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View Full Version : Let's talk leadoff man: the bargain on the market


rowand33
11-20-2006, 06:54 PM
At the end of the season, I think the general feeling was that Pods needed to go.

But, in the wake of the Pierre and Soriano signings, I highly doubt that we'll be signing Roberts.

Gary Matthews, Jr. is also going to command a huge contract, and I think he'll probably prove to be the least deserving of it.

so... now I'm starting to think (and this thought is really bumming me out)...

is anybody out there (that's available) an actual upgrade from Pods?

I don't think that this will be too popular around here, but I think that the best upgrade at LF this offseason is...

Shannon Stewart.

he's a career .299 hitter, .364 career OBP. and his career numbers batting leadoff?

.302 AVG and a .365 OBP.

he was an MVP candidate in 2003, absolutely killing the ball when he came over to the twins (.384 OBP!)

and I'm not 100%, but I think he's a decent defender, certainly better than Pods. he hasn't stolen bases in years, but he gets on, and I've always been impressed with him when I watched him play.

he was hurt last year, so he won't command the huge bucks as the other guys and might be better than pierre, roberts, or matthews.

I think that signing Stewart could be much akin to signing JD. Under the radar, huge upside potential.

Sox Fan 35
11-20-2006, 06:55 PM
He is always hurts. We would be better of with Pods.

chisoxmike
11-20-2006, 06:57 PM
Christ...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81318

Jerksticks
11-20-2006, 07:04 PM
Hey man I just started postin here and you steal my thread? Either way though, Stewart's lame IMO. Stewart will NEVER steal 4 bags in a game. Pods can.

Domeshot17
11-20-2006, 07:26 PM
Pods MAY have the speed to steal 4 bases a game (big MAY), but, he cant get on base 4 times to do it.

If you sign stewart, you have to keep Pods, because you wont get more then 105 games out of him

a pods stewart platoon, especially at a combined 7 million, would be great I think

Jerksticks
11-20-2006, 08:30 PM
i'd love to have an outfield where LF is platooned by Ozuna, Stewart, Pods, and Fields... and CF is platooned by Mackowiak, Anderson, Sweeney. ohh yea

chisoxmike
11-20-2006, 08:53 PM
i'd love to have an outfield where LF is platooned by Ozuna, Stewart, Pods, and Fields... and CF is platooned by Mackowiak, Anderson, Sweeney. ohh yea


Holy ****!
:bundy

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 09:04 PM
Pods MAY have the speed to steal 4 bases a game (big MAY), but, he cant get on base 4 times to do it.

If you sign stewart, you have to keep Pods, because you wont get more then 105 games out of him

a pods stewart platoon, especially at a combined 7 million, would be great I think


Umm....Stewart's average over the last three years against lefties is .257. How would a platoon make much sense when both struggle in that category?

You're basically carrying a player as insurance...and neither player will benefit from inconsistent playing time.

And why would Stewart go somewhere where he wasn't sure he'd have at least a 50/50 chance to be the starter?

WizardsofOzzie
11-20-2006, 09:38 PM
i'd love to have an outfield where LF is platooned by Ozuna, Stewart, Pods, and Fields... and CF is platooned by Mackowiak, Anderson, Sweeney. ohh yea
:tealpolice:


This one deserves the teal swat team van

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2006, 09:49 PM
I wouldn't mind putting either Pods or Sweeney in LF as long as they have a good platoon partner for the tougher lefties in our division. Jose Cruz Jr. anyone? Look at those freaking splits!

ShoelessJoeS
11-20-2006, 10:15 PM
i'd love to have an outfield where LF is platooned by Ozuna, Stewart, Pods, and Fields... and CF is platooned by Mackowiak, Anderson, Sweeney. ohh yeaI don't want to beat a dead horse, but you obviously must have missed the games in which Mack started in CF last year. I love the guy, but not as a CFer.

thomas35forever
11-20-2006, 10:26 PM
What was Sweeney's OBP last year and how many SBs did he have?

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2006, 10:26 PM
What was Sweeney's OBP last year and how many SBs did he have?
.350 and irrelevant

chisoxmike
11-20-2006, 10:51 PM
What was Sweeney's OBP last year and how many SBs did he have?

