PDA

View Full Version : Cubs on the verge of signing Soriano?


JermaineDye05
11-19-2006, 01:59 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6188248

I'll believe it when I see it.

Consider the source though, same guy who said the sox were on the verge of trading JG.

russ99
11-19-2006, 02:03 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6188248

I'll believe it when I see it.

Consider the source though, same guy who said the sox were on the verge of trading JG.

Also, the Astros and Phillies made him offers late this week.

If his agent is any kind of swindler (oops! I mean good), he'll let all 3 teams bid against each other for a week to drive the price up.

WizardsofOzzie
11-19-2006, 02:07 PM
Hope not, i bet a six pack with my friend that the Cubs wouldn't sign any of the big free agents this year (zito, soriano, schmidt)

patbooyah
11-19-2006, 02:09 PM
reports are that this "cubs deal" could be for as much as 135 million over 8 years. wow. that probably isn't worth the money next season. paying 17-20 mil in 8 seasons?! when he's 39?! hahahaha!

Fenway
11-19-2006, 02:14 PM
ESPN.com has the same story

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2668465

Chicago radio station ESPN 1000 reported Sunday that the Cubs have signed outfielder Alfonso Soriano (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6154) to an eight-year contract worth approximately $136 million

JUribe1989
11-19-2006, 02:15 PM
Rosenthal is wrong usually 98% of the time. But is this is true, Soriano is a great hitter that will probably hit 40+ HR's every year he is healthy. Will the Cubs be any better? Not without any pitching! :D:

Oblong
11-19-2006, 02:17 PM
Soriano's a great example of the diffrence between fantasy baseball value and real baseball value. In 2009 or 2010 years the Cubs will be looking to dump him, a la the Red Sox and Manny Ramirez.

Jerko
11-19-2006, 02:19 PM
So they basically have Sosa back.

chisoxmike
11-19-2006, 02:20 PM
Seems like this is pretty much a done deal. Damn.

joebro25
11-19-2006, 02:20 PM
Just saw this on foxsports as well. If this is true, I think the Cubs officially are the dumbest team in sports. 8 years!?!? thats insane. Like someone said before he'll be 39 when the contract expires. He's not gonna be a 40/40 guy anymore in 3 years let alone 8.

CLR01
11-19-2006, 02:23 PM
This means we don't have to read anymore Soriano to the Sox/missing piece threads ever again and that alone makes this the best deal ever.



Thanks Cubs!


:supernana: :gulp: :bandance: :gulp: :supernana:

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 02:28 PM
Overpaid.

Fenway
11-19-2006, 02:28 PM
damn I was hoping the Cubs would take Manny :mad:

Slats
11-19-2006, 02:34 PM
Soriano to the flubs (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2668465)

FedEx227
11-19-2006, 02:35 PM
Haha. Team Hustle!

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 02:36 PM
This is how the Cubs run a buisness. Overpay for players. Nice.

oldcomiskey
11-19-2006, 02:36 PM
at that price they can have him

MrX
11-19-2006, 02:37 PM
Like I said before, Hendry is going to go out the door burying that team in bad contracts while not bothering to address their biggest need.

FedEx227
11-19-2006, 02:39 PM
This is a deal of Allan Houston/Penny Hardaway ridiculousness.


Do they now realize that he is completely untradable for the next decade?!

esbrechtel
11-19-2006, 02:42 PM
thats the final piece of the puzzle for the cubs! now they have soild pitching and with soriano in the OF they have solid d as well!

oeo
11-19-2006, 02:44 PM
This is actually quite funny. That's a lot of years and a lot of money. Soriano will hit a lot of homeruns in that little league field, though.

Cubs are going to the World Series!

Fenway
11-19-2006, 02:46 PM
This is a deal of Allan Houston/Penny Hardaway ridiculousness.


Do they now realize that he is completely untradable for the next decade?!


They don't care as there will be new owners soon. They want a winner in 2007 to inflate the price of the team. Boston saw the same thing when Harrington and Duquette overpaid for Manny.

ilsox7
11-19-2006, 02:48 PM
Didn't realize Soriano could pitch...

russ99
11-19-2006, 02:50 PM
They don't care as there will be new owners soon. They want a winner in 2007 to inflate the price of the team. Boston saw the same thing when Harrington and Duquette overpaid for Manny.

Soriano didn't make the Nationals a winner, and they had arguably a better team than the Cubs. Unless they have another 20 million magic dollars, there's no way the Cubs get the pitching to make them a contender.

By the way, Alphonso... looks like you won't be playing 2nd base on the northside! :tongue:

Fenway
11-19-2006, 02:52 PM
Tribune confirms deal

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061119cubssoriano,1,6514808.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

By Paul Sullivan
Tribune staff reporter

November 19, 2006, 2:26 PM CST


The Cubs made the biggest splash of the off-season on Sunday, reeling in free agent Alfonso Soriano with an eight-year deal worth an estimated $136 million.

The deal is contingent on Soriano passing a physical, major league sources said, and is expected to be announced on Monday.

ilsox7
11-19-2006, 02:52 PM
By the way, Alphonso... looks like you won't be playing 2nd base on the northside! :tongue:

The only reason he "cared" about his position was for the contract he wanted. His numbers as a 2nd baseman look much, much better than that of a corner outfielder. That's why he didn't want to switch position. He couldn't care less now that he got his coin.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 02:53 PM
If true, this is the most inept signing this most inept franchise has every made. I predict at least one, if not a combination of many of these events, will happen:

1. The Cubs have priced themselves out of improving their pitching staff for a long time to come;

2. The Cubs will have to get rid of all the rest of their high-priced, talented players in order to shed enough payroll in order to sell the team (8 years at $135 million is NOT a deal that lends itself to trades!);

3. The payroll obligations will scare away a number of potential buyers for the team;

4. The team will continue to lose;

5. Fans will begin to desert the team and the franchise will lose market share to the Sox; leading to a decrease in value of the franchise;

6. Lou Piniella will not last very long as manager (he'll either quit or be fired);

7. This only prolongs the "agony" Cubs fans must suffer before the team must be "blown up" and start from scratch.

Yep, this is a GREAT day for the White Sox.

:bandance:

russ99
11-19-2006, 02:54 PM
This is the funniest part of that story!

While the Cubs were one of about a half dozen teams who reportedly were in pursuit of Soriano, they got their man before anyone else had a chance to turn it into a bidding war.

The $17 million per year annual average salary...

Who are they kidding? As if they got him cheap?!?

MrX
11-19-2006, 02:58 PM
While the Cubs were one of about a half dozen teams who reportedly were in pursuit of Soriano, they got their man before anyone else had a chance to turn it into a bidding war.
You get that when you put "Only the Cubs were dumb enough to give him what he wanted" into the Cubune spin machine.

Domeshot17
11-19-2006, 03:08 PM
Per ESPN.com 8 years 136 million dollars.

Alot of years and money for a 31 year old

MiamiSpartan
11-19-2006, 03:11 PM
But a 31 year old who could hit 50 HR and bring the team, along with a healthy Derrick Lee, back into contention. The re-signing of Kerry Wood, tho, was pretty stupid. They need to totally overhaul their starting pitching.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:12 PM
The Cubs are spending $17M/year on Soriano and $14.6M/year on Ramirez. That's $31.6 M/year on two RHB sluggers who strike out a ton and play awful defense. Are you kidding me? I've been hard on Konerko (mostly because I think $12M/year is too much for a slugger), but compared to these two clowns, I'd much rather give the cash to PK.

The Cubs should be forced to play in the American League. They have two designated hitters on their roster!
:rolling:

Now Paul Sullivan talks about them focusing on signing one or possibly two starting pitchers. Who? Tanyon Sturtze and Jim Parque?
:kukoo:

Note to Tribune Company: No wonder your company is bleeding cash. Your business accumen is TERRIBLE. This is not the way to increase the value of your franchise! I'd rather invest in Enron stock than Tribune stock right now.
:roflmao:

jabrch
11-19-2006, 03:12 PM
Pretty much the same type of deal that Carlos Beltran got - interesting.

ilsox7
11-19-2006, 03:13 PM
The re-signing of Kerry Wood, tho, was pretty stupid. They need to totally overhaul their starting pitching.

They got Wood fo next to nothing. It was actually a good signing. Best case scenario he is good out of the bullpen while possibly becoming a starter after 2007. Worst case scenario they lose $1.75MM, which is nothing for them.

Little money for a potentially high reward. Not a bad thing.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:14 PM
Pretty much the same type of deal that Carlos Beltran got - interesting.

For an older, inferior player. Soriano was moved to LF because he SUCKS as an infielder. His arm is so terrible that so many runners ran on him that he lucked into 20 sitting ducks, er, assists.

