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View Full Version : Salvation May be Coming II


RKMeibalane
11-30-2006, 07:52 PM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2681764)

SABRSox
11-30-2006, 07:54 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

MUsoxfan
11-30-2006, 07:58 PM
"My contract runs for the next three-plus years. I'll be 75 years of age and & I want to teach and write a book and do some other things," he said.
Newest class being offered at Marquette in 3 years:

Avoiding Responsibility
Cudahy Hall Rm. 001
Prof. AH Selig

JUribe1989
11-30-2006, 08:51 PM
Baseball fans have been completely unfair to Bud Selig. IMO, he has been a great commissioner and I would like to see any of you that criticize him try to take on the job he has. I will be sad to see Bud go.

Trav
11-30-2006, 09:17 PM
He screwed up baseball so much that it will never be saved. If the next guy isn't a former owner then baseball has a chance. A slight chance. But the owners will never allow that so MLB is done. It will continue to go downhill and one day we will wake up to find that baseball is as scarce as field hockey. Thanks Bud.

samram
11-30-2006, 09:26 PM
He screwed up baseball so much that it will never be saved. If the next guy isn't a former owner then baseball has a chance. A slight chance. But the owners will never allow that so MLB is done. It will continue to go downhill and one day we will wake up to find that baseball is as scarce as field hockey. Thanks Bud.

I don't like Selig either, but saying he screwed up baseball seems strange when owners are apparently swimming in money like Scrooge McDuck. That money is coming from somewhere.

Trav
11-30-2006, 09:40 PM
I don't like Selig either, but saying he screwed up baseball seems strange when owners are apparently swimming in money like Scrooge McDuck. That money is coming from somewhere.

If he wasn't making the owners money he would still be there. He screwed up the game not the buisness. He screwed the average fan and the families. He screwed up the integrity of the game. He screwed up the competitive balance. Where he saw cracks, he made no fix. Where there were no cracks, he made holes. Selig is good for the owners and that's about it.

itsnotrequired
11-30-2006, 09:59 PM
If he wasn't making the owners money he would still be there. He screwed up the game not the buisness. He screwed the average fan and the families. He screwed up the integrity of the game. He screwed up the competitive balance. Where he saw cracks, he made no fix. Where there were no cracks, he made holes. Selig is good for the owners and that's about it.

So what's so surprising about this? Selig is the owner's employee. If he wasn't doing a satisfactory job, he would have gotten the heave-ho years ago. Baseball is a business and business is good...

Trav
11-30-2006, 10:03 PM
So what's so surprising about this? Selig is the owner's employee. If he wasn't doing a satisfactory job, he would have gotten the heave-ho years ago. Baseball is a business and business is good...


Who is surprised?

And baseball is more than a business, it's a game. Or at least it was...

samram
11-30-2006, 10:05 PM
So what's so surprising about this? Selig is the owner's employee. If he wasn't doing a satisfactory job, he would have gotten the heave-ho years ago. Baseball is a business and business is good...

Is Selig actually the owners' employee or is he an employee of MLB, Inc. and supposedly independent? Either way, the owners and union approve of him because they've made bank during his reign so he's not going anywhere as long as he wants the job.

lakeviewsoxfan
11-30-2006, 10:09 PM
Is Selig actually the owners' employee or is he an employee of MLB, Inc. and supposedly independent? Either way, the owners and union approve of him because they've made bank during his reign so he's not going anywhere as long as he wants the job.

We have a winner.

Trav
11-30-2006, 10:09 PM
Is Selig actually the owners' employee or is he an employee of MLB, Inc. and supposedly independent? Either way, the owners and union approve of him because they've made bank during his reign so he's not going anywhere as long as he wants the job.


Selig only has to be approved by the owners, I think. He is supposed to be independent. I know that much.

SouthSide_HitMen
11-30-2006, 10:26 PM
Selig only has to be approved by the owners, I think. He is supposed to be independent. I know that much.

Commissioners traditionally had some independence. This all changed after the Fay Vincent coup. I would not expect any future commissioner to feign independence from ownership in the future.

samram
11-30-2006, 10:35 PM
Commissioners traditionally had some independence. This all changed after the Fay Vincent coup. I would not expect any future commissioner to feign independence from ownership in the future.

Well, they can pretend all they want, but everyone knows what the deal is. Even if the next commissioner were to be independent (:rolling:), the presumption of partiality would be against them.

