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Qdiddy
11-26-2006, 11:01 PM
Man, I would love to land this guy to be our main lefty setup guy and move Thornton down to middle relief. Anyone know his contract status? or what it might take to get him??

Jenks
González
Mac
Thornton
Aardsma
Haeger

That's sick.... I hope Kenny can work his magic at the meetings.

GO SOX!

CubsfansareDRUNK
11-26-2006, 11:02 PM
I dunno, but what did it take you to get the accent on the a?

Craig Grebeck
11-26-2006, 11:11 PM
He'd cost too much. For a guy who doesn't even throw more than 60 innings a year, you don't want to overpay.

Qdiddy
11-26-2006, 11:31 PM
He'd cost too much. For a guy who doesn't even throw more than 60 innings a year, you don't want to overpay.

Wasn't he their closer last year? I think that's why he didn't pitch too many innings. I'd rather have someone throw 60 lights out innings than someone who's going to pitch 75 "ok" innings. He only gave up 2 homers all of last year.

KRS1
11-26-2006, 11:43 PM
Wasn't he their closer last year? I think that's why he didn't pitch too many innings. I'd rather have someone throw 60 lights out innings than someone who's going to pitch 75 "ok" innings. He only gave up 2 homers all of last year.

He was indeed their closer, but he was also shut down for the last five weeks last season. His elbow "tightness" would have me more than concerned about his ability to stay healthy and able to come in when needed. I do however love his stuff, Im just not keen on relying too much on his arm holding up a whole season. I think the price we may have to pay for him would be a little too much for a KW off-season type risky move.

Qdiddy
11-26-2006, 11:59 PM
He was indeed their closer, but he was also shut down for the last five weeks last season. His elbow "tightness" would have me more than concerned about his ability to stay healthy and able to come in when needed. I do however love his stuff, Im just not keen on relying too much on his arm holding up a whole season. I think the price we may have to pay for him would be a little too much for a KW off-season type risky move.

Ohh, I didn't know they shut him down at the end of the season. Tommy John? Damn...that stinks. Thanks for that info.

Do you guys think KW is going to get a lightsout reliever? or just try and find diamond in the ruff type guys?

Here's my wish list:

Shields
Lidge
González
Otsuka
Bradford
Foulke

JermaineDye05
11-27-2006, 12:09 AM
Ohh, I didn't know they shut him down at the end of the season. Tommy John? Damn...that stinks. Thanks for that info.

Do you guys think KW is going to get a lightsout reliever? or just try and find diamond in the ruff type guys?

Here's my wish list:

Shields
Lidge
González
Otsuka
Bradford
Foulke

out of that bunch I think Otsuka would be our best bet. Lidge doesn't appear to have it anymore, it'll take a hell of a lot for Gonzalez, Foulke I just don't trust anymore and I doubt the Angels are ready to give up the key to their bullpen.

UserNameBlank
11-27-2006, 04:35 AM
I don't know what it would take to land Gonzalez exactly, but I'd love for KW to do a deal that nets us him and Saloman Torres together. Maybe if KW can trade a starter (preferrably Vazquez since he seems to have to most trouble going deep into a game), and then take a piece from that return and package it with an in-house prospect he could do it. It is the Pirates though, so maybe we could get both for like, Casey Rogowski and Heath Phillips or something.

IMO, Torres is one of the most underrated pitchers in baseball. He is a former starter who has pitched at least 92 innings over the last 4 years, with a very respectable ERA the last three and a career ERA that is a bit tainted from failed experiments as a starter. He has closing experience and would give the Sox that guy they need for the 4th - 6th innings, which the lack of really hurt the Sox badly last year.

Gonzalez provides another nasty power arm from the left side. If shoulder tightness is an issue, maybe a role as lefty specialist would help reduce that a bit. One thing about Ozzie is that even though he often has bullpen management brainfarts, he never seems to overwork an injured/healing player. Maybe a stint here could do him some good.

With a pen of Jenks-Thornton-MacDougal-Gonzalez-Aardsma-Torres, the Sox would have a great shot at being one of the top 3 pens in baseball IMO. That is a list of 5 guys with major league closing experience and Aardsma who may one day be a closer himself. On top of that, it pushes Logan, Tracey, Heager, and Vazquez/Reynoso down even further, so that if an injury does occur the Sox will actually have some real depth and will not be forced to make some bad trade right away.

Again I don't know what it would take to land these guys, but there have been trade rumors around Torres a lot over the last couple years and in every one the Pirates seem to be giving him up cheaply, and the Pirates also have a history of trading young pitchers who may/may not have arm troubles for virtually nothing. If KW can swoop in and pick these guys up, I don't care if he brings back the same lineup from last year, this team will improve a ton.

UserNameBlank
11-27-2006, 04:50 AM
out of that bunch I think Otsuka would be our best bet. Lidge doesn't appear to have it anymore, it'll take a hell of a lot for Gonzalez, Foulke I just don't trust anymore and I doubt the Angels are ready to give up the key to their bullpen.

I pretty much agree but I will add one thing. I don't think the Sox need to look at picking up another one-inning righty. I think they should look at obtaining one more nasty arm from the left side and pick up a solid veteran pitcher to be an innings eater. No Charlie Heager, no knuckleballing experiment. Just get one solid, proven pitcher to rack up innings and get outs and a lefty specialist.

The only thing that will piss me off to no end would be if KW and Ozzie talk all this stuff about a dominant bullpen and then show up on opening day with names like Haeger and Logan on the team. If KW wants to build a dominant bullpen he needs to get the guys necessary to get the job done.

caulfield12
11-27-2006, 09:00 AM
Torres isn't a bad idea, but he replicates Haeger's role.

Plus, he would be available as a spot starter, but he's one of those Gary Matthews types that have finally started to find themselves at the big league level and are perhaps not overvalued.

Gonzalez would cost a lot more than Rogowski or Phillips.

Despite the Cubs/Pirates Ramirez deal, they Pirates are smart enough to get a huge return for a lefty closer with a pretty favorable contract.

It would be something like Fields or Sweeney and then a mid-level prospect to get it done. If teams are paying Denny Baez $6+ million per season to NOT close, how much would Gonzalez (healthy?) be worth on the open market?

CashMan
11-27-2006, 12:02 PM
Are we just throwing random names around? What about K-Rod, we should get him and Shields from the Angels!

SoxxoS
11-27-2006, 12:08 PM
:tealpolice:

rowand33
11-27-2006, 12:14 PM
the last thing we need is another guy that throws close to 100.

batters will get used to that if they see it for a few innings, and then those guys are worthless.

we need a different look.

Bradford is our best bet, IMO.

Mr. White Sox
11-27-2006, 06:46 PM
Shields and Otsuka would be the best targets, but they will both be extremely overpriced. Shields is one of the best-known setup men in all of baseball, he's been consistently good in a consistently good 'pen, and he doesn't have injury trouble.

Otsuka would've been a great pickup last year, but once pitchers start racking up the saves, they become less and less valuable to teams in free agency or in trades because their perceived value goes up. Saves = $$$$

We might be pretty set with our bullpen as-is, as I think KW is high on Boone Logan and Thornton. If Aardsma is able to take the place of Riske I think they're an average to above average bullpen next year when you take injury risks into account.

oeo
11-27-2006, 06:58 PM
Shields and Otsuka would be the best targets, but they will both be extremely overpriced. Shields is one of the best-known setup men in all of baseball, he's been consistently good in a consistently good 'pen, and he doesn't have injury trouble.

Otsuka would've been a great pickup last year, but once pitchers start racking up the saves, they become less and less valuable to teams in free agency or in trades because their perceived value goes up. Saves = $$$$

We might be pretty set with our bullpen as-is, as I think KW is high on Boone Logan and Thornton. If Aardsma is able to take the place of Riske I think they're an average to above average bullpen next year when you take injury risks into account.

I get the feeling that KW made his Logan comments to drive his price up. From reports, the guy has a bad attitude, and quite frankly, he's just not very good. I hope he never puts the major league uniform on again. If Kenny can pick up another good lefty, I'm happy with the pen, and I think it will succeed next year.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-27-2006, 07:05 PM
Man, I would love to land this guy to be our main lefty setup guy and move Thornton down to middle relief. Anyone know his contract status? or what it might take to get him??

Jenks
González
Mac*
Thornton
Aardsma
Haeger

That's sick.... I hope Kenny can work his magic at the meetings.

GO SOX!

One* injury-prone pitcher with an unorthodox windup, with 2 pitchers that aren't proven....yikes. :o:

champagne030
11-27-2006, 07:09 PM
Man, I would love to land this guy to be our main lefty setup guy and move Thornton down to middle relief. Anyone know his contract status? or what it might take to get him??

Jenks
González
Mac
Thornton
Aardsma
Haeger

That's sick.... I hope Kenny can work his magic at the meetings.

GO SOX!

Probably a ton. The Pirates just picked up the $3M option on Marte. They are fully aware of the value of bullpen help if they're forking out that cash for Damaso.....They may have picked it up just to deal him??? And no, I don't mean to us. :tongue:

oeo
11-27-2006, 07:12 PM
One* injury-prone pitcher with an unorthodox windup, with 2 pitchers that aren't proven....yikes. :o:

How is this any different than paying some guy a ****load of money? Bullpens are always going to have question marks going into a season. Relievers are so inconsistent that you cannot predict who will have a good bullpen and who will have a bad one. Aardsma will be this year's Thornton, and I still think Kenny will make another move, but as long as AJ learns to catch the knuckler, Haeger should be alright.

I'd rather take a chance with Aardsma and Haeger than blow a bunch of money on a ****ing relief pitcher.

caulfield12
11-27-2006, 08:54 PM
How is this any different than paying some guy a ****load of money? Bullpens are always going to have question marks going into a season. Relievers are so inconsistent that you cannot predict who will have a good bullpen and who will have a bad one. Aardsma will be this year's Thornton, and I still think Kenny will make another move, but as long as AJ learns to catch the knuckler, Haeger should be alright.

I'd rather take a chance with Aardsma and Haeger than blow a bunch of money on a ****ing relief pitcher.

It's a Catch-22. If he spends money, we cringe. If he stands pat (see the headline articles today at WSI), everyone screams, how could he go into the season with Aardsma, Haeger and Logan as the best three candidates for the last two spots in the pen, that's irresponsible in light of the 2006 bullpen failures! He has to spend money judiciously...to find his own version of Jamie Walker or D. Reyes, another Thornton in the rough.