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View Full Version : Spring Training Update - out of Tucson?


wulfy
11-14-2006, 11:29 AM
This has been discussed before, but it's looking more and more like it's going to happen. From the Worldwide Leader:

The Arizona Republic reported Tuesday that the Dodgers would play in a new publicly financed stadium in Glendale that could be shared with the Chicago White Sox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cha), who are thinking of moving their spring operations from Tucson.

The Glendale City Council will meet Wednesday to discuss and potentially act on the plan, according to the newspaper, which said the Dodgers and White Sox must execute formal agreements with the city and possibly a private developer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2661320

Personally, I'd rather have them in the Phoenix metro area vs. downstate Arizona.

MarySwiss
11-14-2006, 11:45 AM
Yeah, saw it this morning in the Republic. Understandably, Tucson is not crazy about the idea. Here's the link to the story.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/1114biz-stadium1114.html

Chicken Dinner
11-14-2006, 12:28 PM
Tucson is not a very good venue as you can see by the spring training schedule. There's something wrong when half of your games are played against the Rockies and D-Backs.

I want Mags back
11-14-2006, 12:40 PM
awesome, my cousin live in glendale. hpefully it will be near the hockey rink and U of Phoenix stadium, which have free parking

maurice
11-14-2006, 12:44 PM
Yeah, saw it this morning in the Republic. Understandably, Tucson is not crazy about the idea. Here's the link to the story.

Tucson's argument makes sense. It would be dumb for the state to pay a team to move from one AZ city to another. That money should be spent to draw teams from Florida.

Fenway
11-14-2006, 12:49 PM
little matter of the lease in Vero Beach...it runs till 2021

for the White Sox to get out of their lease they have to find another team to go to Tucson

the gooch
11-14-2006, 12:57 PM
This has been discussed before, but it's looking more and more like it's going to happen. From the Worldwide Leader:



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2661320

Personally, I'd rather have them in the Phoenix metro area vs. downstate Arizona.Please don't call them that.

siugrad25
11-14-2006, 01:02 PM
Here's the deal with the Dodgers and Vero Beach. The team does have a lease until 2021, but they can buy out of it like for $17 million or something like that. I think they said it was the cost of the stadium... blah, blah, blah. The Single A Vero Beach Dodgers left just around a month ago and moved them to California. We've been running a lot of stories about them leaving and quoting the old Dodgers who still live in Vero Beach. As of right now, Holman Stadium will be empty come next minor league season.

This year will more than likely be their last year here, unless they wait until a new stadium is built and then leave. Either way, it's a sad situation here in Dodgertown.

They're looking into other teams moving here like Pittsburgh or Tampa but neither is really a draw like the Dodgers were. My overwhelming criticism though is how all the teams are leaving Florida for Arizona. Will they return? How long before the well dries up in Arizona, if at all?

wulfy
11-14-2006, 02:25 PM
Please don't call them that.

I should have used teal to indicate sarcasm.

TDog
11-14-2006, 02:33 PM
The first Arizona city to get help from a state to attract a team for spring training was Sun City, who stole the Padres from Yuma, a move that was criticized by the state's first woman governor. Now the state is on its third woman governor, and she too is a critic of the concept. Frankly I'm amazed that Arizona has been able to draw as many teams from Florida as it has. I never thought the Dodgers would be talking about leaving Vero Beach.

There is nothing wrong with Tucson as a spring training venue baseball-wise. This century, the two teams that train at TEP have won the World Series. In fact, if your team has strong pitching, it's best not to play much, if at all, against teams in your own division. And I would hate to see the Sox move to the state of Maricopa (a couple of years ago it was going to be Tempe) because Tucson is the best city in the state.

AZChiSoxFan
11-14-2006, 02:47 PM
The first Arizona city to get help from a state to attract a team for spring training was Sun City, who stole the Padres from Yuma, a move that was criticized by the state's first woman governor. Now the state is on its third woman governor, and she too is a critic of the concept. Frankly I'm amazed that Arizona has been able to draw as many teams from Florida as it has. I never thought the Dodgers would be talking about leaving Vero Beach.

There is nothing wrong with Tucson as a spring training venue baseball-wise. This century, the two teams that train at TEP have won the World Series. In fact, if your team has strong pitching, it's best not to play much, if at all, against teams in your own division. And I would hate to see the Sox move to the state of Maricopa (a couple of years ago it was going to be Tempe) because Tucson is the best city in the state.

