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Pierzynski 12
11-20-2006, 02:22 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6191380

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 02:26 PM
If they give him a multi-year deal or anything close to or above $8 million per season, we're better off with Pods.

I would say the same thing about acquiring an aging Dave Roberts...no way you sign him to a 3-year deal in this crazy market. The article is speculating $9 million as the average and a five year deal. That's insane, and the White Sox will pass on that one.

ShoelessJoeS
11-20-2006, 02:36 PM
If they give him a multi-year deal or anything close to or above $8 million per season, we're better off with Pods.

I would say the same thing about acquiring an aging Dave Roberts...no way you sign him to a 3-year deal in this crazy market. The article is speculating $9 million as the average and a five year deal. That's insane, and the White Sox will pass on that one.Agree on both counts. That is too much to pay for them.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 02:41 PM
Agree on both counts. That is too much to pay for them.

That last part ($9 million/5 years) was about Pierre, but 3 years for Roberts...no way! I can't see where you'd take him over Pods when Scott would be making half of Roberts' salary. He's only been a full-time player for 2 years now, he's in his 30's, and he would be coming out of the NL to the AL.

JermaineDye05
11-20-2006, 02:43 PM
well if Pierre wants too much money and Roberts wants too many years then I really hope Kenny has something up his sleeve in a trade because I really don't feel safe having pods at the top of the order even if he's cheaper.

TDog
11-20-2006, 03:00 PM
well if Pierre wants too much money and Roberts wants too many years then I really hope Kenny has something up his sleeve in a trade because I really don't feel safe having pods at the top of the order even if he's cheaper.

Podsednik had a solid year with the Brewers before having an off year that precedied his trade to the White Sox, where he was the spark plug for a World Series champion. The Sox will probably let him go to a team that will get a good season out of him.

Better teams usually aren't the ones with the big contracts rewarding players for their achievements with other teams. Gary Sheffield ,Frank Thomas and Alfonso Soriano won't be earning their money next year or the year after etc., they earned it last year or maybe a few seasons before that. Next year's winners will be the ones with players who emerging and haven't yet hit the jackpot. Jermaine Dye fell into that category the same time as Paul Konerko and Joe Crede.

Rather than chase after overpriced and guaranteed underachieving (relative to salary) stars, the Sox need to find the next big things.

DaleJRFan
11-20-2006, 03:03 PM
:o: The free agent market is insane this year. Just insane.

Rocky Soprano
11-20-2006, 03:03 PM
Good. I don't want Pierre on the Sox.

spiffie
11-20-2006, 03:04 PM
:o: The free agent market is insane this year. Just insane.
The market is correcting upwards as teams have more to spend. The raw numbers sound crazy, but most teams have more money to spend now than they did a few years ago. Either they spend it, or buy more yachts for the owners. As a fan I'd rather it at least go to the guys who play the game. (Well, i would rather see lower ticket prices, but that won't happen, so next best thing.)

soxinem1
11-20-2006, 03:18 PM
Good. I don't want Pierre on the Sox.


Times two. Let him go to LA, they need an overpaid guy to take Dreifort's and Drew's place. Must be a cycle with them.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 03:24 PM
Podsednik had a solid year with the Brewers before having an off year that precedied his trade to the White Sox, where he was the spark plug for a World Series champion. The Sox will probably let him go to a team that will get a good season out of him.

Better teams usually aren't the ones with the big contracts rewarding players for their achievements with other teams. Gary Sheffield ,Frank Thomas and Alfonso Soriano won't be earning their money next year or the year after etc., they earned it last year or maybe a few seasons before that. Next year's winners will be the ones with players who emerging and haven't yet hit the jackpot. Jermaine Dye fell into that category the same time as Paul Konerko and Joe Crede.

Rather than chase after overpriced and guaranteed underachieving (relative to salary) stars, the Sox need to find the next big things.

What player out there is capable of 50 steals, is a proven leadoff hitter, is young (meaning you can't trade for them) and will make under $4 million next year?

the gooch
11-20-2006, 03:27 PM
The market is correcting upwards as teams have more to spend. The raw numbers sound crazy, but most teams have more money to spend now than they did a few years ago. Either they spend it, or buy more yachts for the owners. As a fan I'd rather it at least go to the guys who play the game. (Well, i would rather see lower ticket prices, but that won't happen, so next best thing.)
When do conpensatory picks disappear? Are they still around for this offseason or are they gone already? I was afraid of the changes it would bring about: higher FA salaries, more player movement, longer contracts, difficult to re-sign your own guys.

It will mix well with the way the White Sox do business, though. They traditionally haven't offered arbitration just to get the picks, a Minnesota specialty, but I fear the Yankees will become more of a powerhouse again. This puts a greater burden on small market teams because they will get nothing for the guys they develop unless they unload them to the Yankees.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 03:31 PM
Yankees will never be a power again until they fix their rotation problems, and their middle relief now is another issue.

buehrle4cy05
11-20-2006, 03:44 PM
:o: The free agent market is insane this year. Just insane.

No kidding. Look at the market two years ago when about $12 million brought us AJ Pierzynski, Dustin Hermanson, Tadahito Iguchi, and El Duque. This year, $12 million might get you Iguchi and Pierzynski.:o:

INSox56
11-20-2006, 03:45 PM
...just like we were close to trading Garland...

spiffie
11-20-2006, 03:49 PM
What player out there is capable of 50 steals, is a proven leadoff hitter, is young (meaning you can't trade for them) and will make under $4 million next year?
I don't know, but I wish we had one. Instead we have a guy who had a just barely 50% success rate on his 40 stolen bases, got on base at a crappy clip, and seems to be permanently slowed by the injury he got in late summer of 2005.

the gooch
11-20-2006, 04:17 PM
Yankees will never be a power again until they fix their rotation problems, and their middle relief now is another issue.
They will sign half the free agents on the market and still get 1st rd picks to trade for more players. I see it happening once they start trading peanuts to small market teams for their ace with 5 years MLB experience and give them a huge contract.

Vazquez didn't work out for them, they dumped Contreras too early, and Petitte's FA departure caught them by surprise. They have been strugging ever since. To say they will never be a power again is like saying a coin will never land 'tails'. With their obscene amount of resources, they will get something right eventually. Even after they have made very poor decisions the past few years, their floor is making the playoffs. When, not if, they make some good decisions, baseball will be a little less fun for a lot of people outside of New York.

Enough of my gloom and doom. Yankees Suck!

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 04:39 PM
I'll add Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright were disasters, and the Big Unit was a reach at his age as well...simply not the same pitcher. Chacon and Aaron Small went south after a Kevin Maas/Shane Spencer "rebirth." Cory Lidle is dead.

They have Wang, a faltering Randy Johnson, headcase Pavano (who they're trying to figure out how to release because of his accident in Florida) and Philip Hughes.

If the latter two pitch as well as they're capable of, they should be okay.

Bruney was a very good pick-up in the Matt Thornton "off the scrap heap" mold.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 04:40 PM
I don't know, but I wish we had one. Instead we have a guy who had a just barely 50% success rate on his 40 stolen bases, got on base at a crappy clip, and seems to be permanently slowed by the injury he got in late summer of 2005.


Sadly, KW might think the best option is Jerry Owens at this point.

Ol' No. 2
11-20-2006, 04:55 PM
I don't know, but I wish we had one. Instead we have a guy who had a just barely 50% success rate on his 40 stolen bases, got on base at a crappy clip, and seems to be permanently slowed by the injury he got in late summer of 2005.Actually, 68%, which is about 2% below the major league average. But who's counting?

spiffie
11-20-2006, 04:58 PM
Actually, 68%, which is about 2% below the major league average. But who's counting?
Obviously not me. :redface: Stupid math. I meant to say one out for every two stolen bases, and by the time it went from my brain to my hands it became 1/2. D'oh!

Of course, one could say that if the best defense of Pods is that "he's only slightly below average" that kind of says something.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Actually, 68%, which is about 2% below the major league average. But who's counting?


It just seemed like that for large parts of the season...and Ozuna was around that number, without looking at the stats.

The biggest problem is that he couldn't go when we really needed a base late in the season...stealing when they know you're going, that's a quality that's hard to find and one possessed by only about five players.

Ol' No. 2
11-20-2006, 05:05 PM
Obviously not me. :redface: Stupid math. I meant to say one out for every two stolen bases, and by the time it went from my brain to my hands it became 1/2. D'oh!

Of course, one could say that if the best defense of Pods is that "he's only slightly below average" that kind of says something.As much as it seems to be a foregone conclusion in some circles that Pods is not going to be back, I'm not so sure. I'd love to have someone better, but looking around, I don't see any good possibilities that aren't prohibitively expensive, either in dollars or trade cost.

TDog
11-20-2006, 05:54 PM
What player out there is capable of 50 steals, is a proven leadoff hitter, is young (meaning you can't trade for them) and will make under $4 million next year?

I'm not an MLB scout, but the great inexpensive leadoff hitter out there likely led off no more than 20 or 30 games in the big leagues last season.

