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bigredrudy
12-03-2006, 03:49 PM
Now that Pods is back we can look forward to having Rob M. back as our backup center fielder. If we keep the same bench as last year there really is not an alternative. We should have 11 pitchers and nine starters. So that makes 20 leaving a bench of 5 players. One would be a catcher and Rob M.,Alex C.,Pablo Osuna and Ross gload being the other 4. That is the roster. I don't know that Ross Gload or pablo O are luxuries that we can afford. Like almost all Sox fans I do not want to go through the defense we had when Rob was in center field. What are your thoughts?

veeter
12-03-2006, 03:55 PM
I would love the Sox to get rid of Rob, actually. He's a horrible outfielder and with Gload and Cintron, we have lefties. Let's just say, it didn't work out.

TheOldRoman
12-03-2006, 04:06 PM
I am with you. I can't believe Kenny W. has gone 4 weeks into the offseason without making several trades and signing top free agents. I mean, the offseason is already 1/4 over with. I think the season is already over with, they shouldn't bother playing. If we are coming back with Rob M, Alex C, Paul K, Brian A, or Tadahito I, this team won't be good enough to compete. The only question is whether or not we can hold off the upstart Royals for 4th place. Anyone want my season tickets?







And before people jump on me, the above statements are so ridiculous that teal would only lessen them.

jabrch
12-03-2006, 04:26 PM
It's just barely December. There will be lots of changes between now and opening day. Crying about the bench at this point is a silly exercise.

Frater Perdurabo
12-03-2006, 04:40 PM
I think Mackowiak is a fine utility player valuable for his left-handed bat and for his ability to play numerous positions. I just hope he plays fewer than ten games in CF in 2007. Give him 10 starts in CF, 20 in LF, 10 at 3B and 10 in RF (give Dye five games off and five starts at DH). That's 50 starts, more than enough for a utility player. He should never be used as a late-inning defensive replacement at 3B or in CF other than in an injury situation.

Do something similar with Gload: 15 starts at 1B (Give PK 10 games off and 5 games at DH), 10 in LF and plenty of work as a late-inning defensive replacement at 1B. (FWIW, that gives Thome 10 games off, considering it's likely he'll miss two or three stretches of two to three games each, plus he will get some rest when the Sox play in NL parks.)

This lets Cintron focus on backing up 2B and SS (20 starts at each postion seems about right), and allows the Sox to keep Ozuna strictly as a pinch hitter and runner, since he's really quite poor with the glove.

lakeviewsoxfan
12-03-2006, 04:42 PM
I think Mackowiak is a fine utility player valuable for his left-handed bat and for his ability to play numerous positions. I just hope he plays fewer than ten games in CF in 2007. Give him 10 starts in CF, 20 in LF, 10 at 3B and 10 in RF (give Dye five games off and five starts at DH). That's 50 starts, more than enough for a utility player. He should never be used as a late-inning defensive replacement at 3B or in CF other than in an injury situation.

Do something similar with Gload: 15 starts at 1B (Give PK 10 games off and 5 games at DH), 10 in LF and plenty of work as a late-inning defensive replacement at 1B. (FWIW, that gives Thome 10 games off, considering it's likely he'll miss two or three stretches of two to three games each, plus he will get some rest when the Sox play in NL parks.)

This lets Cintron focus on backing up 2B and SS (20 starts at each postion seems about right), and allows the Sox to keep Ozuna strictly as a pinch hitter and runner, since he's really quite poor with the glove.

He should NEVER play in CF he is not a CF. Ozzies mismanagement of CF might have cost us a spot in last years playoffs. He should NEVER play CF.:angry:

Frater Perdurabo
12-03-2006, 04:59 PM
He should NEVER play in CF he is not a CF. Ozzies mismanagement of CF might have cost us a spot in last years playoffs. He should NEVER play CF.:angry:

I agree, and last summer I started several threads and made hundreds of posts about Mackowiak NOT being a very good CF.

There's no way any player should be "expected" to start 162 games. But what are the alternatives to Anderson currently on the roster? Gload? No. Ozuna? Nope. Consequently, Mackowiak might be the very distantly but still second-best option behind Anderson. The other option would be to use Pods as the backup CF (since at least he has more experience playing the outfield) for 10 games or so and have Mackowiak play LF in those situations. I also advise that the games in which Anderson rests be games in parks with small gaps: Wrigley, Philly, Pittsburgh and/or the Cell.

kevin57
12-03-2006, 05:03 PM
The other option would be to use Pods as the backup CF (since at least he has more experience playing the outfield) for 10 games or so.