There, fixed it for ya. :thumbsup:


Just messing with you TDOG. Everytime this thread comes up (which is quite often) it seems to turn into a Phx vs. Tucson thread. I'm really anxious for that again.

ewokpelts
11-14-2006, 03:13 PM
Here's the deal with the Dodgers and Vero Beach. The team does have a lease until 2021, but they can buy out of it like for $17 million or something like that. I think they said it was the cost of the stadium... blah, blah, blah. The Single A Vero Beach Dodgers left just around a month ago and moved them to California. We've been running a lot of stories about them leaving and quoting the old Dodgers who still live in Vero Beach. As of right now, Holman Stadium will be empty come next minor league season.

This year will more than likely be their last year here, unless they wait until a new stadium is built and then leave. Either way, it's a sad situation here in Dodgertown.

They're looking into other teams moving here like Pittsburgh or Tampa but neither is really a draw like the Dodgers were. My overwhelming criticism though is how all the teams are leaving Florida for Arizona. Will they return? How long before the well dries up in Arizona, if at all?vegas is the next frontier...if they cant get a pro team full time, they'll settle for spring training...

MarySwiss
11-14-2006, 03:16 PM
There, fixed it for ya. :thumbsup:


Just messing with you TDOG. Everytime this thread comes up (which is quite often) it seems to turn into a Phx vs. Tucson thread. I'm really anxious for that again.


I was thinking the same thing. I personally don't give a damn if the Sox play in Tucson or Glendale.

TDog
11-14-2006, 03:18 PM
There, fixed it for ya. :thumbsup:


Just messing with you TDOG. Everytime this thread comes up (which is quite often) it seems to turn into a Phx vs. Tucson thread. I'm really anxious for that again.


I know that discussion leads nowhere, but I am much happier going to Tucson every year than would be going to Phoenix. And having gone to Florida one year, I am happier to go to Arizona than Florida. I lived in Arizona for 20 years and was never a permanent resident of either Phoenix or Tucson. A lot of people I know who don't like Tucson now don't like it because it is what Phoenix used to be.

Chicken Dinner
11-14-2006, 03:19 PM
The first Arizona city to get help from a state to attract a team for spring training was Sun City, who stole the Padres from Yuma, a move that was criticized by the state's first woman governor. Now the state is on its third woman governor, and she too is a critic of the concept. Frankly I'm amazed that Arizona has been able to draw as many teams from Florida as it has. I never thought the Dodgers would be talking about leaving Vero Beach.

There is nothing wrong with Tucson as a spring training venue baseball-wise. This century, the two teams that train at TEP have won the World Series. In fact, if your team has strong pitching, it's best not to play much, if at all, against teams in your own division. And I would hate to see the Sox move to the state of Maricopa (a couple of years ago it was going to be Tempe) because Tucson is the best city in the state.

Are you referring to the Royals? And the Padres play in Peoria. And the "women Governor" hasn't done **** about drawing teams to AZ. Maybe Jerry and Kenny (who live in the state of Maricopa) might think otherwise. :o:

MarySwiss
11-14-2006, 03:23 PM
I know that discussion leads nowhere, but I am much happier going to Tucson every year than would be going to Phoenix. And having gone to Florida one year, I am happier to go to Arizona than Florida. I lived in Arizona for 20 years and was never a permanent resident of either Phoenix or Tucson. A lot of people I know who don't like Tucson now don't like it because it is what Phoenix used to be.
I'm just wondering why these discussions always seem to be started by someone who prefers Tucson to Phoenix. That may be just my impression--I don't care enough to go back and research--but it sure does seem that way.

MarySwiss
11-14-2006, 03:25 PM
Are you referring to the Royals? And the Padres play in Peoria. And the "women Governor" hasn't done **** about drawing teams to AZ. Maybe Jerry and Kenny (who live in the state of Maricopa) might think otherwise. :o:
I think he was referring to Janet's preference--according to the article--that cities in Arizona not try to lure teams from other cities in Arizona.

