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ihatethecubs
07-31-2001, 03:08 AM
i dont know if anybody posted this but did you see baseball tonight and they did the 5 best trades ever and sosa for bell was 2 and gamons said "while we watch sammy have great season after great season, the white sox are watched by many empty seats"

ihatethecubs
07-31-2001, 03:17 AM
my computer is being fixed and im using my other computer and i couldnt post on my other comp so i guess the problem was with the computer not the site. and it says "new at WSI" under my post. hahaha even though ive been going to the site since '99

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 03:57 AM
Hey Hate!
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harwar
07-31-2001, 09:55 AM
When i first heard boston gammons say that,i was furious.But then i rememberd who this guy is,and laughed it off.Then i stoped laughing and realized the ******** was right.

Palehose1
07-31-2001, 10:39 AM
Well, Jorge Bell helped the Sox to Division title in 93. What has Sosa done for the Cubs in that span? One Wild Card qualifier. Yeah Sammy ! Boy that was worth it. It's not like we traded Michael Jordan to the Cubs and they won 6 titles in 8 years. They made the playoffs once in 9 years with the Great One!
As far as I'm concerned, that trade's a wash!

Iwritecode
07-31-2001, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Palehose1
What has Sosa done for the Cubs in that span? One Wild Card qualifier. Yeah Sammy ! Boy that was worth it.


Very good point. I noticed Boston Gammons failed to reflect on this. Sammy hits a lot of meaningless zingers and keeps the attendance up...

Fisk Fan
07-31-2001, 12:07 PM
I was furious. That piece of ***** cares nothing for the Sox and that was evident last year when the Sox were leading the A.L. Who cares what Gammons says anyway, it all boils down to one constant: The Sox get noe respect!

Piss on that little Gobbler Neck!!!!

KingXerxes
07-31-2001, 12:18 PM
While it's very true that the Cubs haven't done much of anything during Sosa's tenure - I don't believe that trade was a wash. Imagine if the White Sox had him batting in between Thomas and Ventura (or Thomas and Ordonez) all those years.

At the time the trade was made, there was no way imaginable that anyone would have thought that Sosa would have come on like he has so I don't fault anyone for pulling the trigger on it, but with the benefit of hindsight - clearly we would have been better off keeping him. Hindsight is what Gammons specializes in, so his report should be no great news to anybody.

FarWestChicago
07-31-2001, 12:28 PM
At the time the trade was made, there was no way imaginable that anyone would have thought that Sosa would have come on like he has so I don't fault anyone for pulling the trigger on it

I would say whoever he's been getting his steroids from all these years had some idea of what he would become...

shane
07-31-2001, 12:43 PM
My God, he would have gone on for another 30 minutes had they not cut him off. Nomar's a great player, but enough. He is not the best position player in baseball right now, and definetly not in the history of the game. Ted Williams told him he thought he was the best in Red Sox history and it looked like Harold was trying pretty hard not to laugh.

Chisox353014
07-31-2001, 01:03 PM
The points made about Shammy's meaningless zingers and only having made the one playoff appearance are valid, and any intelligent baseball fan knows are the only points that really matter. Unfortunately, what Shammy has done to us is worse: he has almost single-handedly cemented this town as a Flubs town. That is where the full impact of that trade has been felt. What do most idiots know about Chicago baseball? Wrigley and Sammy. They have marketed that moron to perfection with his little homer routine and camera-mugging and TV-ready quotes. The aura around the Flubs is sickeningly positive while the Sox get absolutely no break from the media and public. That more than anything is why I hate Sosa so much.

Mathew
07-31-2001, 02:31 PM
Any idea what the other trades were?
Be as angry as you like but Bell was crap when we got him. He didn't bring us the 93' championship. He was finished when we got him and apparently Sammy was on the incline. I'm glad the Sox aren't the team that is all about Sammy now like those other guys are known for but to claim we didn't lose that trade is a lie. P.S. Was Greg Maddux on that list?

Mathew
07-31-2001, 02:33 PM
Trades happen all the time that work or don't for any one team. When the Expos traded Martinez for Carl Pavano I thought they got a fair trade. Then Pavano gets hurt and Pedro gets unbeatable now it's insane.

Fisk Fan
07-31-2001, 02:36 PM
Can you see my gobbler?

KVinc
07-31-2001, 02:46 PM
umm sosa became a hitter really in 96 and until now. Well in that time we got Alber belle I'd say from 97 to 98 statiscally he replaced Sammy, i think so.

Now yes from 98 sammy hitting 50 homers and crap. Well guess what sammy doesnt have an arm its better but still sucks, and Magglio is faster to me and is better overall hitter and situational hitter.

So really in return for Sosa we got Belle a tremendous slugger who was a serviceable fielder. Then we got a young and budding star who can one day hit maybe 40 to 45 homers and drive 140 runs. Maggs can steal 20 bases, Maggs has an above avergae arm but he has trouble sometimes reading the ball.



I really dont see what we lost in this trade

Mathew
07-31-2001, 02:57 PM
Albert Belle cost a forture was a cancer, again leading to more resentment on the White Sox. Ordonez is better but Sosa could play Left Field or DH. To say that he would not have played or helped is wrong even if his not being around paved the way for others, trading away young budding stars for aging fading stars often doesn't work and in this case didn't. Even if you trade Sosa for something better, there are better players in the league then and now than Jorge Bell

KingXerxes
07-31-2001, 03:02 PM
Look, I as much as anybody wish we never made a bad deal and always had perfect vision as to what a player's potential was - but let's be realistic here folks, it always doesn't happen.

To say that Sosa has not brought the northsiders pennant after pennant is a very fair point, but to justify his departure from the White Sox by pointing to the arrival of Albert Belle (?) or Magglio Ordonez (?) is very CubFan-like in nature. These are mutually exclusive transactions - and do not reflect on the nature of the deal in question.

They did make a bad deal - in hindsight. It's past, it's gone, it's history and it's never coming back. To try and rationalize it as a good deal or a wash deal does not do justice to the intelligence level of the guys on these threads.

Palehose1
07-31-2001, 03:26 PM
I not totally sure about this, but didn't Jorge Bell hit 30+ homers for us in 1993 ? By today's home run standards, that looks like someone's career is in decline. But for back then (Prior to McGwire's 70), that was a great year.

Can anyone verify this for me, I am just pulling that figure from memory.

Mathew
07-31-2001, 03:33 PM
I don't care if he hit 50 that year he was old and yes declining. By 94' he Bo Jackson and Dan Pasqua platooned at DH? He was good in Toronto in the 80's not Chicago in the 90'. I'm sorry to sound like I'm pro Sosa, but I truely don't think a reasonable arguement for this trade can be made in hindsight. I probably wouldn't have opposed it at the time but in the end we can say we lost out on something here.

KingXerxes
07-31-2001, 03:36 PM
1992:
Average - .255
Hr. - 25
RBI - 112

In 1992 he hit into 29 double plays.

1993:
Average - .217
Hr. - 13
RBI - 64

1994:
Out of Baseball

He had a good RBI year in '92, but all of these other numbers are way below his career averages. Once again, I hate using hindsight, but everybody like it or not has to admit that this trade did not work out - even remotely - for the White Sox. I admit that this organization has had some horrendous trades, Rich Gossage, Norm Cash, Bobby Bonilla and the like were all traded by the White Sox - but every organization has trades like these. Look at Cleveland - they've traded away five or six top notch players in the past three or four years.

Mathew
07-31-2001, 03:40 PM
That was the big point I wanted to make that it is common to trade unhearalded prospects for aging vets. When the young guy doesn't make it and the has still has years it's genious but when you do trade and get a future superstar the risk is more but the windfalls are much higher.

On an unrelated question who did we give the Yankees for Singleton?

Fisk Fan
07-31-2001, 03:43 PM
The Sox were tired of waiting for him to finally come around, so they dealt him for a player they thought would help at that time. The same goes for Mike Cameron, who is tearing it up right now. Hindsight is always 20/20.

KingXerxes
07-31-2001, 03:47 PM
Nobody here is debating that hindsight is 20/20. Hell I've been clear to point out that I think - given the situation at the time and the prognosis of Sammy Sosa - the White Sox made the right move. Larry Hymes seemed to be the only guy in baseball who saw anything in Sosa in 1992, and if not for him, the Cubs never would have made the deal. But there is no way (without blushing) that Sox fans can say the deal was a good one for them - the guy may end up with 650 home runs by the time he's through.