FedEx227
11-30-2006, 10:46 PM
Yeah, I miss the good old days when commissioners use to ban players without merit or research, blocked owners from buying certain teams, attempted to curb the minor league system and strove to maintain racial segregation in baseball. Whatever you can do to keep Branch Rickey down, that's the way to go!

The great old days.

It's popular to bad-mouth Selig, without seeing what past commissioners have done, but he's done quite a lot of good for the MLB. Although people can obviously blame him for the steroid abuse in the 90s, nobody gave a damn that Bowie Kuhn ignored the rampit use of Amphetamines and even attacked Jim Bouton when he went as far as mention greenies in "Ball Four". Not to mention the amount of restrictions he wanted to put on Negro League players entering the Hall of Fame as well as making it a point to add Yaz to the All-Star game in his final year but not doing the same for Willie Stargel.

If steroids, killing the Expos' a doomed franchise, a 1994 strike and divisional/interleague play are the worst things Selig did then count your blessings.

samram
11-30-2006, 10:55 PM
Yeah, I miss the good old days when commissioners use to ban players without merit or research, blocked owners from buying certain teams, attempted to curb the minor league system and strove to maintain racial segregation in baseball.

The great old days.

I think it's a stretch to say an independent commissioner would undertake the same actions in today's environment. Do you think that the commissioner must be accountable to the owners now in order to prevent such things? Or are you just saying that things in the good old days weren't always as great as some make them out to be? I would agree with that.

SouthSide_HitMen
11-30-2006, 10:55 PM
Yeah, I miss the good old days when commissioners use to ban players without merit or research, blocked owners from buying certain teams, attempted to curb the minor league system and strove to maintain racial segregation in baseball.

The great old days.

It's popular wisdom to bad-mouth Selig, but he's done quite a lot of good for the game of MLB. Although people can obviously blame him for the steroid abuse in the 90s, nobody gave a damn that Bowie Kuhn ignored the rampit use of Amphetamines and even attacked Jim Bouton when he went as far as mention greenies in "Ball Four".

:rolleyes:
Selig ignored speed for about the same amount of time as Kuhn's term. Ditto steroids. The testing is a sham an entire class of steroids is still not being tested. Selig also lied to Congress on several occasions. 1994.

Selig is scum. Good riddance.

Brian26
11-30-2006, 10:55 PM
He screwed up baseball so much that it will never be saved.

That's insane.

JUribe1989
11-30-2006, 10:59 PM
That's insane.


It's beyond that. It's the most ridiculous comment ever made by a poster on a baseball message board. If the game is ruined, why do you still watch it?

FedEx227
11-30-2006, 11:03 PM
I think it's a stretch to say an independent commissioner would undertake the same actions in today's environment. Do you think that the commissioner must be accountable to the owners now in order to prevent such things? Or are you just saying that things in the good old days weren't always as great as some make them out to be? I would agree with that.

Exactly. What great deeds have past commissioners done? Landis did everything in his power to prevent blacks from ever playing a game of major league baseball. But instead he's revered, while Selig makes changes to go along with the growing market and faster-paced society and he's "screwed up baseball from which it will never recover"...please.

Landis instead of taking the time to figure out the Black Sox scandal just banned all suspected players involved, preventing any of them from actually plead their case. While most were guilty, I look at a select few, mainly Buck Weaver, whose career and life was changed because of a bone-headed, my way of the highway commissioner who based his banning on the fact that Weaver associated... ASSOCIATED with crooks and gamblers he would not receive leniency.

"Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked players and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball."

If people really want that, then fine. Hopefully the next commish bans every player who has big muscles, Frank Thomas was big, let's get rid of him, Ryan Howard sure is big, Albert Pujols has acne. Did they take steroids? We damn we don't know, but people said they did, so let's ban them.

Damn, let's ban all of the San Francisco Giants managers, trainers, grounds-crew, ditto for the Oakland A's. If you got a scandal, don't solve it, just ban people.

Better yet, lets just stop letting Japanese players into the major leagues. They don't maintain the purity that is major league baseball.

The fact is Selig changed with the times because he had to. Landis never did and baseball as a business suffered, Kuhn let greenies penetrate the major league baseball scene and turned his back on it. Selig made GOOD business decisions, and frankly as much as people would love to make MLB a pure sport... it's not, it's a business, plain and simple. Selig added the wild-card which brings extra excitement to ballparks for the last 2-3 weeks of a season. The fact that people want to rid divisional play is a complete joke as well. It is 2006, people NEED to understand that. It's not logical to have 16 teams battle for 1-2 spots, it won't happen, you will do nothing but kill the markets of teams in the 4-16 range because they won't see a realistic chance of postseason action.

For how much crap Selig has gotten... 1 team has moved during his time. One. I'd love to see the numbers of the other great past commissioners.

samram
11-30-2006, 11:22 PM
The fact is Selig changed with the times because he had to. Landis never did and baseball as a business suffered, Kuhn let greenies penetrate the major league baseball scene and turned his back on it. Selig made GOOD business decisions, and frankly as much as people would love to make MLB a pure sport... it's not, it's a business, plain and simple. Selig added the wild-card which brings extra excitement to ballparks for the last 2-3 weeks of a season. The fact that people want to rid divisional play is a complete joke as well. It is 2006, people NEED to understand that. It's not logical to have 16 teams battle for 1-2 spots, it won't happen, you will do nothing but kill the markets of teams in the 4-16 range because they won't see a realistic chance of postseason action.

For how much crap Selig has gotten... 1 team has moved during his time. One. I'd love to see the numbers of the other great past commissioners.

I'll give Selig credit for realizing that selling to purists does nothing for the sport. MLB has different challenges than the NFL or NBA do because of the number of games and the randomness of matchups. Therefore, he needed to make sure there was a reason to watch games in more markets come late August and September and the wildcard achieved that objective.

My biggest problem with him is his complicity in the steroids thing. However, criticizing Selig does not necessarily imply admiration for previous commissioners.

Ol' No. 2
11-30-2006, 11:26 PM
Be careful what you wish for. There may come a day when you wish we had Selig back.

DumpJerry
11-30-2006, 11:47 PM
I would not hold my breath expecting the next Commish to be much different.

I nominate our own Daver for the job. That would be too much fun to watch!

ewokpelts
12-01-2006, 06:15 AM
Commissioners traditionally had some independence. This all changed after the Fay Vincent coup. I would not expect any future commissioner to feign independence from ownership in the future.The comissioner was always an EMPLOYEE of MLB inc and the owners. He just had to deal with league presidents(who help a LOT of power back in the day) as well. Selig changed that with his merger of the league offices into the comissioner's office.

And as much as he pisses me off, he hasnt "ruined" the game. The game is doing very well the last few years. There has been a lot of teams in the playoff picture, and we do have 7 years with 7 different world champions.

itsnotrequired
12-01-2006, 07:12 AM
Who is surprised?

And baseball is more than a business, it's a game. Or at least it was...

This is the classic Catch 22 when it comes to professional sports. When it is under scrutiny by Congress or the FTC, it is "just a game". When it is marginalized as compared to other industries, it is "a legit business".

Baseball at its core is a game. The act of arranging matchups and running a team is a business.

itsnotrequired
12-01-2006, 07:16 AM
Be careful what you wish for. There may come a day when you wish we had Selig back.

Selig's last few seasons have been phenomenal. Attendance records have been broken, new stadiums have been built, profits are through the roof, a new labor deal was brokered ahead of schedule, etc. In the context of competition for entertainment dollars (other sports, the Internet, video games, etc.), Selig's impact on the game the last few seasons cannot be underestimated.

But like you say, some knob could move on in and really set baseball back. Profits could fall, public interest could wane, etc.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-01-2006, 07:21 AM
The comissioner was always an EMPLOYEE of MLB inc and the owners. He just had to deal with league presidents(who help a LOT of power back in the day) as well. Selig changed that with his merger of the league offices into the comissioner's office.

And as much as he pisses me off, he hasnt "ruined" the game. The game is doing very well the last few years. There has been a lot of teams in the playoff picture, and we do have 7 years with 7 different world champions.

Is this post some type of response to my post. Nowhere did I say the commissioner was not an employee of MLB in past years or say he "ruined" the game.

At times, Selig remains totally incompetent (drug testing fiasco which is still an issue since BALCO type drugs remain non tested), at other times culpable with others for ruining the game (1994) at least on a temporary basis.

