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View Full Version : Kenny Williams Hates Free Agency...


WhiteSoxFan84
11-17-2006, 03:07 AM
This is not a knock on Kenny Williams, but the more I hear him speak during the offseason the more I'm inclined to think he will never land us a big-time free agent. Not saying we need one to get anywhere, but he does make it pretty clear that we will never land one.


Kenny Williams stood in the hotel lobby as general managers started to leave, talked about his starting pitchers and said the $51.1 million fee the Boston Red Sox bid merely for negotiating rights to Daisuke Matsuzaka had given him an idea.

"Instead of trading one of them, I'd rather post him," the Chicago White Sox GM said. "If you can get that much for a guy that hadn't pitched here, what are you going to get for some of the guys in our rotation?"

...

"I think that's the byproduct of an over-inflated free-agent market," Williams said. "I think it prompts you to get serious in trade talks and explore trade opportunities quicker."



Linky (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16031386.htm)

Erik The Red
11-17-2006, 05:11 AM
So I guess Jermaine Dye's chopped liver, huh?

johnr1note
11-17-2006, 08:25 AM
Not to mention AJ and Iguchi.

DumpJerry
11-17-2006, 08:32 AM
Don't foget Hermy.

Haven't you learned by now that you cannot predict even the sunrise by the words of Kenny? The only thing that is certain about him is his under the radar philosophy.

SoXPriDe33
11-17-2006, 08:37 AM
What about Konerko last year? Even though he was on the team the year before, he got a lot of money and came back.

Jaffar
11-17-2006, 08:46 AM
I think it's KW just postioning himself publicly. He just told every GM in baseball that if they want one of our starters it won't be cheap. Nothing is going to happen though until Zito and Schmidt are signed at least.

GoSox2K3
11-17-2006, 09:25 AM
So what exactly in that quote makes you think KW will never land a free agent? :?:

I don't see anything wrong with what he said.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-17-2006, 09:28 AM
I'm talking about superstar free agents and you guys throw AJ, Gooch, and...... Dustin Hermanson at me?? Hell, even JD wasn't a superstar when we signed him. And PK was a completely different story as he was one of the emotional leaders of the World Series winning squad. No way he leaves. Don't get me wrong as I love all 4 of those moves but I'm talking about the Carlos Beltrans, Vladimir Guerreros, and even the Alfonso Sorianos in baseball.

KW may make a move at Soriano but it won't be much of one. Again, this is NOT a knock on him as he got the job done already without any huge free agents. But it's just strange how a big market and successful team hasn't signed a big time free agent since.... Albert Belle???

CashMan
11-17-2006, 09:31 AM
I'm talking about superstar free agents and you guys throw AJ, Gooch, and...... Dustin Hermanson at me?? Hell, even JD wasn't a superstar when we signed him. And PK was a completely different story as he was one of the emotional leaders of the World Series winning squad. No way he leaves. Don't get me wrong as I love all 4 of those moves but I'm talking about the Carlos Beltrans, Vladimir Guerreros, and even the Alfonso Sorianos in baseball.

KW may make a move at Soriano but it won't be much of one. Again, this is NOT a knock on him as he got the job done already without any huge free agents. But it's just strange how a big market and successful team hasn't signed a big time free agent since.... Albert Belle???

So what has the Carlos Beltrans, Vlads, and Sorianos done other than make a lot of money for their teams? None have won a team a WS.

pdr
11-17-2006, 09:32 AM
But it's just strange how a big market and successful team hasn't signed a big time free agent since.... Albert Belle???

Seems you just answered your own question.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-17-2006, 09:52 AM
Seems you just answered your own question.

I don't think I did. If you're implying that Belle was a failure than I'll take his type of talent on my team anyday. All he did is set the franchise record for homers and drive in over 130 RBIs and hit over 40 doubles in back to back seasons did he not? I know he had 1 stellar year and was very good the next year.

Nonetheless, I don't want to be caught responding to everyones posts but I just think my concept is being misunderstood. I don't think big time free agents neccessarily mean a guranteed World Series or none of that. I just would like to see us pick up a guy off the market from time to time who changes our team completely (for the better obviously) and just gets the fanbase as a whole excited. The Belle signing was back in 1996 or 1997 if I'm not mistaken. So maybe 2 top free agents every 10 years instead of 1?

By the way, before its mentioned, I'm not forgetting about Bartolo Colon, David Wells, and Jim Thome. Colon we lost to.... yup, Wells sucked, and lovin' Thome. But those were all trades that were also one year rentals except for Thome who was more of a salary dump.

kobo
11-17-2006, 10:20 AM
I don't think I did. If you're implying that Belle was a failure than I'll take his type of talent on my team anyday. All he did is set the franchise record for homers and drive in over 130 RBIs and hit over 40 doubles in back to back seasons did he not? I know he had 1 stellar year and was very good the next year.