The only thing more frightening than Mac playing CF is Pods!

HomeFish
12-03-2006, 05:42 PM
Mack is our best all-around offensive player on the bench, in my opinion. I'd be sad to see him go.

There's a difference between cutting somebody and merely prohibiting them from playing CF.

oeo
12-03-2006, 06:46 PM
Ross Gload and Pablo Ozuna are the most expendable guys on the bench (IMO). Gload, especially, since he can only play 1B, and although Pablo had a great year last year and he can add a spark sometimes, I'd much rather keep Mackowiak over him. Mackowiak can play the corners of the outfield and infield, as well as put up some pretty good offensive numbers. I think I'd rather have him on the basepaths, as well. Although he's not the fastest guy, he doesn't make dumbass decisions like Pablo, and actually made some pretty good moves on the basepaths in 2006.

Frater Perdurabo
12-03-2006, 07:15 PM
The only thing more frightening than Mac playing CF is Pods!

I know it's a matter of the lesser of two evils. So what do you do? Put Dye in CF when Anderson needs a rest? (Maybe that's not the worst idea in the world...)

Lip Man 1
12-03-2006, 07:15 PM
Mack is a significant long ball threat off the bench and he's a competent corner outfielder. He has no business playing center but part of that blame goes to Kenny who didn't leave Ozzie with any choices after the past off season.

Lip

ondafarm
12-03-2006, 07:43 PM
In Miller Park, Pods was an acceptable center fielder. I'd rather have Mack in left and Pods in center when BA needs a day off.

Frater Perdurabo
12-03-2006, 07:52 PM
In Miller Park, Pods was an acceptable center fielder. I'd rather have Mack in left and Pods in center when BA needs a day off.

Me too. Pods is a decided step down from Anderson defensively (or two or three steps), but that's because Anderson simply is so excellent.

CaptainBallz
12-03-2006, 07:54 PM
Mack is a significant long ball threat off the bench and he's a competent corner outfielder. He has no business playing center but part of that blame goes to Kenny who didn't leave Ozzie with any choices after the past off season.

Lip

Ozzie did have the option of NOT starting Mack in CF so ridiculously often. It was flat out absurd by the end of the season.

Corlose 15
12-03-2006, 07:55 PM
Anyone think Luis Terrero has a shot at making the team as the primary CF backup?

lakeviewsoxfan
12-03-2006, 08:36 PM
No. We will have the same bench as last year without a RH hitting 4th OF, unless something happens. Ozuna however was not offered arbitration so who knows.

TheVulture
12-03-2006, 09:43 PM
Anyone think Luis Terrero has a shot at making the team as the primary CF backup?
I personally think it is very likely. The guy has incredible tools - great speed and cannon arm.

DickAllen72
12-03-2006, 09:44 PM
Anyone think Luis Terrero has a shot at making the team as the primary CF backup?

Yes. He may even be the starting CF if things don't change this offseason.

XplodingScorbord
12-03-2006, 09:47 PM
I think Mackowiak is a fine utility player valuable for his left-handed bat and for his ability to play numerous positions. I just hope he plays fewer than ten games in CF in 2007. Give him 10 starts in CF, 20 in LF, 10 at 3B and 10 in RF (give Dye five games off and five starts at DH). That's 50 starts, more than enough for a utility player. He should never be used as a late-inning defensive replacement at 3B or in CF other than in an injury situation.

Do something similar with Gload: 15 starts at 1B (Give PK 10 games off and 5 games at DH), 10 in LF and plenty of work as a late-inning defensive replacement at 1B. (FWIW, that gives Thome 10 games off, considering it's likely he'll miss two or three stretches of two to three games each, plus he will get some rest when the Sox play in NL parks.)

This lets Cintron focus on backing up 2B and SS (20 starts at each postion seems about right), and allows the Sox to keep Ozuna strictly as a pinch hitter and runner, since he's really quite poor with the glove.

No need to be so reasonable about it. :tongue:

soxinem1
12-03-2006, 09:52 PM
The only thing more frightening than Mac playing CF is Pods!

I'm not too sure about that. Other than his arm, he seemed pretty comfortable in CF in Milwaukee. Even in 2005 he seemed to get awkward reads too often in LF. he just seems more natural in CF.

Like some posters mentioned, Mackowiak in LF and Pods in CF would be better when BA is getting a game off.

I don't know what Ozzie was thinking this season. He let the press dictate the line up. The press wasn't satisfied with leading the league in HR's and runs, they had to have a CF hitting like Mickey Mantle. So Ozzie, the 'defensive-minded' manager, caved in.

We cannot blame Mackowiak, it was well known he was regarded as below-average in CF when he was in PIT. The Pirates were starving for a CF for years and already knew he wasn't the answer.

ondafarm
12-03-2006, 11:04 PM
We cannot blame Mackowiak, it was well known he was regarded as below-average in CF when he was in PIT. The Pirates were starving for a CF for years and already knew he wasn't the answer.

I don't blame any player for doing his best. Some guys aren't suited to particular positions, remember Fisk going to LF?. If a player is in a position he can't handle well, and he continues to be put there in place of alternatives, I blame the manager. I don't recall seeing Mack dog any game, even when he was clearly outclassed in the field.

Jjav829
12-03-2006, 11:12 PM
I am with you. I can't believe Kenny W. has gone 4 weeks into the offseason without making several trades and signing top free agents. I mean, the offseason is already 1/4 over with. I think the season is already over with, they shouldn't bother playing. If we are coming back with Rob M, Alex C, Paul K, Brian A, or Tadahito I, this team won't be good enough to compete. The only question is whether or not we can hold off the upstart Royals for 4th place. Anyone want my season tickets?







And before people jump on me, the above statements are so ridiculous that teal would only lessen them.

:?:

The guy brought up a good point. No need to jump on him for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mackowiak is moved. Like the original poster said, we're talking about 5 bench spots. One will be the backup catcher, leaving 4. Ozuna seems like a lock to stick around. The only problem with keeping Ozuna is that leaves us without a true backup at short. So we would need to hold onto Cintron. It seems likely that Gload returns, so that leaves only Mackowiak's spot to find a backup in center.

I think everyone would agree that we definitely need a backup centerfielder in case Anderson struggles again. Whether that is in the form of someone on the 25-man roster or someone in the minors who the Sox have confidence, we just need a backup plan not named Mackowiak. Personally, I would like to see the Sox open up the job for competition in spring training. But if they do want to just hand Anderson the job, they definitely need to find a real backup this year.

TheOldRoman
12-03-2006, 11:32 PM
:?:

The guy brought up a good point. No need to jump on him for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mackowiak is moved. Like the original poster said, we're talking about 5 bench spots. One will be the backup catcher, leaving 4. Ozuna seems like a lock to stick around. The only problem with keeping Ozuna is that leaves us without a true backup at short. So we would need to hold onto Cintron. It seems likely that Gload returns, so that leaves only Mackowiak's spot to find a backup in center.

I think everyone would agree that we definitely need a backup centerfielder in case Anderson struggles again. Whether that is in the form of someone on the 25-man roster or someone in the minors who the Sox have confidence, we just need a backup plan not named Mackowiak. Personally, I would like to see the Sox open up the job for competition in spring training. But if they do want to just hand Anderson the job, they definitely need to find a real backup this year.
I just reread his post, and I may have misinterpreted it wrong the first time. I thought he was crying about Rob being there. I don't think this by any means assures us that Rob is our backup CF. There is a lot of offseason left. I think the Sox will make at least one significant move on their bench. KW learns from his mistakes. Ross Gload was in Charlotte for much of 05, and we were hurt a few times when we had no real backup at 1B. He kept Gload on the roster in 06. Backup CF was our huge problem in 06. KW will get one. I don't see them moving Rob because his bat is so good. That would leave Ozuna as the odd man out. I think Kenny will look for a speedy CF to take his place.

jenn2080
12-04-2006, 07:19 AM
I would love the Sox to get rid of Rob, actually. He's a horrible outfielder and with Gload and Cintron, we have lefties. Let's just say, it didn't work out.


I am DEFINITELY not Rob's biggest fan, however I would no trade him so quickly. He was a great off the bench in late innings he was just not an outfielder. I do not think it was so much his fault out there as it was Ozzie's. I am sure he did not enjoy fly balls going over his head every game.

Jurr
12-04-2006, 07:41 AM
You can't platoon Sweeney and Anderson in center? No?

the gooch
12-04-2006, 08:41 AM
:?:

The guy brought up a good point. No need to jump on him for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mackowiak is moved. Like the original poster said, we're talking about 5 bench spots. One will be the backup catcher, leaving 4. Ozuna seems like a lock to stick around. The only problem with keeping Ozuna is that leaves us without a true backup at short. So we would need to hold onto Cintron. It seems likely that Gload returns, so that leaves only Mackowiak's spot to find a backup in center.

I think everyone would agree that we definitely need a backup centerfielder in case Anderson struggles again. Whether that is in the form of someone on the 25-man roster or someone in the minors who the Sox have confidence, we just need a backup plan not named Mackowiak. Personally, I would like to see the Sox open up the job for competition in spring training. But if they do want to just hand Anderson the job, they definitely need to find a real backup this year.
What is wrong with Ozuna playing Short? I thought he was acceptable in that position.

We have Thome, AJ, and Pods (at least for now) batting left in our everyday lineup. Mackowiak and Gload both bat from the left side and are similar hitters. Cintron is a switch hitter. We don't need that many lefties. All it will do is make Ozzie screw with the lineup that much more.

I say, with Crede's health becomming a ? and the lack of infield depth in our minor leagues, Ozuna and Cintron need to stay. Mack or Gload should go, with the remaining spots for a catcher (Stewart) and a 4th outfielder (Terrero, maybe). If one of our 1st basemen/sluggers get injured, our first option to come up could be Rogowski (lefty) who can and has played 1st and left field.

champagne030
12-04-2006, 09:42 AM
You can't platoon Sweeney and Anderson in center? No?

No.

1.) The Sox are not going to bring Sweeney up to Platoon. He needs as many AB's as he can get. He'll start for the Sox or Charlotte.

2.) Sweeney isn't really a good CF....Not Mack bad, but probaby serviceable would best describe him in CF.

3.) I REALLY hope that Anderson performs well enough to win the CF job and KW finds a legit 4th OF, who can play CF.

JB98
12-04-2006, 11:26 AM
Anyone think Luis Terrero has a shot at making the team as the primary CF backup?

Absolutely. And I'll go even further: Terrero will have a chance to compete for the starting job in CF. If the Sox weren't going to give him that chance, why sign him?

Lip Man 1
12-04-2006, 12:14 PM
Captain:

Despite what you or I think Ozzie felt that BA wasn't doing the job to his satisfaction and turned to an out of position Mack.

That's a totally different issue from the off season one.

Lip

Fake Chet Lemon
12-04-2006, 12:55 PM
Why not grab Kenny Lofton for a year? Then try to get Ichiro next off-season as a FA if Anderson or Sweeney aren't ready.

maurice
12-04-2006, 03:23 PM
Last year, I advocated a righthanded OF who can play CF ahead of Gload. Gload > Mackowiak offensively, so if they want to keep Gload for his bat, then a righthanded OF who can play CF is better than Mack in '07. There doesn't appear to be enough roster space for all 3, especially if they plan on platooning Pods and Ozuna in LF again.

champagne030
12-04-2006, 03:48 PM
Last year, I advocated a righthanded OF who can play CF ahead of Gload. Gload > Mackowiak offensively, so if they want to keep Gload for his bat, then a righthanded OF who can play CF is better than Mack in '07. There doesn't appear to be enough roster space for all 3, especially if they plan on platooning Pods and Ozuna in LF again.

:o:

I pray to God just say no!

maurice
12-04-2006, 04:11 PM
''What this signing says is I support [Pods] as our leadoff hitter and primary left fielder,'' Williams said.

Linky (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/157378,CST-SPT-sox02.article)

The way I read this is, unless things change pretty drastically, Pods and Ozuna are gonna lead off and play LF again in '07.

champagne030
12-04-2006, 04:19 PM
Linky (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/157378,CST-SPT-sox02.article)

The way I read this is, unless things change pretty drastically, Pods and Ozuna are gonna lead off and play LF again in '07.

:(: :o: :angry: :mad: :help: :kukoo: :nuts: :puking: <Insert incredibly overused chunks tag>

CaptainBallz
12-04-2006, 09:11 PM
Captain:

Despite what you or I think Ozzie felt that BA wasn't doing the job to his satisfaction and turned to an out of position Mack.

That's a totally different issue from the off season one.

Lip

The team was left thin in the backup CF position before the 2006 season. That we all know. It's just hard to not beat that dead horse over and over and over again since Ozzie's actions at the all important home stretch of the season lacked any observable logic and were flat out detrimental to the team's success.

I'm a proud supporter of Mack and think that Ozzie was ruining his good name by trotting him out into center 3 times a week. I was just addressing the "choices" that Ozzie had, with the fact that they were far too thin in CF being a given.