I don't know how "parity" is a selling point with medicore teams and playoff frauds (i.e. wild cards) winning short series and declared so called "champions".

itsnotrequired
12-01-2006, 07:55 AM
Is this post some type of response to my post. Nowhere did I say the commissioner was not an employee of MLB in past years or say he "ruined" the game.

At times, Selig remains totally incompetent (drug testing fiasco which is still an issue since BALCO type drugs remain non tested), at other times culpable with others for ruining the game (1994) at least on a temporary basis.

I don't know how "parity" is a selling point with medicore teams and playoff frauds (i.e. wild cards) winning short series and declared so called "champions".

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/576/mermanamw9.jpg

Welcome to the dynamic nature of the game. People cried "Foul!" when the Giants and Dodgers moved to the California, when divisional play was created (both times), when the AL adopted the DH, etc. Baseball has evolved over the years and will continue to do so.

The current playoff scheme has resulted in increased fan interest and increased revenues for players, owners, advertisers, etc. Everyone is winning.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-01-2006, 08:08 AM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/576/mermanamw9.jpg

Welcome to the dynamic nature of the game. People cried "Foul!" when the Giants and Dodgers moved to the California, when divisional play was created (both times), when the AL adopted the DH, etc. Baseball has evolved over the years and will continue to do so.

The current playoff scheme has resulted in increased fan interest and increased revenues for players, owners, advertisers, etc. Everyone is winning.

*insert Michael Vick picture flipping the bird in a Teddy Bear costume*

Inflation and increases in population guarantees increased revenue. Vince McMahon increased revenue by parading his steroid freaks around the country as well. It doesn't mean the competition wasn't a farce.

Bud Selig has failed to police the integrity of the game (steroids) during his entire tenure and proceeded over the only cancelled season (1994) in baseball's century plus history. As a fan, I judge his reign as poor to failed.

Let Reinsdorf celebrate his tenure - he and his partners divvy up the cash each year. My only financial interest is in the tickets I purchase and the taxes I pay to fund their capital expenses.

EDIT - PS - We assume baseball makes a profit even though we do not have access to their books. The last time baseball's financial records were presented pubically was when Bud Selig testified in front of Congress stating MLB lost $232 million collectively (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2001/1205/1290564.html) which we know is one of the many times Bud Selig lied to Congress.

His latest performance in DC was his testimony regarding his drug testing scheme which stated offenders would be called out publically when in fact disclosures were left to the discretion of the commissioner. If it weren't for congressional staff calling out Bud Selig on his latest perjured testimony in our nation's capital we may or may not have known of yet another of Bud Selig's sham players, Rafael Palmeiro's receiving a positive test under his weak, non independent, non comprehensive drug testing policy (Palmeiro was so rash and stupid he failed to take the undetectable steroids that hundreds of players have taken over the years).

These and other episodes of bold faced lies give him another strike as far as I am concerned. Great for the owners. Bad for the fans and game itself.

Fenway
12-01-2006, 08:53 AM
The game HAS grown under Selig in ways nobody could have imagined. I resent the man for the way he killed the Montreal franchise because I believe he had it in for Montreal when they and not Milwaukee was granted an expansion team in 1969 and Selig had to find an another team and luckily for him the Seattle Pilots fell into his lap.

On the other hand Selig understood the power of the internet much earlier than the other sports and now MLB interactive media is a powerhouse.

The steriods mess should have been handled earlier but at least now there is something in place that seems to be working. We have labor peace for the first time in decades. The game is in good shape.

But Selig does have a sincere love of the game and I hope whoever comes after does as well.

Grzegorz
12-01-2006, 08:54 AM
Welcome to the dynamic nature of the game. People cried "Foul!" when the Giants and Dodgers moved to the California, when divisional play was created (both times), when the AL adopted the DH, etc. Baseball has evolved over the years and will continue to do so.

The current playoff scheme has resulted in increased fan interest and increased revenues for players, owners, advertisers, etc. Everyone is winning.

I personally dislike the wild card and expansion; the former put less of an emphasis on the season and the latter dilutes the talent in the game.

The marketing and the business end of the game improves but the quality of the game has decreased immensely.

itsnotrequired
12-01-2006, 09:42 AM
I personally dislike the wild card and expansion; the former put less of an emphasis on the season and the latter dilutes the talent in the game.

The marketing and the business end of the game improves but the quality of the game has decreased immensely.

I don't really buy into the dilution of talent argument. There are more teams today than there was 40 years ago but there is also a heck of a lot more people in the world (and hence, a larger talent pool). In 1960, there were 16 ML teams and the US population was approximately 180 million. Here in 2006, there are 30 ML teams and the population is approximately 300 million. So the number of teams increased 87% while the population increased 66%. There isn't much of a difference there. When you factor in the amount of worldwide scouting compared to 1960, the talent pool is even larger.

I like to believe that as the population increases, the number of ML-caliber baseball players increases as well. I mean, it isn't like there can only be 50 awesome players on the planet at any given time, regardless of world population.

I want Mags back
12-01-2006, 11:46 AM
"My contract runs for the next three-plus years. I'll be 75 years of age and & I want to teach and write a book and do some other things," he said.

He's 72? wow he looks great for his age

Lip Man 1
12-01-2006, 11:58 AM
Except for that haircut.

:cool:

Lip

downstairs
12-01-2006, 12:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2681764

Selig out :D:

In 2009 :angry:

SoXPriDe33
12-01-2006, 12:59 PM
:searchfirst:

WizardsofOzzie
12-01-2006, 01:04 PM
And TornLabrum gets closer and closer to losing it

ewokpelts
12-01-2006, 01:29 PM
I personally dislike the wild card and expansion; the former put less of an emphasis on the season and the latter dilutes the talent in the game.

The marketing and the business end of the game improves but the quality of the game has decreased immensely.the wild card places LOTS of emphasis....detroit still had to win 95 games to win the wild card

TornLabrum
12-01-2006, 01:29 PM
And TornLabrum gets closer and closer to losing it

Guess who merged the threads!

WizardsofOzzie
12-01-2006, 01:31 PM
Guess who merged the threads!
Chuck Norris?

Hangar18
12-01-2006, 01:43 PM
Baseball fans have been completely unfair to Bud Selig. IMO, he has been a great commissioner and I would like to see any of you that criticize him try to take on the job he has. I will be sad to see Bud go.


Bud Selig is a YES man ......

downstairs
12-01-2006, 02:22 PM
Guess who merged the threads!

Sorry....

I didn't see any subject lines that seemed to be about Selig...

Should have seen this one and looked deeper...

TornLabrum
12-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Sorry....

I didn't see any subject lines that seemed to be about Selig...

Should have seen this one and looked deeper...

Or done a search for "Selig."

Trav
12-01-2006, 04:24 PM
It's beyond that. It's the most ridiculous comment ever made by a poster on a baseball message board. If the game is ruined, why do you still watch it?


Because I love the Sox. And because I love baseball. I've tried to give it up but I keep coming back. The reasons why I believe Selig has screwed up the game are all over this thread and if you didn't notice by following baseball then you really need to pay more attention. The blackmailing, the favortism to the big market clubs, allowing teams to receive more in revenue sharing than they spend on payroll, ignoring drug use, cancelling a World Series, shooting a franchise in the foot, watering down a perfectly good playoff system, watering down the talent level for baseball as a whole, etc... That's quite the resume for dear old bud. But hey, he made the owners money and brought us the unbalanced schedule! Woo hoo!

Keep your head in the sand and enjoy watching the World Series on cable in a few years.

gogosox675
12-01-2006, 04:47 PM
[quote=Grzegorz;1426425]I personally dislike the wild card and expansion; the former put less of an emphasis on the season and the latter dilutes the talent in the game.

I hate it the only race that there is left is when 2 teams are playing and one will win the division and one will win the wild card. That's not emphasis, in fact it's pretty much the opposite.

jabrch
12-01-2006, 05:58 PM
Bud Selig turned a blind eye to the profitability of steroids. No - he went ahead and promoted steroids. He promoted the Sosa/McGwire fiasco. He promoted Bonds. His administration was directly responsiblel for allowing the game to be dominated for over a decade by cheaters.

The owners made money - they love him. The players made money - they love him. But the real fans of the game, those who loved the game before the crazy HR numbers, are the ones who Bud violated the most. If you loved a 2-1 pitchers duel, Bud screwed you in a way for which he should not ever be forgiven.

Brian26
12-01-2006, 09:18 PM
Because I love the Sox. And because I love baseball. I've tried to give it up but I keep coming back. The reasons why I believe Selig has screwed up the game are all over this thread and if you didn't notice by following baseball then you really need to pay more attention. The blackmailing, the favortism to the big market clubs, allowing teams to receive more in revenue sharing than they spend on payroll, ignoring drug use, cancelling a World Series, shooting a franchise in the foot, watering down a perfectly good playoff system, watering down the talent level for baseball as a whole, etc... That's quite the resume for dear old bud. But hey, he made the owners money and brought us the unbalanced schedule! Woo hoo!

Keep your head in the sand and enjoy watching the World Series on cable in a few years.

I think I disagree with every one of those points. Rather than dissect that entire post, let me pick out two points:

Blaming Selig for the demise of the Montreal Expos franchise is unfair. Montreal had some great teams in the late 80s and early 90s, but the city just couldn't draw fans. People there were apathetic towards baseball, which affected their broadcast revenues (weren't they without a tv contract at the end?), and ultimately their ability to retain players. Its hard to blame Selig for that.

The cable tv comment shows lack of foresight. 20 years ago Fox didn't even exist, and now it is a major network. Most people have cable television now. Monday Night Football is on ESPN. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to see the World Series on ESPN. Now, expanding upon that, I hope that the World Series is never on payperview, because there is something to be said about the casual fan being able to come across the big game events.

ewokpelts
12-02-2006, 12:10 AM
I think I disagree with every one of those points. Rather than dissect that entire post, let me pick out two points:

Blaming Selig for the demise of the Montreal Expos franchise is unfair. Montreal had some great teams in the late 80s and early 90s, but the city just couldn't draw fans. People there were apathetic towards baseball, which affected their broadcast revenues (weren't they without a tv contract at the end?), and ultimately their ability to retain players. Its hard to blame Selig for that.

The cable tv comment shows lack of foresight. 20 years ago Fox didn't even exist, and now it is a major network. Most people have cable television now. Monday Night Football is on ESPN. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to see the World Series on ESPN. Now, expanding upon that, I hope that the World Series is never on payperview, because there is something to be said about the casual fan being able to come across the big game events.
If Eddie Einhorn had his way, Espn would be OWNED(pwned?) by mlb. And I wouldnt be suprised if they would have shifted the World Series to Espn. Selig and the owners are finally getting thier act together about an all baseball channel. And More and more teams own cable stations or have stakes in them(the Rockies are actually part owned by thier local FSN channel, and ALL thier non-national games are on said FSN). And let's not forge that MLB Advanced Media is THE POWERHOUSE in online sports. It does so well that MLB runs MLS' sites, as well as went on an aquisition spree(tickets.com, other online sports sites). The ONLY thing bad about mlb.com is that we cant watch live local broadcasts online. The White Sox' stake in mlb.com is $66 Million Dollars, with an initial investment of $5 million. That is due mainly to Selig's insisitence about mlb taking the lead in the internet.

I think the World Series will remian on broadcast for a long while, but to be honest, cable aint that bad for the other rounds(especially if Turner Sports continues to shell out the money for the game rights)

bigfoot
12-02-2006, 07:49 AM
Can MLB Network be very far behind the NFL Network offering of an initial limited number of regular season games and eventually the entire package? It would seem to make great business sense to be able to control the advertising $ targeting specific audiences via the cable access , start times, access to any of your favorite teams games. With the vast archive of MLB video the Network could be filled up 24/7.

ewokpelts
12-02-2006, 01:41 PM
Can MLB Network be very far behind the NFL Network offering of an initial limited number of regular season games and eventually the entire package? It would seem to make great business sense to be able to control the advertising $ targeting specific audiences via the cable access , start times, access to any of your favorite teams games. With the vast archive of MLB video the Network could be filled up 24/7.that's the plan.....be the MAIN source of mlb on tv....although teams wont abandon thier cable partners(like the yankees will just give up YES?)

Trav
12-02-2006, 04:25 PM
I think I disagree with every one of those points. Rather than dissect that entire post, let me pick out two points:

Blaming Selig for the demise of the Montreal Expos franchise is unfair. Montreal had some great teams in the late 80s and early 90s, but the city just couldn't draw fans. People there were apathetic towards baseball, which affected their broadcast revenues (weren't they without a tv contract at the end?), and ultimately their ability to retain players. Its hard to blame Selig for that.