Nonetheless, I don't want to be caught responding to everyones posts but I just think my concept is being misunderstood. I don't think big time free agents neccessarily mean a guranteed World Series or none of that. I just would like to see us pick up a guy off the market from time to time who changes our team completely (for the better obviously) and just gets the fanbase as a whole excited. The Belle signing was back in 1996 or 1997 if I'm not mistaken. So maybe 2 top free agents every 10 years instead of 1?

By the way, before its mentioned, I'm not forgetting about Bartolo Colon, David Wells, and Jim Thome. Colon we lost to.... yup, Wells sucked, and lovin' Thome. But those were all trades that were also one year rentals except for Thome who was more of a salary dump.
So you want the Sox to go out and sign a free agent becuase you want the fanbase to get excited? The Sox won the World Series last year, you don't think that's enough to get fans excited? I don't want the Sox to go out and spend money on someone just to grab headlines. Spend the money wisely. We don't need a superstar on this team right now, we need help in certain areas, and if that means KW goes out and makes a bunch of little moves to strengthen the team rather than spending a **** ton of money on one free agent I am all for that. The goal is to win another World Series, not sign a big name free agent to get fans excited.

Jaffar
11-17-2006, 10:21 AM
I don't think I did. If you're implying that Belle was a failure than I'll take his type of talent on my team anyday. All he did is set the franchise record for homers and drive in over 130 RBIs and hit over 40 doubles in back to back seasons did he not? I know he had 1 stellar year and was very good the next year.

Nonetheless, I don't want to be caught responding to everyones posts but I just think my concept is being misunderstood. I don't think big time free agents neccessarily mean a guranteed World Series or none of that. I just would like to see us pick up a guy off the market from time to time who changes our team completely (for the better obviously) and just gets the fanbase as a whole excited. The Belle signing was back in 1996 or 1997 if I'm not mistaken. So maybe 2 top free agents every 10 years instead of 1?

By the way, before its mentioned, I'm not forgetting about Bartolo Colon, David Wells, and Jim Thome. Colon we lost to.... yup, Wells sucked, and lovin' Thome. But those were all trades that were also one year rentals except for Thome who was more of a salary dump.

I kind of see where you are going but you have to realize as well that Konerko, Thome, Crede, Dye, Garland, Garcia, and Buehrle would all be considered "big time free agents" if they were on the market. How many of these talents does one team need?

BeeBeeRichard
11-17-2006, 10:35 AM
KW's actual point in the original quoted material raises an issue I'm glad we don't have to worry about here. The idea of "posting" a player domestically would make the player movement system similar to European football, where a handful of clubs use the rest of organized football as their farm system and pick off the best young and established players for 8-figure fees whenever they want them. Then, such as in the English Premier League, only 4 or 5 teams can realisticially consider a title run -- and lately one club, Chelsea, is outspending even its greatest rivals and making the competition a one-horse race in recent seasons. I think the Sox would be hard-pressed to be among the 4-5 "elite" teams in a league under that kind of system.

mcfish
11-17-2006, 11:10 AM
So I guess Jermaine Dye's chopped liver, huh?At the time, yes, he was. He was damaged goods and most other teams would not offer him a contract.

Not to mention AJ and Iguchi.Same thing, even moreso, with AJ. He did beat a few teams for Iguchi, so we are getting closer to what the original post was about.

Don't foget Hermy.

Haven't you learned by now that you cannot predict even the sunrise by the words of Kenny? The only thing that is certain about him is his under the radar philosophy.That was a good signing of a guy other teams might have wanted.

What about Konerko last year? Even though he was on the team the year before, he got a lot of money and came back.Konerko was barely a free agent at best. There is a huge difference between negotiating with a guy you already know and have a good relationship with as opposed to the big time free agents that this thread is about.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-17-2006, 11:11 AM
So you want the Sox to go out and sign a free agent becuase you want the fanbase to get excited? The Sox won the World Series last year, you don't think that's enough to get fans excited? I don't want the Sox to go out and spend money on someone just to grab headlines. Spend the money wisely. We don't need a superstar on this team right now, we need help in certain areas, and if that means KW goes out and makes a bunch of little moves to strengthen the team rather than spending a **** ton of money on one free agent I am all for that. The goal is to win another World Series, not sign a big name free agent to get fans excited.


I completely agree with you. I don't feel like we NEED a "superstar" with the current roster we have. But if we have a weakness at shortstop or at any position and an all-star is available at that position, should we not approach him because we have enough superstars? No, that shouldn't hold us back, but KW will not seriously consider them merely because he has made it clear that he hates the market and what other teams do to it.

