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Lip Man 1
12-05-2006, 12:54 PM
One of the 'worst' and 'best' deals ever completed by the franchise. Both on the same day...

December 6, 1959 - In an effort to try to repeat as American League champs Bill Veeck and Hank Greenberg decide to make a series of moves to bring in hitters at the expense of some of the top young players in the Sox system. Veeck originally tired to get young stars like Orlando Cepeda from the Giants and Bill White from the Cardinals but was turned down. So he went in the only direction he felt he could. The first deal brings the Sox back outfielder "Minnie" Minoso at the cost of future power hitting first baseman Norm Cash and future power hitting catcher Johnny Romano. Cleveland also gets "Bubba" Phillips. Both Cash and Romano would be All Stars in the ensuing seasons. Sox manager Al Lopez is quoted after the controversial deal as saying, "Some of us, like me, are not worried about next year because we might not be around then."

December 6, 1984 - One of the most brilliant deals even completed by Roland Hemond. A deal that paid dividends immediately and twenty years down the line. Hemond sends former Cy Young Award winner LaMarr Hoyt to the Padres in a package deal that nets the Sox a twenty year old shortstop named Ozzie Guillen. The Sox also get valuable utility player Luis Salazar. Guillen immediately goes on to fill a gaping hole in the infield and is named Rookie Of The Year. He’d win a Gold Glove and become a three time All Star before coming back as manager in 2004. He’d then win the World Series in 2005. Hoyt would be out of baseball by 1987 after battling weight and drug addition issues.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/five55/.mids/H100159509.jpg (http://cgi.ebay.com/1959-TOPPS-NORM-CASH-509-WHITE-SOX-ROOKIE-CARD-RC-HI_W0QQitemZ220056247519QQihZ012QQcategoryZ60477QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting)http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f142/wingedwheel1/Cards/a01/a01c345.jpg (http://cgi.ebay.com/1966-TOPPS-413-JOHNNY-ROMANO-WHITE-SOX-EX-a01_W0QQitemZ190013133067QQihZ009QQcategoryZ60494Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting)

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/7b/5e/8fac_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/OZZIE-GUILLEN-TOPPS-1985-TRADED-ROOKIE-CARD-43T_W0QQitemZ130053480339QQihZ003QQcategoryZ636QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting)

Lip

stl_sox_fan
12-05-2006, 02:30 PM
December 6, 1984 - One of the most brilliant deals even completed by Roland Hemond. A deal that paid dividends immediately and twenty years down the line. Hemond send former Cy Young Award winner LaMarr Hoyt to the Padres in a package deal that nets the Sox a twenty year old shortstop named Ozzie Guillen. The Sox also get valuable utility player Luis Salazar. Guillen immediately goes on to fill a gaping hole in the infield and is named Rookie Of The Year. He’d win a Gold Glove and become a three time All Star before coming back as manager in 2004. He’d then win the World Series in 2005. Hoyt would be out of baseball by 1987 after battling weight and drug addition issues.

Aquiring Guillen was the true definition of "laying the foundation".
Plus they got the person at the center of my favorite Harry Carayism.
"Salazar spelled backwards is R-A-Z-A-L-A-S."

sageofthesox
12-05-2006, 02:39 PM
I remember how much criticism Hemond took for making this trade. At the time, the local and national media really worked him over.

Britt Burns
12-05-2006, 02:56 PM
I remember how much criticism Hemond took for making this trade. At the time, the local and national media really worked him over.

In 2003 I went to a Sox spring training game in Arizona and just by luck happened to sit right next to Hemond. I didn't want to be a homer and bother him the whole game, but I did briefly introduce myself and tell him how much I appreciated all he had done for the Sox. He spent the next hour or so just talking baseball to me, and it was needless to say the thrill of a lifetime. RH knows more baseball than than every sportswriter, announcer, or hanger-on/ESPN gadfly put together, and he is an incredibly nice person to boot. The Sox are lucky that he he was and has been affiliated with the team for so long.

StatManDu
12-05-2006, 03:29 PM
In honor of that trade, here is a column I wrote for my local paper when Roland Hemond came to town (I cut and paste since it's mine) in April. Hemond touches on a few interesting topics ... I have talked with Hemond many times and every time is better than the last.