TDog
11-14-2006, 04:08 PM
Are you referring to the Royals? And the Padres play in Peoria. And the "women Governor" hasn't done **** about drawing teams to AZ. Maybe Jerry and Kenny (who live in the state of Maricopa) might think otherwise. :o:

The Brewers used to play in Sun City. I confused Peoria with Sun City because both were on my drive home from Phoenix in the 1980s. Gov. Rose Mofford, a former softball player from Globe, came to Yuma, and after touring a new state prison complex said she would do everything to keep the Cactus league intact and prevent them from moving to Florida. The incentive established by the state was used to help lure the Padres from Yuma, where they could train less than a three-hour drive from most of their fans. Gov. Mofford lamented that the first use of the incentive was to take a team from an outling city and relocate it to the valley. I think Gov. Napolitano echoing her concerns.

A wink at Arizona politics was misunderstood here. The mention of woman governors was not meant to be sexist. The irony is that Rose Mofford succeeded, as secretary of state, succeeded a man who was impeached, and only elected because a perennial extremist candidate and a woman won the two party primaries. Enough people didn't want a woman governor that they hurriedly got enough petition signatures to get another man on the ballot, who split the vote and put the extremist into office. Gov. Mofford was succeeded by a man who was convicted of a felony and replaced by a woman who was then elected to a full term and succeeded by Gov. Napolitano, who I knew as the attorney general. She was recently elected o a second term. All of the women, I'm sure, did everything they could to expand and enhance the Cactus League, which has more teams than it did when Rose Mofford was thrust into office.

amace020
11-14-2006, 07:52 PM
From the story I read in the Vero Beach Newspaper, the Dodgers' buyout is only going to cost 14 million, not 17 million.

So-- the Dodgers are out of there.

I think what is going to happen is that the Cleveland Indians Avondale deal will be killed, with the Indians headed back down to Tucson, which is right back where they started from. Maybe the Rockies move into TEP with the D-Backs, and the Indians move back into Hi Corbett.

All in time for 2009 Spring Training.

AZChiSoxFan
11-14-2006, 07:55 PM
A wink at Arizona politics was misunderstood here. The mention of woman governors was not meant to be sexist. The irony is that Rose Mofford succeeded, as secretary of state, succeeded a man who was impeached, and only elected because a perennial extremist candidate and a woman won the two party primaries. Enough people didn't want a woman governor that they hurriedly got enough petition signatures to get another man on the ballot, who split the vote and put the extremist into office. Gov. Mofford was succeeded by a man who was convicted of a felony and replaced by a woman who was then elected to a full term and succeeded by Gov. Napolitano, who I knew as the attorney general. She was recently elected o a second term. All of the women, I'm sure, did everything they could to expand and enhance the Cactus League, which has more teams than it did when Rose Mofford was thrust into office.

Sorry TDOG but the part I bolded is simply not accurate. NOTE TO MODS: Trying hard here to avoid political statements but also trying to set some facts straight. In the summer prior to the primaries Bill Schultz was the man who was presumed to be the favorite on the Democratic side. However, right before the primary, he announced that he wasn't going to run and backed out. Then, Carolyn Warner won the Dem nomination for Gov. Evan Meacham of course won a crowded primary on the GOP side (BTW, I agree with your sentiments re: MEacham). Then, after the primary, Schultz decides he does want to run, so he jumps in as an independent. Schultz and Waner split the Dem vote and Meacham got elected with well less than 50% of the vote.

The part I disagree with you on is the reason Schultz came in after the primary. It's not as you say "that people didn't want a woman gov." Rather, Schultz was a flake who couldn't make up his mind as to whether or not he wanted to run. He could have single handedly prevented the Meacham fiasco if he just would have stayed in the race in the first place, or not jumped back into it after the primary.

maurice
11-14-2006, 09:40 PM
Tucson v. Phx is a dead horse at WSI. It seems to come down to subjective judgments re. the characteristics one values in a community.

I'm just wondering why these discussions always seem to be started by someone who prefers Tucson to Phoenix. That may be just my impression--I don't care enough to go back and research--but it sure does seem that way.

:?:
See post #1 of this thread:
Personally, I'd rather have them in the Phoenix metro area vs. downstate Arizona.

TDog
11-15-2006, 12:02 AM
Sorry TDOG but the part I bolded is simply not accurate. NOTE TO MODS: Trying hard here to avoid political statements but also trying to set some facts straight. In the summer prior to the primaries Bill Schultz was the man who was presumed to be the favorite on the Democratic side. However, right before the primary, he announced that he wasn't going to run and backed out. Then, Carolyn Warner won the Dem nomination for Gov. Evan Meacham of course won a crowded primary on the GOP side (BTW, I agree with your sentiments re: MEacham). Then, after the primary, Schultz decides he does want to run, so he jumps in as an independent. Schultz and Waner split the Dem vote and Meacham got elected with well less than 50% of the vote.

