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View Full Version : Sox Renew Buehrle's Contract


Chisox_cali
03-06-2002, 07:26 PM
BURLY (http://chicagosports.com/whitesox/content/story/0,1984,177010,00.html)

Cheryl
03-06-2002, 07:35 PM
So he ended up with less than they offered a few weeks ago. The kid needs a new agent.

czalgosz
03-06-2002, 07:36 PM
Wow, he ended up taking less than what they originally offered him.

:reinsy

Who do you think I am, Tom Hicks?

duke of dorwood
03-06-2002, 10:26 PM
Only in this town would this happen-he wont forget this later.

Pete_SSAC
03-06-2002, 10:37 PM
Oh sure, let's piss off the guy who carried us through last season so we weren't a complete joke.

I think everytime he pitches at Comiskey, we should throw money at him. An incetive for stay here.

- Pete

kermittheefrog
03-06-2002, 10:49 PM
Well it's not really up to Buehrle or his agent. The team can pay him whatever the hell they want. They just "negotiate" to get an idea what the player expects so they at least know when and how much they are pissing him off.

MattSharp
03-06-2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Well it's not really up to Buehrle or his agent. The team can pay him whatever the hell they want. They just "negotiate" to get an idea what the player expects so they at least know when and how much they are pissing him off.

Right next time hes a free agent he can ask for what he wants and get it or leave....

Kilroy
03-07-2002, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by MattSharp


Right next time hes a free agent he can ask for what he wants and get it or leave....

Actually he'll have to go thru a couple of arbitration years before that if the Sox hold true to form.

As far as Buehrle's deal, I think the Sox coulda done a little better, maybe 400k, but I don't think something like the Sabathia deal is warranted yet. If he puts together another season like last year, then the Sox should step up to the plate and get him signed to a 3 year deal.

foulkesfan11
03-07-2002, 08:51 AM
Will all of the overpaid players in the league, I think Buerhle should make at LEAST 400,000. He was robbed! Typical Sox Management move.

HawkDJ
03-07-2002, 08:55 AM
How about this quote from Buehrle:

"The future's not even here yet. Who knows if I'll even be here next year?

It could just be an innocent quote, but I don't think it will be easy to keep Buehrle here for a long time by the way they are treating him so far.

Soxboyrob
03-07-2002, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Well it's not really up to Buehrle or his agent. The team can pay him whatever the hell they want. They just "negotiate" to get an idea what the player expects so they at least know when and how much they are pissing him off.

Please elaborate on this further because I'm wondering....can't a player like Buehrle refuse to play, ie hold out for a higher salary, even if he's a rookie? I would think that if he had that ability, he could really put the Sox in a bad spot by refusing to play for less than $400k or $500k. Imagine how bad a spot we'd be in if our ace was holding out because he wanted a paltry $500k and the team wouldn't pay it. Bad press for the Sox, from my perspective. Fans seem to like Mark pretty well and might back him on that. Just wondering.

idseer
03-07-2002, 09:33 AM
i firmly believe mark is gone the first chance he gets. very few want to play for this team anyway because of the way they run things here. mark inadvertantly let it be known where his heart is and whether they paid him his 400k or not he's gone.

i only hope we can win it all before he leaves.

Soxboyrob
03-07-2002, 09:36 AM
The team offers him $325k and he counters w/ a request for $400k or so. The team doesn't like that and decides to punish him by coming back at him and telling him he'll get $310k and like it. That's just precious.

It's stuff like this that makes me embarrassed to root for this organization.

ma-gaga
03-07-2002, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by idseer
i firmly believe mark is gone the first chance he gets. very few want to play for this team anyway because of the way they run things here. mark inadvertantly let it be known where his heart is and whether they paid him his 400k or not he's gone.

i only hope we can win it all before he leaves.

The way the system is set up, the Sox have rights to Burly for 6 years before he becomes a free agent. Right now, you don't need to worry unless he starts complaing or actively requesting a trade... You're looking at a problem YEARS out.

