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View Full Version : O's sign Danys Baez


joebro25
11-27-2006, 01:47 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677014

3 years 19 million

This offseason's crazy contracts continue, 6 mil a year for a guy with a 4.53 era is a bit steep. OTOH, O's are building a pretty solid bullpen now with Baez and Walker.

MUsoxfan
11-27-2006, 02:07 AM
6 mil a year for a guy with a 4.53 era is a bit steep. OTOH, O's are building a pretty solid bullpen now with Baez and Walker.

You just totally contradicted yourself

caulfield12
11-27-2006, 09:36 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677014

3 years 19 million

This offseason's crazy contracts continue, 6 mil a year for a guy with a 4.53 era is a bit steep. OTOH, O's are building a pretty solid bullpen now with Baez and Walker.


I can see giving this money to a young closer with upside. It just follows the line set by the Eyre and Howry contracts from last year, or Farnsworth...with the exception that these are now "set up" contracts, as Ray is the man there.

With the inconsistencies from year to year, it probably makes more sense to sign 4 "Riskes" than 2 Baezes or Jamie Walkers, because the odds are against a Jamie Walker, Cotts, Politte or Denys Reyes repeating "career high" performances the following season.

White Sox Randy
11-27-2006, 11:56 AM
I can hear the responses now from this time next year...."there's no way Kenny could have known that Jenks and MacDougal could have arm trouble and that Thornton wasn't gonna be a stud after having the first decent season of his career in 2005. What did you expect him to do ? Sign guys like Speier, Bradford, Baez etc. to big contracts ?........................................
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........yeah, so we could have a bullpen to go back to the World Series with.....yes, I expect that.

caulfield12
11-27-2006, 12:45 PM
Randy, you're living in the clouds. We're not going to have a $125-130 million payroll like the Cubs.

If you want to sign the Foulkes, Baezes and Jose Mesas (still no guarantees of performance there), then you're going to have to jettison a starting pitcher, Dye, Crede or Konerko.

You can't have EVERYTHING you want, unless you're the Yankees. And they still have question marks with their starting and relief pitching.

Woody Williams is getting $12.5 million over 2 years to be a starter. Baez is getting the same to be the primary set-up man, it doesn't make sense.

While the White Sox don't have any relief prospects, as was made visibly clear with the LH pitching tryouts in ST last year, they can go out and spend $2-3 million on three guys, like a Riske, Chad Bradford, Steve Kline. It just doesn't make any sense to go after "high returns" (coming off dominant seasons statistically) in pitchers like Jamie Walker, D. Reyes, N. Cotts or Cliff Politte when the history of relief pitchers statistically shows it to be a very imprecise science to identify which ones will perform well on a year-to-year basis.

On team outside of Minnesota has six quality relievers in all of baseball. Did they spend millions on Reyes? No. Did we spent lots of money on Thornton or Politte or Hermanson? No, nothing compared to the numbers you're seeing thrown around now. Instead of bringing 12 relievers to camp for one spot, find 2-3 really talented ones and know that at least one of them will be capable of performing at a much higher level than Haeger, Tracey or Montero.

White Sox Randy
11-27-2006, 12:59 PM
You just said the same thing I said Caulfield, albeit in a much more verbose way.

The Sox should have signed guys last year and this year . $ 2-3 mil. a year could have gotten some pretty good relievers. The point is that Kenny refused to pay that last year and thus far this year as well.

We have NO PITCHER in our bullpen making $ 3 mil. per year and you expect to go to the WORLD SERIES that way ? Please.

Chisox003
11-27-2006, 01:07 PM
You just said the same thing I said Caulfield, albeit in a much more verbose way.

The Sox should have signed guys last year and this year . $ 2-3 mil. a year could have gotten some pretty good relievers. The point is that Kenny refused to pay that last year and thus far this year as well.

We have NO PITCHER in our bullpen making $ 3 mil. per year and you expect to go to the WORLD SERIES that way ? Please.
So your "logic" is if the pitcher isn't making a fortune, he isn't dependable?

:?:

Lip Man 1
11-27-2006, 01:08 PM
Caulfield:

I agree with a lot of what you say. I'll admit I'm getting a little antsy and wish that Williams would start doing something. Perhaps he's waiting for the winter meetings.

I will say this regarding Randy's comments, there are some serious holes in the bullpen right now and the Boone Logan's of the world aren't going to solve them.

The backdrop to all this is of course the budget that Williams has been given to work with this season. I can't imagine a cut in it, given that for years the organization has said repeatedly that 'if you come, we'll spend...' Well the Sox did draw almost three million last season.

Lip

MUsoxfan
11-27-2006, 01:14 PM
We have NO PITCHER in our bullpen making $ 3 mil. per year and you expect to go to the WORLD SERIES that way ? Please.

That's possibly the most ridiculous statement I've ever read in my life. Flashes of Billy Madison coming into my head:rolleyes:

caulfield12
11-27-2006, 01:39 PM
The irony is that we went to the World Series without any expensive relievers....Jenks was a rookie, Hermanson and Takatsu, the "pricey" closers (Hermanson was still a bargain IMO) were done for all intents and purposes.

I think Marte was our most expensive reliever.

White Sox Randy
11-27-2006, 02:09 PM
Kenny's not acquiring good bullpen help was the reason that we finished in 3rd place last year.

Ozzie and Kenny have both admitted it publicly. It was very obvious, atleast to me, back in the spring that we were not going back to the WS by holding bullpen tryouts.

Kenny said that he wouldn't do that this year but, so far, he has done the same thing. This bullpen is NOT NEARLY as impressive as Minnesota's or Detroit's.

I guess some Sox fans like 3rd place finishes.

oeo
11-27-2006, 02:15 PM
Kenny's not acquiring good bullpen help was the reason that we finished in 3rd place last year.

Ozzie and Kenny have both admitted it publicly. It was very obvious, atleast to me, back in the spring that we were not going back to the WS by holding bullpen tryouts.

Kenny said that he wouldn't do that this year but, so far, he has done the same thing. This bullpen is NOT NEARLY as impressive as Minnesota's or Detroit's.

I guess some Sox fans like 3rd place finishes.

Minnesota and Detroit's bullpens remind me a lot of ours in 2005.

And, uh, the offseason isn't even close to being over. You have no idea what will happen. Everything can change in the matter of a couple of hours...so why don't you wait until March to start complaining about what Kenny hasn't done.

caulfield12
11-27-2006, 02:27 PM
Kenny's not acquiring good bullpen help was the reason that we finished in 3rd place last year.

Ozzie and Kenny have both admitted it publicly. It was very obvious, atleast to me, back in the spring that we were not going back to the WS by holding bullpen tryouts.

Kenny said that he wouldn't do that this year but, so far, he has done the same thing. This bullpen is NOT NEARLY as impressive as Minnesota's or Detroit's.

I guess some Sox fans like 3rd place finishes.

Detroit has lost Walker.

Minnesota's chances of improving are the same as the odds of the White Sox starting rotation improving their 2005 results in 2006.

Obviously, having MORE high quality arms increases the odds.

I don't think anyone expected the Tigers' bullpen to be one of their strengths coming into the season. We all felt Jenks was better than Jones (would anyone have traded Jenks for Jones?), Rodney was solid (he actually was better in 2005 than this season), but Zumaya came out of nowhere (we didn't have anyone comparable in our minor league system), Grilli is/was a White Sox castoff, Colon was an inexperienced rookie from the Braves and Walker was a career journeyman that could have been snatched up many times, like a Jason Tyner, Gary Matthews, Jr., or Denys Reyes of the Twins. And Miner was their equivalent of Haeger or Tracey at the end of the season.

Obviously, the key to that whole bullpen was Zumaya's emergence. But I defy anyone to find a prediction that the Tigers' pen would be the second best in the American League in 2006.

Zumaya could be used to put out fires in any inning, 5th through the 8th. We didn't have anyone to use in those innings to bail out our starters in the 5th and 6th....the back of the bullpen was bombed and we were out of the game before Thornton, MacDougal, Jenks and Cotts could be utilized.

fusillirob1983
11-27-2006, 05:42 PM
Zumaya could be used to put out fires in any inning, 5th through the 8th. We didn't have anyone to use in those innings to bail out our starters in the 5th and 6th....the back of the bullpen was bombed and we were out of the game before Thornton, MacDougal, Jenks and Cotts could be utilized.

Sometimes Cotts could be utilized and he made it pointless to use the other 3.

caulfield12
11-27-2006, 06:52 PM
Sometimes Cotts could be utilized and he made it pointless to use the other 3.

Well, I was referring more to the first 3 months of the season...but yes, his failure, that of Riske (to some extent) and also Politte was a huge factor in the team's psyche. When they were nails, you didn't believe another team could ever come back from a one run deficit in 2005. It felt like a 3-4 run lead, whereas 2006, almost no lead was safe (both with the Sox trailing AND leading).