The part I disagree with you on is the reason Schultz came in after the primary. It's not as you say "that people didn't want a woman gov." Rather, Schultz was a flake who couldn't make up his mind as to whether or not he wanted to run. He could have single handedly prevented the Meacham fiasco if he just would have stayed in the race in the first place, or not jumped back into it after the primary.

I don't want to get into a political discussion either, but I was very close to that election, and I stand by that assessment, at least as it applies to a good many of the people who worked for the third-party candidacy that set up the Meacham fiasco.

WizardsofOzzie
11-15-2006, 12:13 AM
I should have used teal to indicate sarcasm.
as well as this :tealtutor: :smile:

Viva Medias B's
11-15-2006, 12:43 AM
I would prefer that the Sox stay in Tucson. If they leave for Maricopa County, I will still spend my March vacation and tourist dollars in Pima County.

ondafarm
11-15-2006, 01:00 AM
What makes the most sense to me is that the White Sox play close enough to six or seven teams that they can split squad and get to two different of them frequently. The only problem I have with Tuscon is that half of the Sox games do seem to be against the Rockies of the D'backs. Now, of two teams I'd like to face a lot these guys aren't bad (not in our division, not even our league, not natural rivals) but I'd like to see the Sox playing more games against other teams. When I was a kid in the Valley of the Sun, it was possible to get from Tucson to Phoenix within two hours, provided you slowed while passing Florence and the prisons there. ((Arizonan insiders joke)) But now, I believe the Sox feel that the transit time prohibits quite so rapid exchange.


TEP is by all accounts beautiful. If the Sox would consider moving it is only to get into the bigger pool of opponents with easy access.

Viva Medias B's
11-15-2006, 08:23 AM
Here is the Arizona Daily Star article (http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/156117).

If the Sox want to leave Tucson before their lease expires in 2013, they have two choices:

Find a team to replace them at the Kino Sports Complex
Break their lease and pay Pima County $28MI would rather see $28M spent on player personnel to get us back into the World Series than to see us stolen from Tucson by Maricopa County. And there are a number of public officials in Pima County who are very upset over this. Not to drag politics into this and Roadhouse the thread, but this is one issue that only exacerbates the bitter rivalry between Tucson/Pima/UA and Phoenix/Maricopa/ASU.

AZChiSoxFan
11-15-2006, 10:58 AM
Here is the Arizona Daily Star article (http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/156117).

If the Sox want to leave Tucson before their lease expires in 2013, they have two choices:

Find a team to replace them at the Kino Sports Complex
Break their lease and pay Pima County $28MI would rather see $28M spent on player personnel to get us back into the World Series than to see us stolen from Tucson by Maricopa County. And there are a number of public officials in Pima County who are very upset over this. Not to drag politics into this and Roadhouse the thread, but this is one issue that only exacerbates the bitter rivalry between Tucson/Pima/UA and Phoenix/Maricopa/ASU.


First of all, there's no way on Earth that the Sox would pay the $28 M. That would most likely be paid by Glendale or private interests from Gelndale.

Secondly, I hate to stir up the pot but the "rivalry" between the two areas is sort of like the Michigan - Mich St "rivalry" in football. Only Mich St thinks that's a rivalry. Tucson has always had an inferiority complex about Phoenix. People from Tucson are always trying to tell everyone why they are so much better than Phoenix. People in Phoenix generally care so little about Tucson that they won't even waste any time with such a discussion.

Here's to the Sox moving to Glendale. :gulp:

MarySwiss
11-15-2006, 11:07 AM
Here's the latest from today's Arizona Republic.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/1115springtraining1115.html

maurice
11-15-2006, 03:56 PM
Is anybody posting in these threads actually from Tucson? The threads seem to be Phx-area folks & Chicago folks who prefer Phx v. Chicago folks who prefer Tucson.

The people I know who live in Tucson never mention Phx, unless U of AZ is playing AZ St.

Steelrod
11-15-2006, 04:33 PM
Is anybody posting in these threads actually from Tucson? The threads seem to be Phx-area folks & Chicago folks who prefer Phx v. Chicago folks who prefer Tucson.

The people I know who live in Tucson never mention Phx, unless U of AZ is playing AZ St.
Could it maybe be because up until last year we were a second class citizen at TEP. I go every spring and prior to this last year, the gift shop has been 70-75% Diamondback stuff. It took a world series win to get on a par. Can't really blame them as the Diamondbacks ARE Arizona's team.

C-Dawg
11-15-2006, 04:42 PM
When I was a kid in the Valley of the Sun, it was possible to get from Tucson to Phoenix within two hours,

On my two visits to ST, I was back and forth between PHX and Tucson countless times, always within the same day (motel in Tucson). Never saw any bad traffic. I equated it to going to Milwaukee, only faster. It didn't seem to be a big deal at all. Maybe I'm missing something.

MarySwiss
11-15-2006, 04:53 PM
On my two visits to ST, I was back and forth between PHX and Tucson countless times, always within the same day (motel in Tucson). Never saw any bad traffic. I equated it to going to Milwaukee, only faster. It didn't seem to be a big deal at all. Maybe I'm missing something.
You're not missing a thing, C-Dawg; it's not a big deal. From my driveway, I can drive to TEP in about 1:30, which bothers me not a bit. Of course, the time it takes does depend somewhat on what time of day it is and where exactly you are going. For example, Tucson to Chandler or Tempe is gonna be faster than Tucson to Glendale or Goodyear.

michned
11-15-2006, 07:20 PM
Is anybody posting in these threads actually from Tucson? The threads seem to be Phx-area folks & Chicago folks who prefer Phx v. Chicago folks who prefer Tucson.


I have lived here almost 21 years and I can tell you among the locals that follow what is going on with their government, people are pissed - not at the White Sox but because 1), another city in our state is actually allowed to come in and essentially rape of us of economic inflow that building the new park was supposed to create, 2) our state government actually allowed an Authority to be created with powers to actually do this, and 3) our local leaders in Pima County, who went political on us and completely dropped the ball on this stadium, by building it on available county land next to the county hospital and juvie jail, instead of downtown (for those who know Tucson it was supposed to go right off Congress, just west of the freeway), which would have encouraged all kinds of associated development like restaurants and clubs and hotels, thereby revitalizing downtown Tucson, which, as anyone who has seen it can attest to, needs revitalizing badly.

The Tucson area just hit one million residents this week, but we have small time, small thinking backwater politicians that got us into this mess. Now we are about to have a white elephant stadium out in the middle of nowhere on the south side.

Whether the Sox train here or in Glendale, I'll still see them four or five times every March so that part doesn't matter to me, but I really see the eventual end of Spring Training in Tucson if the Sox (or Glendale) buy out their Tucson lease.

DeuceUnit
11-15-2006, 08:14 PM
The agreement is official now. Sox and Dodgers will be sharing a facility in Glendale.

TDog
11-15-2006, 08:23 PM
Could it maybe be because up until last year we were a second class citizen at TEP. I go every spring and prior to this last year, the gift shop has been 70-75% Diamondback stuff. It took a world series win to get on a par. Can't really blame them as the Diamondbacks ARE Arizona's team.


Maybe Glendale wouldn't be as bad, but in Tempe, which is just an extension of eastern Phoenix, the Sox would be a distant second to the Cubs. It would be worse than in Chicago because in addition to the Cubs-fan-transplants to the area, inspired by the Mesa spring training site, you have non-Chicago people who believe the Cubs are Chicago's fashionable team. At least in Chicago, the White Sox have been able to bust some of that myth.

I believe the White Sox would be second-class citizens wherever they train in Arizona, except maybe some awful place like Yuma.

Viva Medias B's
11-15-2006, 09:56 PM
Could it maybe be because up until last year we were a second class citizen at TEP. I go every spring and prior to this last year, the gift shop has been 70-75% Diamondback stuff. It took a world series win to get on a par. Can't really blame them as the Diamondbacks ARE Arizona's team.

So we'll move to Glendale where we will be a second class citizen to the Dodgers and the gift shop there will be 70-75% Dodger stuff?

Viva Medias B's
11-15-2006, 10:15 PM
1), another city in our state is actually allowed to come in and essentially rape of us of economic inflow that building the new park was supposed to create, 2) our state government actually allowed an Authority to be created with powers to actually do this, and 3) our local leaders in Pima County, who went political on us and completely dropped the ball on this stadium, by building it on available county land next to the county hospital and juvie jail, instead of downtown (for those who know Tucson it was supposed to go right off Congress, just west of the freeway), which would have encouraged all kinds of associated development like restaurants and clubs and hotels, thereby revitalizing downtown Tucson, which, as anyone who has seen it can attest to, needs revitalizing badly.

No. 1 is the point that really angers me. It's as if the folks in Maricopa, who already have a lot of spring training and professional sports teams, haven't satisfied their neverending greed so they have to set up a system by which they can pillage Tucson of their spring training teams with relish.

michned
11-15-2006, 11:19 PM
No. 1 is the point that really angers me. It's as if the folks in Maricopa, who already have a lot of spring training and professional sports teams, haven't satisfied their neverending greed so they have to set up a system by which they can pillage Tucson of their spring training teams with relish.


That's the way it's always been in this state. Pima County is the only county in Arizona that pays more in taxes than the amount of funding that is returned to it. You can see it every day. There are two lane roads in Tucson that should have been six lane roads fifteen years ago!

Tucson is becoming Casa Grande with a university and an Air Force base. And to think that 30 years ago it was on a par growth-wise with all the other sun-belt cities.

ewokpelts
11-16-2006, 01:33 AM
So we'll move to Glendale where we will be a second class citizen to the Dodgers and the gift shop there will be 70-75% Dodger stuff?
dodgers have NO history in arizona.....all thier ST history is in dodgertown
and i dont hear about too many Angelenos moving to the desert.

C-Dawg
11-16-2006, 08:07 AM
No. 1 is the point that really angers me. It's as if the folks in Maricopa, who already have a lot of spring training and professional sports teams, haven't satisfied their neverending greed so they have to set up a system by which they can pillage Tucson of their spring training teams with relish.

That gets me irritated too, now that I see it put that way. I didn't know the skullduggery involving the ballpark in Tucson.

Tucson is becoming Casa Grande with a university and an Air Force base.

LOL !! I stayed in Casa Grande a couple times; its not pretty!

Viva Medias B's
11-16-2006, 08:40 AM
That's the way it's always been in this state.

Here is today's Daily Star article (http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/156261) on the deal that includes comments by Roland Hemond. He says the White Sox will find a replacement team for the Kino Sports Complex but could not name it. Roland also said that the motivation for moving to Glendale is to draw more fans. However, Pima County officials insist they will hold the White Sox accountable for the deal they signed that brought them to Tucson from Sarasota.

Meanwhile, I have a question for WSI's Arizona residents. A common claim by Tucson critics is their belief that there is nothing to do there. I beg to differ. However, without turning this into a Tucson vs. Phoenix online bloodbath and sending this to the Roadhouse, please tell me what exactly is there to do in Phoenix that you cannot do in Tucson.

Hitmen77
11-16-2006, 09:21 AM
Maybe Glendale wouldn't be as bad, but in Tempe, which is just an extension of eastern Phoenix, the Sox would be a distant second to the Cubs. It would be worse than in Chicago because in addition to the Cubs-fan-transplants to the area, inspired by the Mesa spring training site, you have non-Chicago people who believe the Cubs are Chicago's fashionable team. At least in Chicago, the White Sox have been able to bust some of that myth.

I believe the White Sox would be second-class citizens wherever they train in Arizona, except maybe some awful place like Yuma.

I think the World Championship last year really gave the Sox a boost. The Sox have made some progress in busting up that myth outside of Chicago too.

Steelrod
11-16-2006, 09:46 AM
I personally welcome a move. Never liked Tucson. Another positive is better Airline service and cheaper fares to Phoenix.

MarySwiss
11-16-2006, 10:29 AM
Meanwhile, I have a question for WSI's Arizona residents. A common claim by Tucson critics is their belief that there is nothing to do there. I beg to differ. However, without turning this into a Tucson vs. Phoenix online bloodbath and sending this to the Roadhouse, please tell me what exactly is there to do in Phoenix that you cannot do in Tucson.
I'm not sure what the point of this is because I can also name things you can do in the Tucson area you can't do in the Phoenix area (Desert Museum, Old Tucson Studios), but okay.

