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JB98
12-05-2006, 09:33 PM
Ozzie's comments today, courtesy of the Daily Southtown:


"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."

Brian26
12-05-2006, 09:36 PM
"But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."


That's right, Ozzie. Let's save the outfield reserve role for the sure-hands of Pablo Ozuna. :D:

Trav
12-05-2006, 09:39 PM
They should have had a backup OF on the team to start with.

JB98
12-05-2006, 09:41 PM
In the same story, there were also some interesting comments from both Ozzie and KW about too many players reporting to camp out of shape last season.

I'm not going to post them, though, because I want y'all to buy the paper tomorrow. :D:

sox230
12-05-2006, 09:41 PM
Where the hell was this philosophy in the stretch run last year???????????

ShoelessJoeS
12-05-2006, 09:54 PM
Ozzie's comments today, courtesy of the Daily Southtown:


"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency.":bandance:

Finally Ozzie, took you long enough.

Martinigirl
12-05-2006, 10:20 PM
Where the hell was this philosophy in the stretch run last year???????????

Exactly. If Ozzie would have had this epiphany in say July of last year, I truly believe we would have made the playoffs.

JB98
12-05-2006, 10:25 PM
Exactly. If Ozzie would have had this epiphany in say July of last year, I truly believe we would have made the playoffs.

Not with that pitching staff. Our bullpen was hideous the second half. If we could have held a lead in the late innings, we would have made the playoffs regardless of the train wreck that was CF last year.

CashMan
12-05-2006, 10:28 PM
Ozzie's comments today, courtesy of the Daily Southtown:


"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."

So it took 162 games to figure out Mack isnt a CFer?

itsnotrequired
12-05-2006, 10:33 PM
Where the hell was this philosophy in the stretch run last year???????????

You don't want to change horses midstream.

:rolleyes:

champagne030
12-05-2006, 10:45 PM
Ozzie's comments today, courtesy of the Daily Southtown:


"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."

No ****ing ****! It took you a full season to figure that out? At least he learned his lesson. Now Kenny needs to learn his and find a legit 4th OF who can play CF in case BA bats .160 for a two month period again.

ondafarm
12-05-2006, 10:46 PM
Well, I for one am happy that Ozzie admits his mistakes and learns from them.

palehozenychicty
12-05-2006, 10:53 PM
Well, I for one am happy that Ozzie admits his mistakes and learns from them.

I think that it's the third time that the Oz has admitted he's wrong this year. :redneck

DickAllen72
12-05-2006, 11:07 PM
"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said.
Looks like KW finally got through to Ozzie.

"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."
That means either Gload, Ozuna or Cintron is the odd man out. They just signed Ozuna and Gload. Cintron is the only one of the three that can play an acceptable SS.

The two with the most trade value would be Mack and Cintron. But as noted above, Cintron is the only backup SS of the bunch. It will be interesting.

Torrero should be the backup CF.

kitekrazy
12-05-2006, 11:17 PM
In the same story, there were also some interesting comments from both Ozzie and KW about too many players reporting to camp out of shape last season.

I'm not going to post them, though, because I want y'all to buy the paper tomorrow. :D:

It doesn't surprise me. Most guys probably thought they didn't have to compete for a starting job either.

23Ventura
12-05-2006, 11:23 PM
Ozzie's comments today, courtesy of the Daily Southtown:


"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."
Better late than never I guess.

JB98
12-05-2006, 11:33 PM
It doesn't surprise me. Most guys probably thought they didn't have to compete for a starting job either.

Actually, three of the four fat-asses that Ozzie calls out are pitchers: Buerhle, Garcia and Jenks. Uribe is also mentioned for his lack of conditioning.

DickAllen72
12-05-2006, 11:33 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061205&content_id=1751966&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Now Ozzie is talking about dropping Dye back down to fifth in the order to put Thome back in the third spot. I'd rather see Dye third followed by Thome and Konerko.

He also mentioned the possibility of Iguchi leading off but then said as of now Podsednik is still the leadoff man. I think that's interesting because it's the first time to my knowledge Ozzie has ever publicly considered Iguchi leading off--he always talked about moving him down.

Ozzie does love to talk.....:cool:

ondafarm
12-06-2006, 12:01 AM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061205&content_id=1751966&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Now Ozzie is talking about dropping Dye back down to fifth in the order to put Thome back in the third spot. I'd rather see Dye third followed by Thome and Konerko.

He also mentioned the possibility of Iguchi leading off but then said as of now Podsednik is still the leadoff man. I think that's interesting because it's the first time to my knowledge Ozzie has ever publicly considered Iguchi leading off--he always talked about moving him down.

Ozzie does love to talk.....:cool:

At the start of the season Thome is better off in the #3 spot and Dye in the #5 spot. Late in the season they should switch.

Jjav829
12-06-2006, 12:20 AM
No ****ing ****! It took you a full season to figure that out? At least he learned his lesson. Now Kenny needs to learn his and find a legit 4th OF who can play CF in case BA bats .160 for a two month period again.

You kinda contradicted yourself there. First you blame Ozzie for playing Mackowiak in center. Then you say KW needs to find a 4th outfielder. Well, we didn't have a 4th OF who could play center last year, which is why Ozzie put Mackowiak out there.

IlliniSox4Life
12-06-2006, 12:50 AM
We do need a fourth outfielder. It would be nice for one of our young guys to be that fourth outfielder, but we need a fourth outfielder who can hit, and you can't gaurantee that with a rookie.

I hope we keep Cintron, as I think he has the most upside of any of the bench players we have. I also want to keep Mackowiak because he's a hometown guy. I also love Gload and Ozuna. I don't know who to give up.

Soxfanspcu11
12-06-2006, 05:42 AM
Not with that pitching staff. Our bullpen was hideous the second half. If we could have held a lead in the late innings, we would have made the playoffs regardless of the train wreck that was CF last year.


Could not agree more!

My friends and I followed this situation VERY closely last year.

Mack cost us about 6-8 games with his defense in center.

If Brian were out there instead of him in those situations, and the Sox went on to win those games...................................

Who knows?:mad:

soxinem1
12-06-2006, 08:14 AM
In all honesty, what's done is done. I agree with almost every post in this thread, but in the end it was Ozzie who let the press dictate his line up. When the team was ripping the cover off the ball most of the first half and BA was clueless, at least he covered ground in CF.

Every team in MLB can go back and point at sore spots of the season, but remember Mackowiak won a few games with his bat that may not have been won if he wasn't in the lineup. After all, who knows what the guy in his place would have done offensvely.

While I agree Mackowiak's defense did lead to several blown games, it was our bullpen that was the main culprit. If they slam the door just 70% of the times they did in 2005, the White Sox make the playoffs, Rob K in CF or not.

I like all of our bench guys too, but odds are one of them are gone if the Sox choose to have an extra backup OF, and I'd have to say it could be any of them except Cintron.

Ozuna is really limited on the positions he can play and OF is not one of them. His defense at SS and 3B, though he tries, is so-so and I don't think he was ever used much at 2B. Between him and Pods, the Sox led the league last year in frozen looks by LF's on flyballs.

Cintron can play anywhere on the IF well and got some real clutch hits (despite too many GIDP's) for us in 2006. Because of this I doubt he goes anywhere.

Mackowiak will make more than Pods in 2007 but can play 3B and 2B decently. It seems RF is his best defensive spot in the OF, but if he plays too much there, we know we have problems.

And as much as I like him, Gload is the most limited of the bunch defensively, though his bat is the best of this group. But Mack, Thome, or Dye can play 1B if need be, and that is his best position. He may be most likely to go.

CLR01
12-06-2006, 08:16 AM
Actually, three of the four fat-asses that Ozzie calls out are pitchers: Buerhle, Garcia and Jenks. Uribe is also mentioned for his lack of conditioning.


Ozzie better watch what he says about Uribe or he will find himself standing too close to his jeep.

jenn2080
12-06-2006, 08:18 AM
Ozzie's comments today, courtesy of the Daily Southtown:


"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."

All I have to say is DUH! Did he just watch the games in the off season?

Minnie Me
12-06-2006, 08:37 AM
We have a log jam of "utility" players.
IMHO its between Mack and Gload as they both can "play" IF and OF and bat from the left side. Ozzie obviously thinks Mack is the cats pajamas, so it looks like Gload is out.
He probably will be thrown in a trade and will be a bargin for some other team. Ross is one hell of a hitter and I hate to see him go. I can see him being valuable for some NL team as a 1b/pitch hitter.

the gooch
12-06-2006, 08:38 AM
As a bench player, I find Ozuna acceptable defensively around the infield. I am comfortable with Ozuna and Cintron, and if Mack is no longer going to play outfield, I would rather see him go.

Ozuna is the last guy I want to see go because of the pinch running situation. He's not great, but good will suffice.

It will be interesting to see where KW plays this. Will he continue to listen to Ozzie's needs (versatility), or will he give him what KW believes is the best team? Trade Mack for a bullpen arm (I've been saying that since early '06) and hope Terrero works out.

Minnie Me
12-06-2006, 09:28 AM
As a bench player, I find Ozuna acceptable defensively around the infield. I am comfortable with Ozuna and Cintron, and if Mack is no longer going to play outfield, I would rather see him go.

Ozuna is the last guy I want to see go because of the pinch running situation. He's not great, but good will suffice.

It will be interesting to see where KW plays this. Will he continue to listen to Ozzie's needs (versatility), or will he give him what KW believes is the best team? Trade Mack for a bullpen arm (I've been saying that since early '06) and hope Terrero works out.

I guess it will boil down to how much we can get for either Gload or Mack. I think Ozuna stays because of his speed off the bench and Cintron still is our main back up at SS. Gload and Mack just have too many similarities to keep both.

jenn2080
12-06-2006, 09:31 AM
I guess it will boil down to how much we can get for either Gload or Mack. I think Ozuna stays because of his speed off the bench and Cintron still is our main back up at SS. Gload and Mack just have too many similarities to keep both.


We are not getting rid of Ross Gload anytime soon! Get rid of Rob.

salty99
12-06-2006, 09:36 AM
We have Jerry Owens or Ryan Sweeney to play outfield.

ajismyhero
12-06-2006, 09:47 AM
Rowand can be our back up OFer!!!

Minnie Me
12-06-2006, 09:57 AM
Maybe Ryan as a option, but wouldn't he benefit from another full season in the minors? Forget about Owens, I doubt if he will ever make the team this year.

champagne030
12-06-2006, 10:11 AM
You kinda contradicted yourself there. First you blame Ozzie for playing Mackowiak in center. Then you say KW needs to find a 4th outfielder. Well, we didn't have a 4th OF who could play center last year, which is why Ozzie put Mackowiak out there.

Not having a 4th OF isn't a valid reason to put a utility infielder in CF. BA should've started 24 out of 25 games after 6/15.

tstrike2000
12-06-2006, 11:06 AM
"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."

It took him the entire '06 season to figure this out?? :?:

Flight #24
12-06-2006, 11:37 AM
Pirates are looking for a LH 1b in trade for Mike Gonzalez. Sox are looking for another reliever and have excess of backup 1B (with Mack able to play there, Fields possibly another option, and Thome as a last resort/occasional sub available).

Gload+low-level prospect for Gonzalez?

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 11:43 AM
Pirates are looking for a LH 1b in trade for Mike Gonzalez. Sox are looking for another reliever and have excess of backup 1B (with Mack able to play there, Fields possibly another option, and Thome as a last resort/occasional sub available).

Gload+low-level prospect for Gonzalez?According to this story (http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061205&content_id=1751782&vkey=news_pit&fext=.jsp&c_id=pit) on the Pirates' website, they already turned down Adam LaRoche for Gonzalez.

ewokpelts
12-06-2006, 11:49 AM
No ****ing ****! It took you a full season to figure that out? At least he learned his lesson. Now Kenny needs to learn his and find a legit 4th OF who can play CF in case BA bats .160 for a two month period again.BA was batting 9th..do you really expect the 9th hitter to hit .300?

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 12:00 PM
BA was batting 9th..do you really expect the 9th hitter to hit .300?People need to can this "hitting 9th" argument. It's seriously lame. If he hit worth a damn, he wouldn't be hitting 9th. He'd be hitting higher in the order and they could move someone else into the 9th spot, thereby improving TWO spots in the lineup. For all but about 8 weeks of the season he was like having the pitcher bat.

jenn2080
12-06-2006, 12:02 PM
BA was batting 9th..do you really expect the 9th hitter to hit .300?


Of course. Come on that is why everyone wanted his head this year. :rolleyes:

kobo
12-06-2006, 12:12 PM
At least he admitted he ****ed up. Why he was so stubborn during the season I will never understand.

CLR01
12-06-2006, 01:06 PM
People need to can this "hitting 9th" argument. It's seriously lame. If he hit worth a damn, he wouldn't be hitting 9th. He'd be hitting higher in the order and they could move someone else into the 9th spot, thereby improving TWO spots in the lineup. For all but about 8 weeks of the season he was like having the pitcher bat.


Who Uribe? Huge improvement.

The rookie now has to be good enough to allow for the can't hit shortstop to bat 9th and continue his career of sucking?

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 01:09 PM
Who Uribe? Huge improvement.

The rookie now has to be good enough to allow for the can't hit shortstop to bat 9th and continue his career of sucking?No, he just has to be good enough to hit more than his weight for more than 8 weeks out of the season. Hitting 9th is not a free pass to suck.

JB98
12-06-2006, 02:01 PM
We are not getting rid of Ross Gload anytime soon! Get rid of Rob.

I'd rather keep Mackowiak. I think Gload is a slightly better hitter than Rob is, but Rob plays more positions. I really like versatility out of bench guys, and we get that from Mackowiak.

I think Rob can play each of the corner positions on the field reasonably well. The problem is Ozzie put him in CF, which he cannot handle. That has caused a lot of WSIers to have a negative opinion of Mackowiak, when in reality they should be unhappy with KW for not giving Ozzie a reasonable alternative as a backup CF for 2006.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 02:32 PM
I'd rather keep Mackowiak. I think Gload is a slightly better hitter than Rob is, but Rob plays more positions. I really like versatility out of bench guys, and we get that from Mackowiak.

I think Rob can play each of the corner positions on the field reasonably well. The problem is Ozzie put him in CF, which he cannot handle. That has caused a lot of WSIers to have a negative opinion of Mackowiak, when in reality they should be unhappy with KW for not giving Ozzie a reasonable alternative as a backup CF for 2006.Gload has to be worth a lot more to another team than he is to the Sox. When your only real position is backing up a guy who plays 150+ games a year, it's pretty hard to earn a roster spot.

JB98
12-06-2006, 02:44 PM
Gload has to be worth a lot more to another team than he is to the Sox. When your only real position is backing up a guy who plays 150+ games a year, it's pretty hard to earn a roster spot.

No question. It's always hard for Ross to get at-bats. As much as anything, I think he's being kept around in case we have an injury at DH. Thome isn't getting any younger and has battled injuries the last two years. Still, I think Mackowiak could fill that role just as well. We just need to find a way to keep Rob out of CF.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 02:49 PM
No question. It's always hard for Ross to get at-bats. As much as anything, I think he's being kept around in case we have an injury at DH. Thome isn't getting any younger and has battled injuries the last two years. Still, I think Mackowiak could fill that role just as well. We just need to find a way to keep Rob out of CF.This is why I liked the idea of getting Figgins. He could be the fallback in CF if Anderson flops again. If they trade Crede, Figgins could also be the insurance for Fields. If he bounces back from his poor year last year, he might even displace Podsednik. Lots of possibilities.

jenn2080
12-06-2006, 02:51 PM
I'd rather keep Mackowiak. I think Gload is a slightly better hitter than Rob is, but Rob plays more positions. I really like versatility out of bench guys, and we get that from Mackowiak.

I think Rob can play each of the corner positions on the field reasonably well. The problem is Ozzie put him in CF, which he cannot handle. That has caused a lot of WSIers to have a negative opinion of Mackowiak, when in reality they should be unhappy with KW for not giving Ozzie a reasonable alternative as a backup CF for 2006.


Ross can play all positions. He is Ross Gload. Might as well be Superman.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 02:54 PM
Ross can play all positions. He is Ross Gload. Might as well be Superman.Well then send him out to the bullpen. They could use another lefty option.:cool:

Palehose13
12-06-2006, 02:55 PM
Ross can play all positions. He is Ross Gload. Might as well be Superman.

Jenn, for all of us, please step away from the pitcher!

http://www.parkwayreststop.com/archives/Kool-Aid.jpg

jenn2080
12-06-2006, 03:01 PM
Jenn, for all of us, please step away from the pitcher!

http://www.parkwayreststop.com/archives/Kool-Aid.jpg


You will come around. Just you wait and see. :D:

The thought of a pitcher of anything turns my stomach.

Oldfellah
12-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Seems to me with all this Ozzie hate about last year, that you would rather have Jerry Manuel Manure back or maybe even Bev??!! What the hell,,, the team didn't have the drive from '05,, it's a new year coming up. Now have a little faith in the Coach that got us the WSC before I come over and start trout slapping.

ondafarm
12-06-2006, 03:58 PM
Seems to me with all this Ozzie hate about last year, that you would rather have Jerry Manuel Manure back or maybe even Bev??!! What the hell,,, the team didn't have the drive from '05,, it's a new year coming up. Now have a little faith in the Coach that got us the WSC before I come over and start trout slapping.


Ozzie isn't a perfect manager, but he's pretty good. I'm glad he admitted his mistakes from last year and will improve on them this coming year. I expect The Sox to be in the playoffs this (2007) year and think they could win. Let's see how the pitching acquistions look by February.

JB98
12-06-2006, 07:50 PM
Ross can play all positions. He is Ross Gload. Might as well be Superman.

How about backup catcher? :D:

MRM
12-06-2006, 08:27 PM
This is why I liked the idea of getting Figgins. He could be the fallback in CF if Anderson flops again. If they trade Crede, Figgins could also be the insurance for Fields. If he bounces back from his poor year last year, he might even displace Podsednik. Lots of possibilities.

This is exactly why I -don't- like the idea of Figgins. The Sox have no clear need or spot for him. He'd be an insurance policy, little more. Why trade anything of significance for a super-utility guy who is a mediocre fielder anywhere you put him?

MRM
12-06-2006, 08:29 PM
Ross can play all positions. He is Ross Gload. Might as well be Superman.

Ross is fantastic trade bait somewhere down the road.

Myrtle72
12-06-2006, 08:38 PM
Ross can play all positions. He is Ross Gload. Might as well be Superman.

I agree. Gload is great. He is in a different category all together, can't compare him to Mack.

Ol' No. 2
12-06-2006, 09:31 PM
This is exactly why I -don't- like the idea of Figgins. The Sox have no clear need or spot for him. He'd be an insurance policy, little more. Why trade anything of significance for a super-utility guy who is a mediocre fielder anywhere you put him?I didn't say I'd give up a starting pitcher for him, but I'd hardly call him mediocre. And if the Sox go into 2007 with Anderson in CF and Fields at 3B, they sure as hell need an insurance policy. Or didn't we learn anything from 2006?

Iguana775
12-07-2006, 08:29 AM
Ozzie's comments today, courtesy of the Daily Southtown:


"I won't play him there next year - I don't want to get fired," Guillen said. "I blame myself - I don't blame 'Mack.' I don't think my coaching staff worked with him the way we should have in spring training.
"I think we should play him at third base more. A little bit at first base more. Second base. And don't just say, 'You are the backup outfielder.' I think Mackowiak should be the utility guy to play everywhere. The way he swings the bat - he helps us. But I think he should go to the outfield (only) in an emergency."

Would have been nice if he realized this LAST YEAR.