Really, the number of steals is irrelevant. Aparicio was a league leading base stealer and struck fear in the hearts of pitchers in seasons when he stole less than 30 bases. Stealing bases for the sake of putting up numbers doesn't really help your team. Some years ago, before Sammy Sosa became an elite slugger, he was looking to put up a 30-homer, 30-steal season. He hit a drive in Wrigley that bounced off the well into the right field corner. (Wrigley is a triples park because of the wells that create bounces into the corners. Ron Santo tied with the much speedier Richie Allen for the NL triples crown in 1964.) Sosa held at second even though he clealy had a stand up triple. He stole third on the next pitch to pad his stats.

A proven leadoff htter is someone who has succeeded in the past. Going into last year, Podsednik was a proven leadoff hitter. Finding someone who will perform in the future is tthe real trick. Finding somene who helps your team win is even trickier.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 05:57 PM
Sadly, KW might think the best option is Jerry Owens at this point.

Why do you have all this man love for Jerry Owens? hes barely a 5th outfielder at this point. Luis Terrero > Jerry Owens.

Also with the market being as crazy as it is, we will get a fair return for Podsednik, 2 years of Podsednik at 3 and 5 mil is alot better than 3 years of Pierre/Roberts at 30+. If he is dealt, i expect to see Iguchi leading off and either Vizquel or Sweeney in the 2 hole.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 06:17 PM
I would rather play Jerry Owens than pay Pierre/Roberts $8-10 million per season....if the White Sox have indeed decided to go a different direction with Pods.

I liked what he brought to the team in the last month. Maybe not as a starter, but as a 4th/5th outfielder.

With Ozuna, Gload and Mackowiak...we need to move one of those guys. Luis Terrero=Julio Ramirez, minus the opportunity for Terrero to be the starter. He's "insurance" in AAA for us.

Domeshot17
11-20-2006, 06:37 PM
If Jerry Owens is leading off in left field next season, and Brian Anderson is still in center, we are going to wish we were in 3rd place. You can deal with one or the other as a 9 hitter, but both, batting back to back

excuse me while I :puking: :puking:

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 06:54 PM
I'm not sold on Anderson at this point.

KW won't ask Ozzie to start both of those guys...in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if NEITHER played for the White Sox next season.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 07:51 PM
This was being discussed at soxtalk, but with the Dodgers getting Pierre, that might make Furcal expendable, they need HR power, and we need a lead off man.

Dye and Uribe to the Dodgers for Furcal and some VERY nice prospects from that deep Dodger Farm System.

Sweeney takes over in RF.

Deal Garcia to the mets for Pelfry/Humber and Milledge.

SS Furcal S
2B Iguchi R
Dh Thome L
1B PK R
3B Crede R
C AJP L
CF Anderson R
LF Milledge R
RFSweeney L

Live with the growing pains of Sweeney, Lastings and Anderson in '07.

Sweeney Anderson Milledge would be the best defensive OF in baseball.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 07:58 PM
We can't go backwards at this point.

That would not improve the team for 2007.

That's the kind of trade we might have to make AFTER next season, but it sends the wrong message to the fans...especially in light of the Cubs' deals and Piniella signing.

That's way too much inexperience and youth in the outfield at the same time. None of those guys have proven they are everyday MLB players. We're giving up a Top 5 MVP player for that?

Our problem is not Uribe, it's pitching.

I don't think the Mets are ready to give up two quality prospects for Garcia, then turn around him and pay him $10 million.

I want no part of Furcal at $13 million per season.

Pierzynski 12
11-20-2006, 08:02 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2669903

champagne030
11-20-2006, 08:14 PM
This was being discussed at soxtalk, but with the Dodgers getting Pierre, that might make Furcal expendable, they need HR power, and we need a lead off man.

Dye and Uribe to the Dodgers for Furcal and some VERY nice prospects from that deep Dodger Farm System.

Sweeney takes over in RF.

Deal Garcia to the mets for Pelfry/Humber and Milledge.

SS Furcal S
2B Iguchi R
Dh Thome L
1B PK R
3B Crede R
C AJP L
CF Anderson R
LF Milledge R
RFSweeney L

Live with the growing pains of Sweeney, Lastings and Anderson in '07.

Sweeney Anderson Milledge would be the best defensive OF in baseball.

Yeah, great idea, but unfortunately Minaya is not a crack addict.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 08:20 PM
We can't go backwards at this point.

That would not improve the team for 2007.

That's the kind of trade we might have to make AFTER next season, but it sends the wrong message to the fans...especially in light of the Cubs' deals and Piniella signing.

That's way too much inexperience and youth in the outfield at the same time. None of those guys have proven they are everyday MLB players. We're giving up a Top 5 MVP player for that?

Our problem is not Uribe, it's pitching.

I don't think the Mets are ready to give up two guys like that for Garcia.

I want no part of Furcal at $13 million per season.

First off what message does it send to the fans? that the white sox want to be competitive for next 6+ years and don't go throw around money like a drunken sailor to stay competitive in the superior league? who cares what the cubs have done, its all hype, we've got the ring and they don't. Furcal at 2yrs 13 mil is very manageable since we're going loosing 10mil+ for a SP, 8mil for Dye, and 4mil for Uribe. Some of those doubles Furcal hit in LA would be HRs here in Chicago. Considering the price for FAs, Dye is going to get paid in '08. I'm all for moving him, we would also be getting very good prospects back from the Dodgers.

Furcal is a premier lead off man, last year with LA .300/.369/.445, 15HRs, 9 triples, 77BB/98SO, 37SB/13CS

We've seen a white sox WS championship in our lifetimes, thats more than i can say for my grandfather. If dealing Dye and a SP sets up the sox for the next 6+ years in the most competitive divsion in baseball I'm all for it. Who's to say that between Furcal, Anderson, Sweeney, and Milledge they can't equal the same production as Uribe, Pods and Dye?

Also the mets just signed Alou to a one year deal and declined Glavines option, they need veteran pitching. Adding McCarthy into our rotation makes the '07 sox a better team, I'm quite positive he could be just as good as our pitching was last year if not better.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 08:25 PM
Yeah, great idea, but unfortunately Minaya is not a crack addict.

Your right Minaya isn't a crack addict. But with the market this year, a veteran above average pitching that can give you 200+IP for 10mil, is a steal. Omar or some other GM will come around and make the deal.

goon
11-20-2006, 08:26 PM
Our problem is not Uribe, it's pitching.


agreed. i blame uribe for being lazy as much as i blame the coaches for not developing his skills at the plate, which took a dramatic turn for the better in september of the 2005 season.

i think our problem last year was pitching, not offense. granted, our offense had some holes, but our starting pitchers and bullpen were a HUGE letdown last year. the pitching was the key reason the sox didn't win the division last year.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 08:36 PM
agreed. i blame uribe for being lazy as much as i blame the coaches for not developing his skills at the plate, which took a dramatic turn for the better in september of the 2005 season.

i think our problem last year was pitching, not offense. granted, our offense had some holes, but our starting pitchers and bullpen were a HUGE letdown last year. the pitching was the key reason the sox didn't win the division last year.

I don't think our offense was that big of a problem last year. But not being able to manufacture a run killed us down the stretch(that Boston series comes to mind) or our inability to hit LHP, and a lead off man who didn't get on base, or get on base then get CS or picked off right before JD, JT and PK hit a bomb.

Furcal hits LHP very well .324 last year, that would be huge in the ALC.

I don't see how moving Dye and starting pitching is mutually exclusive. We're going to deal a starter this offseason regardless, and Ozzie does want Speed at the top.

Our BP was an issue last season that didn't shake it self out till midseason. Next year we're going into the season with a proven back end(Jenks, Macdougal, Thornton), i have faith in Aardsma and Haeger, the only real question mark is Boone, and even there i think he will be effective as a LOOGY.

I would like to see either of these two deals made.

Garcia to the mets for Humber/Pelfry and Milledge

Garcia to the yankees for Clippard and Cabrera

joebro25
11-20-2006, 08:40 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2669903

5 years 45 mil for Juan Pierre?!?!? Thats insane! the market this year is horrible,9 mil a year for a guy who does not walk and does not hit the ball outta the infield. Not to mention his little league arm. The Dodgers had this guy a year ago in Kenny Lofton at a fraction of the price. Overall, I think this deal will haunt the Dodgers for the not too distant future.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 08:58 PM
First off what message does it send to the fans? that the white sox want to be competitive for next 6+ years and don't go throw around money like a drunken sailor to stay competitive in the superior league? who cares what the cubs have done, its all hype, we've got the ring and they don't. Furcal at 2yrs 13 mil is very manageable since we're going loosing 10mil+ for a SP, 8mil for Dye, and 4mil for Uribe. Some of those doubles Furcal hit in LA would be HRs here in Chicago. Considering the price for FAs, Dye is going to get paid in '08. I'm all for moving him, we would also be getting very good prospects back from the Dodgers.

Furcal is a premier lead off man, last year with LA .300/.369/.445, 15HRs, 9 triples, 77BB/98SO, 37SB/13CS

We've seen a white sox WS championship in our lifetimes, thats more than i can say for my grandfather. If dealing Dye and a SP sets up the sox for the next 6+ years in the most competitive divsion in baseball I'm all for it. Who's to say that between Furcal, Anderson, Sweeney, and Milledge they can't equal the same production as Uribe, Pods and Dye?

