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WhiteSox5187
11-27-2006, 03:01 PM
Now, this thread is totally idle speculation, granted. But when ever my brother and I talk about people who we suspect used steroids, I notice we never mention any former (or current) White Sox players. This is, I think in no small part, because the Sox all refused to be tested in '02 so there would have to be stricter testing (before of course the Players Union threatened to break their legs). But surely there was someone. Again, this is all idle speculation. But here are some names that come to the top of my head:

Albert Belle
Jose Canseco (obviously)

I wouldn't be shocked if a guy liked James Baldwin or Jamie Navarro did either. But who do you guys think?

Nellie_Fox
11-27-2006, 03:06 PM
I think that wild speculation about Sox players in this regard is irresponsible and simply gives aid and comfort to our enemies.

WhiteSox5187
11-27-2006, 03:07 PM
I think that wild speculation about Sox players in this regard is irresponsible and simply gives aid and comfort to our enemies.
Granted it is irresponsible...bu I'm not a journalist. Just kind of curious to see what other people think....but if it gives aid and comfort to our enemies, well, then I think it should probably be closed.

Madvora
11-27-2006, 03:09 PM
Michael Morse, SS for the Mariners was a former Sox minor leaguer who got busted. He was sent over for Garcia.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/mariners/2005-09-07-morse-steroids_x.htm?csp=34

DaleJRFan
11-27-2006, 03:13 PM
EDIT: Duh, didn't see Canseco in your first post... SORRY!

WizardsofOzzie
11-27-2006, 03:13 PM
:cleo I forsee a short life for this thread

Palehose13
11-27-2006, 03:14 PM
Rios

and definitely Ozzie Guillen.

WhiteSox5187
11-27-2006, 03:14 PM
Sorry...:(:

FedEx227
11-27-2006, 03:24 PM
Brian Daubach

The Immigrant
11-27-2006, 03:29 PM
Willie Harris.

Ol' No. 2
11-27-2006, 03:40 PM
Granted it is irresponsible...bu I'm not a journalist. Just kind of curious to see what other people think....but if it gives aid and comfort to our enemies, well, then I think it should probably be closed.If it's irresponsible, why in hell did you start it?:?:

guillen4life13
11-27-2006, 04:27 PM
Considering the amount of speculation that I know we all make towards those we think to be obvious steroid users, I don't see how this thread violates anything, or if it does, such has been violated countless times before.

The only two people I can certainly say played for the Sox and almost certainly used steroids for a good part of their careers are Sosa and Canseco. Other than that, no one pops out as a suspect. Maybe Belle, but even he isn't so obvious to me.

1917
11-27-2006, 04:33 PM
I'd be lying if I didn't admit I thought Rowand may have...especially after his breakout season in 2004...but the more I read about him, the more I realized he was just a pure gym rat.....And Paulie hair loss raised my eyebrows....

ajismyhero
11-27-2006, 04:45 PM
Definitely Lance Johnson. That guy was HUGE.

DumpJerry
11-27-2006, 05:01 PM
I'd be lying if I didn't admit I thought Rowand may have...especially after his breakout season in 2004...but the more I read about him, the more I realized he was just a pure gym rat.....And Paulie hair loss raised my eyebrows....
huh :?:? Tell that to my friends who went thin or bald in their 20's without "outside help."

dickallen15
11-27-2006, 05:14 PM
There is no doubt Brandon McCarthy has steroids for breakfast lunch and dinner. His physique gives it away.

Steelrod
11-27-2006, 05:19 PM
I'd be lying if I didn't admit I thought Rowand may have...especially after his breakout season in 2004...but the more I read about him, the more I realized he was just a pure gym rat.....And Paulie hair loss raised my eyebrows....
If anybodies body isn't "cut", it's Paulie.
How about Hickey, he's got no hair!

Steelrod
11-27-2006, 05:20 PM
There is no doubt Brandon McCarthy has steroids for breakfast lunch and dinner. His physique gives it away.
Nah, he has too much hair!