The cable tv comment shows lack of foresight. 20 years ago Fox didn't even exist, and now it is a major network. Most people have cable television now. Monday Night Football is on ESPN. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to see the World Series on ESPN. Now, expanding upon that, I hope that the World Series is never on payperview, because there is something to be said about the casual fan being able to come across the big game events.

I wasn't talking about the Expos. I was talking about the Twins. And Fox isn't cable. The more prime games you put on cable the more you are not letting folks with who don't have cable watch. But then again why would we care about the poor fans. They won't be spending money going to games, buying a jersesy, etc...

Brian26
12-02-2006, 04:30 PM
I wasn't talking about the Expos. I was talking about the Twins. And Fox isn't cable. The more prime games you put on cable the more you are not letting folks with who don't have cable watch. But then again why would we care about the poor fans. They won't be spending money going to games, buying a jersesy, etc...

I think you missed the point of my message, which was that cable is no longer necessarily deemed a "luxury" and a majority of homes in this country have cable or satellite providers.

How did Selig shoot the Twins in the foot?

Trav
12-02-2006, 06:34 PM
I think you missed the point of my message, which was that cable is no longer necessarily deemed a "luxury" and a majority of homes in this country have cable or satellite providers.

How did Selig shoot the Twins in the foot?

It certainly isn't a luxery but ratings on the networks will always beat the ratings on cable, at least from the un-informed mind. And there are still alot of people who don't have cable. I was one of these people up until a few months ago.


After Bud mentioned that the Twins were going to be contracted no FA wanted to sign there. They were an up and coming team at the time. They had some young players and there were a few guys that may have signed there that year to balance out the roster if it wasn't for Selig deciding that the Twins were expendable. This is what I remember thinking at the time and I could be wrong. But I don't think so.

I have no problem with contraction, it would be good for baseball, I think. But why couldn't Selig see that when he was adding teams a few years prior? And why would he talk about which teams were up for contraction? I don't remember why he mentioned specific teams. Does anyone remember?

ewokpelts
12-02-2006, 06:44 PM
It certainly isn't a luxery but ratings on the networks will always beat the ratings on cable, at least from the un-informed mind. And there are still alot of people who don't have cable. I was one of these people up until a few months ago.


After Bud mentioned that the Twins were going to be contracted no FA wanted to sign there. They were an up and coming team at the time. They had some young players and there were a few guys that may have signed there that year to balance out the roster if it wasn't for Selig deciding that the Twins were expendable. This is what I remember thinking at the time and I could be wrong. But I don't think so.

I have no problem with contraction, it would be good for baseball, I think. But why couldn't Selig see that when he was adding teams a few years prior? And why would he talk about which teams were up for contraction? I don't remember why he mentioned specific teams. Does anyone remember?the twins won three division titles from 2002-2004...with 2002 being thier "last" year.
Carl Polhad VOLUNTEERED to contraction. He wanted to be bought out for $250 MILLION DOLLARS. And 28 teams wanted to feast on thier farm system in a dispersal draft(Expos had a pretty good system at the time too). To Selig's credit, contraction wasnt his idea, and he resisted it(especially before the brewers got a stadium built). As for the twins? They were able to use contraction to thier advantage, and are now planning to move into a new building by 2009.

Daver
12-02-2006, 06:50 PM
But why couldn't Selig see that when he was adding teams a few years prior?

Bud and the rest of the owners added those franchises for one reason, and one reason only, they needed the cash generated from franchise fees to pay off the hundred and some million dollars in damages that they were ordered to pay to the MLBPA after being found guilty of collusion. Bud and the owners actually got off easy, because baseball has an antitrust exemption, they only had to pay simple damages, as opposed to the treble damages any other corproation would be hit with.

Trav
12-02-2006, 07:07 PM
the twins won three division titles from 2002-2004...with 2002 being thier "last" year.
Carl Polhad VOLUNTEERED to contraction. He wanted to be bought out for $250 MILLION DOLLARS. And 28 teams wanted to feast on thier farm system in a dispersal draft(Expos had a pretty good system at the time too). To Selig's credit, contraction wasnt his idea, and he resisted it(especially before the brewers got a stadium built). As for the twins? They were able to use contraction to thier advantage, and are now planning to move into a new building by 2009.

Interesting. I didn't realize the Polhad volunteered.

I guess it is a good thing I can't stand Selig for so many other reasons. :redneck