Then he can go into the Travis Lee/Mark Texiera category, annoying draft picks that dictate who cannot take them.

DrCrawdad
03-07-2002, 09:49 AM
On this contract matter with Buehrle-man, I side with the Sox. Buehrle had a great year in 2001, but I'd be hesitant too if I were in their position - at this point. IF, IF Buehrle does well again, then lock him in with a decent contract.

BTW, where is that guy with his ruler?

The Sox got comparable "inches" to the Cubbies today, but the tone of the Sun-Times was so typically negative - "Frugal Sox stick it to Buehrle".

And of course on Tuesday when the Sox destroyed the Cubbies, was that featured?

Let's see what happens after Mr. Hype - Mark Prior - pitches against the Sox on Friday. You can count on it that IF Mr. Hype pitches well it will be get all kinds of attention on Friday's TV Sports-casts and on Saturday & Sunday in the rags.

- DrCrawdad

Soxboyrob
03-07-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
On this contract matter with Buehrle-man, I side with the Sox. Buehrle had a great year in 2001, but I'd be hesitant too if I were in their position - at this point. IF, IF Buehrle does well again, then lock him in with a decent contract.

- DrCrawdad

No diputing this attitude, Dr., but the Sox appear to have purposely "punished" Mark for asking for a fair, "market value" salary. The Sox have the upper hand from the bargaining perspective in these negotiations, but what is $25k, $50k or $100K from the standpoint of keeping your best pitcher on good terms w/ the organization? Especially considering that he was asking for a reasonably fair raise? The guy wasn't requesting the franchise or the sky or anything. He also pitched effectively in 2000, so we shouldn't just view 2001 as a potential fluke season. The Sox would have been extremely well served to have just offered to split the diff w/ Buehrle between their initial $325k offer and his $400k request. $360k could have made all parties happy. Instead, they gave him $310k. For the $50k they saved, they may have just turned their finest pitcher very sour on the organization. Cooler heads should have prevailed on this one.

Randar68
03-07-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by idseer
i firmly believe mark is gone the first chance he gets. very few want to play for this team anyway because of the way they run things here. mark inadvertantly let it be known where his heart is and whether they paid him his 400k or not he's gone.

i only hope we can win it all before he leaves.



Mark is also very young in his career in the league and, in my opinion, seems pretty naive about the whole process...EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE DOES THIS!

I am sure they are just playing it safe to see if Buehrle can prove to them he is going to be a good pitcher in the long-term. At that point, the Sox will probably sign him to a deal that end 1 year prior to his hitting UFA.

It is smart business practice, whether or not it makes for hard feelings or bad PR.

When was the last time your employers did for you what you thought was "right" as far as pay, etc.? They do what is "right" for them and try to meet you half way if you make a fuss.


Has Mark Buehrle ever had a real-life job? Because the scales are different, does not correlate to business practices being different...

idseer
03-07-2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Randar68




Mark is also very young in his career in the league and, in my opinion, seems pretty naive about the whole process...EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE DOES THIS!

I am sure they are just playing it safe to see if Buehrle can prove to them he is going to be a good pitcher in the long-term. At that point, the Sox will probably sign him to a deal that end 1 year prior to his hitting UFA.

It is smart business practice, whether or not it makes for hard feelings or bad PR.

When was the last time your employers did for you what you thought was "right" as far as pay, etc.? They do what is "right" for them and try to meet you half way if you make a fuss.


Has Mark Buehrle ever had a real-life job? Because the scales are different, does not correlate to business practices being different...

while i see your point, i disagree that 'every team does this'!
i doubt every team (or ANY other team for that matter) would have settled things like the sox did.
i agree with almost your whole post except for the particular way the sox undercut their own offer of 325k and seemingly punished him 15k worth.
it's pretty well covered in Soxboyrob's post.

DrCrawdad
03-07-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by idseer
while i see your point, i disagree that 'every team does this'!
i doubt every team (or ANY other team for that matter) would have settled things like the sox did.
i agree with almost your whole post except for the particular way the sox undercut their own offer of 325k and seemingly punished him 15k worth.
it's pretty well covered in Soxboyrob's post.

