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bigredrudy
11-24-2006, 12:55 PM
Carlos lee has agreed to a 6 year deal with the Astros.

White Sox Randy
11-24-2006, 12:56 PM
Good. Now, we can watch him pound the flubs into oblivion on a regular basis.

bigredrudy
11-24-2006, 12:57 PM
Carlos agreed to a 6 year deal with the Astros

103 screwball
11-24-2006, 01:02 PM
Good. Now, we can watch him pound the flubs into oblivion on a regular basis.

Sounds great to me!

Anyone have any opinions how this signing may affect possible trade scenarios with the Sox? Does it shake anybody loose or make some other team desparate?

havelj
11-24-2006, 01:06 PM
Astros at the Cell June 8-10.

DH?

russ99
11-24-2006, 01:15 PM
Linky (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061124&content_id=1745768&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp)

Sweet! My second favorite Sox player, who's number I put in my hat the day he came up to the bigs, has signed with my second favorite team. :D: :D:

Now all they need is a few starters.

CanBuehrleWait
11-24-2006, 01:16 PM
for the love of... 100mill over 6 years:angry: These contracts are out of control

kittle42
11-24-2006, 01:24 PM
And I get the opportunity to hold onto him for $35 in my NL roto league. Should be worth it in that bandbox.

Ol' No. 2
11-24-2006, 01:28 PM
for the love of... 100mill over 6 years:angry: These contracts are out of controlJust wait. After a couple of years of this we're going to be treated to a reprise of Selig's "26 of 30 teams are losing money" speech.

White Sox Randy
11-24-2006, 01:35 PM
for the love of... 100mill over 6 years:angry: These contracts are out of control


So, it wasn't important to extend Dye's contract. The Sox can get him or a whole bunch of other guys cheap because they don't have to pay market value because....er....well....anyway....they can can have an explosive outfield of Owens, Anderson, Sweeney or Fields.

patbooyah
11-24-2006, 01:37 PM
So, it wasn't important to extend Dye's contract. The Sox can get him or a whole bunch of other guys cheap because they don't have to pay market value because....er....well....anyway....they can can have an explosive outfield of Owens, Anderson, Sweeney or Fields.
:offtopic::hijacked: you already had your thread about this!

veeter
11-24-2006, 01:40 PM
Good. Now, we can watch him pound the flubs into oblivion on a regular basis.This guarantees 12 wins out of 19 against them. This makes me very happy.

TDog
11-24-2006, 01:42 PM
I expect Carlos Lee to be more valuable to the Astros than Soriano will be to the Cubs.

Ol' No. 2
11-24-2006, 01:45 PM
I expect Carlos Lee to be more valuable to the Astros than Soriano will be to the Cubs.Depends on how you define "valuable". The sheep will swoon over all his solo HR.

TheOldRoman
11-24-2006, 01:47 PM
Hey, No. 2? Didn't you used to have a pic of a $ being flushed down the toilet for instances just like this?
This is as bad, if not worse, than the Matthews deal. Carlos Lee is NOT a premier hitter, but he is certainly getting paid like one.

Ol' No. 2
11-24-2006, 01:48 PM
Hey, No. 2? Didn't you used to have a pic of a $ being flushed down the toilet for instances just like this?
This is as bad, if not worse, than the Matthews deal. Carlos Lee is NOT a premier hitter, but he is certainly getting paid like one.There were worse deals than this one.
http://www.waterdistrict25.com/images/animations/money_down_the_toilet_lg_nwm.gif

White Sox Randy
11-24-2006, 01:50 PM
Now, I'd love to see the Cardinals make some moves to get stronger.

How hilarious would it be if the flubbies spent $ 130 mil. on payroll to make THIS THE YEAR and the Stros and Cards keep them out of the playoffs ?

I'm laughing just typing this and thinking about Piniella blowing his stack !:D::redneck:supernana:

TheOldRoman
11-24-2006, 01:50 PM
I expect Carlos Lee to be more valuable to the Astros than Soriano will be to the Cubs.
That may be true, but both of them will be looked back upon as some of the worst contracts in MLB history. Are people still whining that A-Rod is overpaid when Soriano and Lee got the contracts they did? I wonder how much a legitimate power hitter like A-Rod, Pujols, or Hafner would get on the market this year.

TheOldRoman
11-24-2006, 01:53 PM
There were worse deals than this one.
http://www.waterdistrict25.com/images/animations/money_down_the_toilet_lg_nwm.gif
As of now, yes. However, Lee is still fat, still doesn't hustle, and will be past his prime halfway through the deal. This might come back to be Driefort bad.