Beltran at least proved himself to be clutch in the postseason and can play a very good CF.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:16 PM
But a 31 year old who could hit 50 HR and bring the team, along with a healthy Derrick Lee, back into contention. The re-signing of Kerry Wood, tho, was pretty stupid. They need to totally overhaul their starting pitching.

The only thing that makes a team so stupid and so awful a "contender" in the NL is that the NL is so despicably pathetic that an 83-win Cardinals team beat the best of the rest in the league!

What pitchers can the Cubs now afford to sign? Tanyon Strutze and Jim Parque?

Domeshot17
11-19-2006, 03:16 PM
the big differences though are Beltran got it years younger.

Soriano will really improve that team, but, that money is really going to hurt.

They have now have 45 million tied into 3 players, Lee, Soriano, and Aramis. This is really going to hurt when Prior comes up to be resigned, as well as zambrano. After those 2, the will be looking at a team with 70 million tied up in 5 players.

and, personally, I think the Kerry Wood signing was a great deal. He will become their closer, and if he can stay healthy in the pen, he should really be an improvement over dumpster.

SOXSINCE'70
11-19-2006, 03:18 PM
Beltran at least proved himself to be clutch in the postseason

Not in 2006.Strike 3 looking to end the NLCS??:o: :o:
C'mon,Carlos.You've got to at least try to hit the ball.
With runners on base and the team in a position to
tie the game,IMHO,you've got to go down swinging.

buehrle4cy05
11-19-2006, 03:18 PM
Did I miss a memo? Can Soriano pitch?

4th place at best. :rolling:

soxwon
11-19-2006, 03:21 PM
ESPN is reporting the cubs have signed Soriano to a 8 year $136 mill deal.
Damn it all !!!

chisoxmike
11-19-2006, 03:22 PM
What's the ratio of home run's Soriano will hit and home run's given up by the Cubs pitching staff for 2007? :dunno:

SOXSINCE'70
11-19-2006, 03:22 PM
What pitchers can the Cubs now afford to sign? Tanyon Strutze and Jim Parque?


What about Cal Eldred,Mike Sirotka and James Baldwin??:roflmao: :roflmao:
Nothing like a reunion of the 2000 White Sox starting staff.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:22 PM
Not in 2006.Strike 3 looking to end the NLCS??:o: :o:
C'mon,Carlos.You've got to at least try to hit the ball.

Soriano won't sniff the postseason as long as he is a Cub. Book it.

The Sox have tied up a huge chunk of their payroll in starting pitching. The Cubs have tied up a huge chunk of their payroll in three right-handed sluggers, two of whom should be designated hitters and the other who only can play first base.

Plus, the Cubs are surrendering draft choices with all these free-agent signings. It's hard to develop players when you can't draft them in the first place.

Barring catastropic injury to the Sox rotation, I see no reason why the Sox won't continue to outperform the Cubs by a huge margin for the next eight years.

FedEx227
11-19-2006, 03:22 PM
What's the ratio of home run's Soriano will hit and home run's given up by the Cubs pitching staff for 2007? :dunno:

Carlos Marmol = Cy Young

soxwon
11-19-2006, 03:23 PM
sorry didnt see other thread. please delete

chisoxmike
11-19-2006, 03:23 PM
Carlos Marmol = Cy Young

:tealpolice:

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:24 PM
ESPN is reporting the cubs have signed Soriano to a 8 year $136 mill deal.
Damn it all !!!

soxwon, instead of crying in your beer, crack open a bottle of champagne. The Cubs have just screwed themselves royally.

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2006, 03:25 PM
I hope they realize he is no better than Michael Barrett.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 03:27 PM
Per ESPN.com 8 years 136 million dollars.

Alot of years and money for a 31 year old

Remember, Jim Hendry is a great GM.:talktothehand:

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:29 PM
What's really funny is that this contract runs longer than I might expect Wrigley Field to remain structurally sound.
:rolling:

SOXSINCE'70
11-19-2006, 03:29 PM
Overpaid.

And Over-rated(clap,clap,clap-clap-clap).

buehrle4cy05
11-19-2006, 03:31 PM
Let's compare the two biggest contracts of the past three years:

Carlos Beltran got a 7-year, $115 million deal after setting the postseason HR record and leading the Astros to the playoffs.

Alfonso Soriano got an 8-year, $136 million deal after a 40/40 season, which led the Nationals to last in the NL East.

I'm guessing Soriano leads off for the Cubs. So, the Cubs will inherit a leadoff hitter who struck out 160 times in 2006 and who had an on-base percentage of .309 two years ago, when he was in Texas.

Soriano is a good player, but no way he's worth that contract.

And, once again, he can't pitch.

Jjav829
11-19-2006, 03:32 PM
Wow. Shocked the hell out of me when I flipped over to ESPNews after the Bears game and saw that in their little "Breaking News" box on the bottom right part of the screen.

Bad signing. Soriano is a dynamic player, but 8-years and $136 million? Yikes. There are very few players I'd feel comfortable signing to an 8-year deal, and Soriano is not one of them.

They could have spent that money more wisely. And hey, maybe they will still spend more and go get Zito. They've already spent $200+ million this offseason, and they still haven't added a single starting pitcher. At this rate, they may have to rely on Cotts to start.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:34 PM
At this rate, they may have to rely on Cotts to start the second game of the year!

Fixed it for you.... :D:

ilsox7
11-19-2006, 03:35 PM
They could have spent that money more wisely. And hey, maybe they will still spend more and go get Zito. They've already spent $200+ million this offseason, and they still haven't added a single starting pitcher. At this rate, they may have to rely on Cotts to start.

They could have won the posting and signed the Japanese pitcher and still had cash left over for this type of money.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 03:35 PM
And Over-rated(clap,clap,clap-clap-clap).

Yes he is. They want him to play CF? :?:

FedEx227
11-19-2006, 03:37 PM
Yes he is. They want him to play CF? :?:

He had 20 assists!! Clearly means hes capable of playing CF. Not like it requires and real talent, skill or experience.

buehrle4cy05
11-19-2006, 03:37 PM
Yes he is. They want him to play CF? :?:

:rolling:

This gets even more comical by the minute.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 03:38 PM
:rolling:

This gets even more comical by the minute.

That will be interesting.:rolling:

Jjav829
11-19-2006, 03:41 PM
They could have won the posting and signed the Japanese pitcher and still had cash left over for this type of money.

What would you rather have (and for about similar money)?

Soriano?

or...

Zito, Drew and Pierre/Roberts?

I realize it's a bit more complicted than I make it seem, but it's pretty clear to me which scenario makes the Cubs a better team. For $136 million, the Cubs could have added a very good starter, as well as a 2nd lefty, to their rotation. Roberts or re-signing Pierre still gives them a leadoff man with speed and Drew would have provided a quality lefty for them to mix into the middle of their lineup.

Like I said, who knows, maybe the Tribune is going all out and will still allow Hendry to chase after Zito. But I think they could have found a much better use for that money.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:41 PM
I bet Soriano's K numbers increase. The short LCF and RCF gaps will entice him and he'll start aiming for the Sandberg basket. He'll probably hit 50 homers but whiff 200 times. He'll also probably steal 30 bases but he will walk far less than Juan Pierre does and his OBP will drop, too. Yep, a perfect leadoff hitter for the Cubs!

What's funny is that CF might not be hard for him to field at Wrigley as the very short gaps make Wigley's total CF territory much smaller than the average MLB park. The bad thing, though, is that his arm is weak compared to the average second baseman!

The Cubs are constructing a true beer-league softball team. They already have the sunscreen and the beer. Now they just need some 16-inch balls.

buehrle4cy05
11-19-2006, 03:44 PM
:KW
*Sits back and smiles, realizing he caused all this*

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:45 PM
He had 20 assists!! Clearly means hes capable of playing CF. Not like it requires and real talent, skill or experience.

What Soriano getting 20 assists really means is that his arm is so terrible that an astronomical amount of runners tried to take the extra base on him. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while, right? Well, even a gimp-armed left fielder gets an assist, especially when lame ducks are trying to waddle their way to second or third when they wouldn't even consider it if anyone else was playing left. I think Frank Thomas may have a better throwing arm than Soriano does.

Kub_Killer_15
11-19-2006, 03:45 PM
OVERPAID!!!:redneck

SOXSINCE'70
11-19-2006, 03:47 PM
Yes he is. They want him to play CF? :?:
It will be fun to play the sCrUBS 6 times this season.
What's the early over/under on the # of whiffs
Sore-knee-ano has aginst Sox pitching??:roflmao: :roflmao:

FedEx227
11-19-2006, 03:47 PM
What Soriano getting 20 assists really means is that his arm is so terrible that an astronomical amount of runners tried to take the extra base on him. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while, right? Well, even a gimp-armed left fielder gets an assist, especially when lame ducks are trying to waddle their way to second or third when they wouldn't even consider it if anyone else was playing left. I think Frank Thomas may have a better throwing arm than Soriano does.

Don't have to tell me, I was just joking. Unfortunately most people don't think logically or break things down in a way that actually makes sense. The fact that he had 20 assists = hes a great defensive LF which couldn't be farther from the truth. But hey I hope they put him in CF, its always nice to get a laugh.

buehrle4cy05
11-19-2006, 03:48 PM
Don't have to tell me, I was just joking. Unfortunately most people don't think logically or break things down in a way that actually makes sense. The fact that he had 20 assists = hes a great defensive LF which couldn't be farther from the truth. But hey I hope they put him in CF, its always nice to get a laugh.

If you thought Mack was bad in center this year, watch a Cubs game with Soriano in center next year...

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:50 PM
Don't have to tell me, I was just joking. Unfortunately most people don't think logically or break things down in a way that actually makes sense. The fact that he had 20 assists = hes a great defensive LF which couldn't be farther from the truth. But hey I hope they put him in CF, its always nice to get a laugh.

I always knew Sox fans were the smartest fans in baseball.

Today proves that Sox fans would be better GMs than Jim Hendry. The only reason Hendry has any credibilty left is because he's not the worst GM in the majors. That distinction belongs to the Pirates GM, who actually has helped Hendry both by being completely inept and by giving talent away to Hendry.

ilsox7
11-19-2006, 03:50 PM
What would you rather have (and for about similar money)?

Soriano?

or...

Zito, Drew and Pierre/Roberts?

I realize it's a bit more complicted than I make it seem, but it's pretty clear to me which scenario makes the Cubs a better team. For $136 million, the Cubs could have added a very good starter, as well as a 2nd lefty, to their rotation. Roberts or re-signing Pierre still gives them a leadoff man with speed and Drew would have provided a quality lefty for them to mix into the middle of their lineup.

Like I said, who knows, maybe the Tribune is going all out and will still allow Hendry to chase after Zito. But I think they could have found a much better use for that money.

Agreed. I mean, the NL is pretty bad, so any time can go into the season with high hopes. But when you don't have a starting pitching staff, those hopes become pretty bleak. Maybe they are headed toward a $150MM payroll, which should make all of those Tribune Company shareholders thrilled.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:51 PM
If you thought Mack was bad in center this year, watch a Cubs game with Soriano in center next year...

Maybe KW could trade Mackowiak to the Cubs. It would improve the CF situation on both teams!

SOXSINCE'70
11-19-2006, 03:52 PM
:rowand :gun :timo: :minnie :anderson:
Believe it or not,these are better CF's than Alfonso Sore-knee-ano.:D:

dickallen15
11-19-2006, 03:53 PM
For an older, inferior player. Soriano was moved to LF because he SUCKS as an infielder. His arm is so terrible that so many runners ran on him that he lucked into 20 sitting ducks, er, assists.

Beltran at least proved himself to be clutch in the postseason and can play a very good CF.
Soriano actually has a very good arm. Many scouts, including White Sox scouts think he could be a very good outfielder. The Cubs are going for it. They are going to up their payroll significantly in an effort to do that. It might not be the wisest move, but when a team wins 83 games and a WS, it gives even the hopeless hope. Lee being hurt devastated them, but he wouldn't have made the difference between being in the cellar and making the playoffs. Their offense now is fantastic. They probably will get at least one FA pitcher like Ted Lilly. As far as ruining the sale value of the team, they have been blown away by the offers they have been getting and haven't even put the team on the market yet. If somehow they won 83 games and got into the playoffs and won a WS, the sale price of the team would rise significantly. Technically it might not make sense, but people buying baseball teams have huge egos, and know the value of these franchises especially a team like the Cubs isn't going to drop in the future. They continue to rise. I think the Cubs upping the payroll shows their fans how much profit this team makes.

Kub_Killer_15
11-19-2006, 03:53 PM
So when hes 38 and really horrible cubs are still paying him 17 million a year! Priceless!

Brian26
11-19-2006, 03:54 PM
The Cubs are spending $17M/year on Soriano and $14.6M/year on Ramirez. That's $31.6 M/year on two RHB sluggers who strike out a ton and play awful defense. Are you kidding me?

That's almost criminal. I believe I read somewhere that the Marlins entire '06 payroll was around $30 million.

Also consider that this is going to put the Scrubs way over the cap, so now they'll be paying a larger tax in the coming years too.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 03:56 PM
If the Cubs have told Paul Sullivan that they plan to play Soriano in CF, and if they really are "going for it," I'm forced to wonder if they plan to make a run at J.D. Drew or Carlos Lee.

No wonder the Cubs are assembling so many sluggers - Jim Hendry's building his team on his brand new PS3!

samram
11-19-2006, 03:57 PM
So in the aggregate here, the Cubs have added about $12M to payroll and no starting pitching. Very well, carry on. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about Wade Miller. Hehehehehe.

Brian26
11-19-2006, 03:59 PM
Soriano actually has a very good arm. Many scouts, including White Sox scouts think he could be a very good outfielder. The Cubs are going for it. They are going to up their payroll significantly in an effort to do that. It might not be the wisest move, but when a team wins 83 games and a WS, it gives even the hopeless hope.

What they have going for them is that the National League is a joke.

What they have going against them is that very, very rarely can you buy a World Championship. The '05 White Sox did it the right way, with a group of talented, under-appreciated players that played together under strong leadership and played to their potential. The only team I can think of in the last 20 years that successfully bought a World Series title was the '97 Marlins. You could possibly make a case for those late 90's Yankees teams, but I always considered them to have a group of overachieving players and guys who came up through the Yankees sytem.

SOXSINCE'70
11-19-2006, 04:03 PM
No wonder the Cubs are assembling so many sluggers - Jim Hendry's building his team on his brand new PS3!

Either that or it's Home Run Derby time.:D: :D:

But the question still remains:to paraphrase Harry Caray
at Tom Trebelhorn's 1994 introduction as sCrUBS manager
press conference, "Where's the pitching??" If you bank everything
on Lame-Braino and Prior,you will be sorely dissapointed.

SOXSINCE'70
11-19-2006, 04:09 PM
So in the aggregate here, the Cubs have added about $12M to payroll and no starting pitching. Very well, carry on. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about Wade Miller. Hehehehehe.

You also forgot about Rich Hill,Carlos "Cy Young" Marmol
and Sean Marshall.Those names should strike the fear of
God into National League hearts everywhere.:kneeslap:

RadioheadRocks
11-19-2006, 04:17 PM
What they have going for them is that the National League is a joke.

What they have going against them is that very, very rarely can you buy a World Championship. The '05 White Sox did it the right way, with a group of talented, under-appreciated players that played together under strong leadership and played to their potential. The only team I can think of in the last 20 years that successfully bought a World Series title was the '97 Marlins. You could possibly make a case for those late 90's Yankees teams, but I always considered them to have a group of overachieving players and guys who came up through the Yankees sytem.

Let's not forget this is the same team that tried to buy a WILD CARD a couple years ago when they signed Nomar Garciaparra, and we all know how THAT turned out! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Gavin
11-19-2006, 04:19 PM
Uh yeah... you can't buy a World Series? Forget about the Yankees?

FedEx227
11-19-2006, 04:22 PM
Uh yeah... you can't buy a World Series? Forget about the Yankees?

# of World Series titles for the Yanks since 2001 = Zero

The previous Yanks WS wins were teams made up of hard-working guys that came up in the Yankees system spliced together with underachievers who found their niche (Paul O'Neil) since they adapted the "buy" a WS title mentality they haven't won a thing.

Brian26
11-19-2006, 04:26 PM
Uh yeah... you can't buy a World Series? Forget about the Yankees?

No, I didn't forget. I knew someone was going to bring this up. I hate to defend the Yankees, but I consider those late 90's teams pretty good baseball teams that were built around a core of young guys that came up through their sytem. Think about Jeter, Bernie, Rivera, Posada, Pettite. Then you had some guys who were signed as medium-scale free agents, but they weren't break-the-bank type of guys: ie Paul ONeill, David Wells. And then you had some veteran guys they picked up on the cheap: Tim Raines, Cone, Strawberry.

Since the Yankees really got crazy signing free agents to astronomical contracts, they haven't won anything (Mussina, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui, etc).

Gavin
11-19-2006, 04:27 PM
The Yankees have had a hell of a lot of chances since 2001. If you are finding yourselves in the playoffs year after year, you're probably doing something right.

goon
11-19-2006, 04:30 PM
despite, obviously hating the cubs, i think the cubs are missing the chance to fill a lot of the holes they have by spending 135+ million on only one player.

of course this doesn't mean that can't develop a team over the next few years, but they still have no starting pitching, no bullpen....

FedEx227
11-19-2006, 04:31 PM
But then they haven't "BOUGHT" themselves a World Series. They've merely bought them a trip to the playoffs.

Gavin
11-19-2006, 04:32 PM
But then they haven't "BOUGHT" themselves a World Series. They've merely bought them a trip to the playoffs.

I know, you're right about this point. As a business though, which is what the Yankees are, investing a boatload of money into players has probably worked out well enough.

Brian26
11-19-2006, 04:34 PM
I know, you're right about this point. As a business though, which is what the Yankees are, investing a boatload of money into players has probably worked out well enough.

So they didn't buy a World Series title?

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 04:35 PM
Pop the champagne in Cubbieville.:roflmao:

goon
11-19-2006, 04:37 PM
Pop the champagne in Cubbieville.:roflmao:

:tealpolice:

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 04:37 PM
:tealpolice:

Lame picture.

goon
11-19-2006, 04:37 PM
Pop the champagne in Cubbieville.:roflmao::tealpolice:



again

goon
11-19-2006, 04:38 PM
Lame picture.


:?:

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 04:38 PM
:tealpolice:



again

I'm sorry that i don't know what the sarcasm color is on here. Jeez.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 04:39 PM
:tealtutor:

Thank you. I'm a dumbass.

chisoxmike
11-19-2006, 04:39 PM
Lame picture.
:rolleyes:

goon
11-19-2006, 04:40 PM
I'm sorry that i don't know what the sarcasm color is on here. Jeez.


i accept your apology.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 04:40 PM
:rolleyes:

It was going to be sarcasm.:rolleyes:

buehrle4cy05
11-19-2006, 04:43 PM
# of World Series titles for the Yanks since 2001 = Zero

The previous Yanks WS wins were teams made up of hard-working guys that came up in the Yankees system spliced together with underachievers who found their niche (Paul O'Neil) since they adapted the "buy" a WS title mentality they haven't won a thing.

Bingo. If you don't believe him, read The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty by Buster Olney.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 04:44 PM
Maybe we can acquire Mark Prior?!

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 04:47 PM
:tomatoaward

Never has a franchise been more deserving of a rotten tomato than the Cubs.

Hitmen77
11-19-2006, 04:48 PM
Wow, $17 million for 8 years - that's insane! Where does this put the Cubs payroll at right now? Are they going to trigger the luxury tax?

The Yanks and Red Sox have gotten alot of grief from people (and rightfully so) for spending like crazy and driving up salaries. Watch how the media stays silent on the Cubs being guilty of doing the same thing.

StillMissOzzie
11-19-2006, 05:06 PM
Maybe KW could trade Mackowiak to the Cubs. It would improve the CF situation on both teams!

LMAO!!! :roflmao: :rolling:

SMO
:gulp:

ZombieRob
11-19-2006, 05:25 PM
Well the Cubs should hit alot of homers .But, man so far they may have the worst outfield in baseball ,not a good thing in that sandbox they play in .And the human walk-a-thon is going to close for them,and who do they have beyond Zambrano and perhaps a washed up Prior ?

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 05:25 PM
I just heard it was 6 years/90 mil. No matter what, he's overpaid.

pearso66
11-19-2006, 05:27 PM
I just heard it was 6 years/90 mil. No matter what, he's overpaid.

6/90 is WAY better than the earlier reported deal. But yes, he's still overpaid.

Soxfanspcu11
11-19-2006, 06:32 PM
:rolleyes:

HO HUM.

The flubs ineptitude continues. They continue to overpay for players, both of the all-star and bench variety.

Not only do they SEVERELY overpay players, they continue to get all the WRONG players.

How is signing Soriano going to dramatically help this team?? It wont, not unless he is currently learning how to pitch.

The cubs have some very serious weaknesses, and they don't seem to be very interested in addressing them. Of more importance seems to be the desire to land big name players to fill the stands, irregardless of whether that particular player is a good fit or not. Of course, the same old song continues.

I'm not necessarily saying that signing Soriano will hurt the cubs, that we will have to wait and see how it plays out.

However, I do plan on laughing my ass off when come June 2007, the cubs are 10 games back in the division and Soriano starts demanding a trade, then refuses to play, and another move explodes in the face of this organization.

As someone who can not stand the cubs, I am VERY pleased to hear of this signing.:gulp:

veeter
11-19-2006, 06:34 PM
I've read every post in this thread. You're all right on. However, I dread, not the truth, but what is going to be reported by "intelligent" Chicago reporters over the next 3 months. They'll say "Hendry is a genious", "The Cubs are poised to make a run" and so forth. Hell, the national media will even say this was a great signing. All of us Sox fans will smirk, knowing the truth. But I can't take the hype. I wish opening day was tomorrow, so the "wow factor" cubs could begin their journey to a fifth place finish. Man I ****in hate the cubs.

peeonwrigley
11-19-2006, 06:52 PM
The cubs have some very serious weaknesses, and they don't seem to be very interested in addressing them. Of more importance seems to be the desire to land big name players to fill the stands, irregardless of whether that particular player is a good fit or not. Of course, the same old song continues.


*paging kittle42*

ChiSox14305635
11-19-2006, 07:16 PM
I just heard it was 6 years/90 mil. No matter what, he's overpaid.

There's also 2 option years in that deal.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 07:19 PM
There's also 2 option years in that deal.
They need pitching.

goon
11-19-2006, 07:22 PM
i think anyone will agree that 6/90 million dollar contract is much more reasonable, i'm just confused where the hell they are going to play the guy. i've read CF and RF, both positions he would probably suck ass at.

he has great power and speed, but that's about it. he doesn't get on base. he doesn't walk, i don't think he bunts and he is still a developing as an outfielder... at 30 years old. on the right team, soriano could be a huge piece, on the cubs it just seems like an awkward fit.

plus, they still don't have any pitching. it will be very interesting to see how high the cubs payroll will be for '07.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 07:24 PM
plus, they still don't have any pitching. it will be very interesting to see how high the cubs payroll will be for '07.

Watch them overpay for Gil Meche.:wink:

ChiSox14305635
11-19-2006, 07:25 PM
They need pitching.

They need alot of things. Starting pitching, relief pitching, better coaches, better management......

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 07:26 PM
They need alot of things. Starting pitching, relief pitching, better coaches, better management......

Wait, i thought Jim Hendry is a genious?

CLR01
11-19-2006, 07:36 PM
I've read every post in this thread. You're all right on. However, I dread, not the truth, but what is going to be reported by "intelligent" Chicago reporters over the next 3 months. They'll say "Hendry is a genious", "The Cubs are poised to make a run" and so forth. Hell, the national media will even say this was a great signing. All of us Sox fans will smirk, knowing the truth. But I can't take the hype. I wish opening day was tomorrow, so the "wow factor" cubs could begin their journey to a fifth place finish. Man I ****in hate the cubs.



Don't dread it. They report it the same way every offseason and every year the Cubs make them look like fools. This year will be no different.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-19-2006, 07:37 PM
There's one guy I'm very interested in hearing from on the Cubs; Derek Lee. he's perhaps their best player but he just saw Aramis Ramirez get $14+ mill per and now Alfonso Soriano gets $17 mill per. Wasn't it just last season that Derek Lee signed a 5 year, $60 mill ($12 mill per) extension with them? He's not the guy to demand a trade or demand a new deal, but he should be asking for the latter. He deserves more and I hate to say it, but this is what you get for being a nice guy and giving your ballclub a discount; they use the money you gave up to overpay someone worse than you.

Next Cubs signing: Barry Zito, 5 years, $75 mill. No teal needed. This franchise is beyond embrassed and will do anything possible to win a World Series before they celebrate 100 years of failure. Hendry better hurry.

Lip Man 1
11-19-2006, 07:46 PM
Supposedly they promised Piniella they were going to raise payroll by as much as fifteen million. It remains to be seen how all these moves translate into wins since they still need pitching, but they certainly have made a splash this off season.

I trust Kenny is watching and waiting for the right time since the middle part of the bullpen still needs serious upgrading, to say nothing off the leadoff spot.

Lip

areilly
11-19-2006, 07:48 PM
I'm curious why so many people are quick with the "Soriano can't pitch" one-liners. OF COURSE he can't pitch. It's not like the Cubs - or any team - is done building their '07 squad. Calm down people.

But it's only November 19th; I'd be shocked if Zito and/or Schmidt and/or any other FA out there didn't see this and think two things:
1) The Cubs are willing to bring talent to the team to win
2) The Cubs are willing to spend a lot of money to do that

I heard this today and honestly got a little jealous. I really wanted to see Soriano playing for the Sox next year. So it goes. The Cubs, despite my strongest wishes, are at least getting better players. Will it be enough? Only time will tell. Not like they could field any worse of a team though.

Steelrod
11-19-2006, 07:50 PM
Bruuuuce Levine has Soriano hitting 60 at Wrigley1

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 07:54 PM
Bruuuuce Levine has Soriano hitting 60 at Wrigley1

:rolling:

goon
11-19-2006, 07:58 PM
I'm curious why so many people are quick with the "Soriano can't pitch" one-liners. OF COURSE he can't pitch. It's not like the Cubs - or any team - is done building their '07 squad. Calm down people.

But it's only November 19th; I'd be shocked if Zito and/or Schmidt and/or any other FA out there didn't see this and think two things:
1) The Cubs are willing to bring talent to the team to win
2) The Cubs are willing to spend a lot of money to do that

I heard this today and honestly got a little jealous. I really wanted to see Soriano playing for the Sox next year. So it goes. The Cubs, despite my strongest wishes, are at least getting better players. Will it be enough? Only time will tell. Not like they could field any worse of a team though.

a little unrealistic, don't you think?

it's not a matter of soriano not being a good player, it's that the cubs have so many holes and they already have 15 million going to ramirez, 4 million to derosa and now somewhere between 15-17 for soriano? how much more is the organization willing to put down for other gaping holes in their starting rotation and bullpen?

Brian26
11-19-2006, 08:02 PM
http://www1.whdh.com/images/news_articles/389x205/061017_dennis_green.jpg
"Should we crown them too?"

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 08:12 PM
Folks point out that the Cubs are getting better players. Well, a few years ago the Texas Rangers threw around a bunch of money at the top offensive player (and then a pitcher that bombed) and it got them nowhere. I'm not comparing the Cubs to the Rangers, but the point is that throwing money at the top free agents often doesn't translate into wins.

Free agency is a tool that smart organizations use to fill holes in a team built through smart scouting and player development and shrewd trades.

Teams that rely on free agency to re-build their roster, especially when they don't address their real weaknesses, usually don't get the results they expect.

At least when the Rangers signed A-Rod, they were getting the most complete offensive player of this generation. The Cubs just got a second DH who has good speed.

lakeviewsoxfan
11-19-2006, 08:21 PM
http://www1.whdh.com/images/news_articles/389x205/061017_dennis_green.jpg
"Should we crown them too?"

POTW

DumpJerry
11-19-2006, 08:30 PM
I have not read through the whole thread, but here are my thoughts (apologies is they are repeated above):

1. Can he fill a spot in the rotation?
2. The Cub fans I spoke with are either angry or happy.
3. Someone needs to tell Hendry to put the liquor bottle and step away slowly so that someone who knows how to fill a team's needs/holes can sign players.


Soriano will suck up cash for a quality starter. Expect lots of runs scored by the Cubs this summer (to ensure ticket sales) and even more given up by that vaunted pitching crew. The Cubs are trying to look like the Yankess, a solid 1-9 with no pitching and a high payroll. While I don't think the Cubs are close to a solid 1-9, they will have a high payroll with the same results as the Yankees' high payroll-lots of World Series viewing parties attended by the players.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-19-2006, 08:33 PM
I have not read through the whole thread, but here are my thoughts (apologies is they are repeated above):

1. Can he fill a spot in the rotation?
2. The Cub fans I spoke with are either angry or happy.
3. Someone needs to tell Hendry to put the liquor bottle and step away slowly so that someone who knows how to fill a team's needs/holes can sign players.


Soriano will suck up cash for a quality starter. Expect lots of runs scored by the Cubs this summer (to ensure ticket sales) and even more given up by that vaunted pitching crew. The Cubs are trying to look like the Yankess, a solid 1-9 with no pitching and a high payroll. While I don't think the Cubs are close to a solid 1-9, they will have a high payroll with the same results as the Yankees' high payroll-lots of World Series viewing parties attended by the players.

Agreed

DumpJerry
11-19-2006, 08:34 PM
Folks point out that the Cubs are getting better players. Well, a few years ago the Texas Rangers threw around a bunch of money at the top offensive player (and then a pitcher that bombed) and it got them nowhere. I'm not comparing the Cubs to the Rangers, but the point is that throwing money at the top free agents often doesn't translate into wins.

Free agency is a tool that smart organizations use to fill holes in a team built through smart scouting and player development and shrewd trades.

Teams that rely on free agency to re-build their roster, especially when they don't address their real weaknesses, usually don't get the results they expect.

At least when the Rangers signed A-Rod, they were getting the most complete offensive player of this generation. The Cubs just got a second DH who has good speed.
Excellent point, Frater. Free agents are paid for past performance, not future performance (except for a Frank Thomas who signed an incentive laden contract with the A's last year). Most guys have hit their peak when they become top flight FA's. Sometimes they have 2 years or so left in they are still in 28-29 years old.

A quality GM will seek out players who fit the mold of the type of player the team wants for its overall game plan. You know, something like how Kenny built the 2005 White Sox.

Big name FA signings, IMHO, serve mainly to boost or sustain season ticket sales.

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 08:49 PM
The Cubs are trying to look like the Yankess, a solid 1-9 with no pitching and a high payroll. While I don't think the Cubs are close to a solid 1-9, they will have a high payroll with the same results as the Yankees' high payroll-lots of World Series viewing parties attended by the players.

Agreed. The difference is that the Yankees have a legit leadoff hitter and another OBP threat at the top of their lineup (Damon and Abreau) before their sluggers. The Cubs, OTOH, have neither.

cws05champ
11-19-2006, 08:50 PM
I lot of Cubs fans I know mostly have the same attitude...they know it is an albatross of a contract and a bad long term signing. But if it bring a WS title in the next 2-3 years, they couldn't care less(which is pretty much how Cubs fans feel at the urinal anyways).

All they have to do is sign a #2, #3 SP and they are set for the World Series!

Frater Perdurabo
11-19-2006, 08:54 PM
Big name FA signings, IMHO, serve mainly to boost or sustain season ticket sales.

I agree with your whole post above, but this quote especially merits repeating. If it wasn't obvious before, it's completely laid bare for everyone to see now. The Cubs organization is ONLY interested in selling tickets and turning profits. And as long as the fans keep rewarding that business model, they will continue to get what they ask for and what they deserve.

The Cubs, the Tribune Company and Cubs fans all deserve each other.

lakeviewsoxfan
11-19-2006, 09:01 PM
8 years is a long ****ing time

WizardsofOzzie
11-19-2006, 09:05 PM
8 years is a long ****ing time
especially when you are 31 years old and will be 39 at contracts end :o:

HawkDJ
11-19-2006, 09:21 PM
I lot of Cubs fans I know mostly have the same attitude...they know it is an albatross of a contract and a bad long term signing. But if it bring a WS title in the next 2-3 years, they couldn't care less(which is pretty much how Cubs fans feel at the urinal anyways).



I don't think it'll bring a WS title but what is the problem with this thinking? They overpaid big time for an overrated player, but they definitely improved their team.

DumpJerry
11-19-2006, 09:26 PM
8 years is a long ****ing time
I heard on the radio that only 6 years are guaranteed.

I bet that changes your thinking!

DumpJerry
11-19-2006, 09:28 PM
I guess the biggest question for Sorian and the Cubs is:

Will he play in the outfield?

Brian26
11-19-2006, 09:29 PM
The Cubs organization is ONLY interested in selling tickets and turning profits. And as long as the fans keep rewarding that business model, they will continue to get what they ask for and what they deserve.

The Cubs, the Tribune Company and Cubs fans all deserve each other.

I don't think it'll bring a WS title but what is the problem with this thinking? They overpaid big time for an overrated player, but they definitely improved their team.

The signing of Soriano is not necessarily a bad move, but they apparently overpaid and offered an unheard of contract legnth (if it was indeed eight years and not six), which makes it an act of desperation. Hendry is trying to save his job, and doing so by sacrificing the future. Long after Hendry is gone, this albatross contract will still be on the books. Is this going to prevent them from resigning Zambrano next year? If it does, that in itself makes it an awful move.

Brian26
11-19-2006, 09:32 PM
I heard on the radio that only 6 years are guaranteed.

Isn't PK's contract six years in length too? That seems like the absolute maximum you would want to go.

lakeviewsoxfan
11-19-2006, 09:33 PM
Isn't PK's contract six years in length too? That seems like the absolute maximum you would want to go.

5 yrs/60MM

palehozenychicty
11-19-2006, 09:46 PM
Just when you think that the Cubs can't get any more incompetent......:cool:

PKalltheway
11-19-2006, 09:47 PM
The only team I can think of in the last 20 years that successfully bought a World Series title was the '97 Marlins. You could possibly make a case for those late 90's Yankees teams, but I always considered them to have a group of overachieving players and guys who came up through the Yankees sytem.
Don't forget about the 2001 Diamondbacks.

I don't think this is a great move by the Cubs, but who knows? Maybe they'll get a decent pitcher. We'll just have to wait and see. I don't think the NL "comedy" Central will be quite as bad next year, but that doesn't mean the Cubs will be any better unless they do something about their pitching, which they have yet to address (with the exception of the addition of Neal Cotts).

TaylorStSox
11-19-2006, 10:20 PM
If I were a Cubs fan, I'd be happy. I don't pay the bills. There's no cap. If they can afford to pay that much, more power to em.

thomas35forever
11-19-2006, 10:34 PM
Soriano jerseys should sell out within 20 minutes.

thomas35forever
11-19-2006, 10:34 PM
I guess the biggest question for Sorian and the Cubs is:

Will he play in the outfield?
That's what I was thinking.

spiffie
11-19-2006, 10:45 PM
The NL Central is such an awful division that the Cubs might be competitive in it next yeat with a healthy Lee and Soriano. In a real division like the AL Central they would be 4th place. But really, who in that division looks good? Even the Cardinals look like a crappy team that had a hot streak in October instead of a great champion.

I heard this today and honestly got a little jealous.
Hey, don't you worry now. We might not sign anyone this off season, but we'll show everyone that our team is fiscally smart, and that's what counts.

It really is typical Cubs management though to spend $200+ million on offense and then target Gil Meche for pitching help. One step forward, two steps back.

DumpJerry
11-19-2006, 10:50 PM
The best is yet to come. They are drooling over a lineup which will include D. Lee, Soriano and A. Ramirez. I'll bet Ramirez will be toast by the 7-31 deadline because he is lazy and Lou will shoot him if he is not traded. Baker would put up with crap from any player so long as he did not kill anyone in the clubhouse (cleaning up blood from the carpeting before a game is a pain). Pinella won't put up with much crap.

Aramis Ramirez=D'Angelo Jimenez. Talent, but lazy.

Viva Medias B's
11-19-2006, 11:00 PM
I trust Kenny is watching and waiting for the right time since the middle part of the bullpen still needs serious upgrading, to say nothing off the leadoff spot.

:KW
"Flying under the radar, Lip."

MrT27
11-19-2006, 11:04 PM
I love hearing Cub fans trying to justify this signing. And I try to explain logically how this is a bad deal for the Cubs they are telling me how 05' was a fluke and how bad the Sox ERA was last season :rolleyes:

It's Time
11-19-2006, 11:31 PM
Did the Cubs give him too much money? Sure. That said, if KW had landed Soriano to replace Pods in LF and leadoff, this board would be doing cartwheels.

Giving players too much money is what it is and it's called the business of Baseball. The guy is a great player, overpaid or not. The Cubs are still two starting pitchers away from being serious contenders. As it stands, the lineup looks like this:

Soriano
Derosa
Lee
Ramirez
Jones
Barrett
Murton
Isturis

The rotation is a mess and I would not want Murton ( Will they sign CLee??) as my starting LF. If they add two quality starters, then I will say they are bonified contenders.

palehozenychicty
11-19-2006, 11:42 PM
Did the Cubs give him too much money? Sure. That said, if KW had landed Soriano to replace Pods in LF and leadoff, this board would be doing cartwheels.



Sox fans are smarter than that. Soriano would be a flashy addition, but he wouldn't solve the team's problems since he K's about 150+ times per year, doesn't walk, is a poor defender wherever he plays, and piles up stats at inconsequential moments. Even if the Cubs get two decent pitchers, they still are inferior in skilled players, bullpen, and closer to the Mets. Much ado about nothing.

Pierzynski 12
11-19-2006, 11:44 PM
Start printing those WS tickets!!

WhiteSoxFan84
11-19-2006, 11:51 PM
Projected 2007 Chicago Cubs Starting Lineup (so far):
1) Alfonso Soriano - LF
2) Cesar Izturis - SS
3) Derek Lee - 1B
4) Aramis Ramirez - 3B
5) Jacque Jones - RF
6) Michael Barrett - C
7) Mark Derosa - 2B
8) Felix Pie/Angel Pagan (?) - CF
9) Pitcher

Projected Rotation (so far)
1) Carlos Zambrano
2) Mark Prior
3) Rich Hill
4) Sean Marshall
5) Neal Cotts/Angel Guzman/Juan Mateo/Carlos Marmol (?)

The bullpen doesn't look too bad as they have at least Kerry Wood, Scott Eyre, Bob Howry, Ryan Dempster, and a few more misfits. That starting rotation looks pathetic though.

A few more things that look pathetic and these are all Soriano stats;

- .325 career OBP
- Averaged 136 K's a season last 6 seasons including 160 last year
- Has had over 40 walks only once in his career (last year - 67)

Before last season Soriano was not worth more than $10-$12 million in an inflated market. But because of one solid 40-40-40 season, his value skyrocketed and desperate teams like the Cubs were willing to go above and beyond overpaying him.

The Critic
11-20-2006, 12:02 AM
Projected 2007 Chicago Cubs Starting Lineup (so far):
1) Alfonso Soriano - LF
2) Cesar Izturis - SS
3) Derek Lee - 1B
4) Aramis Ramirez - 3B
5) Jacque Jones - RF
6) Michael Barrett - C
7) Mark Derosa - 2B
8) Felix Pie/Angel Pagan (?) - CF
9) Pitcher

Projected Rotation (so far)
1) Carlos Zambrano
2) Mark Prior
3) Rich Hill
4) Sean Marshall
5) Neal Cotts/Angel Guzman/Juan Mateo/Carlos Marmol (?)

The bullpen doesn't look too bad as they have at least Kerry Wood, Scott Eyre, Bob Howry, Ryan Dempster, and a few more misfits. That starting rotation looks pathetic though.

A few more things that look pathetic and these are all Soriano stats;

- .325 career OBP
- Averaged 136 K's a season last 6 seasons including 160 last year
- Has had over 40 walks only once in his career (last year - 67)

Before last season Soriano was not worth more than $10-$12 million in an inflated market. But because of one solid 40-40-40 season, his value skyrocketed and desperate teams like the Cubs were willing to go above and beyond overpaying him.
I think the lineup (barring any trades) will look like this:

Soriano CF
Izturis SS
Lee 1B
Ramirez 3B
Jones RF
Barrett C
Murton LF
DeRosa 2B
Pitcher

I think that's a formidable lineup, although they still will K a bit more than you'd like. Not a lot of patient hitters in that lineup, but they should wreck the mediocre pitching in their division. Gonna be a lot of softball scores at Wrigley in 2007, I think.
The bullpen looks solid, the hole is obviously the rotation, and unless the Trib gives Hendry unexpected money, he's going to either have to trade the farm away to get decent arms, or sign middle-level pitching at higher prices than they deserve.
Prior is the key to their season, which isn't good news for Cub fans, given Prior's VERY strange injury history.

StillMissOzzie
11-20-2006, 03:45 AM
One more thought - the Cubs must think that the DH market will climb a lot closer to $17M/year in the next 5-6 years or so, or they are gonna be eating a lot of that contract when Soriano is old and decrepit.

With Toronto overpaying $9M/year to grab Big Frank for the next two years, they may be within $4-5M/year by then.

SMO
:gulp:

Grzegorz
11-20-2006, 04:47 AM
Slow and steady wins the race... For those of you upset that KW hasn't made a major move relax; making deals just to make a deal is an act of desperation. The Cubs are desperate; and the contract they offered Soriano is ridiculous.

No all Cubs fans are ecstatic; some of my Cub buddies saw Soriano out in DC and mentioned that he's a selfish player. He stood there while Ryan Zimmerman ran a mile for a foul ball.

Maybe he works out, then again maybe not. I care not a whit about the Cubs, I am a Chicago White Sox fan.

In Kenny Williams I trust!

Oblong
11-20-2006, 08:05 AM
When did Isiah become GM of the Cubs?

kraut83
11-20-2006, 08:07 AM
Being in the NL, the cubs should be able to slug their way into the playoffs with that lineup. Looks a lot like Piniella's "built for the regular season" teams when he was in Seattle.

Hitmen77
11-20-2006, 08:22 AM
Did the Cubs give him too much money? Sure. That said, if KW had landed Soriano to replace Pods in LF and leadoff, this board would be doing cartwheels.

Giving players too much money is what it is and it's called the business of Baseball. The guy is a great player, overpaid or not. The Cubs are still two starting pitchers away from being serious contenders. As it stands, the lineup looks like this:

Soriano
Derosa
Lee
Ramirez
Jones
Barrett
Murton
Isturis

The rotation is a mess and I would not want Murton ( Will they sign CLee??) as my starting LF. If they add two quality starters, then I will say they are bonified contenders.

I disagree. Soriano would be a great addition to our lineup, yes, but most of us here would be smart enough to know that signing him to $17 million/8 years would eat up a huge chunk of our payroll and make it difficult for us to spend money to fill other holes.

Do you seriously think the Cubs will now sign CLee and 2 quality starters? At the rate their spending, that would mean $15 million per year for each player and boosting their payroll by another $45 million.

soxinem1
11-20-2006, 08:47 AM
reports are that this "cubs deal" could be for as much as 135 million over 8 years. wow. that probably isn't worth the money next season. paying 17-20 mil in 8 seasons?! when he's 39?! hahahaha!



Thanks, cubs, for driving up the market with ridiculous contracts. What's with the eight-year deal? Wasn't five enough?

Wow, this is a ton of money for a DH.

I'd love to see Fonz in CF. I think Mackowiak is Willie Mays compared to him.

Funny, Sweet Lou called him the best lead-off hitter in the game. I guess K's and no walks mean a lot to the #1 spot for these guys.

Didn't anyone tell them that Brian Daubach or Ryan Klesko are available?

GoSox2K3
11-20-2006, 08:47 AM
The NL Central is such an awful division that the Cubs might be competitive in it next yeat with a healthy Lee and Soriano. In a real division like the AL Central they would be 4th place. But really, who in that division looks good? Even the Cardinals look like a crappy team that had a hot streak in October instead of a great champion.


Alot is being made of the Cardinals 83 win title. The thing is, the Cubs have to beat the '07 Cardinals, not the '06 Cardinals.

Is it a forgone conclusion that the Cardinals are just going to stand pat and won't upgrade too? I would think the World Series champs who have a new stadium and are pretty much guaranteed to sell 46,000 tickets every night might have the resources to improve and won't just sit idly by as the Cubs take aim at 85 wins.

It's Time
11-20-2006, 08:55 AM
This is getting crazy. Now the Sun-times is reporting the Cubs want to add Cliff Floyd, a longtime Hendry favorite to the team. Their payroll is going to approach 130M as they still have to add two starters to the rotation.

For that type of money, they had better win at least 95 games.

palehozenychicty
11-20-2006, 09:39 AM
This is getting crazy. Now the Sun-times is reporting the Cubs want to add Cliff Floyd, a longtime Hendry favorite to the team. Their payroll is going to approach 130M as they still have to add two starters to the rotation.

For that type of money, they had better win at least 95 games.

Cliff Floydl? Cliff FloyDL? Yawn.....

FedEx227
11-20-2006, 10:04 AM
Soriano CF
Izturis SS
Lee 1B
Ramirez 3B
Jones RF
Barrett C
Murton LF
DeRosa 2B
Pitcher

::shiver:: Easily the worst defensive outfield I have ever seen. Not to mention the fact that Soriano is everything you want your lead-off man NOT to be. It'll put asses in the seats so more power to the Cubs, but they should expect to win about 70 games.

nlentz88
11-20-2006, 10:05 AM
Projected Rotation (so far)
1) Carlos Zambrano
2) Mark Prior
3) Rich Hill
4) Sean Marshall
5) Neal Cotts/Angel Guzman/Juan Mateo/Carlos Marmol (?)

The bullpen doesn't look too bad as they have at least Kerry Wood, Scott Eyre, Bob Howry, Ryan Dempster, and a few more misfits. That starting rotation looks pathetic though.



Don't forget Wade Miller.

palehozenychicty
11-20-2006, 10:21 AM
::shiver:: Easily the worst defensive outfield I have ever seen. Not to mention the fact that Soriano is everything you want your lead-off man NOT to be. It'll put asses in the seats so more power to the Cubs, but they should expect to win about 70 games.

Exactly. A lot of their players have the jury out on them, including Derrek Lee, who has had only one brilliant year out of a lot of decent seasons and is coming off a broken wrist. I think the Pirates, if they can land a guy like Chad Tracy, are a team to not sleep on in that division.

johnr1note
11-20-2006, 10:31 AM
I haven't read through the entire thread, so forgive me if this point has been made, but the Cubs have basically signed "Sammy -- the Next Generation." An outfielder with power, speed (Sammy had it in his youth), a tendency to strike out a lot, and zero defensive skills. Plus, "Fonzie" has the same inherent selfishness that made Sammy the ultimate "me first" ballplayer. All for the low, low price of $136 million.

spawn
11-20-2006, 10:52 AM
Wanna hear something funny? Guess who likes the deal? You guessed it. Our favorite moron at the Sun-Times. :rolling:

WhiteSoxFan84
11-20-2006, 11:38 AM
Wanna hear something funny? Guess who likes the deal? You guessed it. Our favorite moron at the Sun-Times. :rolling:


if the sox signed him to the same contract he wouldve ripped and shredded KW and claim that he along with JR are full of themselves. this is a pathetic signing. they would've been better off splitting the $136 mill between Barry Zito and Jason Schmidt. I'm not saying theyre worth it, I'm just saying it would've been a better buy.

tstrike2000
11-20-2006, 11:45 AM
if the sox signed him to the same contract he wouldve ripped and shredded KW and claim that he along with JR are full of themselves. this is a pathetic signing. they would've been better off splitting the $136 mill between Barry Zito and Jason Schmidt. I'm not saying theyre worth it, I'm just saying it would've been a better buy.

After giving all that money to Soriano, the Cubs will be set. All they have to do is find a leadoff hitter, get someone to catch the ball for Ramirez and Soriano, sign Johan Santana, Brandon Webb, and Roy Oswalt to be their 2, 3, 4 starters and get Mariano Rivera to be their closer.

Red Barchetta
11-20-2006, 11:45 AM
Remember guys, this is the Tribune Company selling the Shrine and all things old-school baseball. They don't have to build a winner. Simply sign some high-priced free-agent slugger and they are guaranteed 3 million butts in the stands. That IS their strategy.

GoSox2K3
11-20-2006, 12:52 PM
So, if the Tribune is planning to sell the Cubs, are they now in "spend someone else's money" mode?

If they do plan the sell, I wonder if saddling the team with a bunch of huge, long term contracts would start to erode the potential selling price of the team? In other words, maybe the Trib is going for broke with the idea that someone else will pay these salaries later, but they're mindful that they don't want to cross the line of making the Cubs payroll look scary to potential buyers.

spiffie
11-20-2006, 01:54 PM
So, if the Tribune is planning to sell the Cubs, are they now in "spend someone else's money" mode?

If they do plan the sell, I wonder if saddling the team with a bunch of huge, long term contracts would start to erode the potential selling price of the team? In other words, maybe the Trib is going for broke with the idea that someone else will pay these salaries later, but they're mindful that they don't want to cross the line of making the Cubs payroll look scary to potential buyers.

I think the first of these is perhaps a relevant factor. Though I think part of it is that they are trying to shore the team up before the sale. People looking at the team as an investment are going to ask about last September, when actual crowds were falling into the four figures. This is their way of guaranteeing 81 sellout days and an upsurge of interest in the team. That will return to them in revenue far beyond what they are spending on this team. I saw on a Cubs blog a breakdown that showed, using generally accepted figures, that they could have a payroll around 175MM and still be quite profitable. So yeah, these numbers are insane, but they likely will not be much of a hinderance to a sale, not nearly as much as a 50% drop in first-day ticket sales would be.

Hendu
11-20-2006, 01:57 PM
Wanna hear something funny? Guess who likes the deal? You guessed it. Our favorite moron at the Sun-Times. :rolling:

As soon as Soriano gets hurt or has a couple of bad games, he's going to be the first in line ripping on the Cubs for overpaying him, giving too many years, focusing on hitting instead of pitching, etc.

Hitmen77
11-20-2006, 02:33 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061120cubssoriano,1,3941707.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

The Cubs leapfrogged the Angels, Phillies and Astros to reel Soriano in before a major bidding war erupted.

So, the Cubs shell out $17 million for 8 years and now they get credit for "avoiding a major bidding war"? :?:

Yeah, once a bidding war starts, some team would end up spending $130 million on Soriano!

samram
11-20-2006, 02:36 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061120cubssoriano,1,3941707.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed



So, the Cubs shell out $17 million for 8 years and now they get credit for "avoiding a major bidding war"? :?:

Yeah, once a bidding war starts, some team would end up spending $130 million on Soriano!

I'm sure teams were just beating down the door to pay him $17M when he is 39 years old.

TDog
11-20-2006, 02:43 PM
So, if the Tribune is planning to sell the Cubs, are they now in "spend someone else's money" mode?

If they do plan the sell, I wonder if saddling the team with a bunch of huge, long term contracts would start to erode the potential selling price of the team? In other words, maybe the Trib is going for broke with the idea that someone else will pay these salaries later, but they're mindful that they don't want to cross the line of making the Cubs payroll look scary to potential buyers.



Most teams on the verge of sale divest themselves of big contracts as they go on the market. I'm sure there are a couple of different business theories. The Cubs franchise may be attractive enough that buyers will take on the extra baggage of commitments in an odd direction rather than providing a perennially high-drawing team with roster flexibility to allow the new ownership to build a winner. It also could be that the Cubs want to continue to sell tickets and feared that wasn't going to happen to the degree it has in the past without some big signings to generate deteriorating fan interest. The continued high advance ticket sales for team that finished last would show to prospective buyers that Chicago is a Cubs city.

My guess is that the Cubs aren't really for sale, or at least won't be sold any time soon.

thedudeabides
11-20-2006, 03:31 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061120cubssoriano,1,3941707.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed



So, the Cubs shell out $17 million for 8 years and now they get credit for "avoiding a major bidding war"? :?:

Yeah, once a bidding war starts, some team would end up spending $130 million on Soriano!

This article claims they may have him play right and put Jaque Jones in CF?

This gets better by the minute.

Lip Man 1
11-20-2006, 05:50 PM
For what it's worth Buster Olney was on ESPN radio today and ripped this move to shreads.

His reasoning:

1. If you pay that kind of money you need to get one of the top 5 players in MLB. In his opinion Soriano is not in that category due to his number of strikeouts and his low on base percentage.

2. He said that when Ramirez, A-Rod and Jeter signed their long term deals they were in their 20's. Soriano will be 31 in January. He just can't see paying him 17 million a season when he's 35, 36 and so on.

He called this move "insane" and also said Scott Boras and Barry Zito are jumping for joy over it.

Lip

Soxfanspcu11
11-20-2006, 05:55 PM
I'm surprised that no one has brought up the fact that Soriano still has to prove himself in a market where the pressure that will be on him is TREMENDOUS!

About a year ago, I had my flubs fan friends telling me how the flubs would be awesome in 2006 because of the addition of Pierre and Jones, well we all know how that turned out.

Certainly there may have been numerous reasons as to why Pierre and Jones failed, but one of the more popular thoughts is that they were under WAY too much pressure from the Chicago media to perform, especially coming off of the White Sox World Series win.

Texas and DC are certainly not baseball havens. There is certainly no where near the pressure to perform there as there is here.

As I briefly alluded to in my previous post, if the flubs are not performing up to expectations early on, the wave of bashing is going to be overwhelming.

We all know that Soriano is a very strange player, and an even stranger human being. He is incredibly selfish and simply will not do certain things that he doesn't feel comfortable with.

I am VERY interested to see what his reaction will be when the Urinal "faithful" start pelting him with garbage after he has a few swinging K's and misplays a ball in the outfield.

Again, as I said in my previous post, I would be none to surprised to see him demanding a trade and/or refusing to play by June-July just to get out of the hell hole he has just signed on to.

spiffie
11-20-2006, 07:26 PM
Texas and DC are certainly not baseball havens. There is certainly no where near the pressure to perform there as there is here.

We all know that Soriano is a very strange player, and an even stranger human being. He is incredibly selfish and simply will not do certain things that he doesn't feel comfortable with.

Two things, because I agreed with much of this:

1. He did start out in NYC, the hardest place on earth to play, so I don't know how much pressure this will be though admittedly expectations are different this time.

2. What, other than his one day walkout, has he been accused of in terms of selfishness or lack of team play?

Palehose13
11-20-2006, 07:33 PM
I haven't read through the entire thread, so forgive me if this point has been made, but the Cubs have basically signed "Sammy -- the Next Generation." An outfielder with power, speed (Sammy had it in his youth), a tendency to strike out a lot, and zero defensive skills. Plus, "Fonzie" has the same inherent selfishness that made Sammy the ultimate "me first" ballplayer. All for the low, low price of $136 million.

I thought almost the same thing. 8 years to a 31 year old player at for that much bank? They are going to be paying someone to take Soriano off their hands in about 4 years.

The cubs needed pitching. Instead, the Tribune machine signed someone who will put butts in the seats. Soriano has just become the new Sammy.

FedEx227
11-20-2006, 07:40 PM
For what it's worth Buster Olney was on ESPN radio today and ripped this move to shreads.

His reasoning:

1. If you pay that kind of money you need to get one of the top 5 players in MLB. In his opinion Soriano is not in that category due to his number of strikeouts and his low on base percentage.

2. He said that when Ramirez, A-Rod and Jeter signed their long term deals they were in their 20's. Soriano will be 31 in January. He just can't see paying him 17 million a season when he's 35, 36 and so on.

He called this move "insane" and also said Scott Boras and Barry Zito are jumping for joy over it.

Lip

Don't usually agree with Buster (god he's hard to take credible...Buster) but he's right on with this assessment. Soriano is not a top 5 player and thus should not be worth top 5 money, plain and simple. Soriano is a great hitter, there is absolutely no doubting that, but he is not great for the roles hes suppose to play.

If he was in the AL and was a DH batting 4th in the lineup then he would be a great addition to any team. However, the fact that hes expected to play CF with absolutely no experience in the OF (outside of a season) let alone no experience in CF is just ludicrous. Add in the fact that high strikeouts and low OBP doesn't exactly scream great lead off hitter.

And as we've said from the second this move happened, it doesn't make logical sense. The Cubs are now stuck with Soriano for 8 years, he is completely unmovable at this point. He has now hit Manny Ramirez/Allan Houston-esque stature in that no matter how many times you attempt to move him, shop him, almost deal him, etc... the money will never, ever work out.

champagne030
11-20-2006, 07:43 PM
I thought almost the same thing. 8 years to a 31 year old player at for that much bank? They are going to be paying someone to take Soriano off their hands in about 4 years.

The cubs needed pitching. Instead, the Tribune machine signed someone who will put butts in the seats. Soriano has just become the new Sammy.

And paying a lot because they're going to need Soriano to wave his no trade clause....That means Soriano will probably want an extra year(s)/bonus from the new team and that will come straight out of the Flubs' pocket.

champagne030
11-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Don't usually agree with Buster (god he's hard to take credible...Buster) but he's right on with this assessment. Soriano is not a top 5 player and thus should not be worth top 5 money, plain and simple. Soriano is a great hitter, there is absolutely no doubting that, but he is not great for the roles hes suppose to play.

And the fact that Buster doesn't come up with any inside information. He scans the web for newspaper articles and then acts like he has a scoop. Any ****ing schmuck can come up with a blog like that. Now back to the the Flubs overpaying Soriano......

Hitmen77
11-21-2006, 10:29 AM
Maybe it's been mentioned already, but how must McPhail feel right now. As soon as he quits, the Tribune lets the Cubs go an a spending spree. I guess the same could be said for Dusty.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2006, 10:40 AM
Don't usually agree with Buster (god he's hard to take credible...Buster) but he's right on with this assessment. Soriano is not a top 5 player and thus should not be worth top 5 money, plain and simple. Soriano is a great hitter, there is absolutely no doubting that, but he is not great for the roles hes suppose to play.

If he was in the AL and was a DH batting 4th in the lineup then he would be a great addition to any team. However, the fact that hes expected to play CF with absolutely no experience in the OF (outside of a season) let alone no experience in CF is just ludicrous. Add in the fact that high strikeouts and low OBP doesn't exactly scream great lead off hitter.

And as we've said from the second this move happened, it doesn't make logical sense. The Cubs are now stuck with Soriano for 8 years, he is completely unmovable at this point. He has now hit Manny Ramirez/Allan Houston-esque stature in that no matter how many times you attempt to move him, shop him, almost deal him, etc... the money will never, ever work out.With Soriano leading off for a NL team he could well break the single-season record for solo HR. (I wonder what that record is?)

soxinem1
11-21-2006, 09:58 PM
I'm sure teams were just beating down the door to pay him $17M when he is 39 years old.


Honestly, the way it looks now, by then that may be the league's minimum salary.......

soxwon
11-23-2006, 11:26 PM
no way- wont happen
soriano will be a phillie!!!

CaptainBallz
11-24-2006, 12:31 AM
no way- wont happen
soriano will be a phillie!!!

:?:

Possibly in 2015...

Jjav829
11-24-2006, 10:47 AM
no way- wont happen
soriano will be a phillie!!!

I agree. I'm also worried that Konerko isn't going to re-sign with us. I hear the Angels are making a strong run at him. :nuts:

Steelrod
11-24-2006, 11:18 AM
I agree. I'm also worried that Konerko isn't going to re-sign with us. I hear the Angels are making a strong run at him. :nuts:
Maybe in 2011 !

spiffie
11-25-2006, 09:03 AM
no way- wont happen
soriano will be a phillie!!!
And Aaron Rowand definitely will not be at ring day!

CLR01
11-26-2006, 11:15 PM
And Aaron Rowand definitely will not be at ring day!


He's too busy getting drunk and trying to pick up women with Kyle Orton.