Zisk77
11-27-2006, 06:34 PM
[.....And Paulie hair loss raised my eyebrows....[/quote]

Male pattern Baldness is a sex-linked and sex - influenced trait. Over 75% of men will experience some sort of baldness in their lives.
If I had to speculate on a roider it would be a certain someone who had trouble recovering from what seemed a minor knee operation. The same someone who mysteriously (before the bad knee) stopped stealing bases and running out grounders. And since testing occurred, amazingly that someone's hr production saw a dramatic decline (but to be fair the injury and playing in non hr friendly park might be the reason). But that would be just idle speculation.
The most likely abusers however are the league's utility men the do it or they wouldn't be able to keep their jobs. A friend I coached with played in the Phillies organiztion an named a few guys that he new used roids and they were all marginal players.

southside rocks
11-27-2006, 06:38 PM
There is no doubt Brandon McCarthy has steroids for breakfast lunch and dinner. His physique gives it away.

Absolutely. I blame Boone Logan for getting Brandon started.

oeo
11-27-2006, 06:42 PM
Male pattern Baldness is a sex-linked and sex - influenced trait. Over 75% of men will experience some sort of baldness in their lives.
If I had to speculate on a roider it would be a certain someone who had trouble recovering from what seemed a minor knee operation. The same someone who mysteriously (before the bad knee) stopped stealing bases and running out grounders. And since testing occurred, amazingly that someone's hr production saw a dramatic decline (but to be fair the injury and playing in non hr friendly park might be the reason). But that would be just idle speculation.
The most likely abusers however are the league's utility men the do it or they wouldn't be able to keep their jobs. A friend I coached with played in the Phillies organiztion an named a few guys that he new used roids and they were all marginal players.

I don't think Maggs ever took roids.

Over the course of the 90's, there were probably quite a few players who were on the Sox that were taking roids. They were all over the place.

eastchicagosoxfan
11-27-2006, 06:47 PM
Lamarr Hoyt would have smoked them....

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-27-2006, 07:10 PM
heres a few(some have already been stated):
Brandon McCarthy-Can he look more obvious? Jesus Christ!:o:
Pablo Ozuna
Scott Podsednik
Boone Logan

thomas35forever
11-27-2006, 07:12 PM
How long will this thread last do you think?

QCIASOXFAN
11-27-2006, 07:17 PM
I put Joey Cora right behind Canseco. I believe he had an entire chapter on him in his book.

areilly
11-27-2006, 07:53 PM
To be serious for a minute, I grew suspicious of Magglio following the knee injury. That he could be so destroyed while Willie was back in almost no time at all was one thing, then suddenly Magglio won't let anyone look at him, and then he's leaving the country to get worked on? The whole thing reeked of a cover-up. Again, I have no evidence. No proof. Just suspicion. He's never failed a drug test and never wronged me.

But I would imagine the Sox have had at least their fair share of steroid users. Baldwin? Wunsch? Bere? Koch? Rowand? Jenks? Paulie? Loaiza? We'll never know.

Brian26
11-27-2006, 08:49 PM
I'd be lying if I didn't admit I thought Rowand may have...especially after his breakout season in 2004...but the more I read about him, the more I realized he was just a pure gym rat.....And Paulie hair loss raised my eyebrows....

Geezuz, you've got to be kidding me. The Pauly comment is completely ignorant.

Brian26
11-27-2006, 08:53 PM
I'd be lying if I didn't admit I thought Rowand may have...especially after his breakout season in 2004...but the more I read about him, the more I realized he was just a pure gym rat

Rowand lifted so many weights during the 2001 offseason with Borchard that he couldnt make a throw to second base from deep center. He spent all of spring training stretching his arm out.

veeter
11-27-2006, 08:55 PM
I don't know, remember when the whole team said they'd get tested in spring training, a couple seasons back? That was a confident group. There's had to have been some Sox players, but I agree that it was probably fringe-type guys. No way Paulie has done that crap.

Brian26
11-27-2006, 09:00 PM
I don't know, remember when the whole team said they'd get tested in spring training, a couple seasons back? That was a confident group.

That ended in a hurry once the player's union got word of it.

veeter
11-27-2006, 09:03 PM
That ended in a hurry once the player's union got word of it.The Sox still really got their message across.

guillen4life13
11-28-2006, 02:09 AM
huh :?:? Tell that to my friends who went thin or bald in their 20's without "outside help."

Or me, in my teens (Rogaine is a savior... for me, but didn't work so well on my brother).

likeawarlord
11-28-2006, 02:42 AM
ray durham?

developed a power stroke, had persistent hamstring problems.

Steelrod
11-28-2006, 07:24 AM
I don't think Maggs ever took roids.

Over the course of the 90's, there were probably quite a few players who were on the Sox that were taking roids. They were all over the place.
I do!
Seems to have really slimmed down and a year and a half of injuries that were slow to heal.

oeo
11-28-2006, 08:39 AM
I do!
Seems to have really slimmed down and a year and a half of injuries that were slow to heal.

Maybe it's just me, but I think he was smaller when he was with the Sox. If anything, he has bulked up since he was with the Sox.

soxfan13
11-28-2006, 08:47 AM
My buddies and I have talked about steroids and the White Sox and I always said it would never surprise me if Carlos Lee was ever caught with steroids. Now before you start yelling im ignorant and dont no what im talking about. I am not accussing I am just saying it wouldnt surprise me.

Gregory Pratt
11-28-2006, 08:52 AM
Wilson Alvarez was a juicer. That's been written about all over the place. I believe Canseco, specifically, wrote about him.

I'm about 100% certain Rowand was. Just because he's a gym rat doesn't
mean he isn't also a juicer.

A friend of mine with family in Sox Radio told me that Koch WAS a juicer. I believe Maggs was on the juice. But that's about it, offhand.

Ozzie Guillen as a juicer? Ha! It's not impossible, but I thought juicing was supposed to make your batting better?

oeo
11-28-2006, 08:54 AM
My buddies and I have talked about steroids and the White Sox and I always said it would never surprise me if Carlos Lee was ever caught with steroids. Now before you start yelling im ignorant and dont no what im talking about. I am not accussing I am just saying it wouldnt surprise me.

He's just a ****ing fat ass.

soxfan13
11-28-2006, 08:55 AM
He's just a ****ing fat ass.

:kneeslap: :kneeslap:

soxfan13
11-28-2006, 08:57 AM
Wilson Alvarez was a juicer. That's been written about all over the place. I believe Canseco, specifically, wrote about him.

I'm about 100% certain Rowand was. Just because he's a gym rat doesn't
mean he isn't also a juicer.

A friend of mine with family in Sox Radio told me that Koch WAS a juicer. I believe Maggs was on the juice. But that's about it, offhand.

Ozzie Guillen as a juicer? Ha! It's not impossible, but I thought juicing was supposed to make your batting better?

ANy links or quotes?

Blob
11-28-2006, 10:39 AM
I think that wild speculation about Sox players in this regard is irresponsible and simply gives aid and comfort to our enemies.

Well said!

SOXintheBURGH
11-28-2006, 10:51 AM
Rowand was definitely on the junk.

At the risk of sounding like a complete tool, I actually did sit next to one of the Marlins top scouts at a Bucs game and we talked about all kinds of things. I asked him if he could confirm and Sox players.. Rowand left his lips immediately.

Sox Fan 35
11-28-2006, 01:08 PM
Rowand was definitely on the junk.

At the risk of sounding like a complete tool, I actually did sit next to one of the Marlins top scouts at a Bucs game and we talked about all kinds of things. I asked him if he could confirm and Sox players.. Rowand left his lips immediately.

Then it must be true.:rolleyes:

kevin57
11-28-2006, 06:26 PM
Since we're only speculating (rumor mongering), I too suspect Rowand. Canseco is an admitted juicer. Others? No name that leaps to my mind.

Gregory Pratt
11-28-2006, 06:29 PM
ANy links or quotes?

Reportedly Used: Steroids (Non-specific), hGH
The Story: In Juiced, Jose Canseco claims to have educated and personally injected Alvarez with steroids. Canseco claims Alvarez wanted to lose weight and so he put him on human growth hormone (hGH) and a ‘lean cycle of steroids.’

RKMeibalane
11-28-2006, 07:01 PM
If it's irresponsible, why in hell did you start it?:?:

What bothers me is that he doesn't have his facts straight. It was Spring Training of 2003 when Sox players refused to be tested.

CLR01
11-28-2006, 07:45 PM
I don't know, remember when the whole team said they'd get tested in spring training, a couple seasons back? That was a confident group. There's had to have been some Sox players, but I agree that it was probably fringe-type guys. No way Paulie has done that crap.

IIRC, wasn't it only like 8 of them?

Rowand was definitely on the junk.

At the risk of sounding like a complete tool, I actually did sit next to one of the Marlins top scouts at a Bucs game and we talked about all kinds of things. I asked him if he could confirm and Sox players.. Rowand left his lips immediately.


I believe it.

JGarlandrules20
11-28-2006, 07:50 PM
IIRC, wasn't it only like 8 of them?
16. I included it in a paper I wrote about steriods a few years ago.

FedEx227
11-28-2006, 11:43 PM
Canseco claims Alvarez wanted to lose weight and so he put him on human growth hormone (hGH) and a ‘lean cycle of steroids.’

Um......... I don't think they work that way.

SoxOnTop
11-29-2006, 09:56 AM
I can't believe that no one has mentioned JD as a prospective. When a player increases their slugging pct 60 points over their career best and said player is in his 30's there has to be some speculation.

I'd like to believe that he is just finally healthy for 2 seasons in a row, but in this day an age that usually isn't the case...

Nellie_Fox
11-29-2006, 11:09 AM
Let's see, who's left on the team who can be smeared and slandered based on mere speculation?

fquaye149
11-29-2006, 11:11 AM
Let's see, who's left on the team who can be smeared and slandered based on mere speculation?

Did Sosa take steroids, Nellie?

yes or no. There's no proof, so you tell me.

CLR01
11-29-2006, 11:17 AM
Let's see, who's left on the team who can be smeared and slandered based on mere speculation?

Time to take your own advice perhaps. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1335552&postcount=4)

Where's the outrage when every other MLB player of the last 15 years is accused?

Nellie_Fox
11-29-2006, 11:37 AM
Time to take your own advice perhaps. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1335552&postcount=4)

Where's the outrage when every other MLB player of the last 15 years is accused?I'm debating with myself whether you have a point or not. You probably do, so I'll stop replying to this thread now.

I guess it's a fine line between "I don't want to see any more Frank Thomas threads" type of posts and what I have done above. I think that when people are being slandered by name, objecting to it is a little different than saying "this thread sucks."

However, hardly every other MLB player has been accused, and for quite a few of them who have been accused there is considerably more evidence than the wild speculation in some of the posts in this thread.

CLR01
11-29-2006, 11:46 AM
However, hardly every other MLB player has been accused, and for quite a few of them who have been accused there is considerably more evidence than the wild speculation in some of the posts in this thread.

For a good 90% (maybe more) of the players who have been accused of being on the juice here the evidence has been nothing more than "He's always injured", "He put on 30 pounds", "He had a jump in power numbers", etc... Not what a would call solid evidence.

chaerulez
11-29-2006, 12:15 PM
There is a former Sox player I've speculated just from body size and stats alone that I suspected was on steroids, I'm not going to say the name because I don't want to get in a debate about it. As for Frank Thomas, I don't think he ever touched the stuff.

mrfourni
11-29-2006, 12:46 PM
There is a former Sox player I've speculated just from body size and stats alone that I suspected was on steroids, I'm not going to say the name because I don't want to get in a debate about it. As for Frank Thomas, I don't think he ever touched the stuff.

I think I might be thinking of the same player

CLR01
11-29-2006, 01:00 PM
I think I might be thinking of the same player


Butter?

Ol' No. 2
11-29-2006, 01:11 PM
Let's see, who's left on the team who can be smeared and slandered based on mere speculation?Steroid speculation threads always turn into embarrasments. This one is no different.

spiffie
11-29-2006, 01:13 PM
For a good 90% (maybe more) of the players who have been accused of being on the juice here the evidence has been nothing more than "He's always injured", "He put on 30 pounds", "He had a jump in power numbers", etc... Not what a would call solid evidence.
You forgot "He played in Oakland/San Francisco" as one.

barney27
11-30-2006, 09:40 AM
Now, this thread is totally idle speculation, granted. But when ever my brother and I talk about people who we suspect used steroids, I notice we never mention any former (or current) White Sox players. This is, I think in no small part, because the Sox all refused to be tested in '02 so there would have to be stricter testing (before of course the Players Union threatened to break their legs). But surely there was someone. Again, this is all idle speculation. But here are some names that come to the top of my head:

Albert Belle
Jose Canseco (obviously)

I wouldn't be shocked if a guy liked James Baldwin or Jamie Navarro did either. But who do you guys think?
Jamie Navarro didn't look like he was on steroids, he looked like he was on an all cheeseburger diet. If you consider him a steroid user then maybe we should add Marc Hill, Kevin Hickey, Britt Burns, and Dennis Lamp to the list of heavyweight former players to be tested. How about we ask the terrible question of the possibility of Bo Jackson.

tstrike2000
11-30-2006, 09:58 AM
There is no doubt Brandon McCarthy has steroids for breakfast lunch and dinner. His physique gives it away.

Yes, to keep his massive physique I hear he sprinkles steroids on his corn flakes in the morning and if he misses them at dinner he'll make the famous Big Macseco steroid shake for dessert (In honor of McGwire and Canseco).

WhiteSox5187
11-30-2006, 10:22 AM
Jamie Navarro didn't look like he was on steroids, he looked like he was on an all cheeseburger diet. If you consider him a steroid user then maybe we should add Marc Hill, Kevin Hickey, Britt Burns, and Dennis Lamp to the list of heavyweight former players to be tested. How about we ask the terrible question of the possibility of Bo Jackson.
Here is the only reason that I left Bo Jackson off the list, a newspaper in Kansas City said "maybe Bo Jackson was a user" and Jackson threatened them with a libel suit.

No one else who has been accused has done this, I'm not sure why. Perhaps because the evidence against them is very overwhelming (ie Bonds in Game of Shadows) or perhaps such a suit would result in people digging deeper and revealing dirt on them. The Kansas City Paper issued an apology and recanted any accusation of Bo on 'roids. It just seems to me that a person who was guilty and knew that evidence could be brought against them in a libel suit, wouldn't threaten one. Now, that's not really a great legal arguement and people in here have been pointing out how there isn't a whole lot of solid evidence against ANYONE, not just Sox players, accused of using steroids. Everything in Game of Shadows would probably be dismissed in an actual court of law as hearsay, but I think we do have to use a bit of logic here. For example in 1991 Sammy Sosa weighed 175 pounds, by 1999 Sosa was up 220 pounds, and not a whole lot of fat. So, are we expected to believe that a grown man (he was 23 in '91 and most scientists say you stop growing at about 21, I however, stopped growing at age 16) put on 45 pounds of muscle in eight years naturally??? Seems awfully fishy to me.

soxfan13
11-30-2006, 11:48 AM
Here is the only reason that I left Bo Jackson off the list, a newspaper in Kansas City said "maybe Bo Jackson was a user" and Jackson threatened them with a libel suit.

No one else who has been accused has done this, I'm not sure why. Perhaps because the evidence against them is very overwhelming (ie Bonds in Game of Shadows) or perhaps such a suit would result in people digging deeper and revealing dirt on them. The Kansas City Paper issued an apology and recanted any accusation of Bo on 'roids. It just seems to me that a person who was guilty and knew that evidence could be brought against them in a libel suit, wouldn't threaten one. Now, that's not really a great legal arguement and people in here have been pointing out how there isn't a whole lot of solid evidence against ANYONE, not just Sox players, accused of using steroids. Everything in Game of Shadows would probably be dismissed in an actual court of law as hearsay, but I think we do have to use a bit of logic here. For example in 1991 Sammy Sosa weighed 175 pounds, by 1999 Sosa was up 220 pounds, and not a whole lot of fat. So, are we expected to believe that a grown man (he was 23 in '91 and most scientists say you stop growing at about 21, I however, stopped growing at age 16) put on 45 pounds of muscle in eight years naturally??? Seems awfully fishy to me.

I have always thought this. If you truly are innocent why arent these guys suing the **** out of publications accusing them. Seems to me the accusations would stop.

ewokpelts
11-30-2006, 12:37 PM
I'd be lying if I didn't admit I thought Rowand may have...especially after his breakout season in 2004...but the more I read about him, the more I realized he was just a pure gym rat.....And Paulie hair loss raised my eyebrows....um....you do know that genetically, the human race is getting balder and that paulie is over 30, an age when most men with male pattern baldness start losing big time.
my brother is 27, and he has less hair than konerko. and i have a receeding hairline

soxfan13
11-30-2006, 12:50 PM
um....you do know that genetically, the human race is getting balder and that paulie is over 30, an age when most men with male pattern baldness start losing big time.
my brother is 27, and he has less hair than konerko. and i have a receeding hairline

Baldy, baldy baldy:tongue: