PDA

View Full Version : More reason to be pissed!


KempersRS
07-31-2001, 12:15 AM
Lawton for Rick Reed. I know Reed is a better pitcher than Baldy, but we got ZERO for Baldwin and the Mets can get Lawton for Reed. Pitching was needed so badly by so many teams, this is a joke that we got NOTHING when so many other teams are cashing in. Unbelievable.

Procol Harum
07-31-2001, 12:18 AM
But Kemper, the Twinks would never have traded with us. Still, I understand your frustration--how come all these other clubs seem to be able to pick up good people? I have to hand it to McPhail & the Grubs as well--I think the Weathers pick-up was a real savvy move--if for no other reason than to keep him out of the hands of the pitching-starved Astros.

i ate canada
07-31-2001, 12:19 AM
Every team that has traded away veterens so far has gotten something of value. Well, every team except us.

Still, that trade doesn't make much sense for the Twins....

FarWestChicago
07-31-2001, 12:39 AM
Every team that has traded away veterens so far has gotten something of value. Well, every team except us.

That's what pissed me off about the Baldwin trade. Teams get fleeced for crappy starters at this time of year. We just gave one away for nothing.

danman31
07-31-2001, 12:56 AM
I wouldn't call Rick Reed a crappy pitcher FarWest, but I get the drift. We didn't make a good deal, at all. Tough luck for us Sox fans. Oh well, looks like we are stuck with a crappy GM for a while(hopefully not)

oldcomiskey
07-31-2001, 06:53 PM
boo hoo hoo--SHUT UP---JB aint the pitcher we need or want--hell he gave me hives when he walked there

i ate canada
07-31-2001, 06:58 PM
Why is it so hard for some people to understand this...

The idea of trading JB was sound

The execution of that idea was awful

No one is crying because JB isn't around anymore.

oldcomiskey
07-31-2001, 07:03 PM
oh please--everywhere i go on the net its the JB situation and we lost out because JB is so great--OH PLEASE. Ill admit its not as rampant here but damn!!!! other places will eat you alive

FarWestChicago
07-31-2001, 07:15 PM
oh please--everywhere i go on the net its the JB situation and we lost out because JB is so great--OH PLEASE. Ill admit its not as rampant here but damn!!!! other places will eat you alive

A. Please read Ate's message again.

B. Don't blame us for what you read elsewhere.

C. JB should have been traded. We should have gotten something in return.

Tragg
07-31-2001, 07:46 PM
Precisely correct, ATE.

I also note that the Royals were unable to unload their no-hit SS while Clayton, sadly, remains on our roster.

oldcomiskey
08-01-2001, 04:43 PM
Im not blaming everybody--especially not here---I just guessed and obviously wrong that people were crying here too.. That dont bother me ---what does is if this is true about Royce and why we aquired him---thats is cause for concern

FarWestChicago
08-01-2001, 04:47 PM
That dont bother me ---what does is if this is true about Royce and why we aquired him---thats is cause for concern


Yeah, you can say that again.

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 04:58 PM
That dont bother me ---what does is if this is true about Royce and why we aquired him---thats is cause for concern
Oh c'mon, who gives a ***** about the reasons behind it. Just the fact that hitless is wearing a sox uni is cause for concern.

Jerry_Manuel
08-01-2001, 05:01 PM
Oh c'mon, who gives a ***** about the reasons behind it. Just the fact that hitless is wearing a sox uni is cause for concern.

Perhaps you didn't hear the story there was a report in the SunTimes this week that Williams traded for Clayton just so he could trade him before spring training but I guess nobody wanted him or his market value wasn't what Williams thought it was.

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 05:06 PM
Could we have gotten more? Maybe, but lets not forget Baldwin sucks, okay?

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 05:06 PM
Oh I heard it alright. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter how Kenny justified picking up Clayton. Its a dumb move from every single angle.
:KW
"Yessir, I'm that bad"

oldcomiskey
08-01-2001, 05:08 PM
thank you

Jerry_Manuel
08-01-2001, 05:12 PM
Oh I heard it alright.
Ok just checking.

Kilroy
08-01-2001, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by i ate canada
Why is it so hard for some people to understand this...

The idea of trading JB was sound

The execution of that idea was awful

No one is crying because JB isn't around anymore.

I think most of you are missing the point of the Baldwin deal. The idea was not to return players for the ML roster. It was to dump JB's over blown salary. What we got in return was hardly as much of a consideration as actually finding someone to take Baldwin in the first place. I think a lot of Sox fans over estimate the value of a pitcher coming off shoulder surgery who has never pitched well for an entire season and owns the highest career ERA in baseball history for a pitcher w/ 1000 innings pitched. That just says that JB has been kinda bad for quite a while.

I bet there was no other real interest in JB at all.

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 05:52 PM
I bet there was no other real interest in JB at all.
I doubt that. There are always teams somewhere around the trade deadline desperate for pitching. Even if there was nobody other than the dodgers interested, we still coulda done better. I'm thinkin along the lines of picking the right Berry.

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 07:40 PM
Kilroy you are 100 percent correct. If i were a gm, id have ZERO interest in Baldwin. Why would you????

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 07:44 PM
Why would you????
Well, in the Dodger's case, because he is light years ahead of Terry Adams. Also, some guy named Kevin Brown is out with an elbow injury.

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 07:45 PM
You seriously think Baldwin is going to help LA???

Tragg
08-01-2001, 07:51 PM
7 straight quality starts, that is why they have interest in baldwin.

BTW, the dodgers gave the pirates a top AAA prospect for terry mulholland.

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 07:52 PM
id much rather have mulholland

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 07:54 PM
Absolutely. He won't singlehandedly win the division, but he will help. I'm not sure of L.A.'s rotation, but I'm pretty sure their 4 and 5 starters are junk, and Baldwin isn't junk. He's already had his bad half. Besides, the Dodger's got him for a steal. I doubt any of the prospects the sox got for him will EVER make the majors. Oh yeah, why the hell would we want Majewski back? We'd already traded him, and IIRC, he had an era over 5(!).

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 07:57 PM
baldwin isnt junk? DO you watch baseball games? The guy is AWFUL, with a history of injuries.

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 08:02 PM
Like Tragg said, he's had 7 straight solid starts, and his most recent start was an absolute gem. Long term, yes, he's junk. Remember, he's a free agent after this season. The dodgers are going to get one quality half out of him to make a run at the playoffs, then, if they're smart, they won't try to sign him for next year.

Jerry_Manuel
08-01-2001, 08:04 PM
The guy is AWFUL

Nice to see you back BMR!

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 08:06 PM
7 quality starts? YIPPEE!!! Id prefer to look at his entire history, and his stuff. He SUCKS.

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 08:22 PM
His history is that of a 1 half pitcher. The second is presumeably going to be his better half this year. There is nothing wrong with aquiring him for next to nothing, taking advantage of that good second half, and then letting him go. Baldwin does not "SUCK". Anybody who watched him battle in Seattle last year would know that.

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 08:25 PM
yeah that one average day in seattle makes me forget his high career era, and lack of talent.

Jjav829
08-01-2001, 08:25 PM
He made one good start in Seattle. Was that game that clutch to guys that it keeps getting brought up? It seems to me that he went out there when we were down 2-0 in the series and he had nothing to lose. One good postseason start does no qualify you as a good pitcher. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 08:34 PM
True, but he has come through in other situations. When you consider the fact that J.B. has relatively weak "stuff", he has done pretty well. I still say the Dodgers come out winners in this deal. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jjav829
08-01-2001, 08:36 PM
O they no doubt came out winners. They got a guy who will atleast fill the a void in their rotation. Baldwin will help them if nothing else to save them from burning their bullpen.

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 08:49 PM
The dodgers got JB for free, so of course they come out winners. I believe the original point was, you cant expect to get much in return for a pitcher like him...

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 08:52 PM
You'd think that, but I look at how the cubs have been getting away with highway robbery lately, and I wonder, why not us?
:KW
"ooh ooh, I know!"

Bmr31
08-01-2001, 08:54 PM
Because guys like reed are worth a lot more than JB.

sox_fan_4life
08-01-2001, 08:57 PM
Don't worry too much. Chances are good that williams will re-sign him during the offseason. It would kepp his track record intact.

Jjav829
08-01-2001, 08:58 PM
Im sure KW would love to re-sign JB. Why sign a good pitcher when you can sign a bad one? Why have steak when you can have a hamburger? But, I don't think Reinsdorf will allow him to.

IA_soxfan
08-01-2001, 09:10 PM
:KW
"No, I have somebody even better in mind...."
:jaime
"He's talking about me of course"

Kilroy
08-01-2001, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by IA_soxfan
True, but he has come through in other situations. When you consider the fact that J.B. has relatively weak "stuff", he has done pretty well. I still say the Dodgers come out winners in this deal. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

JB does not have weak stuff. When he's "on" his fastball could hit 95, and his curveball could break from 12 to 6. A "yakker" as Dave Otto would call it (why I quoted Dave Otto is beyond me at this point, but don't hold it against me). Add in his change, and he's got good to great "stuff". Problem is that he doens't consistently throw strikes. He pitched behind in the count most of the time and then they'd sit on his fastball. And more times than not, he was not "on". He would have days where he couldn't get the curve over at all, and he'd just stop throwing it. And he was the king of the big inning. Sooooo many times, he'd come out and mow 'em down for 3 innings, and then give up 6 in the 4th. Or do that in the first, and be unhittable until the 7th. Maddening.

And who keeps saying 7 straight quality starts?
That's wrong. 4 starts ago, he lost to Min 12-2 giving up 8 ER. Also, he pitched in Boston with a big lead. And one last point about the last 7 starts; 5 of the 7 starts came against Milwaukee, Baltimore 2x, KC, and Cinci. Not exactly the most difficult lineups to face.