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MRM
11-25-2006, 10:58 PM
go get Manny?

Sure, he's expensive and it would take a ton of talent to acquire him, and he's a head case, and...and...and...

but can you imagine?

Thome, Manny, Konerko, Crede in the middle of the order? Murderer's row would be jealous.

I don't really want Ramierz on the south side, just fun to think about what that lineup would look like.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-25-2006, 11:10 PM
Yes, the Sox would have a killer lineup, without speed and a decent leadoff hitter. Plus our OF defense would be terrible. Talk about Mackowiak all over again.

RadioheadRocks
11-25-2006, 11:31 PM
go get Manny?

Sure, he's expensive and it would take a ton of talent to acquire him, and he's a head case, and...and...and...

but can you imagine?

Thome, Manny, Konerko, Crede in the middle of the order? Murderer's row would be jealous.

I don't really want Ramierz on the south side, just fun to think about what that lineup would look like.


And the flogging continues...

:deadhorse:

BanditJimmy
11-25-2006, 11:35 PM
MRM,

didn't you start the thread about the "Angel Rumors" and saying how retarded those are and then you are proposing for us to make a run at Manny on this one?

MRM
11-26-2006, 01:36 AM
MRM,

didn't you start the thread about the "Angel Rumors" and saying how retarded those are and then you are proposing for us to make a run at Manny on this one?

Did you not read the whole thing? You know...where I said I didn't really want Manny...

This was intended as a spoof of the ridiculous rumors we see this time of year.

Domeshot17
11-26-2006, 03:43 AM
Manny would be the polar opposite to Pods. Hits for Power, OBP, OPS, Run Production, No Speed, questions about his heart and passion for the game. His glove is weak, but has an absolute missle of an arm. Pods doesnt hit for much power or OBP, depends on the year for his average, not much run production. Good with the glove, but not the arm but is always hustling and playing his butt off. If You hate Pods, you should love Manny.

This team will never be built on speed. I would honestly take Manny in a 2nd. He is a top 5 hitter in the game, and I think he would thrive playing for Ozzie even more. Plus, if you haven't noticed what he did to David Ortiz, he would most likely make Konerko a 50 home run hitter.

Get Manny, then get a SS with a clue how to hit and who can lead off, and we are looking very strong.

I guess I just dont see how People could turn down a chance to have Arod or Manny. I know everyone thinks we have all the right guys, but they didn't get it done last year. Adding 1 or 2 of the top 5 hitters in baseball doesnt weaken the team at all.

Hell, bat Manny Leadoff. You want a guy with OBP, his 400+ should do.

DumpJerry
11-26-2006, 07:34 AM
This thread makes no sence if you read the initial posting.

DaveIsHere
11-26-2006, 08:11 AM
Getting Manny would make us even more of a "All or Nothing" team. Just like last year. If we hit 5 homers we win, if we dont hit any we lose.

Though I do have to say that would be on scary middle of the order.

WizardsofOzzie
11-26-2006, 03:06 PM
Sure, hows his fastball? :rolleyes:

areilly
11-26-2006, 03:10 PM
He could bat in the #2 spot behind Ichiro.

FedEx227
11-26-2006, 03:16 PM
He could bat in the #2 spot behind Ichiro.

I'd rather he lead off.

batmanZoSo
11-26-2006, 07:28 PM
You could add Manny and Ortiz and with the same pitching we'll be looking up at Detroit again.

CLR01
11-26-2006, 11:08 PM
Yes, the Sox would have a killer lineup, without speed and a decent leadoff hitter. Plus our OF defense would be terrible. Talk about Mackowiak all over again.

I think I would rather have Mack in center.

MRM,

didn't you start the thread about the "Angel Rumors" and saying how retarded those are and then you are proposing for us to make a run at Manny on this one?


See ya in a week.

Ol' No. 2
11-27-2006, 12:34 PM
Spring training cannot come soon enough.:(:

White Sox Randy
11-27-2006, 12:55 PM
I am not a big fan of MANNY but I would take him. He's a heck of lot better than what we have now.

I wouldn't give up much to get him though.

Lip Man 1
11-27-2006, 04:09 PM
According to a story on ESPN.com Ramirez could be traded by Saturday and the story goes on to say the Red Sox have to understand they are not going to get talent equal to Ramirez back.

The story says it would be something like the Sheffield deal...three minor leaguers for him.

If it wasn't for the salarty bump I could easily see the White Sox dealing three kids for him.

Lip

jenn2080
11-27-2006, 04:10 PM
go get Manny?

Sure, he's expensive and it would take a ton of talent to acquire him, and he's a head case, and...and...and...

but can you imagine?

Thome, Manny, Konerko, Crede in the middle of the order? Murderer's row would be jealous.

I don't really want Ramierz on the south side, just fun to think about what that lineup would look like.



Shhhh hold on...let me think.....one minute.....still thinking.....um yeah NOOOOOOOO. Eye on the prize we need speed.

Hangar18
11-27-2006, 04:12 PM
The SOX dont really need another hitter. We need to get some speed at the top of the lineup .........

SkeetSkeetAmit
11-27-2006, 04:23 PM
If we were to talk to the Red Sox at all for a player, I'd rather we go with Coco Crisp as long as JD Drew does sign with them and they keep Manny.

champagne030
11-27-2006, 04:28 PM
According to a story on ESPN.com Ramirez could be traded by Saturday and the story goes on to say the Red Sox have to understand they are not going to get talent equal to Ramirez back.

The story says it would be something like the Sheffield deal...three minor leaguers for him.

If it wasn't for the salarty bump I could easily see the White Sox dealing three kids for him.

Lip

3 prospects, $40M over the next two years, plus whatever Manny holds the future club hostage (tack on another year or two at $20M?) over to waive his no trade clause? PASS

And Boston better get real comfy with the idea they're not going to get jack back in the way of prospects.....It's a salary/attitude dump and everyone knows it.

box013
11-28-2006, 03:22 PM
For those who love to take rumors and run w/ them, here's one of Peter Gammons mentioning Manny to the Sox...

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=1884&line=197262&spln=1

Could it possibly follow a Crede/Garcia for Santana/Figgins deal to fill left field presuming Figgins would be the new leadoff hitter and Pods on the way out?

Ol' No. 2
11-28-2006, 03:26 PM
3 prospects, $40M over the next two years, plus whatever Manny holds the future club hostage (tack on another year or two at $20M?) over to waive his no trade clause? PASS

And Boston better get real comfy with the idea they're not going to get jack back in the way of prospects.....It's a salary/attitude dump and everyone knows it.The only way the Red Sox can get anything back is to agree to eat a significant amount of Manny's salary. Even then, they're not in an enviable negotiating position. Their hand is forced and it's not as if teams are lining up outside Theo's door.

kruzer31
11-28-2006, 04:07 PM
Rotoworld reports that good ol Pete Gammons says that Ramirez will be traded possibly and the White Sox are and option.

1.Podsednik CF
2.Iguchi 2b
3. Dye RF
4 Thome DH
5. Manny Ramirez LF
6. Konerko 1B
7. Crede 3b
8. A.J. C
9 Uribe SS

Who would we give up though? Brian Anderson and one of our 6 pitchers as well as another prospect like Sweeny or Rogowski possibly.... What do u think?

Jeff

CHIsoxNation
11-28-2006, 04:10 PM
Rotoworld reports that good ol Pete Gammons says that Ramirez will be traded possibly and the White Sox are and option.

1.Podsednik CF
2.Iguchi 2b
3. Dye RF
4 Thome DH
5. Manny Ramirez LF
6. Konerko 1B
7. Crede 3b
8. A.J. C
9 Uribe SS

Who would we give up though? Brian Anderson and one of our 6 pitchers as well as another prospect like Sweeny or Rogowski possibly.... What do u think?

Jeff


Hopefully nobody. Hitting isn't the problem.

Flight #24
11-28-2006, 04:13 PM
I'd be willing to do Garcia+Anderson, but I'd put Sweeney in CF long before I'd put Pods. Offense wasn't the primary problem, but it was part of the problem.

If you do that, then I might be convinced that Crede for Figgins & Santana would be workable. Ervin or Brandon slide to MR, Figgins can play CF (IIRC - if I'm wrong, then it's not so workable).

Fenway
11-28-2006, 04:15 PM
Gammons has been saying this for 2 weeks on WEEI. Manny really wants to play for Ozzie. The Red Sox want Brandon McCarthy included in the package.


from rotoworld.com

ESPN's Peter Gammons believes Manny Ramirez will likely be traded within the next week and says the White Sox are a possibility.

Gammons says the Red Sox want three players back for Ramirez, and though the Giants may want him more than anyone else, they probably don't have enough talent to surrender to pull the deal off. Gammons also said that he expected a J.D. Drew deal to be finalized after Saturday's arbitration deadline and that he expected a Daisuke Matsuzaka signing to get done, though probably not until the last minute.

Ol' No. 2
11-28-2006, 04:17 PM
I'd be willing to do Garcia+Anderson, but I'd put Sweeney in CF long before I'd put Pods. Offense wasn't the primary problem, but it was part of the problem.

If you do that, then I might be convinced that Crede for Figgins & Santana would be workable. Ervin or Brandon slide to MR, Figgins can play CF (IIRC - if I'm wrong, then it's not so workable).I don't think there's any way you can give up that much for Manny Ramirez unless Boston is throwing in a boatload of cash - as in half of Manny's salary.

And besides, I don't want Manny Ramirez anyway. He can't play LF worth a damn and he's a headcase that they don't need. Pass.

MarySwiss
11-28-2006, 04:18 PM
Again with this?

I'm fine with Manny being Manny--as long as he's being it somewhere else. As another poster said, hitting is not our problem.

spiffie
11-28-2006, 04:18 PM
Manny really wants to play for Ozzie.
This makes me think this could be a good idea.

The Red Sox want Brandon McCarthy included in the package.
This not so much.

spawn
11-28-2006, 04:23 PM
As with Barry Bonds...just say no to Manny. This is the same guy that quit on his team with 5 weeks to play. He's also a head case. Besides, we need a leadoff hitter, not someone to fill he 3-4-5 holes.

Flight #24
11-28-2006, 04:25 PM
I don't think there's any way you can give up that much for Manny Ramirez unless Boston is throwing in a boatload of cash - as in half of Manny's salary.

And besides, I don't want Manny Ramirez anyway. He can't play LF worth a damn and he's a headcase that they don't need. Pass.

At $17-20M/yr (depending on how you treat the deferred payments), and on a 2-yr deal, at his level of offensive production, Manny's not all that expensive. Soriano gets similar $$$ for added speed but a worse bat. JD Drew probably won't get more than $3-4M less/yr (assuming he gets $13-15M/yr). For all his antics, Manny at the plate is still one of the top 5 hitters in all of baseball.

From a sheer talent perspective, it kind of depends on what your estimate of Anderson is, because Garcia as a good pitcher but on a 1-year deal for one of the top 5 hitters in the game is IMO less value than Manny. If you think Anderson's going to be above average to star caliber as a CF, then it's a bad deal. If you think he'll be a great D / mediocre O player, it's not that bad.

All of this assumes that playing for Ozzie Manny wouldn't create as much of a stir as he has in Boston and that he's healthy. I'll trust KW & Oz to make that call. I doubt it happens, but it would be a significant upgrade to the team.

But any deal involving McCarthy is a non-starter.

Rocky Soprano
11-28-2006, 04:25 PM
Can we start banning people that repost the same stupid ****?

1917
11-28-2006, 04:26 PM
Well he was a former Indian...McCarthy is a step price, it would really detore of our future plans...remember we may very well lose Buehrle, Vasquez and Garcia next year. McCarthy is the player we want to build around

Fenway
11-28-2006, 04:28 PM
I don't think Manny would pull his crap with Ozzie. Look for all his warts he is a first ballot shoo-in for the HoF. He is one of the best pure hitters I have ever seen. His contract isn't that crazy anymore, not in this market.

Palehose13
11-28-2006, 04:29 PM
I think the Sox do need to improve on offense*, but they don't need another station-to-station hitter. I am fine in getting a hitter with some pop, but I also want said hitter to have some decent speed (go first to third) and hit for a nice average. If the Sox are to acquire a big name, I want it to be someone like Alex Rodriguez, Michael Young, or Carl Crawford not Manny or Barry.

*I also want to make clear that I think the bullpen still needs to be addressed also.

chisoxmike
11-28-2006, 04:29 PM
:chunks

1917
11-28-2006, 04:32 PM
U can't compare Manny to Barry...Barry is old and at the end of his career and covered in controversy...Manny "May be Manny" but he is still an outstanding hitter and clean......

Ol' No. 2
11-28-2006, 04:33 PM
At $17-20M/yr (depending on how you treat the deferred payments), and on a 2-yr deal, at his level of offensive production, Manny's not all that expensive. Soriano gets similar $$$ for added speed but a worse bat. JD Drew probably won't get more than $3-4M less/yr (assuming he gets $13-15M/yr). For all his antics, Manny at the plate is still one of the top 5 hitters in all of baseball.

From a sheer talent perspective, it kind of depends on what your estimate of Anderson is, because Garcia as a good pitcher but on a 1-year deal for one of the top 5 hitters in the game is IMO less value than Manny. If you think Anderson's going to be above average to star caliber as a CF, then it's a bad deal. If you think he'll be a great D / mediocre O player, it's not that bad.

All of this assumes that playing for Ozzie Manny wouldn't create as much of a stir as he has in Boston and that he's healthy. I'll trust KW & Oz to make that call. I doubt it happens, but it would be a significant upgrade to the team.

But any deal involving McCarthy is a non-starter.But to waive his NTC, Manny is going to want one or both of the team option years picked up. I don't care how badly Manny SAYS he wants out, he's not going to pass on that. So he's going to cost around $58-78M. Boston is in an awful negotiating position. They'll be lucky to get back AA level prospects without paying half Manny's salary.

Manny Ramirez:

1. is a headcase that won't stop being a headcase just because Ozzie is the manager. Ste-e-e-r-i-i-ike one!

2. is horrible in LF. He's not exposed as much playing in Fenway, but playing anywhere else he's a disaster. Ste-e-e-r-i-i-ike two!

3. quit on his team the last five weeks of the season. That's completely unforgiveable. Ste-e-e-r-i-i-ike three!!!

Palehose13
11-28-2006, 04:33 PM
U can't compare Manny to Barry...Barry is old and at the end of his career and covered in controversy...Manny "May be Manny" but he is still an outstanding hitter and clean......

But all he is good for is hitting. The Sox don't need to clog the bases with PK, Thome, Crede, AND Manny.

Hangar18
11-28-2006, 04:36 PM
But all he is good for is hitting. The Sox don't need to clog the bases with PK, Thome, Crede, AND Manny.


Maybe the SOX envision moving one of the other hitters? Thome? Crede?

spiffie
11-28-2006, 04:49 PM
Hell, let's just go totally Playstation on this and do the following!

- 3 mid-level (not McCarthy, Fields, Broadway, Sweeney) prospects for Manny. Restructure Manny's deal to remove the option years, add one more to increase total value, decrease yearly salary (net addition to payroll- 16 million)

- Crede/Garcia to Anaheim for Santana/Figgins (net savings - 11 million)

- Buehrle/Uribe (salary dump)/2 non-top prospects for Alex Rodriguez (net addition to payroll - 2 million approximately)

- DFA Podsednik (savings 2-3 million)

You end up damn near salary neutral, you've kept your core prospects and you end up with the following:

Figgins
Iguchi
Rodriguez
Ramirez
Dye
Konerko
Thome
Fields
Anderson

Rotation: Garland/Contreras/Santana/McCarthy/Vazquez

Is it unrealistic? Of course it is! But hey, if we're going to have speculation threads, let's SPECULATE DAMN IT! :D:

Flight #24
11-28-2006, 04:54 PM
But to waive his NTC, Manny is going to want one or both of the team option years picked up. I don't care how badly Manny SAYS he wants out, he's not going to pass on that. So he's going to cost around $58-78M. Boston is in an awful negotiating position. They'll be lucky to get back AA level prospects without paying half Manny's salary.

Manny Ramirez:
1. is a headcase that won't stop being a headcase just because Ozzie is the manager. Ste-e-e-r-i-i-ike one!
2. is horrible in LF. He's not exposed as much playing in Fenway, but playing anywhere else he's a disaster. Ste-e-e-r-i-i-ike two!
3. quit on his team the last five weeks of the season. That's completely unforgiveable. Ste-e-e-r-i-i-ike three!!!
Interesting debate: In the current FA market, is even a 3-yr/$60M deal for a guy for whom you can make an agrument that he's the best hitter in the game a good price? Don't compare it to Konerko or other deals, it's all about what he's worth in the current market. If JD Drew gets $14M/yr, Manny at $16 (factoring in deferred money) is an absolute steal.

The headcase argument could work, but that's kind of binary - if they make a trade, it means they think he'll be OK, and I trust their judgement on that. As for D, his bat highly outweighs his D. And IIRC, he sat the last 5 weeks with a knee injury. The worst you could say is that he didn't play through it, but for a team going nowhere, not sure I blame him. He's not known for sitting out though - 3 years prior to that he played 154-152-152 games.

The FA inflation make Manny's deal palatable, which increases the return. Which is why a 1-yr FA rental on a solid but not great pitcher and a decent prospect who's struggled some in the bigs could be the appropriate return.

But all he is good for is hitting. The Sox don't need to clog the bases with PK, Thome, Crede, AND Manny.
Unlike the rest, Manny's not prone to extended slumps. And it's hard to clog the bases when you tend to clear them pretty consistently. Manny hitting in the U SCF launching pad?:drool:

Seriously - if Figgins can play a solid SS, you could see a BA of Figgins-Iguchi-Manny-Thome-Dye-Konerko-AJ-Fields/Mackowiak-Sweeney/cheap vet and a rotation with 6 starters including Santana & McCarthy which is pretty well set through '08.

Ol' No. 2
11-28-2006, 05:18 PM
Interesting debate: In the current FA market, is even a 3-yr/$60M deal for a guy for whom you can make an agrument that he's the best hitter in the game a good price? Don't compare it to Konerko or other deals, it's all about what he's worth in the current market. If JD Drew gets $14M/yr, Manny at $16 (factoring in deferred money) is an absolute steal.

The headcase argument could work, but that's kind of binary - if they make a trade, it means they think he'll be OK, and I trust their judgement on that. As for D, his bat highly outweighs his D. And IIRC, he sat the last 5 weeks with a knee injury. The worst you could say is that he didn't play through it, but for a team going nowhere, not sure I blame him. He's not known for sitting out though - 3 years prior to that he played 154-152-152 games.

The FA inflation make Manny's deal palatable, which increases the return. Which is why a 1-yr FA rental on a solid but not great pitcher and a decent prospect who's struggled some in the bigs could be the appropriate return.


Unlike the rest, Manny's not prone to extended slumps. And it's hard to clog the bases when you tend to clear them pretty consistently. Manny hitting in the U SCF launching pad?:drool:

Seriously - if Figgins can play a solid SS, you could see a BA of Figgins-Iguchi-Manny-Thome-Dye-Konerko-AJ-Fields/Mackowiak-Sweeney/cheap vet and a rotation with 6 starters including Santana & McCarthy which is pretty well set through '08.The FA inflation argument doesn't wash. It only works if you were planning on spending that money on a FA. The Sox are not, so they'd need to cut somewhere else to have any payroll room to make other improvements. $60M is way too much for a one-dimensional player, no matter how good he is in that one dimension.

Whether he could make up in offense for his defensive liabilities depends on the team he goes to. For one desperate for some middle-of-the-order thunder, maybe, and that's a weak maybe. For a team like the Sox that already have plenty, it's not a good tradeoff. More is not necessarily better. They'd be far better off getting help at the top of the order, but the money spent on Manny probably precludes most other possibilities.

And that lineup has waaayyy too many question marks. Figgins wasn't any better than Pods last year - you're counting on him to rebound AND play SS. You're counting on Fields/Mackowiak to hold down 3B without too big of a dropoff from Crede and you're counting on Sweeney or who knows who else to handle CF. The downgrade from those three positions more than offsets any offensive gain you get from Manny, and you also have defensive downgrades at FOUR positions. I'd rather stand pat.

Goose
11-28-2006, 05:46 PM
Maybe the SOX envision moving one of the other hitters? Thome? Crede?


Can we stop the talk of the Sox bringing over Manny? If this ever happens, I will eat my shoes...and not the clean ones!

Oldschoolsoxguy
11-28-2006, 05:52 PM
If Manny comes over,and i don't think Kenny will do this anyway,then he would move one of the other big bats for some arms.Figgins can play a couple of places,but short sure as hell ain't one of 'em.The Angels would have tried it by now.

AnkleSox
11-28-2006, 06:01 PM
You end up damn near salary neutral, you've kept your core prospects and you end up with the following:

Figgins
Iguchi
Rodriguez
Ramirez
Dye
Konerko
Thome
Fields
Anderson

Rotation: Garland/Contreras/Santana/McCarthy/Vazquez

Is it unrealistic? Of course it is! But hey, if we're going to have speculation threads, let's SPECULATE DAMN IT! :D:

Think they'll score enough runs to make up for all the runs scored on passed balls, considering there's no catcher? :D:

Palehose13
11-28-2006, 06:21 PM
Think they'll score enough runs to make up for all the runs scored on passed balls, considering there's no catcher? :D:

Nice catch! Pun intended.

spiffie
11-28-2006, 06:58 PM
Think they'll score enough runs to make up for all the runs scored on passed balls, considering there's no catcher? :D:
Of course there's a catcher! Anderson should be great!

Too much moving names around, and suddenly boom, AJ's name disappears.

It would be AJP in the 8 hole, and Fields in the 9 spot. In the lineup in Crazyland.

Palehose13
11-28-2006, 07:31 PM
Of course there's a catcher! Anderson should be great!

Too much moving names around, and suddenly boom, AJ's name disappears.

It would be AJP in the 8 hole, and Fields in the 9 spot. In the lineup in Crazyland.

You come up with a team like that and you still want Brian ****ing Anderson.:kukoo: Christ go get Ichiro, man!

WizardsofOzzie
11-28-2006, 09:19 PM
Hell, let's just go totally Playstation on this and do the following!

- 3 mid-level (not McCarthy, Fields, Broadway, Sweeney) prospects for Manny. Restructure Manny's deal to remove the option years, add one more to increase total value, decrease yearly salary (net addition to payroll- 16 million)

- Crede/Garcia to Anaheim for Santana/Figgins (net savings - 11 million)

- Buehrle/Uribe (salary dump)/2 non-top prospects for Alex Rodriguez (net addition to payroll - 2 million approximately)

- DFA Podsednik (savings 2-3 million)

You end up damn near salary neutral, you've kept your core prospects and you end up with the following:

Figgins
Iguchi
Rodriguez
Ramirez
Dye
Konerko
Thome
Fields
Anderson

Rotation: Garland/Contreras/Santana/McCarthy/Vazquez

Is it unrealistic? Of course it is! But hey, if we're going to have speculation threads, let's SPECULATE DAMN IT! :D:

If Thome ends up batting 7th in my lifetime, i will **** my pants......literally :redneck