Well if Buehrle pitches the Sox into the playoffs, he'll make his 15k. And IF Buehrle takes the Sox beyond that, the pay gets even better.

How's that for performance incentives?

czalgosz
03-07-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


Well if Buehrle pitches the Sox into the playoffs, he'll make his 15k. And IF Buehrle takes the Sox beyond that, the pay gets even better.

How's that for performance incentives?

If Mark Buehrle has a great year again this year, the Sox will at least attempt to lock him up into a long-term contract. Who was it that said that 400 innings is the barometer to judge a pitcher? Well, he should pass 400 innings this season. Once he shows that he is more than a flash in the pan, then the Sox will reward him with a long-term contract, IMO.

Lisa
03-07-2002, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob


No diputing this attitude, Dr., but the Sox appear to have purposely "punished" Mark for asking for a fair, "market value" salary.

They didn't punish him for asking for $400K. They punished him for whining in the media. And in all honesty, I can't blame them. Think about it: You run a company. You have a guy that's been there a year. Did great work, but at the end of that one year, he demands a large raise. You wonder if he'll do the same kind of work next year, because there are some that don't, so you counteroffer. The employee then goes on to make his beef public in the worst way. He doesn't take the counteroffer. What do you do?

To me, Buehrle showed that he's not an "organization" player. That was really stupid. Let's say that Buehrle doesn't pitch as well this year, or he has some injury problems down the road. Will that image hurt him with the Sox? Possibly. Take Valentin as an example. He showed he was an "organization" player by takingless money than some other offers to stay in Chicago. He was willing to play other positions, as long as he could play. He's been rewarded by the Sox, who have made sure he has a job here and have given him regular playing time, despite his injuries and errors. Buehrle may need that goodwill at some point (although I hope not). 2nd year players don't have the latitude to make public demands, in my book.

idseer
03-07-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Lisa


Take Valentin as an example. He showed he was an "organization" player by takingless money than some other offers to stay in Chicago.

not to start anything here, honest. but i'm curious. i remember talking about this and never coming to any conclusions. did, in FACT, jose have any legitemate offers on the table when he sign with the sox?

Lisa
03-07-2002, 03:14 PM
Yes, he had a legitimate offer - I'm trying to remember, but I think it was the Orioles.

DrCrawdad
03-07-2002, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Lisa
Yes, he had a legitimate offer - I'm trying to remember, but I think it was the Orioles.

No, I think it was either Boston or New York - they're not happy with their shortstops.

- DrCrawdad.

Soxboyrob
03-07-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Lisa

They didn't punish him for asking for $400K. They punished him for whining in the media. And in all honesty, I can't blame them.

But did he really whine about it in the media? I'm pretty certain that the media caught wind of the negotiation process and reported it. Can't recall ever seeing any whining coming from Mark or his agent. Nobody's answered my prior question and I'm wondering if anyone knows....Does Buehrle have the ability to hold out if he's not happy w/ the contract that the Sox are sticking to him? Can he say "I won't play unless you pay me more?" I'm pretty sure he can.

idseer
03-07-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


No, I think it was either Boston or New York - they're not happy with their shortstops.

- DrCrawdad.

this is exactly what happened before.
i'm beginning to think it's a fairytale. he never got a legitimate contract and therefore i wish people would stop repeating this fallacy.

FarWestChicago
03-07-2002, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by idseer


this is exactly what happened before.
i'm beginning to think it's a fairytale. he never got a legitimate contract and therefore i wish people would stop repeating this fallacy. LOL! Lisa is right. Manos got an offer from Baltimore for more than what he accepted from the Sox. It is not a fallacy. Nice try at revisionist history. But, Buddy is the player nobody wants. :smile:

baggio202
03-07-2002, 04:29 PM
the guy came out of no where to win 16 games and was in the ERA race the whole year...he is asking for what ankiel made..and if you compare ankiel's record from '00 and buehrle's from last year...while both guys werew good mark was clearly the better pitcher....and is it any wonder he picked a st louis player as a comparision???....and then moron williams/reinsdorf or whoever makes the decision to basically fine him 15k...

if buhrle wins 20 this year i gaurentee he will be traded next year...for 3 prospects from the rangers...

a measley 75 k now (that is measely in baseball salaries) could have gone a long way to keeping out of arbitration in 2 years and free agent market in 5..

for an owner that refuses to pay top dollar for superstars..you would think he would try and keep a potential superstar happy now with basically a 75k insurance policy so buehrle feels good about the org and might end up staying here for less instead of bolting for st louis or new york...

jerry "penny wise and dollar foolish" reinsdorf

DrCrawdad
03-07-2002, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by idseer


this is exactly what happened before.
i'm beginning to think it's a fairytale. he never got a legitimate contract and therefore i wish people would stop repeating this fallacy. 

I was just kidding. Although I do remember that the story is that Valentin had a serious contract offer from Baltimore that he turned down to stay with the Sox. I don't see much reason to doubt the story and I don't care whether it is true or not. I'm just glad Valentin stayed with the Sox.

DrCrawdad
03-07-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
for an owner that refuses to pay top dollar for superstars...

jerry "penny wise and dollar foolish" reinsdorf

This gets repeated so much that it has become fact. I often hear this from my Cubbie-fan friends. The question that I ask is, which superstar has Reinsdorf refused to pay? They point to Ventura, but while I like Robin and know that he's a fan favorite - IMHO it was Ventura's decision to leave the Sox - he could have stayed if he'd wanted to stay. Anyway Robin is not the player he was pre-injury.

But back to the Reinsdorf the cheapskate theory... My Cubbie-fan friends were always telling me "just wait, no way is Reinsdorf going to sign Magglio or Foulke." Well guess what, so far they are signed and still here.

Reinsdorf not wanting to sign long-term deals with pitchers may have cost him the ability to sign a couple of big name free agent pitchers, but that decision has worked out for Reinsdorf.

And in the end, Reinsdorf makes business based decisions. He's not the sole owner of the Sox. He no doubt is under pressure from the Sox board to make a profit. With that in mind they have to make some tough decisions.

RichH55
03-07-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
the guy came out of no where to win 16 games and was in the ERA race the whole year...he is asking for what ankiel made..and if you compare ankiel's record from '00 and buehrle's from last year...while both guys werew good mark was clearly the better pitcher....and is it any wonder he picked a st louis player as a comparision???....and then moron williams/reinsdorf or whoever makes the decision to basically fine him 15k...

if buhrle wins 20 this year i gaurentee he will be traded next year...for 3 prospects from the rangers...

a measley 75 k now (that is measely in baseball salaries) could have gone a long way to keeping out of arbitration in 2 years and free agent market in 5..

for an owner that refuses to pay top dollar for superstars..you would think he would try and keep a potential superstar happy now with basically a 75k insurance policy so buehrle feels good about the org and might end up staying here for less instead of bolting for st louis or new york...

jerry "penny wise and dollar foolish" reinsdorf


Buerhle came out of no where and one year isn't exactly a lifetime as a bonafide savior.....And his media skills leave alot to be desired.....If he performs and JR comes up with the cash we will be hearing that "time heals all wounds".....But seriously someone get Buerhle a media consulatant quick(hopefully not JR's)....Calling Crash Davis!

Daver
03-07-2002, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



Buerhle came out of no where and one year isn't exactly a lifetime as a bonafide savior.....And his media skills leave alot to be desired.....If he performs and JR comes up with the cash we will be hearing that "time heals all wounds".....But seriously someone get Buerhle a media consulatant quick(hopefully not JR's)....Calling Crash Davis!

Perhaps someone should tell him to shut up and play ball.

idseer
03-07-2002, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
LOL! Lisa is right. Manos got an offer from Baltimore for more than what he accepted from the Sox. It is not a fallacy. Nice try at revisionist history. But, Buddy is the player nobody wants. :smile:

fact is ... lisa AND drcrawdad may have been right! i just came across this old link ....
http://archive.sportserver.com/generic/story/0,1673,500282521-500444419-502878516-0,00.html

this is the first i've seen anything definitive on the matter.