Are you kidding?

WizardsofOzzie
11-20-2006, 11:08 PM
What was Sweeney's OBP last year and how many SBs did he have?
Sweeney has 24 SB since 2003......not exactly what you would call an impressive stat

munchman33
11-20-2006, 11:22 PM
He is always hurts. We would be better of with Pods.

I'd take an entire year of Stewart on and off the disabled list before I take another year with Podsednik as our everyday leadoff hitter. If we go into the year with Podsednik in left, we're pretty much saying "wait until 2008."

Lillian
11-21-2006, 08:12 AM
In view of the kind of money being thrown at Pierre, and likely Roberts, I'd just as well see the Sox stick with Pods, and perhaps Pablo Ozuna. They are a reasonable platoon option, or perhaps one would emerge as a clear candidate. I don't think you have to be overly concerned about their defense in left field. However, I hope that we don't have to ever watch either one of them at any other outfield position.

Pablo is a guy, like Gload, who has always hit, albeit in limited opportunities. Remember how well he was hitting before he pulled that hamstring last year?
He was always a terrific minor league hitter, and he has always produced with the Sox, when given a chance to play. His Spring training seasons, the last two years, have been unbelievable. I love his energy, and that opposite field stroke would come in handy moving runners over to third. He isn't the most patient hitter, but I think he would get on base at a high enough rate, and when he does get on, he can unnerve some pitchers.

At any rate, it would sure beat spending $45 million over the next 5 years for a Juan Pierre. No thanks.

D. TODD
11-21-2006, 08:58 AM
Ozuna is a straight up butcher in the outfield. I hope his starts in left are few and far between unless he improves dramatically in the field.

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 09:15 AM
Ozuna is a straight up butcher in the outfield. I hope his starts in left are few and far between unless he improves dramatically in the field.


Owens doesn't have to play everyday, but he's a virtual copy of Pods in that he's a LH batter without power...so a platoon wouldn't make sense. I don't think Jerry would need to play everyday like Ryan or Anderson to keep on the roster though. I would rather have someone that can play CF and LF, and that's not our current bench.

We just have to figure out who is the most expendable...Gload or Ozuna.

I don't see Mackowiak or Cintron going anywhere, unless a starting job was available on one of the worst 5-10 teams.

WhiteSox5187
11-23-2006, 12:38 AM
Pods tends to have this weird thing where he does great in odd number years (kinda like Steve Traschel with the Mets, he is good in even numbered years) so using that standard, Pods should be good in '07. And to be fair to him, Pods came into the year pretty banged up and I really dont' think that hamstring ever really healed following the second half of '05 and his shoulder never healed after that spring training thing this year.

Unless you could get a guy like Carl Crawford in left, who else is there? Ozuna is a horrible outfielder. He was painful to watch (as was Mack). I hear people tossing around Sweeney out there, but what if you have another Brian Anderson thing? Good fielder with lots of potential as a hitter, but just can't hit yet. We can't really afford to have another .230 hitter at the bottom or the top of the line up.

Somebody mentioned Stewart (I think) but you gotta give him an incentive laden contract and get him cheap. I would be hesistant to toll out fifty million bucks to a guy like Gary Matthews Jr or Juan Pierre when all odds are Pods could put up just as descent numbers.

Lillian
11-23-2006, 08:36 AM
Pods tends to have this weird thing where he does great in odd number years (kinda like Steve Traschel with the Mets, he is good in even numbered years) so using that standard, Pods should be good in '07. And to be fair to him, Pods came into the year pretty banged up and I really dont' think that hamstring ever really healed following the second half of '05 and his shoulder never healed after that spring training thing this year.


Unless you could get a guy like Carl Crawford in left, who else is there? Ozuna is a horrible outfielder. He was painful to watch (as was Mack). I hear people tossing around Sweeney out there, but what if you have another Brian Anderson thing? Good fielder with lots of potential as a hitter, but just can't hit yet. We can't really afford to have another .230 hitter at the bottom or the top of the line up.

Somebody mentioned Stewart (I think) but you gotta give him an incentive laden contract and get him cheap. I would be hesistant to toll out fifty million bucks to a guy like Gary Matthews Jr or Juan Pierre when all odds are Pods could put up just as descent numbers.

The alternating years of good performance for Pods do have a reasonably good explanation. After his first successful season, he tried to become something that he wasn't. According to his own admission, he tried to hit for more power, and his performance suffered. Last year, he was hobbled by injuries, one to the shoulder, and the other a lingering affect of the groin injury, that slowed him down during the last half of 2005. I agree, that if he is healthy, and stays within his game, he should be fine.

The other problem with trying to go with Sweeney is that he is not a candidate for leadoff.

Grzegorz
11-23-2006, 08:40 AM
Ozuna is a straight up butcher in the outfield. I hope his starts in left are few and far between unless he improves dramatically in the field.

Why don't guys like him go to winter ball? Some more time in the outfield very well might improve his defense.

johnr1note
11-23-2006, 09:27 AM
Pods tends to have this weird thing where he does great in odd number years (kinda like Steve Traschel with the Mets, he is good in even numbered years) so using that standard, Pods should be good in '07. And to be fair to him, Pods came into the year pretty banged up and I really dont' think that hamstring ever really healed following the second half of '05 and his shoulder never healed after that spring training thing this year.

Unless you could get a guy like Carl Crawford in left, who else is there? Ozuna is a horrible outfielder. He was painful to watch (as was Mack). I hear people tossing around Sweeney out there, but what if you have another Brian Anderson thing? Good fielder with lots of potential as a hitter, but just can't hit yet. We can't really afford to have another .230 hitter at the bottom or the top of the line up.

Somebody mentioned Stewart (I think) but you gotta give him an incentive laden contract and get him cheap. I would be hesistant to toll out fifty million bucks to a guy like Gary Matthews Jr or Juan Pierre when all odds are Pods could put up just as descent numbers.

I tend to agree with this analysis. Remember, Pods was hobbled by the groin injury in August of 2005, which slowed him down considerably. Think of the numbers he would have put up if his incredible first half had been extended all year. This injury, and the shoulder issue, plagued him most of last year. I think a healthy Podsednik is just as potent a weapon as any leadoff hitter in the league, with the exception perhaps of Ichiro, who we would never stand a chance of getting.

FoxsMightyMite
11-23-2006, 10:28 AM
I tend to agree with this analysis. Remember, Pods was hobbled by the groin injury in August of 2005, which slowed him down considerably. Think of the numbers he would have put up if his incredible first half had been extended all year. This injury, and the shoulder issue, plagued him most of last year. I think a healthy Podsednik is just as potent a weapon as any leadoff hitter in the league, with the exception perhaps of Ichiro, who we would never stand a chance of getting.

Since lead-off is such a key position, I'd like to have two guys on the team who can do it, especially if one of them is Pods.

anewman35
11-23-2006, 01:41 PM
I'd take an entire year of Stewart on and off the disabled list before I take another year with Podsednik as our everyday leadoff hitter. If we go into the year with Podsednik in left, we're pretty much saying "wait until 2008."

That's one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard. Sure, if we can do better than Pods, we should. But we won the world series with him ONE YEAR AGO. There's no reason to believe he can't come back and have another good season. Even last year, we still won more games than the World Series champions did, and that was with horrible pitching...

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2006, 09:56 PM
The alternating years of good performance for Pods do have a reasonably good explanation. After his first successful season, he tried to become something that he wasn't. According to his own admission, he tried to hit for more power, and his performance suffered. Last year, he was hobbled by injuries, one to the shoulder, and the other a lingering affect of the groin injury, that slowed him down during the last half of 2005. I agree, that if he is healthy, and stays within his game, he should be fine.

The other problem with trying to go with Sweeney is that he is not a candidate for leadoff.No, that's not it. It's the numbers. He was born in an even number year, so that means he'll be good in odd numbered years, see? Plus, he's a Pisces, and you know how THEY are.:rolleyes:

thomas35forever
11-23-2006, 10:01 PM
Since lead-off is such a key position, I'd like to have two guys on the team who can do it, especially if one of them is Pods.
Let me hijack this thread and say that I'd love to see Pods switch off with Chone Figgins as frequently as BA and Mackowiak did this year.

caulfield12
11-23-2006, 10:03 PM
Bret Saberhagen was the one who famously followed this pattern.

munchman33
11-23-2006, 10:07 PM
That's one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard. Sure, if we can do better than Pods, we should. But we won the world series with him ONE YEAR AGO. There's no reason to believe he can't come back and have another good season. Even last year, we still won more games than the World Series champions did, and that was with horrible pitching...

Expecting Pods to repeat that year is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard someone say. Every other year in he's had in the league proves it's a fluke.

getonbckthr
11-24-2006, 01:17 AM
I'm still hoping for a Javy or Freddy to the Mets for Heilman and Milledge. Just so we can take Heilman and Milledge +1 of our many prospect pitchers and send them to Tampa for Crawford. A Crawford, Anderson, Dye OF is pretty sweet.

anewman35
11-24-2006, 06:35 AM
Expecting Pods to repeat that year is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard someone say. Every other year in he's had in the league proves it's a fluke.

No sarcasm here, I'm actually really curious - besides not playing a good left field, what exactly did Pods do last year that was so horrible? Look at http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/podsesc01.shtml. In almost every catagory, it wasn't his best season but it wasn't his worst either. Believe me, I got as frustrated with him last year as anybody, but I see no reason to be positive he's done. To be clear here, I'm not saying "Podsednik is the answer", but I am saying that, if other things fall into place, we could make the playoffs again, even if he duplicated his 2006 season.

caulfield12
11-24-2006, 08:24 AM
I'm still hoping for a Javy or Freddy to the Mets for Heilman and Milledge. Just so we can take Heilman and Milledge +1 of our many prospect pitchers and send them to Tampa for Crawford. A Crawford, Anderson, Dye OF is pretty sweet.


This isn't 2001. We have Broadway, who's projected at best as a 4. McCullough can't be traded yet. Do you really think TB would get excited about Heath Phillips or Charles Haeger for Crawford? Sean Tracey? Corwin Malone? Our system has never been more bereft of pitching prospects due to trades and non-performance.

Three of our best young pitchers are gone and Liotta went in the tank. Russell and Harrell COULD be decent, but that's a huge projection that TB wouldn't even bother to make.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 09:51 AM
The impressive thing about Crawford is that he is only 26, and he has already been putting up pretty good stats for the last 3 years. He seems to be getting better every year.

The issue of "burying" his speed in the middle of the order, has been raised in another thread. Couldn't it be constructive to have a lineup where the second half of your batting order was a copy of the first half?

Let's say you had both Crawford, and Figgins or Pods on a Sox team with Iguchi, Dye, Thome, Crede, Pierzynski, Uribe and Gload. This assumes that Konerko had been dealt somewhere in the mix, along with a starter in order to get Crawford and other pieces. Now, couldn't you benefit from the speed of two "leadoff" hitters by constructing the following lineup:

Figgins
Iguchi
Dye
Thome

Crawford
Gload
Crede
Pierzynski
Uribe

You would have a stolen base threat, with a good OBP, at the top of each half, followed by a guy with good bat control in the 2 hole, then a right handed, left handed combo of RBI guys.
The transition between the two halves would be very smooth, with a versatile hitter like Crawford. In those instances where he came to the plate with guys on base, he is capable of driving them in.
I love it.

caulfield12
11-24-2006, 09:58 AM
The impressive thing about Crawford is that he is only 26, and he has already been putting up pretty good stats for the last 3 years. He seems to be getting better every year.

The issue of "burying" his speed in the middle of the order, has been raised in another thread. Couldn't it be constructive to have a lineup where the second half of your batting order was a copy of the first half?

Let's say you had both Crawford, and Figgins or Pods on a Sox team with Iguchi, Dye, Thome, Crede, Pierzynski, Uribe and Gload. This assumes that Konerko had been dealt somewhere in the mix, along with a starter in order to get Crawford and other pieces. Now, couldn't you benefit from the speed of two "leadoff" hitters by constructing the following lineup:

Figgins
Iguchi
Dye
Thome

Crawford
Gload
Crede
Pierzynski
Uribe

You would have a stolen base threat, with a good OBP, at the top of each half, followed by a guy with good bat control in the 2 hole, then a right handed, left handed combo of RBI guys.
The transition between the two halves would be very smooth, with a versatile hitter like Crawford. In those instances where he came to the plate with guys on base, he is capable of driving them in.
I love it.

I don't mind anything besides Gload starting. I know there are a number of threads about this. But if you did deal Konerko to the Angels, you could get Kendry Morales back in return.

rowand33
11-24-2006, 10:28 AM
No sarcasm here, I'm actually really curious - besides not playing a good left field, what exactly did Pods do last year that was so horrible? Look at http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/podsesc01.shtml. In almost every catagory, it wasn't his best season but it wasn't his worst either. Believe me, I got as frustrated with him last year as anybody, but I see no reason to be positive he's done. To be clear here, I'm not saying "Podsednik is the answer", but I am saying that, if other things fall into place, we could make the playoffs again, even if he duplicated his 2006 season.

well, first off, let's look his his season OBP. .330. pretty bad for a leadoff man, and I believe it's one of the lowest OBP in the AL for a leadoff man.

awful in the second half. .241 AVG, .296 OBP.

he had only one month of the season where he hit over .300, May. and check out his OBP per month:

April: .281
May: .443
June: .318
July: .330
August: .284
September: .315

to me, that means he had one good month (May), one ok month (July) and for every other month of the season, he was completely unacceptable.

The guy is supposed to be a leadoff man and he just can't get on base. And when he is on, he struggles more than he used to steal

Then you add in the fact that he's awful in the field, and you wonder if podsednik should be starting on any team in the majros, let alone on a contender.

And for more evidence of how awful he was last year, let's look at his 2005 OBP by month:

April: .354
May: .383
June: .344
July: .360
August: .237
September: .386

so to me, this means that he was absolutely awful in one month and pretty damn good every other month of the season. compare these numbers to 2006 and you'll see just how terrible he was last year.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 10:29 AM
That's ok. Plug Morales into this equation, if it works. But conceptually, the question is this; Is the basic idea of the ideal batting order as follows:
1) A high on base percentage, stolen base threat at the top
2) A patient number 2 hitter, who can give the baserunner a chance to run, and who has good bat control, and is a good contact hitter, enabling the hit and run.
3) A power hitter, and or high average clutch hitter, who can drive in runs
4) Another number 3 type hitter, but batting from the other side of the plate, in order to break up the match ups.

If that is the best construct, then why wouldn't the same fundamental system apply equally to the second half of the order, even if the pieces may not be quite as potent?

Sure Crede isn't Dye, and A.J. isn't Thome, but then that is why they would comprise part of the second half, and not the first half of the order.
Crawford would actually be even better than his counterpart, as the second half "leadoff" man, and while Crede's numbers probably wouldn't equal Dye's, he is a great clutch hitter.

caulfield12
11-24-2006, 10:36 AM
I agree in theory. It's the agents and MLBPA that get in the way of decreasing the number of at-bats for star players, going to a 4 man rotation...heck, letting every pitcher go one inning every game, that was my dad's idea when he was a Little League coach.

We all agree on one thing....we need to break up the Thome/Konerko/Dye/Crede/AJ 400 M relay team. I really think that you could give them a 200 M headstart and they would still lose in an Olympic race.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 10:43 AM
You are absolutely right. That 3 through 7 part of the order is just too slow, especially for a guy like Ozzie, who loves speed.
So, you have presented another compelling reason to consider trying to replace someone like Konerko, with a Crawford type.
How do we get that accomplished? What pieces do we trade to whom, for what?

White Sox Randy
11-24-2006, 11:35 AM
Just for the record, I like Shannon Stewart also. I don't know what the cost would be to acquire him.

But, I like him and Ensberg. The Sox might be able to make some under the radar inexpensive high ceiling type moves for these players that could pay off very well.