I think this all goes back to his first attempt at bringing in a superstar and how ugly that experience once. I'm talking about Alex Rodriguez.

thedudeabides
11-17-2006, 11:26 AM
I personally don't care how we aquire the players we need, whether it be in free agency or trades. I also think KW has done a great job at retaining players when needed. People praise GM's like Beane for value. Has there been better value than Jenks, Dye, Iguchi, AJ, Contreras, Thornton, and even Freddy. I realize the Sox do not make a lot of noise with big time free agents, but I like how they piece a team together.

jdm2662
11-17-2006, 12:09 PM
I completely agree with you. I don't feel like we NEED a "superstar" with the current roster we have. But if we have a weakness at shortstop or at any position and an all-star is available at that position, should we not approach him because we have enough superstars? No, that shouldn't hold us back, but KW will not seriously consider them merely because he has made it clear that he hates the market and what other teams do to it.

I think this all goes back to his first attempt at bringing in a superstar and how ugly that experience once. I'm talking about Alex Rodriguez.

Do you really think any GMs like to get into bidding wars? I would think any GM would like a FA to sign with their team, give them the amount the GM feels the FA is worth, and not worry about other teams bidding higher. Guess what. That's not how life works. I'd like to get a job offer for every interview I go on, but I have to compete with the other candidates. Do I like it? No. No one does. That doesn't mean I have to pretend to, or stop applying to jobs.

Alex Rodriguez is a poor example. Borass was using Kenny as leverage so he can get Hicks to out bid himself. You think Kenny cared for that too much? I don't. I really don't see why you even bothered bringing this thread up. I personally never get excited when the Sox sign someone new. It means nothing until the season starts. We should've learned from the Yankees signing the best players to get fans "excited" doesn't win championships. Complete teams do.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-17-2006, 12:16 PM
Do you really think any GMs like to get into bidding wars? I would think any GM would like a FA to sign with their team, give them the amount the GM feels the FA is worth, and not worry about other teams bidding higher. Guess what. That's not how life works. I'd like to get a job offer for every interview I go on, but I have to compete with the other candidates. Do I like it? No. No one does. That doesn't mean I have to pretend to, or stop applying to jobs.

No..... noo........noo!!......NOOO!!! This can't be how life works! It just can't!! :D:


There's a difference between not liking something and HATING something. Some people don't like their car. People HATE not having a car. See what I mean?

KW much like every other GM doesn't like having to outbid other teams for players. But KW, not like many other GMs, hates and almost always rules out going after FAs because he refuses to pay a player more than what he's worth. I totally agree with him, but it doesn't mean it's the right way to do business in the MLB market.

kobo
11-17-2006, 12:17 PM
I completely agree with you. I don't feel like we NEED a "superstar" with the current roster we have. But if we have a weakness at shortstop or at any position and an all-star is available at that position, should we not approach him because we have enough superstars? No, that shouldn't hold us back, but KW will not seriously consider them merely because he has made it clear that he hates the market and what other teams do to it.


I don't think that is true at all. KW knows how the FA market works, if he thinks he is going to be able to sign someone he'll go after him. You don't seem to have any faith in Kenny.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-17-2006, 12:26 PM
I don't think that is true at all. KW knows how the FA market works, if he thinks he is going to be able to sign someone he'll go after him. You don't seem to have any faith in Kenny.

Ell oh ell, oh God, here we go. Do I have to paint you an actual pointing to express my love of KW? I've said it 10 times on this thread alone, this is NOT A KNOCK ON KW. He does things his own way. And so far, it's paid off BIG TIME. I just feel as though he will never land us a big time free agent. Doesn't that mean he won't win us another World Series title or that I have no faith in him? Absolutely..........


http://www.vayatele.com/images/Borat.jpg
...NOT!

spawn
11-17-2006, 12:27 PM
I hope KW doesn't overpay for an overhyped superstar. Just ask the Yankees how far that gets you. They won their World Series with players mostly from the farm system. Since then, they've tried to buy a championship. So far, it hasn't worked. give me a mid-range player with something to prove over an athlete with an inflated opinion of himself anyday.

Britt Burns
11-17-2006, 12:32 PM
Um, free agents KW has signed recently (just off the top of my head):
Dye, Iguchi, El Duque, AJ, Hermanson...mybe not top-tier players, but still...

Paulwny
11-17-2006, 12:46 PM
I hope KW doesn't overpay for an overhyped superstar. Just ask the Yankees how far that gets you. They won their World Series with players mostly from the farm system. Since then, they've tried to buy a championship. So far, it hasn't worked. give me a mid-range player with something to prove over an athlete with an inflated opinion of himself anyday.

You're kidding, Jeter, Posada, Williams and Pettite would never win a WS without, O'Neil, Brosius, Clemens, Martinez, Knobloch, Cone, El Duque, etc, etc.
The yanks have always used their minor league players for mid- season trades.

SoxSpeed22
11-17-2006, 12:54 PM
Um, free agents KW has signed recently (just off the top of my head):
Dye, Iguchi, El Duque, AJ, Hermanson...mybe not top-tier players, but still...Signing a superstar is out of date if you don't spend a TON. Vlad Guererro and Carlos Beltran were the only ones worth it. KW knows what he's doing, he didn't pay $33 Million for Russ Ortiz, he didn't pay $49 Million for AJ Burnett, he didn't pay $55 Million for JD Drew, $17 Million for Kyle Farnsworth. I could keep going with this, the free agency is a dead art if you don't want a big-ass contract.

likeawarlord
11-17-2006, 01:04 PM
I don't think I did. If you're implying that Belle was a failure than I'll take his type of talent on my team anyday. All he did is set the franchise record for homers and drive in over 130 RBIs and hit over 40 doubles in back to back seasons did he not? I know he had 1 stellar year and was very good the next year.

Nonetheless, I don't want to be caught responding to everyones posts but I just think my concept is being misunderstood. I don't think big time free agents neccessarily mean a guranteed World Series or none of that. I just would like to see us pick up a guy off the market from time to time who changes our team completely (for the better obviously) and just gets the fanbase as a whole excited. The Belle signing was back in 1996 or 1997 if I'm not mistaken. So maybe 2 top free agents every 10 years instead of 1?

By the way, before its mentioned, I'm not forgetting about Bartolo Colon, David Wells, and Jim Thome. Colon we lost to.... yup, Wells sucked, and lovin' Thome. But those were all trades that were also one year rentals except for Thome who was more of a salary dump.

belle's good year was 1998, his second year with the club. 1997 was a dissapointment, particularly after signing him to the richest contract in baseball history. There are people who blame belle's behavior and personality for frank thomas' struggles in 1998 and beyond, and certainly the money could have been better spent in other ways.

spawn
11-17-2006, 01:04 PM
You're kidding, Jeter, Posada, Williams and Pettite would never win a WS without, O'Neil, Brosius, Clemens, Martinez, Knobloch, Cone, El Duque, etc, etc.
The yanks have always used their minor league players for mid- season trades.
Let's not forget Rivera was homegrown as well. And my point is they won with a mix of minor-league talent and wise free agent pickups. Now all they are doing is signing all-stars, trying to buy a championship.

Paulwny
11-17-2006, 01:10 PM
Let's not forget Rivera was homegrown as well. And my point is they won with a mix of minor-league talent and wise free agent pickups. Now all they are doing is signing all-stars, trying to buy a championship.


Rivera was never part of any mlb draft since he was from outside the US. He along with Soriano and El Duque went to the highest bidder. I agree that their fa signings haven't been very good lately, but they've always bought prime fa's since George has owned the team and have won quite a few ws with these signings.

Corlose 15
11-17-2006, 01:10 PM
The way that I read this quote is that KW would prefer to go the trade route because he believes thats the best way to get value for what he is giving up. I mean would you rather have him spend 75M or whatever on Carlos Lee (hypothetically of course) or make a trade for Jim Thome. I think he's saying its a better use of "money" (prospects, cash, etc.) to use the trade market than to overpay for the moderate talent that has been inflated in the free agent market lately.

I mean would any of us really want him to spend 51.1M just to negotiate with Matsuzaka?

I don't have a problem at all with what KW said. If he really needs to go the FA route I think he will but as of yet he hasn't and I agreee with his course of action.

Ol' No. 2
11-17-2006, 01:20 PM
I believe the original point was that KW was not inclined to build the team by going after the high-profile free agents. That doesn't mean NO free agents, but only that he's not going to get suckered into paying ridiculous contracts. And I agree with him. Kenny's strategy is to find value in the FA market and to lock up his own top players to longer term contracts at reasonable prices. Every one of the Sox starters is getting paid well below what he'd command on the FA market. That's no accident.

:fobbgod: Hey, wait!! I thought I was the only one who knew how to find value!!

mcfish
11-17-2006, 01:45 PM
I believe the original point was that KW was not inclined to build the team by going after the high-profile free agents. That doesn't mean NO free agents, but only that he's not going to get suckered into paying ridiculous contracts. And I agree with him. Kenny's strategy is to find value in the FA market and to lock up his own top players to longer term contracts at reasonable prices. Every one of the Sox starters is getting paid well below what he'd command on the FA market. That's no accident.

:fobbgod: Hey, wait!! I thought I was the only one who knew how to find value!!Yeah! Someone gets the point of the thread. :bandance: