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DaleJRFan
11-20-2006, 11:53 AM
Should Kenny Williams offer David Riske salary arbitration? What's the risk? What if he accepts and signs?

If Riske rejects the Sox offer and signs elsewhere, the Sox get a draft pick. If Riske accepts arbitration from the Sox and signs, we have a decent bullpen arm (can't have enough of those) and would wind up spending around 2m on a one year deal.

What do you guys think? I think its worth it to offer him arbitration. You never know what could happen. He might be good to hang on to, to deepen the bullpen and maybe as injury insurance as well.

CPditka
11-20-2006, 12:07 PM
I was thinking the same thing....

Why not sign & flip him to another team, with RP in such demand, I would think it wouldnt be that hard. Or if he leaves we get a compensatory draft pick.

Worst case hes a pretty good insurance policy and we keep aardsma in the minors?

BanditJimmy
11-20-2006, 12:41 PM
I saw nothing from him last year which makes me want to let a judge (who knows nothing) award him $3 million as the market indicates today.


I think we have plenty of guys in the minors who can be as bad as Riske.... at a $300K cost.

D. TODD
11-20-2006, 12:44 PM
I'm not a fan of Riske at all. I would have no problem seeing him go away!

Sox Fan 35
11-20-2006, 04:37 PM
I like this idea. The draft pick would be nice. I thnk Riske is better than a lot of people here think he is.

the gooch
11-20-2006, 04:50 PM
Is he Type A, B, or C?

Sox Fan 35
11-20-2006, 04:52 PM
A

Ol' No. 2
11-20-2006, 05:35 PM
Assume a 6-man bullpen.

Jenks, Thornton and MacDougal are locks.
Haeger will probably get the long man slot, but even if he doesn't Riske isn't suited for that role anyway.
They will carry another lefty, TBD.

That leaves only one bullpen slot open. I don't think they got Aardsma to send to AAA, so I think he'd have the inside track for that slot. The only way they offer arbitration to Riske is if they had a specific trade in the works. I don't see it happening. Riske will be a NTFA.

SABRSox
11-20-2006, 06:45 PM
I was thinking the same thing....

Why not sign & flip him to another team, with RP in such demand, I would think it wouldnt be that hard.

Sign and trades aren't allowed in MLB. I'm not sure how that works with arb. eligible players, though.

DaleJRFan
11-20-2006, 06:51 PM
Sign and trades aren't allowed in MLB. I'm not sure how that works with arb. eligible players, though.

Riske filed for free agency, so I guess he would be treated as a free agent signing??? :dunno:

QCIASOXFAN
11-20-2006, 07:05 PM
I like Riske for about 5 days when he first came to the Sox, then I realized he stinks. See ya.

jabrch
11-20-2006, 07:21 PM
You definitely offer him arbitration. He will likely want a multi-year deal, which he will get somewhere. So you get a free draft pick for him. Worst case, he accepts, and you have a middle reliever for one year. It's low risk.

Domeshot17
11-20-2006, 07:43 PM
OF COURSE YOU OFFER ARBITRATION.

David Riske will bring back (I believe) a late first round pick and a 1st 2nd Sandwhich.

It would be the most productive thing he did for the south side.

Essentially, you would be trading Lopez and his AAAA career for 2 top prospects. Me Likey

Jerksticks
11-20-2006, 07:58 PM
Evertime Riske comes in the game I find it necessary to :gulp: . a lot .oh wait that was pretty much the whole bullpen except the 3 StudPuds.

caulfield12
11-20-2006, 08:02 PM
OF COURSE YOU OFFER ARBITRATION.

David Riske will bring back (I believe) a late first round pick and a 1st 2nd Sandwhich.

It would be the most productive thing he did for the south side.

Essentially, you would be trading Lopez and his AAAA career for 2 top prospects. Me Likey


Ummm...nobody's going to sign Riske at more than he would get from the White Sox in arbitration. You only get the compensation if you offer AND he leaves.

Then we would be stuck with a $2-3 million dollar reliever we don't even want in our pen.

Domeshot17
11-20-2006, 08:22 PM
Riske will get signed. He would take a 3 year deal at 2 mil per over a 1 year deal at 3 per. the market for RP is really bad this year. If howry got 4.5 per, Riske at 2 is about market.

jabrch
11-20-2006, 08:25 PM
Ummm...nobody's going to sign Riske at more than he would get from the White Sox in arbitration. You only get the compensation if you offer AND he leaves.

Then we would be stuck with a $2-3 million dollar reliever we don't even want in our pen.


3.9 ERA and a 1.3 WHIP...and you don't think someone will give him a multi-year deal? You don't think he will get more than the 2mm he'd get in arbitration? You're nuts. Hell, I dont even think he will accept arbitration.

I'd be happy with him in the pen if we get him at about 2mm. There's no reason to not offer.

SABRSox
11-20-2006, 08:29 PM
I suppose that if we did offer and he signed, even if he didn't start in the pen, he'd be nice insurance.

southside rocks
11-21-2006, 10:52 AM
Should Kenny Williams offer David Riske salary arbitration? What's the risk? What if he accepts and signs?

If Riske rejects the Sox offer and signs elsewhere, the Sox get a draft pick. If Riske accepts arbitration from the Sox and signs, we have a decent bullpen arm (can't have enough of those) and would wind up spending around 2m on a one year deal.

What do you guys think? I think its worth it to offer him arbitration. You never know what could happen. He might be good to hang on to, to deepen the bullpen and maybe as injury insurance as well.

Well, I'm confused. Riske's a free agent. How would arbitration come into it?

He was arbitration-eligible last year, and he was signed to a 1-year contract (in January 2005, I believe) and traded to the Sox. That contract is now up. He's on the market.

He, Hermanson, and Alomar are the only FA's on the Sox team this year. Oh yeah, and Jeff Nelson. Link here: http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/teams/page/CHW

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 11:01 AM
3.9 ERA and a 1.3 WHIP...and you don't think someone will give him a multi-year deal? You don't think he will get more than the 2mm he'd get in arbitration? You're nuts. Hell, I dont even think he will accept arbitration.

I'd be happy with him in the pen if we get him at about 2mm. There's no reason to not offer.

Because that 3.9 ERA was largely earned in "mop up" duty.

He faltered when they really needed him in key 7th and 8th inning "pressure" situations. It's the reason KW didn't want him back in the first place.

It's the reason the Red Sox gave him up for almost nothing.

Chicken Dinner
11-21-2006, 11:04 AM
No thank you. I didn't see anything from him (maybe a few key walks). Non-tendered F/A.

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 11:10 AM
So where's the truth, lol?

He wasn't tendered, meaning he's officically a FA right now.

We can't offer him arbitration...even if we wanted to, which leads one to believe that...

1) KW thought he would be stuck with him (instead of getting Type A FA compensation if he were to leave), and he instead wants to improve the 4/5/6 line in the bullpen, with the Aardsma move being the first step in that direction.

2) KW and OG determined he wasn't a pitcher you could count on like he used to be before giving up the homer to Crede in 2005.

3) KW loves power arms, Riske has a good but not great arm...89-92 MPH fastball, he used to be higher 2-3 seasons ago.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 11:16 AM
So where's the truth, lol?

He wasn't tendered, meaning he's officically a FA right now.

We can't offer him arbitration...even if we wanted to, which leads one to believe that...

1) KW thought he would be stuck with him (instead of getting Type A FA compensation if he were to leave), and he instead wants to improve the 4/5/6 line in the bullpen, with the Aardsma move being the first step in that direction.

2) KW and OG determined he wasn't a pitcher you could count on like he used to be before giving up the homer to Crede in 2005.

3) KW loves power arms, Riske has a good but not great arm...89-92 MPH fastball, he used to be higher 2-3 seasons ago.Teams can offer arbitration to their own FA up until Dec 7.

DaleJRFan
11-21-2006, 11:17 AM
Well, I'm confused. Riske's a free agent. How would arbitration come into it?

He was arbitration-eligible last year, and he was signed to a 1-year contract (in January 2005, I believe) and traded to the Sox. That contract is now up. He's on the market.

He, Hermanson, and Alomar are the only FA's on the Sox team this year. Oh yeah, and Jeff Nelson. Link here: http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/teams/page/CHW

:?:

Because teams can protect themselves by offering their free agent players salary arbitration. If the player rejects and signs elsewhere, then the team receives compensary draft picks. In 2005, the Sox didn't offer Maggs arbitration, so we didn't receive any draft picks when the Tigers signed him. Conversely, the Yankees offered El Duque arbitration and he signed with the Sox, so the Yankees received a compensary draft pick. If the player accepts arbitration, then the player goes to salary arbitration, which seemingly never happens with free agents.

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 11:20 AM
Teams can offer arbitration to their own FA up until Dec 7.

Pods could go either way.

I would be shocked if they offer Riske arbitration though.

If our bullpen 4/5/6 was an obvious weakness, why would we bring back the same player who failed in a set-up role? Isn't that "change of scenery" the reason we dumped Cotts, along with the chance to acquire another "power arm" for Cooper to experiment with?

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 11:25 AM
Pods could go either way.

I would be shocked if they offer Riske arbitration though.

If our bullpen 4/5/6 was an obvious weakness, why would we bring back the same player who failed in a set-up role? Isn't that "change of scenery" the reason we dumped Cotts, along with the chance to acquire another "power arm" for Cooper to experiment with?Pods is not a FA, so they have until Dec 20 to offer him arbitration.

I agree on Riske. I don't see a place in the bullpen for Riske, and I don't see them offering arbitration hoping someone else signs him. Kenny just doesn't work that way.

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 11:28 AM
Pods is not a FA, so they have until Dec 20 to offer him arbitration.

I agree on Riske. I don't see a place in the bullpen for Riske, and I don't see them offering arbitration hoping someone else signs him. Kenny just doesn't work that way.

I've seen different dates.

I thought it was December 12th. Well, at any rate, with Pierre gone and Roberts out of the picture, a trade looks like the only avenue to cure our outfield issues...if KW is looking for a "cure" at all with Anderson and Pods.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 11:38 AM
I've seen different dates.

I thought it was December 12th. Well, at any rate, with Pierre gone and Roberts out of the picture, a trade looks like the only avenue to cure our outfield issues...if KW is looking for a "cure" at all with Anderson and Pods.Dec 7 and 20 were the dates specified in the previous CBA. It's possible they have been changed in the new CBA, but I haven't seen any details, and I wouldn't think it would take effect before being ratified anyway.

Unless KW can get Crawford or some other dark-horse candidate emerges, I'd say it's pretty likely we'll have Pods back next year. There just don't appear to be any better alternatives that are attainable and a real improvement.

DaleJRFan
11-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Pods is not a FA, so they have until Dec 20 to offer him arbitration.

I agree on Riske. I don't see a place in the bullpen for Riske, and I don't see them offering arbitration hoping someone else signs him. Kenny just doesn't work that way.

I guess it boils down to the question of, Is Aardsma better than Riske?? :dunno:

southside rocks
11-21-2006, 11:39 AM
:?:

Because teams can protect themselves by offering their free agent players salary arbitration. If the player rejects and signs elsewhere, then the team receives compensary draft picks. In 2005, the Sox didn't offer Maggs arbitration, so we didn't receive any draft picks when the Tigers signed him. Conversely, the Yankees offered El Duque arbitration and he signed with the Sox, so the Yankees received a compensary draft pick. If the player accepts arbitration, then the player goes to salary arbitration, which seemingly never happens with free agents.

Thanks -- that clears up my confusion. I kept thinking 'he's not arb eligible' but I forgot about the draft pick and arb for FA's. I think my brain is shut down for the off-season. :smile:

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 11:50 AM
I guess it boils down to the question of, Is Aardsma better than Riske?? :dunno:

Or, is Riske better than Haeger or Logan?

Not only that, but is Riske at $2-3 million as a "second team" or mop-up reliever a better investment than a pitcher with more future upside like a Thornton, Jenks, Aardsma type?

We already wasted some bullpen money on Hermanson and Politte last year, I think KW prefers upside at this point with the 4/5/6 spots.

I doubt that means a Montero/Tracey/Diaz/Adkins type with "marginal" stuff.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 11:56 AM
Or, is Riske better than Haeger or Logan?

Not only that, but is Riske at $2-3 million as a "second team" or mop-up reliever a better investment than a pitcher with more future upside like a Thornton, Jenks, Aardsma type?

We already wasted some bullpen money on Hermanson and Politte last year, I think KW prefers upside at this point with the 4/5/6 spots.

I doubt that means a Montero/Tracey/Diaz/Adkins type with "marginal" stuff.Think about who Riske is competing against. Not Logan, he's competing for the second lefty slot. Not Haegar, he'll be looking to make the team as the long man, which Riske isn't suited for. Riske would probably compete with Aardsma, Tracey and/or whoever else they can scrounge up. Ideally, I'd like to see them cut Riske loose, sign someone better and stash Aardsma in AAA as a back-up to bring up if/when someone else fails or gets hurt.

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 12:04 PM
Assuming they decide they need to have a second LOOGY.

They could always go with five righties. I don't think it's a given KW will "force" another lefty like he did with last year's ST fiasco with 10-12 lefties trying out.

Stanton was just signed. We went after Myers. I think he has about 5-10 guys he's looking at, if none of them are acquired, we go with five righties (best arms) instead, hoping that Aardsma emerges in the same way in the same way Thornton and Jenks did.

Hermanson is about a 5% likelihood of coming back, I guess. Maybe less.

DaleJRFan
11-21-2006, 12:22 PM
Assuming they decide they need to have a second LOOGY.

They could always go with five righties. I don't think it's a given KW will "force" another lefty like he did with last year's ST fiasco with 10-12 lefties trying out.

Stanton was just signed. We went after Myers. I think he has about 5-10 guys he's looking at, if none of them are acquired, we go with five righties (best arms) instead, hoping that Aardsma emerges in the same way in the same way Thornton and Jenks did.

Hermanson is about a 5% likelihood of coming back, I guess. Maybe less.

Well, considering the free agent market for relief pitchers, the only viable option for KW is through trade.

Look at this list:

Danys Baez (RHP)
Joe Borowski (RHP)
Chad Bradford (RHP)
Eric Gagne (RHP)
Eddie Guardado (LHP)
LaTroy Hawkins (RHP)
Roberto Hernandez (RHP)
Ray King (LHP)
Steve Kline (LHP)
Dan Kolb (RHP)
Kent Mercker (LHP)
Jose Mesa (RHP)
J.C. Romero (LHP)
Scott Schoeneweis (LHP)
Rudy Seanez (RHP)
Russ Springer (RHP)
Tanyon Sturtze (RHP)
Ron Villone (LHP)

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 12:58 PM
Well, considering the free agent market for relief pitchers, the only viable option for KW is through trade.

Look at this list:

Danys Baez (RHP)
Joe Borowski (RHP)
Chad Bradford (RHP)
Eric Gagne (RHP)
Eddie Guardado (LHP)
LaTroy Hawkins (RHP)
Roberto Hernandez (RHP)
Ray King (LHP)
Steve Kline (LHP)
Dan Kolb (RHP)
Kent Mercker (LHP)
Jose Mesa (RHP)
J.C. Romero (LHP)
Scott Schoeneweis (LHP)
Rudy Seanez (RHP)
Russ Springer (RHP)
Tanyon Sturtze (RHP)
Ron Villone (LHP)

No sure things there. Lots of possibilities and "hope" for the next Cliff Politte, Jamie Walker or Dennis Reyes...but who can be certain? Lots of relievers on the wrong side of 30.

Gagne is the name that stands out, and that's because he's coming off an injury. Maybe Kolb and Kline.....Kline was very reliable until a couple of seasons ago. Would have to see if his velocity is still there.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 01:02 PM
Well, considering the free agent market for relief pitchers, the only viable option for KW is through trade.

Look at this list:

Danys Baez (RHP)
Joe Borowski (RHP)
Chad Bradford (RHP)
Eric Gagne (RHP)
Eddie Guardado (LHP)
LaTroy Hawkins (RHP)
Roberto Hernandez (RHP)
Ray King (LHP)
Steve Kline (LHP)
Dan Kolb (RHP)
Kent Mercker (LHP)
Jose Mesa (RHP)
J.C. Romero (LHP)
Scott Schoeneweis (LHP)
Rudy Seanez (RHP)
Russ Springer (RHP)
Tanyon Sturtze (RHP)
Ron Villone (LHP)I don't see what's wrong with that list. Remember we're talking about middle relievers. By definition, they're the weakest pitchers in your staff. There are a number of guys on that list I wouldn't mind having. Several of the righties would be preferred over Riske for the same money.

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 01:05 PM
Four of them used to pitch for the White Sox.

Lip Man 1
11-21-2006, 01:05 PM
Depending on the price I could easily see two or three names on that list that I'd like to see in a Sox uniform.

Lip

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 01:06 PM
Depending on the price being the key part of your sentence.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 01:16 PM
Depending on the price being the key part of your sentence.I agree with Lip. Those guys are not going to get big bucks. There may be some fool who throws money at one or two of them, but for the most part, they're going to sign for $3-4M, or similar to what Riske would get in arbitration. For the same money, there are several I'd rather have than Riske.

Chicken Dinner
11-21-2006, 01:58 PM
Assuming they decide they need to have a second LOOGY.

They could always go with five righties. I don't think it's a given KW will "force" another lefty like he did with last year's ST fiasco with 10-12 lefties trying out.

Ozzie has to have his lefty/lefty matchups.

the gooch
11-21-2006, 02:24 PM
I'm afraid that offering arbitration will cost any team signing him a 1st rd pick. His value will drop so much that he will accept arbitration.

Can we offer to pay half of his salary to play for another team?:redneck

soxinem1
11-21-2006, 09:44 PM
I think it would depend on how he is throwing. Someone will sign him, and at most for two years, but it won't be a team like KC or TB, they wouldn't want to give up the draft pick(s).

If he's throwing well, I say offer him. He could always be included in a trade (TEX, NYM need BP arms).

Of course, we could always trade him to the cubs for Zambrano......:rolleyes:

caulfield12
11-21-2006, 10:08 PM
I think it would depend on how he is throwing. Someone will sign him, and at most for two years, but it won't be a team like KC or TB, they wouldn't want to give up the draft pick(s).

If he's throwing well, I say offer him. He could always be included in a trade (TEX, NYM need BP arms).

Of course, we could always trade him to the cubs for Zambrano......:rolleyes:


How would we know if he's going to throw well in 2007 by next month?

soxinem1
11-21-2006, 11:00 PM
How would we know if he's going to throw well in 2007 by next month?

Pay him a visit and have him throw off a mound, I guess.

I'm sure he would rather have the chance to return to the contending White Sox, but I'm not really sure how teams handle that stuff.