The Sox clearly need another starting outfielder in CF or LF. Also, 2 more reliable bullpen arms are needed if they expect to win the AL Central.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 02:17 PM
Now that another big bat has signed elsewhere, the Angels have one less option to satisfy their "lust" for a power hitter. They really prefer a first baseman. I sense that we could be getting closer to the kind of deal, about which a few of us have been speculating.
Moreover, this Lee signing makes Crawford's contract look even more attractive.
Please make it happen, Kenny.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 02:51 PM
Ok. I know that I'm getting a little carried away, but humor me, please.
Here's how we could make this work:
Garcia and Konerko to the Angels for Santana, Shields and Kendry Morales.
McCarthy straight up for Crawford

McCarthy is the pitcher whom Tampa Bay would want. The Sox could afford to let him go, if they could get another young, inexpensive starter to take his place. Santana gives us that guy.

Now you have the following roster and lineup:

LF Pods
2B Iguchi
RF Dye
DH Thome
CF Crawford
C A.J.
3B Crede
1B Morales
SS Uribe

This is a younger, faster, and cheaper lineup, and gives you that two sets of 1-4 type order. The second half of the order starts with your second leadoff guy, Crawford.

The pitching staff has 5 top of the rotation arms in the following:

Contreras
Garland
Vasques
Santana
Buehrle

The pen has a mix of power arms, and off speed pitchers:

Haeger
Logan
Aardsman
MacDougal
Thornton
Jenks

The bench is still one of the best in baseball:

Gload, Ozuna, Makowiak, Cintron, and either Anderson, Sweeney, Fields or maybe even Terrero.

My only question is would the Angels and Devil Rays go for these deals.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-24-2006, 03:04 PM
Why is everyone so set on dealing Konerko? :?: He's the most consistant hitter we have IMO.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 03:10 PM
Why is everyone so set on dealing Konerko? :?: He's the most consistant hitter we have IMO.

I don't think that any of us are eager to get rid of him. The question is; who else do we have, whom we could use as trade bait, in order to get what we want. We are all trying to address the following team needs: More speed, more youth, eliminate the offensive holes in CF, SS and lead off, to name a few.

Whom would you offer to bring players like Crawford, Santana, Morales, and Shields?

WhiteSox5187
11-24-2006, 03:43 PM
Giving up Konerko is absolutely nuts. Unless Jesus Christ all of a sudden becomes available on the trade market (and he can hit 40 HRs and drive in 100 RBIs a year with good speed), I wouldn't give up Konerko. Konerko is the captain of this team. Ideally, you'd like more speed at the bottom of that order like around sixth or seventh. But you don't expect 3-4-5 to have great speed. You expect them to drive in the guys with good speed.

Chisox003
11-24-2006, 04:33 PM
We are all trying to address the following team needs: More speed, more youth, eliminate the offensive holes in CF, SS and lead off, to name a few.
Which should be objectives 4, 5 and 6 behind Pitching, pitching, and um, pitching. If Ozzie would just leave CF the **** alone, there wouldn't be a problem there. Uribe is a GG caliber SS, and Podsednik is a gamble that, at this point, might need to be taken.

Everything will fall into place if the pitching is good, which last year it wasn't. At all.

Lillian
11-24-2006, 04:54 PM
Which should be objectives 4, 5 and 6 behind Pitching, pitching, and um, pitching. If Ozzie would just leave CF the **** alone, there wouldn't be a problem there. Uribe is a GG caliber SS, and Podsednik is a gamble that, at this point, might need to be taken.

Everything will fall into place if the pitching is good, which last year it wasn't. At all.

Of course, pitching is number one. I was just responding to the post by WhiteSox5187, who was focusing on the offense. I think that many of us agree that any one of the positions discussed could be alright without an offensive upgrade, which is consistent with my suggested lineup including Uribe. The problem is having that lack of on base percentage in the 8, 9 and leadoff spots. If you fix one or two of them, you could live with a pure defensive player somewhere. Doesn't that make sense?

caulfield12
11-24-2006, 04:56 PM
Playing Devil's Advocate, if Thome, Dye, Crede or AJ go down, our offense is in a bit of trouble, and Konerko is the anchor of that offense.

You're not sure if any of those first three guys are going to be as good as they were in 2006...Konerko has been the most consistent and predictable run and power producer in the Sox line-up the past 6-7 years (along with a healthy Thomas).

munchman33
11-24-2006, 08:41 PM
well, first off, let's look his his season OBP. .330. pretty bad for a leadoff man, and I believe it's one of the lowest OBP in the AL for a leadoff man.

awful in the second half. .241 AVG, .296 OBP.

he had only one month of the season where he hit over .300, May. and check out his OBP per month:

April: .281
May: .443
June: .318
July: .330
August: .284
September: .315

to me, that means he had one good month (May), one ok month (July) and for every other month of the season, he was completely unacceptable.