Daver
03-07-2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by idseer


fact is ... lisa AND drcrawdad may have been right! i just came across this old link ....
http://archive.sportserver.com/generic/story/0,1673,500282521-500444419-502878516-0,00.html

this is the first i've seen anything definitive on the matter.

I could have told you that hours ago,had I not been at work.Stupid work.:redneck

Dadawg_77
03-07-2002, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by daver


I could have told you that hours ago,had I not been at work.Stupid work.:redneck

But with out work, you couldn't be here :)


I haven't read the article but story is the Sox have shyed away from big and long contracts since Julio Cruz. Blackjack was one pitcher the Sox pushed around and left.

DrCrawdad
03-07-2002, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by idseer


fact is ... lisa AND drcrawdad may have been right! i just came across this old link ....
http://archive.sportserver.com/generic/story/0,1673,500282521-500444419-502878516-0,00.html

this is the first i've seen anything definitive on the matter.

What do I win for my correct answer? Ok, I know I was second. Do I at least get the boobie prize?

Daver
03-07-2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


What do I win for my correct answer? Ok, I know I was second. Do I at least get the boobie prize?

Give that man a kewpie doll!.

baggio202
03-07-2002, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by daver


Perhaps someone should tell him to shut up and play ball.

i cant believe people are against buhrle on this....looka t other teams and any player that had the kind of year buehrle did at a similiar point in his career was rewarded...buehrle was n ot being unreasonable...

sometimes i think you dont like me daver...lol
was it something i said at soxnet??..lol

Daver
03-07-2002, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by baggio202


i cant believe people are against buhrle on this....looka t other teams and any player that had the kind of year buehrle did at a similiar point in his career was rewarded...buehrle was n ot being unreasonable...

sometimes i think you dont like me daver...lol
was it something i said at soxnet??..lol

Nope,prove something before you try and cash in.

baggio202
03-07-2002, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by daver


Nope,prove something before you try and cash in.

i just did..buehrle is not ureasonable..salary for ankiel proves it

voodoochile
03-07-2002, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by baggio202


i just did..buehrle is not ureasonable..salary for ankiel proves it

Ankiel is example one of why you should NOT give big contracts to young pitchers...

Daver
03-07-2002, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by baggio202


i just did..buehrle is not ureasonable..salary for ankiel proves it

That proves nothing,Ankiel does not play for the Sox.If he had the sense to shut up he would have gotten an extra 15,000.That being said,he can cash in if he backs up his first season.

voodoochile
03-07-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by daver


That proves nothing,Ankiel does not play for the Sox.If he had the sense to shut up he would have gotten an extra 15,000.That being said,he can cash in if he backs up his first season.

If Buehrle goes like 9-5 the first half, look for them to wrap him up before the season is over, or at least make a nice offer, so he will realize they are serious about keeping him...

Vsahajpal
03-08-2002, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


Let's see what happens after Mr. Hype - Mark Prior - pitches against the Sox on Friday. You can count on it that IF Mr. Hype pitches well it will be get all kinds of attention on Friday's TV Sports-casts and on Saturday & Sunday in the rags.

- DrCrawdad


Is he pitching versus the Sox for certain? They have a split squad home&away later today, and I can't find anything about it. Any help would be appreciated.

RedPinStripes
03-08-2002, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by baggio202


i just did..buehrle is not ureasonable..salary for ankiel proves it

And Ankiel spent 2001 in AAA. He can't find the plate.

kermittheefrog
03-08-2002, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


And Ankiel spent 2001 in AAA. He can't find the plate.