See the D'Backs play (games that count), see the Suns play, see the Cardinals play, see the Coyotes play, watch the FBR Open (PGA), watch the Safeway Iinternational (LPGA), watch Nascar races at Phoenix International Raceway, visit the Heard Museum, Phoenix Zoo, Desert Botanical Garden, South Mountain Park. I'm not going to mention restaurants, hotels, casinos, golf courses, etc., because obviously both cities have them, although Phoenix, being larger, has more of them.

And I'm sure I'm leaving plenty of things out.

Meanwhile, here's the link to the article in today's Republic.
link (http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/1116springfolo1116.html)

INSox56
11-16-2006, 10:37 AM
The agreement is official now. Sox and Dodgers will be sharing a facility in Glendale.

The deal isn't official, they just got the OK from the city council. It's not official until the Sox find replacement or agree to pay it off (if they can even do that in the contract-which wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't).

I personally welcome a move. Never liked Tucson. Another positive is better Airline service and cheaper fares to Phoenix.

Ding Ding Ding...this will bring in much more people, I'd assume. The only reason my friends and I didn't go down there is because Tucson is such a bitch to get to and we'd be going for the weekend, that's it. We're young and just out of college, so we don't get much vacation time at all, so driving an hour and a half just to get there from the airport wasn't a viable option.

AZChiSoxFan
11-16-2006, 10:40 AM
The agreement is official now. Sox and Dodgers will be sharing a facility in Glendale.

Yes, they have agreed but the financing is not yet in place so in that sense, it's still not a done deal. Plus, there's that little matter of the Sox TEP lease.

michned
11-16-2006, 10:48 AM
See the D'Backs play (games that count), see the Suns play, see the Cardinals play, see the Coyotes play, watch the FBR Open (PGA), watch the Safeway Open (LPGA), watch Nascar races at Phoenix International Raceway, visit the Heard Museum, Phoenix Zoo, Desert Botanical Garden, South Mountain Park. I'm not going to mention restaurants, hotels, casinos, golf courses, etc., because obviously both cities have them, although Phoenix, being larger, has more of them.


What Mary said.

Simply put, Phoenix is larger so there are just more options available when looking for something to do. However, when you live and work here, and are raising a family or whatever, you don't notice those things as much in your daily routine.

The Sox are making the right business decision, and if what Roland Hemond says is true, and they find a replacement team, that suits me fine. They are within their legal rights to buy out the lease, but that creates all kinds of problems for my county, and for that I blame the local poiliticians, not the Sox.

For example, I believe the Rockies have an escape clause that allows them to leave town if there are not two other teams here (at least that's the way it used to be). So this really opens a can of worms for those of us that paid for this ballpark.

AZChiSoxFan
11-16-2006, 10:48 AM
but I really see the eventual end of Spring Training in Tucson if the Sox (or Glendale) buy out their Tucson lease.

I've always thought that the D-backs made the decision to train in Tucson as part of an effort to win over fans in that part of the state. If that's true, then it's hard for me to see them ever leaving Tucson.

michned
11-16-2006, 10:58 AM
I've always thought that the D-backs made the decision to train in Tucson as part of an effort to win over fans in that part of the state. If that's true, then it's hard for me to see them ever leaving Tucson.

You may be right. The Diamondbacks are definitely big across the whole state. But it will be tough being two hours away from all the other teams, and the other teams won't like it either. Money talks.

champagne030
11-16-2006, 11:10 AM
I have lived here almost 21 years and I can tell you among the locals that follow what is going on with their government, people are pissed - not at the White Sox but because 1), another city in our state is actually allowed to come in and essentially rape of us of economic inflow that building the new park was supposed to create

It's happening all over the country. There's a pretty big TIF debate going on in Illinois. One town over from me used TIF funds to entice Jewel to come to town only to see my town a few years later give them an even sweeter deal and now they have relocated.

C-Dawg
11-16-2006, 11:38 AM
The only reason my friends and I didn't go down there is because Tucson is such a bitch to get to and we'd be going for the weekend, that's it. We're young and just out of college, so we don't get much vacation time at all, so driving an hour and a half just to get there from the airport wasn't a viable option.

Lightweights! :rolleyes:

maurice
11-16-2006, 12:30 PM
FWIW, I never had trouble getting cheap, direct flights between Chicago and Tucson. Tucson airport is awesome.

Could it maybe be because up until last year we were a second class citizen at TEP. I go every spring and prior to this last year, the gift shop has been 70-75% Diamondback stuff. It took a world series win to get on a par. Can't really blame them as the Diamondbacks ARE Arizona's team.
:D:
Couple of years ago, I was at a Sox / D'backs game. That day, the D'backs technically were the "home" team. I overheard a woman in D'backs gear complain that there were sooo many Sox fans at the game, so I pointed out that the Sox share the facility. She looked positively befuddled.

MarySwiss
11-16-2006, 05:19 PM
FWIW, I never had trouble getting cheap, direct flights between Chicago and Tucson. Tucson airport is awesome.


:D:
Couple of years ago, I was at a Sox / D'backs game. That day, the D'backs technically were the "home" team. I overheard a woman in D'backs gear complain that there were sooo many Sox fans at the game, so I pointed out that the Sox share the facility. She looked positively befuddled.

Wow! "Befuddled" doesn't come close! I have never been to any spring training game anywhere where there were not a lot of both teams' fans. She probably doesn't get around much.

MarySwiss
11-17-2006, 10:01 AM
According to a story in today's Republic, Pima County is trying to hang on to the Sox.

link (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1117biz-stadium1117.html)

And I had forgotten this, but the first year we lived here was also the last year the Brewers trained in Chandler. Maryvale lured the team away by building a new stadium. IIRC, the Brewers were willing to stay if Chandler would replace Compadre Stadium with a new one, but Chandler didn't bite. Also, I believe the original plan was for the Sox to share the Maryvale facility, but they wound up in Tucson.

Chicken Dinner
11-17-2006, 11:43 AM
I agree with the article. This could be the begining of the end for spring training in Tucson. All of the Pima county crying isn't going to be helpful in getting more teams to go there either.

MarySwiss
11-18-2006, 09:47 AM
Arizona Republic columnist Laurie Roberts weighs in on the topic and, IMO, makes some very good points.

linky (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1118roberts1118.html)

champagne030
11-18-2006, 10:42 AM
Arizona Republic columnist Laurie Roberts weighs in on the topic and, IMO, makes some very good points.

linky (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1118roberts1118.html)

I don't understand what the big deal is with this situation. Tucson only gets screwed if they Sox pay off the rest of the stadium vs. finding a new tenant. It's win/win for the State either way....two new teams will be coming to Arizona and that's what the STA is intended to fund. Sure, in an ideal world the Dodgers and Indians would've agreed to move to Glendale and the Sox stay in Tucson, but so what if the Sox and Dodgers are in Glendale and the Cardinals, ect. move to Tucson.

TDog
11-18-2006, 06:55 PM
I agree with the article. This could be the begining of the end for spring training in Tucson. All of the Pima county crying isn't going to be helpful in getting more teams to go there either.


Right now, Tucson is the only U.S. city that is the spring home to three MLB teams. Flagstaff in northern Arizona had the distinction of being the only city in the U.S. from which a planet was discovered until Pluto was demoted. Life goes on.

But Arizona should not aid and abet any team in taking a team from Tucson. Losing Tucson as a training site would limit the size of the Cactus League. The incentives are there because there was a fear the Cactus league could lose their remaining teams after the Indians left Tucson for Florida. There are populists in a lot of communities that couldn't see expending any money to host a team that pays players millions of dollars. Arizona should promote Tucson specifically, even expanding into Marana. It would be best for Cactus League.

If I returned to Arizona, I would probably end up in the Valley, because that's where the jobs are. But, unable to imagine any circumstances under which I would go to a Cardinals or Coyotes game, I would rather live in Tucson. Just visiting Glendale to get to the Sox training camp would much be a much bigger hassle. The Tucson airport is much more convenient. In addition to the airport itself being easier to negotiate, it is much easier to get to Tucson from the Tucson airport than it would be to get to Glendale from Sky Harbor.

The Sox wouldn't be treated like second-class citizens in Glendale, they would be much farther down the list, and would still be far behind the Diamondbacks.

michned
11-18-2006, 11:56 PM
...Arizona should promote Tucson specifically, even expanding into Marana. It would be best for Cactus League.


It almost happened a few years ago. Marana, which has been aggressively growing for about ten years now, tried to lure the Dodgers to town a few years ago and almost succeeded. The developers then got the land rezoned and are now building a master planned community on it.

Imagine a Cactus League that had 8 to 10 teams around Phoenix and another 5 or 6 around Tucson. You're right, that would seem to make the League stronger and its economic impact felt statewide.