The guy is supposed to be a leadoff man and he just can't get on base. And when he is on, he struggles more than he used to steal

Then you add in the fact that he's awful in the field, and you wonder if podsednik should be starting on any team in the majros, let alone on a contender.

And for more evidence of how awful he was last year, let's look at his 2005 OBP by month:

April: .354
May: .383
June: .344
July: .360
August: .237
September: .386

so to me, this means that he was absolutely awful in one month and pretty damn good every other month of the season. compare these numbers to 2006 and you'll see just how terrible he was last year.

Thank you.

Hey mods, any possible way we can sticky this post and refer anyone who thinks having Podsednik back, starting in left, and leading off isn't an absolutely terrible idea? :redneck

caulfield12
11-24-2006, 10:32 PM
And with that, stick these three signings as well....

Pierre (29), $8.8 million per season
Matthews Jr (32), $10 million per season
Roberts (34), at least $7 million per season for 3 years

It will be interesting to see the amount...the original asking price was $15 million for 3 years...we'll see if he made it to $20 or signed so he could stay on the West Coast in the same division with his former manager Bochy.

Lillian
11-25-2006, 04:46 AM
The impressive thing about Crawford is that he is only 26, and he has already been putting up pretty good stats for the last 3 years. He seems to be getting better every year.

The issue of "burying" his speed in the middle of the order, has been raised in another thread. Couldn't it be constructive to have a lineup where the second half of your batting order was a copy of the first half?

Let's say you had both Crawford, and Figgins or Pods on a Sox team with Iguchi, Dye, Thome, Crede, Pierzynski, Uribe and Gload. This assumes that Konerko had been dealt somewhere in the mix, along with a starter in order to get Crawford and other pieces. Now, couldn't you benefit from the speed of two "leadoff" hitters by constructing the following lineup:

Figgins
Iguchi
Dye
Thome

Crawford
Gload
Crede
Pierzynski
Uribe

You would have a stolen base threat, with a good OBP, at the top of each half, followed by a guy with good bat control in the 2 hole, then a right handed, left handed combo of RBI guys.
The transition between the two halves would be very smooth, with a versatile hitter like Crawford. In those instances where he came to the plate with guys on base, he is capable of driving them in.
I love it.

Since one of the net affects of these personnel changes would be to have Crawford batting in konerko's old spot, it might be a useful exercise to talk about how that change in the lineup might impact the offense.

Sure Paulie hit 18 more homers and drove in 36 more runs. However,the RBI comparison isn't really fair, given that Paul bats in the heart of the order, and Crawford has been leading off. Moving to number 5 in the order would surely increase Carl's RBI totals. Moreover, everywhere else Crawford already is better. His 20 doubles and 16 triples gave him 36 extra base hits, excluding home runs, compared to Paulie's 30. It should also be noted that Carl's doubles were down 13 from the previous year, when he hit only one less triple. It's reasonable to assume that he could be expected to hit more doubles than he did last year.
Now add in his 58 stolen bases, and Crawford put himself in scoring position 94 times, compared to Konerko's total of 31. Crawford only struck out 85 times, and most importantly has only grounded into a total of 26 double plays, in his 5 year career. Konerko grounded into 25 just last year alone!! In fact he has averaged about that in each 3 of his last 4 seasons.
Now think about all of the times that Crawford could get from first to third on a single, or score from second, instead of being held at third, or worse, getting nailed at the plate.

The more you examine the impact of having that speed to start off the second half of the order, the more attractive it looks. Crawford is so young that he is surely going to improve, and refine some parts of his game. He could learn to take a few more walks. Konerko got about the same number of walks as Crawford, at a comparable age.

I understand that Tamba Bay would only be interested in a young, inexpensive starter like McCarthy, but I think he would be worth it.
Again, such a trade would be contingent upon the Sox being able to make a fruitful trade of one of the other starters for a younger, less expensive starter. The Garcia and Konerko for Santana, Shields, and Figgins, or Morales would accomplish that.

I'm getting really stoked about this. The more I think about it, the better I like it. What do you guys think?

rowand33
11-25-2006, 07:09 PM
see, Crawford and Figgins I both have problems with. Figgins is nothing special, and Crawford is expensive.

if we're going to trade, I think our best trading partner is the phillies.

giving them Uribe+starting pitching+ ______

for

Rollins and Rowand.

Now, it's not like Rollins gets on base a lot more than Pods does though, so I'm not sure how I'd even feel about it, and despite the fact that I love Rowand, I'm not sure how I feel about an outfield of Rowand-Anderson-Dye... it would possibly be the best defensive outfield in baseball, but who the hell knows how Rowand and Anderson would hit?

but I think this is realistic and makes us better than last year.

Rowand would exceed Pod's defense
Rowand would equal Uribe's offense (less RBI, but less strikeouts, higher OBP).
Rollins would equal Uribe's defense.
Rollins would at least be equal to and possibly exceed Pod's role as a leadoff man, and certainly would produce more (25 homers last year).

now, I've no idea how willing the Phillies are to part with either of these players, but Victorino looked pretty damn good filling in for Rowand, and the Phillies are pitching hungry, and if I were them, I think I'd rather have Uribe and a starter than have Rollins.

This would leave us with a lineup looking something like:

Rollins
Iguchi
Dye
Thome
Konerko
Crede
AJ
Rowand
Anderson

and I think it's worth noting that Rowand has played hit the best in the 2 hole for his career (.346 AVG, .391 OBP, .514 SLG in 387 AB), so it's possible to put him at 2 and move iguchi down to break up the slow pokes, or bat him higher than 8th to break up the 4-7 sluggishness.

I feel that Chone Figgins would not be good for the team (he's Pods!), and Crawford is probably too costly.

I think this trade would improve us both offensively and defensively, and this defensive improvement would in turn improve the pitching staff.

gr8mexico
11-25-2006, 07:54 PM
What about signing Julio Lugo To bat leadoff. The guy was great in the AL were he knows all the pitchers. He can also still some bases. Then The Sox can package Juan Uribe and a SP for Vernon Well. The Blue Jays are looking for SP and a SS. You would have a lineup 1. Lugo 2.Wells 3. Dye 4. Thome 5. Konerko 6.Crede 7. A.J 8 Iguchi and 9th Brian Anderson

Frater Perdurabo
11-25-2006, 08:20 PM
giving them Uribe+starting pitching+ ______

for Rollins and Rowand...

This would leave us with a lineup looking something like:

Rollins, Iguchi, Dye, Thome, Konerko, Crede, AJ, Rowand, Anderson

...I think this trade would improve us both offensively and defensively, and this defensive improvement would in turn improve the pitching staff.

I usually am dismayed at the extent to which some folks go to dream up their own deeppink fantasies to bring back Rowand.

But I could support this deal based on the evidence you cite, although I'm not sure Rollins' defense is quite as good as Uribe's. You're right, though, the outfield defense would be spectacular. LF at the Cell is small, so Rowand would have to be even more careful not to run into the wall! Rowand's much stronger arm (compared to Pods') would make 3B coaches think twice about trying to take that extra base.

I kind of like the idea of getting better OBP in front of Anderson; I think the two of them would be a scrappy at the bottom of the order. I also have a hunch that they would get along well; Rowand's tireless work ethic might rub off on Anderson and Anderson might be able to teach Rowand how to get better reads and run better routes (although the angles are different in LF).

Rollins isn't as fast as Pods, but his greater power still would have him in scoring position via doubles instead of so many singles/walks + steals.

caulfield12
11-25-2006, 10:48 PM
What about signing Julio Lugo To bat leadoff. The guy was great in the AL were he knows all the pitchers. He can also still some bases. Then The Sox can package Juan Uribe and a SP for Vernon Well. The Blue Jays are looking for SP and a SS. You would have a lineup 1. Lugo 2.Wells 3. Dye 4. Thome 5. Konerko 6.Crede 7. A.J 8 Iguchi and 9th Brian Anderson


It's going to take a lot more than Uribe and a starting pitcher to get Wells.