Enjoy!

In my gleeful post-World Series column of Oct. 28, I called Ozzie Guillen the most significant figure in the history of the Chicago White Sox.
Not a bad call considering Guillen had brilliantly managed the team to their first World Series title in 88 years after a playing career that included a division championship, a Rookie of the Year Award, a Gold Glove, two All-Star berths and tremendous popularity.
However, after a conversation I had in Kenosha recently, I am thinking of changing my mind.
Roland Hemond is certainly in the running for the title of “Most Significant Figure in White Sox History.”
Without stretching the bounds of credibility too much, it could be argued that if Hemond had never joined the White Sox, the White Sox would be no more.
On Sept. 2, 1970, Hemond was hired as White Sox general manager with the team mired in its worst season ever. When 1970 ended, the White Sox were 56-106, 42 games out of first place and had drawn only 495,355 to Comiskey Park.
Hemond and manager Chuck Tanner improved the Sox by 23 wins and nearly 400,000 fans in 1971.
Following that campaign, Hemond made one of the greatest trades in club history when he acquired the enigmatic Dick Allen from the Los Angeles Dodgers for Tommy John and Steve Huntz.
It was a deal that provided the White Sox with a superstar drawing card and it carried the franchise through the middle part of the decade.
“That club was in dire straits when Chuck Tanner and I joined them in September of 1970,” Hemond said prior to the Outstanding Kenoshan Banquet last week at UAW Local 72 Headquarters.
“We made quite a number of trades that first winter and improved by 23 games. The next year, Al Campanis of the Dodgers said he would consider trading Dick Allen. He wanted Tommy John and Terry Forster. I said, ‘I can’t give you Forster. He could be another Koufax.’ In any event, we arrived at a trade.
“Chuck Tanner had known Dick real well. They lived in the same area. I said, ‘Chuck, what do you think?’ And Chuck said, ‘I’d love to have him.’ ”
Allen went on to win the 1972 American League MVP Award in becoming (with the help of the club’s TV voice Harry Caray) one of the most popular figures in Chicago.
The sheer force of Allen’s talent kept the Sox in the hunt for the Western Division title for most of that season before they succumbed to the eventual World Series champion Oakland A’s.
“Allen came and he was a success story, the MVP,” said Hemond, who was at the banquet because he was instrumental in signing its honoree -- Bob Lee -- to a contract with the Milwaukee Braves in the 1950s.
“The club drew over a million. If (third baseman Bill) Melton (who had won the last two A.L. home run titles) didn’t come up with a herniated disc in mid-season, he played just 60 games that year, I think that club would have gone onto the World Series.”
Four years later, another crisis surfaced and it appeared the Sox were headed out of town. Bill Veeck arrived on a white horse with investors and kept the team (and Hemond) in Chicago. In Hemond’s second season with Veeck, the Sox fielded one of the most entertaining teams in club annals, “The 1977 South Side Hit Men.” Hemond-acquisitions Richie Zisk, Oscar Gamble, Eric Soderholm and Chet Lemon powered the Sox to 90 wins and another strong, franchise-saving showing at the gate (a record 1,657,000 fans).
When Jerry Reinsdorf’s group bought the club in 1981, they wisely kept Hemond. Two years into the ownership, the “Winning Ugly” Sox cruised to the American League West title.
The franchise was unable to sustain that momentum and faltered badly in 1984.
Hemond responded to that malaise by acquiring an effervescent 20-year-old shortstop named Ozzie Guillen in a blockbuster trade with the San Diego Padres that had the Sox surrendering LaMarr Hoyt, just a season removed from 24 wins and a Cy Young Award.
While Hemond didn’t know he was acquiring a World Series manager at the time, he said Guillen displayed leadership ability early in his professional career.
“(White Sox) scouts Jerry Krause and Duane Shaffer told me how much (Guillen) loved to play,” said Hemond, who was wearing his World Series ring in Kenosha that night.
“When he showed up the next spring, I was stunned to see how small he was. (Manager) Tony LaRussa had a great chat with him in spring training (in 1985) and he went about his work real well.
“He took charge of the infield. He’d come in and talk to the pitcher. He was always very much into the game. He showed traits of leadership and managerial possibilities. When he was playing in the farm system of the Padres, he was the same way.
“He showed the attributes of being a manager. You can’t predict what happened (with the World Series) but it’s not surprising that he was Manager of the Year and had all that success.”
If that wasn’t enough, Hemond was also the man who drafted Kenny Williams -- the general manager who assembled the 2005 World Series team -- into the White Sox organization.
The Sox used a third-round pick on Williams in the 1982 draft and lured him away from the Stanford football program, which at that time had John Elway at quarterback.
“Jerry Reinsdorf helped to sign him,” Hemond said. “He visited with the family to sign him.
“We knew since he was a football player he would be tough to sign but we got him.”
There was some turbulence between Hemond and the White Sox.
He lost his general manager’s job to Ken Harrelson after the 1986 season. Following stints in the Baltimore and Arizona organizations, Hemond was brought back to Chicago by Williams as an Executive Advisor the General Manager, the position which he currently holds.
In his sixth season back with the White Sox, Hemond watched the scrawny shortstop he acquired from the San Diego organization and the outfielder he talked out of a football career at Stanford push the White Sox to a championship.
He attended Games 3 and 4 of the World Series in Houston — because of the length of Game 3 both contests fell on his birthday — and watched the Sox finish off the Astros for the title.
“It was hard to describe,” said Hemond, a baseball lifer who has spent more than a half century in the game.
“It was very emotional for me. That’s the ultimate of my career.”
Not a bad run for the Most Significant Figure in White Sox History.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-05-2006, 04:04 PM
Paragraphs are useful tools.

