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View Full Version : Report: Cubs offer Lilly 4-year deal


buehrle4cy05
12-02-2006, 12:49 AM
Per Rotoworld.com

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB

Anybody willing to take a stab at it's value? I say $40 million.

MrX
12-02-2006, 12:59 AM
They were looking 4 years, 40 million and judging by the agents comments in the cubune that they may be able to get more than that I have to think it's pretty close to 40 million.

getonbckthr
12-02-2006, 01:06 AM
I don't care what anyone says about the Cubs they are doing what they should, spending money they have to build the best team possible.

StillMissOzzie
12-02-2006, 03:36 AM
They were looking 4 years, 40 million and judging by the agents comments in the cubune that they may be able to get more than that I have to think it's pretty close to 40 million.

Simply amazing if these figs are true. $10M/year for a lifetime 59-58, 4.60 ERA pitcher.

Once again, Bill Veeck was right about the high price of mediocrity.

SMO
:rolleyes:

DaleJRFan
12-02-2006, 05:06 AM
Ted Lilly sucks. He's a flyball pitcher and is going to throw BP in Wrigley... Cubs fans will cry Victory if they sign him... and by July 1st, they'll all want Ted and his 5.00 ERA run out of town.

Have fun with this one Flubbie fans.

The Critic
12-02-2006, 06:32 AM
To try to be as fair as possible, the Cubs are in a tough spot.
Their "Win Right Now" declarations have led them to this signing frenzy, and it can't stop without acquiring pitching.
They'd like to try to sign FA pitchers shorter deals if they could, to see if their younger arms like Marshall, Guzman and a couple others pan out, but the market is demanding longer deals.
If they don't sign any pitching, they'd have to bank on guys like Carlos Marmol and the ever-injured Mark Prior again this year.
They're going to get burned on at least one pitcher they sign this year, I think, but I believe they have to sign someone. Otherwise, at least outwardly, it looks like all the moves they made haven't addressed their main need.

dickallen15
12-02-2006, 06:53 AM
Simply amazing if these figs are true. $10M/year for a lifetime 59-58, 4.60 ERA pitcher.

Once again, Bill Veeck was right about the high price of mediocrity.

SMO
:rolleyes:
There is precedence. See Vazquez, Javier.

FarWestChicago
12-02-2006, 07:28 AM
I don't care what anyone says about the CubsI don't see why anyone cares about the Flubs. :rolleyes:

RKMeibalane
12-02-2006, 11:35 AM
I don't see why anyone cares about the Flubs. :rolleyes:

I don't either. Perhaps Henry would care to enlighten us. :cool:

ondafarm
12-02-2006, 11:41 AM
More power to Mr. Lilly. Hope he signs for a pile of money. I don't know if he is worth it, but that's not his problem.

RKMeibalane
12-02-2006, 11:43 AM
More power to Mr. Lilly. Hope he signs for a pile of money. I don't know if he is worth it, but that's not his problem.

Agreed. He's had a good career, and should take this chance to cash in. The Cubs are idiots for overpaying to sign a number three or four starter, but I don't think anyone is surprised.

Mickster
12-02-2006, 12:52 PM
Agreed. He's had a good career, and should take this chance to cash in. The Cubs are idiots for overpaying to sign a number three or four starter, but I don't think anyone is surprised.

Lilly would probably be a #2 on most teams in the NL. His 4.6 AL ERA would roughly translate to a 3.5 in the NL (See Arroyo, Bronson). Still, $10M is a bit too steep, IMHO.

GoSox2K3
12-02-2006, 11:40 PM
I don't care what anyone says about the Cubs they are doing what they should, spending money they have to build the best team possible.

It's still legitimate to question the approach the Cubs are taking. They've sunk over $200 million so far this offseason and still haven't landed any pitching. Why is this necessarily building "the best team possible" instead of using their spending spree to fill more holes with less splashy, less expensive signings like the Sox did before '05. Is throwing $12 million at an Alex Cintron-level player (DeRosa) necessarily "doing what they should"?

The jury's still out. We can't really begin to judge any of the 30 MLB teams until all the offseaon acquistions are complete. Of course, the final say will be how the '07 season plays out.

jabrch
12-02-2006, 11:53 PM
It's still legitimate to question the approach the Cubs are taking. They've sunk over $200 million so far this offseason and still haven't landed any pitching. Why is this necessarily building "the best team possible" instead of using their spending spree to fill more holes with less splashy, less expensive signings like the Sox did before '05. Is throwing $12 million at an Alex Cintron-level player (DeRosa) necessarily "doing what they should"?

The jury's still out. We can't really begin to judge any of the 30 MLB teams until all the offseaon acquistions are complete. Of course, the final say will be how the '07 season plays out.

It is misleading to say they spent 200mm. They didn't. They committed to that spending over time, but Derose is only making 4mm and Soriano is only making 17mm.

The Tribune makes loads of money off the Cubs. It's about time they do the right thing for their fans and spend it.

GoSox2K3
12-03-2006, 09:33 AM
It is misleading to say they spent 200mm. They didn't. They committed to that spending over time, but Derose is only making 4mm and Soriano is only making 17mm.

The Tribune makes loads of money off the Cubs. It's about time they do the right thing for their fans and spend it.

fine, they're spending 200 million over time ... or 200 million of the next Cubs owners, whatever....we all know that already.

Like I said, it's still legitimate to question whether the Cubs current approach makes the most sense. Nothing you have said changes what I said in my post. Yes, they have alot of money, it's about time they spent more money, etc., etc...... but their payroll at some point is finite - so the question is: Is signing someone like Soriano going to keep them from signing someone like Zito....or keep them from signing 2 starting pitchers instead of 1.

I know some of you guys have already handed the Cubs the NL Central crown, but I'll hold of judgement until I see all of MLB's offseason transactions and how the 2007 plays out. Right now, the jury is still out.

Gavin
12-03-2006, 12:33 PM
Solid signing for the Cubs. They are at least getting things done.

Oh and.. this whole "See Lastname, Firstname" is fairly pretentious. Give it a rest.

Palehose13
12-03-2006, 01:15 PM
Solid signing for the Cubs. They are at least getting things done.

Oh and.. this whole "See Lastname, Firstname" is fairly pretentious. Give it a rest.

I disagree here and with your signature.

WizardsofOzzie
12-03-2006, 02:20 PM
Solid signing for the Cubs. They are at least getting things done.

Oh and.. this whole "See Lastname, Firstname" is fairly pretentious. Give it a rest.
Is it official yet? I thought it was just an offer on the table

tstrike2000
12-03-2006, 02:34 PM
Lilly would probably be a #2 on most teams in the NL. His 4.6 AL ERA would roughly translate to a 3.5 in the NL (See Arroyo, Bronson). Still, $10M is a bit too steep, IMHO.

Over a run less per 9 innings? I don't see that happening pitching in Wrigley. Unless he develops more of a ground ball style of pitching I see quite of few pitches going into that basket at the Urinal with a nice breeze blowing out towards Waveland.

jabrch
12-03-2006, 04:43 PM
I know some of you guys have already handed the Cubs the NL Central crown, but I'll hold of judgement until I see all of MLB's offseason transactions and how the 2007 plays out. Right now, the jury is still out.

Kiss my behind. Who is handing them anything? They made a few decent moves, and we are giving credit where credit is due. They are a long way away from winning anything. But you can't say they haven't improved their team with the moves they have made so far.

jabrch
12-03-2006, 04:47 PM
Lilly would probably be a #2 on most teams in the NL. His 4.6 AL ERA would roughly translate to a 3.5 in the NL (See Arroyo, Bronson). Still, $10M is a bit too steep, IMHO.

A full run a game? Isn't that a bit steep? For every Bronson Arroyo, I can find you a Mark Mulder or a Tim Hudson.

johnr1note
12-03-2006, 05:11 PM
Kiss my behind. Who is handing them anything? They made a few decent moves, and we are giving credit where credit is due. They are a long way away from winning anything. But you can't say they haven't improved their team with the moves they have made so far.

But how have they improved? While Soriano is an offensive upgrade, one of these days, the Cubs will have to send someone out to the outfield who can actually catch the ball and throw it back. I find it interesting that the Cubs have signed a career 2nd baseman to play CF or LF, and a utility man who spent most of last year as a right fielder to play 2nd base. They will have to outslug teams to win at all, and there are too many holes in that batting order to depend on that. And which of thier ace pitchers will hold the opposition back?

NardiWasHere
12-03-2006, 05:19 PM
And which of thier ace pitchers will hold the opposition back?

See McSuckstein, Sucky


Oh and.. this whole "See Lastname, Firstname" is fairly pretentious. Give it a rest.

Sorry....

Sucky McSuckstein

jabrch
12-03-2006, 06:14 PM
But how have they improved? While Soriano is an offensive upgrade, one of these days, the Cubs will have to send someone out to the outfield who can actually catch the ball and throw it back. I find it interesting that the Cubs have signed a career 2nd baseman to play CF or LF, and a utility man who spent most of last year as a right fielder to play 2nd base. They will have to outslug teams to win at all, and there are too many holes in that batting order to depend on that. And which of thier ace pitchers will hold the opposition back?

Soriano played pretty good LF last year, and played TERRIBLE 2B. That was probably a good move for Soriano to find a position he is better at. He's fast and has a decent arm. 2B was not right for him. He was only put there because he was a SS in the minors (must have been awful) and wasn't going to bump Jeter. Derosa has played lots of 2B in his career.

Their lineup got significantly better. I'm not sure what holes you are actually talking about. Izturis - but that's fine given his D, and the fact that he has had at least one decent season before in his career.

As far as their pitching, they have Zambrano who is a legit Ace. I'd take him over any of our starters. Then they have Hill who looked good in the second half. And they are going to go out and get at least one, if not two pitchers.

Don't sleep on the Cubs. Assuming they acquire 2 pitchers, which all indicators point to as probably, this actually is the first time in a long time that they have had a solid team going into camp where they aren't praying for things. (except for their closer - where Dempster is still a major liability.)

They have been overrated in most of the recent seasons. I think they will be a nice dog this year. I might put a few bucks on their over this year, depending on how high it is. Given how weak the NL is, I could see 90+ wins easily.

johnr1note
12-05-2006, 09:42 AM
Soriano played pretty good LF last year, and played TERRIBLE 2B. That was probably a good move for Soriano to find a position he is better at. He's fast and has a decent arm. 2B was not right for him. He was only put there because he was a SS in the minors (must have been awful) and wasn't going to bump Jeter.

First off, only Adam Dunn committed more errors than the Fonz last year in the NL. Soriano led the league in assists, yes, but Manny Ramirez regularly is among the league leaders in assists, and nobody brags on his defensive skills. Soriano's ability to judge a fly ball is so suspect, the league runs on him. His speed and his arm make up for some of his defensive deficiencies, and therefore opposing baserunners occasionally get caught off guard. But I wonder how many runners actually get that extra base because of Fonzie's defense? I firmly believe Soriano's defense will offset his offense.

And the interesting thing is, if you compare his fielding percentage and range factor as an outfielder to his supposedly "TERRIBLE" stats as a second baseman, they are very, very similar.

Indeed, Soriano resembes a young outfielder the Cubs acquired in 1992. Lots of speed. Incredible throwing arm. Lots and lots of potential. Great athlete, but lazy -- used his natural athletic ability to try and make up for his lack of defensive baseball skill. Rarely hit the cut off man, but could throw to the plate from deep in the outfield on a fly. His name was Sammy Sosa.

Indeed, if you look at the overall stats, Soriano is so much like a young Sammy, its amazing. That's obviously not all bad, but Sosa was never a gold glove candidate. Indeed, after "bulking up" cost him his speed, he became a much less than ordinary outfielder. Soriano, despite his speed, is really no better.

Derosa has played lots of 2B in his career.

If by "lots" you mean he has played a portion of 180 games at 2B of his 581 career games, and that he has played substantially more games at 3B, SS, and in the outfield, well, I'll give you that. But if you look at Derosa's stats as a second baseman, he's not much better than Soriano at 2B. Both of these moves are HUGE defensive downgrades.

Their lineup got significantly better. I'm not sure what holes you are actually talking about. Izturis - but that's fine given his D, and the fact that he has had at least one decent season before in his career.
Holes? The aforementioned 2B and LF/CF depending on where they stick the Fonz. The crater in right field formed by Jones is pretty obvious. Matt Murton is no great shakes out there, so that gives us an OF trifecta. 1B and C are pretty solid defensively, and as you mention, Itzuris has so far shown he is a decent defensive SS. Ramirez is OK -- not a gold glover, but solid. I am not impressed

As far as their pitching, they have Zambrano who is a legit Ace. I'd take him over any of our starters. Then they have Hill who looked good in the second half. And they are going to go out and get at least one, if not two pitchers.

Don't sleep on the Cubs. Assuming they acquire 2 pitchers, which all indicators point to as probably, this actually is the first time in a long time that they have had a solid team going into camp where they aren't praying for things. (except for their closer - where Dempster is still a major liability.)

Zambrano is very good, don't get me wrong, but at best, he's the no. 3 starter on the White Sox. His emotionally immaturity is a huge deteriment. He's easily rattled, a la Kerry Wood. When the pressure was on others (i.e. Prior, Wood, Maddux), Zambrano flew more under the radar. Will he be able to handle the pressure of being the Cubs No. 1?

Of course, the Cubs may open the checkbook for more pitching. But the Cubs have a history of screwing up with free agent pitchers, and with most of the pitchers eyeing warm weather locations or bankable contenders, I don't think the Cubs are going to get a sniff from the likes of Zito, Schmidt, or Lilly unless they overpay in a big, big way. And the upside risk on big money, long term contracts for pitchers is obvious.

They have been overrated in most of the recent seasons. I think they will be a nice dog this year. I might put a few bucks on their over this year, depending on how high it is. Given how weak the NL is, I could see 90+ wins easily.

And I could just as easily see another 66 win season, especially is one of the key cogs like Lee gets hurt again. Soriano is not a player you build a team around.

Flight #24
12-05-2006, 09:58 AM
The Trib had some very interesting comments today, including a set that weren't put together by them, but which IMO are hilarious when you do.

Ted Lilly, their new pending $10M man and #2 starter:
- Was 3d in the AL in walks last year, a perfect addition to a Cub staff that finished last in the NL in walks allowed.
- Is a flyball pitcher, a perfect fit for Wrigley Field in the summer
- Is somewhere between the 6th and 10th best "available" starter, just right for the #2 on a "contender"

:redneck

They also had scouts saying that the only better "available" pitchers than Garcia/Buehrle/Vazquez are Schmidt & Zito. So a team can trade for one of them as the equivalent of getting a top-tier FA pitcher AND a pretty good bat or reliever via FA at the same cost.