Ol' No. 2
11-24-2006, 01:58 PM
As of now, yes. However, Lee is still fat, still doesn't hustle, and will be past his prime halfway through the deal. This might come back to be Driefort bad.If Soriano is worth 7/$136M, then Lee is easily worth 6/$100M. Of course, neither are. I can't wait to see what Barry Zito is going to get.:o:

This has gotten completely out of control. Owners are flush with money and are spending like there's no tomorrow. It's just a matter of time before we hear a teary speech by Bud Selig about how so many teams are losing money.

norsepalehoser
11-24-2006, 02:07 PM
That may be true, but both of them will be looked back upon as some of the worst contracts in MLB history. Are people still whining that A-Rod is overpaid when Soriano and Lee got the contracts they did? I wonder how much a legitimate power hitter like A-Rod, Pujols, or Hafner would get on the market this year.

If I were Pujols my contract demands would be no less than ownership of the team.

I would estimate around 25-30 mil a year contracts at bare minimum.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 02:08 PM
That is essentially the same deal the Cubs gave Soriano, give or take a half a million here or there, and two years less. If the Soriano deal was bad, this one is worse, as Lee is not the player that Soriano is. He doesn't run well, can't steal bases, and probably won't be as good as Soriano defensively, once Alfonso has a chance to learn how to play the outfield. At least Soriano has the tools to be a good outfielder.

SOXSINCE'70
11-24-2006, 02:29 PM
Now all they need are a few starters.

Had to correct it for you.All they need are a few starters.

Sorry.I'm a bit of a grammar nut.Anyone (including myself)
could have made that mistake.Let's see what the 'Stros do in
the pitching dept. with the off season that remains.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-24-2006, 02:30 PM
If Soriano is worth 7/$136M, then Lee is easily worth 6/$100M. Of course, neither are. I can't wait to see what Barry Zito is going to get.:o:

This has gotten completely out of control. Owners are flush with money and are spending like there's no tomorrow. It's just a matter of time before we hear a teary speech by Bud Selig about how so many teams are losing money.
Thank god our manager isn't a half-witt!:)

chisoxmike
11-24-2006, 02:31 PM
Why are people starting non-Cubs related signings in What's the Score?

SOXSINCE'70
11-24-2006, 02:32 PM
The sheep will swoon over all his solo HR.

Don't you mean "solo home runs"?? He should hit many of them
at the Urinal.I look forward to his frequent whiffs against the
Sox when the 2 teams meet. :D: :D:

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-24-2006, 02:35 PM
Why are people starting non-Cubs related signings in What's the Score?
Talking baseball?

SOXSINCE'70
11-24-2006, 02:39 PM
Just wait. After a couple of years of this we're going to be treated to a reprise of Selig's "26 of 30 teams are losing money" speech.

Why is it I can't help but believe that statement??
The owners are all following the "cry poor" path.
Like you said,give it 2 or 3 years,and that speech
will be made.:angry:

chisoxmike
11-24-2006, 02:42 PM
Talking baseball?

Thats where they should be.

CLR01
11-24-2006, 02:45 PM
That may be true, but both of them will be looked back upon as some of the worst contracts in MLB history. Are people still whining that A-Rod is overpaid when Soriano and Lee got the contracts they did? I wonder how much a legitimate power hitter like A-Rod, Pujols, or Hafner would get on the market this year.


Based on this offseason so far A-Rod is now a steal at 20 million,

soxinem1
11-24-2006, 02:55 PM
That is essentially the same deal the Cubs gave Soriano, give or take a half a million here or there, and two years less. If the Soriano deal was bad, this one is worse, as Lee is not the player that Soriano is. He doesn't run well, can't steal bases, and probably won't be as good as Soriano defensively, once Alfonso has a chance to learn how to play the outfield. At least Soriano has the tools to be a good outfielder.

I have to disagree, CLee is one of the best at stealing when it counts, as his SB % is one of the highest among active players. True, he may not steal a ton, but they always come at an opportune time.

While he's no gazelle, CLee plays the OF about as well as a big converted 3B can.

I personally don't believe any baseball player is worth a $100 million contract, but at least the 'Stros won't owe him $34 million after his 38th birthday. CLee is a premier slugger, and he was acknowledged as such.

How often do you get a slugger of his caliber who strikes out half the time as Soriano does emerge? In fact, if the cubs were smart, they should have added him with Soriano. CLee, Soriano, and Jones would have been a pretty nice OF because they would have made each other better. 100+ HR's easilly, close to if not over 300 RBI, and an agressive manager like Lou would get at least 80 SB's from that OF.

But I guess Gil Meche will be the next piece of that 'championship' puzzle.

StillMissOzzie
11-24-2006, 05:26 PM
If Soriano is worth 7/$136M, then Lee is easily worth 6/$100M. Of course, neither are. I can't wait to see what Barry Zito is going to get.:o:

This has gotten completely out of control. Owners are flush with money and are spending like there's no tomorrow. It's just a matter of time before we hear a teary speech by Bud Selig about how so many teams are losing money.

I think Soriano is 8/$135M, but I still agree. Neither is worth the price.

That second part is probably true, but it will be laughable as the ink is not yet dry on the new CBA.

I gotta agree with MUsoxfan on this one. PK got $12m/yr for 5 years, so I don't know where El Caballo gets off rejecting this offer. I read the story, but there's no indication whether he wants more $/year or another year on the deal. Good luck, C Lee, but sheesh...

Edit: Before reading this thread, I was thinking he MIGHT get 5 years/$55M, but now, who knows?
Sorry for quoting my own wisdom...I really nailed that one, didn't I?

SMO
:rolleyes:


SMO
:gulp:

MDF3530
11-24-2006, 05:44 PM
¡"El Caballo" es hurto!

Translation: Carlos Lee is stealing!

LongLiveFisk
11-24-2006, 05:57 PM
WOW...the way Carlos used to pound the ball at Wrigley, I always thought he'd end up wearing "Cubbie blue". :dunno:

jabrch
11-24-2006, 06:00 PM
The Cubs have option years on the final two years of Soriano's deal. It is 6/100 with 2 option years. It's not a terrible deal for them since they don't have to worry about the last two years if they don't want to.

MDF3530
11-24-2006, 06:06 PM
WOW...the way Carlos used to pound the ball at Wrigley, I always thought he'd end up wearing "Cubbie blue". :dunno:There'd be a problem with that-he wouldn't be facing the Cubs pitching staff.

LongLiveFisk
11-24-2006, 06:56 PM
There'd be a problem with that-he wouldn't be facing the Cubs pitching staff.

Good point.

Corlose 15
11-24-2006, 07:38 PM
The Astros also signed Woody Williams so they somewhat addressed their pitching issues.

If Carlos Lee is a decent base stealer now he won't be for long his is on his way to being way overweight. I heard someone on ESPN (I think it was ESPN motion) say that he's eating his way towards becoming a full time DH.

Also, does this offseason make Paul Konerko's contract seem extremely affordable? I mean is Carlos Lee really worth 3M more a year than PK?

FedEx227
11-24-2006, 07:45 PM
I have to disagree, CLee is one of the best at stealing when it counts, as his SB % is one of the highest among active players. True, he may not steal a ton, but they always come at an opportune time.

....um, no. Prince Fielder has a 70% success rate, if that tells you anything.

I love Carlos, still do, but god damn he is not worth 16 million a year, I could see him going 10 million a year and it being "alright" but 16 million, what a joke. I can't wait to see what Zito is going to get. 7/350 million?!

mwc44
11-24-2006, 08:24 PM
$100 Million to Carlos Lee???????? $73 Million to Aramis Ramierez??????? $50 Million to Gary Matthews??????? $44 Million to Juan Pierre????????
http://worldofwonder.net/images/susan%20powter-tm.jpg
STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!!!

TDog
11-24-2006, 08:28 PM
That may be true, but both of them will be looked back upon as some of the worst contracts in MLB history. Are people still whining that A-Rod is overpaid when Soriano and Lee got the contracts they did? I wonder how much a legitimate power hitter like A-Rod, Pujols, or Hafner would get on the market this year.


You're probably right. Both played well last season so they could hit the free-agent jackpot, and now ht otivation is gone. Neither have the reputation as "team guys." But I expect Lee to be more motivate against the Brewers, his former team, and the Cubs, covered by the same media as his former team. I don't expect Soriano to help the Cubs win.

Hitmen77
11-24-2006, 08:59 PM
The Cubs have option years on the final two years of Soriano's deal. It is 6/100 with 2 option years. It's not a terrible deal for them since they don't have to worry about the last two years if they don't want to.

I haven't heard this. Is this correct? Is there a link to this info?

soxinem1
11-24-2006, 09:31 PM
....um, no. Prince Fielder has a 70% success rate, if that tells you anything.

I love Carlos, still do, but god damn he is not worth 16 million a year, I could see him going 10 million a year and it being "alright" but 16 million, what a joke. I can't wait to see what Zito is going to get. 7/350 million?!

How's that? If Pierre and Matthews get about $10 million a year (esp. Matthews who signed a AAA contract not too long ago) for one career year and being one dimensional, why is a guy who is a consistent run producer (and better than Ordonez four years and running) who is durable not worthy of what the market is throwing out there? If the market is dictating these prices, what should he do, turn it away?

Carlos has double-figure SB totals with high success % in all but one of his full seasons, so I don't think Prince Fielder (who should be compared to Konerko, Thomas, or Thome) and CLee are fair comparisons.

Lip Man 1
11-24-2006, 09:55 PM
Soxinem1:

Lee may be a good base stealer by the numbers but I distinctly recall three times when Mr. Lee tried to steal 3rd base with the Sox, with the tying run at the plate, and was thrown out all three times.

Manager Gandhi was so pissed at him he said he was going to bench him for dumb baseball (of course the 'benching' lasted all of one game, which perhaps says more about Gandhi then Lee's baseball stupidity.)

Lip

caulfield12
11-24-2006, 10:09 PM
Ozzie hasn't been the most consistent either...with the bunting failures and his "mandatory practice" that lasted only two days and impacted about one series (against the Blue Jays) all season long.

dcb56
11-25-2006, 12:15 AM
Where was this money when Carlos Beltran was a free agent? I'd be angry if I was an Astros fan.

caulfield12
11-25-2006, 12:23 AM
Or Randy Johnson....

However, with the Cubs' moves, the Astros now counterpunching with Lee and Williams, and the Cardinals looking like the worst team in the division (where would THEY be without Pujols?), McLane must have decided to make one last attempt with the Killer B's, or what's left of them.

FedEx227
11-25-2006, 02:12 AM
Carlos has double-figure SB totals with high success % in all but one of his full seasons, so I don't think Prince Fielder (who should be compared to Konerko, Thomas, or Thome) and CLee are fair comparisons.

Because numbers can lie. Carlos is not a good basestealer.

Comparing Prince Fielder and CLee is about as fair as comparing CLee to any decent basestealer in baseball.

Tragg
11-25-2006, 08:29 AM
I talked with some of my Astros friends down here, and they aren't overly thrilled. As one put it, no one seems to want to keep the guy. Sox traded him, Brewers traded him, Rangers didn't re-sign him.

Steelrod
11-25-2006, 08:47 AM
Good guy but 100 for 6 for a two tool guy?

PaleHoseGeorge
11-25-2006, 09:38 AM
Trading Lee made sense mostly because of the salary savings. Without the savings, I doubt KW has the $$$ to sign El Duque or Iguchi. The '05 Sox don't win the title without those two guys.

Podsednik had a great year in '05, but I'm afraid the player he became in '06 is the same one he'll be in '07 and beyond. The Sox need somebody at the top of the order who can get on base... basestealing ability is strictly secondary.

I'm glad Lee is staying in the National League. We won't have to worry about him. The fact the Flubs get him 19 times makes me happy, too.
:smile:

caulfield12
11-25-2006, 09:38 AM
The Rangers are in a world of hurt, already lost 3 starters and their pitching is horrible.

Of course, some people on here rate Josh Fields as a five tool prospect...

Brian26
11-25-2006, 11:03 AM
Where was this money when Carlos Beltran was a free agent? I'd be angry if I was an Astros fan.

If I recall, the Astros had a huge offer on the table for Beltran (even more than the CLee money), but Beltran still decided to go to NYM.

Lip Man 1
11-25-2006, 11:10 AM
Caulfield:

Ozzie has already publicly proclaimed to spend more time on fundamentals this spring. That one diamond in the complex will be devoted to nothing but bunting, hit and run fundamentals and so forth.

We'll see.

Lip

jabrch
11-25-2006, 12:16 PM
I talked with some of my Astros friends down here, and they aren't overly thrilled. As one put it, no one seems to want to keep the guy. Sox traded him, Brewers traded him, Rangers didn't re-sign him.

There are lots of very good players who have been on 4 teams in 9 years. There is reason to question the signing - it's a lot of money for an NL team to spend on a guy who soon should DH. But the fact that we traded him to free up salary room, the Brewers traded him because he turned down 4/48 and Texas was unwilling to pay 6/100 when offense is not their problem is not a good reason to not be overly thrilled.

caulfield12
11-25-2006, 12:29 PM
Caulfield:

Ozzie has already publicly proclaimed to spend more time on fundamentals this spring. That one diamond in the complex will be devoted to nothing but bunting, hit and run fundamentals and so forth.

We'll see.

Lip

What's your gut instinct on Pods? The way Rogers wrote his article, it seems like a foregone conclusion he's gone, but replaced by who, nobody seems to know.

I hope to God Uribe, Anderson, Iguchi, Owens, Ozuna, Mackowiak and Sweeney are at that diamond a lot then. And Pods, if we do keep him.

thomas35forever
11-25-2006, 03:49 PM
These contracts free agents are getting are more ridiculous than ever. Sadly, players are probably going to be overvalued on a regular basis every offseason from now on. C-Lee better at least show he's worth $100 million over 6 years. Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

jabrch
11-25-2006, 03:54 PM
$100 Million to Carlos Lee???????? $73 Million to Aramis Ramierez??????? $50 Million to Gary Matthews??????? $44 Million to Juan Pierre????????
http://worldofwonder.net/images/susan%20powter-tm.jpg
STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!!!

It's not insane if you have access to the financials of MLB teams. Obviously they make enough money that they don't have a problem spending it on players salaries.

Major League Baseball is HIGHLY profitable right now. Owners have the money from all the revenues to spend. It's not like you or I are going out there and spending 136mm on a player.

Lip Man 1
11-25-2006, 08:32 PM
I agree with jabrch on his comments.

Regarding Pods, Caulfield, more and more it's looking to me that he'll be returning given the Sox not being able to (as of this writing) sign a free agent. Perhaps a trade may be forthcoming after the winter meetings but I'd bet he returns (again as of right now)

Lip

Corlose 15
11-25-2006, 08:39 PM
I agree with jabrch on his comments.

Regarding Pods, Caulfield, more and more it's looking to me that he'll be returning given the Sox not being able to (as of this writing) sign a free agent. Perhaps a trade may be forthcoming after the winter meetings but I'd bet he returns (again as of right now)

Lip

If can put up numbers similar to 2005 where he was consistently getting on base I'm fine with that. I'm just not so sure he can.

Jjav829
11-25-2006, 09:47 PM
If I recall, the Astros had a huge offer on the table for Beltran (even more than the CLee money), but Beltran still decided to go to NYM.

Right. I believe a big issue in the Beltran situation was that the Astros didn't want to include a full no-trade clause.

This will in all likelihood become a bad contract in a few years, but in the short-term, the Astros desperately needed a bat like this. They are a far better team now than they were before signing Lee.

soxinem1
11-26-2006, 08:29 AM
Where was this money when Carlos Beltran was a free agent? I'd be angry if I was an Astros fan.

They have this extra money because Bagwell, Pettite, and Clemens will have their 2006 salaries off the books and these three, esp. Bagwell, probably will not be back.

And as far as Beltran, he wasn't signed because of the same reason KC traded him. He had his eye on the Big Apple. McLane made him a more than generous offer, and he brushed it aside like an old cup of gatorade.

Same with Randy Johnson. He made it clear at the time that he wanted to be on the west coast (well, at least until Steinbrenner's mega-mega-mega millions brought him to the Yanks).

russ99
11-26-2006, 09:52 AM
Right. I believe a big issue in the Beltran situation was that the Astros didn't want to include a full no-trade clause.

This will in all likelihood become a bad contract in a few years, but in the short-term, the Astros desperately needed a bat like this. They are a far better team now than they were before signing Lee.

That's not quite correct. That was just the final excuse from the Boras/Beltran camp.

Why Scott Boras is the Devil (part 12,263):
-------------------------------------------------------

1. Waited to start Beltran negotiations until after all the big FA signings were made to increase GM desperation.

2. Lied (bald-faced) that there were 5 teams bidding against each other when there were only two.

3. Stalled Astro management from meeting him and Beltran until the week before the FA deadline, while accomodating the Mets people fully.

4. Delayed serious negotaiation until the day of the deadline and took the Astros last offer at 11:58 - 2 minutes before the deadline, then bounced it off the Mets, never calling back and letting the Astros remain in the game. This was to (yet again) increase the Mets offer.

5. Cried low-balling and the no-trade excuse when the Astros brass called them out for foul play.

Truth be told, Boras/Beltran never wanted to go to Houston, they wanted to be in the media center/endorsement capital of New York and played the Astros to force the Mets to make as large a final offer as possible. I hate both those guys. :angry: :angry:

On the other side of the story if the Astros brass sent a "take it or leave it" offer relatively early in the game then they wouldn't have been burnt so bad. I can only hope the Sox don't have to deal with any of these "evil agent" games when it comes to Crede's big deal.

Sorf of related info, there was a story that Carlos Lee was going to sign with Boras during this season, and the Astros said they'd want nothing to do with him if that were the case. Then Lee dropped the idea of Boras. Presto - Lee signs with Astros. :D: