 PM
It has to be. But still, we went from talking about prospects like Milledge, Pelfrey, Danks, etc. to Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez?

I'm willing to give it more time to see what else Kenny has going on, but right now I'm simply shaking my head at this one.

That's the thing. KW said he wanted to re-stock the pitching with youth, but Floyd and Gio? It's a huge letdown from the players you mention above.

peeonwrigley
12-06-2006, 10:43 PM
Yeah, seeing that Ted ****ing Lilly is making what Freddy is making, how can Freddy not bring more than two decent prospects? Maybe the move is to flip Floyd and one of the OF prospects for Baldelli. That seems to work, but we'll see. Man.

Hard to get excited about cheap, young prospects when our team should be in a "win now" mode.

There'd better be more coming.

oeo
12-06-2006, 10:43 PM
How do you know this? No one here has any clue what was actually offered for Freddy. And as far as I can tell, Gio and Gavin have pretty high ceilings. It's WAY too early to evaluate this thing.

I said, "I don't believe...", you even bolded it. Calm down.

Brian26
12-06-2006, 10:43 PM
That would make more sense. Kenny already turned down Floyd+Rowand for Garcia. If they added Gio, that makes for a pretty fair deal.

The Philadelphia report specifically said Rowand was not part of the deal.

NardiWasHere
12-06-2006, 10:43 PM
Is Floyd going to be inserted in the rotation? Maybe Javy will also be dealt?

Contreras
MB
Garland
McCarthy
Floyd


Strange... compelling... but strange.... Is this the move? I'm thinking another move is on the way.... has to be....

santo=dorf
12-06-2006, 10:44 PM
Why did we do this???
Tomorrow morning Hangar will tell you it was because of financial reasons.

Sox Fan 35
12-06-2006, 10:44 PM
What is going on?:nuts:

We have to be missing something. This can't be it.

DeadMoney
12-06-2006, 10:44 PM
Why?

Because Kenny didn't see the Sox shelling out the kind of money that has been thrown around this offseason to Buehrle and Garcia next off-season. Gio ultimately fills the LHP void that'll be possibly left by Buehrle's exit, and Floyd is 23 years old with a lot of potential.

Everyone also has to remember, Garcia was basically going to be a 1-year rental, and I don't know how much and what exactly was available to Kenny, but I imagine he took the best deal he could get. He's not dumb folks.

infohawk
12-06-2006, 10:44 PM
Ted Lilly gets 4/40, and Freddy Garcia gets...Gavin Floyd?

Good god.
Three points. It's tough to get a premium return for a player with one year left on his contract. Secondly, the value of young pitching just went way up in light of some of the contracts being doled out. Third, the move may be the first of one or more. KW just got some more young pitching he can either keep or flip, and he cleared Freddy's salary off the books. There might be a player he wants to give that money to. We'll know soon enough.

chaerulez
12-06-2006, 10:44 PM
I just don't understand how Floyd is a better option than Pelfry or Danks, unless those players were never offered. I would have at least settled for another decent hitter, even though we could use the pitching instead that this deal.

Hagan
12-06-2006, 10:45 PM
Gavin Floyd is such garbage, he will be nothing for the team ever. I like Gio but he had such a down year last year so i am happy we went after him as his stock is low but it still is not enough in return for freddie if we eat a lot of money. Hopefully this deal frees up money that we use to sign or trade for a left fielder or short stop.

DickAllen72
12-06-2006, 10:45 PM
Ted Lilly gets 4/40, and Freddy Garcia gets...Gavin Floyd?

Good god.

It is logical in a way, though. Think about it: With the salary cost of starting pitching going insane, who is going to give up much in talent to get a starter that they won't be able to afford to re-sign after just one season?

BTW, Now I'm hearing a rumor that Rowand was included in the deal. No confirmation on that yet.

Jerome
12-06-2006, 10:45 PM
well i can't really judge this trade because I don't know much about Floyd. He only started 11 games last year I think. We all knew Freddy or Buehrle was going to be traded eventually.

Now it's only a matter of time before the idiots call up to the Score and bitch about KW and this move, just like they've been bitching at his LACK of activity 2 years removed from a WS and a year removed from 90 wins

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 10:45 PM
The Philadelphia report specifically said Rowand was not part of the deal.So someone doesn't have their facts right 5 min after the trade is completed. What's new? But who? We're going to have to wait for something official.

hi im skot
12-06-2006, 10:46 PM
***?!?

Brian26
12-06-2006, 10:46 PM
ok, so Tom Dorr just said Rowand is coming back

How does Tom Dorr know this in the middle of broadcasting an NBA basketball game while I see it nowhere while looking at 18 different websites?

samram
12-06-2006, 10:46 PM
Hard to get excited about cheap, young prospects when our team should be in a "win now" mode.

There'd better be more coming.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excited about this at all. I just want to see if this leads to something else because as of right now the Sox are worse than they were at the end of last season.

Oh, and I'm not hearing anything about Rowand.

ilsox7
12-06-2006, 10:46 PM
I said, "I don't believe...", you even bolded it. Calm down.

Um, I'm plenty cool. I was just curious how you (and everyone else here for that matter) seemed to know the market. No other pitchers similar toFG have been traded. With how highly valued young starting pitchers are, two high ceiling guys (1 MLB or close to MLB ready and 1 a couple of years away) seems to me to be about the going price for a Freddy Garcia.

flo-B-flo
12-06-2006, 10:46 PM
Tom Dork on - the Bulls game - said AaRow was part of it.

DaleJRFan
12-06-2006, 10:47 PM
FREDDY GARCIA ...for Gavin Floyd, two MLB years ERA: 10.04 & 7.29

last two years of AAA:
2005: 6-9 6.16 ERA 97 K in 137 IP w/ 1.66 WHIP
2006: 7-4 4.23 ERA 85 k in 115 IP w/ 1.35 WHIP

SABRSox
12-06-2006, 10:47 PM
whitesox.com reporting Garcia for Floyd and PTBNL.

JUribe1989
12-06-2006, 10:47 PM
Kenny has ****ing lost it. This trade is garbage and completely worthless. We get Gonzalez back for no reason? The Phillies didn't even like Gavin Floyd. Freddy got us 17 wins and a 4.5 ERA in one of his off years, and all we get is ****ing Gavin Floyd? What a joke. We don't even get Rowand. This is a damn joke. Way to go Kenny! Fantastic offseason includes Aardsma and GEE WIZ Gavin Floyd!

DeuceUnit
12-06-2006, 10:47 PM
Citation, please.

A director that is in Florda right now at the meetings.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-06-2006, 10:48 PM
MLB press release on the Sox website mentions Garcia for Floyd and player to be named (Gonzalez) so it looks like no Rowand.

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 10:48 PM
Why?

Because Kenny didn't see the Sox shelling out the kind of money that has been thrown around this offseason to Buehrle and Garcia next off-season. Gio ultimately fills the LHP void that'll be possibly left by Buehrle's exit, and Floyd is 23 years old with a lot of potential.

Everyone also has to remember, Garcia was basically going to be a 1-year rental, and I don't know how much and what exactly was available to Kenny, but I imagine he took the best deal he could get. He's not dumb folks.

You know, I kind of felt we might not get as much value as some people here expected because Garcia only has 1 year left. But this is it? Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez? And why so soon? The starters are just beginning to sign. You have to think that teams will start to get more desperate. There is always going to be a market for a starter like Freddy Garcia. There will be teams that go into Spring Training still wishing they could add another starter. Why the rush to make this move now? There's gotta be something else here. Gotta be. Even if it's only Rowand, that at least makes it a little better. I'm just shocked.

Madvora
12-06-2006, 10:48 PM
I hope KW will at least explain this and not give a "no comment"

EastCoastSoxFan
12-06-2006, 10:48 PM
I don't know much about Floyd, outside of a Phillies' fan here said he was a hot prospect, but hasn't done much. Is there something I'm missing?????
I saw Floyd pitch a few times this season while flipping channels on TV, and seeing him pitch usually caused me to change the channel posthaste.
Hopefully some other team will take him off our hands in return for a young outfielder or something (as other posters have theorized).
And hopefully Gio is only a year or two away...

Foulke You
12-06-2006, 10:48 PM
Tom Dork on - the Bulls game - said AaRow was part of it.
*crosses fingers* PLEASE, at least let Rowand be part of this deal.

Bill Naharodny
12-06-2006, 10:48 PM
How does Tom Dorr know this in the middle of broadcasting an NBA basketball game while I see it nowhere while looking at 18 different websites?

Well, Dore is very tall. That probably helps him to know lots of stuff.

oeo
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
Um, I'm plenty cool. I was just curious how you (and everyone else here for that matter) seemed to know the market. No other pitchers similar toFG have been traded. With how highly valued young starting pitchers are, two high ceiling guys (1 MLB or close to MLB ready and 1 a couple of years away) seems to me to be about the going price for a Freddy Garcia.

It was my opinion...excuse me for stating it, that's what forums are for. I didn't say, "He could get more in this market," I said, I believe he could. And with the prices very mediocre pitchers are going for, I have no reason to think otherwise. Starting pitching is scarce, it's very valuable right now.

Sox Fan 35
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
Tom Dork on - the Bulls game - said AaRow was part of it.

I don't think of him as a reliable source.

JB98
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
Think Freddy will give up some HRs in that Philadelphia bandbox? Horse**** trade for both sides.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
I'm not buying the "Kenny's going to flip these guys for someone else" line. Why wouldn't the other team just trade straight up with the Phils? It's not as if there are any teams who wouldn't want two promising young pitchers.

Brian26
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
The Philadelphia report specifically said Rowand was not part of the deal.

Phils make a deal for Freddy Garcia

By Jim Salisbury

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. - The Phillies pulled off a trade for a starting pitcher at baseball's winter meetings tonight, acquiring Freddy Garcia from the Chicago White Sox for pitchers Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez.
Garcia, 30, is 116-71 in an eight-year big-league career with the Seattle Mariners and the White Sox. He has started nine postseason games in his career and won six of them. Garcia gives the Phils a third mid-to-top-of-the-rotation starter, joining Brett Myers and Cole Hamels, and he could allow the Phils to trade Jon Lieber for much-needed bullpen help.
The White Sox had coveted centerfielder Aaron Rowand - whom they traded to the Phillies a year ago - for some time, but he is not part of the deal.

Frater Perdurabo
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
I know nothing has been confirmed as of the time of this post, but...

If Rowand is returning, I like him as a 4th OF to back up all four OF positions, getting 350-400 or so ABs. But I don't like him as the starting CF.

Bill Naharodny
12-06-2006, 10:50 PM
MLB press release on the Sox website mentions Garcia for Floyd and player to be named (Gonzalez) so it looks like no Rowand.

Every year, Gio Gonzalez is a player to be named later. I hope that the young man doesn't develop a complex.

samram
12-06-2006, 10:50 PM
I know nothing has been confirmed as of the time of this post, but...

If Rowand is returning, I like him as a 4th OF to back up all four OF positions, getting 350-400 or so ABs. But I don't like him as the starting CF.

Rowand's not in the trade.

EndemicSox
12-06-2006, 10:50 PM
Freddy has obviously lost a little something in the past three years, and the Sox weren't going to give him big bucks...I like the move......

ukigdog
12-06-2006, 10:51 PM
Call me a moron, but maybe the original was rowand and floyd, but the sox kenw that they wanted better than rowand in center, so they took him out and asked for gio instead. now they spin b anderson and gavin to tampa for rocco. So because devil rays dont want salary pitcher in garcia, they spun him to get cheap young pitcher in floyd and are gonna spin him with anderson for rocco??

makes sense to me what you all think?

JUribe1989
12-06-2006, 10:51 PM
Think Freddy will give up some HRs in that Philadelphia bandbox? Horse**** trade for both sides.

Freddy got 17 wins in the AL. He could be a 20 game winner in the NL.

sox1970
12-06-2006, 10:51 PM
whitesox.com reporting Garcia for Floyd and PTBNL.

The PTBNL is Gonzalez. The Sox will have to drop someone of the 40-man before Gio can officially be added. I would expect Sierra to be dropped from the 40 man.

hi im skot
12-06-2006, 10:51 PM
What a kick in the junk.

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 10:51 PM
I'm not buying the "Kenny's going to flip these guys for someone else" line. Why wouldn't the other team just trade straight up with the Phils? It's not as if there are any teams who wouldn't want two promising young pitchers.

Well going with the Baldelli theory, if that is Kenny's intention, the Phils wouldn't really have as much interest in Baldelli. They need the starting pitching more.

infohawk
12-06-2006, 10:52 PM
Maybe all the other GMs called his bluff and wouldn't budge on his demands...
I don't believe that for a second. KW didn't have to trade Garcia if he didn't think he'd get what he wanted in return, particularly this early. He could have kept the starting five intact for another year or traded someone before the July 31 deadline. He's not done yet. At the very least, we owe him a little more time before we criticize him. Let's see what he has goin' on the stove.

(If it's nothing, then feel free to criticize him!)

JUribe1989
12-06-2006, 10:52 PM
Well, I just lost all respect for Kenny. Thanks for '05 you former great GM.

chaerulez
12-06-2006, 10:52 PM
Having Rowand included in the deal would make it worse in my opinion. He would automatically be the starting CF again. And his defense isn't as good as Anderson, and he's pretty much average with the bat. I can understand why a player like Rowand is a fan favorite, but people have to understand, he's nothing more than average.

siugrad25
12-06-2006, 10:52 PM
White Sox send Garcia to Phillies for Floyd and a player to be named ∂
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. (AP) ó The Chicago White Sox traded right-hander Freddy Garcia to the Philadelphia Phillies on Wednesday night for Gavin Floyd and a player to be named. ∂
White Sox manager Kenny Williams let slip during the announcement at baseballís winter meetings that the player is pitcher Gio Gonzalez. ∂
The deal reconnects Garcia with his former general manager from Seattle, Pat Gillick, who has been working to upgrade the teamís pitching staff. Gillick had also been looking for a right-handed bat to protect NL MVP Ryan Howard, but said he didnít expect to find one and turned his attention to the pitching staff. ∂
Garcia was 17-9 with a 4.53 ERA for Chicago last season. ∂
"The Chicago White Sox are still open for business," Williams said. ∂
Floyd was 4-3 with a 7.29 ERA in 11 starts for the Phillies last season before being optioned to Triple-A on June 3. ∂
"I think Gavinís going to be a little bit of a late bloomer," Phillies assistant GM Mike Arbuckle said. ∂
Gonzalez was traded from the White Sox to Phillies in November 2005 as part of the deal that sent Jim Thome to Chicago and Aaron Rowand to Philadelphia. ∂

pagansoxfan
12-06-2006, 10:52 PM
i think we coulda done better than a prospect and a guy who was 4-3 with a 7.29 era. horrible trade!

Cuck_The_Fubs
12-06-2006, 10:52 PM
3 Letters


***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chrissake Kenny...Gimmie Rowand god damnit! I want Rowand!

Madvora
12-06-2006, 10:53 PM
Freddy ended the year with getting close to throwing two perfect games. We couldn't do better than this???

Kwrubac
12-06-2006, 10:53 PM
Well I'm not one to question KW after 05...but this one has me a bit confused hopefully it pans out well for us...if not we may have let good trade bait go way too early...Visions of Arod, Wells, or Crawford on the south side I think are over...:?:

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 10:53 PM
well this is a terrible frickin trade

but

maybe the market hurt his value. Maybe teams looking for a trade said "well Freddy Garcia is now able to command 14-15 a year at the end of the season, and he is declining"

Foulke You
12-06-2006, 10:53 PM
Well, if Rowand is not part of this deal than KW just got raked over the coals and has really frustrated me as a fan. This just feels like he settled for something just to make a move. This does nothing to help the club now. The only thing I can think of is that this is a precursor to something else. The ball is in your court now KW, you just traded a horse starter for 2 fringe prospects. I hope you use that $9 million wisely.:(:

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 10:53 PM
What the **** Kenny? I had such high hopes for Freddy in 2007 and this is all we got for him when lesser pitchers are racking in huge paydays?

:?: :angry: :?:

SABRSox
12-06-2006, 10:54 PM
Well, I like getting Gio back. Floyd, either he's bait for another deal (Baldelli?) or Coop's got the biggest reclamation project of his career on his hands.

SOX ADDICT '73
12-06-2006, 10:54 PM
Which one of us was assigned to keep Kenny Williams away from the bars in Orlando?

Harry Potter
12-06-2006, 10:54 PM
All you bandwagoners, this is YOUR EXIT

oeo
12-06-2006, 10:54 PM
Freddy ended the year with getting close to throwing two perfect games. We couldn't do better than this???

To be fair, it was mostly because most teams didn't know he threw a split finger, and if they did, that had not seen it and did not know how good it was.

I still think they could have gotten more, though.

Frater Perdurabo
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
This COULD be a precursor to another trade, perhaps with the Devil Rays, perhaps a scenario like this:

Perhaps the Rays didn't want any of the Sox starters (because of their contract situations), but did want young pitching. Maybe they liked Gonzalez and Floyd, but the Philles already have a full outfield and don't want what the Rays have to offer. The Sox now have young pitching to combine with another prospect or two to get Baldelli or Crawford.

Mr.1Dog
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
I am baffled on this one.:angry:

TheOldRoman
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Well, I just lost all respect for Kenny. Thanks for '05 you former great GM.
:dumbass:

You would think a World Series championship would buy a guy the benefit of the doubt for at least one night. Guess not.

whitesoxwilkes
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
A director that is in Florda right now at the meetings.

Very well then. We'll see how this shakes out.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Well going with the Baldelli theory, if that is Kenny's intention, the Phils wouldn't really have as much interest in Baldelli. They need the starting pitching more.Or maybe the Sox add someone else (Anderson?) to Floyd and Gonzalez to get Baldelli. That would probably be to the Rays liking.

CashMan
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
If Anyone paid attention, Kenny said he wanted to stock up on younger pitching so he would be in the same situation next year. This is not a stupid treade. We get 2 quality prospect, one of witch could be inserted into the starting rotation. And if Cooper can work some magic, maybe Floyd turns into a nice #5 starter.

And BTW, do we really need 3 pages of people saying a mixtuers of, IDK what we got, we got this guy and this guy, IDK what we got, we got this guy and thiis guy? It sucks reading.

Beer Can Chicken
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
I don't like the trade right now but I tend to view off-season moves as whole rather than indiviually. So all I have to say is we better end up with a CF and some RPs when this is all said and done.

Sox Fan 35
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Well, I just lost all respect for Kenny. Thanks for '05 you former great GM.

I think it is a little soon to say that.

santo=dorf
12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Freddy has obviously lost a little something in the past three years, and the Sox weren't going to give him big bucks...I like the move......
Ok, what did Freddy "obviously lose" over the past three years? His fastball was down for most of the season due to pitching 250 innings in 2005 and he pitched in the WBC (but I'm not putting a lot of weight in that.)

Even if the Sox didn't want him long term, would you rather have two draft picks, or Gonzalez and Floyd?

Brian26
12-06-2006, 10:56 PM
All of a sudden, Figgins/Santana for Crede/Garcia doesn't seem so bad.

oeo
12-06-2006, 10:56 PM
Well, I like getting Gio back. Floyd, either he's bait for another deal (Baldelli?) or Coop's got the biggest reclamation project of his career on his hands.

:?:

The guy will only be 24 when the season starts. It's not like he's a 35 year old journeyman.

samram
12-06-2006, 10:56 PM
From Mark Gonzalez's story (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061206soxtrade,1,6688439.story?coll=cs-home-headlines):

Before the deal was finalized, Sox general manager Ken Williams intimated he might have to make a deal soon because of the rapidly changing free agent market that included the free agent signings of pitchers Jason Schmidt and Ted Lilly.

Odd. I would think the longer he waited, the better.

JRIG
12-06-2006, 10:56 PM
Freddy ended the year with getting close to throwing two perfect games. We couldn't do better than this???

Maybe teams remember all those starts in July and August when he was giving up 12 hits in 5 innings.

BeviBall!
12-06-2006, 10:56 PM
Reminds me of when we traded Lee. People had no idea, then we got AJ and Duque and it all made sense. Patience people... this will be flipped to another team.

Bill Naharodny
12-06-2006, 10:57 PM
Well going with the Baldelli theory, if that is Kenny's intention, the Phils wouldn't really have as much interest in Baldelli. They need the starting pitching more.

And Tampa, by most but not all accounts, wants young pitching, not expensive Garcia-type pitching. But I'll believe we're trading with TB when I see it.

Baby Fisk
12-06-2006, 10:57 PM
I'm gonna hurl.

OzzyTrain
12-06-2006, 10:58 PM
Rowand adds chemisty , if anyone listens to espn in the mornings the rumor was going around again that we are talking about getting Rowand.

infohawk
12-06-2006, 10:58 PM
Why did we do this???
Well, it is Wednesday.:D:

Lprof
12-06-2006, 10:58 PM
i think we coulda done better than a prospect and a guy who was 4-3 with a 7.29 era. horrible trade!There HAS to be another deal about to be made, though it is not clear to me what it could be. As is, this is the worst deal made since Lee Smith was traded by the Cubs to Boston for Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi. Did Kenny stop taking his medicine, or something?

Palehose13
12-06-2006, 10:59 PM
From rotoworld:


ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Phillies have acquired Freddy Garcia from the White Sox for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.

No Aaron Rowand? Gonzalez was a White Sox prospect until a year ago, when he was sent to the Phillies in the Jim Thome deal. Gonzalez is probably one of the 30-35 best pitching prospects in baseball, but Floyd doesn't have a lot of value at the moment and we're stunned that this is the best the White Sox could do for Garcia. Dec. 6 - 10:32 pm et

jsinaiko
12-06-2006, 10:59 PM
Salary dump. No matter what you may think about the market for pitchers, you'd have to say that -- despite everything the franchise has accomplished during the past 2 years -- we're still in the land of salary dump. And that's pretty disappointing.

Unless, of course, something else is planned.

He's GOTTA have something else in mind - this is an obvious salary dump - it opens up $10 million. So they must have something else in mind.

I'm still hoping for a Michael Young deal, or maybe Vernon Wells or Baldelli.

I'm not unhappy that they didn't get Rowand.

samram
12-06-2006, 10:59 PM
Rowand adds chemisty , if anyone listens to espn in the mornings the rumor was going around again that we are talking about getting Rowand.

Rowand is not in the deal.

credefan24
12-06-2006, 10:59 PM
I'm going to reserve judgment on this trade until later. Kenny has proven that he knows what he's doing, and I think he deserves some slack. I mean, free agent signings this off season are out of this world. I just heard a bunch of morons on the North Side of Chicago paid Ted Lilly 40 Million dollars.
More has to come, I think.

Hagan
12-06-2006, 10:59 PM
All you bandwagoners, this is YOUR EXIT

:rolleyes: questioning a move doesnt mean you hate a team. It just means that you do not agree with a move. It is just an opinion and i hope everyone has one or the world would be a very bland place.

sox1970
12-06-2006, 10:59 PM
I'm going to take the opposing view here--I think this trade could work out very well in the longterm. KW is loading up on pitching the organization did not have. Gio is a very talented lefty and only 21 next season. He has time to develop. Floyd could be another Thornton project. I'm keeping an open mind about this. I'm waiting to judge this team until pitchers and catchers report.

Palehose13
12-06-2006, 11:00 PM
Reminds me of when we traded Lee. People had no idea, then we got AJ and Duque and it all made sense. Patience people... this will be flipped to another team.

This is what I am hoping for.

PAPChiSox729
12-06-2006, 11:00 PM
Well, I like getting Gio back. Floyd, either he's bait for another deal (Baldelli?) or Coop's got the biggest reclamation project of his career on his hands.

Well, though I'm not excited about the trade, I can somewhat understand the rationale. If KW really thought Garcia was gassed for good, trading him for two young pitchers isn't a bad idea. If Cooper can fix Floyd and Gio turns out to be a stud, this will be a great move. But if Floyd continues to struggle at the big league level, this move is poor. Cross your fingers, folks, and hope for Matt Thorton: The Sequel.

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
Well, I just lost all respect for Kenny. Thanks for '05 you former great GM.

Give it a bit of time.

I dislike this trade as much as everyone else, but I just can't believe Kenny would make a move like this so quickly without having something else brewing. Maybe he knows the Rays value Floyd highly or something. It has to be something like that. Otherwise, this just looks like a panic move.

Myrtle72
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
Who wants to bet that Freddy is going to pitch a perfect game for the Phillies next season?

samram
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
Or maybe the Sox add someone else (Anderson?) to Floyd and Gonzalez to get Baldelli. That would probably be to the Rays liking.

Yeah, that's what we in the Baldelli theory have, uh, theorized. I don't think both Floyd and Gonzalez would be involved as I know KW wants to replenish the farm system a little bit, but one of them and one of the OF prospects could work.

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
From rotoworld:I have to agree with roto on this one....I'm completely stunned.

santo=dorf
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
This COULD be a precursor to another trade, perhaps with the Devil Rays, perhaps a scenario like this:

Perhaps the Rays didn't want any of the Sox starters (because of their contract situations), but did want young pitching. Maybe they liked Gonzalez and Floyd, but the Philles already have a full outfield and don't want what the Rays have to offer. The Sox now have young pitching to combine with another prospect or two to get Baldelli or Crawford.
You must have a thousand posts with Crawford in it. Hate to shoot your blimp down, but;
Brandon McCarthy (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=472)-R- White Sox (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=CWS)Dec. 6 - 10:24 pm et
The White Sox reportedly weren't willing to part with Brandon McCarthy in talks regarding Rocco Baldelli.
Did they really think Tampa Bay would be interested in Freddy Garcia? McCarthy has to be on the table if the White Sox are going to make a major deal with a rebuilding club.
Source: WhiteSox.mlb.com (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&content_id=1753111&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp)http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif

C (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3410)arl Crawford-OF- Devil Rays (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=TB)Dec. 6 - 10:21 pm et
While the Rays are reportedly open to moving Rocco Baldelli, they will not trade Carl Crawford, according to MLB.com.
After reading a rumor that Crawford was up for grabs, the Brewers called the Rays to check on his availability. Rays officials told the Brewers, "Absolutely not."

ilsox7
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
I really think people need to take a major deep breath here. The Sox and most of us know Gio well and most people really liked him. Floyd is pretty much an unknown to everyone posting right now (I have yet to see anyone post a detailed scouting report of him). But a 23 year old who makes a MLB roster has to have some upside. Finally, this very well maybe a precursor to something else.

As for Freddy, most people here would have traded him for a bag of balls for the majority of last year. He finished strong, but maybe the Sox (and the league) didn't value him that highly. Plus, he's only got 1 year left on his contract.

Ask yourself this: what from the Sox organization would YOU have given up for Garcia?

hi im skot
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
This COULD be a precursor to another trade, perhaps with the Devil Rays, perhaps a scenario like this:

Perhaps the Rays didn't want any of the Sox starters (because of their contract situations), but did want young pitching. Maybe they liked Gonzalez and Floyd, but the Philles already have a full outfield and don't want what the Rays have to offer. The Sox now have young pitching to combine with another prospect or two to get Baldelli or Crawford.

:praying:

PAPChiSox729
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
He's GOTTA have something else in mind - this is an obvious salary dump - it opens up $10 million. So they must have something else in mind.

I'm still hoping for a Michael Young deal, or maybe Vernon Wells or Baldelli.

I'm not unhappy that they didn't get Rowand.

I really don't think Rowand is that good.

CosmRoksTHHP
12-06-2006, 11:01 PM
Reminds me of when we traded Lee. People had no idea, then we got AJ and Duque and it all made sense. Patience people... this will be flipped to another team.
thank you for some sanity, can we please wait until all the moves are done until we start saying idiotic things about KW. granted at face value, the trade is kinda weak, but as you all see the phillies fans are high on the guys they gave up.

lets be patient about this one. nobody will ever forget Freddy's performance in game 4, but lets not forget how many times we were so dissapointed when freddy would go 5 1/3 and give up 6 runs against the royals and such.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-06-2006, 11:02 PM
Only time will tell how this one works out. One thing I will not miss is opposing teams running all over Freddy or Freddys loss of velocity overall I think the $9MM opens up a world of options for our Sox.

samram
12-06-2006, 11:02 PM
Who wants to bet that Freddy is going to pitch a perfect game for the Phillies next season?

I'll bet he won't.

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 11:02 PM
going by theory

We got Freddy for 3 bust prospects

We got 2 good years out him

Then we dealt him for 2 bust prospects (well maybe there is hope for Gio, but coming back to the Sox Farm system that doesnt produce pitchers won't exactly help him)

All in all, we made out about even?

Foulke You
12-06-2006, 11:02 PM
Reminds me of when we traded Lee. People had no idea, then we got AJ and Duque and it all made sense. Patience people... this will be flipped to another team.
While I wish I shared your positive outlook, at least with the Carlos Lee trade, we were getting a proven leadoff man who was coming off a 70 stolen base campaign (Pods) and a decent reliever (Vizcaino). This one was a horse starter essentially dumped for non-MLB ready talent. It boggles the mind.

RoobarbPie
12-06-2006, 11:02 PM
I'm waiting to judge this team until pitchers and catchers report.

Me too. I think there are still a deal or two to be made and this team will look different than it does today. I have more faith in Kenny than any other GM in the game - even tonight. I'm interested to see what's up his sleeve...

Viva Medias B's
12-06-2006, 11:02 PM
What would prompt Tom Dore, a broadcaster employed by Jerry Reinsdorf to do play-by-play for JR's basketball team, to throw Aaron Rowand's name in the trade? Has he since retracted this?

SABRSox
12-06-2006, 11:02 PM
Well, if that truly is Ken Rosenthal over at Phillie Phans, he's convinced this is the precursor to a Baldelli trade.

Myrtle72
12-06-2006, 11:03 PM
Wow, we were totally off. I mean, how many threads about Freddy do we have in "What's the Score," none?

Palehose13
12-06-2006, 11:03 PM
Give it a bit of time.

I dislike this trade as much as everyone else, but I just can't believe Kenny would make a move like this so quickly without having something else brewing. Maybe he knows the Rays value Floyd highly or something. It has to be something like that. Otherwise, this just looks like a panic move.

That's what doesn't make sense to me. It does look like a panic move and KW had no reason to panic (form the reports we have been getting). Hopefully this leads to something else.

Lprof
12-06-2006, 11:03 PM
If Anyone paid attention, Kenny said he wanted to stock up on younger pitching so he would be in the same situation next year. This is not a stupid treade. We get 2 quality prospect, one of witch could be inserted into the starting rotation. And if Cooper can work some magic, maybe Floyd turns into a nice #5 starter.

And BTW, do we really need 3 pages of people saying a mixtuers of, IDK what we got, we got this guy and this guy, IDK what we got, we got this guy and thiis guy? It sucks reading.With all due respect, this point is complete nonsense. We are supposed to be a contender next year; we just traded a 17 game winner for "young pitching"? If there is more to come, I will reserve judgment. But it is preposterous to think this is a good trade for a team with aspirations of contending, standing alone.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 11:03 PM
Yeah, that's what we in the Baldelli theory have, uh, theorized. I don't think both Floyd and Gonzalez would be involved as I know KW wants to replenish the farm system a little bit, but one of them and one of the OF prospects could work.I sure as hell hope there's a part deaux here, because as presently constituted, this trade makes no sense.

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 11:04 PM
Man, I hope we can flip Gio and Floyd to the Rays for Rocco...

Jerome
12-06-2006, 11:04 PM
over on the phils board they are saying that Floyd is worthless???????

Madvora
12-06-2006, 11:04 PM
Definitely not a trustworthy sources, BUT we are jumping on this very soon.
This guy is saying Rowand was included...
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-phillies&msg=44551.1&ctx=0


who knows, more might be released about this deal.

TheDarkGundam
12-06-2006, 11:04 PM
In Kenny I trust, In Kenny I trust, In Kenny I trust...
Please tell me something more is coming.

cws05champ
12-06-2006, 11:04 PM
We didn't even get a Cheesesteak to be named later?

santo=dorf
12-06-2006, 11:04 PM
Maybe teams remember all those starts in July and August when he was giving up 12 hits in 5 innings.
He still had some of the best numbers on our staff including Jon Garland, whose name was mentioned with John Danks.

Think there's a link between Freddy using a different pitch and a 2.49 ERA in September?

BeviBall!
12-06-2006, 11:05 PM
As of now: Your new #4 starting pitcher is Javier Vazquez. :puking:

Now with ESPN and others saying we got hosed, I can't wait until KW pulls off the second part on this deal. And then the always entertaining backpeddling will begin.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 11:05 PM
Definitely not a trustworthy sources, BUT we are jumping on this very soon.
This guy is saying Rowand was included...
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-phillies&msg=44551.1&ctx=0


who knows, more might be released about this deal.The official announcement on mlb.com says no Rowand.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&content_id=1753339&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 11:06 PM
What would prompt Tom Dore, a broadcaster employed by Jerry Reinsdorf to do play-by-play for JR's basketball team, to throw Aaron Rowand's name in the trade? Has he since retracted this?That's why I quickly checked WSI to see if it was true, apparently it was only half true.

jabrch
12-06-2006, 11:06 PM
Glad to see Gio back. I didn't like losing him in the Thome deal to begin with. I wonder what the plan is with Floyd. Must be some idea of someone who wants him. Otherwise we have one more starter and still no spot for him. Maybe they see Floyd as being well suited to be a reliever?

JRIG
12-06-2006, 11:06 PM
I sure as hell hope there's a part deaux here, because as presently constituted, this trade makes no sense.

It makes sense in that our rotation is immediately improved by swapping McCarthy and Garcia. And we have $9 million to play with in '06. Gonzalez becomes the best pitching prospect in the organization, and Floyd is starter insurance, which we have none of right now. I think Hager is the 6th guy at the moment.

So, it makes a lot of sense.

EastCoastSoxFan
12-06-2006, 11:07 PM
With all due respect, this point is complete nonsense. We are supposed to be a contender next year; we just traded a 17 game winner for "young pitching"? If there is more to come, I will reserve judgment. But it is preposterous to think this is a good trade for a team with aspirations of contending, standing alone.We're a contending team with 6 starting pitchers. Brandon doesn't need to spend another year scuffling around the bullpen. He was ready to be a full-time starter in '06. Granted, I would rather have traded Vazquez than a proven big-game pitcher like Freddy, but Kenny got what he got and the off-season is still young...

Brian26
12-06-2006, 11:07 PM
Man, I hope we can flip Gio and Floyd to the Rays for Rocco...

Gio's the type of guy you keep. But, Floyd and maybe Cintron to the Rays. There are reports they want to move Upton to the outfield, so maybe they have a spot for Cintron at SS or 3B.

Beer Can Chicken
12-06-2006, 11:07 PM
What would prompt Tom Dore, a broadcaster employed by Jerry Reinsdorf to do play-by-play for JR's basketball team, to throw Aaron Rowand's name in the trade? Has he since retracted this?

He was talking about how he was reading in the paper this morning about the SOX reaquiring Rowand from the Phillies. He probably just saw it was a trade with the Phillies and made a false assumption or mis-spoke.

BA: The Hitman
12-06-2006, 11:07 PM
At first I was pissed, but I'm going to wait until KW is done making moves this offseason to judge this trade. Right now, it doesn't make sense, but hofully it will in the next few months....

Viva Medias B's
12-06-2006, 11:07 PM
Adding to the confusion, Robbie Gould just mentioned Rowand's name (I think) in a Bulls sideline interview.

Scottiehaswheels
12-06-2006, 11:08 PM
That interleague series in June just got a whole lot more interesting.....

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 11:10 PM
That's what doesn't make sense to me. It does look like a panic move and KW had no reason to panic (form the reports we have been getting). Hopefully this leads to something else.

Right, which is why I have to think something else is coming. I know Freddy only had one year left, but he's only due $10 million, which is pretty damn good considering Padilla signed for $11 million a year. And this move is awfully quick. The rationale that KW had to act quick because of the ptichers signing makes no sense. First off, the teams they signed with (Schmidt with the Dodgers, Lilly the Cubs) were never really considered to be trading partners for us. Second, simple supply and demand says that as there are less quality pitchers left in free agency, teams will be willing to pay more in a trade to improve their rotation. So then, the question would have to be: Why make this move on December 6th? The only logical answer, given that KW has proven himself to be a good GM, is that he needed to make this move in order to make another move that will improve our team.

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 11:10 PM
As of now: Your new #4 starting pitcher is Javier Vazquez. :puking:

Now with ESPN and others saying we got hosed, I can't wait until KW pulls off the second part on this deal. And then the always entertaining backpeddling will begin.Easy Bevi, I'm sure almost every time in baseball would love to have Javy as their #4 starter.

areilly
12-06-2006, 11:10 PM
I sure as hell hope there's a part deaux here, because as presently constituted, this trade makes no sense.

I agree. Unless Floyd's headed to the bullpen, or we turn around and flip him to a third team for something major...ugh.

But, you never know.

You know, I wish I had something more substantial to add to this thread, but I'm still kind of perplexed. I guess the CLee/Pods trade is a good reminder that these moves aren't always what they seem.

Floyd + Crede for Alex Rodriguez?
Gonzalez + Anderson + Pods + Floyd for Ichiro?


Ugh. Offseason is the worst time of year.

Hagan
12-06-2006, 11:11 PM
going by theory

We got Freddy for 3 bust prospects

We got 2 good years out him

Then we dealt him for 2 bust prospects (well maybe there is hope for Gio, but coming back to the Sox Farm system that doesnt produce pitchers won't exactly help him)

All in all, we made out about even?

I do not think gio is a bust prospect at all. He had a down year last year in the 2nd half but he is a solid prospect still. There are questions with his small frame if he is going to end up a starter or a solid bull pen guy but he has a shot at becoming a good starter down the road. The problem with floyd is that he has one pitch in a curve ball that isnt bad but he has nothing to back it up with.

Domeshot17
12-06-2006, 11:11 PM
Maybe its not as bad as we thought

Kenny Williams was qouted in Ken Rosenthals article (well blip) on the trade on foxsports.com as saying "The White Sox are still Open for Business tonight"

Cuck the Fubs
12-06-2006, 11:11 PM
If the deal stands as is.....it's so lopsided that the only way possible it could make sense is if it's handcuffed to another deal, or the money saved is to sign more help.

If neither of those happens.....:angry:

chaerulez
12-06-2006, 11:11 PM
We can only hope this is a salary dump to get A-Rod or Carl Crawford (does he even make 9 million?).

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 11:11 PM
Gio's the type of guy you keep. But, Floyd and maybe Cintron to the Rays. There are reports they want to move Upton to the outfield, so maybe they have a spot for Cintron at SS or 3B.That does make sense now that I think about it. Let's just hope it makes sense to the Rays GM.

Madvora
12-06-2006, 11:11 PM
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/16180647.htm

The White Sox had coveted centerfielder Aaron Rowand - whom they traded to the Phillies a year ago - for some time, but he is not part of the deal.

samram
12-06-2006, 11:12 PM
Definitely not a trustworthy sources, BUT we are jumping on this very soon.
This guy is saying Rowand was included...
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-phillies&msg=44551.1&ctx=0


who knows, more might be released about this deal.

I think he's probably hearing the same wrong stuff people on here have heard.

BeviBall!
12-06-2006, 11:12 PM
Easy Bevi, I'm sure almost every time in baseball would love to have Javy as their #4 starter.

He's got some provin' to do!

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 11:13 PM
It makes sense in that our rotation is immediately improved by swapping McCarthy and Garcia. And we have $9 million to play with in '06. Gonzalez becomes the best pitching prospect in the organization, and Floyd is starter insurance, which we have none of right now. I think Hager is the 6th guy at the moment.

So, it makes a lot of sense.You don't think they should have gotten more for a guy with 31 wins over the last two years while making the same money as Ted Lilly?

Tekijawa
12-06-2006, 11:13 PM
I'm going to really like this trade in 2 years...

Brian26
12-06-2006, 11:14 PM
Definitely not a trustworthy sources, BUT we are jumping on this very soon.
This guy is saying Rowand was included...
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-phillies&msg=44551.1&ctx=0


who knows, more might be released about this deal.


This guy simply said that "reports out of Chicago say Rowand was included." He's probably reading about Tom Dore.

Cuck the Fubs
12-06-2006, 11:14 PM
You don't think they should have gotten more for a guy with 31 wins over the last two years while making the same money as Ted Lilly?

I just told my nephew the EXACT same thing!:angry:

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 11:15 PM
He's got some provin' to do!Agreed.

samram
12-06-2006, 11:15 PM
Well, if that truly is Ken Rosenthal over at Phillie Phans, he's convinced this is the precursor to a Baldelli trade.

There's also a poster named Joe Cowley on there, so I doubt it. Who knows. I hope he's right whoever he is.

CosmRoksTHHP
12-06-2006, 11:15 PM
i think they will flip this deal to get vernon wells who they were reportedly heavily after.
we know the jays will need some pitching help now.

tstrike2000
12-06-2006, 11:15 PM
I sure as hell hope there's a part deaux here, because as presently constituted, this trade makes no sense.

No, the trade obviously does not make sense. Another problem is that if Kenny is turning around and giving Floyd and a prospect for Baldelli we're out a starting pitcher. Unless...he plans on replacing him, because right now Floyd and Gio aren't going to fill that void.

siugrad25
12-06-2006, 11:16 PM
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. (AP) ó The Chicago White Sox traded starting pitcher Freddy Garcia to the Philadelphia Phillies on Wednesday night for right-hander Gavin Floyd and a player to be named. ∂
White Sox manager Kenny Williams let slip during the announcement at baseballís winter meetings that the other player is pitcher Gio Gonzalez. ∂
"Itís 11 oíclock at night, what do you want?" Williams said. ∂
Garcia was 17-9 with a 4.53 ERA for Chicago last season. In 2005, Garcia was the Game 4 winner for the White Sox as they clinched their first World Series title since 1917 with a sweep of the Houston Astros. ∂
"Heís had to pitch when itís on the line," Phillies assistant general manager Mike Arbuckle said. "Heís had the opportunity to do things you want a pitcher to be able to do." ∂
The deal reconnects Garcia with his former general manager from Seattle, Pat Gillick, who has been working to upgrade the teamís pitching staff. Gillick had also been looking for a right-handed bat to protect NL MVP Ryan Howard, but said he didnít expect to find one and turned his attention to the pitching staff. ∂
Floyd was 4-3 with a 7.29 ERA in 11 starts for the Phillies last season before being optioned to Triple-A on June 3. The fourth overall selection in the 2001 draft, he turns 24 next month. ∂
"I think Gavinís going to be a little bit of a late bloomer," Arbuckle said. ∂
Gonzalez was traded from the White Sox to Phillies in November 2005 as part of the deal that sent Jim Thome to Chicago and Aaron Rowand to Philadelphia. ∂
Williams said the move was designed to make room in the rotation for touted right-hander Brandon McCarthy. And the GM said he wasnít necessarily done dealing. ∂
"The Chicago White Sox are still open for business," he said. "This is a good first step. ... As we move through this year and next year, we feel these two guys will be able to feed into that rotation in an as-needed basis." ∂
AP-ES-12-06-06 2300EST ź

BeviBall!
12-06-2006, 11:16 PM
I'm extremely thankful Rowand is not going to be our starting centerfielder. Now, I believe Floyd and Anderson will be shipped out for Rocco. But, we still have some major holes in the pen. Neither of these pitchers fits that category. What doesn Pitts have for us? Aren't they due to help us out?

oeo
12-06-2006, 11:16 PM
This guy simply said that "reports out of Chicago say Rowand was included." He's probably reading about Tom Dore here.

Why the hell would Tom Dore say this? Was he fed some bad information, or what? :?:

JUribe1989
12-06-2006, 11:17 PM
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. (AP) ó The Chicago White Sox traded starting pitcher Freddy Garcia to the Philadelphia Phillies on Wednesday night for right-hander Gavin Floyd and a player to be named. ∂
White Sox manager Kenny Williams let slip during the announcement at baseballís winter meetings that the other player is pitcher Gio Gonzalez. ∂
"Itís 11 oíclock at night, what do you want?" Williams said. ∂
Garcia was 17-9 with a 4.53 ERA for Chicago last season. In 2005, Garcia was the Game 4 winner for the White Sox as they clinched their first World Series title since 1917 with a sweep of the Houston Astros. ∂
"Heís had to pitch when itís on the line," Phillies assistant general manager Mike Arbuckle said. "Heís had the opportunity to do things you want a pitcher to be able to do." ∂
The deal reconnects Garcia with his former general manager from Seattle, Pat Gillick, who has been working to upgrade the teamís pitching staff. Gillick had also been looking for a right-handed bat to protect NL MVP Ryan Howard, but said he didnít expect to find one and turned his attention to the pitching staff. ∂
Floyd was 4-3 with a 7.29 ERA in 11 starts for the Phillies last season before being optioned to Triple-A on June 3. The fourth overall selection in the 2001 draft, he turns 24 next month. ∂
"I think Gavinís going to be a little bit of a late bloomer," Arbuckle said. ∂
Gonzalez was traded from the White Sox to Phillies in November 2005 as part of the deal that sent Jim Thome to Chicago and Aaron Rowand to Philadelphia. ∂
Williams said the move was designed to make room in the rotation for touted right-hander Brandon McCarthy. And the GM said he wasnít necessarily done dealing. ∂
"The Chicago White Sox are still open for business," he said. "This is a good first step. ... As we move through this year and next year, we feel these two guys will be able to feed into that rotation in an as-needed basis." ∂
AP-ES-12-06-06 2300EST ź


Kenny better be bull ****ting us when he says that either of those clowns will be able to do **** for our rotation. What a joke!

JRIG
12-06-2006, 11:17 PM
You don't think they should have gotten more for a guy with 31 wins over the last two years while making the same money as Ted Lilly?

This seems about right to me. Garcia was toast for most of the season. He was getting the snot beat out of him. These teams have scouts -- they're not just looking at 2 great starts down the stretch. They also know about the drop in velociry from 92 to 86.

One starter about ML-ready, and one stud pitching prospect about a year away seems like a good prize. KW didn't take advantage of anyone, but I don't think he got ripped off either.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-06-2006, 11:18 PM
Why would TB want BA the last thing they need is another OF they are simply stocked at that position.

Jerome
12-06-2006, 11:18 PM
Rowand adds chemisty




what is he, a scientist?

last year the great Aaron Rowand was 262/321/425. i'd rather have a young BA and see if in another year he can get his **** together at the plate, while playing his usual solid defense. BA has succeeded at every level he has been at in the minors and I'm no minor league expert, but I believe that he is generally believed to have a higher ceiling than Rowand ever was.

OzzyTrain
12-06-2006, 11:18 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81896

Rowand talk was rumoring around the radio.

palehozenychicty
12-06-2006, 11:18 PM
I think that it will be a precursor to something else e.g. Baldelli/Wells/insert player here. The offseason is still young, and last year, KW was making deals up until ST. So I'm going to sit back and watch the bulls beat up on the sixers. wow, they're really bad.

samram
12-06-2006, 11:19 PM
I'm extremely thankful Rowand is not going to be our starting centerfielder. Now, I believe Floyd and Anderson will be shipped out for Rocco. But, we still have some major holes in the pen. Neither of these pitchers fits that category. What doesn Pitts have for us? Aren't they due to help us out?

Well, something has to happen now that they have $10 million to play with at least. At the very least, the 'pen has to be improved.

infohawk
12-06-2006, 11:19 PM
I checked my 2005 Baseball Prospectus book on Floyd. This kind of made me laugh:

While Floyd is plenty young and will have the opportunity to improve the finer points of his pitchingóhis curve might induce more strikeouts, for example, if he learns how to set it up betteróthere's also the chance that he winds up like Jon Garland, a merely competent pitcher who is perennially on the verge of a breakout that never comes.

How about that!

ShoelessJoeS
12-06-2006, 11:19 PM
I'm extremely thankful Rowand is not going to be our starting centerfielder. Now, I believe Floyd and Anderson will be shipped out for Rocco. But, we still have some major holes in the pen. Neither of these pitchers fits that category. What doesn Pitts have for us? Aren't they due to help us out?If we kept Gio and only had to trade Floyd and BA to the Rays....

:praying:

jenn2080
12-06-2006, 11:19 PM
This blows. I am not happy

ilsox7
12-06-2006, 11:19 PM
This seems about right to me. Garcia was toast for most of the season. He was getting the snot beat out of him. These teams have scouts -- they're not just looking at 2 great starts down the stretch. They also know about the drop in velociry from 92 to 86.

One starter about ML-ready, and one stud pitching prospect about a year away seems like a good prize. KW didn't take advantage of anyone, but I don't think he got ripped off either.

Exactly. Again, what would folks around here give up from the Sox organization for one year of a guy who sucked for 2/3 of last year andlost 5 mph on his fastball? His value was inflated on WSI. He wasnever going to bring Wells or Crawford.

MUsoxfan
12-06-2006, 11:20 PM
Maybe all the other GMs called his bluff and wouldn't budge on his demands...


So keep Freddy. The Sox were a better team for next year just by standing pat. Now they got exponentially worse. I hate trading just for the sake of making a move

Beer Can Chicken
12-06-2006, 11:20 PM
You don't think they should have gotten more for a guy with 31 wins over the last two years while making the same money as Ted Lilly?

What would you have given up for a 31 win starter with 1 year left on his contract? I personally wouldnt give up much proven talent, especially if I was a team looking to contend.

getonbckthr
12-06-2006, 11:20 PM
Floyd, Gio, Reynoso for Crawford????

Foulke You
12-06-2006, 11:21 PM
This seems about right to me. Garcia was toast for most of the season. He was getting the snot beat out of him. These teams have scouts -- they're not just looking at 2 great starts down the stretch. They also know about the drop in velociry from 92 to 86.

One starter about ML-ready, and one stud pitching prospect about a year away seems like a good prize. KW didn't take advantage of anyone, but I don't think he got ripped off either.
By September though, Freddy's velocity was back up to 90-91 and his splitter was devestating hence the 4W-0L record. I look at the body of work for Freddy and agree with what most feel on this board and that is KW got worked over in this deal. The Phils just got a front of the rotation, innings eating, playoff winning horse for fringe prospects. Well done on Philly's part. If you are a Phillies fan, you have to love this deal.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 11:21 PM
Why the hell would Tom Dore say this? Was he fed some bad information, or what? :?:Like that would be a first.:cool:

ukigdog
12-06-2006, 11:22 PM
GUYS, no doubt there is something else to happen very very soon! Read the headline on chisox.com right before the trade went down. it says that white sox are waiting for something that fits. and KW said that hes waiting to make sure that it all fits for the sox and works before he deals a starter. this offer was available from yesterday. the trib had an article today saying that floyd and rowand, etc. he was just waiting for the other pieces to be in place. this is just the first trade of at least one more. my guess is rocco baldelli, but who knows, i just know its someone else !

getonbckthr
12-06-2006, 11:22 PM
Floyd, Gio and Reynoso for Crawford?

johnnyg83
12-06-2006, 11:22 PM
My stomache hurts

Hagan
12-06-2006, 11:23 PM
This seems about right to me. Garcia was toast for most of the season. He was getting the snot beat out of him. These teams have scouts -- they're not just looking at 2 great starts down the stretch. They also know about the drop in velociry from 92 to 86.

One starter about ML-ready, and one stud pitching prospect about a year away seems like a good prize. KW didn't take advantage of anyone, but I don't think he got ripped off either.
when you say ML ready i hope you minor league ready because floyd is not almost major league ready. Also gio is not a stud prospect. He is a good prospect who has some questionmarks behind him. his walks were up last year but on a good note his K/9 were steady pitching in AA.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 11:24 PM
Floyd, Gio and Reynoso for Crawford?Get real. It's not going to be Crawford...not without throwing in a much bigger piece than Reynoso. Baldelli might be more reasonable.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-06-2006, 11:24 PM
GUYS, no doubt there is something else to happen very very soon! Read the headline on chisox.com right before the trade went down. it says that white sox are waiting for something that fits. and KW said that hes waiting to make sure that it all fits for the sox and works before he deals a starter. this offer was available from yesterday. the trib had an article today saying that floyd and rowand, etc. he was just waiting for the other pieces to be in place. this is just the first trade of at least one more. my guess is rocco baldelli, but who knows, i just know its someone else !

That's what I was thinking, but I don't like Baldelli. Isn't he almost always injured?

dangler
12-06-2006, 11:24 PM
Me no likey this trade.

:(:

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 11:24 PM
This seems about right to me. Garcia was toast for most of the season. He was getting the snot beat out of him. These teams have scouts -- they're not just looking at 2 great starts down the stretch. They also know about the drop in velociry from 92 to 86.

One starter about ML-ready, and one stud pitching prospect about a year away seems like a good prize. KW didn't take advantage of anyone, but I don't think he got ripped off either.

Well, it's about fair value. The thing is, I think a lot of people thought that given the current price of crappy pitching, and Freddy's contract for next year, Kenny could rip off some team for a pitcher like Freddy. Maybe we were all mistaken. Obviously we don't know what the real offers were for Garcia. But it does seem like a very quick move. I expected KW to wait longer and let teams get more desperate.