But the Cards knew Ankiel was having trouble finding the plate when they renewed him. He didn't pitch in AAA either, he pitched in low a-ball and DHed whne he didn't pitch. He was the Babe Ruth of the Appalachian league as the best hitter and pitcher. Reports out of Cardinals camp have been positive but maybe I should shush up since I have potential fantasy competitors out there... :D:

RedPinStripes
03-08-2002, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


But the Cards knew Ankiel was having trouble finding the plate when they renewed him. He didn't pitch in AAA either, he pitched in low a-ball and DHed whne he didn't pitch. He was the Babe Ruth of the Appalachian league as the best hitter and pitcher. Reports out of Cardinals camp have been positive but maybe I should shush up since I have potential fantasy competitors out there... :D:

What good does it do to send a guy from the bigs to low A ball? :?: I understand he had control problems, but A ball? O well, it's their problem. I'm not a die hard Cards fan until the Sox move to Mexico. :)

voodoochile
03-08-2002, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


And Ankiel spent 2001 in AAA. He can't find the plate.

That was my point. Wait until a guy does it two years in a row and then give him the money...

Soxboyrob
03-08-2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile

That was my point. Wait until a guy does it two years in a row and then give him the money...

Mark didn't exactly just come out of nowhere. He'd been tearing up the minors and pitched well for the Sox two years ago also. He's no flash in the pan, I assure you. Again, no reason to hand him the farm, but to penalize him $15,000 for asking for a fair raise is bull----. Classy teams and classy owners don't do that kind of stuff.

DrCrawdad
03-08-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Is he pitching versus the Sox for certain? They have a split squad home&away later today, and I can't find anything about it. Any help would be appreciated.

Yes, Prior is facing the Sox this afternoon. I'm certain about it.

Prior was on ESPN AM 1000 with Dan McNeil the other day. Prior said that he's pitching vs the Sox today.

BTW I'm not saying that Prior will flop, but has there been anyone else with greater expectations and hype than Prior? I can't think of one.

Vsahajpal
03-08-2002, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


Yes, Prior is facing the Sox this afternoon. I'm certain about it.

Prior was on ESPN AM 1000 with Dan McNeil the other day. Prior said that he's pitching vs the Sox today.

BTW I'm not saying that Prior will flop, but has there been anyone else with greater expectations and hype than Prior? I can't think of one.

gracias! you're a life saver, DC.

Um, Beckett for one, Brien Taylor, Ben McDonald, but other than that...

The difference is maturity.

czalgosz
03-08-2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


gracias! you're a life saver, DC.

Um, Beckett for one, Brien Taylor, Ben McDonald, but other than that...

The difference is maturity.

I, for one, hope that Prior does well, mainly because a consistent top-flight pitcher hasn't come along in a long time. God knows there are enough hitters in the league.

Vsahajpal
03-08-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I, for one, hope that Prior does well, mainly because a consistent top-flight pitcher hasn't come along in a long time. God knows there are enough hitters in the league.

I'm with you, I'd like to see Rauch make it in that same vein. It'd be nice to have the games top pitchers in each league in the same city one day (real soon I hope).

But for now, Borchard v. Prior tonight...and I'll be there.

Iwritecode
03-08-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


I'm with you, I'd like to see Rauch make it in that same vein. It'd be nice to have the games top pitchers in each league in the same city one day (real soon I hope).

But for now, Borchard v. Prior tonight...and I'll be there.

I knew that Prior was supposed to pitch today but is Rauch? That would be rather interesting.

Prior vs. Borchard and Rauch vs. Patterson(or Choi?)

I remember Patterson K'd against Rauch once last ST... :D:

Vsahajpal
03-08-2002, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


I knew that Prior was supposed to pitch today but is Rauch? That would be rather interesting.

Prior vs. Borchard and Rauch vs. Patterson(or Choi?)

I remember Patterson K'd against Rauch once last ST... :D:

I hate the Cubs, their website has the game listed at 7:05 instead of the proper 1:05 start. Of course, this means no way in hell I can make it out to Tucson in time.


I'd like to see Rauch versus Choi, but I'm more amped about a possible Prior/LTP matchup, not to mention Prior/Hurt, Prior/Mags, etc...

FarWestChicago
03-08-2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


I hate the Cubs Forsake the Dark Side, Vic. Come to the Light. We will welcome you with open arms!! :D: