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View Full Version : A Rod to the Sox??? Part Deux


Gammons Peter
12-04-2006, 12:34 PM
Everybody is assuming that A-Rod will play SS. I have heard at least two scouts say that he is no longer capable of playing that position.

SABRSox
12-04-2006, 12:47 PM
Everybody is assuming that A-Rod will play SS. I have heard at least two scouts say that he is no longer capable of playing that position.

Bull****.

EMachine10
12-04-2006, 12:55 PM
not sure that i understand why a professional athelete would be unable to play his natural position after a few years off.

itsnotrequired
12-04-2006, 01:05 PM
not sure that i understand why a professional athelete would be unable to play his natural position after a few years off.

Some scouts said so. Proof enough for me.

:rolleyes:

Hangar18
12-04-2006, 01:06 PM
Why are the Yankees so interested in moving him now?

jenn2080
12-04-2006, 01:10 PM
Everybody is assuming that A-Rod will play SS. I have heard at least two scouts say that he is no longer capable of playing that position.


That is lame. Are they him? :rolleyes: I just hope he does not come to the Sox. I do not care what position he plays.

CHISOXFAN13
12-04-2006, 01:11 PM
Why are the Yankees so interested in moving him now?

Nobody said they were.

Hitmen77
12-04-2006, 01:11 PM
If the rumor is Crede + Garcia for A-Rod, then how to people figure that A-Rod would be able to move back to SS? He'd be replacing Crede, not Uribe. So, as Crede's replacement, wouldn't he be playing 3B for us?

Maybe I'm missing something.

Flight #24
12-04-2006, 01:12 PM
If the rumor is Crede + Garcia for A-Rod, then how to people figure that A-Rod would be able to move back to SS? He'd be replacing Crede, not Uribe. So, as Crede's replacement, wouldn't he be playing 3B for us?

Maybe I'm missing something.


Josh Fields --> 3B
ARod --> SS
Juan Uribe --> Elsewhere

CHISOXFAN13
12-04-2006, 01:12 PM
If the rumor is Crede + Garcia for A-Rod, then how to people figure that A-Rod would be able to move back to SS? He'd be replacing Crede, not Uribe. So, as Crede's replacement, wouldn't he be playing 3B for us?

Maybe I'm missing something.


Josh Fields ring a bell?

kittle42
12-04-2006, 01:13 PM
I just hope he does not come to the Sox. I do not care what position he plays.

Why? Because he's an amazing hitter and defender?

Hangar18
12-04-2006, 01:17 PM
Why? Because he's an amazing hitter and defender?


I think his salary situation is going to weigh the SOX down ......

SABRSox
12-04-2006, 01:18 PM
I think his salary situation is going to weigh the SOX down ......

Nah. The numbers all match. And Jerry will add for A-Rod.

RoobarbPie
12-04-2006, 01:21 PM
I had posted this in the Manny thread after the first ARod one was closed. I didn't know if you all saw the winter meeting updates from ESPN or not:

Jayson Stark is reporting that all of these ARod rumors are bull and he's not going anywhere. see link

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2685697

The Immigrant
12-04-2006, 01:22 PM
Why? Because he's an amazing hitter and defender?

Exactly! Plus, we already have Ross Gload, and Aaron Rowand might come back!

Mickster
12-04-2006, 01:27 PM
I had posted this in the Manny thread after the first ARod one was closed. I didn't know if you all saw the winter meeting updates from ESPN or not:

Jayson Stark is reporting that all of these ARod rumors are bull and he's not going anywhere. see link

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2685697

• There were reports out of Chicago today that the White Sox were again looking into trading for Alex Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5275). But according to an official of one team that has inquired about A-Rod's status recently, those reports are just "the same old bull. A-Rod isn't going anwhere."


Hmmm. I'm convinced so long as it is coming from an official of one team that has inquired about A-Rod's status recently. :rolleyes:

Hitmen77
12-04-2006, 01:28 PM
Josh Fields ring a bell?

No, I never heard of him. Thanks for your insightful reply.

I thought the general feeling was that Fields wouldn't be ready to start in the majors until 2008. That's why I wasn't considering him in the equation. I guess I was wrong about that.

In that case, for this rumored deal, one would have to factor in whether he/she thinks the Sox should go with a rookie in the lineup when Anderson still hasn't shown he's past his offensive struggles. Any thoughts on that? I suppose in this scenario Fields would be essentially replacing Uribe's bat in the lineup, so it's not like he's replacing a key part of our offsense.

CHISOXFAN13
12-04-2006, 01:30 PM
No, I never heard of him. Thanks for your helpful reply.

I thought the general feeling was that Fields wouldn't be ready to start in the majors until 2008. That's why I wasn't considering him in the equation. I guess I was wrong about that.

In that case, for this rumored deal, one would have to factor in whether he/she thinks the Sox should go with a rookie in the lineup when Anderson still hasn't shown he's past his struggles. Any thoughts on that? I suppose in this scenario Fields would be essentially replacing Uribe's bat in the lineup, so it's not like he's replacing a key part of our offsense.


Well, considering the landscape of the FA market, I don't think the Sox would have much of a choice at 3B. Let's be honest here. AROD is a huge upgrade over Crede, so you basically hope Fields can field his position well. He can't be much worse than the .267 OBP Uribe gave the Sox last year.

Also...While I thought Crede had an amazing season last year, his OBP at .323 was far worse than AROD's (.392). I'd love to see AROD knock in 121 and hear someone say that's a bad season in Chicago.

samram
12-04-2006, 01:31 PM
Hmmm. I'm convinced so long as it is coming from an official of one team that has inquited about A-Rod's status recently. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's probably a guy from some club the Yankees won't give the time of day to because they have nobody to deal.

itsnotrequired
12-04-2006, 01:33 PM
I think his salary situation is going to weigh the SOX down ......

If NY picks up part of the salary, that cost plus the savings by getting Garcia, Crede and Uribe off the books would cover A-Rod.

whitesoxfan
12-04-2006, 01:35 PM
That is lame. Are they him? :rolleyes: I just hope he does not come to the Sox. I do not care what position he plays.

Haha, are you kidding me? Some of the hate A-Rod gets on here is ridiculous.

Hitmen77
12-04-2006, 01:35 PM
Let's be honest here. AROD is a huge upgrade over Crede, so you basically hope Fields can field his position well. He can't be much worse than the .267 OBP Uribe gave the Sox last year.

Also...While I thought Crede had an amazing season last year, his OBP at .323 was far worse than AROD's (.392). I'd love to see AROD knock in 121 and hear someone say that's a bad season in Chicago.

True. I agree that A-Rod+Fields >> Crede+Uribe. ...At least offensively. I suppose this would be a downgrade defensively at both positions.

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 01:36 PM
That is lame. Are they him? :rolleyes: I just hope he does not come to the Sox. I do not care what position he plays.

yeah...fielding the best team possible is such a bad strategy.

Let's keep grinding away, aka fielding mediocre talent that appears to try real hard (or in Uribe's case doesn't try real hard nor appear to try real hard)

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 01:37 PM
Why? Because he's an amazing hitter and defender?

No, because he's Error-Rod. Get it? It sounds like his nickname sort of, never mind that he's a gold glove SS

1951Campbell
12-04-2006, 01:39 PM
Can A-Rod pitch?

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 01:39 PM
True. I agree that A-Rod+Fields >> Crede+Uribe. ...At least offensively. I suppose this would be a downgrade defensively at both positions.

Certainly a huge downgrade at 3B, but most metrics show A-Rod to be at least Uribe's equal defensively. And if not his equal, such a slight downgrade that the difference would be hard to determine.

CHISOXFAN13
12-04-2006, 01:39 PM
True. I agree that A-Rod+Fields >> Crede+Uribe. ...At least offensively. I suppose this would be a downgrade defensively at both positions.

Most definitely. Uribe is a fantastic shortstop, yet I just don't know if I can stomach his pathetic approach at the plate.

And Crede's back really worries me...

I'd miss Garcia, but obviously, Brandon has his spot etched in stone it looks like. Other than getting Crawford, I don't think KW can make a better deal with this one...

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 01:43 PM
Can A-Rod pitch?

Probably not. Not sure how this relates.

A-Rod would not be in lieu of pitching, since the salary basically cancels out. The question of sending Garcia is a good one, but most people agree that it was time to get McCarthy into the rotation, and it's unlikely any of our starters would except bullpen assignment.

I also think most agreed that Garcia has more or less worn out his welcome given his comments last year about "big games".

But that's just me. I mean, Campbell, it's CLEAR we need to improve our pitching, but that doesn't mean forgoing other deals that address weaknesses of ours last year (i.e. Uribe rotted ass with the bat last year, Crede is likely to regress anyway, and so on)

Hangar18
12-04-2006, 01:44 PM
Why? Because he's an amazing hitter and defender?



:roflmao:

Rocky Soprano
12-04-2006, 01:48 PM
:roflmao:

Yeah 40+ HR, 100+RBI, and a GG at SS is something to laugh at.

:rolleyes:

1951Campbell
12-04-2006, 01:49 PM
Probably not. Not sure how this relates.

A-Rod would not be in lieu of pitching, since the salary basically cancels out. The question of sending Garcia is a good one, but most people agree that it was time to get McCarthy into the rotation, and it's unlikely any of our starters would except bullpen assignment.

I also think most agreed that Garcia has more or less worn out his welcome given his comments last year about "big games".

But that's just me. I mean, Campbell, it's CLEAR we need to improve our pitching, but that doesn't mean forgoing other deals that address weaknesses of ours last year (i.e. Uribe rotted ass with the bat last year, Crede is likely to regress anyway, and so on)

Re-calibrate your glibness detector. :D:

Anyway, he would not be in lieu of pitching? I don't know how much the Sox would be out-of-pocket for A-Rod, but I'd imagine you could indeed get some pitching for such an amount.

I agree that A-Rod is a singular offensive talent, but it's still axiomatic that good pitching beats good hitting. So I figure the Sox should look for good pitching first.

Does KW flip A-Rod for pitching? Might be a good idea.

Mickster
12-04-2006, 01:50 PM
Does KW flip A-Rod for pitching? Might be a good idea.

:?:

Flight #24
12-04-2006, 01:52 PM
Anyway, he would not be in lieu of pitching? I don't know how much the Sox would be out-of-pocket for A-Rod, but I'd imagine you could indeed get some pitching for such an amount.


arod for crede+freddy is salary neytral, so no.

oeo
12-04-2006, 01:54 PM
Re-calibrate your glibness detector. :D:

Anyway, he would not be in lieu of pitching? I don't know how much the Sox would be out-of-pocket for A-Rod, but I'd imagine you could indeed get some pitching for such an amount.

I agree that A-Rod is a singular offensive talent, but it's still axiomatic that good pitching beats good hitting. So I figure the Sox should look for good pitching first.

Does KW flip A-Rod for pitching? Might be a good idea.

The salaries of Crede + Garcia are about equal to what we'd have to pay A-Rod. Salary is not an issue, and besides, that's not even an excuse anymore considering there is no one out there worth signing anymore. The Sox are not going to sign any pitching...if they get any, it will be through trade.

IMO, the Sox need one more left-handed reliever, and I'll be fine with the bullpen. The market sucked this year, hopefully we get lucky. Other than that, we do not need improvements or there are no improvements out there.

Jjav829
12-04-2006, 01:58 PM
Does KW flip A-Rod for pitching? Might be a good idea.

Unless the Twins would trade Johan for Arod (and they wouldn't), no, he wouldn't flip Arod for pitching.

1951Campbell
12-04-2006, 02:00 PM
The salaries of Crede + Garcia are about equal to what we'd have to pay A-Rod. Salary is not an issue, and besides, that's not even an excuse anymore considering there is no one out there worth signing anymore. The Sox are not going to sign any pitching...if they get any, it will be through trade.

IMO, the Sox need one more left-handed reliever, and I'll be fine with the bullpen. The market sucked this year, hopefully we get lucky. Other than that, we do not need improvements or there are no improvements out there.

Well, maybe I'm irrationally worried about the pitching situation. That's a possibility.

CLR01
12-04-2006, 02:02 PM
Yeah, it's probably a guy from some club the Yankees won't give the time of day to because they have nobody to deal.



Voice 1- You got Cash.
Voice 2- Hey Brian, Dayton Moore.
Voice 1- Who?
Voice 2- Dayton Moore, GM of the Royals.
Voice 1- The Royals…when did they get a GM? Anyway, what can I do for you?
Voice 2- Well, I heard Alex Rodriguez might be available and I was hoping we might be able to work someth….
Voice 1- Yeah I’m going to have to get back to you on that I’m on the other line.
Voice 2- Sure thing

Voice 1- Hey Alex, want to go play for the Royals?
Voice 3-
Voice 1- OK

Voice 1- Yeah Dudley, Cash back.
Voice 2- Dayton
Voice 1- Whatever…I hate to tell you but Alex is not available. Whoever told you that was misinformed. Sorry, Cash out.

Reporter 1- There is a rumor the Yankees are shopping Alex Rodriguez. Can you confirm that?
Voice 2- The Yankees are absolutely not shopping Rodriguez. It’s the same old bull. A-Rod isn't going anywhere.

CHISOXFAN13
12-04-2006, 02:06 PM
Voice 1- You got Cash.
Voice 2- Hey Brian, Dayton Moore.
Voice 1- Who?
Voice 2- Dayton Moore, GM of the Royals.
Voice 1- The Royals…when did they get a GM? Anyway, what can I do for you?
Voice 2- Well, I heard Alex Rodriguez might be available and I was hoping we might be able to work someth….
Voice 1- Yeah I’m going to have to get back to you on that I’m on the other line.
Voice 2- Sure thing

Voice 1- Hey Alex, want to go play for the Royals?
Voice 3-
Voice 1- OK

Voice 1- Yeah Dudley, Cash back.
Voice 2- Dayton
Voice 1- Whatever…I hate to tell you but Alex is not available. Whoever told you that was misinformed. Sorry, Cash out.

Reporter 1- There is a rumor the Yankees are shopping Alex Rodriguez. Can you confirm that?
Voice 2- The Yankees are absolutely not shopping Rodriguez. It’s the same old bull. A-Rod isn't going anywhere.

:gulp: :) :supernana:

Luke
12-04-2006, 02:12 PM
Who, or what are the Royals?

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 02:16 PM
Anyway, he would not be in lieu of pitching? I don't know how much the Sox would be out-of-pocket for A-Rod, but I'd imagine you could indeed get some pitching for such an amount.



The only pitching you can get for zero dollars is Jon Rauch. And he might even ask for meal money.

Hence my comment.

Mickster
12-04-2006, 02:17 PM
Voice 1- You got Cash.
Voice 2- Hey Brian, Dayton Moore.
Voice 1- Who?
Voice 2- Dayton Moore, GM of the Royals.
Voice 1- The Royals…I didn't know Kansas City still had a team. Anyway, what can I do for you?
Voice 2- Well, yeah, we got uniforms and everything. Anyway, I heard Alex Rodriguez might be available and I was hoping we might be able to work someth….
Voice 1- Yeah I’m going to have to get back to you on that I’m on the other line.
Voice 2- Sure thing

Voice 1- Hey Alex, want to go play for the Royals?
Voice 3-
Voice 1- OK

Voice 1- Yeah Dudley, Cash back.
Voice 2- Dayton
Voice 1- Whatever…I hate to tell you but Alex is not available. Whoever told you that was misinformed. Sorry, Cash out.

Reporter 1- There is a rumor the Yankees are shopping Alex Rodriguez. Can you confirm that?
Voice 2- The Yankees are absolutely not shopping Rodriguez. It’s the same old bull. A-Rod isn't going anywhere.

Fixed that likely scenario for ya. :wink:

samram
12-04-2006, 02:19 PM
Voice 1- You got Cash.
Voice 2- Hey Brian, Dayton Moore.
Voice 1- Who?
Voice 2- Dayton Moore, GM of the Royals.
Voice 1- The Royals…when did they get a GM? Anyway, what can I do for you?
Voice 2- Well, I heard Alex Rodriguez might be available and I was hoping we might be able to work someth….
Voice 1- Yeah I’m going to have to get back to you on that I’m on the other line.
Voice 2- Sure thing

Voice 1- Hey Alex, want to go play for the Royals?
Voice 3-
Voice 1- OK

Voice 1- Yeah Dudley, Cash back.
Voice 2- Dayton
Voice 1- Whatever…I hate to tell you but Alex is not available. Whoever told you that was misinformed. Sorry, Cash out.

Reporter 1- There is a rumor the Yankees are shopping Alex Rodriguez. Can you confirm that?
Voice 2- The Yankees are absolutely not shopping Rodriguez. It’s the same old bull. A-Rod isn't going anywhere.

:D:

http://www.1115.org/archives/thumbs-up.jpg

Foulke You
12-04-2006, 02:23 PM
True. I agree that A-Rod+Fields >> Crede+Uribe. ...At least offensively. I suppose this would be a downgrade defensively at both positions.
Well, I haven't seen enough of Fields defense to comment one way or another. He did make a couple of dandy plays in '06 as a late season call up. That diving play the last game in Minny sticks out in my mind. Although, he'd have some pretty big shoes to fill with Crede.

A-Rod would be fine at SS but seems to have hit a wall playing out of position at 3B. He had that Chuck Knoblauch deer in the headlights look when it was time to make a throw in '06. His natural position is SS so I think it would be foolish for the Sox to play him out of position. The only reason the Yanks do it is because they have Jeter and one of them had to move to 3B.

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 02:26 PM
Well, I haven't seen enough of Fields defense to comment one way or another. He did make a couple of dandy plays in '06 as a late season call up. That diving play the last game in Minny sticks out in my mind. Although, he'd have some pretty big shoes to fill with Crede.

A-Rod would be fine at SS but seems to have hit a wall playing out of position at 3B. He had that Chuck Knoblauch deer in the headlights look when it was time to make a throw in '06. His natural position is SS so I think it would be foolish for the Sox to play him out of position. The only reason the Yanks do it is because they have Jeter and one of them had to move to 3B.

a.) A-Rod would play SS no question. There's only one team in this country STUPID enough to play a gold glove ss out of position which brings me to

b.) the only reason the Yanks do it is because Jeter's such a team player he feels it's more important to maintain his status as captain than actually let the more capable players play in position. Because if his leadership slips then he can't hit his 37 "intangibles" per year

Tragg
12-04-2006, 02:27 PM
True. I agree that A-Rod+Fields >> Crede+Uribe. ...At least offensively. I suppose this would be a downgrade defensively at both positions.
And we won the WS with pitching and defense.
We downgraded slightly last year in return for hitting and it didn't work.

spiffie
12-04-2006, 02:33 PM
And we won the WS with pitching and defense.
We downgraded slightly last year in return for hitting and it didn't work.
Exactly where did we downgrade? The only change we made was Brian Anderson for Aaron Rowand, which is an upgrade defensively. Otherwise it's the exact same team from 2005.

kravdog
12-04-2006, 02:49 PM
Exactly where did we downgrade? The only change we made was Brian Anderson for Aaron Rowand, which is an upgrade defensively. Otherwise it's the exact same team from 2005.

our bullpen was a downgrade. our starters ERA was +1 from 2k5. thats the downgrade.

spiffie
12-04-2006, 02:52 PM
our bullpen was a downgrade. our starters ERA was +1 from 2k5. thats the downgrade.
Read the original post that prompted my reply. He said we traded hitting for pitching and defense. The bullpen sucked last year because players who were good in 2005 went to hell in 2006. Same with the starting rotation. It had nothing to do with our trying to make the offense better.

Jjav829
12-04-2006, 02:52 PM
our bullpen was a downgrade. our starters ERA was +1 from 2k5. thats the downgrade.

No, our bullpen just performed poorly. We didn't "downgrade" our bullpen. We lost Vizcaino, but he was hardly a key member of our 05 pen. We traded Marte but replaced him with Thornton, a move which turned out to be a significant upgrade.

EMel9281
12-04-2006, 03:27 PM
Once I started reading about the rumors A-Rod to the Sox, I almost felt sick.

But, after reading some compelling arguments, I'm all for it, especially if it spells the end of the Juan Uribe era because I, like many, cannot stand to watch another first-pitch swinging pop up coming from him in Sox uniform.

Crede totally blossomed last year, but it could be a career year for him. Who knows? But, with A-Rod, you can for the most part guarantee what he is going to give you, stats-wise. I don't think anyone expected the kind of year Crede had.

My bottom line is that it's time for Uribe to go. I wouldn't mind Michael Young playing SS either. It's just a matter of time before Kenny does something, so hopefully he'll make the most out of it.

Luke
12-04-2006, 03:42 PM
My bottom line is that it's time for Uribe to go. I wouldn't mind Michael Young playing SS either. It's just a matter of time before Kenny does something, so hopefully he'll make the most out of it.

Young's glove is probably as frustrating as Uribe's plate discipline. Juan can be tough to watch at the plate, but it's still the most likely scenario that he's back at SS next year.

oeo
12-04-2006, 03:47 PM
Young's glove is probably as frustrating as Uribe's plate discipline. Juan can be tough to watch at the plate, but it's still the most likely scenario that he's back at SS next year.

Young recorded a better fielding percentage, in more games, with a better range factor than Uribe.

Luke
12-04-2006, 04:00 PM
Young recorded a better fielding percentage, in more games, with a better range factor than Uribe.

Wow, I was blown away by that. The only defensive stat Uribe scores higher in is ZR. Just by watching the two, I would have said Uribe is notably stronger in the field. The numbers alone certainly say I'm wrong.

infohawk
12-04-2006, 04:12 PM
Here is what I think is the best argument on behalf of acquiring A-Rod. After 2007, the Sox will likely lose Jermaine Dye to free agency. They are unlikely to pony up the significant amount of money to keep him, especially if this insane market is still operative. Keeping Dye would also mean that the Sox might have to do something with one of Sweeney or Owens because they wouldn't have room for both. Both are young, cheap and, at this point, in the Sox future plans. I think the Sox value the payroll savings they are likely to get out of having an outfield consisting of young players.

How do you replace Dye's numbers? Trade for A-Rod, who not only puts up huge offensive numbers, but also solves the shortstop position for several years. The added bonus is that, at least for 2007, the Sox would have a middle of the order consisting of Thome-Konerko-Rodriquez-Dye. After 2007, the Sox would still have a potent 3-4-5 in the order, despite Dye likely signing elsewhere. A-Rod would likley have part of his salary paid by the Yankees, so, along with what the Rangers are paying, the Sox would get a pretty affordable super-star locked into a contract for several years.

Think about it like this. If the Sox lose Dye and don't acquire A-Rod, who at this point will be the third power hitter in the middle of the order? I don't think they have any power threats in the minors at this point, at least none that I know of. I guess they could trade for a prospect who might become the second coming of Travis Hafner, but A-Rod's a proven commodity. I don't see the Sox taking the free agency route -- too expensive.

Some may argue that it's not necessary to have three power hitters. I assent to that point, but if you can add a third power hitter who can also play short, it solves two problems with one move.

Taliesinrk
12-04-2006, 04:13 PM
is there a FOJU, and where do i sign up??? seriously, he may look like a 12-year old in the box, but come on people. you'd rather have fields + arod than Juan and crede?

first, i'll say a push between w/ mr. clutch and mr. april. firstly because of defense (wins championships), and secondly because of their names previously mentioned. <-- may be slightly overexaggerating the point here.. but oh well. second, look at fields' stats from last year. who in the hell thinks he's ready to bat at the major league level? and furthermore, wasn't it his defense they were worried about to begin with anyway?

while the first point had some sarcasm in it, i guess what i'm saying is that i think we undervalue the defense we have on the left side of the INF.. has it been that long since we had royce clayton? or even jose valentin (who could also go for the argument for third basemen too). i just think we could become a better team with a trade giving up joe crede and freddy garcia.

CLR01
12-04-2006, 04:22 PM
is there a FOJU, and where do i sign up??? seriously, he may look like a 12-year old in the box, but come on people. you'd rather have fields + arod than Juan and crede?

first, i'll say a push between w/ mr. clutch over mr. april. firstly because of defense (wins championships), and secondly because of their names previously mentioned. <-- may be slightly overexaggerating the point here.. but oh well. second, look at fields' stats from last year. who in the hell thinks he's ready to bat at the major league level? and furthermore, wasn't it his defense they were worried about to begin with anyway?

while the first point had some sarcasm in it, i guess what i'm saying is that i think we undervalue the defense we have on the left side of the INF.. has it been that long since we had royce clayton? or even jose valentin (who could also go for the argument for third basemen too). i just think we could become a better team with a trade giving up joe crede and freddy garcia.


Did you just compare ARod to The Choice and Jose? :o:

FWIW I don't think Uribe is ready to bat at the major league level either.

Hangar18
12-04-2006, 04:24 PM
Exactly where did we downgrade? The only change we made was Brian Anderson for Aaron Rowand, which is an upgrade defensively. Otherwise it's the exact same team from 2005.


Oh ....... Jim Thome replacing Carl Everett.

NSSoxFan
12-04-2006, 04:28 PM
Oh ....... Jim Thome replacing Carl Everett.

You think this was a downgrade? :?:

spiffie
12-04-2006, 04:32 PM
Oh ....... Jim Thome replacing Carl Everett.
You're right...Jim Thome was the worst defensive DH in the AL last year :?:

CHISOXFAN13
12-04-2006, 04:57 PM
You're right...Jim Thome was the worst defensive DH in the AL last year :?:

ROFLMFAO.

Jaffar
12-04-2006, 05:17 PM
Here is what I think is the best argument on behalf of acquiring A-Rod. After 2007, the Sox will likely lose Jermaine Dye to free agency. They are unlikely to pony up the significant amount of money to keep him, especially if this insane market is still operative. Keeping Dye would also mean that the Sox might have to do something with one of Sweeney or Owens because they wouldn't have room for both. Both are young, cheap and, at this point, in the Sox future plans. I think the Sox value the payroll savings they are likely to get out of having an outfield consisting of young players.

How do you replace Dye's numbers? Trade for A-Rod, who not only puts up huge offensive numbers, but also solves the shortstop position for several years. The added bonus is that, at least for 2007, the Sox would have a middle of the order consisting of Thome-Konerko-Rodriquez-Dye. After 2007, the Sox would still have a potent 3-4-5 in the order, despite Dye likely signing elsewhere. A-Rod would likley have part of his salary paid by the Yankees, so, along with what the Rangers are paying, the Sox would get a pretty affordable super-star locked into a contract for several years.

Think about it like this. If the Sox lose Dye and don't acquire A-Rod, who at this point will be the third power hitter in the middle of the order? I don't think they have any power threats in the minors at this point, at least none that I know of. I guess they could trade for a prospect who might become the second coming of Travis Hafner, but A-Rod's a proven commodity. I don't see the Sox taking the free agency route -- too expensive.

Some may argue that it's not necessary to have three power hitters. I assent to that point, but if you can add a third power hitter who can also play short, it solves two problems with one move.

I'm with you almost 100% on this, the only thing I wanted to change is that AROD is not a power hitter, he is a GREAT hitter WITH Power. I don't know why so many people think Arod is a terrible defensive Shortstop though.

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 05:28 PM
I don't know why so many people think Arod is a terrible defensive Shortstop though.

A lot of people think Carlos was a great ballplayer and Rowand was a great defensive outfielder.

Some people, it seems, do not know baseball as well as others

itsnotrequired
12-04-2006, 05:31 PM
Here is what I think is the best argument on behalf of acquiring A-Rod. After 2007, the Sox will likely lose Jermaine Dye to free agency. They are unlikely to pony up the significant amount of money to keep him, especially if this insane market is still operative. Keeping Dye would also mean that the Sox might have to do something with one of Sweeney or Owens because they wouldn't have room for both. Both are young, cheap and, at this point, in the Sox future plans. I think the Sox value the payroll savings they are likely to get out of having an outfield consisting of young players.

How do you replace Dye's numbers? Trade for A-Rod, who not only puts up huge offensive numbers, but also solves the shortstop position for several years. The added bonus is that, at least for 2007, the Sox would have a middle of the order consisting of Thome-Konerko-Rodriquez-Dye. After 2007, the Sox would still have a potent 3-4-5 in the order, despite Dye likely signing elsewhere. A-Rod would likley have part of his salary paid by the Yankees, so, along with what the Rangers are paying, the Sox would get a pretty affordable super-star locked into a contract for several years.

Think about it like this. If the Sox lose Dye and don't acquire A-Rod, who at this point will be the third power hitter in the middle of the order? I don't think they have any power threats in the minors at this point, at least none that I know of. I guess they could trade for a prospect who might become the second coming of Travis Hafner, but A-Rod's a proven commodity. I don't see the Sox taking the free agency route -- too expensive.

Some may argue that it's not necessary to have three power hitters. I assent to that point, but if you can add a third power hitter who can also play short, it solves two problems with one move.

The 2007 free agent market for outfielders is pretty large. In addition to Dye there is Ichiro, Torri Hunter, Vernon Wells, Bobby Abreu and Adam Dunn as well as some other big-boppers like Mike Sweeney, I-Rod, Michael Young and Carlos Guillen. That's a pretty strong free agent class so the numbers shouldn't be as nuts next year.

kittle42
12-04-2006, 06:42 PM
first, i'll say a push between w/ mr. clutch over mr. april.

OK. I stopped reading after this.

kittle42
12-04-2006, 06:44 PM
A lot of people think Carlos was a great ballplayer and Rowand was a great defensive outfielder.

Some people, it seems, do not know baseball as well as others

They just suffer from an all-too-common syndrome around here...overvaluing the players on your favorite team.

I mean, there really are people who would rather have Joe Crede play for this team than one of the greatest players currently in the game in Rodriguez. Stunning.

Craig Grebeck
12-04-2006, 06:55 PM
Kittle, where have you been all of my life?

And Hangar, shut up about Carl Everett. Bemoaning the loss of a guy who posted an OPS+ of 74 last season just makes you sound like more of an idiot.

Edit-maybe idiot is harsh, but I'm sick of Hangar slamming Thome for no good reason.

Sox Fan 35
12-04-2006, 07:00 PM
Kittle, where have you been all of my life?

And Hangar, shut up about Carl Everett. Bemoaning the loss of a guy who posted an OPS+ of 74 last season just makes you sound like more of an idiot.

Tell us how you really feel.

Does anyone else think A-Rod won't waive his no trade clause.

oeo
12-04-2006, 07:03 PM
Tell us how you really feel.

Does anyone else think A-Rod won't waive his no trade clause.

I think he'd waive it. Why not? It's not as if the Sox are a bad team, they're one of the better one's in the entire league. He gets out of New York, which obviously isn't working for him, to come to Chicago, where he will be on a very good team without all the pressure of New York. The White Sox are a perfect fit.

Taliesinrk
12-04-2006, 07:10 PM
OK. I stopped reading after this.

thats' indeed sad, because had you, you wouldv'e seen that there was a bit of humor in that point.

Taliesinrk
12-04-2006, 07:18 PM
Did you just compare ARod to The Choice and Jose? :o:

FWIW I don't think Uribe is ready to bat at the major league level either.

ok so i'm trying to figure out your "FWIW" point. i've narrowed it down to the following:

1. you really don't think Uribe's ready to hit at the ML level and made a joke about it.

2. you thought i said that Uribe wasn't ready to hit at the ML level (even though i said fields) and were agreeing with me

3. you meant to agree with me and made a mistake typing Uribe, when you meant to type Fields isn't ready to hit at the ML level...

feel free to clarify at anytime..

Brian26
12-04-2006, 07:44 PM
And Hangar, shut up about Carl Everett. Bemoaning the loss of a guy who posted an OPS+ of 74 last season just makes you sound like more of an idiot.


Do not disrespect Carl Everett.

santo=dorf
12-04-2006, 07:47 PM
Young recorded a better fielding percentage, in more games, with a better range factor than Uribe.
....and that's mean just about nothing honestly. Do you even know how range factor is calculated?

Hangar, Jim Thome was the best hitter against RHP last season. Yes that includes Pujols, Howard, A-Rod, Ortiz, Manny, Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Carl Everett, and every other ex-Sox member that you think JR screwed over.

fquaye149
12-04-2006, 07:52 PM
ok so i'm trying to figure out your "FWIW" point. i've narrowed it down to the following:

1. you really don't think Uribe's ready to hit at the ML level and made a joke about it.

2. you thought i said that Uribe wasn't ready to hit at the ML level (even though i said fields) and were agreeing with me

3. you meant to agree with me and made a mistake typing Uribe, when you meant to type Fields isn't ready to hit at the ML level...

feel free to clarify at anytime..

try option #4:

you said Fields isn't ready to hit at the major league level, and CLR, pointing out that Uribe and Fields are analogs in the A-Rod discussion, explains that, as a matter of fact, Uribe is not ready to hit at the MLB level either.

Or basically: as bad as Fields could be next year, there's no way he'll be worse than Uribe's stinkbat

oeo
12-04-2006, 08:01 PM
....and that's mean just about nothing honestly. Do you even know how range factor is calculated?

Yes. My point was that he's not a terrible shortstop, like a lot of people want to believe around here. I was not saying he was better than Uribe defensively, but the poster I responded to said that Young's defense was as bad as Uribe's offense, which is not true.

santo=dorf
12-04-2006, 08:04 PM
Yes. My point was that he's not a terrible shortstop, like a lot of people want to believe around here. I was not saying he was better than Uribe defensively, but the poster I responded to said that Young's defense was as bad as Uribe's offense, which is not true.
...and you're basing that off a stat that means nothing. That makes no sense. He is not a good defensive SS let alone anywhere near Uribe.

getonbckthr
12-04-2006, 08:14 PM
...and you're basing that off a stat that means nothing. That makes no sense. He is not a good defensive SS let alone anywhere near Uribe.
All things considered offense defense and intangibles who would you rather have Juan Uribe or Michael Young?
I say Young.

Jerksticks
12-04-2006, 08:15 PM
Crede is good, Uribe makes everyone want to vomit when he is batting, and Garcia is 100% expendible. Arod on the other hand is just plain dope.
Dope>good>vomit>expendible.
Also dope> good+vomit+expendible.

I have a real question I want opinoins on....

Does Fields create a feeling of excitement for you guys?

He kinda does for me so I would have no problem giving him a shot at playing 162 games next to a GG SS names AROD.

santo=dorf
12-04-2006, 08:21 PM
All things considered offense defense and intangibles who would you rather have Juan Uribe or Michael Young?
I say Young.
Are we factoring in the cost it would take to get Young? If so, I'm going with Uribe.
Young, with the exception of one season, is brutal away from that bandbox in Texas.

getonbckthr
12-04-2006, 08:23 PM
Are we factoring in the cost it would take to get Young? If so, I'm going with Uribe.
Young, with the exception of one season, is brutal away from that bandbox in Texas.
I'm just talking player for player not what his contract would be, not what we have to give up. Just if you were a GM of an expansion team and you needed a SS and they were the 2 guys best available who would you take Uribe or Young?

champagne030
12-04-2006, 08:25 PM
...and you're basing that off a stat that means nothing. That makes no sense. He is not a good defensive SS let alone anywhere near Uribe.

He is a good defensive SS, not Uribe level when Juan is motivated, but still above average. I'll agree that there's no defensive measurable out there that's worth a damn.

santo=dorf
12-04-2006, 08:29 PM
I'm just talking player for player not what his contract would be, not what we have to give up. Just if you were a GM of an expansion team and you needed a SS and they were the 2 guys best available who would you take Uribe or Young?
So like a fantasy baseball draft? I'd take Young then

NardiWasHere
12-04-2006, 08:30 PM
Just if you were a GM of an expansion team and you needed a SS and they were the 2 guys best available who would you take Uribe or Young?

Neifi Perez


You guys think he can be had for Garcia and Crede?


Seriously though, like ON2 said earlier... this deal makes too much sense. Yanks get pitching+a natural 3b and rid themselves of a guy who they (who the hell knows why) dislike.

Sox get back a future HOF'er and rid themselves of Juan ****-ribe..... I lovvvvvvvve hot stove rumors, fiesty!

getonbckthr
12-04-2006, 08:31 PM
So like a fantasy baseball draft? I'd take Young then
I don't mean Fantasy as in offense only defense doesn't exist.

A. Cavatica
12-04-2006, 08:39 PM
I'd rather have Young than A-Rod, because (1) Young addresses our leadoff problem, (2) his contract's way more attractive, and (3) A-Rod hasn't played short for a couple of seasons, and his defensive woes at third may carry over.

I wish I could add (4) Young won't cost as much to obtain, but I really have no idea what the Rangers and Yankees are asking for. The Sox might be tempted to overpay for A-Rod, just to offset his salary. (Crede + Garcia is overpaying, unless we get something else back.)

santo=dorf
12-04-2006, 08:42 PM
How in the World is 1 year of Garcia and two years of Crede overpaying for 3 or 4 years of A-Rod? With the money Texas is throwing in on the deal, A-Rod is a bargain.

getonbckthr
12-04-2006, 08:47 PM
Manny=18 mil, Aram = 15 mil, Soriano = 18, Matthews = 10, Pierre = 9. Where exactly is Arod at 16 (our cost) not affordable?

TheOldRoman
12-04-2006, 08:56 PM
As much as I would like to have A-Rod, it isn't as cut and dry as "he is under contract for 4 more years".
From Cot's Baseball contracts: (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-york-yankees_111398168678860040.html)
he may opt out after 2007 unless he gets an $8M/year raise or $1M more than MLB’s highest-paid player

At that point we would be paying him $24 million a year AFTER the money we get back from NYY/TEX. As I asked last week, if garbage like Carlos Lee is getting $16 million a year. what would a legitimate power hitter make? I think A-Rod could opt out after next year and get a 6 year deal for $150-160 million. I don't think KW would pick him up unless he works out an extention first. And knowing Borass, it would likely be "give us another 10 year contract or you have him for one year."

munchman33
12-04-2006, 09:01 PM
Trading for Arod would totally outweigh all those headlines the flubs have made this offseason. Same can't be said for Young. And don't think Kenny and Jerry haven't noticed all the positive publicity the flubs have had lately.

DickAllen72
12-04-2006, 09:08 PM
As much as I would like to have A-Rod, it isn't as cut and dry as "he is under contract for 4 more years".
From Cot's Baseball contracts: (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-york-yankees_111398168678860040.html)
he may opt out after 2007 unless he gets an $8M/year raise or $1M more than MLB’s highest-paid player


Can anyone clarify if that means he can opt out unless he gets at least an $8million raise or does it mean that as long as he is making at least $1million more than any other player he can not opt out.

In other words, if someone was making say $10million more than him he could opt out unless he got an $8M raise, but if the highest paid MLBer was making $2M more, he would only have to be given a $3M raise to prevent him from opting out.

If the latter is the case, then ARod couldn't opt out because no one is making more per year in 2007 than he is. The Sox would be foolish not to make the proposed trade if it were on the table.

If the former is the case, and with Boras as his agent, I wouldn't go near him with a ten foot pole.

hi im skot
12-04-2006, 09:11 PM
Trading for Arod would totally outweigh all those headlines the flubs have made this offseason. Same can't be said for Young. And don't think Kenny and Jerry haven't noticed all the positive publicity the flubs have had lately.

You honestly think Kenny gives a **** what the Cubs are doing?

I sure don't.

champagne030
12-04-2006, 09:15 PM
Can anyone clarify if that means he can opt out unless he gets at least an $8million raise or does it mean that as long as he is making at least $1million more than any other player he can not opt out.

In other words, if someone was making say $10million more than him he could opt out unless he got an $8M raise, but if the highest paid MLBer was making $2M more, he would only have to be given a $3M raise to prevent him from opting out.

If the latter is the case, then ARod couldn't opt out because no one is making more per year in 2007 than he is. The Sox would be foolish not to make the proposed trade if it were on the table.

If the former is the case, and with Boras as his agent, I wouldn't go near him with a ten foot pole.

I don't know for sure, but reading the link, it looks like he can opt out unless he gets an $8M/year raise OR makes more than $1M more than the highest paid player. That seems like he wouldn't be able to do squat because he's still the highest paid player.

DickAllen72
12-04-2006, 09:24 PM
I don't know for sure, but reading the link, it looks like he can opt out unless he gets an $8M/year raise OR makes more than $1M more than the highest paid player. That seems like he wouldn't be able to do squat because he's still the highest paid player.

That's how I read it too. If that is indeed the case, and KW can get him for Crede/Garcia, do it!

TheOldRoman
12-04-2006, 09:27 PM
That's how I read it too. If that is indeed the case, and KW can get him for Crede/Garcia, do it!
I found this on MLB4U.com (http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=991)

he can void the deal again after the 2008 or 2009 seasons, but only if someone in the major leagues has a higher salary than him - he has a guaranteed salary increase for 2009 and 2010 by the higher of the following: 5M or 1M greater than average annual value of the position player w/ highest annual average salary

That makes him a little pricier.

Jerksticks
12-04-2006, 09:40 PM
You honestly think Kenny gives a **** what the Cubs are doing?

I sure don't.

I couldn't disagree more. Yea it's real easy to say you don't care what the Cubs are doing- but I think that's bull****. Like it's noble or something to say that all the noise they make doesn't bother you. Yea I know our team is better too, heck we all know we are gonna have a better 2007 than they are. But it still annoys most of us who grew up Sox fans to have people talking more about the Cubs. We were turning the tide of the city, but a little wind left our sails with the Soriano signing this offseason. I think KW and JR deeply care about one-upping the Cubs because they have pride in the SouthSide the same way the loyal fans do. You can't help it. AROD would be dope for 2 reasons:

*It improves our team no doubt (most important):D:

*Can't help but feel it would walk all over the Soriano signing:tongue:

Frater Perdurabo
12-04-2006, 10:06 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Yea it's real easy to say you don't care what the Cubs are doing- but I think that's bull****. Like it's noble or something to say that all the noise they make doesn't bother you. Yea I know our team is better too, heck we all know we are gonna have a better 2007 than they are. But it still annoys most of us who grew up Sox fans to have people talking more about the Cubs. We were turning the tide of the city, but a little wind left our sails with the Soriano signing this offseason. I think KW and JR deeply care about one-upping the Cubs because they have pride in the SouthSide the same way the loyal fans do. You can't help it.

Our team won a World Series 14 months ago. I do not care about the Cubs or how much money they waste signing designated hitters or how much their own house organ newspaper hypes them. If the Sox get A-Rod, it will be a great move because it would improve the offense and the defense (IMHO the defensive upgrade to A-Rod from Uribe would offset the downgrade from Crede to Fields). Any increase in media attention would be tertiary.

KW knows that championships are won on the field, not in PR offices and newsrooms.

SluggersAway
12-04-2006, 10:21 PM
Of course Kenny and Jerry care about what the Cubs are doing. It is a business, the games are the product and the team on the North side are in direct competition for seats in the stands. Die hards will not waiver in their allegiance, but they are not the majority.

Yes, you can talk about how your only concern is with winning championships and the media and press rooms should be ignored but that denies the important economic aspects of the business and the reality in a two MLB team city.

When the Mets were on top you bet the Yankees were thinking about them and vice versa.

buehrle4cy05
12-04-2006, 10:22 PM
When the Mets were on top you bet the Yankees were thinking about them and vice versa.

Speaking of the Mets, this from www.mlb.com:

The Mets may be more inclined to trade rather than pursue a free agent. A starting pitcher is high on the club's list of needs and Javier Vazquez's name has come up repeatedly as an individual high on GM Omar Minaya's list. Minaya has also talked to the White Sox about Mark Buehrle and is believed to have discussed the possibility of trading outfielder Lastings Milledge to Chicago for the left-hander.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061204&content_id=1750133&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

TheOldRoman
12-04-2006, 10:40 PM
Speaking of the Mets, this from www.mlb.com: (http://www.mlb.com:)



http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061204&content_id=1750133&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp
I don't doubt for a second that KW and Minaya "talked" about Buehrle for Miledge.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/187569.jpg
"Hey Kenny. how 'bout you give me Mark Buehrle for Lastings Milledge?"

:KW
"Hey, Omar, ho 'bout NO."

guillen4life13
12-04-2006, 10:44 PM
I don't doubt for a second that KW and Minaya "talked" about Buehrle for Miledge.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/187569.jpg
"Hey Kenny. how 'bout you give me Mark Buehrle for Lastings Milledge?"

:KW
"Hey, Omar, ho 'bout NO."
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/187569.jpg
But we want Sosa in Milledge's spot! How bout you just take Milledge?

champagne030
12-04-2006, 10:45 PM
I found this on MLB4U.com (http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=991)

Quote:
he can void the deal again after the 2008 or 2009 seasons, but only if someone in the major leagues has a higher salary than him - he has a guaranteed salary increase for 2009 and 2010 by the higher of the following: 5M or 1M greater than average annual value of the position player w/ highest annual average salary


That makes him a little pricier.

Won't he still be the highest paid player in the league (including the average annual value...)?

JB98
12-04-2006, 11:25 PM
I don't doubt for a second that KW and Minaya "talked" about Buehrle for Miledge.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/187569.jpg
"Hey Kenny. how 'bout you give me Mark Buehrle for Lastings Milledge?"

:KW
"Hey, Omar, ho 'bout NO."

Bingo. Given the amount of money free-agent pitchers are commanding, don't you think Mark Buerhle is worth more than just an unproven prospect in a trade? I certainly do, and since KW is dealing from a position of strength, I imagine he does as well.

Hitmen77
12-04-2006, 11:55 PM
Trading for Arod would totally outweigh all those headlines the flubs have made this offseason. Same can't be said for Young. And don't think Kenny and Jerry haven't noticed all the positive publicity the flubs have had lately.

Good Grief, I sure hope KW using this logic as the reason for his trades. :o:

Iguana775
12-04-2006, 11:58 PM
Josh Fields ring a bell?


No, but i heard he can swing a bat. :)

Jaffar
12-05-2006, 10:44 AM
This is getting the most talk right now since apparently KW and Cashman had a 1am meeting in the White Sox Suite about Arod.

Jjav829
12-05-2006, 10:49 AM
This is getting the most talk right now since apparently KW and Cashman had a 1am meeting in the White Sox Suite about Arod.

And you heard this where?

Dick Allen
12-05-2006, 10:51 AM
And you heard this where?It was on WMVP this morning. Bruce Levine, take that for what it's worth.

Jaffar
12-05-2006, 10:59 AM
They haven't stopped talking about it on ESPN 1000. But like DA said, it was reported by Bruce Levine soooo yeah.

White Sox Randy
12-05-2006, 11:00 AM
We needed a second huge thread so that people would finally realize that AROD is NOT being traded to the White Sox ?

SoxxoS
12-05-2006, 11:01 AM
We needed a second huge thread so that people would finally realize that AROD is NOT being traded to the White Sox ?

What else do you want to talk about? ITS THE OFFSEASON.

spiffie
12-05-2006, 11:04 AM
We needed a second huge thread so that people would finally realize that AROD is NOT being traded to the White Sox ?
Sox Clubhouse (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=5) - An area of WSI where no one is posting any obnoxious rumors about Rodriguez, Ramirez, Wells, or anyone else. I think you'll find it quite to your liking.

Taliesinrk
12-05-2006, 11:19 AM
They haven't stopped talking about it on ESPN 1000. But like DA said, it was reported by Bruce Levine soooo yeah.

oh really? awesome... so it's pretty much a done deal eh? what'd brucey say the Yanks were asking for? what? oh, well that's ****ing great. we'll give up fields and cintron for Arod...

Bruce Levine is a ****ing idiot

Mickster
12-05-2006, 11:37 AM
We needed a second huge thread so that people would finally realize that AROD is NOT being traded to the White Sox ?

You are right! I would much rather hear your plethora of brilliant trade suggestions instead. :rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
12-05-2006, 11:50 AM
You are right! I would much rather hear your plethora of brilliant trade suggestions instead. :rolleyes:http://www.manuelbieh.de/kram/blog_highfive.jpg