Also the mets just signed Alou to a one year deal and declined Glavines option, they need veteran pitching. Adding McCarthy into our rotation makes the '07 sox a better team, I'm quite positive he could be just as good as our pitching was last year if not better.

Why would any team pick a declining Garcia over Glavine? The last time Garcia was close to an "ace" pitcher was 3-4 seasons ago.

He would be a 3/4 for the Mets, that's it. Just like he is with the White Sox.

Furcal, you're going to have to wait at least half a season for him to adjust to the best pitching in baseball in the AL Central...I don't think we can pay that type of money for "on the job training."

And you're assuming the Dodgers would want to take on Uribe, which is a big assumption. Generally, not a great idea to give up an All-Star SS for a corner outfielder.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 08:59 PM
I don't think our offense was that big of a problem last year. But not being able to manufacture a run killed us down the stretch(that Boston series comes to mind) or our inability to hit LHP, and a lead off man who didn't get on base, or get on base then get CS or picked off right before JD, JT and PK hit a bomb.

Furcal hits LHP very well .324 last year, that would be huge in the ALC.

I don't see how moving Dye and starting pitching is mutually exclusive. We're going to deal a starter this offseason regardless, and Ozzie does want Speed at the top.

Our BP was an issue last season that didn't shake it self out till midseason. Next year we're going into the season with a proven back end(Jenks, Macdougal, Thornton), i have faith in Aardsma and Haeger, the only real question mark is Boone, and even there i think he will be effective as a LOOGY.

I would like to see either of these two deals made.

Garcia to the mets for Humber/Pelfry and Milledge

Garcia to the yankees for Clippard and Cabrera

While we're at it, we might as well ask for Philip Hughes!

Lip Man 1
11-20-2006, 09:30 PM
Beautox:

Just my opinion but I think there is now real compitition between the Cubs and Sox.

The in- roads the Sox have made into the market and the Cubs fan base is staggering. The Cubs aren't going to just throw that away if they can help it....and the Sox (I hope) aren't going to fall back into the trap they created for themselves in the 80's and 90's by saying 'we don't compete against the Cubs.'

In point of fact, they do.

They compete for fans, advertising revenue, broadcast rights, media space, perception.

Given what Kenny has said in the past (and JR for that matter) about 'you show up, we'll spend...' why are some even postulating about trading off high priced players for young talent and so forth?

Why can't the Sox compete every season now that they've won a title?

As long as they can draw 2.5 to 3 million fans they should have plenty of cash to acquire talent and field compeditive clubs. But the catch is that to draw those fans you have to spend the cash and get the talent in the first place.

Trade off high priced established talent and you run the risk of starting to lose again, which means you won't draw flies to U.S. Cellular if they had three day old garbage on the warning track. In the past the Sox have tried the youngsters approach...sometimes it's worked (1990) some times it hasn't, but one thing that was drawn from those experiments was that unless the kids suddenly start winning, fans don't show up for rebuilding. (and there are exceptions even to that rule...example: 2000)

Lip

Beautox
11-20-2006, 09:32 PM
Why would any team pick a declining Garcia over Glavine? The last time Garcia was close to an "ace" pitcher was 3-4 seasons ago.

He would be a 3/4 for the Mets, that's it. Just like he is with the White Sox.

Furcal, you're going to have to wait at least half a season for him to adjust to the best pitching in baseball in the AL Central...I don't think we can pay that type of money for "on the job training."

And you're assuming the Dodgers would want to take on Uribe, which is a big assumption. Generally, not a great idea to give up an All-Star SS for a corner outfielder.

First off last season '05 definatly quaifies as an Ace(3.87ERA, 1.25WHIP) in the AL. Glavine will be 41 this upcoming season and isn't on the mets anymore.

Who do the Mets have to start the '07 season? Pedro(DL), John Maine(FA), El Duque, Oliver Perez?, Mike Pelfry? Alay Solar? Victor Zambrano?, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Garcia would definatly be there #1/2 don't kid yourself saying he would be a 3/4 on that staff; What Staff? their pitching staff is a joke.

As for Furcal coming to the ALC, hes a profeshinoal; did we have to wait for Jim Thome to adjust? that is a very weak argument.

They just signed Pirre to lead off, they don't have any SS readily aviable in their system they would have to take Uribe. Also Uribe has upside, if hes worse than he was this year you buy him out for 300K in '08 if not you keep him for 5mil. Also don't try and sell Dye short as just "a corner outfielder", Lest we forget Dye is was an allstar too, has a GG in RF, and is a WS MVP, he also just won the MLBPA's version of the MVP.

While we're at it, we might as well ask for Philip Hughes!
They're not going to deal Hughes, why do you think i didn't post that? Hughes is possibly the best pitching prospect in baseball; its a close race between him and Bailey.

Secondly Clippard is now behind Hughes, Sanchez, Betances, Chamberlin, Kennedy and Garcia, thats also not factoring in Karstens and Rasner. Tyler is expendable in a very deep yankee farm system, do a little research.

jabrch
11-20-2006, 09:36 PM
Kenny is doing the right thing. Now is the time you trade off one of your veteran SPs to move Brandon into the rotation. You do that, and you can get a guy or two who will make your team better now, and will build your rotation depth for 2 years from now. What you don't want to do is play it out with the guys we have, and then let them walk.

Billy Beane is a complete moron. But I think he was right when he proposed you are much better off trading away a player one year too early rather than one year too late.

KW keeps a 3 year board. He knows who he plans to have in positions three years off. It's a safe bet that he's managing that board, while utilizing whatever salary budget he has this year to be most competitive. That's being a smart GM.

Lip Man 1
11-20-2006, 09:46 PM
Jabrch:

I agree to the extent that this seems to be Kenny's M.O. from the past.

However with the crazy (according to some) free agent market this season and Kenny's own recent statements (i.e. about staying with his five starters and taking his chances again) I wouldn't put it past him to say 'I'm not trading anyone because no one can give me what is a fair return for an established, winning, veteran pitcher.'

Let's put it this way, I have no problems with keeping the same five guys in the rotation in 2007 and shipping McCarthy back to Charlotte where he can continue to work on and learn his craft. He's young...there's plenty of time.

Lip

Beautox
11-20-2006, 09:49 PM
Beautox:

Just my opinion but I think there is now real compitition between the Cubs and Sox.

The in- roads the Sox have made into the market and the Cubs fan base is staggering. The Cubs aren't going to just throw that away if they can help it....and the Sox (I hope) aren't going to fall back into the trap they created for themselves in the 80's and 90's by saying 'we don't compete against the Cubs.'

In point of fact, they do.

They compete for fans, advertising revenue, broadcast rights, media space, perception.

Given what Kenny has said in the past (and JR for that matter) about 'you show up, we'll spend...' why are some even postulating about trading off high priced players for young talent and so forth?

Why can't the Sox compete every season now that they've won a title?

As long as they can draw 2.5 to 3 million fans they should have plenty of cash to acquire talent and field compeditive clubs. But the catch is that to draw those fans you have to spend the cash and get the talent in the first place.

Trade off high priced established talent and you run the risk of starting to lose again, which means you won't draw flies to U.S. Celleular if they had three day old garbage on the warning track. In the past the Sox have tried the youngsters approach...sometimes it's worked (1990) some times it hasn't, but one thing that was drawn from those experiments was that unless the kids suddenly start winning, fans don't show up for rebuilding. (and there are exceptions even to that rule...example: 2000)

Lip

Lip i respect your opinion, but i stand by the fact that the cubs throwing all that money at Soriano isn't going to help them in the NLC, even if it is a joke. They need pitching and they have yet to address it. Neals name even being in the same breath as starting rotation should only further illustrate what a joke that franchise is. The Sox have "star power" Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, Joe Crede, and Furcal if he resides on the south side, not to mention MB.

The sox can still be competitive while reloading. I'd rather move Dye one year early than one year late, hes going to regress a little bit next year, not a ton, but a little, and he is going to comand alot of $ in FA in '08, I know he gave the sox a discount once, but he deserves everything coming his way, hes a class act. We need a true leadoff hitter; Furcal is that. KW has also said he is going to plug in talent from the farm when its possible, I believe Ryan is ML ready, yes he might benefit from some seasoning at AAA, but hes ready to step up and help the big club, he could very well reach his potential and become the new LH Alex Rios. Same goes for Anderson i feel that he will make great strides next year and warrant the comparison to Torii. Getting a Melky Cabrera who has the chance to be even better than Nick Markakis or Lastings Milledge and placing either in LF sets up our OF for the next 5+ years.

I feel Furcal, Anderson, Sweeney, Cabrera/Milledge could have the same production if not better than Dye Uribe and Podsednik, all the while getting us younger, cheaper and better defensively.

Moving Dye, a SP and Uribe, frees up money to lock MB and Crede long term. The same amount of people will come out next year even if we go with a youth movement in the OF.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2006, 09:57 PM
Lip, it'd be crazy to not consider all avenues in trades, especially when you realize that JD will take a large leap backward, as will Thome and Crede due to career years, decline from peak, and injuries. Sticking with a POS shortstop like Uribe would be foolish. The team isn't getting any younger, and the way the SP have performed, we might not finish above 4th next season if everyone regresses off of career years.

The Sox aren't trading for garbage, especially if we're just losing any combination of Garcia, Contreras, Uribe, and Crede. They're all replacable and the team can become younger and more fiscally efficient if KW makes the right moves.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2006, 09:59 PM
Getting a Melky Cabrera who has the chance to be even better than Nick Markakis or Lastings Milledge
Not even close. Career minor league OPS...
Cabrera .769
Milledge .860
Markakis .850

oeo
11-20-2006, 10:12 PM
Jabrch:

I agree to the extent that this seems to be Kenny's M.O. from the past.

However with the crazy (according to some) free agent market this season and Kenny's own recent statements (i.e. about staying with his five starters and taking his chances again) I wouldn't put it past him to say 'I'm not trading anyone because no one can give me what is a fair return for an established, winning, veteran pitcher.'

Let's put it this way, I have no problems with keeping the same five guys in the rotation in 2007 and shipping McCarthy back to Charlotte where he can continue to work on and learn his craft. He's young...there's plenty of time.

Lip

I would agree with this IF we had a leadoff hitter/very good bullpen. One of the starters can net a return that could get us a leadoff hitter and another bullpen guy. If Pods wasn't awful last year, and our bullpen was as good as 2005, I'd be all for keeping the rotation as is. I really don't want to get rid of anyone because I think every one of those five guys will have a big year next year. But there are other holes to be filled, which don't look like they will be through free agency.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 10:13 PM
First off last season '05 definatly quaifies as an Ace(3.87ERA, 1.25WHIP) in the AL. Glavine will be 41 this upcoming season and isn't on the mets anymore.

Who do the Mets have to start the '07 season? Pedro(DL), John Maine(FA), El Duque, Oliver Perez?, Mike Pelfry? Alay Solar? Victor Zambrano?, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Garcia would definatly be there #1/2 don't kid yourself saying he would be a 3/4 on that staff; What Staff? their pitching staff is a joke.

As for Furcal coming to the ALC, hes a profeshinoal; did we have to wait for Jim Thome to adjust? that is a very weak argument.

They just signed Pirre to lead off, they don't have any SS readily aviable in their system they would have to take Uribe. Also Uribe has upside, if hes worse than he was this year you buy him out for 300K in '08 if not you keep him for 5mil. Also don't try and sell Dye short as just "a corner outfielder", Lest we forget Dye is was an allstar too, has a GG in RF, and is a WS MVP, he also just won the MLBPA's version of the MVP.


They're not going to deal Hughes, why do you think i didn't post that? Hughes is possibly the best pitching prospect in baseball; its a close race between him and Bailey.

Secondly Clippard is now behind Hughes, Sanchez, Betances, Chamberlin, Kennedy and Garcia, thats also not factoring in Karstens and Rasner. Tyler is expendable in a very deep yankee farm system, do a little research.

Why would we want to improve what will be one of our biggest rivals for the AL Wild Card next year if we don't win the division? No thanks. Send him to the NL. He's worth more there than he is to the Yankees...where he has a better chance to be an "ace" to a pitching-poor team.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 10:15 PM
Not even close. Career minor league OPS...
Cabrera .769
Milledge .860
Markakis .850

I'm looking at ML rookie seasons.

Nick is about two years older than Melky, and Melky is a S, Nick only bats from the left side of the plate, Melky can play all 3 OF posistions well, Markakis is more suited for the Corners. Markakis also hits at Camden Yards(#17) and Melky hits at Yankee Stadium(#27) for park factors.

Markakis .291/.351/.448 16HR 2SB/0CS 43BB/72SO
Cabrera .280/.360/.391 7HR 12SB/5CS 55BB/59SO

Beautox
11-20-2006, 10:18 PM
Why would we want to improve what will be one of our biggest rivals for the AL Wild Card next year if we don't win the division? No thanks. Send him to the NL. He's worth more there than he is to the Yankees...where he has a better chance to be an "ace" to a pitching-poor team.
Your arguments keep getting weaker and weaker. Then why trade with any of the other 29 teams in MLB? We might face them in the WS, and that could come back to haunt us. Also i factored that in with the Mets, they're in the NL.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 10:21 PM
Lip i respect your opinion, but i stand by the fact that the cubs throwing all that money at Soriano isn't going to help them in the NLC, even if it is a joke. They need pitching and they have yet to address it. Neals name even being in the same breath as starting rotation should only further illustrate what a joke that franchise is. The Sox have "star power" Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, Joe Crede, and Furcal if he resides on the south side, not to mention MB.

The sox can still be competitive while reloading. I'd rather move Dye one year early than one year late, hes going to regress a little bit next year, not a ton, but a little, and he is going to comand alot of $ in FA in '08, I know he gave the sox a discount once, but he deserves everything coming his way, hes a class act. We need a true leadoff hitter; Furcal is that. KW has also said he is going to plug in talent from the farm when its possible, I believe Ryan is ML ready, yes he might benefit from some seasoning at AAA, but hes ready to step up and help the big club, he could very well reach his potential and become the new LH Alex Rios. Same goes for Anderson i feel that he will make great strides next year and warrant the comparison to Torii. Getting a Melky Cabrera who has the chance to be even better than Nick Markakis or Lastings Milledge and placing either in LF sets up our OF for the next 5+ years.

I feel Furcal, Anderson, Sweeney, Cabrera/Milledge could have the same production if not better than Dye Uribe and Podsednik, all the while getting us younger, cheaper and better defensively.

Moving Dye, a SP and Uribe, frees up money to lock MB and Crede long term. The same amount of people will come out next year even if we go with a youth movement in the OF.

I see Cabrera as a slight step up from Rowand but certainly not a clear starter or All-Star caliber player. Sweeney's not ready to hit for enough power to play a corner OF spot, and he's not good enough defensively to play CF everyday in the majors. And RF is his natural position, where Dye blocks his path...LF is Pods until we find a better leadoff hitter there or at SS.

I think Kenny is on a year-by-year approach with Crede in regards to his back. Obviously, the 2007 offseason will be the most critical to his future...unless Fields hits so well and someone gives us an unbelieveable offer at mid-season, but that's a 5-10% chance.

Who compared Brian Anderson to Torii Hunter? Andersons' stat line is closer to Joe Borchard than Hunter at this point in his career. Anderson will never be a spectacular, highlight reel type of player...and I sincerely doubt he will average 25-35 homers per season. And he definitely won't put up the stolen base numbers Torii had in late 90's with the Twins.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 10:25 PM
Your arguments keep getting weaker and weaker. Then why trade with any of the other 29 teams in MLB? We might face them in the WS, and that could come back to haunt us. Also i factored that in with the Mets, they're in the NL.

KW, who knows that the Yankees are still "the team" (along with the Red Sox), is not going to fortify their shaky rotation with Garcia....then get a marginal starting prospect and a possible 4th outfielder in Melky Cabrera.

Never in 1000 years.

The odds are 10 times higher that move could come back to haunt us...you don't trade him to the Angels, A's, Tigers, Twins, Indians, Red Sox, Yankees or Blue Jays. Not unless you improve your team for 2007 in the process.

chaerulez
11-20-2006, 10:27 PM
I see Cabrera as a slight step up from Rowand but certainly not a clear starter or All-Star caliber player. Sweeney's not ready to hit for enough power to play a corner OF spot, and he's not good enough defensively to play CF everyday in the majors. And RF is his natural position, where Dye blocks his path...LF is Pods until we find a better leadoff hitter there or at SS.

I think Kenny is on a year-by-year approach with Crede in regards to his back. Obviously, the 2007 offseason will be the most critical to his future...unless Fields hits so well and someone gives us an unbelieveable offer at mid-season, but that's a 5-10% chance.

Who compared Brian Anderson to Torii Hunter? Andersons' stat line is closer to Joe Borchard than Hunter at this point in his career. Anderson will never be a spectacular, highlight reel type of player...and I sincerely doubt he will average 25-35 homers per season. And he definitely won't put up the stolen base numbers Torii had in late 90's with the Twins.

I would say Melky is more than a slight step above Rowand. Rowand has barely any plate patience. At age 21, Melky almost drew more walks than strikeouts, which is very encouraging for a young player. And he think he is capable of hitting 20 HRs and getting 20 SBs a season as well.

Pierzynski 12
11-20-2006, 10:32 PM
Can someone fix the topic title?:gulp:

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 10:37 PM
"And he think he is capable of hitting 20 HRs and getting 20 SBs a season as well"

Yeah, but so does Brian Anderson...who would you rather have?

Capable and reality are two totally different things. Uribe is capable of hitting 30 HR's and getting 20-25 steals. Do I predict he will do that next year? No.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 10:41 PM
I see Cabrera as a slight step up from Rowand but certainly not a clear starter or All-Star caliber player. Sweeney's not ready to hit for enough power to play a corner OF spot, and he's not good enough defensively to play CF everyday in the majors. And RF is his natural position, where Dye blocks his path...LF is Pods until we find a better leadoff hitter there or at SS.

I think Kenny is on a year-by-year approach with Crede in regards to his back. Obviously, the 2007 offseason will be the most critical to his future...unless Fields hits so well and someone gives us an unbelieveable offer at mid-season, but that's a 5-10% chance.

Who compared Brian Anderson to Torii Hunter? Andersons' stat line is closer to Joe Borchard than Hunter at this point in his career. Anderson will never be a spectacular, highlight reel type of player...and I sincerely doubt he will average 25-35 homers per season. And he definitely won't put up the stolen base numbers Torii had in late 90's with the Twins.

Wow i don't know where to begin with this. Melky Cabrera at age 22 OBP .360 > Aaron Rowand at age 29 OBP .321 in the NL!, infact the only area Aaron was better than Melky is in HRs and he is hitting at Citizens Bank Park which is #7 in park factor, even better than U.S. Cellular.

Sweeney wouldn't be playing CF, he would be taking over for Dye because he got dealt for Furcal, remember? Sweeney is ready to contribute at the ML ready.

I hope Brian isn't going anywhere, and look at his stats compared to Torri's for their respective ages both at the ML and Milb level, they're very comperable, infact Brian has shown more power then Torii did. Why can't Brian steal as many bases as Torii, there is nothing in Torii's milb track record that suggested he would steal 20+ a year, and what SBs are you talking about in the late 90s? the most he ever stole was 10 in 1999, he had speed as a tool but he never translated it into a skill at the milb level, same goes for Anderson.

LF would be occupied by Cabrera or Milledge and Podsednik would get dealt, hopefully the Rockies.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 10:53 PM
Sweeney will be ready, but Anderson wasn't, was he? And Anderson was a college player with a lot more high-level experience than Sweeney...so how do you know Ryan is ready? We don't even have Winter Ball to base that on.

So, somehow he's going to skip the first years of difficulty that Crede, Rowand, Anderson, Borchard, etc., went through and put up 20 homer's and 80 RBI's? Okay. Be optimistic if you'd like.

We're not going to trade Dye with all the uncertainty surrounding Anderson and LF. He's the only known quantity we have.

You might be in love with young, toolsy players...but the only place I would like to see your OF is in a simulation game on the computer.

The odds are 50/50 that our pitching will improve, so we're going to improve offensively with that outfield because we're offsetting the dropoff in stolen bases and Dye's power with Furcal? And why wouldn't the Dodgers simply keep Lugo instead of getting Uribe back in trade?

Besides, if Rowand was playing CF in Yankee Stadium, he would win a Gold Glove and be considered the grittiest Yankee since Paul O'Neill. And, with that line-up protecting him, his OBP would be much better. Rowand had a .361 OBP two seasons ago at age 27, and Cabrera's OBP is hardly that of an entire season of statistics to validate it.

Beautox
11-20-2006, 11:01 PM
Sweeney will be ready, but Anderson wasn't, was he? And Anderson was a college player with a lot more high-level experience than Sweeney...so how do you know Ryan is ready? We don't even have Winter Ball to base that on.

So, somehow he's going to skip the first years of difficulty that Crede, Rowand, Anderson, Borchard, etc., went through and put up 20 homer's and 80 RBI's? Okay. Be optimistic if you'd like.

We're not going to trade Dye with all the uncertainty surrounding Anderson and LF. He's the only known quantity we have.

You might be in love with young, toolsy players...but the only place I would like to see your OF is in a simulation game on the computer.

The odds are 50/50 that our pitching will improve, so we're going to improve offensively with that outfield because we're offsetting the dropoff in stolen bases and Dye's power with Furcal? And why wouldn't the Dodgers simply keep Lugo instead of getting Uribe back in trade?

Maybe if you paid a little attention to, every hitter you just mentioned you would realize that each of them had a long slow swing, much like Josh Fields. Ryan has one of the prettiest swings, its short and compact, and Brian has already shown he can make adjustments at the ML level.

Did i say that Ryan would hit 20HRs in his first year? no i said i could see 15 and i also compared him to Alex Rios, further more i said that Furcal + Anderson + Sweeney + Milledge/Cabrea could equal the production of Posednik + Uribe + Dye.

First off Lugo is a FA, secondly their IF is already contested at every spot except SS, and there are more on the way, for example LaRoche.

Grzegorz
11-21-2006, 04:35 AM
Uribe is capable of hitting 30 HR's and getting 20-25 steals. Do I predict he will do that next year? No.

You don't predict it because 30 HRs & 20-25 steals really is unrealistic for Uribe.

He's not this type of player.

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 07:15 AM
Maybe if you paid a little attention to, every hitter you just mentioned you would realize that each of them had a long slow swing, much like Josh Fields. Ryan has one of the prettiest swings, its short and compact, and Brian has already shown he can make adjustments at the ML level.

Did i say that Ryan would hit 20HRs in his first year? no i said i could see 15 and i also compared him to Alex Rios, further more i said that Furcal + Anderson + Sweeney + Milledge/Cabrea could equal the production of Posednik + Uribe + Dye.

First off Lugo is a FA, secondly their IF is already contested at every spot except SS, and there are more on the way, for example LaRoche.

So, now Anderson is going to correct his "long swing" suddenly or will it take him 2-3 years the White Sox don't have to wait on him, like Rowand?

Sweeney is a 5-8 steals per season player at the MLB level, not 15-20 like Alex Rios. And I don't see Rios getting over 80 RBI's with less than 500 at-bats. Look how long it took Crede to do that.

Milledge didn't exactly light it up for the Mets last year...and he didn't get many steals at all. He might end up being like Willie Harris, speed but absolutely no ability to steal a base. You have another Anderson problem, he's neither a power or speed player.

In fact, Sweeney falls into that category right now as well. Too many question marks. Each one has at least a 50/50 chance that he would need to be replaced for non-performance before the end of the year, leading to another Rob Mackowiak fiasco I'm afraid.

If Thome or Konerko go down to injury, then there's a ton of pressure on those guys to produce offensively, pressure they didn't have until the second half of the season this past year.

35th&Florida
11-21-2006, 11:45 AM
With Juan Pierre expected to take the Dodgers for $45...who's still in the running to solve our problems in left and center? BA and Sweeny? Is Pods coming back? Your thoughts?

Madvora
11-21-2006, 11:50 AM
Still a lot of time left. The season only ended last month.
Pierre and Soriano are gone... neither were really expected to be on the White Sox next year anyway. There are two leagues full of players out there. Remember that free agents aren't the only option. They can trade for someone too if they want.
I'm not worried about anything. All the guys I want are still right where they were before (Crawford, Young etc...)

DumpJerry
11-21-2006, 12:05 PM
What problems in Center? BA has one of the best gloves and arms in MLB in Center. I'd pick him over just about anyone right now.

WizardsofOzzie
11-21-2006, 12:18 PM
What problems in Center? BA has one of the best gloves and arms in MLB in Center. I'd pick him over just about anyone right now.
:thumbsup: Its about time someone hasn't given up on BA entirely.

Palehose Pete
11-21-2006, 12:26 PM
Yes, let's not lose our heads just yet about not getting anyone for next season just because the Cubs suddenly realized that they need to shore up the faith of their fans so that the ticket-base does not shrink. In fact, as much as I would like to see a legit lead-off hitter join the Sox, I would really prefer a filthy bullpen.

Madvora
11-21-2006, 12:27 PM
What problems in Center? BA has one of the best gloves and arms in MLB in Center. I'd pick him over just about anyone right now.
Over just about anyone? Yes, he's good defensively, but you'd pick him over just about anyone?

Lip Man 1
11-21-2006, 12:33 PM
OEO:

Certainly I agree although I think you can still improve one or two bullpen spots with some of the free agents available right now on the market at a reasonable price I mean Boone Logan is NOT the answer.

Regarding lead off...more and more I'm getting the feeling Posednik is coming back and I'm also getting the feeling that Williams (again based on his own comments about not breaking something that isn't broke) may be very willing to go into 2007 with basically the same team (minus one or two smaller pieces) and take his chances.

Then if it doesn't work a dramatic change of players before 2008 with a number of trades, free agent signing, youngsters and so forth.

We'll see.

Lip

chaerulez
11-21-2006, 12:35 PM
I still don't understand the problem with giving BA another shot. We can't be like the Cubs and refuse to try and develop our own players. With that comes the growing pains. The same people that want BA now are probably the same people that wanted Crede gone after 2003 and 2004. Very similar situation, as both already had excellent defense skills but fans were not patient with their bat.

35th&Florida
11-21-2006, 12:47 PM
I love BA and I think sweeny has the potential to be a great corner outfielder too. I think we develop our talent well and we'll remain WS contenders for sometime. But in my humble opinion we need to shore up the leadoff spot and make up some ground with Pods' defense, weak arm and occasional lackluster effort on catchable balls.

I like Crawford, but does that slow down BA and Sweeneys progress toward being an everyday player? Does BA go to left?

sox230
11-21-2006, 12:50 PM
I still don't understand the problem with giving BA another shot. We can't be like the Cubs and refuse to try and develop our own players. With that comes the growing pains. The same people that want BA now are probably the same people that wanted Crede gone after 2003 and 2004. Very similar situation, as both already had excellent defense skills but fans were not patient with their bat.

That is ludicrous. You develop players so you can have inexpensive options at some positions and to have trade bait to get superstars. Developing prospects is an essential part to winning. Yes, even the Yanks have developed prospects (Jeter, Rivera and Cano to name a few). As for Pierre, why didn't we go hard after him? Even though he had an "off year" last year, he still LED THE LEAGUE in hits and had 50+ stolen bases, and unlike Pods BARELY EVER STRIKES OUT. I remember him also saying he loves Ozzie. It would also stab the Cubs a little bit. I think Matthews is overrated; he had one good year. Roberts is too old and never stays healthy. I love Crawford, but so does every team and it will take a lot.
And furthermore, DID YOU SERIOUSLY ASK WHY THE SOX CANT BE LIKE THE CUBS AND NOT DEVELOP PROSPECTS? I am truly dumbfounded. The average Sox fan IQ just went drastically down.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 12:55 PM
That is ludicrous. You develop players so you can have inexpensive options at some positions and to have trade bait to get superstars. Developing prospects is an essential part to winning. Yes, even the Yanks have developed prospects (Jeter, Rivera and Cano to name a few). As for Pierre, why didn't we go hard after him? Even though he had an "off year" last year, he still LED THE LEAGUE in hits and had 50+ stolen bases, and unlike Pods BARELY EVER STRIKES OUT. I remember him also saying he loves Ozzie. It would also stab the Cubs a little bit. I think Matthews is overrated; he had one good year. Roberts is too old and never stays healthy. I love Crawford, but so does every team and it will take a lot.
And furthermore, DID YOU SERIOUSLY ASK WHY THE SOX CANT BE LIKE THE CUBS AND NOT DEVELOP PROSPECTS? I am truly dumbfounded. The average Sox fan IQ just went drastically down.I will never understand the attraction for a guy who LED THE LEAGUE IN OUTS and BARELY EVER WALKS.

Pierre is Pods with a weaker arm.

Red Barchetta
11-21-2006, 12:56 PM
I still don't understand the problem with giving BA another shot. We can't be like the Cubs and refuse to try and develop our own players. With that comes the growing pains. The same people that want BA now are probably the same people that wanted Crede gone after 2003 and 2004. Very similar situation, as both already had excellent defense skills but fans were not patient with their bat.

I agree! If Uribe and Pods would have had good numbers, nobody would have worried about Anderson's bat last season. Meaning - he wasn't the problem.

Reading between the lines, I think Ozzie's frustration was more with BA's inability to have quality at bats, go deep in the count etc. than his actual numbers. Defensively, he's the best of the free agents. Tough spot to be a rookie replacing a fan favorite for the defending World Series Champs. Let's at least give the kid another year.

Believe me, I had a hard time warming up to Crede due to my man-love for Ventura, however he proved himself over and over the last few years.

I would much rather have us focus on SS and LF.

DumpJerry
11-21-2006, 01:09 PM
Over just about anyone? Yes, he's good defensively, but you'd pick him over just about anyone?
You read that correctly, officer. If the Sox stick with him, you'll see why in three years.

Pierzynski 12
11-21-2006, 01:18 PM
Watch KW, keep Pods around.:violin:

CLR01
11-21-2006, 01:20 PM
Another one we don't have to hear about again. This has been a great offseason so far. :supernana: :bandance: :supernana:

Pierzynski 12
11-21-2006, 01:38 PM
Another one we don't have to hear about again. This has been a great offseason so far. :supernana: :bandance: :supernana:

Yea, maybe KW can find a leadoff hitter before Christmas.

CLR01
11-21-2006, 01:41 PM
Yea, maybe KW can find a leadoff hitter before Christmas.


He can wait until St. Patrick's Day if it means not throwing a ****load of money at overrated replacements.

Pierzynski 12
11-21-2006, 01:44 PM
He can wait until St. Patrick's Day if it means not throwing a ****load of money at overrated replacements.

I smell Pods being our leadoff hitter.:moonwalk:

spiffie
11-21-2006, 01:52 PM
I smell Pods being our leadoff hitter.:moonwalk:

Is that what I smell? I thought it was this:
http://www.pca.state.mn.us/artwork/miscphotos/landfill.jpg

Same difference really.

Pierzynski 12
11-21-2006, 02:04 PM
Is that what I smell? I thought it was this:
http://www.pca.state.mn.us/artwork/miscphotos/landfill.jpg

Same difference really.

I think some of you spend too much time on google.

Jjav829
11-21-2006, 03:11 PM
I smell Pods being our leadoff hitter.:moonwalk:

And you are celebrating that? :?:

I wouldn't have minded bringing in Pierre, but not at that price. What an awful contract. I have a feeling Kenny is going hard after Chone Figgins. I think it's pretty safe to say that Dave Roberts is no longer an option, so that leaves only the trade market to find a leadoff hitter.

sox230
11-21-2006, 03:20 PM
Just what really is money? What does saving money get you? NOTHING. After the huge spike in attendance this past year, and a big raise in ticket prices next year, there is no reason why we couldnt have overpaid for some more speed. Overpaying for a player doesn't lose you games and saving money doesn't win you games. Just get the players!!!!

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 03:44 PM
Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez=$23 million

Iguchi, Hermanson, El Duque, AJ, Dye, Pods and Blum=LESS

You still prefer to spend money? It's one thing to spend it, but you have to spend it INTELLIGENTLY. Giving Roberts or Pierre $5-7 million more per season than Pods is not a good baseball decision.

Now if we were spending $15 million on Jose Reyes, that would be fine. But that's not going to happen.

PalehosePlanet
11-21-2006, 03:58 PM
9 million per year to a noodle armed singles hitter with a horrid OBP??? WOW!! This has got to be the worst signing of all time. Has a no-power or no-power potential player ever seen anything close to this? Sheesh...and people thought The Jays and were morons for the AJ Burnett deal.

Did I mention that Pierre only turned it on the last two years AFTER his team was long out of contention and the pressure was off?

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 07:41 PM
Or that poor Kenny Lofton keeps on putting up very decent seasons for a player his age and he's always displaced. Maybe he is a clubhouse cancer...but why keep giving him chance after chance? And where's Marquis de Sade Grissom when you need him?

soxinem1
11-21-2006, 09:36 PM
9 million per year to a noodle armed singles hitter with a horrid OBP??? WOW!! This has got to be the worst signing of all time. Has a no-power or no-power potential player ever seen anything close to this? Sheesh...and people thought The Jays and were morons for the AJ Burnett deal.

Did I mention that Pierre only turned it on the last two years AFTER his team was long out of contention and the pressure was off?

They needed a ridiculous contract to follow the great traditions of Todd Hundley, Gary Sheffield, Darren Dreifort, Kevin Brown, Carlos Perez, Andy Ashby, and J.D. Drew.

Pierre fits the bill, and the tradition, VERY nicely!!

Brian26
11-21-2006, 10:03 PM
And you are celebrating that?

But you miss the most important fact. 2007 is an odd-numbered year, so Pods is due to steal about 60 bases and bat .295.

We'll just have to remember to get rid of him before '08.

jenn2080
11-21-2006, 10:07 PM
But you miss the most important fact. 2007 is an odd-numbered year, so Pods is due to steal about 60 bases and bat .295.

We'll just have to remember to get rid of him before '08.


:rolling:

Ziggy S
11-21-2006, 10:25 PM
Hey, don't laugh Jenn; that might come close to being true. Who the heck knows? However, if Lofton is a free agent, I don't know why we don't just sign him again and put the guy in LF. If he's not a FA, make a trade; we won't have to give up much if anything.

TaylorStSox
11-22-2006, 12:07 AM
OEO:

Certainly I agree although I think you can still improve one or two bullpen spots with some of the free agents available right now on the market at a reasonable price I mean Boone Logan is NOT the answer.

Regarding lead off...more and more I'm getting the feeling Posednik is coming back and I'm also getting the feeling that Williams (again based on his own comments about not breaking something that isn't broke) may be very willing to go into 2007 with basically the same team (minus one or two smaller pieces) and take his chances.

Then if it doesn't work a dramatic change of players before 2008 with a number of trades, free agent signing, youngsters and so forth.

We'll see.

Lip


I really can't see it. Honestly, we weren't even as good as our record last year. Outside of dominating the NL, we were pretty mediocre. The only 2 starters that I have any real confidence in are JG and JC. I believe KW would rather take his chances with a little shake up. If we wait until 08 to make a few moves, we lose nearly all of our leverage. If we stand pat, we're in deep trouble for the years beyond 08.

mcp5185
11-22-2006, 01:21 AM
This was being discussed at soxtalk, but with the Dodgers getting Pierre, that might make Furcal expendable, they need HR power, and we need a lead off man.

Dye and Uribe to the Dodgers for Furcal and some VERY nice prospects from that deep Dodger Farm System.

Sweeney takes over in RF.

Deal Garcia to the mets for Pelfry/Humber and Milledge.

SS Furcal S
2B Iguchi R
Dh Thome L
1B PK R
3B Crede R
C AJP L
CF Anderson R
LF Milledge R
RFSweeney L

Live with the growing pains of Sweeney, Lastings and Anderson in '07.

Sweeney Anderson Milledge would be the best defensive OF in baseball.

Let's say hypothetically we did trade Dye and Uribe to the Dodgers for Furcal and prospect(s), I would not trade Garcia for more prospects. I would much rather trade Garcia plus a prospect or two for Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones. Who knows if it is true if they are available or not but then we could get some power in the OF.

RF Anderson
CF Wells/Jones
LF Sweeney

IMO Anderson will put up better numbers than last year, our defense will be better in LF, and I would think Sweeney could do better in OBP and BA than Uribe. We sign Wells/Jones to an extension and it doesn't cost too much more.

Beautox
11-22-2006, 01:45 AM
Let's say hypothetically we did trade Dye and Uribe to the Dodgers for Furcal and prospect(s), I would not trade Garcia for more prospects. I would much rather trade Garcia plus a prospect or two for Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones. Who knows if it is true if they are available or not but then we could get some power in the OF.

RF Anderson
CF Wells/Jones
LF Sweeney

IMO Anderson will put up better numbers than last year, our defense will be better in LF, and I would think Sweeney could do better in OBP and BA than Uribe. We sign Wells/Jones to an extension and it doesn't cost too much more.

I understand why you would trade for a Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones, but a couple of things, Vernon Wells is going to command Beltran money, and Jones is represented by Boras, it would be a waste of resources to rent them for one year. KW is not going to commit that kind of money to a position player, esp in this market. Give it another year or two and the market will correct itself.

Anyways if Dye and Uribe are going to LA for Furcal, i would expect Broxton (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=455009) and Elbert (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Scott%20Elbert&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455092) to come back our way.

Broxton in our BP wow, talk about shut down.

Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Broxton, Aardsma, Haeger :drool:

After coming to terms with Alou, in addition to signing Jose Valentin, Orlando Hernandez and Damion Easley earlier in the week, the next move for Minaya could be trading Lastings Milledge in a package for another starting pitcher.

With Alou in left, Milledge becomes expendable, and Minaya already has talked with the White Sox about acquiring either Javier Vazquez or Freddy Garcia. link (http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spmets204984365nov20,0,6060562.story?coll=ny-sports-print)

Now that the Mets are on the verge of signing the free-agent outfielder Moises Alou to a one-year contract, they may intensify their efforts to package outfielder Lastings Milledge in a deal for a front-line starter. The Mets are enthralled with their young outfield prospects Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martínez, who they believe have more potential than Milledge, and could trade him for a pitcher, perhaps Dontrelle Willis of Florida, Jake Peavy of San Diego or Jason Jennings of Colorado. The Mets are still interested in White Sox pitchers Javier Vázquez and Freddy García, but Chicago would like one of the Mets’ top young pitchers — Mike Pelfrey or Philip Humber — in return. link (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/20/sports/baseball/20mets.html?_r=3&ref=baseball&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

First off, I'm glad to see KW is standing pat and waiting for Zito and Schmidt to land, and secondly his price is still the same. As for Garcia to the mets, your not getting traditional prospects, your getting players that can step in for '07 and beyond. Milledge is ML ready, and Pelfry and Humber could use a little more seasoning but have both made their ML debuts.

Beautox
11-22-2006, 02:16 AM
So, now Anderson is going to correct his "long swing" suddenly or will it take him 2-3 years the White Sox don't have to wait on him, like Rowand?

Sweeney is a 5-8 steals per season player at the MLB level, not 15-20 like Alex Rios. And I don't see Rios getting over 80 RBI's with less than 500 at-bats. Look how long it took Crede to do that.

Milledge didn't exactly light it up for the Mets last year...and he didn't get many steals at all. He might end up being like Willie Harris, speed but absolutely no ability to steal a base. You have another Anderson problem, he's neither a power or speed player.

In fact, Sweeney falls into that category right now as well. Too many question marks. Each one has at least a 50/50 chance that he would need to be replaced for non-performance before the end of the year, leading to another Rob Mackowiak fiasco I'm afraid.

If Thome or Konerko go down to injury, then there's a ton of pressure on those guys to produce offensively, pressure they didn't have until the second half of the season this past year.

Didn't see this, so i apologize for the delayed response.

Brian after the ASB showed he could make adjustments .313Avg for July, .296 for August in Sept/Oct he was horrid .200. Its pretty apparent he is very capable of making adjustments. For a little comparison; Mackowiak hit .250 in August and .194 in Sept/Oct, why was he out in CF? Anderson was putting up the same if not better numbers and playing GG defense.

Sweeney could very well steal more bases than that. Base stealing isn't just about speed its about technique, speed helps but its not the alpha and omega.

As for Milledge not lighting it up for the mets, not every rookie comes up and is Ryan Garko. Both Sweeney and Milledge are 21, they both have alot of talent. Milledge's speed as of now is just a raw tool that he hasn't turned into a skill(base stealing) but he could very well in the near future. Ryan & Lastings have consistently been the youngest players in their respective leagues, give them time. Also don't give up on BA, don't be like the Dodgers with PK, being a white sox fan should have taught you patience with young talent.

All players have question marks, not just young ones. No one knew for 100% that Jim Thome would tear the cover off the ball, or that Dye would have a career year, or even better that our pitching staff as a whole would regress to career worsts and that Neal and Cliff would forget how to get a batter out. You can't be afraid to play rookies, baseball is a game of failures accept it :gulp:.

And if Thome or PK go down, we will have to compinsate and play small ball, the first step to that is having a lead off man(Furcal) that gets on base(.369OBP), and once on base can successfully steal one(37SB/13CS) or better yet can knock himself in(15HR), Furcal defiantly fits that mold.

caulfield12
11-22-2006, 06:58 AM
The problem for the Dodgers is they already had Eric Karros and had detrermined Paul couldn't play 3B or C.

And they needed an outfielder...plus, there was already the obligatory 'degenerating hip' story circulating.

We need a CF. The only reason KW gives up on BA is 1) due to personality/off-field/clubhouse issues that we are not privy to, along with Ozzie, and 2) we can get a more established, high impact player back as part of a trade for one of our starters.

Remember, KW dealt Webster, Rowand, Reed and Chris Young to clear CF for Brian. I think he felt pretty strongly about the correctness of that decision.

If you want an OF like that in 2008 (and the Sox have failed to make the playoffs), I'm fine with that...but not for next season.

Beautox
11-22-2006, 08:18 AM
The problem for the Dodgers is they already had Eric Karros and had detrermined Paul couldn't play 3B or C.

And they needed an outfielder...plus, there was already the obligatory 'degenerating hip' story circulating.

We need a CF. The only reason KW gives up on BA is 1) due to personality/off-field/clubhouse issues that we are not privy to, along with Ozzie, and 2) we can get a more established, high impact player back as part of a trade for one of our starters.

Remember, KW dealt Webster, Rowand, Reed and Chris Young to clear CF for Brian. I think he felt pretty strongly about the correctness of that decision.

If you want an OF like that in 2008 (and the Sox have failed to make the playoffs), I'm fine with that...but not for next season.

I don't think the white sox need a new CFer, not when GMJ is about to get 5 years at 11mil per, no thank you. I can't even begin to fathom what Jones or Wells are going to cost next year, id rather sink that money into pitching and signing international players to bring up through our farm. I do agree that KW is in BA's corner(or at least i hope so). Dealing Dye this offseason along with one SP is a smart move, we need to make room for McCarthy, and i feel Sweeney is ready for the bigs, same with Milledge.

We also need a real lead off hitter, if we get Furcal for 2 years, Bronxton for 5, and Milledge for 6, along with an Elbert and Humber/Pelfry to restock our system, and put us in a position to fill a hole possibly left by MB or by dealing another SP(Jose after the '07 season) to address other needs.

KW and Ozzie said they want a nasty BP and more speed in the line up. Broxton makes our BP sick and adding Furcal and Milledge brings speed and balance to our line up along with youth and payroll flexability.

champagne030
11-22-2006, 08:37 AM
I understand why you would trade for a Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones, but a couple of things, Vernon Wells is going to command Beltran money, and Jones is represented by Boras, it would be a waste of resources to rent them for one year. KW is not going to commit that kind of money to a position player, esp in this market. Give it another year or two and the market will correct itself.

Anyways if Dye and Uribe are going to LA for Furcal, i would expect Broxton (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=455009) and Elbert (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Scott%20Elbert&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455092) to come back our way.

Broxton in our BP wow, talk about shut down.

Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Broxton, Aardsma, Haeger :drool:

link (http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spmets204984365nov20,0,6060562.story?coll=ny-sports-print)

link (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/20/sports/baseball/20mets.html?_r=3&ref=baseball&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

First off, I'm glad to see KW is standing pat and waiting for Zito and Schmidt to land, and secondly his price is still the same. As for Garcia to the mets, your not getting traditional prospects, your getting players that can step in for '07 and beyond. Milledge is ML ready, and Pelfry and Humber could use a little more seasoning but have both made their ML debuts.

You keep having this delusion that we'll get both Milledge and Pelfrey/Humber. There has been no rumor or hint of reality in that happening. Maybe Milledge straight up, but no chance of including one of those pitchers. At this point they won't trade Pelfrey/Humber straight up. Maybe, by playing the waiting game KW could get one of the young pitchers, but no chance of Milledge being included.

Beautox
11-22-2006, 09:07 AM
You keep having this delusion that we'll get both Milledge and Pelfrey/Humber. There has been no rumor or hint of reality in that happening. Maybe Milledge straight up, but no chance of including one of those pitchers. At this point they won't trade Pelfrey/Humber straight up. Maybe, by playing the waiting game KW could get one of the young pitchers, but no chance of Milledge being included.

Will see when Ted Lilly is getting 4 years 40mil and last time i checked I'm not the only one with these Delusions, KW is standing pat and is waiting for Zito and Schmidt to land.