Ziggy S
12-05-2006, 04:48 PM
Of all the terrfic moves Ken Williams has made, the best may have been bringing back Roland Hemond.

JungleJimR
12-05-2006, 04:52 PM
The 1959 offseason dates of terrible trades does not end with the Dec 7th one - and I don't know if it was before or after this date, but during this period Veeck also traded 2 other future all-stars, Johnny Callison and Earl Battey, for Gene Freese and maybe someone else.

I contend that Veeck cost the Sox at least 2 pennants in the pre-expansion 60's as they continued to have very good pitching (Peters, Pizzaro, Hebert, Buzhardt, etc) but couldn't hit worth a lick. The Sox fell short to the Yankees every year and were within several games at the end of a couple of years during this period.

Veeck did Wreck the Sox!!

Lip Man 1
12-05-2006, 05:43 PM
Jungle Jim:

Stay tuned for the other two deals you mentioned (one took place in April)

Keep in mind though, and I'm not defending or attacking Bill, that it was his brilliant move the following off season that got Pizarro in the first place.

It's interesting to speculate what may have happened had the Sox gotten Cepeda and White, the two guys Veeck really wanted.

Rich Lindberg in his WSI Interview talks about Bill and feels that when he repurchased the team in December 1975, he literally saved it from himself because of the consequences of his off season moves in the Winter of 59 / Spring of 1960.

Lip

Lip Man 1
12-05-2006, 05:44 PM
Britt:

Having had the pleasure to speak with Roland many times, I agree 100% with your comments. He is a brilliant baseball man and a nice person to boot.

Lip

Brian26
12-05-2006, 08:24 PM
It's interesting to speculate what may have happened had the Sox gotten Cepeda and White, the two guys Veeck really wanted.

This is almost worthy of another thread...

Brian26
12-05-2006, 08:41 PM
Hemond sent former Cy Young Award winner LaMarr Hoyt to the Padres in a package deal that nets the Sox a twenty year old shortstop named Ozzie Guillen. The Sox also get valuable utility player Luis Salazar.

I remember the Sox also got Tim Lollar in that deal, although he didn't do much out of the bullpen in '85. Wasn't there one other player? Was it John Davis?

Lip Man 1
12-05-2006, 09:50 PM
Bill Long

Lip

StatManDu
12-05-2006, 11:45 PM
The complete trade was Ozzie Guillen, Tim Lollar, Bill Long and Luis Salazar to the Sox for pitchers LaMarr Hoyt, Todd Simmons and Kevin Kristan.