The mets have no pitching rotation(El Duque,???,???,Perez, Zambrano(maybe)?), and this years crop of FA pitchers outside of Zito and Schmidt is weak, i doubt Omar wants to give Glavine 2 years 25mil, or Gil Meche 9mil per year, esp when Zambrano and others will be FAs next year.

If Gary Sheffield after coming back from wrist surgery gets 3 top pitching prospects, i expect an above average pitcher at below market value that throws 200+IP to get the same if not a better return in a pitching starved FA class and esp when Humber has just come back from TJ and Milledge has fallen out of grace in NY.

champagne030
11-22-2006, 09:28 AM
Will see when Ted Lilly is getting 4 years 40mil and last time i checked I'm not the only one with these Delusions, KW is standing pat and is waiting for Zito and Schmidt to land.

I understand what KW is doing. Maybe that plan will net him Pelfrey and a low level prospect. Who else is having these delusions?

The mets have no pitching rotation(El Duque,???,???,Perez, Zambrano(maybe)?), and this years crop of FA pitchers outside of Zito and Schmidt is weak, i doubt Omar wants to give Glavine 2 years 25mil, or Gil Meche 9mil per year, esp when Zambrano and others will be FAs next year.

And Minaya's not going to give up half his minor system for a 1 year rental. He can get something younger, cheaper and better than Garcia if he's willing to package Milledge and Pelfrey/Humphrey.

If Gary Sheffield after coming back from wrist surgery gets 3 top pitching prospects, i expect an above average pitcher at below market value that throws 200+IP to get the same if not a better return in a pitching starved FA class and esp when Humber has just come back from TJ and Milledge has fallen out of grace in NY.

Humber and Sanchez are about equal prospects. Milledge is 10X the prospects that Detroit threw in to get Sheffield. Not to mention that Sheffield isn't a 1 year rental.

caulfield12
11-22-2006, 09:30 AM
Well, Milledge struggled to show either power or speed in his first trial, but most rookies don't take over the game right off the bat. We've seen that over and over again.

I would definitely take Milledge over Anderson at this point, but not by much.

Beautox
11-22-2006, 10:01 AM
I understand what KW is doing. Maybe that plan will net him Pelfrey and a low level prospect. Who else is having these delusions?

I think KW will get alot more than Pelfry/Humber and a low level spec. Pitching is the currency of the game, obviously one would want young pitching, but veterans that have preformed on the biggest stage and throw 200+IP and aren't health concerns are worth alot.

And Minaya's not going to give up half his minor system for a 1 year rental. He can get something younger, cheaper and better than Garcia if he's willing to package Milledge and Pelfrey/Humphrey.

Half? the mets may not have a top 10 system but 1 of Pelfry and Humber plus milledge isn't half, considering they've got Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez for OF depth and Neise developing, along with whom ever remains Pelfry or Humber, and a few of their international signings at low A.

Who besides the white sox have good pitching the spare? The Angels(santana) but they want an impact bat. The Marlins? they'll be looking to the rule 5 draft to fill their void in CF, they might even draft white sox farm hand Ricardo Nanita. If Verlander and Granderson weren't good enough to get him last year Pelfry and Milledge doesn't even get you on the phone with Larry Beinfest this year.

Humber and Sanchez are about equal prospects. Milledge is 10X the prospects that Detroit threw in to get Sheffield. Not to mention that Sheffield isn't a 1 year rental.
Wrong, Sanchez may be overweight but he has better pure stuff than Humber, and has never had surgery, even though he has been shelved in the past. New York got a stud SP who if healthy has #1/2 written all over him or if not he will be moved to the BP. They also got a great closing prospect(Whelan) that could very well race through their system and be there to set up for Mo in the near future before taking over. Anthony Claggett has alot of potential too, hes a very good BP prospect and just icing on the cake. Cashman got something for nothing.

caulfield12
11-22-2006, 10:06 AM
I'm just adding more ridiculous possible contracts...to the reasons why KW isn't going the FA route with the exception of the bullpen.

Gary Matthews, Jr. rumored to be asking $55 million for 5 years
Julio Lugo, rumored to be asking a "more reasonable" $32 million for 4 years

I know that KW won't even give GM a second thought at those numbers. Lugo, possibly...but I doubt it.

Tigers' trade is puzzling....the Yankees were in a similar situation with Sheffield as the Phillies w/ Abreu and Thome. One wonders why they gave up so much, when only 2-3 teams would even think to sign Sheffield to that contract at his age, let alone give away a premiere starting prospect to a rival.

Beautox
11-22-2006, 10:20 AM
I'm just adding more ridiculous possible contracts...to the reasons why KW isn't going the FA route with the exception of the bullpen.

Gary Matthews, Jr. rumored to be asking $55 million for 5 years
Julio Lugo, rumored to be asking a "more reasonable" $32 million for 4 years

I know that KW won't even give GM a second thought at those numbers. Lugo, possibly...but I doubt it.

Tigers' trade is puzzling....the Yankees were in a similar situation with Sheffield as the Phillies w/ Abreu and Thome. One wonders why they gave up so much, when only 2-3 teams would even think to sign Sheffield to that contract at his age, let alone give away a premiere starting prospect to a rival.

I don't think KW will be dipping into FA at all this off season. GMJ had a career year, and lugo is a butcher at SS.

I guess the tigers had the forsight to see the market was going to get very crazy this offseason.

I think our BP is pretty much settled except for LOOGY which will be decided in ST, unless when we trade someone we get another piece to add to it. Time will shortly tell.

mcp5185
11-22-2006, 11:00 AM
[quote=Beautox;1417818]I understand why you would trade for a Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones, but a couple of things, Vernon Wells is going to command Beltran money, and Jones is represented by Boras, it would be a waste of resources to rent them for one year. KW is not going to commit that kind of money to a position player, esp in this market. Give it another year or two and the market will correct itself.

Anyways if Dye and Uribe are going to LA for Furcal, i would expect Broxton (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=455009) and Elbert (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Scott%20Elbert&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455092) to come back our way.

Broxton in our BP wow, talk about shut down.

Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Broxton, Aardsma, Haeger :drool:

quote]

Between Wells and Jones I would much rather have Wells. He has proven to be a great hitter who also plays gold glove caliber defense in CF. IMO if we could extend Wells, even at Beltran type money it wouldn't increase our payroll that much. As you stated earlier in this post, by trading Dye, Uribe, and Garcia we would be unloading over 20 million in contracts. Furcal was about 13 million. I'm not exactly what Beltran got but I would assume around 18 million a year. I would only trade for him if we could extend, I wouldn't want a one year rental.

Wells made just under 5 million and I would imagine so with the contracts we traded next year he would cost us very little. In 2008 we could potentially let Buehrle go and plug Elbert into the rotation. Crede would also be a free agent, and we have Fields waiting in the wings.

I know it's kind of a pipe dream, but we would land a good lead off guy with some prospects, and also a great CFer. I just wouldn't be comfortable, as would most of the posters here, with Anderson, Sweeney, and Milledge in one OF, next year.

Beautox
11-22-2006, 11:19 AM
[quote=Beautox;1417818]I understand why you would trade for a Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones, but a couple of things, Vernon Wells is going to command Beltran money, and Jones is represented by Boras, it would be a waste of resources to rent them for one year. KW is not going to commit that kind of money to a position player, esp in this market. Give it another year or two and the market will correct itself.

Anyways if Dye and Uribe are going to LA for Furcal, i would expect Broxton (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=455009) and Elbert (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Scott%20Elbert&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455092) to come back our way.

Broxton in our BP wow, talk about shut down.

Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Broxton, Aardsma, Haeger :drool:

quote]

Between Wells and Jones I would much rather have Wells. He has proven to be a great hitter who also plays gold glove caliber defense in CF. IMO if we could extend Wells, even at Beltran type money it wouldn't increase our payroll that much. As you stated earlier in this post, by trading Dye, Uribe, and Garcia we would be unloading over 20 million in contracts. Furcal was about 13 million. I'm not exactly what Beltran got but I would assume around 18 million a year. I would only trade for him if we could extend, I wouldn't want a one year rental.

Wells made just under 5 million and I would imagine so with the contracts we traded next year he would cost us very little. In 2008 we could potentially let Buehrle go and plug Elbert into the rotation. Crede would also be a free agent, and we have Fields waiting in the wings.

I know it's kind of a pipe dream, but we would land a good lead off guy with some prospects, and also a great CFer. I just wouldn't be comfortable, as would most of the posters here, with Anderson, Sweeney, and Milledge in one OF, next year.

What would we have to give up to get wells? Anderson and ? and yes i think we could afford it, but i also feel Brian will come into his power hes only 24, and in just under 400ABs hes shown more power than Torii for their respective ages. I'd rather just stick it out with Anderson and spend that money on pitching and international draft signings.

caulfield12
11-22-2006, 12:10 PM
[quote=mcp5185;1418009]

What would we have to give up to get wells? Anderson and ? and yes i think we could afford it, but i also feel Brian will come into his power hes only 24, and in just under 400ABs hes shown more power than Torii for their respective ages. I'd rather just stick it out with Anderson and spend that money on pitching and international draft signings.

It would have to be something like Anderson and Garcia.